Paul Holmes - open letter to John Key

[Mully]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10592615&pnum=0

Poor guy. Like him or hate him, he and his family don't deserve what P has done to that girl

[Deano]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10592615&pnum=0

Poor guy. Like him or hate him, he and his family don't deserve what P has done to that girl

What about all the legitimate cold/flu sufferers ? Is there a good alternative or will they all be disadvantaged?

Seems like a case of a lowest common denominator with high profile parents.

Should all motorcycles be banned because some 'abuse' them ?

[98tls]

Nobody force fed it to her.

[scumdog]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10592615&pnum=0

Poor guy. Like him or hate him, he and his family don't deserve what P has done to that girl

And losers will still use the shit - and wonder why their life has gone down the dunny.........

[Mully]

Apparently, most people who get hooked think they can handle it.

So, what the solution to the P problem then?

[wbks]

Apparently, most people who get hooked think they can handle it.

So, what the solution to the P problem then?If you've enough bad luck to be around, or have a loved one around a tweeker, you will probably agree with me when I say: The solution is: A bullet

[Mully]

If you've enough bad luck to be around, or have a loved one around a tweeker, you will probably agree with me when I say: The solution is: A bullet

My brother was one.

How do we solve this "pandemic" then?

[sels1]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10592615&pnum=0

Poor guy. Like him or hate him, he and his family don't deserve what P has done to that girl

I'm not one of his fans, but good on him for using his high profile to raise awareness of this issue - his (and his family's) personal experience of this is not something I'd wish on anyone.

[wbks]

My brother was one.

How do we solve this "pandemic" then?Maybe a little too harsh for a family member, aye... You can't solve the pandemic IMO. So long as scum romes the earth and the world is geared towards human vs human competition

[Hitcher]

Like Peter Gluckman, Paul Holmes is way off track on this one. Only smalltime kitchens manufacture P from colds and sniffles potions. The major manufacturers and dealers are bring the raw materials and other sundry accoutrements in from China and other places by the container load. I feel another dumb law coming on.

[Hitcher]

So, what the solution to the P problem then?

Crack (excuse the pun) down hard on the organised gangs, such as the Headhunters, that are making a fortune manufacturing/importing/distributing the stuff. And I'm not just talking about the Police -- I'm talking about citizens in general.

Snub these exploitive oxygen thieving losers. Headhunters have inveigled themselves into the lifestyles of the Glittering Classes, and are dealing drugs to the best and brightest of Auckland and their children. After an SUV and a holiday home at Tairua, a Headhunter at your social function is the latest symbol of success.

Crime only thrives if society lets it thrive.

There will be deniers on Kiwi Biker about the insidious effects of P and those who deal it. There are many words to describe such folk, all of which are descriptively impolite.

[Jantar]

And if it is a $1.5 billion industry, then that has not come about because of the sale of a few cold and flu tablets over the counter of the chemist shops. The main thrust of any war on P has to be launched at our borders. But, as I say, the banning of sales of medicines containing pseudoephedrine to any Tom, Dick or Harry sends a message of intent.

So Holmes admits that banning a cold and flu medicine won't have any effect other than sending a message of intent. Personally, I'd rather send a much higher calibre message of intent. Like 7.62 perhaps? :cool:

[98tls]

Imagine whats going to happen when the "unsmackable" leave the nest.

[Hitcher]

Millie Holmes is going to hell in a handcart. What have your kids been ingesting this weekend?

[Slicksta]

The war on drugs can never be won. Education might do something but there will always be victims.

[Headbanger]

My brother was one.



How is he now?

[98tls]

How is he now? What he said,hope he got it sorted.

[peasea]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10592615&pnum=0

Poor guy. Like him or hate him, he and his family don't deserve what P has done to that girl

Excuse me!

Paul Homo is using his media clout here and I'd expect his daughter to get a far lesser sentence than Fartoo Big Alofa in Otara for the same crime. Watch this space.

"What P has done to that girl" is nothing compared to what it does to people without the money to buy good treatment and good lawyers. Sure Millie might have a problem but it's the same problem that thousands of other kiwis have.

If Paul Holmes was half a journalist he'd be utilising his riches, hunting down the P cooks and getting the best lawyers in the land to lock them up.

Like the law-enforcement agencies in NZ Mister Holmes will pay lip service to the problem at its root and grandstand when it suits.

[JMemonic]

Excuse me!

Paul Homo is using his media clout here and I'd expect his daughter to get a far lesser sentence than Fartoo Big Alofa in Otara for the same crime. Watch this space.

"What P has done to that girl" is nothing compared to what it does to people without the money to buy good treatment and good lawyers. Sure Millie might have a problem but it's the same problem that thousands of other kiwis have.

If Paul Holmes was half a journalist he'd be utilising his riches, hunting down the P cooks and getting the best lawyers in the land to lock them up.

Like the law-enforcement agencies in NZ Mister Holmes will pay lip service to the problem at its root and grandstand when it suits.

I find myself agreeing with you on this, its unfortunate that that the law enforcement off the land is coming down to who has the biggest wallet, the manufacture and distribution channels seem to be rolling in disposable income. The law needs to be a three strike your out system for certain offences and class A drug distribution is one of those. Oh no languishing in jail at the tax payers expense either ...

[98tls]

I find myself agreeing with you on this, its unfortunate that that the law enforcement off the land is coming down to who has the biggest wallet, the manufacture and distribution channels seem to be rolling in disposable income. The law needs to be a three strike your out system for certain offences and class A drug distribution is one of those. Oh no languishing in jail at the tax payers expense either ... All comes back to the lack of 'personal responsibility".Which in turn ultimtely comes back to tree huggers and there misguided followers.The followers are arguably the worst,they want to sacrifice the rights of normal people for the sake of a few fuck-ups.

[RantyDave]

Paul Holmes is way off track on this one. Only smalltime kitchens manufacture P from colds and sniffles potions.
He actually knows this:

And if it is a $1.5 billion industry, then that has not come about because of the sale of a few cold and flu tablets over the counter of the chemist shops.

[RantyDave]

Crack (excuse the pun) down hard on the organised gangs, such as the Headhunters, that are making a fortune manufacturing/importing/distributing the stuff. And I'm not just talking about the Police -- I'm talking about citizens in general.
This has to be the only way, eh? Me being me would squawk about decriminalising weed first - freeing up untold millions of dollars, millions of police-hours and robbing the gangs of their main source of income .... then get nasty on them ... long drawn out PR campaigns painting them to be baby killers; give all those "rahh rahh smacking is good" wastoids something useful to do; and support the police breaking a few eggs to make the omelette of greater good.

To that end I think Paul Holmes is doing the only genuinely useful thing of his entire life. Shame he had to be taken down a couple of dozen pegs before he started to care about anything other than his career but he does have a good track record for impressing opinions on the masses and should be used.

The only problem then is to work out what to do with the large number of criminals we are about to produce. I suspect we need to send them to a large offshore colony somewhere.....

Dave

[RantyDave]

tree huggers and there misguided followers.The followers are arguably the worst,they want to sacrifice the rights of normal people for the sake of a few fuck-ups.
I think you misunderstand tree huggers. They are the ones most concerned about the erosion of individual rights.

Dave

[Usarka]

The war on drugs can never be won. Education might do something but there will always be victims.

The current issue with meth (i hate the term P!) has a lot to do with mis-education.

People have always been told "drugs are bad m'kay!" and that you'll go crazy, kill people, and die if you do anything from pot to bzp to lsd to ecstacy to meth.

Unfortunately it's a lie for some of those, so the people who use them don't believe it when they hear about the next nasty drug.

[wbks]

The current issue with meth (i hate the term P!) has a lot to do with mis-education.

People have always been told "drugs are bad m'kay!" and that you'll go crazy, kill people, and die if you do anything from pot to bzp to lsd to ecstacy to meth.

Unfortunately it's a lie for some of those, so the people who use them don't believe it when they hear about the next nasty drug.Haven't people already heard enough about how bad meth is? It's on the news practically every night! But then when was the last time you heard something on the media about lsd or ecstasy?

[Usarka]

Haven't people already heard enough about how bad meth is? It's on the news practically every night! But then when was the last time you heard something on the media about lsd or ecstasy?

That's my point - the wolf is real this time.

About 10 years ago when ecstacy was the "current" drug there was a continuous stream of warnings about the drug. About 5 years ago there were constant warnings about bzp and there seemed to be someone in hospital every weekend from it.

A lot of todays P users are folk who took ecstacy and other drugs and have tuned out to the warnings either because they don't ignore them or that they've proven themselves able to handle dangerous drugs.

[Mully]

How is he now?


What he said,hope he got it sorted.

Yeah, we managed to sort him out. Mainly by sending him to Australia to escape the people here who got him into it.

So he's good now. His life is back on track. $15K-odd worth of dental treatment later.

Cheers.

[Lias]

Alcohol does much more damage to society, its responsible for more deaths, and more crime than meth.

I reckon we should legalise it, tax it, and punish those who break the law under its influence the same as we do with booze.

[Hitcher]

People have always been told "drugs are bad m'kay!" and that you'll go crazy, kill people, and die if you do anything from pot to bzp to lsd to ecstacy to meth.

Unfortunately it's a lie for some of those, so the people who use them don't believe it when they hear about the next nasty drug.

It's worse than that. We live in a culture that believes that one has to be off one's head on some substance or other in order to have fun, be sociable and fit in -- whether that's tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, ecstasy, cocaine, heroin or crystal meth.

People then labour through all forms of denial or excuse making to validate the potion that they're currently employing for gratification and acceptance by their peers.

The thing that startles me most about a lot of this is the willingness that most have to bung all manner of shit in their body that has, at best, been lightly tossed together by Dwayne (who failed NCEA science) on a barbecue in his garage in Dargaville. Given the passion that society has to demand country-of-origin labelling, Heart Foundation ticks, % daily allowance, and all manner of other nanny state conditions on everything else they ingest, I find this a massive contradiction.

[Hitcher]

Alcohol does much more damage to society, its responsible for more deaths, and more crime than meth.

Bull. Shit.

Legalising, as you suggest, makes drugs socially acceptable.

If crystal meth was as available and as acceptable as alcohol, those of us who remained sober would be heavily armed and living in fortified compounds.

[Drunken Monkey]

A lot of todays P users are folk who took ecstacy and other drugs and have tuned out to the warnings either because they don't ignore them or that they've proven themselves able to handle dangerous drugs.

Got anything better than anecdotal evidence to back this claim up?

[Drunken Monkey]

Bull. Shit.

Legalising, as you suggest, makes drugs socially acceptable.

If crystal meth was as available and as acceptable as alcohol, those of us who remained sober would be heavily armed and living in fortified compounds.

Prohibition is just as ineffective.

[short-circuit]

Bull. Shit.

Legalising, as you suggest, makes drugs socially acceptable.

If crystal meth was as available and as acceptable as alcohol, those of us who remained sober would be heavily armed and living in fortified compounds.

Yeah sure just like the dole is such a gravy train that people are chucking their jobs left right and centre in the scramble to get on it.


The way forward is toward an enlightened approach as opposed to a fear based one. FULL decriminalisation (and control) of all drugs. Drug use should be dealt with in the Health and Education sectors, and NOT the Criminal Justice System

[Hitcher]

The way forward is toward an enlightened approach as opposed to a fear based one. FULL decriminalisation (and control) of all drugs. Drug use should be dealt with in the Health and Education sectors, and NOT the Criminal Justice System

Remember that this is a country that requires laws to stop people doing things, like texting whilst driving, that defy sense and reason one would presume, sufficiently for people to not want to do them anyway.

If full decriminalisation was such a cool idea, then some enlightened country somewhere would have tried it by now. I'm not talking about "recreational" drugs (which is another subject entirely) when advocating a hard line on enforcement and control. I'm talking about the evil highly addictive life-destroying shit and the sexy criminal underworld that peddles it.

[short-circuit]

Remember that this is a country that requires laws to stop people doing things, like texting whilst driving, that defy sense and reason one would presume, sufficiently for people to not want to do them anyway.

If full decriminalisation was such a cool idea, then some enlightened country somewhere would have tried it by now. I'm not talking about "recreational" drugs (which is another subject entirely) when advocating a hard line on enforcement and control. I'm talking about the evil highly addictive life-destroying shit and the sexy criminal underworld that peddles it.

Other countries have set up sterile injecting clinics and safe needle exchange etc. Do your homework.

Think about how sexy rocking up to one of those in your pyjamas for your morning fix would be.

[Mystic13]

I agree that Paul's letter is misguided at best.

I've dealt with him (Paul) and he's a &^%$#. I've never met someone so full of themselves in my entire life.

I don't think Cold and Flu sufferers should be punished because Paul and co spoiled Millie.

____________________

What really concerns me is the two levels of law that exist in NZ for the wealthy and the rest of us. Millie should be in jail.



Take Veitch.

If anyone else broke someone else's back they'd do jail time. He got a $10,000 fine which he could pay easily.

Veitch goes missing from the family batch at Pauanui. They call the police and the police race out. Bugger me. If I rang the police they'd ask have they been missing for 24 hours? If I answered no then they won't even treat it as a missing person. Two cop cars rush out straight away and find him over the sand dune from the house. WTF can't rich families walk over a sand dune.

He wanders off again and police do an immediate search, track his phone and locate him. F&%K me! Are you kidding. Unbelievably special treatment.

I'd also met Veitch and he was a shit bag as well. And I'm sure he won't change.

What we really need is a closer look at the special treatment the rich and famous are getting. I'm sure they can get a pile of psychologists reports saying their kids can't handle it in jail. But isn't that what jails for. Sure they'll miss out on the trips, the nightclubs, the cars and the parties.

I have no sympathy for Millie.

________________

Taking on P is a different story. It seems that it's in the too hard basket. I think you have to take a look at the whole picture. Our judicial system and penalties at present don't offer any hope of dealing with it.

It's going to take some serious commitment and lobbying.

[SS90]

Excuse me!

Paul Homo is using his media clout here and I'd expect his daughter to get a far lesser sentence than Fartoo Big Alofa in Otara for the same crime. Watch this space.

"What P has done to that girl" is nothing compared to what it does to people without the money to buy good treatment and good lawyers. Sure Millie might have a problem but it's the same problem that thousands of other kiwis have.

If Paul Holmes was half a journalist he'd be utilising his riches, hunting down the P cooks and getting the best lawyers in the land to lock them up.

Like the law-enforcement agencies in NZ Mister Holmes will pay lip service to the problem at its root and grandstand when it suits.

I have to agree with you on that one mate.

Sadly, the preferential treatment provided to those people who have "clout" in the right circles is quite sick.

anyway, why the Hell does Paul Bloody Holmes have any clout with the police/Judicery?

Who is Paul Holmes? Just an overpaid Narcisic TV presenter, nothing more.

Not that a few lines on an internet thread will change anything, but it is pretty sad that a "celeb" (use that term in it's loosest possible form) has ANY sway whatso ever with such organisations.

What power does he have?

The relality is, Mille Holmes will be unlikely to spend any time in Jail, POSSIBLY because her Dad is Paul Holmes.

Reading a few other interviews with her today, she claims she never paid for her $1000 a day "habit"

I may be being a little cynical/unsensitive, but I am of the opinion that her "$1000 a day P addiction" is more of an exaggeration than reality.

$1000 a day? granted, that is a realistic cost for a P addict.......but, I just can't shake the nagging feeling that she is "playing it up a bit" for the papers when it come to the extent of her addiction....

maybe I'm wrong

[Lias]

Legalising, as you suggest, makes drugs socially acceptable.

Drugs ARE socially acceptable to a lot of people.



If crystal meth was as available and as acceptable as alcohol, those of us who remained sober would be heavily armed and living in fortified compounds.
You make that sound like a bad thing. Sadly big brother frowns on fortifying your house and assumes your a gangmember or some such.

[wbks]

Drugs ARE socially acceptable to a lot of people.

.Yea. Aren't NZers the highest marijuana smokers based on percentage of population? Sounds pretty acceptable to me... I know it sounds stupid saying "gateway drug gateway drug", but you'd be surprised how many people are anti drugs, but after they get stoned, they do it a bit more finding out its not that bad, then shrooms, then gradually more heavy shit, so it does seem to have that effect

[Pixie]

Substance abusers are shit heads.I only give a fuck about their sordid little lives when they impinge on mine.
It's a pity the chemicals they abuse don't kill them more quickly

[RantyDave]

The thing that startles me most about a lot of this is the willingness that most have to bung all manner of shit in their body that has, at best, been lightly tossed together by Dwayne (who failed NCEA science) on a barbecue in his garage in Dargaville. Given the passion that society has to demand country-of-origin labelling, Heart Foundation ticks, % daily allowance, and all manner of other nanny state conditions on everything else they ingest, I find this a massive contradiction.
I think you'll find the consumers of Dwayne's handiwork and organic phosphate free traceable origin unsaturated fat only for my special little snowflake market are entirely separate. I also think you'll find most weed consumers know a lot more about the quality and growing conditions of that particular product than anything ingested without breaking the law. I'd also argue that since most 'recreational' drugs have no biological element to them that passing on a disease, along a vector that is usually burned, would be extremely difficult. (hepatitis from the crack pipe itself, sure)

Other than that a guarantee as to the quality and content of recreational pharmaceuticals is but one of the advantages their legalisation will eventually bring. Eventually. I guess we're talking "children's children" at this stage though.

Dave

[ynot slow]

She is a spoilt brat,her mum hitched up with Holmes for the gravy run,seemed to me when little Millie was older(16 or so)decided I'll leave him now our future is secure.

Maybe the fact that sending kids to naughty corner didn't work,sure Holmes doesn't deserve the shit,but he could say she's NOT my daughter,let her Dad look after her.

[Hitcher]

Other countries have set up sterile injecting clinics and safe needle exchange etc. Do your homework.

For crystal meth? Please help me with my homework by providing evidence.

Thank you.

[Slyer]

When my own clever, funny and intelligent daughter was first arrested, P had captured her completely.
Clever and intelligent people don't do P.

[Hitcher]

Clever and intelligent people don't do P.

Nor do they date Headhunters, I would wager.

[Usarka]

Got anything better than anecdotal evidence to back this claim up?

It was from a drug and alcohol researcher I flatted with 4 years ago. I don't have a signed affidavit or any of his research to hand so yeah good point I'm way underqualified to talk in this thread.......

[Drunken Monkey]

It was from a drug and alcohol researcher I flatted with 4 years ago. I don't have a signed affidavit or any of his research to hand so yeah good point I'm way underqualified to talk in this thread.......

No, but some form of link would be nice. My point is there is a LOT of research out there that debunks the "gateway drug" myth. One of many examples can be found here: http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm

So, I just wanted to know if you were making an informed decision on studies such as this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9179520?dopt=Abstract , or whether you were just posting personal opinion based on ignorance and disguising it as a fact.

[Babelfish]

He shouldn't have even brought over the counter psuedo eph into the equation, it fucks him up later in the argument and doesnt do his already shite cred any favours.


If Paul Holmes was half a journalist

They dont exist any more. :baby:


Alcohol does much more damage to society, its responsible for more deaths, and more crime than meth.

I reckon we should legalise it, tax it, and punish those who break the law under its influence the same as we do with booze.

Yep. Better yet, create drugs that do a better job for less money and undercut the fuckers peddling it in their back yards.


We live in a culture that believes that one has to be off one's head on some substance or other in order to have fun, be sociable and fit in

...bla bla bla...

The thing that startles me most about a lot of this is the willingness that most have to bung all manner of shit in their body that has, at best, been lightly tossed together by Dwayne (who failed NCEA science) on a barbecue in his garage in Dargaville. Given the passion that society has to demand country-of-origin labelling, Heart Foundation ticks, % daily allowance, and all manner of other nanny state conditions on everything else they ingest, I find this a massive contradiction.

Drugs and alcohol have been part of being social for a few years now...probably since some cave bloke found an interesting leaf to chew before jiggling his bits in an intertribe fire dance. People like to remove themselves from the humdrum one way or another...some more heathly than others...

I thought this was fairly obvious and logical and by now we would have accepted it. If the worlds chemists were engaged to do this properly rather than having their previous concoctions bastardised by Dwayne and his mates then perhaps we'd be in a safer and more predictable state. Allowing breweries while not allowing chemists is hypocritical at best.

Given the simplicity of this, I have ofter wondered what benefit to gang-run druges the politicians are holding onto. Cashflow through money laundering has been mentioned.

Anyhoo, if we could sort this out, perhaps we could not only be left alone while ordering our psuedophed but we could also get our fully tested and properly packaged weekend wonderpill at the same time! :banana:

[ghost]

Execute every one over 18 found in P labs. Execute every one found to be supplying P. Execute everyone who commits violent crimes while under the influence of P.

Think thats to harsh? Have a look at what they are doing to people, to society...............

[ManDownUnder]

Spike the precursors.

Tap into the illicit supply chains and throw a few items in there that look the part but either totally fuck the chemistry or trigger the odd P lab explosion. Hurt the profiteers.

Drop a bit of nuclear medicine in there and pick up the users (and labs) with a geiger counter

[SPman]

Clever and intelligent people don't do P.Given the right quirk in their nature, clever, intelligent people, like anyone else, are inclined to do anything, anyone else might do - including Ice, P, Heroin, whatever - but, of course, they are too clever and intelligent to become hooked - they'll just give it a taste............:Oops:

After a while, however, they tend to become rather less clever and intelligent!

[The Stranger]

What about all the legitimate cold/flu sufferers ? Is there a good alternative or will they all be disadvantaged?



There is an excellent alternative, the same alternative that has existed for the last 100,000 years - HARDEN THE FUCK UP!

[ManDownUnder]

HARDEN THE FUCK UP!

May I provide sir with an example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic) of why that theory's not always the best approach?

[The Stranger]

May I provide sir with an example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic) of why that theory's not always the best approach?

Ah, did I miss something in that article, I didn't notice any reference to pseudoephedrine. Also, I may be incorrect here, but I was under the distinct impression that we (humans) hadn't yet managed to cure a viral infection yet.

That article relates to flu, however pseudoephedrine is also claimed to be a cold remedy. Fook sake, have a lemon and honey drink and go to bed if you must.

[scumdog]

No, but some form of link would be nice. My point is there is a LOT of research out there that debunks the "gateway drug" myth. One of many examples can be found here: http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm

So, I just wanted to know if you were making an informed decision on studies such as this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9179520?dopt=Abstract , or whether you were just posting personal opinion based on ignorance and disguising it as a fact.

All I can say is that from my experiences I've yet to meet a druggie that started right off on the hard stuff.<_<

[enigma51]

Apparently, most people who get hooked think they can handle it.

So, what the solution to the P problem then?

Shoot them.

[Pedrostt500]

So how much P can be made from a packet of cold flu tablets, its a question that never seems to get an answer.
The root of the problem lies with organised crime, Give the police the tools and back up to go after organised crime, allow the seizure of the proffits of crime, wake up the justice system so that it doesn't squander the hard work of the police, with petty fines and comunity service.
Allow the police to use all seized assets, or cash them in to use the money to fight the crime organisations, not letting the beauracrats to put the money into the slush fund.

[RantyDave]

All I can say is that from my experiences I've yet to meet a druggie that started right off on the hard stuff.
Oh scummy, please. Have you met a druggie that never went to school? Schools are the gateway, close the schools. Have you met a teetotal druggie? Alcohol is the gateway, ban alcohol. In fact, there seems to be a pretty close correlation between you meeting them and druggies - sure you don't have something to tell us?

Today's Sesame Street was bought to you by the words Cause, Correlation and the letter "P".

Dave

[RantyDave]

Clever and intelligent people don't do P.
Sure they do. One can be clever, intelligent and misguided. One can be clever, intelligent and misinformed. One can also be clever, intelligent, be hated by damn nearly everyone because you're a spoiled brat whose dad is a self important bullshit pedlar and be desperate to fit in and be accepted by anyone at all. One might also be clever, intelligent and just desperate for an escape from all the bullshit.

In most of these cases I believe Mr Holmes needs to take look somewhat closer to home and muse on the nature of regret for a while. But there is little to no doubt that P turned an ordinary spoilt bitch from Auckland into something rather more disturbing in a very short period of time. Those without Daddy and Daddy's lawyers must be absolutely fucked.

Dave

[Slyer]

You would need to live an extremely sheltered life to not know that P fucks you up.
And you need to be a bit stupid to do it anyway.

[Pixie]

Oh scummy, please. Have you met a druggie that never went to school? Schools are the gateway, close the schools. Have you met a teetotal druggie? Alcohol is the gateway, ban alcohol. In fact, there seems to be a pretty close correlation between you meeting them and druggies - sure you don't have something to tell us?

Today's Sesame Street was bought to you by the words Cause, Correlation and the letter "P".

Dave

Make scummy illegal!!

[Metalor]

Hmmm... I've of a sort of mixed opinoin on this one. I think it would be a good idea to decriminalise SOME drugs ie marijuana, and tax them, control them and monitor the usuage.

Decriminalising weed would free up huuuge amounts of police resources, earn an income for the government to use on other things which are a MUCH bigger problem than weed (maybe spend it on putting covers on those cheesecutters!!).

I'm not against things like E, lsd, party pills etc... I would be more for if they were sold over the counter but controlled with warning labels, recommended dosage etc... Yes, it sounds ludicrious but then the people who were taking it would actually know what they were taking rather than something cut to shit with rat bait or whatever else.

On P though, that needs to be eradicated from society. Utterly and completely.

It'd be hard to decide which drugs to decriminalise and which are to remain illegal, but the strongly addictive ones (such as P) would be a good start.

[scumdog]

Oh scummy, please. Have you met a druggie that never went to school? Schools are the gateway, close the schools. Have you met a teetotal druggie? Alcohol is the gateway, ban alcohol. In fact, there seems to be a pretty close correlation between you meeting them and druggies - sure you don't have something to tell us?

Today's Sesame Street was bought to you by the words Cause, Correlation and the letter "P".

Dave

Hey why stop there - all druggies started out breathing, stop the breathing...

Seriously, I was only pointing out an observation based on personal experience, don't get too excited dude.

[The Stranger]

You would need to live an extremely sheltered life to not know that P fucks you up.
And you need to be a bit stupid to do it anyway.

You would need to live an extremely sheltered life to not know that you are full of shit and yet, strangely, you are.

[Slyer]

You would need to live an extremely sheltered life to not know that you are full of shit and yet, strangely, you are.
Apparently I just have higher standards.

[Drunken Monkey]

That article relates to flu, however pseudoephedrine is also claimed to be a cold remedy. Fook sake, have a lemon and honey drink and go to bed if you must.

So getting your mum to make you a remedy then going to bed is your definition of "hardening up"? I love the way it's ok for you to make outlandish statements like it's gospel, but if anyone else does, they're an idiot. Stop being a tosser, I know you're better than that.

[The Stranger]

So getting your mum to make you a remedy then going to bed is your definition of "hardening up"?

No, that was an option for those with a cold whom felt they couldn't make it without medication - in repsonse to MDU suggestion that HTFU was not an acceptable option.
And there is no need for you to get your mum to make it, you can do this yourself, if you're really stuck let me know and I'll send you the recipe.

Seriously, you don't mean to tell me that you actually take medication for a cold?

[The Stranger]

Apparently I just have higher standards.

Than who Slyer?
This guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis) perhaps?

I would suggest that part of having higher standards is not being judgemental and keeping an open mind.

[Winston001]

I've watched and mused about the war on drugs for a long time. Billions of dollars are spent by nations trying to block drugs and deal with the victims. Nothing works. Every decade drug use appears to become more pervasive.

The upside is most people do not become druggies.

I've come to the reluctant view that the only answer is to allow drug use to be lawful. Remove the criminal element, bring the cost down to a packet of cigarettes. No more burglaries/muggings to support a desperate habit.

Yes - we'd still have the Minnie Elders of the world, hopelessly hooked - but we already accept alcoholics who are no less damned. There are always vulnerable people.

[SS90]

Oh yea,

Poor Poor Poor Minnie Elder.....it was always the road she was going to take, she had no choice, almost child abuse really. Step father multi millionare, blessed with good looks.

What options did she have?

None!

There was no way in the world she was going to get out of the destructive loop of drugs and crime.

Everyone knows that when you have no opportunities to get a head start in life (rich good looking girls just have no chance) and the violent dangerous world of WHORING yourself out to a drug dealer (apparently) to get your $1000 a day P habit "fix" is your only option.

Poor poor girl.

She just doesn't deserve to be a good looking rich girl, and have to bear all the terrible things in life that come with it.

Her life would have been so much better if she was pig dog ugly and poor as a church mouse.

Maybe she would have gone to University and studied to become a doctor or something.

Now the poor wee dear will have to write a book or someshit like that, and have to attach her pretty ass to the coat tails of her step father and (most likely) become spokesperson of an anti drug campaign (and command appearance fees for public engagements)

My heart bleeds for ya Minnie!:violin:

And also for your step father, Paul Holmes.......... I really am sad for him, now all of New Zealand see's him as a FAILURE as a Father............when prior to this we all had pictures of him in our lounge rooms.

It's a sad sad day.

[short-circuit]

Oh yea,

Poor Poor Poor Minnie Elder.....it was always the road she was going to take, she had no choice, almost child abuse really. Step father multi millionare, blessed with good looks.

What options did she have?

None!

There was no way in the world she was going to get out of the destructive loop of drugs and crime.

Everyone knows that when you have no opportunities to get a head start in life (rich good looking girls just have no chance) and the violent dangerous world of WHORING yourself out to a drug dealer (apparently) to get your $1000 a day P habit "fix" is your only option.

Poor poor girl.

She just doesn't deserve to be a good looking rich girl, and have to bear all the terrible things in life that come with it.

Her life would have been so much better if she was pig dog ugly and poor as a church mouse.

Maybe she would have gone to University and studied to become a doctor or something.

Now the poor wee dear will have to write a book or someshit like that, and have to attach her pretty ass to the coat tails of her step father and (most likely) become spokesperson of an anti drug campaign (and command appearance fees for public engagements)

My heart bleeds for ya Minnie!:violin:

And also for your step father, Paul Holmes.......... I really am sad for him, now all of New Zealand see's him as a FAILURE as a Father............when prior to this we all had pictures of him in our lounge rooms.

It's a sad sad day.

So um.....no sympathy then

[Drunken Monkey]

Seriously, you don't mean to tell me that you actually take medication for a cold?

Yeah, seriously I do. It keeps the zombie away so I can function, otherwise I just sit at my desk and space out. Plus runny noses are disgusting, people getting their boogers everywhere groses me out and spreads the cold to the next unwitting sod. No thank you.

[The Stranger]

Yeah, seriously I do. It keeps the zombie away so I can function, otherwise I just sit at my desk and space out. Plus runny noses are disgusting, people getting their boogers everywhere groses me out and spreads the cold to the next unwitting sod. No thank you.

I stand corrected - when you put it like that the P issues pale to insignificance in comparison.

[SS90]

So um.....no sympathy then

Yea, well I guess it does sound quite uncaring, and sure, the Methanphetamine problem NZ has really does sadden me (serious).

I guess my problem in this case is that we all know that there is a HIGH chance that Paul Holmes' step daughter will get preferential treatment by the Courts.

I remember a few years ago she was in the shit with the law as well (drugs then too), & I am all for leniency when it come to "first offence" situations........ but........

Previous involvement with the law for drugs
GUILTY AS SIN on this count.....Involving "P"....and "gang connections"

Basically, if this was some poor "minority" case, she would be serving time...... the law takes a dim view on this (as it should), but, "Step Daddy" clearly paid for her to be in some "I'm so rich, I am a drug addict" programme In the express hope it will win favour with the courts.

What lesson will she learn from this?

Money will buy you happyness

OK, it is really premature to predict anything, but reading the articles (including her interviews), "Step Daddy Paul Holmes" has already made this MUCH MUCH easier on her than it Could/should have been.

Why?

He is ONLY PAUL HOLMES!

He should have no "sway" whatsoever with anyone in a position of upholding the law.

He's just a bloody over rated TV presenter/radio host (oh, hang on, he did put out an "album" once (bwbababababababa!)

So does that make him a "rock star?", and as such, catapult him into the influential sphere that us mortals can only dream of?

If so, then I will start looking for a job in radio, do a spell on local TV, then stamp out a totally SHIT HOUSE "christmas album" (I would only need to sell 25 copies or so to beat his "chart success" in the hope that my future children will benefit from my status as a "celebrity" and receive special treatment in their future.

I'm sorry than anyone is a P addict, but I am not sorry Paul Holmes is having his shit shown in public....... he did get rich at THE TAX PAYERS EXPENSE AFTER All!

Let us never forget that!

To be honest, I feel a little better that as tax payers we where giving millions each year, now that I get to watch all this play out.

I also wonder.....has Minnie ever had a job? He said himself she is on the dole......... Kind of like her step dad aye.......... when does her album,featuring the "hit song" "SUCKING HEAD HUNTER COCK FOR P" COME OUT?

I'm not wanting to draw parallels here.....but let us not forget the "Paris Hilton drunk driving" thing..... she was sentenced to some time in the slammer..........daddy "pulled strings" to get her out. (booooo!)
HOWEVER...... the Judge got wind of this, and sent Police out to the Hilton Estate to take her back to finish her sentence....... (YAY!!!!!!)

It isn't so much that she went back, MY problem is the fact that she actually got out (for a while), just because her DADDY is super rich!

I recon a few months "licking carpet" in a woman's prison would be a good thing for Paul Holmes step daughter........ they could make it into a doco (Paul Holmes voice over) and show her sobbing (like Shapel Corby) at how unfair it is etc, or maybe a few scenes where she has to hide her cell phone "somewhere secret" from the Prison Officers......

I would watch every episode.

I have sympathy for P addicts who come from lower socioeconomic situations, it is a hard circle to break (really hard), but come on........... In NZ, what better start in life could you ever hope to have than being the pretty (step) daughter of a (loosest term) "celeb"?

Pretty rich girls don't have to do much. (Paris Hilton,Nikki Watson)
Ugly ones do (Hellen Clarke,Margaret Thatcher)

[Mystic13]

As a "P" user I find it hard to stop. I've tried but even singing the Alphabet song without it is hard. It just throws me.

My life without P would mean that;

- my wife would be on the "ill".
- when I sit a test I'd be sitting there hoping for "ass".
- an ale a day would keep the doctor away.
- my speeding tickets would be written out by an "Olice" Officer. It'd be hard not to laugh.
- I'd be doing track days at "Ukekohe."

Sing with me... and try to let go of "p"

a,b,c,d
e,f,g
h,i,j,k,
l,m,n,o,....

[Drunken Monkey]

I stand corrected - when you put it like that the P issues pale to insignificance in comparison.

And don't you forget it!

[Mystic13]

Chris Rock has a great take on this stuff on his comedy skit on the columbine shooting.

He talks about the white boys doing the shooting;

"People are saying it must have been the music they were listening to. Trying to figure out what made them do it."

"If it was black kids it'd be because they were crazy, or they was BAD, or it was there parents fault. "

"These white boys said they had no friends, but there were six of them in the year book with trench coats. That's more friends than I (Chris Rock) had at high school. What happened to "crazy". These boys are crazy."

With Millie it's the same, poor girl, must have been bad influences, hooking up with the wrong people. Constantly looking for what has done this to her.

I'm with Chris Rock. Her choices, her decisions. She's been caught enough.

So the judge, most likely from Remuera but usually from an expensive suburb has Millie in front of him/her. Does he/she think of their own kids and wonders what took Millie off track and then sentences accordingly.

What is this apparent "right track" that rich kids are on.

________________________

Just doing a quick search on stuff I see she was appearing in the Waitakere court on new charges, and the Papakura court on prior charges and the Auckland District court on prior charges. Relating to drugs, and stolen property.

"(Millie) was found to have a set of methamphetamine-dusted scales in her bag when stopped by police"
"According to police, Elder said she did not know the drugs were on the scales, that she used them to weigh her gold."

Priceless.

Even though she'd been caught multitple times she'd again been released on bail and told she had to stay off the drugs and alcohol, had to make sure she carried no drug equipment or paraphernalia with her.

Tui ad please!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2388808/Millie-Elder-on-new-drugs-charges.

I wonder how many drugs charges for separate arrests you can run before the judge says I don't believe you. Apparently caught 3 times and obviously un-caught countless other times is acceptable.

My concern now is not so much poor Millie, but how many other people are dragged into "P" because of her. If you're carrying P dusted scales then that means...?

Maybe it could possibly mean...

- you're buying and selling bigger quantities?
- you're heading to or from a buy/sell?
- you're playing the game at a level other then "user"?

[SS90]

C

Just doing a quick search on stuff I see she was appearing in the Waitakere court on new charges, and the Papakura court on prior charges and the Auckland District court on prior charges. Relating to drugs, and stolen property.

"(Millie) was found to have a set of methamphetamine-dusted scales in her bag when stopped by police"
"According to police, Elder said she did not know the drugs were on the scales, that she used them to weigh her gold."

Priceless.


Weigh her gold?

teehehehehehe!

BBBBBBBuuuuuuttttt Millie...... YOUR ON THE DOLE!

How about you SELL your Gold, before you start receiving a Benefit from the tax payers?

No, I'm sorry, I now have absolutely NO RESPECT for Millie Elder.

This MUST end with her doing time!

heheheh!

WEIGH HER GOLD!

That is the best excuse I have ever heard!

WEIGH HER GOLD!

[PirateJafa]

Meth made me the mature and well-rounded individual I am today. Legalise it, share the love.

[Hitcher]

That is the best excuse I have ever heard!

"My cat must have downloaded the pr0n by walking on the keyboard, your Honour", is the best excuse I've heard recently.