ABS - must/should/maybe?

[GreyAngel]

interested in opinions :)
With full test date and the greatest ever shopping week-end approaching, the list of bikes to try is actually getting shorter. Interested in what experienced riders think about ABS. The experts/reviewers lately seem to give great deal more preference to ABS-equiped bikes. At the same time on the current market the choice of 600-1000 bikes with ABS is so bleak it's not even funny. In Oz you can get SV650 with ABS at least. Also I realise that if you slam the breaks in a curve you will slide ABS or not. In my experience with cars I only felt ABS working a couple of times over the years but in the moments I really needed it ;) Budget wise I'd with easy mind pay 17k for ABS Daytona and keep it for a while, but paying 16k now and the possibility of the next one coming out with is just too much to bear.... CBR600RR - 21 k:( whatdya think?

[Swampdonkey]

My vote is ABS. Had to emergency brake the other day when a cage cut me off. Im sure i would have locked up if i was on my old bike (non ABS) . Im convinced and will never go back.

[YellowDog]

I never thought much of ABS. I always reconned I didn't need it. Like you say, ABS won't stop you sliding (but it can help avoid a slide). I mean how silly do you have to go?

Maybe 2WD, Traction control, ABS, Stability control.

For me the thrill of motorcycle riding is that you have to be in full control the bike. Every error or miss-judgement is amplified many times over. Getting it right feels great. Getting it wrong can be fatal.

Last year when I was in the market for a new bike my wife said that if I wanted a new bike it would have to have ABS. Huh, what do you know about bikes? I explained that modern bikes have excellent brakes and I have been riding long enough to get myself out of most situations I will encounter. She however said that she didn't want me to have ABS to cope with "most situations I will encounter". It was for the occasional emergency and especially in the wet (has she been reading I thought).

So to keep the missus happy, I spent some time looking at the options available to me. The other option was to simply buy some ABS transfers and ask the garage to stick them on prior to collection.

As you have already stated, you can indeed import NZ non ABS models WITH ABS from Japan or Aussie, but the bike I'd had my eye on for a while (Tiger 1050) did have an NZ ABS version, so it really did help me make up my mind (I just couldn't afford it). The ABS Bandit with all the luggage was top of the list, as I could afford it.

Anyway, now I do have ABS and have been riding with it for over a year, I must say that it is excellent. It has only kicked in a couple of times, but it has been great in the wet when someone pulls into your path. Sometimes the road is really slippery and it is very hard to control a bike at any speed. I no longer have such issues. A couple of months back I was riding down the motorway in the wet and had a guy pull into my safety gap between me and the car infront before slamming on his brakes. I was able to reduce speed very quickly and make safe turns to get around the tosser. I could not have done this in the wet without ABS and I am fairly sure that in that instance, without ABS, I would have come off.

Some of the early ABS systems were not so good however IME – If you are in the market for a new bike, get an ABS model.

[Devil]

Very happy with the ABS on my bmw. The systems are only getting better.

Go for it, you'll have no regrets. Dont let yourself get talked out of it by someone who knew this guy, who had a mate who had a bike with abs and crashed.

[paturoa]

On the way to porridge this morning I spied a bike on the foot path at an intersection with the rider standing next to it, no helmit etc, which just didn't look right (dark wet etc). So I u turned and went back. It turned out that said biker was tootling along Rata St city bound, and a cage pulled out in front of him from Rimu, for those who know the area, and he threw out the anchors, locked the brakes and promptly hit the deck, missing the cage (broke some stuff and killed the electrics?). Said cage never stopped and drove off.

Anyhoo, I didn't see it, but from the way he explained it, I'd assume that with ABS the outcome would have been be different.

So for panic stop situations - yes for ABS.

I've got ABS on the list of things for my next bike.

[MaxCannon]

I've had a couple of situations where ABS would have helped out.

Both times drivers pulled in front of me and both times I had to hit the brakes hard enough that I locked the front.
In this situation you've got to act quick and fortunately I released enough of the brake to un-lock the wheel and keep control.
Worth noting that both incidents were on wet roads and I avoided a crash by steering around the obstacle rather than stopping before I hit it.

So I'd think it's definetly worthwhile but shouldn't be looked at as something that make you invincible.
You'll still need to think ahead and treat all other road users as mindless lemmings (because for the most part they are).

As for only buying a bike with ABS - for your first big bike I'd look at something a few years old to get some experience on.
It likely won't have ABS but I'd put more value on learning how to control the extra weight and HP than an ABS system.

[YellowDog]

I've had a couple of situations where ABS would have helped out.

Both times drivers pulled in front of me and both times I had to hit the brakes hard enough that I locked the front.
In this situation you've got to act quick and fortunately I released enough of the brake to un-lock the wheel and keep control.
Worth noting that both incidents were on wet roads and I avoided a crash by steering around the obstacle rather than stopping before I hit it.

So I'd think it's definetly worthwhile but shouldn't be looked at as something that make you invincible.
You'll still need to think ahead and treat all other road users as mindless lemmings (because for the most part they are).

As for only buying a bike with ABS - for your first big bike I'd look at something a few years old to get some experience on.
It likely won't have ABS but I'd put more value on learning how to control the extra weight and HP than an ABS system.
Max, you make a really good point here. The situation that you describe is how your riding abilities have developed through your experiences. The reason I didn't initially think ABS was a good idea was because, like you, I can release a lock up situation and engineer a safe recovery (usually).

I believe that the scares you need to survive to get to that stage are at is a critical part of riding. The problem is that gaining such experiences can be highly hazzardous and many suffer injuries gaining such experience.

I have been using ABS for over a year and I must say that I have changed my riding style slightly to be more dependent upon the back brake for added control with the assurance that it won't lock up on me. When I sometimes swap bikes with a buddy, I do get the occasional shock when I manage to lock the back wheel. It is rare occurance and not a problem, but it does validate the point you make about learning to ride (warts and all) on a non-ABS bike is pretty important.

[scracha]

It is rare occurance and not a problem, but it does validate the point you make about learning to ride (warts and all) on a non-ABS bike is pretty important.
But a 748. You could stamp on the back brake on ice and it still wouldnt lock up......no...seriously....every road bike should now be fitted with ABS IMHO. There's no way 99.9% of riders would outbrake ABS in the wet when some dork pulls out in front of them.

Hmm... 5 grand extra. I'd spend it on top notch gear, advanced rider training, ACC coverplus, better suspension and superdooper sticky tyres before shelling out on ABS.

[SPman]

All the test riders reckon the ABS on the CBR1000 & 600 is brilliant - espec. in the wet.

[slimjim]

some will love it, some won't, myself won't yet as i do enjoy that snap the rear and power on, can't with abs system , but i won't knock it, good for learners that won't ever have the chances of riding old school bikes that i grew up on and their limit's , and those had fuck all brakes lol

[Crisis management]

I'm not a fan of ABS although my bike has it (luckily it has that switchy thing to turn it off) principaly because I trust my own judgement more than some electronic thingy and because a lot of the time I am riding gravel and crappy surfaces where ABS is lethal ie; refuses to slow you down.

However my main problem with your original post is that you seem to be looking for an ABS system with a bike fitted to it....I would suggest you find the bike that sets your heart on fire first and then (if ABS is so important) discount it if ABS is not an option. For me, motorcycling is about passion, not gadgetry.

Enjoy the search tho. :scooter:

[cheshirecat]

All the test riders reckon the ABS on the CBR1000 & 600 is brilliant - espec. in the wet.
Apparently in one test they chucked sand down and it still didn't lock up. If I was in the market for a new bike that would be the deciding factor. An emergency stop is just that, you can't choose the road surface or conditions.
Now if they also came with gear driven cams.

[Tone165]

I have had ABS bikes, and Im not fully convinced so far. I think that I would probably have to admit that ABS up front is worthwhile for emergency use, and that even the best riders can get braking wrong in a panic situation.

I am far less convinced of ABS value on rear. Have had a couple of not so good experiences (no crashes) with rear ABS activating when it was not appropriate, and causing more probs than solutions!

I think that BMW's allow ABS to be switched off/on...that would suit me! Switched off for a sprint over the mountain..then back on for commuting or touring.

My ABS bikes did not have that option.

[Pixie]

For me the thrill of motorcycle riding is that you have to be in full control the bike. Every error or miss-judgement is amplified many times over. .

I just love the way those broken bone-ends protrude from an open fracture.

[Pixie]

I would venture to suggest that those that don't think ABS is useful,have never braked hard enough to initiate it.

When it first came out on cars you would hear this conversation:

Drip 1:"That ABS really makes the new Falcolden brake exceptionally well."

Drip 2:"Do you brake hard enough to make it come on?"

Drip 1:"All the time"

Drip 2:"I found the vibration through the brake pedal a little disconcerting though"

Drip 1: "what vibration".


The main advantage of ABS on bikes is that,in a emergency stop situation,the rider can confidently apply all the force in his right arm to gripping the brake lever without fear that the front will lock.

Most people under-brake for fear of lock-up.

Of course most KBers don't,as they are all Rossi clones and there is always something else to blame when they fall off.

[Devil]

Oh and just FYI. On hard-packed gravel and dirt roads I leave my ABS switched on and it's been fantastic. Would definately have it off on deep gravel and slippery shit though.

Can still slide the rear end on gravel with the abs on. i.e. wheel going slower than the road, but not slow enough to stall the bike so no need to even grab the clutch.

Bit of a novelty being able to grab a handful of brake on gravel and having the bike stop just happily. Difference on the bmw is that the brakes are partially integrated, front level operates both brakes independantly depending on the traction at each wheel.

[Hitcher]

All bikes come equipped with ABS as standard.

[popelli]

My vote is ABS. Had to emergency brake the other day when a cage cut me off. Im sure i would have locked up if i was on my old bike (non ABS) . Im convinced and will never go back.


great until you ride a bike without ABS and you lock the front wheel up

[AD345]

All bikes come equipped with ABS as standard.

yes - but it's often switched off

[Devil]

great until you ride a bike without ABS and you lock the front wheel up

I guess... if you're incompetent and not considering what you're on.

[StoneY]

Last year when I was in the market for a new bike my wife said that if I wanted a new bike it would have to have ABS.

She however said that she didn't want me to have ABS to cope with "most situations I will encounter". It was for the occasional emergency and especially in the wet (has she been reading I thought).


Smart man, smart wife, nice bike, good technology explained and analyzed in a way I can understand, cheers dude :niceone:

I have not got ABS yet but maybe my next bike(s) will :niceone:

[SARGE]

great until you ride a bike without ABS and you lock the front wheel up


Spooky is a factory ABS FJ1200... thought i'd give it a go..


the ABS pump is sitting on a shelf in the basement ..


hated it from the word GO.. i dont mind a bit of rear slipping .. in a panic situation i brake with the rears FIRST (yea .. i practice) and let it bleed off the speed as it slides THEN im hard on the fronts..

the rear sliding is controllable with counter steering and weight transfer, but if you're hard on the fronts and it locks up you're fucked ... ABS or NON ABS (ABS wont completely eliminate sliding)


one of my first bikes was an 84 VMaX..ive also ridden old school HD's , Indians and Nortons.. those things didnt break in the BEST of conditions so you actually had to LEARN to RIDE your bike and not rely on a computer to do it for you ...

[Devil]

the rear sliding is controllable with counter steering and weight transfer, but if you're hard on the fronts and it locks up you're fucked ... ABS or NON ABS (ABS wont completely eliminate sliding)


Lucky ABS has progressed a bit since then eh!

[crash harry]

It's a nice-to-have gadget that wouldn't stop me fom buying a bike, but I'd hardly list it in my "must have" factors for a new bike. And pretty much none of the bikes I would even be looking at have it at the moment so it's never really been a concern. Now that the new Honda sport bikes are coming out with ABS it could be an option in the future, but for me it's not a big deal.

As a previous poster noted, don't go looking for an ABS system with a bike attached, go looking for a bike and evaluate all of it's features - including ABS etc - against the others available in your price range. For my money, a bike with really good brakes that offer good lever feel is going to be almost as good anyway, if you put in the time to learn how to do an emergancy stop and practice it every now and then.

[Mystic13]

On ABS it depends on the bike model. On the BMW F800 it's lethal. there have been three crashes as a result of it worldwide. I'v had a near miss where I shot into a round-a-bout and shot behind a Jeep Cherokee. Seconds earlier I would have been in front and under it.

BMW are unable and unwilling to fix the problem. For the first 18 months of the problem they said it couldn't even occur. They now say it occurs and is normal operation.

Hitting the brakes in the dry, in a straight line and not hard and then hitting a bump or dip in the road the size of a catseye is causing the bike to once in awhile to release all brakes for up to two car lengths while you hold the brakes on then return to full braking again.

Scares the ^&%$ shit out of you and my opinion of both BMW and the government for allowing this fault to continue are pretty low.

They have fixed the problem on the new F800R but won't go back and fix the F800S or ST. The problem occurs for me about once every 4000km's.

This fault and bike will kill a rider in my opinion.

The least BMW could do is make owners aware. I guess a dead rider won't make a claim.

[Devil]

On ABS it depends on the bike model. On the BMW F800 it's lethal. there have been three crashes as a result of it worldwide. I'v had a near miss where I shot into a round-a-bout and shot behind a Jeep Cherokee. Seconds earlier I would have been in front and under it.

BMW are unable and unwilling to fix the problem. For the first 18 months of the problem they said it couldn't even occur. They now say it occurs and is normal operation.

Hitting the brakes in the dry, in a straight line and not hard and then hitting a bump or dip in the road the size of a catseye is causing the bike to once in awhile to release all brakes for up to two car lengths while you hold the brakes on then return to full braking again.

Scares the ^&%$ shit out of you and my opinion of both BMW and the government for allowing this fault to continue are pretty low.

They have fixed the problem on the new F800R but won't go back and fix the F800S or ST. The problem occurs for me about once every 4000km's.

This fault and bike will kill a rider in my opinion.

The least BMW could do is make owners aware. I guess a dead rider won't make a claim.
I'd like to know what Experience BMW have said regarding your experience. PM if neccesary. Also could you confirm which F800 (i can only assume the s or st, but not a gs?)

[Mystic13]

S and ST. Experience have done a tremendous amount of work and in the first 6 months of my bikes life it spent 3 months at various BMW workshops. It's been stripped down to some very small parts. Experience by and large have done a great job of going the extra distance and I'm pretty happy with them. This seems to be more a BMW issue.

If you jump onto F800riders.org there is a wealth of information.

PM me if you want to talk. Cheers.

[GreyAngel]

thans, for responses everybody, many good points. Problem is apart from overpriced Honda CB600RR; the next ABS bikes in the reasonable price range are Suzukki Bandit 1250 and Triumph Sprint ST 1050. Both are quite a step from 250.... Looks like non-ABS 600-750 will have to do this year :) GSX650F?

[Devil]

Engine size is almost irrelevant. Anything sports/sport tourer shape from 600cc upwards is likely to be plenty quick. It's all in your maturity, self control and right wrist.

There's nothing wrong with going to the big bike if you've got those things sorted.