Bus lane red lights.

[Big Dave]

If you use a bus lane that has a 'B' traffic light - do you go when it illuminates - even if the other lights are still red?

Bo Tany Rd eg

[jim.cox]

If you use a bus lane that has a 'B' traffic light - do you go when it illuminates - even if the other lights are still red?

Bo Tany Rd eg

B is for Bikes - so go - you'll get squashed by the bus if you dont

[boomer]

yeah, i wheelie through the fookahs

[Hiflyer]

Well the buses get angry whe I push in at the front then hold them up.






So no

[Big Dave]

yeah, i wheelie through the fookahs

Whilst simultaneously smoking up the back wheel or you are ghey.

[The Stranger]

If you use a bus lane that has a 'B' traffic light - do you go when it illuminates - even if the other lights are still red?


Yes, if there are no cops around as I understand it is ONLY for busses.

[boomer]

Whilst simultaneously smoking up the back wheel or you are ghey.


Im getting frugal in my old age.. i dont waste shit.. other than noobs !

[PirateJafa]

Yes, if there are no cops around as I understand it is ONLY for busses.

No, it is not solely for buses. The green "B" light is for all users of the bus lane.

[The Stranger]

No, it is not solely for buses. The green "B" light is for all users of the bus lane.

You got a reference for that please?

It did come up at some stage with a cop and he advised it was bus only. It was questioned that a motorcycle at the head of the queue would then hold a bus up and he confirmed this was the case. So a reference could be handy if you have one please.

[PirateJafa]

You got a reference for that please?

It did come up at some stage with a cop and he advised it was bus only. It was questioned that a motorcycle at the head of the queue would then hold a bus up and he confirmed this was the case. So a reference could be handy if you have one please.
Reference A for it was a cop I chatted to, and reference B was a KBer (I think it was Ixion?) who was quoting verbatim from some LTNZish site.

Other than that, you will have to do your own homework.

[boomer]

Reference A for it was a cop I chatted to, and reference B was a KBer (I think it was Ixion?) who was quoting verbatim from some LTNZish site.

Other than that, you will have to do your own homework.

so.. in a sentence.. NO you don't !

[The Stranger]

Reference A for it was a cop I chatted to, and reference B was a KBer (I think it was Ixion?) who was quoting verbatim from some LTNZish site.

Other than that, you will have to do your own homework.

So to summarise, in typical KB fashion you are prepared to make a statement but not back it up.

[p.dath]

Reference A for it was a cop I chatted to, and reference B was a KBer (I think it was Ixion?) who was quoting verbatim from some LTNZish site.

Other than that, you will have to do your own homework.

The bus lane regulations (aka, weather you can be in them or not for a start) vary from city to city, and are not controlled by the LTSA per-see.

The LTSA does regulate the actual lights though - but you may find that the city you are in does not permit you to be in the bus lane if it is marked in that way.

[Big Dave]

Advice is worth what you pay for it.

[imdying]

It's a lane, you're on a bike, you can use it (hell, we even make our own lanes at times). It's a light, for that lane, it's green, you go. I don't know what happens in Welly and Auckland, but the police here have better things to do than chase people in bus lanes/splitting etc.

[The Stranger]

Advice is worth what you pay for it.

Thanks for the advice Big Dave.

[bogan]

So to summarise, in typical KB fashion you are prepared to make a statement but not back it up.

Do you have a reference to back up you statement? :Pokey:

[Big Dave]

Thanks for the advice Big Dave.

And a warm welcome to the intarnet.

Where would you look? Is the code online?

[Edbear]

Advice is worth what you pay for it.

Especially on KB... :sunny:

You know, I tend to look things up myself if not sure... :shutup:

[The Stranger]

Do you have a reference to back up you statement? :Pokey:

Can you read?
I noted it was as i "understand" i.e. I gave an opinion, not a statement, I then set out why in a following post.

[boomer]

And a warm welcome to the intarnet.

Where would you look? Is the code online?


you want flied lice you plick..??!

[Ixion]

No, it is not solely for buses. The green "B" light is for all users of the bus lane.

green "B" or white "B". There are both. A green light is a green light, traffic in the B -us lane may proceed. A white light is specific to buses only they may prcoeed. (There are also , in theory white "T" lights for trams!) .

And no I can't be arsed going finding the legislation

[Big Dave]

green "B" or white "B". There are both. A green light is a green light, traffic in the B -us lane may proceed. A white light is specific to buses only they may prcoeed. (There are also , in theory white "T" lights for trams!) .

And no I can't be arsed going finding the legislation

Thank you. Taken as read.

(But I liked Boomer's answer best.)

[PirateJafa]

so.. in a sentence.. NO you don't !

No, you do, just don't stop afterward you pussy.


So to summarise, in typical KB fashion you are prepared to make a statement but not back it up.

I'm not your fucking mother.

[bogan]

Can you read?
I noted it was as i "understand" i.e. I gave an opinion, not a statement, I then set out why in a following post.

I can skim read :D, though it appears the effictiveness is somewhat questionable :Oops:

[Big Dave]

I'm not your fucking mother.

You just ride like her. :-P

[PirateJafa]

You just ride like her. :-P
That's what she said. :Pokey:

[Jantar]

The bus lane regulations (aka, weather you can be in them or not for a start) vary from city to city, and are not controlled by the LTSA per-see.

The LTSA does regulate the actual lights though - but you may find that the city you are in does not permit you to be in the bus lane if it is marked in that way.

Regulations or bylaws cannot overide legislation. And Legislation states that motorcycles can use bus lanes unless specifically prohitied by signs saying that. A traffic light on a bus lane applies to all vehicles legally allowed to use that lane, and that includes motorcycles.

If a city decides that motorcycles are not permitted to use a bus lane then the legidlation allows that, but the city must erect signs saying "Bus Lane Motorcycles Prohibited". Its simple enough that even most city councils can understand it.

[boomer]

No, you do, just don't stop afterward you pussy.



I'm not your fucking mother.

i only stop for blondes.

[Big Dave]

i only stop for blondes.

I've seen you. 'Merino' normal folks calls them.

[Swoop]

If a city decides that motorcycles are not permitted to use a bus lane then the legidlation allows that, but the city must erect signs saying "Bus Lane Motorcycles Prohibited". Its simple enough that even most city councils can understand it.

Queue debate on "Specifically Excluded" signage...

[Tink]

BUTTTTT

Recently maybe possible could have been the herald said maybe bikes can jump in the bus lanes... and the police agreed.

But heh like I said possibly... read it quite a while back... evidence is the law.:shutup:

[Big Dave]

Queue debate on "Specifically Excluded" signage...


I reckon it's cue. I think both uses are valid - queue as in line up, but my Oxford says " signal for action : any conversational lull was my cue for asking a question.'

[The Stranger]

I'm not your fucking mother.

Well stop behaving like an old woman and I won't treat you like one.

[Swoop]

I reckon it's cue. I think both uses are valid - queue as in line up, but my Oxford says " signal for action : any conversational lull was my cue for asking a question.'
You are probably right Dave. Being KB, there will be a queue of posts if the discussion starts...

[PrincessBandit]

Advice is worth what you pay for it.

Yep, especially if it's in the form of a fine.


i only stop for blondes.

So you're saying you don't "go" for blondes?


BUTTTTT

Recently maybe possible could have been the herald said maybe bikes can jump in the bus lanes... and the police agreed.


I have heard that, from time to time, the Herald doesn't always print things accurately...

[Big Dave]

Yep, especially if it's in the form of a fine.



Gots me them platitudes by the cliche load.

[PirateJafa]

Well stop behaving like an old woman and I won't treat you like one.

I'd never make a good old woman; I can't cook to save my life.

Being a dick on the internet seems to be my forte.

[Tink]

Yep, especially if it's in the form of a fine.



So you're saying you don't "go" for blondes?



I have heard that, from time to time, the Herald doesn't always print things accurately...

Nor does blardy geordies lol... !!!

[Big Dave]

I'd never make a good old woman; I can't cook to save my life.

Being a dick on the internet seems to be my forte.


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[The Stranger]

Queue debate on "Specifically Excluded" signage...

That is now clarified in the road code.

[ManDownUnder]

No, it is not solely for buses. The green "B" light is for all users of the bus lane.

Wrong - and what I write was personally confirmed by the then Minister of Transport Safety as this was the very anomaly I wanted to clarify.

The bus lane falls under the jurisdiction of the local council, so... in Auckland motorcycles are allowed to use it.

Intersections fall under the jurisdiction of Transit NZ who have said that motorbikes can not use bus lanes - so the bus lane section of road ***IN THE INTERSECTION*** and the controls (i.e. the "B") are not for motorcycles. Long story short - you can ride to the front of a bus lane and stop, have 3 or 4 buses behind you and when the "B" comes on... you have to ignore it by law and hope you don't get run down by 10 tonnes of Mercedes finest.

I rode up and sat at the top of Chinaman's hill (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=williamson+Ave,+Auckland,+New+Zealand&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.978077,113.818359&ie=UTF8&ll=-36.864292,174.737077&spn=0.012429,0.027788&z=16&layer=c&cbll=-36.864271,174.736959&panoid=VN_UXrOzPrzfEJwVbbcUxQ&cbp=12,97.08,,0,-5.22)and held up four buses years ago just to make the point. The ultimate irony is that I held up 3 or 4 buses, containing a total of ... 100? people, maybe more?

When the Green "B" light came on, I waited as I had to do. Then when the green for go light came on (general traffic) I went, and being on the bike I scooted through the intersection first and was away no sweat at all. Right at that point the bus lane merges with the left lane so the cars proceeded faster than the buses... effectively locking them out of the intersection and they quite possibly had to wait yet ANOTHER cycle of lights.

I expressed my concerns to the the Min of Transport Safety about the possibility of me obeying the law resulting in my being run down by a bus, and I was told not to worry about that because it's illegal so it wouldn't happen (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=750062&#post750062).

Thank God the laws of the land are superior to the laws of physics huh? I might get run down by accident otherwise.

All said and done - it's a bloody STUPID situation, but one that will only be remedied by either:
1) Intersections coming under the control of the council
2) Bikes being able to use all transit lanes
3) Bikes being locked out of all bus and transit lanes.

I'm picking #3 is the most likely so in the meantime we play nicely with the buses

[Big Dave]

Perfectly sensible to ignore a vacant lane that could be used without effect.
Progressive governments even encourage the use....oh yeah...I'm over that one too.
Lane split normally then.

[ffirman]

At least in Auckland motorcycles, are allowed to use the bus lanes, and that includes using the bus pre-emption signals or B phase signals.

Cheers

Fran

-------------------------------------------------

http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auckland/Transport/buses/lanes.asp

Key facts about using bus lanes:

* Bikes use bus lanes too! Buses, cycles and motorcycles are all authorised users of bus lanes, so keep an eye out for them.
* Driving, parking or stopping on the lanes is prohibited during the times they operate. If you are parked or stopped on a lane at the wrong time, you will be given a parking ticket.
* You can drive in bus priority lanes outside of their operational times
* Auckland City bus priority lanes can be used by the following vehicles only:
o buses. (A bus is defined in the Road User Rule as a passenger service vehicle that has more than nine seating positions, including the driver's seating position)
o cycles
o motorcycles, motor scooters, mopeds
o traffic enforcement and emergency vehicles.
* Cycles, motor cycles and buses are entitled to use bus lanes and therefore can take advantage of any bus pre-emption signals or B phase signals.
* Bus lanes on motorways operate differently than local road bus lanes in that motorcycles and cycles cannot use them.
* Taxis (cars or shuttles with nine seats or less) may not use the bus priority lanes.
* If you receive a $150 fine for driving illegally in a bus lane, you can pay your fine online.

[p.dath]

At least in Auckland motorcycles, are allowed to use the bus lanes, and that includes using the bus pre-emption signals or B phase signals.
...

This doesn't appear to be the Auckland Region Council by looking at the map. Remember Auckland is made up of (is it?) 5 separate cities that are co-located.

That being the case, the rules quoted only apply to central Auckland.

[p.dath]

This bit is interesting:

Cycles, motor cycles and buses are entitled to use bus lanes and therefore can take advantage of any bus pre-emption signals or B phase signals.

[Big Dave]

So which conflicting message has the right of weight?

[Gremlin]

Well, its safer to listen to the Council (ie, our physical safety)

... but, if Council does not have jurisdiction over the lights etc, then their "law" isn't worth the space on the website...

Wouldn't it make a great article? :yes:

[Big Dave]

Wouldn't it make a great article? :yes:

For Reader's Digest?

[Gremlin]

For Reader's Digest?
They ride motorbikes? :eek5:

[The Stranger]

Well, its safer to listen to the Council (ie, our physical safety)

... but, if Council does not have jurisdiction over the lights etc, then their "law" isn't worth the space on the website...

Wouldn't it make a great article? :yes:

I have an idea.
Why not just check for cops and if there are none around just go on the B light?

[Swoop]

That is now clarified in the road code.
Very interesting, I had not kept up with that development. What have they stated? (presumably negative for bikes)

[The Stranger]

Very interesting, I had not kept up with that development. What have they stated? (presumably negative for bikes)

I was of referring to the "debate on "Specifically Excluded" signage... " comment.
The signage can be seen here (http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-signs/main-types.html). The word ONLY makes for a specific exclusion.

[Swoop]

I was of referring to the "debate on "Specifically Excluded" signage... " comment.
The signage can be seen here (http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-signs/main-types.html). The word ONLY makes for a specific exclusion.
OK. Cheers for the clarification!

[StoneY]

I can skim read :D, though it appears the effictiveness is somewhat questionable :Oops:

Dude that answer was to inteleg...inttell....SMART for you to claim Bogan for a username-

Downgrade the responses man. or you'll ruin the good Bogan reputation we spent years creating!

:nono:

[Marmoot]

This doesn't appear to be the Auckland Region Council by looking at the map. Remember Auckland is made up of (is it?) 5 separate cities that are co-located.

That being the case, the rules quoted only apply to central Auckland.

Yet the more evidence that we really need the SuperCity and John Banks as it's SuperMayor.
I'll be voting this time.

[p.dath]

Yet the more evidence that we really need the SuperCity and John Banks as it's SuperMayor.
I'll be voting this time.

I would be strongly in favour of a single set of rules. How crazy can it be that you can cross a bridge or intersection, and suddenly where you can ride changes.

And the worst bit is the rules are so murky. It's difficult to tell which rule applies where.

[Max Preload]

For anyone that is a sad enough bastard to be interested (i.e. moi), here (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303066.html) is the relevant section of the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (SR 2004/427) (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM302188.html).


No mention of any vehicle other than a bus being able to proceed on a B signal.


That is now clarified in the road code.

The Road Code doesn't count for shit - it's a guide. The Acts and Regulations are what matters.

[p.dath]

For anyone that is a sad enough bastard to be interested (i.e. moi), here (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303066.html) is the relevant section of the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (SR 2004/427) (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM302188.html).


No mention of any vehicle other than a bus being able to proceed on a B signal.



The Road Code doesn't count for shit - it's a guide. The Acts and Regulations are what matters.

Does a council have the ability to create by-laws to permit vehicles?

[Max Preload]

Does a council have the ability to create by-laws to permit vehicles?

No. The regulations made by the NZTA (formerly LTSA) under powers granted them by the Land Transport Act 1998 are the last word. Local road controlling authorities may only, by resolution, act within those regulations.

Here is the the latest Auckland City Council - Bylaw No. 25 - Traffic (2006) (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/council/documents/bylaw/part25new.asp) as at 23 April 2009.

[Swoop]

No. The regulations made by the NZTA (formerly LTSA) under powers granted them by the Land Transport Act 1998 are the last word. Local road controlling authorities may only, by resolution, act within those regulations.
If only the police would understand this with the thumbhole stock issue...

[Swoop]

The what now?
Slightly different topic... Cops making up their own rules instead of following the parliamentary Act regulations.

[Max Preload]

Slightly different topic... Cops making up their own rules instead of following the parliamentary Act regulations.

I Googled it then deleted the post but you were too quick!

[p.dath]

No. The regulations made by the NZTA (formerly LTSA) under powers granted them by the Land Transport Act 1998 are the last word. Local road controlling authorities may only, by resolution, act within those regulations.

Here is the the latest Auckland City Council - Bylaw No. 25 - Traffic (2006) (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/council/documents/bylaw/part25new.asp) as at 23 April 2009.

I think you have pretty much addressed the question then. It's pretty black and white.

[Jantar]

No. The regulations made by the NZTA (formerly LTSA) under powers granted them by the Land Transport Act 1998 are the last word. Local road controlling authorities may only, by resolution, act within those regulations.
....

Actually legislation passed by parliament is the last word. Regulations made by NZTA are next in line, providing those regulations are made in accordance with and do not conflict with any other legislation. Next down in order of priority is council bylaws and they must act within any regulations and within any legislation.

[Max Preload]

Actually legislation passed by parliament is the last word. Regulations made by NZTA are next in line, providing those regulations are made in accordance with and do not conflict with any other legislation. Next down in order of priority is council bylaws and they must act within any regulations and within any legislation.

The Land Transport Act refers to the Road User Rule for it's definition of a special vehicle lane and the provisions of special vehicle lanes are made solely under the Road User Rule. So I guess you could say the Act has pretty much no word on this matter.

[Big Dave]

What a can of worms!

[The Stranger]

What a can of worms!

Simpler to just check no cops are around before you gap it I say.

[Jantar]

The Land Transport Act refers to the Road User Rule for it's definition of a special vehicle lane and the provisions of special vehicle lanes are made solely under the Road User Rule. So I guess you could say the Act has pretty much no word on this matter.

From Land Transport (Road User) Amendment Rule 2005 (SR 2005/239)

5 Interpretation(1) Clause 1.6 of the principal rule is amended by revoking paragraph (b) of the definition of bus lane, and substituting the following paragraph:

“(b) cycles, mopeds, and motorcycles (unless one or more are specifically excluded by the sign)”.

(2) Clause 1.6 of the principal rule is amended by adding to the definition of transit lane, the following paragraph:

“(e) mopeds”.


This provision for Bus Lanes is seperate from special vehicle lanes. Note also that this road user rule is passed by parliament, not by NZTA or LTSA.

[Big Dave]

Simpler to just check no cops are around before you gap it I say.

As it happens I was Denver + out of.

[Grahameeboy]

Yes, if there are no cops around as I understand it is ONLY for busses.

Think you will find that motorbikes and pedal bikes..who can use bus lanes in town are legal allowed to go on "B"

http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auckland/Transport/buses/lanes.asp#lanes

[Max Preload]

Think you will find that motorbikes and pedal bikes..who can use bus lanes in town are legal allowed to go on "B"

http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auckland/Transport/buses/lanes.asp#lanes

Nothing exists in legislation to say that. The ACC website is no more a defence than the Road Code i.e. none.


From Land Transport (Road User) Amendment Rule 2005 (SR 2005/239)

5 Interpretation(1) Clause 1.6 of the principal rule is amended by revoking paragraph (b) of the definition of bus lane, and substituting the following paragraph:

“(b) cycles, mopeds, and motorcycles (unless one or more are specifically excluded by the sign)”.

(2) Clause 1.6 of the principal rule is amended by adding to the definition of transit lane, the following paragraph:

“(e) mopeds”.


This provision for Bus Lanes is seperate from special vehicle lanes.

Actually...

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (SR 2004/427) (as at 01 October 2008)
Special Vehicle Lane means a lane defined by signs or markings as restricted to a specified class or classes of vehicle; and includes a bus lane, a transit lane, a cycle lane, and a light rail vehicle lane (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM302197.html)

We're talking about proceeding on signals, not the use of the lanes themselves which is quite clear here (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303066.html).


Note also that this road user rule is passed by parliament, not by NZTA or LTSA.

No. The rule is approved by the Minister for Transport, not Parliament, after the various drafts from the NZTA.

[humphrt]

Jesus H Christ.........:argh: too many stupid commities making too many contradicting policies f**king up everyone.

Life is fun eh

[jafar]

Jesus H Christ.........:argh: too many stupid commities making too many contradicting policies f**king up everyone.

Life is fun eh

The never ending saga of traffic control. Someone should volunteer to be a guinea pig in a court case & get this mess cleaned up.:whistle:

[StoneY]

Entertaining tale lads and ladies - last Friday- delayed getting to tag (orama)because of- a zealous cop and the Petone Foreshore BUS LANE!

Policeman waves me down at Te Puni st - asks me why I am riding through the 'Marked lane for busses only'

Me -'how well do you know your road code legislation?'
Cop -'I have a degree in Law mate'
Me -' so your aware motorcyclists get free navigation of all marked bus and taxi lanes?'
Cop - 'Nice try mate- ive heard a few but that almost sounded legit'
Me -' Its a fact officer- my Biker group have a huge post topic on it in our forums- the actual legislation, word for word, is posted in one of the threads and I am not spinning here mate- give me a ticket if you want- you'll look like the most ill informed law degree holder on the planet" (seriously thats what i told him)

He just called me on my Cellphone- VICTORY!
' Mr Hutchison, about the bus lanes- you were correct, you are allowed to navigate the bus lane, it is in LTSA legislation'

All the riders I see in the Q waiting in line with the cages, FFS take the bus LOL

Thank you KB- VINDICATED

[Max Preload]

Etc etc

Just be aware that where Transit is the road controlling authority it is still untested whether the supplementary sign "BUSES ONLY" constitutes a specific exclusion of motorcycles as required by the regulations.

I wouldn't use a bus lane anyway - much safer to lane split.

[Marmoot]

Great work. Now we just need to fight for the bicycle lanes.

[StoneY]

Just be aware that where Transit is the road controlling authority it is still untested whether the supplementary sign "BUSES ONLY" constitutes a specific exclusion of motorcycles as required by the regulations.

I wouldn't use a bus lane anyway - much safer to lane split.

No lane to split where I was man- single lane marked as 2 ..ill use the bus lane on the foreshore ta- Cops say its a go! :niceone:

[Max Preload]

No lane to split where I was man- single lane marked as 2

There's ALWAYS a lane to split...

[p.dath]

Entertaining tale lads and ladies - last Friday- delayed getting to tag (orama)because of- a zealous cop and the Petone Foreshore BUS LANE!
...
Thank you KB- VINDICATED

That is a funny story. You were very brave! And its great to have to confirmed in this manner.

Talk about balls on the line though.