Clutchless shifts.

[Aitch]

Why? and how?

[Two Smoker]

Why? and how?

Only on the upshifts.. Its faster and nicer on the clutch (as you dont use it hehehe) but i generally only do it when riding hard on the road or racing.

[Warr]

Shifting up, Roll the throttle back and on the gear lever

Shifting down, Blip the throttle and on the gear lever

Why, Not all the time for me. I'm a bit of the old school..or ill advised?? but I think a clutch shift is easier on the drive train.
But if you are mid corner wanting to down a gear to go for it, or control it!! no clutch is WAY quicker.
So if I want to accelerate with smoother power, no clutch. Concentration levels need to be higher, cause if you get the revs wrong it wont go through.

[bugjuice]

i often shift clutchless around town up and down more out of lazyness than anything else.. no worries. Started doing it at higher speeds and engine revs, but I'm a little paranoid about turning the gearbox to mush.

It takes a little practice to get your throttle right to ease the pressure off the gearbox (that's the secret), so don't expect it to come easy. Just do it by ear, and the foot should be able to flick thru the gears easy. Don't force it, just try on with the throttle a little, not a lot (real quick blip to shift down back of a blip to shift up), and it'll come. Some bikes can be easier than others too.

As for why, around town using the clutch every two seconds can make your hand/arm ache a little, as for faster speeds, it's more of a 'I can do it' thing, but I find using the clutch in/out a little faster for gear shifting at the mo, plus higher risk of mush in yer mesh I reckon..

[Krusti]

Read once in an advanced motorcross riding article that some of the top factory riders who don't have to worry about rebuilding gearboxes between races change up from start to first corner witrhout clutch by.....throttle held full noise...upward pressure held on gear lever...when engine hits full noise power dies off enough to click through to next gear. A little hard on gears but who cares when you have a factory mechanic and backing.

[pyrocam]

clutchless shifting scares the begezus out of me. I think the gearbox is going to lockup or cause a wheel to lock up or something.

I always thought it would be better for the engine as a whole to use the clutch, I mean, thats what its there for no? Its only in (clutch) for .8s anyway?

[vifferman]

I clutchless shift quite often, and I suspect a lot of the time when I'm 'using' the clutch that it's clutchless as well, as I don't pull the lever in very far.
I sometimes downshift without the clutch, but not usually.
Either way, if you load up the gearlever with a bit of toe pressure, then back off the throttle slightly, it will snick into gear very nicely.

[MSTRS]

I don't usually use the clutch on upshifts, but I do use it on downshifts. The clutch unloads the g/box, the same thing is achieved by backing off the throttle when accelerating.

[scumdog]

I don't usually use the clutch on upshifts, but I do use it on downshifts. The clutch unloads the g/box, the same thing is achieved by backing off the throttle when accelerating.

Same here but only after engine/g'box are warmed up.

Why do boy racers blip the throttle (sometimes double-blip) when changing UP?? WTF? I guess they think it sounds cool even if it is the wrong thing, (try it without using the clutch sometime) plus it makes for a slower run up through the gear - and they do it while caning the car away from the lights!!! :unsure: :crazy:

[MSTRS]

Why do boy racers blip the throttle (sometimes double-blip) when changing UP?? WTF? :unsure: :crazy:
Cos they are tossers? Cos they grew up with tales of Grandad in the old International with the crashbox? Cos it gets them attention?

[bugjuice]

Why do boy racers blip the throttle (sometimes double-blip) when changing UP?? WTF? I guess they think it sounds cool even if it is the wrong thing, (try it without using the clutch sometime) plus it makes for a slower run up through the gear - and they do it while caning the car away from the lights!!! :unsure: :crazy:
Some of the older cars without computer management and were fully maxed out sometimes had to. I used to know someone in the UK with a Capri running a V8 that put out something stupid like 400hp without NOS or turbos etc. The oil and water pump were heavily mod'd too, but they were only interested at 2,000rpm, so he had to rev it or it'd cease and die quick. If he was flooring it and changin fast all the time, he'd crash lots (and often did), so he'd have to blip the throttle all the time. I've heard of a lot of modified older cars having to do the same. I don't think it's the same for the more modern cars, so I think it's a case of 'monkey see, monkey do..'

[John]

Ever since I've being road riding I always clutchless shift, and if I'm just crusing I will give the clutch a very (re:very) small pull and slip it in, It just seems more natural to do it that way.

Is it just me or does Ghost rider double blip on downshifts on his speed triple/GSXR, sounds nice enough so he is forgiven, I cant really tell from what you see.

[scumdog]

Re. bujuices post: Use to do clutchless shifts in my 3.3 Victor and that was a while ago but still never saw a need to blip on the up-changes.

[Motu]

I doubt if there would ever be a need to blip in upshift in any car.But some of the old trucks with an aux box need to - I used to do this whole opperation clutchless....coming up on the govenor you pull the main box into neutral on the upshift,but you need to shift the aux box into low,so a blip on the throttle sees a down change in the aux,then you wait,and wait as the revs come down enough to slip the main box in the higher gear...a two handed job.I like doing this on twin stick Mirages too.

A a kid we used to go out with the drivers during school holidays when my father worked for Bonney's,over the Bombay Deviation several times a day - we used to love going in the big Inter.It had a white steering wheel and white knobs on it's two gear levers - crawling up with a truck and trailer load of sand picked up from Meremere the driver,just a little guy,would be working like crazy on the sticks - he'd hook his arm through the steering wheel and lean right over to reach the levers,his head under the dash...feet and arms working like crazy...down one gear and up another,the Inter had a 5 speed main and 4 speed aux...back when truck driver were truck drivers.

[pritch]

I did read in a "Bike" magazine article that clutchless up shifts make for a smoother ride if you have a pillion passenger. Subsequently I have tried it a few times, it works great on the open road but I have embarrassed myself in town once or twice when the change didn't quite happen according to plan.

[Drunken Monkey]

Same here but only after engine/g'box are warmed up.

Why do boy racers blip the throttle (sometimes double-blip) when changing UP?? WTF? I guess they think it sounds cool even if it is the wrong thing, (try it without using the clutch sometime) plus it makes for a slower run up through the gear - and they do it while caning the car away from the lights!!! :unsure: :crazy:

If you have a lightened flywheel, your revs drop quickly. If you're not doing a full power/fast shift, you blip the gas during your slow shift to keep the revs in the ideal range for the gear change.
Not crazy.

As for doing clutchless shifts on your bike (and any car fitted with dog gears), that's what dog gearboxes are for. Load the shifter (but don't force it), then 'blip' the throttle, the shift fork should slot the next gear into place.

Clutches are for takeoffs and grandmas... ;)

[Drunken Monkey]

I doubt if there would ever be a need to blip in upshift in any car.But some of the old trucks with an aux box need to - I used to do this whole opperation clutchless....coming up on the govenor you pull the main box into neutral on the upshift,but you need to shift the aux box into low,so a blip on the throttle sees a down change in the aux,then you wait,and wait as the revs come down enough to slip the main box in the higher gear...a two handed job.I like doing this on twin stick Mirages too.

A a kid we used to go out with the drivers during school holidays when my father worked for Bonney's,over the Bombay Deviation several times a day - we used to love going in the big Inter.It had a white steering wheel and white knobs on it's two gear levers - crawling up with a truck and trailer load of sand picked up from Meremere the driver,just a little guy,would be working like crazy on the sticks - he'd hook his arm through the steering wheel and lean right over to reach the levers,his head under the dash...feet and arms working like crazy...down one gear and up another,the Inter had a 5 speed main and 4 speed aux...back when truck driver were truck drivers.

Don't you blip in up (and down) shifts, during your 'double declutch', in old trucks becuase they either didn't have synchros, or the synchros needed 'assistance' to get close to the right range to work in? Remember having to do that in an old landy with no synchros.

[scumdog]

If you have a lightened flywheel, your revs drop quickly. If you're not doing a full power/fast shift, you blip the gas during your slow shift to keep the revs in the ideal range for the gear change.
Not crazy.

As for doing clutchless shifts on your bike (and any car fitted with dog gears), that's what dog gearboxes are for. Load the shifter (but don't force it), then 'blip' the throttle, the shift fork should slot the next gear into place.

Clutches are for takeoffs and grandmas... ;)

When has a boy racer NOT done a full power/fast shift? :lol:

And how many have lightened flywheels nowadays? (most seem to drive blaaaaaaggggggh-blaaaaaghhhh autos) or even know what a flywheel is? :spudwhat:

Nah, convinced they do it 'cos they think it sounds cool - whereas we think it sounds like they missed a gear!

[Drunken Monkey]

And how many have lightened flywheels nowadays? (most seem to drive blaaaaaaggggggh-blaaaaaghhhh autos) or even know what a flywheel is? :spudwhat:

Well if people are going to continually lump all Japanese performance car enthusiasts in the "boy racer" group, which appears to be the current trend here, then I can safely say there are 'many' cars withn lightened flywheels, and plenty of them know what lightened flywheels are.

Not everyone who drives a performance Japanese car is 17 years old, $20,000 in finance, pulls his undies up over his trouser belt line and wears his cap backwards.

[Motu]

Don't you blip in up (and down) shifts, during your 'double declutch', in old trucks becuase they either didn't have synchros, or the synchros needed 'assistance' to get close to the right range to work in? Remember having to do that in an old landy with no synchros.

Of course you have to match revs on downshifts,so a blip yes,and sorry for the rave,but if you bother to read it...it will explain the only reason you need to blip on an upshift.Without a clutch too,so double de no clutch.Truck gearboxs have ''dogs'' same as a bike.

I remember bringing in a Landrover with ''no clutch'',it had an overdrive box,and I was able to drive it by selecting 3rd,then low ratio,low in OD box...then by starting in gear I was able to upshift on the dog boxes easy.A Landrover has crash 1st and 2nd...3rd and top are syncro.

[scumdog]

Not everyone who drives a performance Japanese car is 17 years old, $20,000 in finance, pulls his undies up over his trouser belt line and wears his cap backwards.

No but unfortunatly so many of the "braaagh-blip-blip-blaaargh" brigade fit EXACTLY into that description - and most of the time their "modification" is a pod filter or woo-hoo a K&N filter.

You forgot to add: the sunnies on top of the head at 3a.m., the piss-poor attempts at facial hair, the boat sized sneakers that never get unlaced and the blue aura around their face from the cell-phone they're txting with as they drive :killingme :killingme :killingme Stereotyping? - Nahhh!

BTW Lots of those with grunty Jappas don't drive like that (well not constantly from lights-to-lights or other built-up area like the 'other' type do) and consequently normally have 'police-free' night of cruising.

[John]

No but unfortunatly so many of the "braaagh-blip-blip-blaaargh" brigade fit EXACTLY into that description - and most of the time their "modification" is a pod filter or woo-hoo a K&N filter.

You forgot to add: the sunnies on top of the head at 3a.m., the piss-poor attempts at facial hair, the boat sized sneakers that never get unlaced and the blue aura around their face from the cell-phone they're txting with as they drive :killingme :killingme :killingme Stereotyping? - Nahhh!

BTW Lots of those with grunty Jappas don't drive like that (well not constantly from lights-to-lights or other built-up area like the 'other' type do) and consequently normally have 'police-free' night of cruising.
Sorry to be abit random, but for example - pod filtering a escudo is a perfect example, ask tristanK for more details.. lmao

[TwoSeven]

I dont blip because I find it too slow (personal taste), nor do I do clutchless shifts because I find them a wasted effort for the benefit of having to rebuild the bike every now and again (again personal taste).

I do whats called a half shift going up thru the gears. Thats where you just unload the engine enough to snick the gear but not enough to have to back off the throttle too much. My bike drops 4k rpm on the upshift so I change at 14.5k to drop it onto 10k (peak power), the over run is 2k with the clutch so it bounced off 16k (redline) a little. I run a about a mil. of lever travel, so its just finger pressure to change gears.

I'm weird on throttle control as I dont link throttle and clutch together. Its all independant. For me, throttle is setting engine speed and clutch is controlling delivery to the rear wheel. As a comparison to most people that will have the throttle either shut on opening up with clutch fully engaged - i'll set it at different points and hold it. Sometimes you have to switch over to the other technique, but only for certain circumstances.

That makes downshifts for me a little interesting as i'll set the throttle where I want it then feed the clutch in and out to control delivery and feel what the engines doing. I find dabbing the clutch means I dont have to use the front brake which smoothens things out dive wise- it also means I can go down 2 and 3 gears at a time rather than each individually - but thats only personal tasts rather than anything you should or shouldnt do.

The only trade off is that removing the driving force from the rear wheel means that it will skid if you use the rear brake (or drag it too hard). So you have to remember to get the balance of rear and clutch right under heaving braking.

[Wolf]

I used to specifically practice clutchless shifting and getting the revs right for as quiet a shift as possible. It stood me in good stead on two occasions when I suddenly found I had no choice - when the clutch cable broke.

Clutchless changes are one thing, clutchless take-offs are a whole different matter.

Instructions for approaching lights: Clutchless shift down, using engine to brake as much as possible, select Neutral (this may involve hitting first and jiggling the lever up slightly), coast towards lights then use brakes to stop.

Instructions for starting at lights: Kick yourself frantically along like your motorbike is some kind of over-weight velocipede, grit your teeth, rev engine and kick into first, feed power, ignore horrific noise and sudden jarring, accelerate away and clutchless shift smoothly up through the gears - if your jangling nerves and shuddering body will let you.

Choose a route home that does not require an uphill start and repeat procedures as necessary.

[Motu]

Imagine if you had a clutch cable break on a heavy child/adult sidecar - fortunatly I was able to slam it into gear in gravel at the top of the Albany hill,then rode it to a friends in Matakana where we spent the day playing on trials bikes and bludged a lift back home.Went up and fitted a new cable next week - I wasn't game to handle Auckland traffic with that rig and no clutch!

[Ixion]

Imagine if you had a clutch cable break on a heavy child/adult sidecar -

Had that happen. Easy peasy. **IF** you are lucky enough that the clutch actuating level on the gearbox is accessable enough to clamp a Vicegrip over. Instant foot clutch, actually not so bad with a chair. That was one advantage of the early Triumphs they had a trick called slickshift, which basically threw out the clutch when you waggled the gearlever. Most folk disconnected it, but I always left mine operational., Never used it EXCEPT when the clutch cable broke. Didn't work well for moving off though.

Also rode a Beeza Bantam for about a month using a spanner clamped on the clutch pushrod adjusting nut. Foot on spanner - disengaged clutch. Off road even ! (Hey, I was broke - couldn't even afford to buy the makings for a cable)

[Wolf]

Had that happen. Easy peasy. **IF** you are lucky enough that the clutch actuating level on the gearbox is accessable enough to clamp a Vicegrip over. Instant foot clutch, actually not so bad with a chair. That was one advantage of the early Triumphs they had a trick called slickshift, which basically threw out the clutch when you waggled the gearlever. Most folk disconnected it, but I always left mine operational., Never used it EXCEPT when the clutch cable broke. Didn't work well for moving off though.

Also rode a Beeza Bantam for about a month using a spanner clamped on the clutch pushrod adjusting nut. Foot on spanner - disengaged clutch. Off road even ! (Hey, I was broke - couldn't even afford to buy the makings for a cable)
Rugged! You make my TS125 with its heavily bandaged muffler and missing side stand ("she'll be right, just prop her against a tree") look like the very pinnacle of luxury.

[Ixion]

..missing side stand .. Side stand ? Do you realise how much those things weigh. When you're limited to bantam power every ounce counts!

[scumdog]

Imagine if you had a clutch cable break on a heavy child/adult sidecar - fortunatly I was able to slam it into gear in gravel at the top of the Albany hill,then rode it to a friends in Matakana where we spent the day playing on trials bikes and bludged a lift back home.Went up and fitted a new cable next week - I wasn't game to handle Auckland traffic with that rig and no clutch!

The very reason that I HATE cable clutches, you and Wolf just emphasize it. :angry2: