Bad technique = Less bike potential?

[ckai]

Alright so I was reading up on some general riding techniques (Thanks Mister Koz ;)) and came across a bit when you get in the shit, namely when cornering (why else do you ride a bike?).

It said you have to trust you're bike a lot more and if, say, you went into a corner too fast, you ask yourself is it too fast for you or too fast for the bike?

This is a good point. My bike far exceeds my skill. I know that. But the question is does my lack of skill mean the bike now has less potential?

So if I hit a corner too fast for me I know my bike can take it faster. Does a rider need to "suck it up" and let the bike do it's thing to get out of the shit? Or the skill level of that rider means the bike won't do what it fully can?

This is, of course, forgetting about all the other variables like being a muppet mid-corner.

A learner rider lacks confidence. When you gain confidence, you know you're bike can do more. Is my lack of skill from lack of confidence or actual skills not yet developed?

Just to be clear (everything above probably isn't), I'm not a completely green learner rider. I'm just always looking to improve and fine tune my skills. I think my biggest problem at this stage is confidence in my bike. I just wanna know that if push really comes to shove, the bike will do it's thing.

Clear as mud :wacko:

[Ragingrob]

I think that the general point is that if you find yourself in a corner too fast, then rather than going oh shit and braking and looking into the bushes on the side of the road, you should clench your ass, look around the corner where you wanna go, and go for it.

I.e. Chances are that the bike/tyres are capable of making the corner if you commit to it, whereas as soon as you freak out and fixate on a target off the road you're most probably fucked.

[Mom]

No, that all made sense to me love.

You are thinking about things and that is all good. Having/learning the skills you need to ride on the road is the first thing you need to have confidence in. To know you will be able to ride your way out of trouble if you have to, is something that we all should have.

I am not talking about an emergency situation where some 4 wheeled maniac has decided to attempt to turn you into a hood ornament here, I am talking basic bike handling when the going gets a bit :gob: :shit: :eek5: for what ever reason, you have to have the confidence that you can ride through what is happening.

A moment of panic can be catastrophic. Your bike, providing it has reasonable rubber and suspension, should be able to allow you to control your way through most situations.

[carver]

talk to your local mentor

me

[FROSTY]

You have the idea. actually a wise old (er) bloke I over heard recently saying --if in doubt -LEAN more.

[James Deuce]

People think too hard. Shut up and ride yer bike.

[carverguy]

I Found a book in the library Proficient motorcycling. David L. Hough.
The first part explains the dynamics and design of the steering ,balance and weight distirbution and a good section on cornering, It helped me a lot getting back on after 20yrs break.
Before (when younger)I would just ride and go around corners.
good luck!


Alright so I was reading up on some general riding techniques (Thanks Mister Koz ;)) and came across a bit when you get in the shit, namely when cornering (why else do you ride a bike?).

It said you have to trust you're bike a lot more and if, say, you went into a corner too fast, you ask yourself is it too fast for you or too fast for the bike?

This is a good point. My bike far exceeds my skill. I know that. But the question is does my lack of skill mean the bike now has less potential?

So if I hit a corner too fast for me I know my bike can take it faster. Does a rider need to "suck it up" and let the bike do it's thing to get out of the shit? Or the skill level of that rider means the bike won't do what it fully can?

This is, of course, forgetting about all the other variables like being a muppet mid-corner.

A learner rider lacks confidence. When you gain confidence, you know you're bike can do more. Is my lack of skill from lack of confidence or actual skills not yet developed?

Just to be clear (everything above probably isn't), I'm not a completely green learner rider. I'm just always looking to improve and fine tune my skills. I think my biggest problem at this stage is confidence in my bike. I just wanna know that if push really comes to shove, the bike will do it's thing.

Clear as mud :wacko:

[CookMySock]

So if I hit a corner too fast for me I know my bike can take it faster. Does a rider need to "suck it up" and let the bike do it's thing to get out of the shit?Yes. Write it across your forehead "bar-push or die, son." This has happened to me, but I got a bad fright doing it (left the road and hit a culvert), and burned all my nine lives in one hit, so I won't do it now.

I strongly recommend you didn't make a habit of it, but if the shit level is up to your chin, you should ignore little irrelevant things like the scraping sound from the footpegs, and your boots touching on the road, and put your shoulders out, look where you want to go and steer with the bars. or die.

There are other things you shouldn't fuck up too, like making sure your body weight is well inside the centreline of the bike (the further the better in an emergency.)

But seriously, if you took my advice and went and did it intentionally, it is just a matter of time before you got dead. So don't. Best you get on the track and inch your experience up with someone rather more qualified to coach, rather than add it in frightening great gobs on the public roads.

Steve

[ckai]

Cheers you lot.

The moral of the story is because I'm at the level when I know not to do anything stupid min-corner, if I get in the shit,

- harden up
- look where I need to go
- lean harder (of course I won't be near my lean limit)
- go around the damn corner!


People think too hard. Shut up and ride yer bike.

haha don't I know it. I actually worked that out when I had a mammoth "twist-a-thon". Was thinking about entering corners and all the other junk. Then thankfully, I had a brain freeze, went blank and started to groove quite nicely thank you very much.

It's still in the back of my mind if something goes bad...but as you've all pointed out the bike will do it. Puts my mind out ease a little more.

@Carver: I'll be too slow for you to mentor mate. I do sub-100 around 35km/h corners. I'm trying to be able to do them a minimum of 120 before I give you a holla :scooter:

@ Steve: Done the trackday thing (The one organised by the Hamilton MC). It's nuts how much you learn. That was what made me realise how much you could actually lean. I'm working on doing another session like that.

[p.dath]

I remember some lessons from my first track day when I was getting training.

Always adopt the attitude you are going to make it. Because if you decide you can't, you probably wont.

You can always turn harder. Never give up. So yes, if your in a corner and it looks bad, don't give up and turn harder.

[wysper]

A learner rider lacks confidence. When you gain confidence, you know you're bike can do more. Is my lack of skill from lack of confidence or actual skills not yet developed?



Hey Ckai

That is the crux of it I reckon. Those two are pretty closely linked. Confidence and skill. I have the skills to corner hard. Not the confidence so therefore I don't corner as hard as I or my bike can.

I believe I will only gain the confidence by pushing my envelope. To do it alone is difficult and not my personality type. So I will either need to do trackdays or get mentored.

The mentor would need to be someone I trusted and felt comfortable with.

[carver]

the mentor would need to be someone i trusted and felt comfortable with.


.....me!......

[breakaway]

The way I see it, if you are going 'too fast' around a corner and only realise this mid corner, you only have ONE option, to lean it over some more and just go for it. Whats the alternative? Ride off the road into a ditch? Nah.

[Movistar]

@ Steve: Done the trackday thing (The one organised by the Hamilton MC). It's nuts how much you learn. That was what made me realise how much you could actually lean. I'm working on doing another session like that.

Did you know they have set their date for this years training day?

[2wheeldrifter]

Cheers you lot.



- harden up
- look where I need to go
- lean harder (of course I won't be near my lean limit)
- go around the damn corner!




Will it be that simple when the time comes?
I hope I have got it wrong, but if you are mid corner and you need to close up as you are running wide... you not going to gun the throttle are you or would you..... figure of speech I hope?
I would hope you ease off the throttle and the bike will drop in faster than it was at the speed you are traveling at.... Please if I am wrong please say as I would not want to misguide ckai

[ckai]

Did you know they have set their date for this years training day?

Na I didn't but, as soon as I read this I was on the site and got the form. Definitely doing this again. It's a shame the wife will be 7 months pregnant because she really wanted to do it from what I said last year. I'm sure she'll still be able to get on the bike! hahah

[The Pastor]

When in doubt power out

[The Stranger]

Bad technique = Less bike potential?

Yes, bad technique does = less bike potential.

[grbaker]

Think about it after you are out of the corner.

You are going to get better just by riding more... and screwing it up occasionally is normal. Trick is to learn what you and your ride are cabable of together.

I recommend the Masterton to Riversdale trip as a good cornering learner ride... less traffic, lots of curves (also 36 from Turanga to Rotorua & 3 Te Kuiti to New Plymouth).

After a while you will find your 250 ride limiting your desired outcome and its time for something new.

[ckai]

Yes, bad technique does = less bike potential.

And there it is. :niceone: I did think as much. Although, from what I've picked up on what everyone is saying, and knowing my own ability, I think in my case it's a confidence thing of knowing the bike can do it. I know enough about technique to know to keep things smooth through the entire corner.

For a complete green newbie, telling them to go for it because the bike would be able to handle it, is totally the wrong thing if you know they have shocking skill.


Think about it after you are out of the corner.

You are going to get better just by riding more... and screwing it up occasionally is normal. Trick is to learn what you and your ride are cabable of together.

I recommend the Masterton to Riversdale trip as a good cornering learner ride... less traffic, lots of curves (also 36 from Turanga to Rotorua & 3 Te Kuiti to New Plymouth).

After a while you will find your 250 ride limiting your desired outcome and its time for something new.

Already moved on from the 250. As I mentioned I'm a middle of the road rider. Not new enough to say I'm experienced and not experienced enough to know enough :)

Haven't done the Masterton trip but the other 2 I have and agree with you that they've got some good corners.

Too true about the thinking after the corner. I've worked that one out pretty early on.

[The Stranger]

For a complete green newbie, telling them to go for it because the bike would be able to handle it, is totally the wrong thing if you know they have shocking skill.



Well not exactly.
I wouldn't advocate "going for it" as a noob, but if you are for example midway through a corner and think you are on the limit, being a noob, you probably aren't, so yes the best option in this situation is probably to "go for it".

But that doesn't change my answer. Bad technique does = less bike potential.
Braking through the corner, counter leaning, bad lines etc can all affect what the bike can do in the corner.

[Mikkel]

One word: Causality.

No matter what an idiot you are it won't affect the potential of the bike... (bad setup will, but I doubt that has anything to do with what this discussion is about)

Just like buying a more capable bike won't turn you into a Rossi or a Stoner. Eventhough it might make you go faster around the next corner, but that's a non-issue.

[StoneY]

I never has any track days as yet- but did do a course in my teens (so long ago) but the shit learned there saved my life at least 4x in the last 25 years- once just last week on the Hill:clap:

Training- beats instinct any day, coz Physics rules the real world, not our perceptions

[ducatilover]

When in doubt power out

I agree, getting on the brakes or completely backing off the throttle through a corner may over load the front. Basically don't push harder than you are comfortable, go in a tiny bit slow and exit fast :first: Just keep it calm and not adrenaline spaz style and be smooooooth! :niceone: And enjoy yourself, or we will kill you

[CookMySock]

No matter what an idiot you are it won't affect the potential of the bike...Er, not quite. If the rider begins the turn with his weight already outside the centreline of the bike, and then gets a fright and sits up straight, he will sacrifice 50% of his cornering ability.

Steve

[ducatilover]

Er, not quite. If the rider begins the turn with his weight already outside the centreline of the bike, and then gets a fright and sits up straight, he will sacrifice 50% of his cornering ability.

Steve

And half the skin on his body :spanking:

[The Stranger]

Er, not quite. If the rider begins the turn with his weight already outside the centreline of the bike, and then gets a fright and sits up straight, he will sacrifice 50% of his cornering ability.

Steve

He did say "Causality"
Those comments were addressing the question, not the intent.
I think somehow the OP already well knew the answer to the question, but wanted assurance as to the intent of the question.

[Crisis management]

Never give up. So yes, if your in a corner and it looks bad, don't give up and turn harder.

For your amusement and as an illustration of the idea "never give up".....

A couple of weeks ago I was tottering down a back road (adventure riding, so we're talking gravelly muddy stuff) around Lake Waikaremoana and found myself sliding gracefully across a concrete bridge, the bikes front end had washed out on some loose gravel on the surface and decided to lie down.
As I was merrily following the bike along hanging on to the throttle I remember thinking "If I just ease on some more throttle the rear will break loose and I'll get some traction on the front and I should be able to ride this out", reality and a fit of laughing made me give this idea up and I let go.

However, the point is, you need to get to that mental state where you are always looking for the next thing to do, whether it's avoiding a pothole or cranking the bike over, everytime you ride, look for alternative actions you can take, it's surprising how much choice you have. Don't be the guy that says "I don't know what happened, it just crashed".

Iain

[ckai]

He did say "Causality"
Those comments were addressing the question, not the intent.
I think somehow the OP already well knew the answer to the question, but wanted assurance as to the intent of the question.

It was 50/50. But you're right, I was looking for assurance. I was seeing it from both sides so I wanted to know which side to take. I didn't really know the answer but I had a suspension.



However, the point is, you need to get to that mental state where you are always looking for the next thing to do, whether it's avoiding a pothole or cranking the bike over, everytime you ride, look for alternative actions you can take, it's surprising how much choice you have. Don't be the guy that says "I don't know what happened, it just crashed".

Iain

Totally agree. I've been told from people I ride with direct examples of this.