Bike vs Car: what are my rights?

[Drogen Omen]

so here's what happened Thursday 30 July.

Me -> traveling south bound on motorway

Levin -> turning right at the Belmont Domain across 2 lanes about 40 meters north of the Avalon lights.

Levin squeezes in to 1st lane causing the traffic to build up in the fast lane then has to wait for bus to go past him on 2nd I come down between the traffic at bout 25 - 30km's. The Levin's front right hand side suddenly pops out in front of me, no time to react as it clips my tank I ripped out his right head light as i go down.

We exchange details, I find out the Levin guy is un-insured, I call my insurance straight away and as I'm on the cellphone he takes off south bound down the motorway, as I sit there with on the side of the motorway I think to my self if this guy didn't hit me was he going to do a U-turn on the motorway???

Insurance blames him completely for the accident as he was in the wrong for forcing his way across 2 lanes of motorway traffic. even though there is no stop sign or give way sign at the crossing he still should have waited as long as it took for the traffic to break for him to cross.

$8000 worth of damage to my bike, insurance has already started repairs on it at Welly motorcycles.

I get a a call from my insurance today saying that he is not taking responsibility for causing the accident saying that it was my fault for traveling down in between the traffic.

So i have to fill out some forms and draw a diagram of how i saw things happening.

Ok so here is the question...

Is his illegal act of not giving way and pushing across 2 lanes of motorway traffic worse than my illegal act of lane splitting...???

Your thoughts and any advice would be much appreciated.

[Taz]

Just my uneducated opinion but I feel you were in the wrong here.......
Sorry.

[Leyton]

Oh thats a tricky one dude.

Legaly I see he failed to giveway from your diagram.

My understanding is lane splitting is not ilegal as long as you indicate your passing manover... but that again.. is hard. Because an indication implys a lane change.. and thats not what splitting is :P

Yet its not ilegal in the road code.. atleast that was my interpretation.

In either circumstance, he failed to give way. My thoughts anyway.

If I was Mr Police man(Sorry I ment person), in this case I would suggest a careless driving charge for you, and failing to give way for the other joker.

Leyton

[JayRacer37]

Lane splitting is 100% legal IF both lanes of traffic you are splitting is stationary and you are travelling at a 'safe' speed. If he hit you (In the tank (ie mid of bike) with his front end (r/h headlight)) then he hit you doing an illegal turn, while you were legal...if both lanes were stationary. I'm guessing the righthand one he was blocking was...howabouts the left?

[duckonin]

so here's what happened Thursday 30 July.

Me -> traveling south bound on motorway

Levin -> turning right at the Belmont Domain across 2 lanes about 40 meters north of the Avalon lights.

Levin squeezes in to 1st lane causing the traffic to build up in the fast lane then has to wait for bus to go past him on 2nd I come down between the traffic at bout 25 - 30km's. The Levin's front right hand side suddenly pops out in front of me, no time to react as it clips my tank I ripped out his right head light as i go down.

We exchange details, I find out the Levin guy is un-insured, I call my insurance straight away and as I'm on the cellphone he takes off south bound down the motorway, as I sit there with on the side of the motorway I think to my self if this guy didn't hit me was he going to do a U-turn on the motorway???

Insurance blames him completely for the accident as he was in the wrong for forcing his way across 2 lanes of motorway traffic. even though there is no stop sign or give way sign at the crossing he still should have waited as long as it took for the traffic to break for him to cross.

$8000 worth of damage to my bike, insurance has already started repairs on it at Welly motorcycles.

I get a a call from my insurance today saying that he is not taking responsibility for causing the accident saying that it was my fault for traveling down in between the traffic.

So i have to fill out some forms and draw a diagram of how i saw things happening.

Ok so here is the question...

Is his illegal act of not giving way and pushing across 2 lanes of motorway traffic worse than my illegal act of lane splitting...???

Your thoughts and any advice would be much appreciated.

Seems like sorry, we all take risks....

[p.dath]

I think he was in the wrong. I think there is at least a 50% change you were in the wrong as well (you can both be in the wrong - two wrongs don't make a right hahaha).

So I think you are probably both at fault.

[BMWST?]

was the other traffic stopped?Ie the traffic slows pretty much to acrawl there doesnt it?So the other traffic stopped tp let him through,and you were splitting so he didnt see you till the last second(if at all in a little lowish car) 50 50 call i d say...

[scracha]

Any witnesses? No1 rule after an accident is to get the name or at least rego plate of surrounding vehicles. Plenty uninsured lying wee bastards out there. If no witnesses, why admit to splitting? Evidence shows he clearly hit you.

[bogan]

from your drawing it looks like the bus was gonna mess his shit up anyway. He was obviously in the wrong, splitting is usually fine I hear, but there probly a technicality lurking in there somewhere that may get you.

[Drogen Omen]

Any witnesses? No1 rule after an accident is to get the name or at least rego plate of surrounding vehicles. Plenty uninsured lying wee bastards out there. If no witnesses, why admit to splitting? Evidence shows he clearly hit you.

Yeah called a witness today and he said from his perspective the guy in the car was at fault. So have given his details to the insurance company to contact him to get his version of events.



from your drawing it looks like the bus was gonna mess his shit up anyway. He was obviously in the wrong, splitting is usually fine I hear, but there probly a technicality lurking in there somewhere that may get you.

yeah he would have had to wait for the bus to pass before being able to make it across the other lane. and thats what the witness said also.

[StoneY]

Well, I have had a ticket for lane splitting. Cop said was illegal- fines been paid- charge was 'undertaking within lane' word for word

But this car is more in the wrong, my opinion. Careful how you explain your 'lane change' ;)

[Mully]

Yeah called a witness today and he said from his perspective the guy in the car was at fault. So have given his details to the insurance company to contact him to get his version of events.

That's excellent news.

My understanding (limted though it is) is that the onus in on him to give way to all traffic coming straight through.

Let the insurance company kick his arse.

EDIT: And that witness was in an excellent position for you.

[mattian]

You were travelling straight ahead.... he was changing lanes and hit you. Seems like an open and shut case in your favour to me. Would be interesting to see how it plays out please keep us updated. The fact that he fled the scene also implicates his guilt. I believe the law is on your side in this one.

[discotex]

If you were splitting your first lesson would be that you should expect someone to be turning across your path to get into that intersection.

The biggest piece of advice (from personal experience) I can give anyone in a cage vs bike situation is to get the police involved - you were injured (you will be bruised at a minimum) so you should report the accident to the police immediately.

They can then look at the scene, your scrape marks etc and make a call as to who is at fault. The insurance companies use this as gospel for your claim.

[MaxB]

If you were splitting your first lesson would be that you should expect someone to be turning across your path to get into that intersection.

The biggest piece of advice (from personal experience) I can give anyone in a cage vs bike situation is to get the police involved - you were injured (you will be bruised at a minimum) so you should report the accident to the police immediately.

They can then look at the scene, your scrape marks etc and make a call as to who is at fault. The insurance companies use this as gospel for your claim.

Plus it is amazing how many lying shit bags suddenly get their memory back once the police are called.

[Drogen Omen]

If you were splitting your first lesson would be that you should expect someone to be turning across your path to get into that intersection.

The biggest piece of advice (from personal experience) I can give anyone in a cage vs bike situation is to get the police involved - you were injured (you will be bruised at a minimum) so you should report the accident to the police immediately.

They can then look at the scene, your scrape marks etc and make a call as to who is at fault. The insurance companies use this as gospel for your claim.

Would have been good if the cops actually turned up.

I called them told them that I had just had a accident, the operator said they were pretty busy with a 3 car pile up further down the motorway but would try and get some one to attend.

I waited for 40 minutes until the wife arrived with the trailer but still no cops, a council worker did turn up to clear the glass and car bits off the road though, I was actually wondering if that was the "some one" the operator said she would get to attend.

Called the insurance and let them know that the cops didn't turn up, they seemed pretty sure it would be ok without a police report.

[Pedrostt500]

My limited advice is names numbers and photos, the more the better, and always check their REG and WOF details.

[StoneY]

My limited advice is names numbers and photos, the more the better, and always check their REG and WOF details.

Good point- dude make sure he was wof and reg- if not you win ipso facto - you could have been doing 100 miles an hour on your back wheel and win the case if hes out of wof or reg

fucking good point pedrostt

[James Deuce]

If no one was injured then there is no legal requirement to either involve the Police or ask them to attend.

You are probably lucky that the Police didn't attend. They apply the law to a given situation not natural justice.

[FJRider]

Fill in the forms, do the diagrams, and wait for the money.... the insurance coy have no choice but pay for your repairs. They may take him to court to get him for your costs, or at least get out of them paying his costs.

[discotex]

Would have been good if the cops actually turned up.

Shite that sucks. Bet if you just left your bike in the middle of the road and lay there moaning they'd have bothered. Funny how the Police don't really give a shit about anything unless you're in serious danger or you're breaking a "road rule".

Might be worth ringing the local station and tell them your insurance company wants an accident report..?

[Drogen Omen]

here's the damage to the car and my bike.

[AllanB]

Shit mate on the XB12 you should have just popped a wheelie and ridden over the top of that car - dirt bike style :shifty:

Insurance.

The more photos etc you supply the better your case.

[Mom]

the wife arrived with the trailer

Hope you tucked the trailer and the wife up safely in the shed when you got home.

[Grahameeboy]

here's the damage to the car and my bike.

Damage suggest he hit you rather that you went into is side

[KrazyGixxerBoy]

I'm of mixed opinion on this one....

1) when lane splitting you need to be ultra aware of everything around you(including fuckwits who turn in front of you!)

2) Seems pretty basic regardless of whether the cars were stopped to let him through, he failed to give way to traffic (you) going straight ahead.

I have been lane splitting for years and it cracked me up the other day to see a guy on a GN250 with an L-plate on, sitting in standstill traffic behind a cop car as I cruised through. Cop of course did nothing (bad luck to StoneY) and I snuck a look back and the L-plate rider had started splitting the lane too!..guess he wasn't sure if it's ok or not.

Anyway, stink one on the crash etc, but I reckon you'd be ok. one learning would be when splitting and approaching an intersection, slow right down.
Good luck mate.

[scracha]

Just make sure that you emphasise you were on the right hand side of your marked lane.

[Marmoot]

Your thoughts and any advice would be much appreciated.

Get rid of the bus in your picture. Subtle change but it may help greatly.

It is normal for the other party to not admit liability. The insurance's job is to pursue this and they're hoping your picture would help.

[Shadows]

If you were in the same lane as the car then you're probably fucked as you would have been undertaking. If you were in the buses lane you would stand a slightly better chance of winning the argument.

[MSTRS]

Well, I have had a ticket for lane splitting. Cop said was illegal- fines been paid- charge was 'undertaking within lane' word for word


That is the offence...not lanesplitting. You must be within the same lane as the vehicle you are passing, and on the right side of that vehicle. The moment you veer to the right of the lanemarking (assuming centre of two lanes of traffic) you are deemed to be undertaking the vehicle to your right.

DO...you need to make changes to that diagram. Belmont Domain is south and east of Owen St ie lower left. The other point is - how good is your spatial awareness? Distances, etc? Owen St is more like 250m from the KG Bridge lights. Might seem like nitpicking, but on such minutiae claims can be approved/declined.

[Mully]

That is the offence...not lanesplitting. You must be within the same lane as the vehicle you are passing, and on the right side of that vehicle. The moment you veer to the right of the lanemarking (assuming centre of two lanes of traffic) you are deemed to be undertaking the vehicle to your right.

:Offtopic:, but I still think the cop must have been having a bad day or there's more to the story - I regularly filter past cops, and go wherever there is space, and I've never had a problem.

Ideally, if all cars drove "as far to the left as practicable" within their lane, it wouldn't be an issue cos there'd be heaps of room for bikes to overtake within the lane. As it is, most line up with the right of the lane, so bikes have to go where there's room.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Most cops aren't actually dicks (despite what you read on KB), and as long as the cop doesn't think you're being a wally, he wont give you a ticket, or even a second look. That's my theory, and so far (touch wood) it's worked for me.

[Motig]

Just a technical point- nothing to do with whose right or wrong- but surely if the traffic in the fast lane was slowing down/ stopped it should have given you a clue that something was happening up ahead that might have warned you to be cautious ?

[gwigs]

Exactly the same thing happened to me.....thirty odd years back....
Just make sure you say you were on the right hand side of the left lane so that you were not illegally overtaking.worked for me ..insurance paid out.
Easy to get caught out...taught me a lesson..cagers dont see you in those circumstances. :no:

[Drogen Omen]

Just a technical point- nothing to do with whose right or wrong- but surely if the traffic in the fast lane was slowing down/ stopped it should have given you a clue that something was happening up ahead that might have warned you to be cautious ?

I slowed right down to about 25- 30km cause i saw the car slowly creeping in but saw that the bus was in his way so i kept going. That's what the front of his car popped out and hit my tank.

Not sure if he took his foot off the break and it lunged forward just enough to clip me.

Thanks for all your input have the forms and diagram have just arrived for me to fill out for the insurance company.

[90s]

I slowed right down to about 25- 30km cause i saw the car slowly creeping in but saw that the bus was in his way so i kept going. That's what the front of his car popped out and hit my tank.

Not sure if he took his foot off the break and it lunged forward just enough to clip me.

Thanks for all your input have the forms and diagram have just arrived for me to fill out for the insurance company.

Good luck with the claim.

Your last post makes it more clear that he was proceeding without being able to see clearly - ie. could not see past the bus. There have been convictions in the last year of cagers using the defence that "as they couldn't see" past obstructions or because of sunstrike they caused an accident, and the law was clear that in that case they should wait (for the bus to have moved in your case). So you were pretty cautious (almost enough ...)

For the other points clatification - lane splitting does not exist within the law, but overtaking within your lane and overtaking parked vehicles is legal (cars in traffic are technically parked if not moving). So its important not to be undertaking.

Cops lets us split most of the time, but sometimes they clamp down on certain riders are lane-splitting in general "because". Most cops are OK but some do not understand the law that well themselves (my neighbour was a traffic cop and did not know much of the basic road code. I was amazed. Others know every full stop paragraph of the law, not just the road code).

And yep, sometimes I do always not split past the cops. Why? I have been pulled before and they give the bike a firm look over before conceding I have not done anything wrong, WOF & Rego OK, licence OK etc before letting me go having satisfied themselves and wasted 10 mins of my time. And I have never been told that there was any issue with my riding by them - just gives them an excuse.

[Drogen Omen]

Just got this from LTSA...



Good afternoon Christian

Thank you for your email dated 18 August 2009.

The Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 covers the majority of road rules. The Rule does not specifically cover 'lane splitting', however, section 2.3 Use of Lanes advises the rules relating to using vehicle lanes, it states:

2.3 Use of Lanes

(2) A driver, when driving on a road marked in lanes, -
(a) must drive as far as practicable entirely within a lane except when complying with subclause 2.1(2) or when changing lanes; and
(b) must not move from a lane until he or she has first ascertained that the manoeuvre may be made safely.

I have provided a link to this section of the Rule below.
www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303043.html

From the diagram you have provided prior to the accident, you appear to be passing two vehicles, one to your left and one to your right. I have provided links to sections 2.7 Passing on the right and 2.8 Passing on the left, which may be of assistance.
www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303049.html
www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303050.html

Section 2.12 Motorways of the Rule advises the following in relation to u-turns:

2.12 Motorways
(4) A driver must not reverse or make a U-turn on a motorway.

I have provided a link to this section below.
www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303055.html

I hope this is of assistance to you.

Regards
______________________________________________
Senior Customer Service Representative
NZ Transport Agency
Transport Registry Centre
Private Bag 11777
Palmerston North 4442
New Zealand
www.nzta.govt.nz

Please consider the environment before printing this email

[Patrick]

Turning vehicle fails to give way to vehicle not turning = $150 for him. (If you were in the right side of the lane, not undertaking on the left side of the lane... if you follow....?).

[KingJackaL]

That is the offence...not lanesplitting. You must be within the same lane as the vehicle you are passing, and on the right side of that vehicle. The moment you veer to the right of the lanemarking (assuming centre of two lanes of traffic) you are deemed to be undertaking the vehicle to your right.

Quoted for truth (also 90s's post). If you're on a push-bike you can do this anyway (push-bikes can undertake anyone in the 'center lane' or turning right). Asking if lane splitting is legal isn't the right question - it depends how you do it ;).

[90s]

Just got this from LTSA...

Hmmm, well the devil is in the interpretation of things.

First none of this is relevant to overtaking parked traffic. From the self-same website:

Passing on the left -You can only pass on the left when:

there are two or more lanes on your side of the centre line and you are able to pass safely by using the left-hand lane
you are directed to by a police officer
the vehicle you are passing:
has stopped
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/passing.html

Also for overtaking within your lane:
You can pass at a no-passing line if:

you stay on your side of the solid yellow line

(which is the same justification for overtaking within a lane and overtaking parked traffic)

To argue the other way you are not allowed to overtake near a junction or where visibility is less than 100 meters ahead, but that will not preclude the overtaking of parked (stationary) cars towards a junction.

Basically this is all a reflection of the fact the code is written soley for cars, and bikes are at best an afterthought that do not fit in. So we ride often between the lines.

In your case the insurance companies are not proceeding on the letter of the law but who seems more to blame, and to what level. Cut it how you like but that guy should not have pulled across if he could not see clearly.

[MarkH]

Ideally, if all cars drove "as far to the left as practicable" within their lane, it wouldn't be an issue cos there'd be heaps of room for bikes to overtake within the lane. As it is, most line up with the right of the lane, so bikes have to go where there's room.

It is precisely because of this that I break the law almost every time I use the motorway. I ride where the biggest gap is for my safety rather than worry about the legal fineprint.