need mirrors for commmuting?

[Coldkiwi]

Here's a question for the more dedicated lane splitters on the site:

When forcefully filtering through the traffic (this isn't relevant for filtering through stopped traffic), are mirrors a help ie. let you see quickly before you duck into the next lane, or a hindrance ie. stop you getting through those tempting little gaps

I lost my RHS mirror two weeks ago to a loose bolt and although its a nuisance having to look over my shoulder everytime and not being able to watch cars behind me (specially when merging into the fast lane if they're coming up quickly)... I have noticed its much less daunting nipping through the gaps when the mirror isn't there to distract me. so a bit of a pro for a few cons.

anyone tried more 'progressive' filtering without mirrors and if so, was it better with or without?

[vifferman]

When forcefully filtering through the traffic (this isn't relevant for filtering through stopped traffic), are mirrors a help ie. let you see quickly before you duck into the next lane, or a hindrance ie. stop you getting through those tempting little gaps
A help - on most of the bikes I've owned, they're like cat's whiskers: help to gauge whether the bike will fit through a gap before I attempt it.
On the VFR750 they were a nuisance from the point of view that they seemed to be the same height as most car mirrors, so I broke them twice, but on my other bikes they've been good.
On my current ride, not only are they nicely positioned as 'whiskers', they also afford a very good rearward view, something that other bikes I've owned weren't good at, especially the Firestorm.

[pyrocam]

Intresting idea. but I think you would get ticketed for not having one.

My mirrors are bolted on with a vetical bolt so If I need to get one out of the way I can just pull the wing forwards or backwards (unscrewing the bolt) and that gets it out of the way. then put it back when moving in the lane.

proberly quite time consuming at a bit dangerous too. I hate rearranging my mirrors while riding

[Motoracer]

I reckon you only ever need mirrors to look out for the red and blue lights. Otherwise, it's better not to have em (the bike looks meaner that way anyway!)BTW, if you want to buy a set of mirrors let me know. I am selling my ones. They are K1 mirrors that are more beefy lookin than the little K2-K3 mirrors.

[Coldkiwi]

yeah, I hear ya about the 'feelers'. But whats surprised me is that i now find I am able to take smaller gaps (not neccessarily more dangerous) because I'm not trying to provide a visual buffer between the mirror and car/truck/mirror etc as well as the width of the bike. I know where my hands are so I don't THINK thats a problem.

yeah, the lack of a right mirror is possibly a bit dodgy legally.. but would probably be the least of my worries if I'm getting pulled over! (haven't been done for splitting since ... well, a long time and no sense in tempting fate!)

[Coldkiwi]

I reckon you only ever need mirrors to look out for the red and blue lights.

hehe, yeah, i've had the head cranked backwards a few times just to make sure I hadn't raised any suspicions with parked HP as I tootle past (not lane splitting of course).

[vifferman]

Intresting idea. but I think you would get ticketed for not having one.
Yeah. :weep:

Tested that out when they changed the rules back in 1977 or thereabouts. Took mine off, as they vibrated so much I couldn't see anything anyway, so I still had to look over my shoulder. And what the heck do you want mirrors and indicators and all that crap on a trailbike for? :spudwhat:
Even removed the battery.

Anyway, despite arguing strenuously with the bike cop about it, he gave me a ticket, and a free Road Code after pointing out the relevant regulation in there. Dang. The ticket was 16 flagons of beer worth...

[T.I.E]

wing mirrors? i recently brought a set of panniers for the cbr and have found them more dangerous than the mirrors. due to certain nicks on them from motorist mirrors.
think they are really gonna get pissed off with lane splitters if i keep it up.
they are great feelers, but due to the panniers being about 50mm wider its a pain. need little rubber extensions on the mirrors to tell me the exact width.
but most of the time i'm just bloody close as aposed to actually causing damage. but i only nic them.
and have since removed the panniers when i think i will be riding in rush hour in ak. which is almost all the time.
i do have a caution and that is watch out for other bikes ducking out when ya lane splitting at speed, and they think they are the only ones on the road.

and truckies seem to be the nicest out there. big wave to them

[Ixion]

What I reckon would be cool would be a wide curved prismatic mirror along the top of the fairing blade. Prismatic so it showed what was to the side, not just a nice picture of the rider. Never seen such a thing though, but I reckon it would be possible.,

[FROSTY]

apsolutely poasitively need em. The XJ has big car wing mirror sized mirrors and I tend to flick a glance in e regularly.

[pritch]

CRG make billet mirrors one model of which is named Lane Splitter or similar. You can fold the mirror back out of the way temporarily and then push it back without losing the original adjustment.

Nice mirrors, nice price ;-)

[jrandom]

In traffic I use my mirrors primarily to manage filtering at speed, ie, when the traffic around me is moving above 30kph or so (I like to use proper gaps in lanes whenever I can rather than encouraging cages to share my lane at the same speed), and to make sure I don't inconvenience any other motorcyclists who might be filtering behind me.

Like this morning, when I was in a bonged-out sort of mood and just ambling along with the traffic because I didn't feel much like filtering, and a blue SV thou rumbled up behind me, and I got out of the way quick-smart (and then followed him).

I don't know *how* many times I have had the same thing happen to me with the bike in front just ignoring me, forcing me to stay behind them in the traffic so as not to run the risk of a collision due to them not realising I was coming past.

[Zookey]

:2thumbsup ,Dont worry about mirrors its when ya got your toes out like the smiley fella,and ya catch one on a tanks jumbo rubber flaps.PAIN :angry2:

[Clockwork]

This is why I think mirrors are vitally important for lane splitters. I split large parts of SH2 in to Wellington and my biggest fear is either moving into "the zone" late and taking out another (faster) bike splitting behind me, or conversely being the faster bike and getting cut up by the bike I am attempting to pass. This has lead me to wonder what the etiquette (if any) exists for moving into "the zone"..... I usually try to indicate but concede that this could be confusing/misleading for the cagers and would it mean anything to a bike behind me?

I find the SV's mirrors give me a massive blind spot behind me that's very easy for a bike to hide in!.

[Lou Girardin]

I use them to look out for white bikes with riders wearing fluoro vests.
They're good as width gauges too.

[jrandom]

I use them to look out for white bikes with riders wearing fluoro vests.

IMHO, if you're splitting and you actually see one of those in your *mirrors*, you're fscked, and you better just don your rubber underpants, start praying and hope that the rider thereof is having a good day.

I try to see them while they're still a klick or so up the road in front of me.

Failure has resulted in embarrassment...

[sAsLEX]

the other day i just knew i wasn't going to fit through a gap so did a mountain biking trick of leaning a little to make the bike thinner in a sense, was only moving just above walking pace and nicked the front brake lever as they aint standard i dont thingk and hang out a bit and my left elbow!! lol

As for mirrors, my left one is fokkin useless(off a cbr) and the right aint much better so turn head.

[inlinefour]

Would be asking for trouble if your not using/have them???

[DebK]

I lane split most of the time now in slow traffic. I do however keep one eye in my mirrors to make sure I'm not holding up faster lanesplitters - I move back in line, let them through & move back out again.

Have found however that if I keep my attention to the rear just a fraction too long, I increase my chances of failing to see a car change lanes in front. Only takes that split second of inattention.

[Hitcher]

Bolt-on mirrors. Now there's a concept...

[wkid_one]

Common theme in the US and UK is to take the mirrors off bikes and replace with blanks to fill the hole. Does kinda make the bike look better.

Given most mirrors are not much wider than the edge of your bars - if you are using the mirrors to find the gap - good fucken LUCK!

I tended to fold my mirrors flat against against the fairing most of the time anyway - esp when punting as it prevented me worrying about who was up my date.

Lane Splitting - why would you need mirrors anyway as you stay down the centre of two lanes?

[Zed]

Here's a question for the more dedicated lane splitters on the site:

When forcefully filtering through the traffic (this isn't relevant for filtering through stopped traffic), are mirrors a help ie. let you see quickly before you duck into the next lane, or a hindrance ie. stop you getting through those tempting little gaps

I lost my RHS mirror two weeks ago to a loose bolt and although its a nuisance having to look over my shoulder everytime and not being able to watch cars behind me (specially when merging into the fast lane if they're coming up quickly)... I have noticed its much less daunting nipping through the gaps when the mirror isn't there to distract me. so a bit of a pro for a few cons.

anyone tried more 'progressive' filtering without mirrors and if so, was it better with or without?I'm consciously always using my mirrors when commuting, spose cos I like to be aware of everything around me - frankly I'd feel lost without them. :crazy:

One major reason I use my mirrors when lanesplitting is to check for other bikers who are following me, sometimes they are going at a faster pace so I'll pull over and let them through!

[chickenfunkstar]

This is why I think mirrors are vitally important for lane splitters. I split large parts of SH2 in to Wellington and my biggest fear is either moving into "the zone" late and taking out another (faster) bike splitting behind me, or conversely being the faster bike and getting cut up by the bike I am attempting to pass. This has lead me to wonder what the etiquette (if any) exists for moving into "the zone"..... I usually try to indicate but concede that this could be confusing/misleading for the cagers and would it mean anything to a bike behind me?

I find the SV's mirrors give me a massive blind spot behind me that's very easy for a bike to hide in!.


I think i know what you mean, i usually make sure i turn my head and have a good look behind me then indicate when entering "the zone" for the first time. I.e. when traffic is just starting to slow down to the point where you first start to lane split.

Also i never ever pass another biker when lane splitting unless he specifically moves over to let me past.

CFS

[sAsLEX]

I'm consciously always using my mirrors when commuting, spose cos I like to be aware of everything around me - frankly I'd feel lost without them. :crazy:


if you move faster than the rest of the traffic as in splitting, you have no need for your mirrors as they are only showing you the past, you need to remain focussed on the future as that has the ability to change rapidly!!!

Where as the cars you just past are not going to suddenly brake in front of you, nor can they get to close as you are in lane 1A 2A etc rapidly putting a safety margin between you and every car you pass

[Zed]

if you move faster than the rest of the traffic as in splitting, you have no need for your mirrors...An exception to that would be the speeding ambulance or police vehicle on their way to an emergency...would be good to see them coming up the rear eh! :ride:

[sAsLEX]

An exception to that would be the speeding ambulance or police vehicle on their way to an emergency...would be good to see them coming up the rear eh! :ride:

while splitting I have often passed fire trucks, ambulances with their lights and sirens on as they are too slow!!! ok twice i think!! But they need people to move out of their way to filter bikes dont.
Mind you I wouldn't pass a cop on their way anywheres!!

That just leaves the likes of JRs friendly lane splitting enemy to avoid, so i will just try keep an eye for those white bikes

[John]

Heh, I dont mind mirrors when lane splitting, were abit annoying when I got stuck in peak on the NW, but all the same no incidents with nicking any cars or such, what do you guys do IF you nick a car, even thought they wouldnt hear it I guess.

Few days back I was late for a class and was breaking some serious laws i.e 100 in 50k zone :(, And got stuck at the back of the que as the dorks in front all parked in close to the centre line, so I folded the mirrors into the fairings, filtered to the front and flicked them out again, those at the front of the que werent to impressed, but not many bikers that lane split up here, I mean most are crusiers (although you get the odd few that try to out boggie you at the lights, only to be at the lights without the clutch engaged, after you have gotten 20m ahead, I have mean spider senses lol.)

[Mr Skid]

I folded the fairings, filtered to the front and flicked them out again
I folded my fairings too. I can't get them to fold back they way they were though. Maybe you could give me some tips? :moon:

[John]

I folded my fairings too. I can't get them to fold back they way they were though. Maybe you could give me some tips? :moon:
Oh thats just cheap and untastfull, my mirrors are flushed into my fairings, duh - zxr's are like omg so much better.

[madboy]

I find the faster I split the less attention I pay to my mirrors. Since I figure I'm narrower than a Beemer (particularly white ones) I'll prob spot them coming before they get close enough to cause financial inconvenience - and my power/weight wins. And I KNOW I'm narrower than a Commodore :msn-wink:

I used to keep an eye out for bikers coming up, but find that 99% of the time these days I'm "the biker coming up". Some bikers are great and just about ride off the road to let you past, or wave you through quickly or something to that effect. Some just think it's a friggin race and go for it (hate those bastards). Others just seem to not notice you. And as my preference is not to barge past another rider, I actually find bikes more inconvenient to pass than cars.

Although I note that today I officially joined the ranks of "those bastards" mentioned above when a red VTR1000 (anyone here???) rolled up behind me at the Korokoro lights on the way home. I've only had my bike a few weeks, it was the first time something decent caught up to me, and I was dying to extract revenge for all "those bastards" on bigger bikes who used to regularly pound my little FZR400 in a straight line. Sorry, I apologise to the red VTR for being a tosser, but my ego just had to do it.

[Mr Skid]

Oh thats just cheap and untastfull, my mirrors are flushed into my fairings, duh - zxr's are like omg so much better.
I don't know about my mirrors being flush, but some might argue my 'fearings' are flushed..

[Zed]

Thats what your ears are for.Tell that to the 'mirrorless' bikers who wear ear plugs! So Glen, what is the purpose of all those flashing lights on an ambulance then - to make it look pretty? :msn-wink:

Statement: mirrors on bikes are a necessity on the road even when lanesplitting!

[wkid_one]

Main rule of driving - don't give a fuck about what happens behind you - worry about what is about to happen in front of you.

Lights on ERV are principally for vehicles coming towards, sirens for vehicles in front of ERV facing other way - hence why sirens are facing forward.

Emergency vehicle flashing light recommendations have passed through several evolutions of NFPA standard changes since the 1970's. With each edition, the number of lights has increased. But, there does not appear to be any documented decrease in emergency vehicle accident rates. As of this writing there are some serious questions pertaining to the appropriate number, color, and placement of flashing lights needed for safety.<SUP>1</SUP> (http://www.respondersafety.com/news/2004/#one) To complicate the issue is the addition of amber to the light inventory.
More than three decades ago some police agencies, possibly in California or Illinois started to roof mount a flashing amber light to be used when a working police car was parked on the road shoulder or along a curb. This tactic was in response to a number of collisions involving a civilian driver striking a stationary police car displaying the typical emergency lights. Many of the vehicle operators were thought to be involved in alcohol consumption, fatigued, and/ or under the influence of drugs.

The law enforcement approach of using the amber light initially seems to have been an informal trial and error methodology rather than a formal flashing light study. However, from these early experiences and observations there appeared to be reductions in collisions involving civilians rear- ending or sideswiping police emergency vehicles utilizing an amber light.

Unlike many of the topics we have addressed in this series on EMS myths, the scientific literature related to use of emergency lights and sirens is quite limited—and what literature exists does not clarify the issue. First, do lights and sirens save a significant amount of time? Researchers in North Carolina compared lights and siren transport to non-lights and siren transport in an urban setting where transport time to a university medical center involved distances of eight miles or less. They found that lights and siren transport only averaged 43.5 seconds faster than non-lights and siren transport. They concluded, "Although the mean difference is statistically significant, it is not clinically significant, except in rare circumstances." <SUP>1</SUP> A similar study conducted in Syracuse, NY, found that lights and siren response reduced response times by an average of 1 minute, 46 seconds. They concluded, "Although statistically significant, this time saving is likely to be clinically relevant in only a few cases." <SUP>2</SUP> Researchers in Minneapolis, MN, similarly studied the role of emergency lights and sirens in emergency response times. They studied 64 runs over a nine-month period and concluded that responses with lights and sirens saved an average of 3.02 minutes over non-lights and siren responses.<SUP>3</SUP> Additional studies are needed to clarify this issue. But, geographical differences, distances to hospitals and other variables may never allow this question to be adequately studied.
So, should patient condition, and nothing else, guide usage of emergency lights and sirens? This may be a little clearer. Pennsylvania researchers studied a county-wide, single-provider, private EMS system that used 11 ALS ambulances. Annual call volume for the service area was 14,000, and the county population was approximately 90,000. A medical protocol was developed, and carried on each ambulance, that provided medical criteria for lights and siren transport. A total of 1,625 patients were entered into the study. Based on the medical protocol, 92% of patients were transported without lights and sirens, while 8% were transported with lights and sirens. No adverse outcomes were identified as being related to non-lights and siren transport.<SUP>4</SUP>
How much time makes a difference? This remains unclear. Much EMS practice is based upon the concept of a so-called "Golden Hour." However, recent studies have shown that there is little evidence to either support or refute the concept of a "Golden Hour."<SUP>5,6</SUP> Intuitively, some emergencies may benefit from rapid response and transport; however, most probably will not. With this in mind, we must weigh the benefits of lights and siren response (which appear fairly minimal) with the potential risks (which appear to be fairly significant).
Do the benefits of lights and siren transport outweigh the possible risks? Again, this must be a local decision. A recent study estimated that the fatality rate for EMS personnel is 12.7 fatalities per 100,000 EMS workers annually, which compares with 14.2 for police, 16.5 for firefighters, and a national average of 5.0 during the same time period. Most fatalities were due to traffic accidents.<SUP>7</SUP> Some industry experts have estimated that there are 12,000 ambulance-related crashes annually in the United States, causing nearly 120 deaths.<SUP>8</SUP> Numerous accidents have been attributed to use of emergency lights and sirens.<SUP>9</SUP> But, there are several factors to consider. Many EMS and fire services poorly prepare their personnel for emergency vehicle operation, especially when compared to training of law enforcement officers. Second, in many areas, EMS provider knowledge of basic traffic safety laws pertaining to emergency vehicle operation is poor.<SUP>10,11</SUP> We need to address these issues to assure that lights and siren response is as safe as possible and used as little as possible.

[Madmax]

try riding a ZX10R might as well not have mirrors at all
(all you can see is your elbows)

[Coldkiwi]

yeah, I guess having read these posts and thinking more about it (emergency vehicles that may (police) or may not (ambos) be trying to catch up with you!) some sort of mirror is kinda necessary to at least keep some sort of tabs on whats happening behind. And for once, I'm thinking that the likes of MV F4 mirrors/998 style little stumpy things might fit the bill nicely! Really narrow but if you want to see behind quickly, just lift a wing and have a gawk. For a proper gawk, you always need to turn around of course.

It does stagger me about the amount people that don't see or hear emergency vehicles trying to get past even when they're almost practicing proctology on the back of their car. A casual glance in a mirror to see where the next gap might come from if the traffic is flowing makes them pretty easy to spot. I guess it goes to show how tuned out some cagers get huh? (no biker ever got to that stage and stayed upright I'm sure!).... well, apart from that spanish dude who apparently got hypothermia and froze solid but didn't stop last year