Cutting the road toll

[dpex]

Here we go again with the next round of 'mostly' brainless schemes for reducing the road toll....beating up on young drivers, beating up on boy-racers, always two favourites for those with jelly-fish brains.

Bikes will have to have headlights on! Woo! Now there's a novel idea. Surely, those who haven't figured that out yet deserve to be removed from the gene pool.

Reversing the ridiculous left-turn rule (another idea thought up by the jelly-fish brains) is about the only sensible change being made.

The JF brains can think in only one direction. Legislate to restrict, and punish to enforce.

For those of you who have or have had kids, you will know that getting little Billy to tidy his room is almost impossible when you say "Do it or you'll get," pick an evil to befall little Billy. Tell the kid he'll get a free pass to his favourite thing and the room will be like an operating theatre in minutes.

Seems to me the punishment regime and evermore restrictive laws don't work....and that's presuming the current road-toll can be meaningfully reduced beyond the random factor of pure bad luck...and I'm not sure that's a possibility.

The trouble with traffic enforcement is, it's all enforcement...presuming there is a cop somewhere around... But cops don't avert accidents, they simply issue tickets for behaviour which 'might' cause an accident, or turn up after the event to issue tickets to those who have crashed.

Have you ever noticed that there is no reward for being a crash-free driver?

Like at the recent court case at Huntly, where I demonstrated the radar picked up a following truck, not me, and had the dopey JP tell me she didn't understand the math or the science therefore "Guilty as charged! Hang Him!"

When I pointed out I hadn't had a speeding ticket in 30 years, did that get me any cred? Nup. "Guilty! Hang Him". That alone caused me to rethink my preparedness to be an otherwise law abiding citizen. Why bother. I'm treated no differently from a complete rogue.

Long ago, when the donkey was the favourite form of transport, the smart riders knew how to get the donkey to move forward. It's called carrot and stick. Traffic law enforcement is all stick and no carrot.

Yeah I know. I just need a hug. Mumble.

[F5 Dave]

Well the road toll is terrible, let's have more speed cameras. What? - the road toll has gone up? Obviously we need more cameras still. :blink:

When something is not working best we redouble our efforts.:blink::blink:

[Stormer]

Why not go the other way, and like INCREASE the speed limits.
120k or whatever on the open road, and concentrating on the SLOW drivers...the ones that get you so pissed off that you end up taking a risky shot just to get past the ignorant dicks.
With the "road toll" so high, and obviously nothing else working, it has to be worth a go.

[ynot slow]

Educate the drivers,not by stupid tv adds(I chanel surf during adds)which aren't viewed by the target audience.Make defensive driving more affordable so they know how to drive.

And teach the students a license is a priveledge not a god given right.

Why drop the under 20yr alcohol limit to zero,why not all people,and this coming from a DIC charged driver 10years ago.

[slofox]

Seems to me the punishment regime and evermore restrictive laws don't work....

Any behaviourist will tell you how much easier it is to train with positive reinforcement than with negative reinforcement...

[AllanB]

Easy fix


Post one of these every few 100 meters - speeding problem fixed and lower unemployment figures for young people.

[idb]

Well...I personally agree with all safety measures that don't directly affect me...hammer the yungins I say!!!

[2wheeldrifter]

Easy fix


Post one of these every few 100 meters - speeding problem fixed and lower unemployment figures for young people.


Like that idea... better still how about every 20k's you have a rest area with a nice lady like that offering you a...... cup of tea say :)

[quickbuck]

Easy fix


Post one of these every few 100 meters -

What?
A Scented Candle on an iron table???

[Boob Johnson]

Here's another novel idea...........how bout actually TEACHING people to ride/drive properly as part of the license obtaining process. The gubbermint could make more revenue out of the process as well, create employement, geez it aint rocket science!!! Prevent them from harming themselves in the first place & remove that fucking ambulance away from the bottom of that cliff :bash:


A bit wild n crazy I know, but hell, it might just work :blink:

[oldrider]

Here we go again with the next round of 'mostly' brainless schemes for reducing the road toll....beating up on young drivers, beating up on boy-racers, always two favourites for those with jelly-fish brains.

Bikes will have to have headlights on! Woo! Now there's a novel idea. Surely, those who haven't figured that out yet deserve to be removed from the gene pool.

Reversing the ridiculous left-turn rule (another idea thought up by the jelly-fish brains) is about the only sensible change being made.

The JF brains can think in only one direction. Legislate to restrict, and punish to enforce.

For those of you who have or have had kids, you will know that getting little Billy to tidy his room is almost impossible when you say "Do it or you'll get," pick an evil to befall little Billy. Tell the kid he'll get a free pass to his favourite thing and the room will be like an operating theatre in minutes.

Seems to me the punishment regime and evermore restrictive laws don't work....and that's presuming the current road-toll can be meaningfully reduced beyond the random factor of pure bad luck...and I'm not sure that's a possibility.

The trouble with traffic enforcement is, it's all enforcement...presuming there is a cop somewhere around... But cops don't avert accidents, they simply issue tickets for behaviour which 'might' cause an accident, or turn up after the event to issue tickets to those who have crashed.

Have you ever noticed that there is no reward for being a crash-free driver?

Like at the recent court case at Huntly, where I demonstrated the radar picked up a following truck, not me, and had the dopey JP tell me she didn't understand the math or the science therefore "Guilty as charged! Hang Him!"

When I pointed out I hadn't had a speeding ticket in 30 years, did that get me any cred? Nup. "Guilty! Hang Him". That alone caused me to rethink my preparedness to be an otherwise law abiding citizen. Why bother. I'm treated no differently from a complete rogue.

Long ago, when the donkey was the favourite form of transport, the smart riders knew how to get the donkey to move forward. It's called carrot and stick. Traffic law enforcement is all stick and no carrot.

Yeah I know. I just need a hug. Mumble.

I agree with you, why should all the young drivers or would be drivers who are both competent and well behaved, be punished because of the behaviour of the minority!

The test should be for driving competence, knowledge of the road rules/code and demonstrated quality of behaviour!

Age should really be of minimal consideration!

This is the reason that undesirable behaviour is increasing in the population, there is no recognition for anything else but "undesirable" behaviour!

I think the bastards are barking mad! Why do so many (otherwise) honest citizens break and disregard the road laws? :shifty:

[MarkyMark]

Well they're at it, how about they bloody let people turning left treat a red light as a stop sign already?

[MaxB]

The solutions are there all around the world plain as day. Countries with high levels of driver training, good quality roads and hard to pass driving tests have the safest roads.

E.g. Germany, Scandinavia, Britain, Switzerland plus thay all have higher speed limits than us and are much safer.

Good road systems plus properly trained drivers equal safe roads.

[SPman]

How can they come up with the right answers, when they aren't asking the right questions? Like all beauracrats, they are locked in a mindset that was left behind 40 yrs ago and are incapable of thinking beyond their narrow focused mindset.
Age should not be a requirement for getting a license - ability and mindset should be.

[chef]

im sure if they looked at accident records its not just the young ones. pointless making the age 17 for learners and making them be a learning for 1 year. there still imature at 17 as they were 15.... ban all cars all buses eather catch a train or ride a bike simple as that.....:2guns:

[MSTRS]

...

Have you ever noticed that there is no reward for being a crash-free driver?

...

Of course there is....
The satisfaction of knowing that you are better than 'those turkeys'.
That's priceless, don't you know?

Actually, there was an article in our evening paper. I can't find it online, but can scan if you wanna see it. The article states that a Central Region Roadsafe campaign is about to get underway, whereby driving behaviour at various roundabouts/intersections will be observed and 'proper' driving will see the rego noted and a $10 MTA voucher sent to the registered owner.

Interesting idea, that. Rewarding good driving. How do they know the driver IS the owner, though.

[george formby]

Our safety is dictated by economics, Grrrrrr. Compulsory 3rd party insurance would stop the young un's buying WRX's & the like. In the Uk a hot car for a young driver is 1300cc Vauxhall Nova.. On the downside for us, insurance on big bikes is astronomical if your still spotty. Soooo,on going driver / rider training would make a huge difference, advanced courses would go towards reducing insurance premiums etc. While I'm at it, you can learn to fly space shuttle's, jumbo jets, helicopters etc on a simulator. Why not have a wee test, subsidised, every 5 years to make sure your skills are up to scratch. For cars obviously. It would be a perfect way to demonstrate defensive driving. Kid's leaping into the road, black ice, drunk drivers etc all in the safety of a simulator. I bet a lot of people would get a huge wake up call if their driving & behaviour was analysed like this. I have some retired friends who are convinced they are excellent drivers despite having a close call or a nudge once a week & no awareness of the centre line, the truth is they are terrifying but as the law stands they only have to do a sight test & a questionnaire to stay on the road unless the doctor says otherwise. Harrumph.
Gummint, get real, education not legislation.

[PrincessBandit]

Here's another novel idea...........how bout actually TEACHING people to ride/drive properly as part of the license obtaining process. The gubbermint could make more revenue out of the process as well, create employement, geez it aint rocket science!!! Prevent them from harming themselves in the first place & remove that fucking ambulance away from the bottom of that cliff :bash:

A bit wild n crazy I know, but hell, it might just work :blink:

I agree with you Boob, but good ole NZ seems all about ambulances at the bottom of the cliff. The problem is that the "fences at the top" are the type of ideas the powers-that-be are coming up with, which we in turn all deride and bitch about. Catch 22. Driver and rider education is what we need, and hope that it will encourage more "personal responsibility" in those who want the privilege of being at the controls of a vehicle.


Of course there is....
The satisfaction of knowing that you are better than 'those turkeys'.
That's priceless, don't you know?

Actually, there was an article in our evening paper. I can't find it online, but can scan if you wanna see it. The article states that a Central Region Roadsafe campaign is about to get underway, whereby driving behaviour at various roundabouts/intersections will be observed and 'proper' driving will see the rego noted and a $10 MTA voucher sent to the registered owner.

Interesting idea, that. Rewarding good driving. How do they know the driver IS the owner, though.

At our VTNZ in Takanini there was a poster with numbers people could ring or text when observing good riding behaviour of motorcyclists. There were incentives for both rider and texter. Have no idea whether they had much feedback from it. Must go down and ask one day and will post the response.

[oldrider]

At our VTNZ in Takanini there was a poster with numbers people could ring or text when observing good riding behaviour of motorcyclists. There were incentives for both rider and texter. Have no idea whether they had much feedback from it. Must go down and ask one day and will post the response.

Unless the reporter is required to front and face those they accuse, that kind of thing only encourages police state informants like Hitler had during his reign. :2guns:

There has to be a consequence for the reporter or they can be vindictive and remain anonymous! Remember the school pimp? :shifty:

[Mikkel]

Funny how the government points out that making day-time lights mandatory should improve motorcycling safety and then completely fails to consider that the same would be true for all motor vehicles.

And no, I am not looking for another shit-fight about this.


The solutions are there all around the world plain as day. Countries with high levels of driver training, good quality roads and hard to pass driving tests have the safest roads.

E.g. Germany, Scandinavia, Britain, Switzerland plus thay all have higher speed limits than us and are much safer.

I agree whole heartedly. But I do have to point out that Scandinavia isn't a country... anymore, in the good old days it sort of was.

[humphrt]

numbers people could ring or text when observing good riding behaviour of motorcyclists

But we never manage to do anything right! Its amazing how many people take offence to me lane splitting(legally of course). Motorcyclists=Good riding behaviour :laugh::laugh::laugh: you must be kidding me. We are the enemy both to the general public and the gubbbbbberment

[george formby]

But we never manage to do anything right! Its amazing how many people take offence to me lane splitting(legally of course). Motorcyclists=Good riding behaviour :laugh::laugh::laugh: you must be kidding me. We are the enemy both to the general public and the gubbbbbberment

I'm screwed, bike rider & bull terrier owner. No doubt you will see me on Close Up soon. Public enemy #1. Any body know how to get a dog to ride pillion? Oooh, I'm asking for more trouble with that question.:no:

[idb]

I'm screwed, bike rider & bull terrier owner. No doubt you will see me on Close Up soon. Public enemy #1. Any body know how to get a dog to ride pillion? Oooh, I'm asking for more trouble with that question.:no:

It's good to take a packed lunch with you when you go for a ride.

[Bounce001]

Instead of spending money on road sfety campaigns, why doesn't the "powers that be" spend that money on actually fixing up the roads. Prime example - Northland roads when wet (or dry). When up there over Christmas last year, notice that when they botched road repairs, they just put an "Uneven Surface" sign up.

[george formby]

It's good to take a packed lunch with you when you go for a ride.

Good call, plenty of "No dogs" & "No motorcycle" signs around. Cheese & pickle on Sunday then. If I had a "Caution, pickle sandwich on board" sign waving off the back, would drivers keep their distance? :shit:

[MSTRS]

Good call, plenty of "No dogs" & "No motorcycle" signs around. Cheese & pickle on Sunday then. If I had a "Caution, pickle sandwich on board" sign waving off the back, would drivers keep their distance? :shit:

They might if you could somehow let them know that Pickle was what you called your Pomeranian....

[idb]

Good call, plenty of "No dogs" & "No motorcycle" signs around. Cheese & pickle on Sunday then. If I had a "Caution, pickle sandwich on board" sign waving off the back, would drivers keep their distance? :shit:

That would be a sandwich board then?

[idb]

They might if you could somehow let them know that Pickle was what you called your Pomeranian....

A Pomeranian would be easier to spread than a Bull Terrier, much more practical for sandwiches.

[dpex]

How can they come up with the right answers, when they aren't asking the right questions? Like all beauracrats, they are locked in a mindset that was left behind 40 yrs ago and are incapable of thinking beyond their narrow focused mindset.
Age should not be a requirement for getting a license - ability and mindset should be.


Good thought SpMan. Just recently CAA decided that any person could gain a licence to fly a glider, regardless of age, providing they demonstrated the necessary skill levels, and that didn't include just flying an aircraft, it includes reacting approrpiately to unforeseen circumstances.

Just latterly a 12 year-old gained her pilot's licence.

Age is not the guideline, attitude is.

This girl will have gone through an arduous training programme, probably within a small club, where everybody is watching for her slightest mistake. Moreover, she will be very aware of the fact that from anywhere above sixty feet from the ground, if she messes up she will probably get dead.

Clearly, she has taken all this on board and is now a qualified glider pilot, aged twelve. The question is, how do we get that level of committed learning into drivers of all types of vehicle.

Perhaps, in the club-scene is an answer. Perhaps a learner driver should be required to join a driving club. Perhaps that club would lay out proficiency parameters before qualifying the new member to go on the roads.

But then comes the next leg. Ergo, all the drivers who think they can drive, and mostly can, yet lack concentration because they emotionally substitute their car seat for a lounge suite. How do we deal with them?

Simple. We work out a method of punishment and REWARD!

[James Deuce]

I agree whole heartedly. But I do have to point out that Scandinavia isn't a country... anymore, in the good old days it sort of was.

Yeah, and the rest of us want to have a "little chat" about letting that raiding party stop off on the way to Constantinople to create Russia.

[dpex]

Funny how the government points out that making day-time lights mandatory should improve motorcycling safety and then completely fails to consider that the same would be true for all motor vehicles.

And no, I am not looking for another shit-fight about this.



I agree whole heartedly. But I do have to point out that Scandinavia isn't a country... anymore, in the good old days it sort of was.

Interesting comment. Just lately a whole swathe of signs have been erected throughout the Waikato, exhorting cagers to put their lights on. Mybe someone in the Ministry of Jelly Fish Brains is thinking.

[PrincessBandit]

At our VTNZ in Takanini there was a poster with numbers people could ring or text when observing good riding behaviour of motorcyclists. There were incentives for both rider and texter. Have no idea whether they had much feedback from it. Must go down and ask one day and will post the response.


Unless the reporter is required to front and face those they accuse, that kind of thing only encourages police state informants like Hitler had during his reign. :2guns:

There has to be a consequence for the reporter or they can be vindictive and remain anonymous! Remember the school pimp? :shifty:

Are you sure you read my post correctly? If so then I'm not sure how your response computes....

[Brian d marge]

ahhh

but its not about safety , or driving its all about user pays and removing as much as they can from the govn coffers, you cant call the police a SOE , like you can with the Electricity

but you can make it generate own funding ( but this is never said , of course)

If they were truly interested in safety, then we would follow the Canadians rule and train like the Germanic/Nordic Countries , and a healthy dose of Kiwi Attitude readjustment ,,,( see drinking driving )

Stephen