Six of the best - a punishment thread

[Fatt Max]

So, anyway.....

All that bollocks about the big deal made over a few slaps at a school rugby match and the typical 'touchy feeley' way it was handled......see other threads...

But, me and a few of the boys were discussing over a pie and a pint as to how punishment was dished out at school when we were caught acting the dickhead.

Nowadays, these little pricks can expect no more than a seat at a 30 minute focus group plus a pamphlet on anger management for just about burning the fucking school down.

The headmaster at the school I tried to avoid all those years ago in London was......well.....a fucking maniac. His favoured form of dishing the biff was six whacks with a football boot, studs in. I got spanked that many times my arse ended up looking like a golf ball...mind you, it was'nt exactly a small target......

So, how were you punished in the good ole days before the fucking yanks and Oprah decided to tell everyone who to lead a PC.....

[MIXONE]

We had one teacher who was definitely a sadist.He would make us bend over with our heads under a desk and then cane us.Wack on the arse and then bonk the head.

[slofox]

We had a sliding scale of punishment for spelling mistakes...

Those who were good at spelling (like I was) got two whacks over the arse with the cane per mistake.
Those who were average spellers got one whack per mistake.
Those who were poor spellers only got one whack per mistake.

Seemed to me at the time that ability wasn't worth the extra arse whacking...:spanking:


In general the schools I went to all used canes to belt kids, either on the hand or the bum. We used to keep count by putting notches in the desk lids...mind you, one end of term some bright spark got hold of the cane and hacked it up into little short lengths..now he DID get an arse-whacking - once they got another cane...

[javawocky]

In saffer land it was the good old cane up till recently when Opera came into power.

Normally two for not doing your homework to 6 of the best for serious stuff like brawling at rugby games <_<

Once I was waiting for my dishing out of wacks when I overheard the guy in front of me getting shouted at. Apparently he had hung out side the train doors between stations when riding home one day and got caught. It was a friday so the teacher said, that's it you are getting 6 of the best, but you have to come back on monday to get them.:wari:

btw its beer 'o clock :apint:

[martybabe]

A huge variance in style and ability for us all to enjoy, as I recall....

TD teacher: Hand of offender placed on desk and given the opportunity to whisk it away before the ruler slammed down on the knuckles, best of three attempts. If you refused you got the slipper, if you failed you got the slipper, if you won you got the slipper for cheating :no:

PE teacher: offender made to hang by arms from wall bars in gym. If you could hang long enough for him to get bored he'd throw a medicine ball at your unprotected stomach and or bullwhackers, at which point you would fall about six feet to the floor and break something. :crybaby:

The head master or beak: Not a very imaginative man, six of the best with a cane on the buttocks. :mellow:

The prefect: A metal spanner whacked on top of your head although the perpetrator later ceased this barbaric practice after I hung him up on a coat peg and beat the living crap out of him :Punk:

I make that, authority figures 3, Martybabe 1, although I did actually get the cane for making the prefect cry :no:

Ah yes, school days, the best days of your life, all the pilchards you could eat, a nice little cap with a button on the top and a weekly beating, whether you needed it or not.

P.S., If any of my former teachers are reading this, PM me please, I'd love to meet up, best of three chances to escape from my axe suit ya, you sadistic mother fuckin cowards. :bash:

Phew, I feel better now, thanks Max! :D

[ynot slow]

We had a tech drawing teacher/enginerring teacher with an attitude.One day a guy was cheeky and teacher had his period,so took said kid outside,another laughed,so teacher told him to go to washroom,another snigger and another victim,this happened numerous times,teacher would say ah 7,like to cane even numbers,so I volunteered,in the end the whole class was in washroom,he gave us a warning.15 kids to cane was too many.

[smoky]

Razor strap was the most common at home, wooden spoon, coat hanger, belt, a bar of soap in a sock, rolling pin, fire place poker, broom handle, jug cord

Then at school it was the strap or the cane, or a padder tennis bat

It was a bloody free for all





I don't smack my kids with anything - but they're better kids than I was

[wickle]

Strap at Primary School,
Cane at High School.
. a fond memior is one day a school a teacher drew a chalk line down my face, I rub it off got a slap around ear for this, my brother told Dad , that weekend teacher was cycling past home Dad walked out on to road grabbed centre of handle bars, bike stopped teacher kept going!!!! Dad told him never to lay a hand on any of his kids again.

[Fatt Max]

Strap at Primary School,
Cane at High School.
. a fond memior is one day a school a teacher drew a chalk line down my face, I rub it off got a slap around ear for this, my brother told Dad , that weekend teacher was cycling past home Dad walked out on to road grabbed centre of handle bars, bike stopped teacher kept going!!!! Dad told him never to lay a hand on any of his kids again.

Fucking hell......brilliant....!!

[tri boy]

Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Still relevant today.
(not that anyone is listening)
Straps n canes cause less pain and suffering than being fucked up the arse by 8-10 prison mates because you never learnt how to behave/act in society.(so I'm told)

[Motu]

In the 3rd form we had a maths test every day,everyone who failed was caned.I have recently discovered I am dyscalculiac...dyslexia with numbers - so I was caned everyday at maths.We used to notch our belts,I got halfway round....some guys were on their second belt,after notching both sides.

All I learned from capital punishment was not to get caught - this skill has helped me considerably throughout my life.

[AllanB]

At high school there was a teacher who had been banned from caning - he had used a fibreglass fishing rod on a young mans arse and drew blood ......

He proudly displayed the rod on the wall behind his desk.


We also had a music teacher interested in boys arses - it was just another 'rod' that he was interested in whacking around their butts. Years later I see his name in the courts section of the paper - he was being put away for hiding his sausage up some young lads date-hole.

[Motu]

They weren't allowed to draw blood on a caning,and they knew how far to push.So the number of whacks wasn't a guide to the pain,more the severity of the offence.I once had blood drawn with 2 whacks,and I nearly passed out....I didn't push the offense on the teachers side,as the next step was to be expelled - and that was the real fear.My mother would have been mortified (dunno a stronger word) if I was expelled from school.We were having the education she was denied - going to highschool was living her dream.It didn't matter if we passed School Cert or went higher in our education,just to send her kids to high school was important to her....and we knew it.

[StoneY]

Mum gave up on wooden spoons- they kept breaking (what she expect my ass got hard a a muay thai fighters shin form daily attention!)

In my day- AHD or ADD or whatever was never heard of, 'hyper' kids like me got the strap/dog leash/cane/spoon/jug cord or whatever till we conformed

And I am FINE i tell u- fuckin fine and you BETTER (twitch) believe it! Or ELSE YOU HEAR!
:2guns::jerry::jerry::jerry::jerry::stupid:

[SixPackBack]

Violence begets violence. Corporal punishment was stopped for a good reason.

[tri boy]

Violence begets violence. Corporal punishment was stopped for a good reason.
Bollocks.
It was stopped because too many sheila's got into the education system.

[SixPackBack]

you have to question if those that reminisce so fondly about corporal punishment got some sort of sexual gratification having their arses caned.

Was bad alright, gave us honda riders, fags and coppers.....

[Winston001]

All that bollocks about the big deal made over a few slaps at a school rugby match and the typical 'touchy feeley' way it was handled......see other threads...

Nowadays, these little pricks can expect no more than a seat at a 30 minute focus group plus a pamphlet on anger management for just about burning the fucking school down.


In reality some of these boys were suspended from rugby for 16 months. That's far far tougher than getting six strokes. In fact too tough IMHO - we never see first class players getting suspensions like that.

Anyway, as a general rule I'm opposed to physical punishment of children. However I'll admit that for a lot of boys at high school, a few strokes of the cane would be an effective punishment. Quick, painful, and done with.

I remember being caned at boarding school. Most of the masters weren't sadistic and just relied on the threat. Can recall once being a smart-alec and getting caned. My mistake was I was wearing school dress trousers at the time - damn that hurt. Might as well have been in my jocks. :jerry:

[smoky]

Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Still relevant today.
(not that anyone is listening)
Straps n canes cause less pain and suffering than being fucked up the arse by 8-10 prison mates because you never learnt how to behave/act in society.(so I'm told)

Firstly I take it you meant to quote the bible, not Samuel Butler 1660ish
from a poem about the civil war - Spare the rod (that was used to load the black powder charge) and spare the child (don't shoot the young boy sent into war)

the quote from Proverbs you probably meant to quote is "He that spares the rod, hates his son."

you can find a lot of things in the bible that are taken out of context or suffered from politically charged poor translation. This quote was only ever translated using the word 'rod' in the 1500's - before that the word that was translated as 'rood'; a kind of shield or screen, or a special blessing that a father put on their son. A later catholic use of the word is 'out working of the cross' being the place of redemption and His redemptive cover over the saints

But don't let facts stop you from using this so called quote, to justify the violence used against children thru the generations

I'm not against smacking - but if you think you need to take up a weapon to beat your child with - I think you miss the point of parenting

Just my opinion - but what do I know

[Kiwi Graham]

I had a healthy respect for my headmaster, stood outside his door on a few occasions and felt his wrath on a couple (cane). Also had a local cop in my moped days (FS1E) who pulled me and a few mates over for hooning round town (as you do), made us take out our spark plugs, clipped one and all smartly round the ear and told us to push our bikes back to find said spark plugs on the gate posts. looking back I dont have a problem with any of it.

[Maha]

Strap at Primary School,
Cane at High School.
. a fond memior is one day a school a teacher drew a chalk line down my face, I rub it off got a slap around ear for this, my brother told Dad , that weekend teacher was cycling past home Dad walked out on to road grabbed centre of handle bars, bike stopped teacher kept going!!!! Dad told him never to lay a hand on any of his kids again.


And the sad part is, the teachers in my day had fucking names for the strap or cane...one teacher at High School would make you put your head under the Fire Hose real and then cane ya. Your head was not ment to be touching the Hose real, about three inches gap was required beacause, what was the reaction when you get caned? thats right, stand up.

[ynot slow]

Violence begets violence. Corporal punishment was stopped for a good reason.

Disagree with that comment.My grandad was beaten as a kid,had boiling water thrown over his head,this now days is a classic case of post natal depression from his mum.He should've been the most abusive father or poppa,never hit his kids or us grandkids.Likewise dad never hit us,mum did the odd time(dad usually working lol)but we deserved it,and never with a weapon,only her hand and a whack on bum.

Have a retired teacher who is a good family friend,taught me in high school,he said it went downhill when corporal punishment was outlawed.He was coach of rugby team,even buying boots for a few kids whose parents were hopeless,they went on to play rep and maori grade to high level,this was 20 yrs ago.He was never assaulted at school by pupils,until the day they banned corporal punishment.He was assaulted a couple of times,and once by a girl(big one),the school told the parents whose reply was can he play in 1st 15 this weekend?

[tri boy]

Firstly I take it you meant to quote the bible, not Samuel Butler 1660ish
from a poem about the civil war - Spare the rod (that was used to load the black powder charge) and spare the child (don't shoot the young boy sent into war)

the quote from Proverbs you probably meant to quote is "He that spares the rod, hates his son."


Nah mate. I don't read the bible, and I sure as hell only fire one cannon, and it lives in my mucka's.
take the phrase as the way it reads.
If you spare the rod, (ie stick, cane, thatch) then you are spoiling the childs chance to learn about boundaries and crossing them without learning about consequences properly. Ma used the phrase after she flogged me with the leather dog lead.

[Mom]

Disagree with that comment.My grandad was beaten as a kid,had boiling water thrown over his head,this now days is a classic case of post natal depression from his mum.He should've been the most abusive father or poppa,never hit his kids or us grandkids.Likewise dad never hit us,mum did the odd time(dad usually working lol)but we deserved it,and never with a weapon,only her hand and a whack on bum.

I agree! If that were true then there was no hope for me raised the way I was. I should by rights be a total thug.

I am pleased that corporal punishment has been removed from schools. Not because the odd, short, sharp reminder of what is ok and what is not is bad, but because it gave some very sadistic teachers an avenue to get their jollies at the pain and humilliation of children.

There are some kids that are raised in a home where a beating is normal. So you get "the bash", so what! You go to school and dont give a shit, and lo and behold you get "the bash" for your attitude and behaviour. You go home and you get more of the same. Eventually the school contacts home about your behaviour, you get home from school and get "the bash" because you play up at school.

[PrincessBandit]

I have a very lovely looking diamante studded riding crop on my tard-me watchlist. Not too many takers here then......

[Gareth51]

All I learned from capital punishment was not to get caught - this skill has helped me considerably throughout my life.

Another life skill lost to todays generation

[smoky]

Nah mate. I don't read the bible, .....
take the phrase as the way it reads.
If you spare the rod, (ie stick, cane, thatch) then you are spoiling the childs chance to learn about boundaries and crossing them without learning about consequences properly. Ma used the phrase after she flogged me with the leather dog lead.

Most people are quoting the bible when they use that 'phrase', but fair enough


My grandad was beaten as a kid,........He should've been the most abusive father or poppa,never hit his kids or us grandkids.Likewise dad never hit us, mum did the odd time(dad usually working lol)but we deserved it,and never with a weapon,only her hand and a whack on bum.

I agree - just because some one was abused as a child does not automatically mean they'll abuse.
But there is a huge link, and an overwhelming number of people who were abused who do go on to abuse

I don't have a problem with the normal ol smack, but like you said 'not with a weapon'


Have a retired teacher who is a good family friend,taught me in high school,he said it went downhill when corporal punishment was outlawed.He was coach of rugby team,even buying boots for a few kids whose parents were hopeless,they went on to play rep and maori grade to high level,this was 20 yrs ago.He was never assaulted at school by pupils,until the day they banned corporal punishment.He was assaulted a couple of times,and once by a girl(big one),the school told the parents whose reply was can he play in 1st 15 this weekend?

That's terrible

But My dad taught at one of the worst High schools in NZ, they abolished corporal punishment way before any law, they found it was ineffective with kids who get beaten up by experts on a regular basis at home

[smoky]

I have a very lovely looking diamante studded riding crop on my tard-me watchlist. Not too many takers here then......

You may get a few takers if you offer to use it on them for the first time - there's some sicko's around

[DougB]

I still have my cane, it has red taped end I used to tell the boys it was so the blood would not show. It has a name 'whistling rufus' I could walk into a classroom making a swishing sound with it and say "Whistling Rufus is feeling well today boys"

I seldom ever used it and usualy only for breaches of safety rules in the engineering workshop. I would never cane a delinquent boy as it would not help him or me. A short sharp punishment seemed to do no harm to a mentaly healthy lad and got the crime paid for in short order, no time wasting detentions or lines. Sometimes a child would ask for the cane instead of a detention to get it over with. I never complied.

During teacher training I was put to observe a woodwork teacher at Pasadena Intermediate school. When he wanted a class situation to do a demonstration he would say "Form a class last one up gets the strap"
The rush to the front was spectacular to watch but dangerous. I expected to see the kids going over top of the benches.

I never had any trouble with class control I treated each person with respect and got it in return. I was in country schools and knew the Pakeha pupils parents and, most importantly the Maori kids grandmothers, and their blood lines so I could show nesessary respect to the tribal chiefs children. I knew that no Maori would show up a chiefs child so they had to be educated before any of the others would learn anything. Most of the Maori offenders today did not have the benifit of their grandmothers guidance (their parents shifted to work in the city and had no idea of how grandmothers bought up children) nor do they relate to or know about their tribal values.

I seem to be rambling - better get to bed - a Big Bikes ride in Hamilton tomorrow afternoon.

[LBD]

Anyway, as a general rule I'm opposed to physical punishment of children. However I'll admit that for a lot of boys at high school, a few strokes of the cane would be an effective punishment. Quick, painful, and done with.

I remember being caned at boarding school. Most of the masters weren't sadistic and just relied on the threat. Can recall once being a smart-alec and getting caned. My mistake was I was wearing school dress trousers at the time - damn that hurt. Might as well have been in my jocks. :jerry:

You have just gone down in my estem....I thought you would have been smart enough to stuff an exersize book down the seat of yer pants...

I am opposed to excessive physical punishment of children...and don't ask me quantify excessive...but I condone a smack to that soft fleshy part of the anatomy that seems purpose built for that treatment, on occasions.

Don't know if I would call boys at high school children so much, I agree with your sentiments on quick and swift...over and done with.

My mum only seldom strapped me...leather dog collar...blue (Dont know why I remember that.)

My Dad only once...with his hand, I deserved it...and he made it count. The upshot is, because it was seldom, when it did happen it meant so much more

[SixPackBack]

I still have my cane, it has red taped end I used to tell the boys it was so the blood would not show. It has a name 'whistling rufus' I could walk into a classroom making a swishing sound with it and say "Whistling Rufus is feeling well today boys"

I seldom ever used it and usualy only for breaches of safety rules in the engineering workshop. I would never cane a delinquent boy as it would not help him or me. A short sharp punishment seemed to do no harm to a mentaly healthy lad and got the crime paid for in short order, no time wasting detentions or lines. Sometimes a child would ask for the cane instead of a detention to get it over with. I never complied.

During teacher training I was put to observe a woodwork teacher at Pasadena Intermediate school. When he wanted a class situation to do a demonstration he would say "Form a class last one up gets the strap"
The rush to the front was spectacular to watch but dangerous. I expected to see the kids going over top of the benches.

I never had any trouble with class control I treated each person with respect and got it in return. I was in country schools and knew the Pakeha pupils parents and, most importantly the Maori kids grandmothers, and their blood lines so I could show nesessary respect to the tribal chiefs children. I knew that no Maori would show up a chiefs child so they had to be educated before any of the others would learn anything. Most of the Maori offenders today did not have the benifit of their grandmothers guidance (their parents shifted to work in the city and had no idea of how grandmothers bought up children) nor do they relate to or know about their tribal values.

I seem to be rambling - better get to bed - a Big Bikes ride in Hamilton tomorrow afternoon.

You sound like a psychopath, and for a teacher your spelling and grammar is shocking!:no:

[short-circuit]

I still have my cane, it has red taped end I used to tell the boys it was so the blood would not show. It has a name 'whistling rufus' I could walk into a classroom making a swishing sound with it and say "Whistling Rufus is feeling well today boys"

I seldom ever used it and usualy only for breaches of safety rules in the engineering workshop. I would never cane a delinquent boy as it would not help him or me. A short sharp punishment seemed to do no harm to a mentaly healthy lad and got the crime paid for in short order, no time wasting detentions or lines. Sometimes a child would ask for the cane instead of a detention to get it over with. I never complied.

During teacher training I was put to observe a woodwork teacher at Pasadena Intermediate school. When he wanted a class situation to do a demonstration he would say "Form a class last one up gets the strap"
The rush to the front was spectacular to watch but dangerous. I expected to see the kids going over top of the benches.

I never had any trouble with class control I treated each person with respect and got it in return. I was in country schools and knew the Pakeha pupils parents and, most importantly the Maori kids grandmothers, and their blood lines so I could show nesessary respect to the tribal chiefs children. I knew that no Maori would show up a chiefs child so they had to be educated before any of the others would learn anything. Most of the Maori offenders today did not have the benifit of their grandmothers guidance (their parents shifted to work in the city and had no idea of how grandmothers bought up children) nor do they relate to or know about their tribal values.

I seem to be rambling - better get to bed - a Big Bikes ride in Hamilton tomorrow afternoon.

You got compliance through fear. I agree with SPB - you need help

[smoky]

...for a teacher your spelling and grammar is shocking!:no:
I was having a good laugh at that myself, must not of been paying attention at teacher training college


You sound like a psychopath,

I think he was merely a product of his generation.

Given the shyte about tribes and chiefs I'm guessing he was teaching in the early 1900's - making him just shy of 100 now
Explains why he rides an over sized scooter


:whistle:

[sinfull]

Where the hell do you two get off saying that ?

Give you two a keyboard and your tearing strips off someone for an honest post which clearly stated he used it seldom in his career !

I'd hate to see iether of you given a position of authority, or heaven forbid a cane !!!



I seldom ever used it and usualy only for breaches of safety rules in the engineering workshop.
.


You sound like a psychopath, and for a teacher your spelling and grammar is shocking!:no:
You might be able to spell SPB and i'm sure your grammar is perfect all the time, but he wasn't an english teacher now was he !


I never had any trouble with class control I treated each person with respect and got it in return. I was in country schools and knew the Pakeha pupils parents and, most importantly the Maori kids grandmothers, and their blood lines so I could show nesessary respect to the tribal chiefs children. I knew that no Maori would show up a chiefs child so they had to be educated before any of the others would learn anything. Most of the Maori offenders today did not have the benifit of their grandmothers guidance (their parents shifted to work in the city and had no idea of how grandmothers bought up children) nor do they relate to or know about their tribal values..


You got compliance through fear. I agree with SPB - you need help
Short attention span perhaps haha or did you read the whole thing ?

[Goblin]

I agree! If that were true then there was no hope for me raised the way I was. I should by rights be a total thug.Ditto. At home we were all terrified of the old man and his steel capped boots. My sister and I used to practice clenching and kicking each other for when he came home shitty. :pinch: We used to plot how we were gonna kill him.:2guns:

At school the boys got the cane and girls the strap but I was never naughty at school. I remember one little maori boy who was the sweetest kid at primary school. Got himself a job sweeping the local 4 square after school. He wasn't bad, just cheeky, but he used to get caned regularly. He drowned at Okere Falls age 16. :(

[SixPackBack]

Where the hell do you two get off saying that ?

Give you two a keyboard and your tearing strips off someone for an honest post which clearly stated he used it seldom in his career !

He wouldn't need to, the children would have been shit scared. Question how we would view the situation if he walked into the classroom with a baseball bat, knife or gun. The teacher walks into the classroom with a weapon and bandies about in a threatening manner-even coppers don't do that!

I'd hate to see iether of you given a position of authority, or heaven forbid a cane !!!

I am in a position of authority. Compliance is achieved by superlative communication, a keen understanding of the human psyche and most importantly mutual respect.

You might be able to spell SPB and i'm sure your grammar is perfect all the time, but he wasn't an english teacher now was he !

Communication in this country is via our two official languages, English or Maori. A prerequisite to teaching at any level is a solid grounding in one or both of these 'operating systems'.

Short attention span perhaps haha or did you read the whole thing ?

Given our abysmal record in child abuse in this country archaic attitudes regarding 'control by terror' and beating our children, I would strongly disagree with your stance sinfull.

[smoky]

Where the hell do you two get off saying that ?

Give you two a keyboard and your tearing strips off someone

I'd hate to see iether of you given a position of authority, or heaven forbid a cane !!!

What? For having a laugh at a teacher who writes like that? what's your problem? And I hardly tore strips off him, just said he was a product of his generation??
What are you so sensitive for?
You must of been beaten as a child and now you're over sensitive and aggressive

[Pixie]

You bastards must all be psychopaths with all that violence in your childhood.
How many of you has murdered their kids?

I bet none of you has any self esteem.

[sinfull]

Given our abysmal record in child abuse in this country archaic attitudes regarding 'control by terror' and beating our children, I would strongly disagree with your stance sinfull.
My stance came from you calling this man a psychopath mate ! I mean hardly, haha don't know where you went to school, but i remember many teachers occasionally 'swishing' the cane in class. Never have i thought of those ppl as psychopaths !
Edit: Don't get me wrong here SPB, in no way do i condone child abuse and would be the first to step in if i ever witnessed it !
You are correct when you refer to NZ's dismall record there ! But i do feel that the threat of corporal punnishment in schools saved alot of classroom anarchy in my day !
You only need to look at the post below, to see how i would guage psychotic behaviour !!! Or is that paranoid schizophrenic ?


What? For having a laugh at a teacher who writes like that? what's your problem? And I hardly tore strips off him, just said he was a product of his generation??
What are you so sensitive for?
You must of been beaten as a child and now you're over sensitive and aggressive
You Sir are the aggressor here !! Can i ask where in this thread i quoted you ?
My father hit me with a bare hand once and all through school and college i recieved the strap but once !
But i have received the occasional beating since then and handed out my fair share, but never have i started a fight, so bring it on my bible quoting, gown wearing, choir boys worst nightmare !!!

[smoky]

You only need to look at the post below, to see how i would guage psychotic behaviour !!! Or is that paranoid schizophrenic ?

It was said with sarcasm you dick.


Can i ask where in this thread i quoted you ?

You didn't say who you were quoting .... perhaps that was the problem, when you said "you two" I naturally presumed that last two post prior to your post!!!!

Not being sure who you were referring to, I posted with sarcasm - which obviously went over your head due to the fact you are taking this subject rather seriously and taking some offense to other peoples comments - a sure sign you must of had your self esteem whacked out of you as a kid

sad really what smacking can do to an otherwise normal person, and all you can think about is try to hang onto your right to beat your own kids

[Lias]

I support corporal punishment in schools and in the justice system at large. Sue bradford says why should children get hit when adults dont? I couldnt agree more, but rather than not hitting children my solution is we start hitting adults. I bet we'd see a lot less tagging if it got 100 strokes of the cane :-)

[PrincessBandit]

I support corporal punishment in schools and in the justice system at large. Sue bradford says why should children get hit when adults dont? I couldnt agree more, but rather than not hitting children my solution is we start hitting adults. I bet we'd see a lot less tagging if it got 100 strokes of the cane :-)

That's very very naughty of you to suggest we hit adults! I can see I'm going to have to win the auction on my diamante riding crop and come pay you a visit!!

It would be lovely to think we lived in a society where rules were followed and people behaved nicely out of mutual respect for each other. Realistically though this has not proven to be the case. Survival of the biggest and meanest is the order of the day, even in our schools. Trying to encourage the concept of mutual respect and cooperation is like pissing into the wind. I'm still not giving up on it though.

I'd rather have acceptable behaviour from my students because it was in their nature to understand and exhibit it, but in the face of some of the things I witness at school acceptable behaviour out of fear is an alternative I'd take any day over having to dish out meaningless punishments which achieve nothing.

[Oakie]

We had some interesting caners at WBHS when I was there. A couple (a Fijian and a large Chinese guy) could draw blood. I got the cane once for disturbing the class (deserved it). The guy with me went first and took his. Teacher then lined me up but on the backhand. "Cool" I thought, he's taking it easy on me. Wrong! He was an 'A' grade squash player. Fuc*ing OWWW!
Our French teacher was a renowned caner and on several occasions would cane a whole class for moving noisily past his room. The trick then was to be in the middle group of boys because the first third got it when he was angry and would be struck anywhere between the knees and halfway up the back. By the middle third he had settled down and got a good routine. By the last third though he was tired and once again would be anywhere from the knees to halway up the back again.

[Ixion]

..

All I learned from capital punishment was not to get caught - this skill has helped me considerably throughout my life.

This is true. It was a valuable life lesson that serves me well to this day. Always nip away smartish when Authority arrives. Keep in the middle of the pack (saves a few speeding tickets that does). Grovelling works and costs nothing . All good useful lessons.

I had the usual quota of whacks and clips upside the head. It was the norm for the day. I don't think I was abused in any way and have no hangups about it . In every case, except one, I fully expected the punishment. I did whatever I did knowing full well what the consequences would be if caught. Often , I got away with it. Sometimes I didn't. If I didn't I took my punishment straight up. I do still feel resentfull about that one unjustifed thrashing, to this day. It wasn't fair. Perhaps that is the hkey to the matter.

Children have an enormously sensitive understanding of what is 'fair' and 'unfair'. No reasonable punishment will be resented if the child thinks it is fair. Any punishment will be resented (and ineffective), corporal or otherwise, if the child thinks it unfair.

[sinfull]

It was said with sarcasm you dick.


You didn't say who you were quoting .... perhaps that was the problem, when you said "you two" I naturally presumed that last two post prior to your post!!!!

Not being sure who you were referring to, I posted with sarcasm - which obviously went over your head due to the fact you are taking this subject rather seriously and taking some offense to other peoples comments - a sure sign you must of had your self esteem whacked out of you as a kid

sad really what smacking can do to an otherwise normal person, and all you can think about is try to hang onto your right to beat your own kids

Your wrong !!

[tri boy]

Caning a 100kg 16yr old pacific islander is hardly child abuse you lot.
Sammyfellof thesofa would feel it for a couple of minutes then head back to class with the rest of us, knowing that there are boundaries that WILL be enforced.
Something that isn't happening today, and the stabbings and general youth violence escalates at an incredible rate.
So we could flip the punishment argument over, and blame the stabbings on the limp wristed dicks that banned corporal punishment in society.

It's all your fault SPB.:Pokey::spanking:

[SixPackBack]

My stance came from you calling this man a psychopath mate ! I mean hardly, haha don't know where you went to school, but i remember many teachers occasionally 'swishing' the cane in class. Never have i thought of those ppl as psychopaths !
Edit: Don't get me wrong here SPB, in no way do i condone child abuse and would be the first to step in if i ever witnessed it !
You are correct when you refer to NZ's dismall record there ! But i do feel that the threat of corporal punnishment in schools saved alot of classroom anarchy in my day !
You only need to look at the post below, to see how i would guage psychotic behaviour !!! Or is that paranoid schizophrenic ?


You Sir are the aggressor here !! Can i ask where in this thread i quoted you ?
My father hit me with a bare hand once and all through school and college i recieved the strap but once !
But i have received the occasional beating since then and handed out my fair share, but never have i started a fight, so bring it on my bible quoting, gown wearing, choir boys worst nightmare !!!

..................In my day!.....Yup you have a point sinfull. Social sciences have come along way in the last 50 years. We have traveled from a time when it was a lot easier to beat each other than invest in the social skills necessary to gain compliance [and agreeance] through superior communication.

The anti smacking brigade IMHO has some validity-we shouldn't hit our children [in an ideal world]; but we should have the option. We most definitely should NOT be committing a crime with a tap on a child's leg or bum. Arguments around communication make smacking sometimes necessary, quite simply a parent or individual cannot use communication [no matter how skilled they maybe] if the child is animated or refuses to listen......a small shock soon brings them round!

By the time the child is at school, communication is always available and the argument for corporal punishment negated. Using a strap, cane or even the jug chord is assault-if someone hit an individual with a cane under any normal circumstance, either the coppers would be called, or a fight erupt.

[PrincessBandit]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]By the time the child is at school, communication is always available and the argument for corporal punishment negated.

It would be nice if this was the case, but many are still not capable of the proper response patterns in order to avoid escalating conflict.

Some, like moi (wonderful child that I was), are very amenable to instruction, reasoning, learning from the example of others that I saw around me. Other children just seem to have their "reasoning and co-operation" switch deactivated so not matter how persuasive, patient, "nice" you try to be when restraining or disciplining they don't get it.

[tri boy]

News flash.
SPB scared of the jandal.:lol:

[AD345]

Headmasters son - untouchable.





Good times, good times.....

[wickle]

Headmasters son - untouchable.





Good times, good times.....
at our school you would have got your hair washed in the poclien bowl!

[AD345]

at our school you would have got your hair washed in the poclien bowl!

Oh yeah - there were always the staunch few that plotted some sort of crap like that.........

.....never came to anything that couldn't be dealt with.

[Winston001]

We had some interesting caners at WBHS when I was there. A large Chinese guy) could draw blood.

Stan Lowe!! :2thumbsup: Good guy but deadly with his cane.

[Number One]

Strap in front of class first day of school for farting on the mat during story time.

Soap in mouth during art class for not drawing my sunflower the way the teacher wanted it drawn for the exercise.

Small organ Morgan used to throw chairs, dusters and chalk at kids that pissed him off.

Oh yeah and when me mum broke the wooden spoon on my arse she invested in a green Tupperware salad fork - that bitch had some recoil to it and never broke!

ahhh them were the days :lol:

[LBD]

Any one remember a PE teacher in Rangiora....
Killer Kane by name, Killer Kane by nature?

[Mikkel]

When I went to school coporal punishment had been outlawed for at least a decade. Our teachers rarely had trouble keeping discipline... They weren't allowed to hit us, but they'd still grab out ear, the little hairs on the side of your head or our upper arm... and it would hurt and it was enough.
Ok, one older fella would hit us on occassion and never was there made a case out of it... but guess which of our teachers we had the least respect for.
The teacher we had the most respect for was this senior teacher, who I never saw as much as touch a pupil, but get him mad and boy he was nasty. We really didn't want to piss him off, that's for sure. I can't explain what it was, perhaps just a natural air of authority and when he, rather loudly and in intimate detail, expressed his disappointment with you he just made you feel very very bad about yourself. The guy who hit us, on the other hand, just made us defiant.


Have a retired teacher who is a good family friend,taught me in high school,he said it went downhill when corporal punishment was outlawed.

No wonder. If you rely only on the threat of physical retaliation to instill discipline you will be naked when that tool is taken away from you.
Fear is counter productive when trying to teach people - what you need is respect, and respect must be mutual. It can not be obtained when one party is operating from a position of power based upon threat of violence in order to direct the other.

There are other ways in which to make people do as they are told... other much much more effective ways.


My Dad only once...with his hand, I deserved it...and he made it count. The upshot is, because it was seldom, when it did happen it meant so much more

Exactly. If you beat people enough they will just become hardened and callous.


I support corporal punishment in schools and in the justice system at large. Sue bradford says why should children get hit when adults dont? I couldnt agree more, but rather than not hitting children my solution is we start hitting adults. I bet we'd see a lot less tagging if it got 100 strokes of the cane :-)

Fucking oath! (that's sarcasm, so is what follows)

Here's an idea. Let's base our society upon violence. Also, let's get rid of all of those pesky obstacles like freedom of speech, thought and religion. Let's abolish the right to due process and get this show on the road. Hell, let's reinstate the inquisition, that'd be awesome. After all, things were much better back 500 years ago... well, at least there was no car-thieves, no tagging and crims got what was coming to them (provided they stole from nobility of the church of course).

[Bass]

I am puzzled by some of this discussion.
I grew up in a time where corporal punishment was the norm and yet my memories are of a society with hugely less violence than it has now. I have no doubt that there was just as much aggro then as now, perhaps more, but the use of a weapon was rare, as was serious injury
Murder was most unusual and national news for weeks - so too armed robbery.
If any of the neighbourhood kids was in trouble, any of the neighbourhood adults could be relied on to sort it out.

This is my personal experience.

How things have changed.

[Mikkel]

How things have changed.

Indeed. And outlawing coporal punishment is not the only change that has taken place which might have an impact upon social interactions.

Surely, you will not make a case for teachers not hitting pupils as the cause of pupils carrying knives.

[slofox]

Strap in front of class first day of school for farting on the mat during story time.



Bloody well deserved I'd say!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl::killingme:rofl:

[Bass]

Indeed. And outlawing coporal punishment is not the only change that has taken place which might have an impact upon social interactions.
Agreed, but I can't see that it has slowed the spread of the rot, rather I fear that it may have hastened it. There used to be consequences when one screwed up at a minor level which discouraged advancing to the majors. They were short, sharp, to the point, over and done with and we moved on. To my eyes they seem to have gone.


Surely, you will not make a case for teachers not hitting pupils as the cause of pupils carrying knives.
No, of course not. It is part of the total picture, even so.

[Mikkel]

Agreed, but I can't see that it has slowed the spread of the rot, rather I fear that it may have hastened it. There used to be consequences when one screwed up at a minor level which discouraged advancing to the majors. They were short, sharp, to the point, over and done with and we moved on. To my eyes they seem to have gone.

Oh, there is still a consequence (or at least there should be, and if there isn't, the school system is not the main culprit). But that consequence is not getting beaten up - unless you happen to offend one of the knuckledragging troglodytes and his equally challenged mates who believes in the virtues of vigilante action. Unfortunately, this particular species (Homo Sapiens Vulgaris) is not nearly as endangered as the Strigops habroptila, the really prehistoric Sphenodon punctatus or its name sake the Apteryx.

If you imprint your developing citizens to consider the consequence for violating the rules to be coporal punishment you will only feed the cycle of violence.
Considering that, it is very disconcerting that 45% of NZ's population actually consider "a light smack" part of "good parental correction".

I currently wondering what percentage of P users would take to the ballot if a referendum on whether to make P legal or not was to be made...

Also, where is the SPCC? Even the SPCA should be concerned about this matter...

[Bass]

If you imprint your developing citizens to consider the consequence for violating the rules to be coporal punishment you will only feed the cycle of violence.

See, this is a claim we often hear and on the face of it, would seem to have some grounding in logic.
I have been there and it didn't happen that way.
We were definately imprinted that the consequences of minor indiscretions were painful but there was a lot LESS violence then than now.
Sorry but my experience doesn't support your assertion. I think it had something to do with the respect for authority that went along with it.




(Yeah, I realise my SOH seems to have taken a break at the moment).

[Winston001]

.....I think it had something to do with the respect for authority that went along with it.



Loss of respect throughout society is the nub of the matter. I was in India on an aid project a while ago and the people reminded me of how it was here 30 years ago.

No drunken teenagers leaning out of cars abusing passersby. No street fights. I only saw one possibly drunk person in 3 weeks. Despite the enormous crowding, everyone was polite and well mannered. Eventually I felt safer in Bombay than our own cities.

Why the loss of respect? I don't know but it's our generation, not our kids, who let it happen.

[Mikkel]

See, this is a claim we often hear and on the face of it, would seem to have some grounding in logic.
I have been there and it didn't happen that way.
We were definately imprinted that the consequences of minor indiscretions were painful but there was a lot LESS violence then than now.
Sorry but my experience doesn't support your assertion. I think it had something to do with the respect for authority that went along with it.

Correlation does not equal causality...

And in my experience fear and respect are two very different things, although plenty of people seems to have them confused. Violence, and the threat thereof, does not breed respect - only fear.
I am willing to agree that the touchy-feely-PC-bullshit mentality of today, which turns perpetrators into perceived victims and doesn't provide firm boundaries for what is acceptable and what is not, plays a significant part in this.
But I must maintain that it's not a matter of either you smack people around or you do nothing. A thinking human is able get the point across without resorting the violence.

Using your arguments you can no more dismiss my logical claim than vague assertions such as those concerning the impact of violent movies and video games. Personally, I'd argue that many of the social issues we see today are largely due to the "dilution" of the communal spirit - i.e. today we are all, seemingly, independent of eachother and as such don't feel we have a need for one another. Values have shifted from personal integrity to being more materialistic.

One question, and I think this is important, where did you grow up? And where do you live now? I am fairly confident that the level of violence in, let's say, Darfield hasn't changed significantly over the last 50 years. If you could find a study investigating the correlation between violence and population density I think that could be very interesting.

[Mikkel]

Why the loss of respect? I don't know but it's our generation, not our kids, who let it happen.

Maybe it was because they didn't beat you enough then... <_<

Jokes aside, it is a very important point.

[Bass]

Correlation does not equal causality....
But you claim causality without any correlation which makes even less sense.


And in my experience fear and respect are two very different things, although plenty of people seems to have them confused. Violence, and the threat thereof, does not breed respect - only fear.....
I agree, but we didn't fear these people - we got along very well with some of them. Hell, we had one teacher who used to loan us his car to get to away sports matches. We surely respected them though. Of course we had some teachers who very rarely, if ever, resorted to a sound thrashing, but we didn't think any the less of them when they did.

I am willing to agree that the touchy-feely-PC-bullshit mentality of today, which turns perpetrators into perceived victims and doesn't provide firm boundaries for what is acceptable and what is not, plays a significant part in this.
But I must maintain that it's not a matter of either you smack people around or you do nothing. A thinking human is able get the point across without resorting the violence.

Using your arguments you can no more dismiss my logical claim than vague assertions such as those concerning the impact of violent movies and video games. Personally, I'd argue that many of the social issues we see today are largely due to the "dilution" of the communal spirit - i.e. today we are all, seemingly, independent of eachother and as such don't feel we have a need for one another. Values have shifted from personal integrity to being more materialistic.

One question, and I think this is important, where did you grow up? And where do you live now? I am fairly confident that the level of violence in, let's say, Darfield hasn't changed significantly over the last 50 years. If you could find a study investigating the correlation between violence and population density I think that could be very interesting.

I agree with much of the rest of what you have to say and I grew up in Invercargill which these days is just as rough as Auckland where I now live. I think your comments about community spirit show a degree of maturity although I think that it has more to it than population density. It was certainly a much more egalitarian society that I grew up in.

[Bass]

Loss of respect throughout society is the nub of the matter. .

It's certainly pretty central, but I think it's still just a symptom.

[Mikkel]

But you claim causality without any correlation which makes even less sense.

Yes, my claim that violence begets violence is only just a claim. Alas, there has until this day not been a society where violence has been eradicated, so it's difficult to provide evidence to suggest what it would be like in a society where everybody have had a non-violent upbringing.

On the other hand, if you consider the "less safe" societies on this planet I am rather confident you'll be to establish a correlation between violent upbringing and violent crime - statistically speaking of course. As has been pointed out, not everyone brought up in a violent home proceeds to beat up their own children. Nor is the opposite the truth.

If you and your neighbour both teach your kids that the epitome of rational argumentation is 5-across-the-eyes - then no wonder when they later end up in court or hospital following a petty disagreement. To a large degree it's just monkey see, monkey do with psycology thrown into the mix for good measure.


It was certainly a much more egalitarian society that I grew up in.

There is that as well.