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dpex
20th August 2009, 19:34
This goes on a bit, but bare with me. I think that within a kernel of sense prevails.

Firstly. There's like 1.4 cops to every ten thousand drivers. Thus the chances of any driver being caught being an idiot or an arsehole is like on the improbability scale.

But who sees idiot or arsehole drivers, daily? Answer. Other drivers. What do they do when they see idiots and arseholes? They either get a dose of road-rage, call *555 for no good reason cos there's no enforcers out there, or just boil with rage.

But arsehole and idiot drivers don't become so occasionally. They are what they are. An so they daily wander around the highways and byways, being arseholes and/or idiots. You see them. I see them. We are powerless to do anything about them.

But what would be the case if the Gov agreed licencing say, 10,000 regular road-users to formally report bad or stupid behaviour?

What would be the case if the same group in fact reported good behaviour?

Over a period the bad-behavourists would clock up a tally, yet no cop has clocked them till, one day, a cop does. The issue goes to court. The judge looks at the report from the 'informal' group of watchers. who, individually, have observed this cretin doing all manner of stupid thing.

And so, the judge asserts, 'Mr Dickhead. Although you're here today to answer a charge of exceeding the speed-limit by 15Kph, I note there are five sightings of you acting like a dickhead. You sir, are to get the max fine.'

The next prole goes up, also accused of exceeding the limit by 15Ks. The judge asserts, 'I see here, Mr ordinary, that you have had no sightings from the road watchers. Well done. good driving. Keep it up. Discharged.'

So who are the road watchers? I have named them Road Knights. They are regular drivers who have to pass some level of test to ensure they're not too anti-Asian, anti, women, anti anything....although through the effluction of time, it wouldn't matter with the computer programme I have in mind to drive this process.

The idea is, the Road Knights, ordinary citizens on th road, would simply report behaviour, both good and bad, to a central agency, by email, using some simple quantifying code. But they're not cops and their reports cannot be used, substantively in a court of law, but they could sure as hell give a judge a much better appreciation of the dude/dudess before him/her.

Sure, it will take some time before an arsehole or idiot's profile became clear, but we have to start somewhere.

But then there's the reward process. The carrot. Imagine a boy racer getting a letter from the ministry, along these lines.

Dear sir,

On January 15th a Road Knight observed you giving way to another driver at a time when he/she should have given way to you. We wish to thank you for your valuable input into road safety.

Imagine the look on the boy-racer's face when he got such a letter. 'Fuck! Someone actually noticed me being good!'

Do you think such a thing would incentivise the boy-racer to get another such letter? Given that probably he has ever only got negative feedback from the day he was born?

Then add to that. 'Dear Boy Racer, due to you being observed acting in a very civilised manner we hereby credit you with two parking tickets and one speeding ticket. We appreciate your efforts.

Now go to the next leg. Annuallly, most folk don't have accidents, but their time might be coming due to lack of concentration. How do you remind them to concentrate? Beta them up with misery ads? or write to them and ram it home.

Dear Mr O'Hagey.

We note you have completed yet another year, accident free. You are now entitled to a 20% reduction in regsitrastion fees, you will be allowed three free parking tickets, one speeding ticket and the included ten dollar voucher from the Warehouse.

Next.

Dear Mr/Mrs Driver,

If you complete the driving course offered at.....you will be entitled to a 50% reduction in registration fees for your vehicle for the next two years. However, if, within those two years, you become engaged in any form of accident, this offer will be withdrawn and you will be required to pay twice the fee.

Next. Licence grades.

As of tomorrow everyone starts with a black licence. Go one year accident free and you go up to a bronze. Go two years and your up to silver. Go fiver years and you're on gold.

Now go backwards.

Gold licence holders can speed with impunity. Now then, before you scream, think about what it takes to become a gold-class licence holder.

Silver. We catch you doing more than???? and you get fined.

Bronze. Slow learner, huh. We caught you being an idiot. You now have a black licence and we're taking your car/bike/truck/bus off you for 28 days.

Black. 'You really can't see the plan, eh? We're taking your car/bike, bus to the crusher.'

And the whole plan is based upon being accident-free. It's not based upon being no-fault, accident free, but accident free. It takes two to create a crash. Don't get in one. Do all you can to avoid and all of a sudden the rewards come your way.

You see? Reward works way better than punishment.

And all the above is just a small fraction of the scheme I have devised. But can I get any Gummint Minster to listen.

Hell no.

I wonder why.

MaxCannon
20th August 2009, 20:49
Don't think it will work.

If the powers that be were serious about the road toll they would focus on teaching people how to drive better.

- Raise the driving age (yes the farmers will complain - tough luck)
- Lower the alcohol limit
- Make the test harder, much harder. All my driving tests were so easy it was laughable.
- Before you can sit the test you must pass a vehicle control course
- Before you can sit the test you must pass a theory test that tests everything in the road code
- Your license lasts for 15 years - then you sit a refresher. 3 attempts to pass the refresher test. If you fail it's a buss pass for 2 weeks before you can resit.

If you hand out licenses like a pedophile handing out sweets you shouldn't be surprised that people crash lots - most of them don't know how to control a vehicle properly and barely understand the road rules.

Katman
20th August 2009, 21:02
Road Knights?????...........

Rotflmfao! :killingme

newbould
20th August 2009, 21:17
I agree with all three posts, esp Katman's
The reason no-one is listening to the first idea is it's too complicated to write down - but you don't need to understand it for your behaviour to change.
The reproting system is already there - web based reporting of bad driving and the owner of the car gets a bad boy letter - provided the reporter of said behaviour gets their details right.

It all sounds a bit like red and blue rep on some well known web sites.

Mom
20th August 2009, 21:27
That does not go on a bit at all.

I got rotflmao :killingme

Want to break that down into smaller bites so some of us with longer attention spans can actually take it in?

psycho22
21st August 2009, 12:01
Don't think it will work.

If the powers that be were serious about the road toll they would focus on teaching people how to drive better.



I agree completely. Bikers have to do a basic handling skills test, (which was just a bit too easy) how come people getting 1L's don't?

How come we have engine restrictions (which I now have to admit are really quite a good thing) but 1L's and 1R's don't?

Maybe engine restrictions aren't the way to go for cars but perhaps a power restriction. If I had the money I could go out and buy a car that would be just as dangerous as a bigger bike would be to me.

onearmedbandit
21st August 2009, 12:11
Are these RoadKnights observing the actual driver/rider, or just the vehicle? And if you say the registered owner is liable what's to stop hardcore offenders registering vehicles in their partners/siblings/elderly mothers name?

How long would this information stay on your record? 2yrs? 5yrs? 10yrs? forever?

Also you must remmber that not all accidents involve the offender, sometimes they escape scott-free leaving the carnage behind them.

onearmedbandit
21st August 2009, 12:15
Oh yeah, the Road Knights are a South Island supremecist gang. Might want to rethink that name lol.

Ixion
21st August 2009, 12:21
Road Knights? Like, these dudes ?

OK by me, but will they have a lot of credibility with the judges?

onearmedbandit
21st August 2009, 12:31
This isn't going to work at all, the RoadKnight in that picture is breaking the law himself by not displaying a visible registration plate. Who's going to watch the Roadknights?

On that note however, the enforcers who ensure that 'black licence' holders are not driving could be called BlackPower.

Ixion
21st August 2009, 12:35
This isn't going to work at all, the RoadKnight in that picture is breaking the law himself by not displaying a visible registration plate. Who's going to watch the Roadknights?

On that note however, the enforcers who ensure that 'black licence' holders are not driving could be called BlackPower.

Well, obviously as the Road Knights are *almost* perfect, those who watch them would have to be perfect angels. Hells Angels, in fact .

So the idea is we replace the traffic cops with Hells Angels? Have I got that right?

I think I'm starting to like this scheme.

onearmedbandit
21st August 2009, 12:42
Perfect. Well almost. There is always the chance of corruption, even amongst the Hells Angels. Corruption is a dirty crime, filthy you could say. Now we'd only need a a small group looking after this area. I give you the Filthy Few.

Ixion
21st August 2009, 12:46
Surely the Filthy Few would be the crew who do what is now handled by Motorway Support?

MSTRS
21st August 2009, 12:53
10,000? I think 61 should be sufficient. On the highways. Work it out.

onearmedbandit
21st August 2009, 13:00
Surely the Filthy Few would be the crew who do what is now handled by Motorway Support?

I had the Undertakers pegged for that position.

imdying
21st August 2009, 13:08
Right now, every gang with Google Alerts set up is getting emails bringing them to this thread :D

Winston001
21st August 2009, 13:13
But who sees idiot or arsehole drivers, daily? Answer. Other drivers. What do they do when they see idiots and arseholes?

They either get a dose of road-rage, call *555 for no good reason cos there's no enforcers out there, or just boil with rage.


Nice to see some thinking out of the box Dpex.

The *555 system does work. My mates wife was convicted of careless use for dangerous overtaking after a *555 report. I reported a car once crossing double yellow lines high speed at night on the brow of a hill. By the time the police caught up though, it turned out to be a rental car and the driver was back in Sydney. Still, can't complain.

Ixion
21st August 2009, 14:45
I had the Undertakers pegged for that position.


I guess. With some support from the Coffin Cheaters.

If it all gets too bad, everybody can go home to their Mothers.

StoneY
21st August 2009, 14:51
nice idea- BUT- you realise that 'the ROAD KNIGHTS' are that gang that have been burning out mob houses and being burnt out in retaliation- bad name choice bro-

And as the MAN cant even consolodate the current computer systems they have through from the dos based helpdesk and network apps- to modern OS's and systems- where would all this Data get collaborated- compiled- and analysed?

What extra fees go on our licensing for this one?

Nice thought- cant see it working

dpex
23rd August 2009, 19:50
Let's see if I can make this a bit more clear.

Firstly, the Road Knights would have to pass some form of computer-sieved attitude test. The test would be designed to sort out the ordinary bloke on the street from the 17th century 'confession-getters'.

Just ordinary folk who go about their business and observe as they drive.

Naturally, the possibility exists for some of these to have or get a particular dose of angst against a driver.

However, the computer programme I have in mind would soon flag such 'targeted' angst.

Here's how that bit works. Ordinary Harry gets a snitch on Boy-Racer Bill. He reports regularly. But then the programme asks, 'Which other RK has reported Bill?' Answer, only one, maybe two over a year. Thus Harry's reports on Billy Boy Racer are deemed tainted.

Don't forget, we're talking about 10,000 ordinary drivers, doing ordinary things, who simply observe and report the good and the bad.

Yeah, sure, there's bound to be the odd twerp driving someone else's vehicle, but I suspect that's a relatively rare event. But in any event, if the owner, who was not the driver, got a letter, good or bad, that person would be in a position to react...angrily or fondly.

You see, the value of the Road Knights concept is, these folk expand surveillance by a factor of 500 over the current cop force.

All they would do is report what they observe.

Upon the day a particular malefactor arrives in court his/her Road Knights record is produced. No sightings means the perp in front of the court is just an ordinary Joe caught out. Several 'good' sightings, where Joe has been a considerate driver, would also be there. Two or three, or ten bad sightings says Joe is an arsehole who simply hasn't been caught by a cop, till today.

And so, for Joe one, the court tells him he's been a bit silly, but don't do it again. For Joe two, the court says that's okay, you have two speeding tickets in credit. Have anice day, Joe.

Joe three. Now here's the guy/girl we have to find. "You have three Road Knight notifications for appalling driving. The charge today is careless driving. Yeah, Joe. I think we now know you're a loose cannon. Convicted and fined heaps!'

The thing is, this system would take a while to get up a head of steam, but once it did, no driver could ever traverse our roads, in any way he/she felt fit, simply because no cop car was in sight.

You see, Road Knight reports, on a specific driver, would build over a period, maybe two or three years. But the fact is, arseholes are arseholes. Their spots don't change. It's the arseholes we have to target.

Do you think Joe Arsehole would be so if he thought that the vehicle ahead, behind, two bind, three ahead, sitting on the side of the road, carried a Road Knight?

It's not about 'enforcement'. It's about observation.

And I'd bet the insurance companies would fund such a scheme. After all, they would be the greatest beneficiaries of a scheme which finally brought to light the driving habits of those they insure.

I'm not suggesting the Road Knights report speeding (unless it's really excessive or stupid). For example, a RK might observe a biker doing way above the limit on the Waikato Flats. Ho hum. No real danger there. But then next day he/she sees some dick shooting through a Primary School zone. Now there's a dick!

Do you all have a vague understanding of what I'm on about here? It's all about profiling. Enough reports will profile any driver in the land; good and bad.

And surely, the good ones should get some credit. And if the offer of credit fro being good is on the table, then many will go for the credit.

This whole issue is a bit like our perception of youth crime-rates. All we ever get to hear, read, and see is the bad-arses. One bad-ares robs a dairy while, at the same time tens of thousands of good-arses where in school going hard out, or playing netball, hockey, football, you name them. But the media doesn't report them, because of one simple missive. The media know, "If it bleeds, we print."

Then we get bad-arse parents; like one in ten thousand. While the other million parents are putting out to be as good as they can. But the good ones don't feature on TV because there's no news in being good, only bad.

The Road Knights would, over a period, make multiple observations of both the good and the bad, and in that way, slowly profile many drivers. Thus such reports would create a 'trend'.

It's the bad-arse 'trend' we need to remove from our roads. Not the occasional malefactor.

Genestho
23rd August 2009, 20:17
Er, yea.

Hey listen. I can see where you're coming from.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by our current Govt's thinking. I'm becoming very impressed, they are listening so far.

*555 does work, I have definate feedback that it does. If there are cars available - there have been some very dangerous drivers removed and charged directly through this service.

If you want to lay charges, you need to go into your local police station.

I'm a bit confused over your "software" suggestion, what would be wrong if Harry does report bad driving multiple times? If you cover alot of miles or live in an area where there are multiple dopey/dangerous/drunk drivers (I do!) then why not report multiple times?

I've reported drink drivers multiple times, I may indeed be biased, but they were indeed drunk.
Problem? I think not:cool:

duckonin
23rd August 2009, 20:31
My finger is up to be road knight number one.:first: If I had the power today coming back home from Albany the tickets would all have to go to those talking or texting on their BLOODY PHONES ....120 clicks on the motorway and the dick right next to us crossed the center line almost taking out the side of our car, he was on the phone....in total five idgits were using phones...