Cellphones

[dpex]

This is a vexing issue.

The counter-arguments revolve around various 'other' distractions. Screaming kids, talkative passengers, girls in short dresses, the 'other' distraction list goes on. So why are cell-phones such a big issue? being the current question.

However...

There always has to be a however for the naysayers...In this case, me.

I want to make it clear that I'm into the concept of absolute freedom to do as one will so long as one does not do with the express intention of harming another.

But there is something about cell-phones which, when in use, cross the barrier between 'intended' harm and accidental harm.

I've thought about this issue for ages and I still do not understand how cell-phones pervert my road-safety, save to say, they do.

The best I can do is assert that all of the other distractions we face while driving are not quite as 'specific' as a phone conversation.

I find my mind gets locked onto the voice in my ear, and my necessary responses while driving take some sort of back-seat.

I can't quantify this. Jesus I wish I could. I'd probably make millions from it. But I can't.

What I do know is that I have experienced, numerous times, a kind've fogging out of the road ahead while I concentrate on the cell conversation.

I dunno why. But I know it happens. Somehow the voice in my ear overtakes my immediate surroundings, and I awake thinking, 'Where am I? Oh yeah. now I remember.

I conclude that it's not the conversation which is he issue. The issue somehow revolves around talking with someone outside the cage

Quite why that should be different from talking to some inside the cage is, currently, beyond my understanding. But the fact is, if I get talking on a cell, to my ear or hands-free, my concentration on the road takes a back seat.

I wish I could understand why.

[p.dath]

+1 I agree.

[grusomhat]

Any distractions that involved yourself or anyone else in the car are easily stopped when you realise that something on the road needs your attention. Passengers can see this as well and stop distracting you when the need arises (generally).

When you are involved with someone that isn't in the same place/situation as you, ie on a cellphone to someone in an office, they don't know what's happening around you. So when something bad happens, they don't know and will keep going on, and you will tend to keep listening for some odd reason.

Well that's what the news people say.

IMHO when you are talking to someone, it's easy for you to drift into limbo with the other person where nothing is happening except the cellphone. I think it's a subconscious way of making the call more personal. It's a bit more subtle than that but it exists.

[Mikkel]

Don't know if it helps you in anyway... but not everybody has it the same way, of that I can assure you.

I can only hope that you, given the realisation you line out above, have made a habit out of not using your cellphone while driving.

[Pixie]

I find my mind gets locked onto the voice in my ear, and my necessary responses while driving take some sort of back-seat.

I can't quantify this. Jesus I wish I could. I'd probably make millions from it. But I can't.



This is thought to be caused by the fact that talking to a remote person without being able to see that person's physical (body language) responses is an unatural situation and the speaker's brain does not handle it well

[Flatcap]

There are no 'companionable silences' while talking on the phone

[Big Dave]

It's not vexing at all. It's lowest common denominator-ism.

You 'might' be able to cope.

A large % of the population can't.

Get a hands free and deal with it.

[ManDownUnder]

I want to make it clear that I'm into the concept of absolute freedom to do as one will so long as one does not do with the express intention of harming another.

Did you just give drunk driving the ok?

"Sorry for knockin' ya off ya bike mate I didn't see you. I needed to get home and was being reeeeally careful..."

[CookMySock]

Any distractions that involved yourself or anyone else in the car are easily stopped when you realise that something on the road needs your attention.Read again what you have typed.

The whole reason a distraction IS a distraction, is it stops you from realising other things. You don't get both, unless you are superhuman, and yoo hooo, reality check - YOU'RE FUCKEN NOT.

This is akin to another recent thread, where apparently, some sixth-sense people can sense unseen road conditions around some blind corner. This is complete bullshit. NO PERSON can do that. It's ridiculous, and tantamount to some "I am a god" elitism bullshit.


Steve

[vifferman]

This is thought to be caused by the fact that talking to a remote person without being able to see that person's physical (body language) responses is an unatural situation and the speaker's brain does not handle it well
True, plus a very large part of the human brain is dedicated to communication, sometimes at the expense of other things.
It's interesting the people (like my son) who say that they can use their cellphone to talk or text while driving, and it doesn't affect their driving at all. This is complete and utter bullshit, because while it might be fine most of the time, it doesn't allow for emergencies and the like. Even if it only impinges on your attention to driving a little bit, it might be that little bit that makes a difference.

On the other hand, I'm a fan of personal responsibility rather than bureaucracy, and think we have too many laws, rules'n'regulations already. We should be repealing laws, not making new ones.
On the other other hand, if it means that I don't have to put up with dorks driving like they're drunk, because talking or txting on their cellphone is so life-changingly important it HAS to be done while they're in the car, well that's a good thing.

[Usarka]

--stuck record--

Hands free is no safer than hand held

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10591619


The findings have been clear: talking on a cellphone impairs driving, and similar impairments are seen with hands-free and hand-held phones.

-- bdck bdck scratch --

[p.dath]

--stuck record--

Hands free is no safer than hand held

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10591619



-- bdck bdck scratch --

I agree for the reasons given above - hands free is no safer.

[sinfull]

Nor is eating a pie safe but i will still turn the key and drive whilst eating the bloody pie !
Piesssssss mmmmm

[StoneY]

This is a vexing issue.

I've thought about this issue for ages and I still do not understand how cell-phones pervert my road-safety, save to say, they do.

I wish I could understand why.

As if the other umpteen pages of ranting on this issue is not enough! here we go again

It this SIMPLE dude-

Its another HAND you should have for driving being used- half your BRAIN is now tasked to holding the device to your godamned EAR-
And your reactions are more tuned to the phone- (primary thought track) - and your brain places DRIVING into the second current activity plane of reason- BAD FUCKIN MOVE!

Your also thinking of the incoming conversation and the replies- another 25% of your COGNITIVE mind (the one OPERATING that guided missile your driving in)
Say you have answered a call- congrats- you now have less than 25% of your cognitive consious mind tasked on the road and vehicle control-

Its a no brainer- CELLPHONES distract the drivers- and DANGEROUSLY so

Why is it that so many otherwise sensible intellegent people are so upset that hand held cellphones are being banned in cars- its only the DRIVER thats affected and rightly so-

Wanna use ya cellphone while on the move take the bus- stay off my roads

Now- I hope you 'understand' like any resonable person who can get past thier own 'im so awesome at multitasking it cant affect me' attitude

Driving is a privellege NOT a god given right- and NZ is over 15 YEARS behind the rest of the developed world in banning hand helds

:mega:

[Jizah]

I always find I concentrate so much on the call because of poor call quality, and when only using one ear to hear it's actually quite hard to understand what someone is saying, especially with all the background noise on both ends.

[jim.cox]

Saw a good one on the way to work today.

Black Porsche

She (the passenger) is putting on eye liner

And he's driving one handed with the batphone held to his ear

FugWitz...

[CookMySock]

Nor is eating a pie safeOnly problem I have ever had with a pie, is when I see some funny shit and the pie comes out my nose. Ya gotta watch that.

Steve

[mister.koz]

I reckon (speculation with no real foundation) that the handsfree caveat was put in because allot of people use cellphones while driving for their work (couriers, taxi's, cops etc). Its a bit like the "not allowed to pertrude sharp objects" rule with cars, then you see one of those glassies with 10s of square metres of plate glass out in the open.

There's lots of "counter arguments" to not using cellphones and all of them lack simple common sense. Super human or not cellphones are a serious distraction....

The best seatbelt argument i heard was: "i should be able to drive without a seat belt because my cousin's step-grandad knew this guy who's neibour's brother's step son was thrown from his car when he went down a cliff and he survived, all because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt"

Regardless of how able someone is to drive with distractions how does a cop identify this? they can't so thats why they create simple rules like this one.

I don't drive while talking on the phone because i know that i can't focus on the road and i am not about to have faith in the common Neanderthal in the car next to me who is talking on the phone. 1/2 of the people i see on the road can concentrate on driving AND breathing, let alone with a cell phone thrown into the mix....

[Big Dave]

If you thinks hands free is no safer - you mustn't ride where I ride.
Morons too busy holding a phone to their ear to use an indicator FFS.

[PrincessBandit]

It's ridiculous, and tantamount to some "I am a god" elitism bullshit.

Steve

But I am a goddess (as well as a princess)!


If you thinks hands free is no safer - you mustn't ride where I ride.
Morons too busy holding a phone to their ear to use an indicator FFS.

Don't know about you Big Dave, but I see morons all the time who don't use their indicators and they don't even have a phone up to their ear. Wonder what their excuse is if it isn't the big bad mobile.

[Big Dave]

But I am a goddess (as well as a princess)!



Don't know about you Big Dave, but I see morons all the time who don't use their indicators and they don't even have a phone up to their ear. Wonder what their excuse is if it isn't the big bad mobile.

Yer kiddin'. I had some dick pull out on me yesterday - black z car - away with the pixies yappin' on a mobile - and eating. He was steering partly with his elbow. The only way he could have operated an indicator was with his nose. I'm talking about him - and dozens more like him.

[Usarka]

If you thinks hands free is no safer - you mustn't ride where I ride.
Morons too busy holding a phone to their ear to use an indicator FFS.

I'd suggest if you take the phone away they'd still be morons!

[Big Dave]

I'd suggest if you take the phone away they'd still be morons!

With one less distraction and an extra limb. Hold phone - breathe - hold phone - breathe.

I lived in Sydney with about 4 million people when this law was introduced. It made motorcycling noticeably less stressful. I can spank on for 500 words as to why but *you* mr biscuits can just take my word for it that the difference was palpable. You'll see :-0

[jaymzw]

I think we should look at the bigger problem here.

Talking whilst riding.

Try that!

[Trouser]

The only time I have crashed was when perving at a girl in a short skirt. True story.

[Big Dave]

The only time I have crashed was when perving at a girl in a short skirt. True story.


Respec <tenchars> </tenchars>

[dpex]

As if the other umpteen pages of ranting on this issue is not enough! here we go again

It this SIMPLE dude-

Its another HAND you should have for driving being used- half your BRAIN is now tasked to holding the device to your godamned EAR-
And your reactions are more tuned to the phone- (primary thought track) - and your brain places DRIVING into the second current activity plane of reason- BAD FUCKIN MOVE!

Your also thinking of the incoming conversation and the replies- another 25% of your COGNITIVE mind (the one OPERATING that guided missile your driving in)
Say you have answered a call- congrats- you now have less than 25% of your cognitive consious mind tasked on the road and vehicle control-

Its a no brainer- CELLPHONES distract the drivers- and DANGEROUSLY so

Why is it that so many otherwise sensible intellegent people are so upset that hand held cellphones are being banned in cars- its only the DRIVER thats affected and rightly so-

Wanna use ya cellphone while on the move take the bus- stay off my roads

Now- I hope you 'understand' like any resonable person who can get past thier own 'im so awesome at multitasking it cant affect me' attitude

Driving is a privellege NOT a god given right- and NZ is over 15 YEARS behind the rest of the developed world in banning hand helds

:mega:

Within what appears to be a drunken rant, exists a few nuggets of truth.

But I say again. I don't understand why a cell-call distracts me to the level I know it does. I just know it does. So I don't do cell-calls.

But hey, my response could be an age thing, or all manner of other thing which doesn't affect others. Except when, especially when old Zimmer, I hove alongside some goon or gooness with a cell clamped to their ear, I just know they have zoned out from the current reality. I can see it. They're rabbiting on and what's actually around them is only just in their peripheral conscious.

I say, ban all cell use, seriously singe all in-car cell users with flame, and burn all catholic cell-users.

Nar. When I think about it, just burn all catholics. That should result in at least a 10% reduction in cell-use on the roads given catholics are always on the phone to someone.

Better yet, burning all catholics would increase the world glut on wine, so the price will fall, the cost of cell-calls would rise (restricting use) and the Ayatolla might pay the burners.

Works for me.

[FJRider]

Read again what you have typed.

The whole reason a distraction IS a distraction, is it stops you from realising other things. You don't get both.

Its akin to trying to watch your favourite tv program, and chatting to your nearest and dearest on the phone at the same time. At times you miss seconds of each ... seconds, you later wish you didn't miss ...

Driving ... you cant just hit a record button....

[monkeymcbean]

Saw a good one on the way to work today.

Black Porsche

She (the passenger) is putting on eye liner

And he's driving one handed with the batphone held to his ear

FugWitz...

Yes, if im in the cage, and notice this happening behind me a long touch of the brakes usually interrupts this behaviour, i try to play fair most of the time though!:Pokey:

[Mikkel]

Hands free is no safer than hand held

They will argue that until the cows come home...

However, it's pretty fucking hard to text when the phone is mounted in a handsfree mount. (Not that I doubt there will be some fuckwits who'll need to try it out though.)

Also, I dare assume that only few people who doesn't use a cellphone while driving as part of their job will flush out on a proper handsfree setup. I am also pretty certain that if you talk on your phone, while driving, as part of your daily routine you will become better at it than the person who is bored during the commute and wants to plan friday night out on town...

If you ban handsfree communication in motorvehicles you might as well ban taxis, buses, trucks, ambulances, policecars, firetrucks, etc...

[p.dath]

They will argue that until the cows come home...
...

I don't think there is much argument. I just tried searching Google to find a report that has been done that argues hands free kits are just as safe.

Couldn't find one.

I'm sure there must be one somewhere. But while doing the search you run across a huge number of studies that found the opposite - that hands free kits are just as dangerous.

The evidence is overwhelming in the research studies - and it is all heading in one direction. Any use of a cell phone while driving impairs your ability to drive safely.

[Big Dave]

I don't think there is much argument. I just tried searching Google to find a report that has been done that argues hands free kits are just as safe.

Couldn't find one.

I'm sure there must be one somewhere. But while doing the search you run across a huge number of studies that found the opposite - that hands free kits are just as dangerous.

The evidence is overwhelming in the research studies - and it is all heading in one direction. Any use of a cell phone while driving impairs your ability to drive safely.

How many more examples would you like me to cite limb-wise? I got plenty :-)

You ever had a driving lesson? Where did they tell you to put your hands on the wheel and how many? You put any extra device into the 10 to 2 equation on the steering wheel and its down hill. And that's just for starters.

It's got to be safer just from an emergency control standpoint.

[p.dath]

How many more examples would you like me to cite limb-wise? I got plenty :-)

You ever had a driving lesson? Where did they tell you to put your hands on the wheel and how many? You put any extra device into the 10 to 2 equation on the steering wheel and its down hill. And that's just for starters.

It's got to be safer just from an emergency control standpoint.

The key issue with cell phone calls is our brains inability to both communicate over the cell phone while maintaining our concentration on the driving.

The issue is not with our holding of the cell phone per-see.

Granted, not holding onto a phone means at least your hands can do something to assist with operating the vehicle. I agree with that.
But the studies have indicated that the bigger cause of accidents has not been related to the holding of the phone, but with the lack of concentration that results from using the phone.

[Big Dave]

Yeah - I take what you are saying too - but disaster on a sliding scale is still disaster.

You are arguing the mental angle - I'm condemning the merely physical aspect.

Apart from that - the issues that effect me most are now to do with texting and reading texts while driving.

[Jizah]

I think we should look at the bigger problem here.

Talking whilst riding.

Try that!

I do this already. A flip phone holds quite nicely under an open faced helmet.

[Max Preload]

Yer kiddin'. I had some dick pull out on me yesterday - black z car - away with the pixies yappin' on a mobile - and eating. He was steering partly with his elbow. The only way he could have operated an indicator was with his nose. I'm talking about him - and dozens more like him.

That was already covered by failing to give way & careless driving. No new regulation was needed - they just need to Police the existing ones.

[monkeymcbean]

That was already covered by failing to give way & careless driving. No new regulation was needed - they just need to Police the existing ones.

You miss the point, its all very fine charging people with careless driving after the aftermath, but by banning hand held cellphone use when driving their cars you are taking preventive action and sending a strong message that using cell phones when driving is fucking dangerous.
People who use cellphones when driving are a bunch of (as Al Swearengen would call them)... 'hoppleheads'.

[Big Dave]

That was already covered by failing to give way & careless driving. No new regulation was needed - they just need to Police the existing ones.

Why was he careless and failed to give way? Because he was yapping on a mobile phone. That's why it's needed. Treats the cause not the effect.

[Max Preload]

Why was he careless and failed to give way? Because he was yapping on a mobile phone. That's why it's needed. Treats the cause not the effect.

No. He was careless because he wasn't paying due attention to driving. That could be for any reason.

But if that is your position then I'd think you'd advocate 'careless use' being removed and only specific offences added.