People peddling bullshit as fact on KB

[vifferman]

(Yeah, I know - I do it all the time, but then you should expect that from my signature line, right? <_<)
This isn't about me - it's about noobies or inquisitive non-noobs using forums like this as a convenient source of information, and perhaps well-meaning but misinformed people giving them shit advice.

Please make sure that if you are giving advice, you have some reputable source to back it up.

I say this because someone posted on here that using kerosene or other petroleum-based solvents to clean your chain will wreck the o-rings, x-rings, or pqrst-rings in your chain. This is despite technical evidence being readily available from an even a cursory and badly-phrased Interdweeb search that shows that these seals are made from compounds that are unaffected by even long-term immersion in kerosene or any of its derivatives, such as the Stoddarts solvent used as a carrier in WD40, CRC and the like. Kinda obvious, when you think about it, as I bet almost all of the carriers used in aerosol spray lubes for chains are in fact derived from very similar petroleum-base chemicals!

This made me wonder how many other perhaps well-meant but completely erroneous statements (urban myth, if you like) had been posted on here and people believed it because of the way it was posted. In this case, using emotive language basically saying, "if you use kerosene on your o-ring or x-ring chain, you will completely fuck it up!" This is just fear mongering, and even if well-intentioned, is crap behaviour that on many forums would see the post deleted and the person who posted it censured.

The good thing is, that it is relatively easy to separate urban myth from truth if you are preapared to do a little investigation.

[ital916]

(Yeah, I know - I do it all the time, but then you should expect that from my signature line, right? <_<)
This isn't about me - it's about noobies or inquisitive non-noobs using forums like this as a convenient source of information, and perhaps well-meaning but misinformed people giving them shit advice.

Please make sure that if you are giving advice, you have some reputable source to back it up.

I say this because someone posted on here that using kerosene or other petroleum-based solvents to clean your chain will wreck the o-rings, x-rings, or pqrst-rings in your chain. This is despite technical evidence being readily available from an even a cursory and badly-phrased Interdweeb search that shows that these seals are made from compounds that are unaffected by even long-term immersion in kerosene or any of its derivatives, such as the Stoddarts solvent used as a carrier in WD40, CRC and the like. Kinda obvious, when you think about it, as I bet almost all of the carriers used in aerosol spray lubes for chains are in fact derived from very similar petroleum-base chemicals!

This made me wonder how many other perhaps well-meant but completely erroneous statements (urban myth, if you like) had been posted on here and people believed it because of the way it was posted. In this case, using emotive language basically saying, "if you use kerosene on your o-ring or x-ring chain, you will completely fuck it up!" This is just fear mongering, and even if well-intentioned, is crap behaviour that on many forums would see the post deleted and the person who posted it censured.

The good thing is, that it is relatively easy to separate urban myth from truth if you are preapared to do a little investigation.

I find the funniest is people telling new riders to sandpaper their new tires....haha :laugh:

[jetboy]

Yeah another myth is that Honda riders are gay :2guns:

[vifferman]

How about some other examples?
One of my 'favourites' is the "hero wannabe racer dude" one that encourages people to totally ignore the manufacturer's recommendations (built up from extensive testing a research) and run their tyres at race-track pressures on the road, for "improved grip and performance, and faster warm-up".

How about encouraging riders to smash the wing mirrors off or kick the door panels in on cars driven by unobservant motorists? (A more effective and funny option is to open one of their back doors).

Using high-octane gas will make your bike perform more betterer.

If you drop your helmet, or have a crash but don't hit your head, you should immediately replace your helmet. Makes sense - if it's been rigorously designed to protect your head when it hits something at high speed, then surely a minor knock will completely bugger it?

The most insidious examples are those based on or extrapolated from personal experience. "I did this, and was OK, therefore it's OK."

[CookMySock]

It doesn't really matter does it? Oil? Kero? Hairspray? Olive oil? Bum grease?

Everyone has an opinion, and this is a public forum, so hey lots of people say what they think and they have fun doing it. Thats the most important thing.

If some newbie puts hairspray on their chain it's not going to stop the planet rotating or anything. Relax!

Steve

[vifferman]

Yeah another myth is that Honda riders are gay :2guns:
I don't get that. If there was any logic at all to that, then it would be to look at the most gaily-coloured bikes and infer that those bikes were owned by gay people (assuming gay people like gaudy bikes). That would make GSXRs the most gay bikes. Yet we know that all GSXR riders have big balls, are very smart for choosing the most bestest fastest bikes, and are macho.
Perhaps too macho. :confused:

[Winston001]

Helen Clark is a gorgeous woman who causes bikers to go weak at the knees.

[Big Dave]

I'd bath ME in WD40. :love:

[vifferman]

I'd bath ME in WD40. :love:
There are actually people who do use WD40 on their skin, including some who swear by it for helping ease the arthritis in their joints.

[ManDownUnder]

I'd bath ME in WD40. :love:

Run out of KY again Dave?

[Headbanger]

Your sick Dave, Sure it makes a great under-arm deodorant and really makes putting your boots on super easy but your way over the top.

Also makes a great tooth paste, breath freshener, and improves sex.....just spray it on your hand......

[Genestho]

I have seen some very important and valuable advice on KB, and then there's opinions, then there's BS.

IMO - The onus must be on "you" to find out facts.

[Mikkel]

There are actually people who do use WD40 on their skin, including some who swear by it for helping ease the arthritis in their joints.

I suppose skin cancer could be a worthwhile trade-off if the arthritis is bad enough.

[FROSTY]

Viffer- I got in a shit load of trouble with the then pink person "in charge" when I was mechanical forum moderator --- I had a policy of removing without warning posts offering bad advice on the mechanical forums.
One gem I got in a power of shit over was the knucklehead that advised someone else to spray CRC on their brake disk to quieten down the squeaking.
The poster was actually cracking a funny and for that matter is a person I call a freind. The advice out there for one and all to see was a potential accident waiting to happen.

[Ixion]

I don't get that. If there was any logic at all to that, then it would be to look at the most gaily-coloured bikes and infer that those bikes were owned by gay people (assuming gay people like gaudy bikes). That would make GSXRs the most gay bikes. Yet we know that all GSXR riders have big balls, are very smart for choosing the most bestest fastest bikes, and are macho.
Perhaps too macho. :confused:

Overcompensation. The ones in denial are always the worst

[Edbear]

I have seen some very important and valuable advice on KB, and then there's opinions, then there's BS.

IMO - The onus must be on "you" to find out facts.


But, but, surely you're not recommending... :gob: personal responsibility...
:blink:

[Disco Dan]

knucklehead that advised someone else to spray CRC on their brake disk to quieten down the squeaking.

Dont forget the classic - wet look tire shine spray ! :blink:

[ital916]

If you drop your helmet, or have a crash but don't hit your head, you should immediately replace your helmet. Makes sense - if it's been rigorously designed to protect your head when it hits something at high speed, then surely a minor knock will completely bugger it?



"this food may contain traces of peanuts"

The helmet thing is exactly the same. It is about liability. I have seen manufacturers stating that helmets dropped from about fifteen centimetres can have a detrimental affect on their protetive capabilities let alone dropping it off a seat or off a wing mirror *for those that hang it on them*. It covers them from someone going after them after mistreating their helmet.

Personally, I dont roll, drop or knock my helmets and treat them very carefully. Common sense would prevail hopefully, I advise customers getting into riding for the first time to be extra careful with their helmets and not to treat them like bowling balls. Again, one cant hold their hands, they must use their common sense.

As for the small knock damaging the helmet. You would be suprised the damage a "small" knock can do.

[FROSTY]

I have seen some very important and valuable advice on KB, and then there's opinions, then there's BS.

IMO - The onus must be on "you" to find out facts.
Thereing lies the issue I had way back when. The person asking the question is of questionable experience --BY that I mean it could be a 12 year old kid with no mechanical knowledge or it could be a mechanical engineer with 30 years trade experience. You just don't know.
I've always maintained there needs to be two seperate "sections" to KB
The playground and the classroom so to speak. --Do what you wan't and basicly say what you want out in the playground. In the classroom its about facts not "myths'

[slofox]

"this food may contain traces of peanuts"

The helmet thing is exactly the same. It is about liability. I have seen manufacturers stating that helmets dropped from about fifteen centimetres can have a detrimental affect on their protetive capabilities let alone dropping it off a seat or off a wing mirror *for those that hang it on them*. It covers them from someone going after them after mistreating their helmet.

Personally, I dont roll, drop or knock my helmets and treat them very carefully. Common sense would prevail hopefully, I advise customers getting into riding for the first time to be extra careful with their helmets and not to treat them like bowling balls. Again, one cant hold their hands, they must use their common sense.

As for the small knock damaging the helmet. You would be suprised the damage a "small" knock can do.


This linky (http://2wheeltuesday.com/2008/10/jay-leno-talks-about-arai-helmets-with-bruce-porter/)is very good re dropping helmets...and other helmetty stuff...

[Crisis management]

You have a valid point Viff but after all, it is the interweeb and there are no quarantees of you getting the correct answer to your question. I have to admit to the odd sarcastic comment to some questions I come across and have got into a heap of trouble on another site by offering a wryly sarcastic response to a query over ABS...those yanks have absolutely no sense of humour.
We don't purport to be a free advice service to n00bs, asking a question here is the same as asking a bunch of strangers, you will get a response based on their state of mind and experience. It is up to the questioner to evaluate the responses and decide what to do.
Having said that, I would hope no one would deliberately mislead anyone.

Do I have to add any emoticon to show that this is a serious post?

[vifferman]

Do I have to add any emoticon to show that this is a serious post?
I don't think we have one of those... :confused:
Unless it's this serious looking dude: :angry:
Or this obviously righteous one: :innocent:
Or perhaps this learned one :hitcher:

I take your point (and it left a slight red mark on my skin - ow!)
But (however!) I'm a bit grumpy this morning and one particular post got my goat because - like many other posts - the person resorted to emotive language rather than fact to press his point.
And he was worngA! However (but!) he was so emphatic, that he had me disbelieving what I'd held to be true, so I did some checking.
Just to make sure.
Because it's easy to take things as being right.
Just because others say so.
Or because it's something you do.
And you read it on KB, so it must be correct.


This linky is very good re dropping helmets...and other helmetty stuff...
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. It's just SO full of logic and commonsense, like "we make our helmets to withstand all sorts of shit, so there's no way a small knock is going to do much harm". You'd expect a helmet dude to want people to want people to perpetuate myths that result in helmets being replaced more often than necessary.
Huh. Mebbe he was lying, just to use some reverse logic!

[Genestho]

But, but, surely you're not recommending... :gob: personal responsibility...
:blink:
:shit:That ole chestnut?? :lol:


Thereing lies the issue I had way back when. The person asking the question is of questionable experience --BY that I mean it could be a 12 year old kid with no mechanical knowledge or it could be a mechanical engineer with 30 years trade experience. You just don't know.
I've always maintained there needs to be two seperate "sections" to KB
The playground and the classroom so to speak. --Do what you wan't and basicly say what you want out in the playground. In the classroom its about facts not "myths'
Hmmm, you'll always get a newb that misconstrue fiction as fact, and also, sarcasm is quite often lost. P/T's are lost.
You have how many thousand contributing, with different levels of communication. Maybe KB needs a disclaimer on the front page?:laugh: (P/T)

[merv]

I'd bath ME in WD40. :love:

Where the hell is my tin of WD40 with its fancy pivoting up squirt tube, I looked for it in the weekend and it seems to be gone. Damn I'm going senile.

[vifferman]

Where the hell is my tin of WD40 with its fancy pivoting up squirt tube, I looked for it in the weekend and it seems to be gone. Damn I'm going senile.
Big Dave has it - he needs quite a few cans for a bath.

Wotchoo want a "pivoting up squirt tube" for anyway? Nasal spray for your senility? :confused:

[merv]

Nah it was one of those nice ones that lets you spray out of the nozzle or flip up the tube and do a fine squirt with no need to attach the tube, but I can't remember what I've done with it. No bullshit there just plain facts.

Dave must have dropped in while I was away and stolen it. No facts there, just bullshit.

[Big Dave]

Damn I'm going senile.

That's ridiculous Mervyn. Preposterous. What do you mean 'going'.

[sugilite]

How about some other examples?
One of my 'favourites' is the "hero wannabe racer dude" one that encourages people to totally ignore the manufacturer's recommendations (built up from extensive testing a research) and run their tyres at race-track pressures on the road, for "improved grip and performance, and faster warm-up".
"

Hmmm, that's actually true (if you 'really' do need faster warm up and extra grip), but it also wears your tyres out a LOT faster.

[SARGE]

I'd bath ME in WD40. :love:

... ooo .. and Traction Master Aftershave???:love:



Yeah another myth is that Honda riders are gay :2guns:

nope .. that one is confirmed..


back to you jamey

[LBD]

The seals in a chain will be resistant to petroleum products like Kerosene.

But unlike WD40 and diesel for that matter, kerosene is dry, penitrates sealed joints washes out any lubricant and evaporates off fully leaves the seal face dry.

It is essential that IF a chain is washed in Kerosene, a spray on lubricant like that in an aerosol can is used luberally. Spray lubricants use a cut back solvent that will penitrate a dry joint like that left after a kero wash.

A second point, is that a little lubricant on the oring seal also helps seal the joint. If that joint is dried out by washing in Kero, there is an increased risk of introducing abrasive particles when the seal/link moves around a sprocket, leading to premature chain wear.

Now you need to decide, do I know what I am talking about or am I bullshitting out a hole in my head?


Ever seen those pies in a celophane packet with labling that says..."Contents, one pie"

[ital916]

This linky (http://2wheeltuesday.com/2008/10/jay-leno-talks-about-arai-helmets-with-bruce-porter/)is very good re dropping helmets...and other helmetty stuff...

It is very good that video. Customers dont usually believe me when I say forget about the cheeks and we have to concentrate on the forhead and circumference of their skull area.

Thats the great thing about the shoeis I fit, once the circumferential sizing is done the cheek pads and liners can be sized to fit. As in the video, arais are amazing helmets as well. I do like the corsair.

When I first got into motorcycling I was sold a helmet that was way too big for me, now that I look back. Most of the gear sold to me was of the wrong size. I tell customers it may take a while but get it right.

Again, very informative video. It is always good to learn new things and even to refresh ones memory. *Though leno doesnt seem like the sharpest arrow does he*:laugh:

[James Deuce]

Where the hell is my tin of WD40 with its fancy pivoting up squirt tube, I looked for it in the weekend and it seems to be gone. Damn I'm going senile.


Mine's depressurised with about a third of the contents still inside. Shoddy bloody workmanship.

[LBD]

Using high-octane gas will make your bike perform more betterer.

."

And while I am lecturing....

I have an article in a bike mag... I will dig it out when I get home...
It is a test with near new late model sprot bike on a dyno, with 3 different BP octane rated petrols. There is from memory about 3% between best and worst.

A contributing factor in a modern bike is the Knock sensor that detects preignition that is more prevelent with low octane fuels. If preignition (detination) is sensed, timing and fueling is adjusted dropping the performance...this is more the case with lower octane fuels.

Now you need to decide, do I know what I am talking about or am I dribbling from a hole in my head?

[jetboy]

nope .. that one is confirmed..



Aren't you supposed to provide supporting evidence now?

:corn:

[vifferman]

It is essential that IF a chain is washed in Kerosene, a spray on lubricant like that in an aerosol can is used luberally.
Luberally. :laugh:
I thought the reason for using kerosene (or so I've heard/read multitudinous times) is that kerosene actually leaves an oily film, so that it shy it's a good cleaner to use on mechanical parts (apart from when you don't want a film left)..


Now you need to decide, do I know what I am talking about or am I bullshitting out a hole in my head?
Well, it sounds feasible and suitably technical. But where's the citation and references to back up your nice words?



Ever seen those pies in a celophane packet with labling that says..."Contents, one pie"
So... you're a pie now?


And while I am lecturing....

I have an article in a bike mag... I will dig it out when I get home...
It is a test with near new late model sprot bike on a dyno, with 3 different BP octane rated petrols. There is from memory about 3% between best and worst.

A contributing factor in a modern bike is the Knock sensor that detects preignition that is more prevelent with low octane fuels. If preignition (detination) is sensed, timing and fueling is adjusted dropping the performance...this is more the case with lower octane fuels.

Now you need to decide, do I know what I am talking about or am I dribbling from a hole in my head?
On this one, I'd say you sound like you are knowledgeable, but could well be 'dribbling', as knock sensors aren't common on bikes. I say this based on extrapolating from a statistically invalid sample of two (2): the last 2 (two) models of VFR800 have sensors for speed, air temp, coolant temp, cam angle, ignition, barometric pressure, manifold pressure, throttle position, revs, and 17,348 other things, but pre-ignition isn't one of them.
But then Hondas are gay, so my very carefully thought out theorem falls down a bit because of that.

[imdying]

Yes, no knock sensors for the big four. If there were likely exceptions, I'm picking they'd be the GTR1400 and Goldwing.

[ManDownUnder]

Mine's depressurised with about a third of the contents still inside. Shoddy bloody workmanship.

All is not lost. You can still drink it but you have to punch a hole in the bottom of the can. Or you could help yerself the Big Dave's bathwater ...!?!

[smoky]

do you really think people today are stupid enough to take what's posted on Kb and believe it? Very few people now days would - I think some people take KB far to seriously. Younger people are far more savvy about shyte like that than what we give them credit for. They do seem to have a better bullshit radar than the generation before them. Perhaps because they are surrounded by so much dodgy information right from an early age

They may talk about it, read it, and hope to educate themselves a little - but ultimately look for a more reliable reputable source of information - surely.
And I guess the importance of the information would also determine how much weight they would give to taking notice of information and advice on here

For example if you were sick, googled your symptoms, you may try the advice on there, but you certainly would get your arse down to a doctor if you were feeling real bad
And you wouldn't probably let your mate do open heart surgery from a how to do guide on the internet - would you


Reader beware I say

[Mystic13]

Viff you also forget in your first post that there are many truths. You assume someone is either telling the truth or not.

The beauty of the forum is that;

poster 1 has a problem;

poster 2 has a solution "a".

poster 3 has solution "b".

poster 4 says both are rubbish and the solution is "c".

So Poster 1 was telling the truth as far as they knew. As was 2 and 3.

Sometimes the truth is dependant on our sphere of knowledge.

Example 1.

I wanted BMW to put synthetic oil in my new bike a couple of years back. I figured the engine would be smoother and have less vibes and change gear easier, based on my experience of using synthetics for 25 years in all sorts of situations.

The BMW mechanic said no, you can't use synthetics in a BMW the clutch will slip and it is not good for the motor. (I won't get into the basis for this myth).

I then approached BMW NZ. They were adamant it was a no go for the same reasons.

I asked for them to check with BMW Germany. BMW Germany apparently responded with the same.

So I emailed the oil specialist at Castrol UK as BMW recommended Castrol. The bloke agreed with me. And Castrol had a synthetic product.

So I emailed Rotax in Austria who make the engine on a Friday evening. On Monday I got an email from BMW Germany stating they now agreed that the Castrol Synthetic was approved for my bike.

I called my BMW mechanic and sent him the email. He got the oil in and after throwing it in they couldn't believe how much smoother the gearbox was, how much smother the engine was, how much the vibes had been reduced.

Since then they've been throwing it in pretty much everything and the problems of tighter gearboxes and vibey bikes has been dramatically reduced.

So in this case the BMW mechanic, BMW NZ, and BMW Germany were all telling the truth until there beliefs had been changed.

Synthetic oils are now used worldwide by BMW dealers where as 2 years ago they were banned from all BMW bikes.

Often what we believe to be true is based on our base of knowledge.

There are numerous examples of this in posts asking how to do things.

So for me it's not that the other person is wrong it's just that someone has a broader band of knowledge. It's this melting pot of ideas that triggers learning, understanding and new ideas.

____________

The other day I had a lady come and see me with stomach ulcers. Now I'd never worked with them before. But she had been a client of mine and was used to me doing some things differently. I had a quick read of the medical research and beliefs. I worked with her for one session.

She called back the next day and advised me that the level of wind was down by 70%, the level of pain was down by 60%, the duration of that pain was down by 60%. She let me know she was able to get her fist nights decent sleep. Now I know what I did and the reasoning behind it and I can replicate that. But until then I hadn't done that before and with a quick ring around amongst peers I couldn't find anyone that had worked on ulcers.

So now if someone who had ulcers rang a medical practitioner and then rang me they would get two different truths.

P.S. If you're a medical practitioner reading this and you want to talk more, by all means PM me I'd be happy to talk specifically about what I do. I work with medical practitioners in a number of areas.


Cheers.

Love the melting pot of ideas and KB. Where would we be without it. Oh yeah, we'd be reading the manual and asking three mates. KB beats three mates hands down.

[LBD]

Luberally. :laugh:. Pun intended



I thought the reason for using kerosene (or so I've heard/read multitudinous times) is that kerosene actually leaves an oily film, so that it shy it's a good cleaner to use on mechanical parts (apart from when you don't want a film left)...
Kerosene is dry, can leave a slight residue that is the reminantsof the oil and grease being washed off, that did not evaporate with the kero . Very good for cleaning oil and grease away


Well, it sounds feasible and suitably technical. But where's the citation and references to back up your nice words?

Job Title..."Reliability Specialist - Lubrication" Should cover that...No not KY...

I analyze some 12000 oil samples per year, and purchase 2.4 million litre of lube oil a year, and look after contamination control, Apologies for blowing my own trumpet.


So... you're a pie now? Just a humorous diversion


On this one, I'd say you sound like you are knowledgeable, but could well be 'dribbling', as knock sensors aren't common on bikes. I say this based on extrapolating from a statistically invalid sample of two (2): the last 2 (two) models of VFR800 have sensors for speed, air temp, coolant temp, cam angle, ignition, barometric pressure, manifold pressure, throttle position, revs, and 17,348 other things, but pre-ignition isn't one of them.
But then Hondas are gay, so my very carefully thought out theorem falls down a bit because of that.

Hondas...couldnt agree more....The knock sensor is a generic for pre ignition detection, sometimes a special detector other times a calculted condition. In modern engines an ecm can look at all factors and determine if preignition is likely...as I mentioned it is only a contributing factor, Will find the article on fuels...

[CookMySock]

but after all, it is the interweeb and there are no quarantees of you getting the correct answer to your question.Eggsactly.


Maybe KB needs a disclaimer on the front page?:laugh: (P/T)No, its the Internet that should have the disclaimer, and special mention of the people who get on the Internet and take umbrage that their "facts" are not being taken seriously. Boo fucken hoo.


do you really think people today are stupid enough to take what's posted on Kb and believe it? Very few people now days would - I think some people take KB far to seriously. Especially the wise ones who expect all to bow to their superiour intellect - probably why they are on the site, certainly it is not for them to learn anything.


Younger people are far more savvy about shyte like that than what we give them credit for. They do seem to have a better bullshit radar than the generation before them. I don't think so. I think they are just the same as they have always been. The difference is that the old people are more full of know-it-all, do-it-my-son bullshit than they have ever been.


Steve

[Edbear]

Viff you also forget in your first post that there are many truths. You assume someone is either telling the truth or not.

...(SNIP)...

So I emailed Rotax in Austria who make the engine on a Friday evening. On Monday I got an email from BMW Germany stating they now agreed that the Castrol Synthetic was approved for my bike.....


Rotax make BMW engines on Friday evening...? :blink:

[Mystic13]

Rotax make BMW engines on Friday evening...? :blink:

lol. Yeah, apparently they do.

I was actually more amazed to email Rotax in Austria. Someone read my email, thought about it made a decision. Emailed BMW Germany who thought about it made a decision created a new policy for all BMW bikes and emailed me on Monday. In my lifetime that quick a response may never happen again.

Apologies to the Grammar? or Grammer? :Police:

[jetboy]

do you really think people today are stupid enough to take what's posted on Kb and believe it? Very few people now days would - I think some people take KB far to seriously.

I am stupid enough to believe most of the technical information on this website - mainly because I am still in my 1st year of motorcycling and have never worked on bikes before, so I turn to those in the know (the motorcycling community) for advice. Yes it's debatable whether "those in the know" are correct, but if 3 or 4 examples or methods are given and the majority tend to agree with one or two, I'd happily follow that advice. And to date it's worked a treat.




Younger people are far more savvy about shyte like that than what we give them credit for. They do seem to have a better bullshit radar than the generation before them. Perhaps because they are surrounded by so much dodgy information right from an early age


I'm relatively young and can confirm that when I was a teenager/early 20's I thought I was bullet proof just like you guys did when you were younger.
The older I get, the easier it is to filter out the bullshit from the useful stuff but only because of my life experiences.




They may talk about it, read it, and hope to educate themselves a little - but ultimately look for a more reliable reputable source of information - surely.
And I guess the importance of the information would also determine how much weight they would give to taking notice of information and advice on here


True, but when I ask a question like the chain lube one this thread was based on, I felt no need to go any further than ask here and on another forum (specific to my bike) for the informaton I was after. Funilly enough I trust what people say - I figure why would someone give me false information? Then again, people say I'm too trusting.




Reader beware I say

Agreed. I read somewhere that chicks don't like it backdoor when we all know that's not true. :shifty:

[CookMySock]

Agreed. I read somewhere that chicks don't like it backdoor when we all know that's not true. :shifty:They're doing it all wrong, thats why.

Steve

[YellowDog]

Good thread.

The KB forum has a real mixed bag of people with a commonly shared and uniting interest (Motorcycles).

Of course there will be a lot of BS and subtle provocation (some not so subtle) to make the dialogue a little more interesting and humourous.

FACT: Not all Honda riders are gay. BUT you must not let one or two exceptions tarnish Honda's reputation. And if after visiting this site, a n00b goes out and buys a Honda and still claims not to be gay; well I only have one word for such a person. D E N I A L

But seriously, some of the more serious BS on this site; whilst being obvious to most readers, could easily be taken as gospel by some poor unsuspecting n00b.

Poor Suckers.........

[The Stranger]

Viff you also forget in your first post that there are many truths. You assume someone is either telling the truth or not.

The beauty of the forum is that;

poster 1 has a problem;

poster 2 has a solution "a".

poster 3 has solution "b".

poster 4 says both are rubbish and the solution is "c".

So Poster 1 was telling the truth as far as they knew. As was 2 and 3.

Sometimes the truth is dependant on our sphere of knowledge.



In viffer's OP he mentioned being prepared to substantiate your position.
Assuming 2, 3 and 4 have references and reasons it's all good isn't it?
No one lied and in many cases there is several ways to skin a cat. The ones that piss me off are the ones who rely upon nothing more than opinion and pose that as fact.

Sure, people should validate what they read, however this is only necessary because of lazy sloppy bastards insist on posting their opinions as fact all the time to satisfy some inane need for self import.

By all means, post opinion, but as you have done, couch it as such.

[dipshit]

Like "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers" you mean?

[The Stranger]

IMO - The onus must be on "you" to find out facts.

Make no mistake, lives are at stake, I just don't get how people can trivialise that. It HAS happened before that someone young and a little naive put CRC on their brakes, how would you feel if you had made that flippant comment and someone died? Would you have been - well hey, it's his fault for not checking?

So sure, you should check facts - but not everyone does at all the right times. Isn't it simpler for those that don't know what they are talking about to simply not talk?

[The Stranger]

Everyone has an opinion, and this is a public forum, so hey lots of people say what they think and they have fun doing it. Thats the most important thing.



God you are full of shit. You get all bent out of shape when other have fun with opinions. You're a bloody hypocrite.

[vifferman]

Good.... Good.
My evil plan is working....:shifty:
[Insert evil hand-rubbing mental image here]

[MSTRS]

Like "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers" you mean?

No. That assertion is actually true...if you accept that blame is about 50/50 between rider/driver. But of the 50% caused by rider, a big proportion of them also drive cars. Ergo - most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

[Morcs]

Ban the noobs. KB should be elitist.

[Littleman]

I've learnt a real gem on KB.

Speed doesn't kill.

[MaxB]

And while I am lecturing....

I have an article in a bike mag... I will dig it out when I get home...
It is a test with near new late model sprot bike on a dyno, with 3 different BP octane rated petrols. There is from memory about 3% between best and worst.

A contributing factor in a modern bike is the Knock sensor that detects preignition that is more prevelent with low octane fuels. If preignition (detination) is sensed, timing and fueling is adjusted dropping the performance...this is more the case with lower octane fuels.

Now you need to decide, do I know what I am talking about or am I dribbling from a hole in my head?

Which is exactly what happened with some of the mid-90s efi hot hatches imported from Europe. They needed 98 ULP to run. Our fuel got their computers screaming enough and the power was reduced to protect the motor (anti-knock loop). A quick trip to the dealers for re-chipping did the trick. Less power but they ran O.K. Perhaps things like that that is where the myth came from. I note the Jappas don't seem to have the same problems.

[ManDownUnder]

[Insert evil hand-rubbing mental image here]

... errr... rubbing what?

[Genestho]

Isn't it simpler for those that don't know what they are talking about to simply not talk?

You'd think so! If only it were so easy! How do you filter fact? You can't, rather circular really.
:shifty:What are we talking about again? :doh: :laugh:

[CookMySock]

some of the more serious BS on this site; whilst being obvious to most readers, could easily be taken as gospel by some poor unsuspecting n00b. Only to people who can't think for themselves, and they are dangerous regardless.
We are very fortunate to have members such as Stranger, whose opinions ARE fact, so we are kept on the straight and narrow.

Steve

[boomer]

... are dangerous regardless.

Steve

How very fookin Apt. The fact you're in this thread speaks volumes but that pearler is pricess.

[tigertim20]

I think that generally, when people do ask a question on here, by the time they get online again and check for responses, there has been more than one, and if the responses are conflicting, and the person chooses to just beleive the first thing they are told, then they are too stupid to own a bike anyway. period.
I ask questions on here, and wait till I get several replies, and if in doubt I google or do other checks to see what the best reply is.

Often, and this may already have been said, but sometimes theres not just one right answer, sometimes theres several things that will work, and people are just saying what they do themselves, offering a suggestion.

[Marmoot]

(Yeah, I know - I do it all the time, but then you should expect that from my signature line, right? <_<)
This isn't about me - it's about noobies or inquisitive non-noobs using forums like this as a convenient source of information, and perhaps well-meaning but misinformed people giving them shit advice.

Please make sure that if you are giving advice, you have some reputable source to back it up.

I say this because someone posted on here that using kerosene or other petroleum-based solvents to clean your chain will wreck the o-rings, x-rings, or pqrst-rings in your chain. This is despite technical evidence being readily available from an even a cursory and badly-phrased Interdweeb search that shows that these seals are made from compounds that are unaffected by even long-term immersion in kerosene or any of its derivatives, such as the Stoddarts solvent used as a carrier in WD40, CRC and the like. Kinda obvious, when you think about it, as I bet almost all of the carriers used in aerosol spray lubes for chains are in fact derived from very similar petroleum-base chemicals!

This made me wonder how many other perhaps well-meant but completely erroneous statements (urban myth, if you like) had been posted on here and people believed it because of the way it was posted. In this case, using emotive language basically saying, "if you use kerosene on your o-ring or x-ring chain, you will completely fuck it up!" This is just fear mongering, and even if well-intentioned, is crap behaviour that on many forums would see the post deleted and the person who posted it censured.

The good thing is, that it is relatively easy to separate urban myth from truth if you are preapared to do a little investigation.

Mate, I'm not sure if this is a myth or truth. You'd better have some reputable source to back this claim up.

[The Stranger]

We are very fortunate to have members such as Stranger, whose opinions ARE fact, so we are kept on the straight and narrow.


Well, top marks for consistency.
Consistently confusing opinion and fact and consistently posting stupid shit.

[McJim]

The sky is green. 'strue. 'nuff said.

[NighthawkNZ]

The sky is green. 'strue. 'nuff said.

its black at the moment... <_<

[Creeping Death]

(Yeah, I know - I do it all the time, but then you should expect that from my signature line, right? <_<)
This isn't about me - it's about noobies or inquisitive non-noobs using forums like this as a convenient source of information, and perhaps well-meaning but misinformed people giving them shit advice.

Please make sure that if you are giving advice, you have some reputable source to back it up.

I say this because someone posted on here that using kerosene or other petroleum-based solvents to clean your chain will wreck the o-rings, x-rings, or pqrst-rings in your chain. This is despite technical evidence being readily available from an even a cursory and badly-phrased Interdweeb search that shows that these seals are made from compounds that are unaffected by even long-term immersion in kerosene or any of its derivatives, such as the Stoddarts solvent used as a carrier in WD40, CRC and the like. Kinda obvious, when you think about it, as I bet almost all of the carriers used in aerosol spray lubes for chains are in fact derived from very similar petroleum-base chemicals!

This made me wonder how many other perhaps well-meant but completely erroneous statements (urban myth, if you like) had been posted on here and people believed it because of the way it was posted. In this case, using emotive language basically saying, "if you use kerosene on your o-ring or x-ring chain, you will completely fuck it up!" This is just fear mongering, and even if well-intentioned, is crap behaviour that on many forums would see the post deleted and the person who posted it censured.

The good thing is, that it is relatively easy to separate urban myth from truth if you are preapared to do a little investigation.

Name and shame...

Sorry,I jumped to the last post

[Ixion]

its black at the moment... <_<

Green is the new black

[AllanB]

Lets all tell Skidmark she won't get pregnant if they do it standing up :love:

[Morepower]

Mate, I'm not sure if this is a myth or truth. You'd better have some reputable source to back this claim up.

I tend to agree , myth or not , using WD40 or CRC is a very controversial subject.

[NighthawkNZ]

Green is the new black

oh I thought that was last year :confused:

[The Stranger]

I tend to agree , myth or not , using WD40 or CRC is a very controversial subject.

Exactly the point.
It needn't be, but alas it is controversial, due to the uninformed ramblings of numerous cretins. If the cretins who don't know jack sut the hell up it wouldn't be.

[The Stranger]

And while I am lecturing....

I have an article in a bike mag... I will dig it out when I get home...
It is a test with near new late model sprot bike on a dyno, with 3 different BP octane rated petrols. There is from memory about 3% between best and worst.

A contributing factor in a modern bike is the Knock sensor that detects preignition that is more prevelent with low octane fuels. If preignition (detination) is sensed, timing and fueling is adjusted dropping the performance...this is more the case with lower octane fuels.

Now you need to decide, do I know what I am talking about or am I dribbling from a hole in my head?


Yes, no knock sensors for the big four. If there were likely exceptions, I'm picking they'd be the GTR1400 and Goldwing.

The Honda Blackbird came out in 97 with a knock sensor and they are still there on current models. 95 octane sees improved fuel economy over 91 and 98 sees a greater improvement again. So much so that it is cheaper to run the (injected model anyway) Blackbird on 95 or on 98 and you do get better low and mid response in each case.

I'm going to run with True.

[LBD]

The sky is green. 'strue. 'nuff said.

Only in Scotland where the weather is so shite the clouds grow moss....

[jrandom]

(A more effective and funny option is to open one of their back doors)

I'm going to find a car to do that to today.

:D

[ManDownUnder]

If the cretins who don't know jack shut the hell up ...

...KB would be pretty much void of new content in an instant...!

[MSTRS]

...KB would be pretty much void of new content in an instant...!
:shit:
My life flashed in front of my eyes, and for an instant there, I was tempted to open a vein. Yours.

[vifferman]

Mate, I'm not sure if this is a myth or truth. You'd better have some reputable source to back this claim up.
Do I need to go and cut'n'paste it from the thread it was in, or can you do that yourself?
Sorry - stupid question. :rolleyes:
Clicky. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1129363851#post1129363851)

[Pixie]

Or the classic:"A loud exhaust warns drivers I'm approaching"

In their sound proofed cars with sound systems blaring-yeah right

[The Stranger]

...KB would be pretty much void of new content in an instant...!

But, but... How then could I go fishing from the comfort of my lounge? Nooooooo.

[Pixie]

The seals in a chain will be resistant to petroleum products like Kerosene.

But unlike WD40 and diesel for that matter, kerosene is dry, penitrates sealed joints washes out any lubricant and evaporates off fully leaves the seal face dry.

It is essential that IF a chain is washed in Kerosene, a spray on lubricant like that in an aerosol can is used luberally. Spray lubricants use a cut back solvent that will penitrate a dry joint like that left after a kero wash.

A second point, is that a little lubricant on the oring seal also helps seal the joint. If that joint is dried out by washing in Kero, there is an increased risk of introducing abrasive particles when the seal/link moves around a sprocket, leading to premature chain wear.

Now you need to decide, do I know what I am talking about or am I bullshitting out a hole in my head?


Ever seen those pies in a celophane packet with labling that says..."Contents, one pie"

The last DID Oring chain I bought stated clearly on the box:"clean with kerosene and lubricate only with motor oil.Under no circumstances use aerosol motorcycle chain lubes".

[FROSTY]

We are very fortunate to have members such as Stranger, whose opinions ARE fact, so we are kept on the straight and narrow.Steve
Nope WRONG steve. Stranger doesn't always quote FACT Stranger often quotes his opinion based on his experience.
We have on occasion agreed to disagree on subjects of bike ride safety.
Both arguments have valid and well thought out reasoning behind them
Both points of view are situationally correct.

[Edbear]

Nope WRONG steve. Stranger doesn't always quote FACT Stranger often quotes his opinion based on his experience.
We have on occasion agreed to disagree on subjects of bike ride safety.
Both arguments have valid and well thought out reasoning behind them
Both points of view are situationally correct.

I like that bit! All we need now to work out is KB's situation....:jerry:

[FROSTY]

what I mean is for example I like to apply the KISS principle for newbee riders.
Stuff like --ride in the right wheel track and, if in doubt do nowt (on a slippery road)

Stranger takes a slightly different aproach

[sinfull]

Me, i never talk shit, only facts !
How's this weather huh ?? I gots me some new shoes !! Aint been riding much ! Need a shower, i can smell meself ! My dog has fleas ! I have several pieces of gym equipment, but yet I'm so unfit and totally unmotivated ! I Just scratched my arse and smelt me finger ! I'm bored !
Care what ppl think of me or what i have to say ? Not in the slightest !

[CookMySock]

Nope WRONG steve. Stranger doesn't always quote FACT Stranger often quotes his opinion based on his experience.
We have on occasion agreed to disagree on subjects of bike ride safety.
Both arguments have valid and well thought out reasoning behind them
Both points of view are situationally correct.I must apologise, as there is no "dripping with sarcasm" smiley, then you would (might?) have seen the real truth behind what I am saying.

What I'm saying of course, is the same thing that you are saying, and I will quote you ;


[some person] often quotes his opinion based on his experience. We have on occasion agreed to disagree on subjects of bike ride safety. Both arguments have valid and well thought out reasoning behind them. Both points of view are situationally correct.This I agree with you 100% completely and irrevocably on. You inadvertantly and accurately sum up the thread in a single sentence.

But Stranger, or you, or I, or anyone, does not have the final say on what is truth or not. The reader does.

See, we agree.


Steve

[Subike]

In all this about posting facts about what is right or wrong, truth or deception,
what is missing?
adaption and experiments.
Yes there are standard opinions and truths that should be accepted as fact,
like "you cant ride a bike sitting on it backwards" ( carver will say different)

Now, there are standards of mechanical engineering that we hold as fact,
Things we all know work and dont work, tyres put on wrong is suicide.
To accept johnnys experiance that he got better cornering out of his contikis by doing this and increased the mileage by 3000k. Obvious bullshit.

So, must we seek the truth of all things to be sure its fact and safe to do!

Then came along JOHN BRITTON

adaption, experiments NO8 teckowlagy are as much a part of this forum as the truth. Lets listen and learn rater than critisize and reject.

Now where is my purple Harpic toilet bowl cleaner, perfect for cleaning polished alloy.

[LBD]

The last DID Oring chain I bought stated clearly on the box:"clean with kerosene and lubricate only with motor oil.Under no circumstances use aerosol motorcycle chain lubes".

Follow the instructions on the packet....

On or off road?

[short-circuit]

But Stranger, or you, or I, or anyone, does not have the final say on what is truth or not. The reader does.

See, we agree.


Steve


That's not true Steve. You do speak the truth! And now I'm off to buy Hyosungs for my whole family, cause they fucken rock!

[Taz]

I tend to agree , myth or not , using WD40 or CRC is a very controversial subject.

Have always used WD40 on the chains of my MX and offroad bikes. No problems what so ever. But bike chain lube manufacturers wont be able to con you into buying their expensive chain wax's by letting you know that will they??

You should all use what you're comfortable using. That's why I only use Delo400 diesel oils in all my bikes.

Andy.

[Taz]

Things we all know work and dont work, tyres put on wrong is suicide.


I currently have a rear tyre on the front of one of my bikes and haven't died yet.

[allycatz]

Well being a predominately male site I guess one can expect at least some bullshit aye.....seriously though, in the quest to get my ample derriere back on a bike again and not just me scooter, I would have to say advice has been very encouraging so far :soon:

[Maha]

Well being a predominately male site I guess one can expect at least some bullshit aye.....seriously though, in the quest to get my ample derriere back on a bike again and not just me scooter, I would have to say advice has been very encouraging so far :soon:

The simple answer is, when you have been around long enough, you know exactly who is on the level and who you can take advice from.
Generally though, if you start a thread asking advice on a particular subject, the responses are helpful enough, but even then, some disagree with whats being said. If you ask for and receive advice on here, take what you can out of it and draw your own conclusions.

[Ixion]

I currently have a rear tyre on the front of one of my bikes and haven't died yet.

rear on the front? That's a tad unusual. Front on the rear is common.


..

You should all use what you're comfortable using. That's why I only use Delo400 diesel oils in all my bikes.

Andy.

Everybody does.

[martybabe]

Whilst it would be a shame to eradicate all the tongue in cheek humour on here. I have to agree some posts can be misleading....One that springs to mind is the post that advocated taking a plastic shopping bag with you on tour as it makes it easier to don water proof trousers etc.

It's the none specific 'etc' I object to, sure it's fine for getting your boot through your pants without snagging, even a wet gloved hand down the sleeve of an over jacket, top marks but you just try slipping your helmet on with a plastic bag over your head. I nearly bloody well suffocated to pieces and it's a right bastard trying to pull the bag out through the eye hole of your helmet I can tell you. :laugh:

[LBD]

rear on the front? That's a tad unusual. Front on the rear is common.
Everybody does.

If I recall correctly ...and I do stand to be corrected on this, ...the old TT100 tyres, which were one of THE tyres back then, had arrows for direction of rotation,,, If fitted on the front it should turn this way and if fitted on the back it should turn that way....

Any one confirm?

[NDORFN]

If you rub a womans clit three times to the left, slap her in the face and bark like a dog for three minutes your hair will turn green. I dare you to prove this is peddling bullshit as fact. Double dog dare ya!

[scumdog]

If you rub a womans clit three times to the left, slap her in the face and bark like a dog for three minutes your hair will turn green. I dare you to prove this is peddling bullshit as fact. Double dog dare ya!


I have alapeshia.

I ain't NEVER goin' ta have green hair.

[98tls]

If you rub a womans clit three times to the left, slap her in the face and bark like a dog for three minutes your hair will turn green. I dare you to prove this is peddling bullshit as fact. Double dog dare ya! Or simply try the "Donkey punch",though it may well be your last it will be memorable.

[NDORFN]

WTF is the "Donkey punch"??? Sounds like fun...

[98tls]

WTF is the "Donkey punch"??? Sounds like fun... Ever shagged a chick with a bad cough?

[scumdog]

WTF is the "Donkey punch"??? Sounds like fun...

Yah dunno what a 'donkey punch' is??

Where did ya do yer love-makin'?

The Cuba Mall??

[NDORFN]

Ever shagged a chick with a bad cough?

Yeah my wife, bad cough or not. Still not getting it... You're not peddling bullshit as fact are you?

[98tls]

Yeah my wife, bad cough or not. Still not getting it... You're not peddling bullshit as fact are you? As you say "still not getting it".Try this,imagine you have normal diameter dick,your shagging your Mrs who coughs.......get it?

[scumdog]

As you say "still not getting it".Try this,imagine you have normal diameter dick,your shagging your Mrs who coughs.......get it?

Maybe ya should shag his mrs to show him...:msn-wink:

[NDORFN]

Aaaaah yeah I get it. She has a tendancy to cough right after... and yeah... she's a KB member so that's enough of that. Got me thinking though... ever sneezed while taking a piss? Wholey shit man.

[scumdog]

Aaaaah yeah I get it. She has a tendancy to cough right after... and yeah... she's a KB member so that's enough of that. Got me thinking though... ever sneezed while taking a piss? Wholey shit man.

Keep the pepper beside the bed...<_<

[NDORFN]

Maybe ya should shag his mrs to show him...:msn-wink:

While you watch and pretend you're Brad Shipton?

[scumdog]

While you watch and pretend you're Brad Shipton?

Only pretend??

[98tls]

While you watch and pretend you're Brad Shipton? Fail........epic fail.Its not about pretending.

[NDORFN]

Fail........epic fail.Its not about pretending.

It's a lady's perogative to fantisize. Come on dude.

[Motu]

the old TT100 tyres, which were one of THE tyres back then, had arrows for direction of rotation,,, If fitted on the front it should turn this way and if fitted on the back it should turn that way....


I don't think it was front or rear,just a rotational arrow.It was just because of the construction - a lap joint in the tread.I never saw a tyre come apart,no matter what the abuse.Tyres like the TT100 and K70 were for front or rear.....so I can say I have a front tyre on the back,and a back tyre on the front.

[2wheeldrifter]

Fact is............ bullshit is on here :shutup:





Which all depends on how you take it.... at your discretion at the end of the day :sunny:

[boman]

I don't think it was front or rear,just a rotational arrow.It was just because of the construction - a lap joint in the tread.I never saw a tyre come apart,no matter what the abuse.Tyres like the TT100 and K70 were for front or rear.....so I can say I have a front tyre on the back,and a back tyre on the front.

A few Avons had the same, Super venoms from memory, Rotate this way on front and this way on rear. It was to protect the splice on the tread.

[SARGE]

Aren't you supposed to provide supporting evidence now?

:corn:

The fact that a Honda is being ridden is evidence enough

[Insanity_rules]

... ever sneezed while taking a piss? Wholey shit man.

Yes and the ceiling above the urinal at the black harp will never be the same again, not to mention the guy standing beside me.