Interesting experience leads to interesting thought

[aff-man]

Ok I suppose the title is a bit vague but here goes...

I'll start with the thought first and then with the experience that brought it on.

Thought: Does track riding/racing make you more blahsay when it comes to road riding.

Experience: Coming home the other day on the bike. I ride it most days and have had it on the track once or twice. So coming along the overpass in an 80km/h zone 2 lane road that has a downward sloping bend. coming up behind a car in the right lane doing like 75 or something before the bend so give it a squirt and change lanes. There is a set of traffic lights like 300-400m away . And as I switch lane for some reason a lot of traffic has built up and there is the back of the queue and she's pretty close. So I jump on the brakes. The bike gets all out of shape. I know how to brake as hard as the bike can from track experience but the back still starts to lift. It's quite slow motion and I realise theres noway i'm gonna stop before the back of the ute. Jump off the brakes.. massive wobble, point the bike towards the small gap on the left hand side of the ute and the curb and jump back on the brakes. Ended up going passed the ute and the next car before the bike stopped.
This all happened in under 2 seconds.

Sure my time on the track and road lead me to not panic and get out of a situation I would most probably ended up in the hospital if it had been 3 years ago...

But here is the crux of my thought.

It DIDN'T rattle me.

Time was that I'd have such an experience and my heart would be in my throat i'd be sweating like your momma last night and would have to burn my undies....
And due to this I would sit and examine what went wrong how I did what I did and it generally makes me a safer rider on the road by pulling my head in.

But has tracktime where your sometimes leaning on people and having the front and rear let go all the time and such lead me to not take heed of something like this. Unfortunately i'm still youngish so havn't managed to quite get the retrospective look at things going to well and only these sorts of things keep me in check. So is it making me more blahsay about situations which should for a better lack of words.. put the fear of god back in me?

Just a thought.....

oh and disclaimer:
Before all you wankers out there jump down my throat about being more aware and stuff on the road. Unless you've ridden with me you know nothing.

[Morcs]

I know what you mean. I have incidents everyday which only as an afterthought I go ' whoa that was close'!

Keeping cool as a cucumber, using instinct and not consciously thinking at all about whats actually happening ftw!

[Maha]

A thought is the quickest thing in the world, quicker than a blink/light and even a bullet, super sonic? meh, and often (as you have pointed out) a mere thought is undertaken/put into action in an unmeasureable time (quicker than a jiffy) and you life as changed.

[Drew]

I tend to think yes. I can think of a couple recent things happening, that I barely registered, untill others have pointed it out and asked what happened.

[jellywrestler]

A thought is the quickest thing in the world, quicker than a blink/light .

absolutely incorrect, a human turd is quicker!!!
I remember once getting a bit of fright and before I could even think, blink or turn the light on I shit myself!

[imdying]

I tend to think yes. I can think of a couple recent things happening, that I barely registered, untill others have pointed it out and asked what happened.No time to worry about mere nearly falling off when you're racing huh... that next corner is a coming like it or not ! <_<

[Quasievil]

I havent ridden on the road for about 18 months, now I started on the road last week and Im scared shitless of it, so much happening cars in all directions all of them a stupid..................give me the track any day !

[YellowDog]

When I used to drive back from go-kart meetings back in the 80s after a day of tough racing, when back on the road, I'd drive like a maniac. And the worst thing about it is that the car I was driving couldn't corner like a go kart, so I would get into all kinds of trouble.

The toughest part is slowing your brain down.

Best to be a passenger for a bit.

[sugilite]

Hmm, I think it is OK to feel blase in your physical reaction to having successfully taken evasive action to a given situation. (personally, as long as the front end is generally pointing in the right direction, I'm not too phased by what the rest is doing) However, I do not feel it is OK to feel blase mentally while riding on public roads.

Not judging you here AFF, or putting words in your mouth, just me generalizing. People seem to have this mindset that track days are somehow more dangerous and daring than riding on the public roads because speed is involved, in my view, nothing could be further from the truth.
Public roads are a minefield of disasters just waiting to happen, there is no comparison between the two. The race track is a race track, public roads are public roads, never the twain shall they meet. Both require very different mindsets. Where there can be a cross over on skills between the two, in my opinion, there is no cross over on mindset. :done:

[CookMySock]

Try driving a jet boat for about four hours, then get straight into a car on a wet road. First corner and you are going backwards.. whaaaaa??? How???

Once you have 20-30 thousand hours up your sleeve, all sorts of disasters fly past and you just hop from one to the next, most solutions are just how you hold your tongue, combined with a flick of the wrist.

It doesn't work long-term. You will get caught eventually, and then you will be sore. Or dead.

Steve

[hospitalfood]

have done exactly the same thing on the road.
never been on a track so i guess it comes down to time in the saddle.

or perhaps as we get older we get dumber, to the point where we forget to freak on the close calls.

mind you, after riding straight off the road a while back ( the only option left but no damage to me or bike ) I have slowed down a bit, I consider myself lucky as in the past it has taken damage to myself or my bike to slow me down.

[sondela]

Hmm, I think it is OK to feel blase in your physical reaction to having successfully taken evasive action to a given situation.

People seem to have this mindset that track days are somehow more dangerous and daring than riding on the public roads because speed is involved, in my view, nothing could be further from the truth.


Agreed on both counts.
The track riding has improved your reaction time and agility..
Adrenalin is quite good at making one feel a little elated after a close call, nothing wrong with any of it :)

You don't have to beat yourself up aff-man, you did good, it's experience and improving your skills as a biker, and doesn't mean you will go out and ride dangerously, I'm sure you're sensible enough not to...

[MSTRS]

oh and disclaimer:
Before all you wankers out there jump down my throat about being more aware and stuff on the road. Unless you've ridden with me you know nothing.
Spoilsport...

I know what you mean. I have incidents everyday which only as an afterthought I go ' whoa that was close'!

Keeping cool as a cucumber, using instinct and not consciously thinking at all about whats actually happening ftw!

Seems to me that your 'ftw' style of riding isn't working too well. I mean, 'incidents everyday etc'? C'mon.

[aff-man]

Hmm, I think it is OK to feel blase in your physical reaction to having successfully taken evasive action to a given situation. (personally, as long as the front end is generally pointing in the right direction, I'm not too phased by what the rest is doing) However, I do not feel it is OK to feel blase mentally while riding on public roads.

Not judging you here AFF, or putting words in your mouth, just me generalizing. People seem to have this mindset that track days are somehow more dangerous and daring than riding on the public roads because speed is involved, in my view, nothing could be further from the truth.
Public roads are a minefield of disasters just waiting to happen, there is no comparison between the two. The race track is a race track, public roads are public roads, never the twain shall they meet. Both require very different mindsets. Where there can be a cross over on skills between the two, in my opinion, there is no cross over on mindset. :done:

Hahaha agreed. Track days and such are probably the safest place in the world to ride a bike. And I tend to know what i'm doing on two wheels, and have saved quite a few things that I am not sure how I did (touches wood.... ).

And I wasn't in the racing mindset as I was just basically commuting (and yes you can get into that mindset while commuting but not this time). But there were still damp patches and such so was just...you know... normal riding. And yes I can get affected by activities like watching the motogp or stunt videos or go gocarting or whatever.

It wasn't even the save itself as I have said I have done some doozies it was more the lack of effect the experience had on me whereas similar experiences both on the track and road have in some way or another affected my mindset and subconcious riding.

But this was neither. thinking back on what actually happened I was almost ute smear yet there was no effect apon me good or bad. Is it because I got used to sticky situations happening and having to deal with them and forget them as the next corner is coming?? Or is it because I have had so many saves without a major bin (touches wood again) that I cannot truely appreciate the situation I was in???

[Morcs]

Seems to me that your 'ftw' style of riding isn't working too well. I mean, 'incidents everyday etc'? C'mon.

You dont have to commute 30km across auckland at rush hour twice a day ;)

I dont have as many close calls as I used to (cut out all the ones which wouldve been my fault)

[MSTRS]

You dont have to commute 30km across auckland at rush hour twice a day ;)



And glad of it, too.
Just making the point that daily close calls is not a solid base for a long riding career. And all you can change is yourself...

[puddytat]

A lot of Folk never practice the art of hard out braking 'till theyre confronted with a dangerous situation....the only other place you can safely try it is the track, where you'll also get used to the bike movin' under you under hard braking & also get an idea of just how sticky those rubber things are...dunno why people dont take an opportunity to get out there.
Unfortuanately for me, my lack of self control meant that after a bit of racing I found that I was hitting corners way quicker than I would've previously, plus my mates are a stupid as me & I could see that at some point , sooner rather than later, the shit was going to hit something.....
So the road bikes for sale.
But I got a track bike instead.
Good skills Dude. The Track definitely helps in making you able to handle the jandle,to react "instinctively" & intuiatively when one of those moments is unfolding in front of you:niceone:

[carbonhed]

I suppose it's a case of great riding making up for some epically bad driving.

Been there and done similar in my yoof of course but these days I know that every suprise and every sudden change of plan is because I failed to see the problem developing.

[Mom]

It DIDN'T rattle me.

Consider going to have a blood test to make sure your adrenal gland is functioning properly is my advice. It is normal to get some physical reaction to situations that potentially could cause you to get hurt. Slight/enormous elevation in heart rate at the very least. I am actually serious here btw.

Having said that, you have probably travelled many kilometres round a track and got yourself in many interesting situations that most road riders wont have, with out having some good kilometres under their belt too. You have that instinctive reaction to preserve your skin when things start turning to shite. You wont be easily rattled by what would send some into a panic ridden tail spin. You know what happens to your bike under extreme situations, and you counter it, or ignore it. I would say though to get through what you described would surely have given your body a bit of a natural rush.

Yes young, yes operating on the bombproof belief that most young men seem to have (some never lose it) but human all the same.

[Drew]

A lot of Folk never practice the art of hard out braking 'till theyre confronted with a dangerous situation....the only other place you can safely try it is the track, where you'll also get used to the bike movin' under you under hard braking & also get an idea of just how sticky those rubber things are...dunno why people dont take an opportunity to get out there.


Dunno about this "practice" caper aye. Grabbing wads of front brake in controlled/self induced conditions just doesn't seem that productive to me.

Having a certain amount of grip at one place, does not mean you have the same amount someplace else. Even if the surfaces look the same.

Of course I'm not saying get a bike and learn to ride from a stand still on the road, but once the basics are solid I see little need for riding around car parks any more.

[Pedrostt500]

Alot of riders and myself included get caught out by object fixation, we have all been there and brought the Tee shirt, your track days have taght you many skills, a key one is not to get fixated by an object, ie the tailgate of the ute, it has also taught you how to make desisions in the heat of a moment, ie find the gap, many of us would have either binned into the ute or got bitten by the curb, resulting in an ambulance ride, yes your track days may let you take some risks that you would not have taken with out the exsperience, but the skills you have gained are well worth every cent spent.
When I find that I have got myself a little beyond where I am comfortable, and give myself a we scare, I consider these moments as warnings from the Black Top God, that next time he will take a sacrfice in my blood.

[sugilite]

And I wasn't in the racing mindset as I was just basically commuting.

Or is it because I have had so many saves without a major bin (touches wood again) that I cannot truely appreciate the situation I was in???

I think at the time, it was more a case of not fully being in road riding mindset that caused the technically skillfull display of riding :lol:

To me, "basically commuting" can be at times akin to war time aerial dog fights, it's the one you didn't see that gets you.
The racetrack is a lovely non variable environment (mostly). The road has many, many ugly variables to contend with. :blink:

And experiencing of a fair few saves myself, I did eventually discover there is no place quite like a hospital bed to truly make you appreciate the position your in. :mellow:



Unfortuanately for me, my lack of self control meant that after a bit of racing I found that I was hitting corners way quicker than I would've previously, plus my mates are a stupid as me & I could see that at some point , sooner rather than later, the shit was going to hit something.....
So the road bikes for sale.
But I got a track bike instead.
:

I was just the same :lol: I was a race track refugee for many years before returning to the road.

[beyond]

Hey buddy :)

You don't need to ride track to feel like that. Your are not being blase about road riding... it's just that you have probably had so many close calls, expect them all the time and instinctively know what to do when the chips are down as a result.

This has the effect of a close call being just another part of a commute or a ride. I've not done track, but have had heaps of close calls on the road (not my fault) I expect the worst, are semi prepared at all times for the worst and just seem to know the right thing to do at the right time.

Sure, I've had some incidents resulting in going down and offroad a couple of times but through it all I'm exactly like you... no adrenaline rush when having a real close call that would have had me bogging myself years ago, just a quick sigh... that was close and don't worry about it at all. It's just like it was a normal part of the ride. It doesn't mean you don't care and are not careful.

That's from a bugga that rides a 250kg (wet) musclebike and has gone past 52 years. :) I think the more you ride and the more experience you have under the belt, this will probably happen with anyone.

[Conquiztador]

Years ago I raced solo speedway. You only turn left and do it riding sideways. Somehow I have this inbuilt thing that makes me think left corners on dirt roads are to be taken sideways. My left foot comes off the footpeg and I countersteer and go sideways. Until I remember that I am on a road bike with road tyres and compared to a speedway bike she handles like sheit on the dirt. But I still try...

[StoneY]

have done exactly the same thing on the road.
never been on a track so i guess it comes down to time in the saddle.

or perhaps as we get older we get dumber, to the point where we forget to freak on the close calls.

Amen

I never been on a track yet other then mx ones as a kid
But I too have lived through the hair raising moments we bring on ourselves

Point here is road aint track- the cages do weird shit:blink:

[discotex]

Sounds fairly normal to me.

I find that time dilates a lot more for me now in a "panic" situation having done a few hundred laps around Taupo.

It's purely a matter of raising your skill level to a point that your survival reactions (e.g. mainly to panic) don't kick in to the same extent.

The danger is when you start to believe that because you're not getting the massive adrenaline hit that it's somehow "safer" than it was before.

[beyond]

The danger is when you start to believe that because you're not getting the massive adrenaline hit that it's somehow "safer" that it was before.

Exactly. The road is never "safer"

[aff-man]

Hey buddy :)

You don't need to ride track to feel like that. Your are not being blase about road riding... it's just that you have probably had so many close calls, expect them all the time and instinctively know what to do when the chips are down as a result.

This has the effect of a close call being just another part of a commute or a ride. I've not done track, but have had heaps of close calls on the road (not my fault) I expect the worst, are semi prepared at all times for the worst and just seem to know the right thing to do at the right time.

Sure, I've had some incidents resulting in going down and offroad a couple of times but through it all I'm exactly like you... no adrenaline rush when having a real close call that would have had me bogging myself years ago, just a quick sigh... that was close and don't worry about it at all. It's just like it was a normal part of the ride. It doesn't mean you don't care and are not careful.

That's from a bugga that rides a 250kg (wet) musclebike and has gone past 52 years. :) I think the more you ride and the more experience you have under the belt, this will probably happen with anyone.

Ahhh yes that makes sense I mean some of the saves are instinctual and I have no recolection of how I got myself out of that situation. But this was clear calm and collected. Even when the bike was going sideways with the rear heading skywards...

And yes I know how heavy your bike is.... boomer dropped it on me pinning me between it and a very unforgiving trailer if you recall...

[Dargor]

You should definantly buy the red one.

oh wait what were we talking about.