What to expect when running 98?

[BASS-TREBLE]

It's monday night and I'm bored...
What would be a noticeable difference when I change from 91 to 98 octane?

Stock carbed FZR apart from the can.

[NDORFN]

It's monday night and I'm bored...
What would be a noticeable difference when I change from 91 to 98 octane?

Stock carbed FZR apart from the can.

Power... noticable mostly because you expect to notice it. Do a timed run down a straight stretch of road on 91 and again on 98 to be scientific. Mightn't make a measurable difference at all.

[ready4whatever]

better mileage, although darer. try 95

[1wheel riot]

in the long run it will cost you the same. it will take 2 or 3 tanks be for you see much diff but it keeps the motor cleaner you get more power and more km per leter i use it in my crf cbr integra and falcon.

[johan]

Hi!

I'd like to learn about this octane thing, I might gain a few seconds at the track!?

How come I get better milage and power with higher octane?

cheers

[McDuck]

Hi!

I'd like to learn about this octane thing, I might gain a few seconds at the track!?

How come I get better milage and power with higher octane?

cheers

It is somthing to do with the fact that the engine can compress it more therefore being able to get more power out of it.

Sombody who knows about it will be along soon :)

[onearmedbandit]

To get any real noticeable increase from higher octane takes an engine in a state of tune that requires higher octane, ie increased compression ratio, ignition advance, etc etc.

Whether it burns cleaner as the marketing says someone who knows more than me will be able to fill us in.

[MaxB]

It's monday night and I'm bored...
What would be a noticeable difference when I change from 91 to 98 octane?

Stock carbed FZR apart from the can.

Run it on what the handbook says.

If you really have to know put a tank of 91, 95 and 98 through your bike and see what (if any) difference you get. Then work out if the extra ks per tank is worth the price difference to you.

[F5 Dave]

It is somthing to do with the fact that the engine can compress it more therefore being able to get more power out of it.
. . .

Unless your engine knows that it needs to compress it further & can morph this transformation then of course it can't compress it any more.

If it could then it would make a difference. More compression usually leads to a higher BMEP. Sort of. Ignition timing is a factor as well.

Octane isn't a measurement of calorific energy & it is well possible to have a lower energy fuel with a higher octane rating.

But like with any comparison most people will subconsciously alter their riding habits to reap more power/mileage or whatever & thus the internet knowledge is written.

On the other hand some bikes close to the limit can gain, most will be no better & often worse.


Burn cleaner? What a laugh. Marketing bumph.

[AllanB]

I cannot notice any difference between 91 or 95 on my 900 - owners book says 87 plus or something. Honda shop says 91. Compared to a sports bike my engine is in a mild state of tune so anything over 91 is probably a waste of money.
Sometimes I mix it up just to see if there is any difference yet :woohoo:Secretly I am waiting for that turbo effect the adverts imply with rose petals flying out the exhaust pipes.

[CookMySock]

What would be a noticeable difference when I change from 91 to 98 octane?Nothing. Unless you have a really high-compression engine you won't notice anything.

I get better range on 95 or 98 octane. 280km vs 330km ish to a tank.

Steve

[dogsnbikes]

have tried all the octanes with the daytona and the results were as on a 17.5 litre tank and a top open road speed of 110kph

98=341kms

95=262kms

91=227kms

triumph also recommends that the bike is running a mimumin of 95 octane on standard factory settings
so I run 98 when ever possible

[Hitcher]

What would be a noticeable difference when I change from 91 to 98 octane?


Fuck all difference from switching to 96, apart from the ludicrous price premium.

And V-Power wasn't invented by Ferrari. It comes out of the same drum as everybody else's 96.

[nallac]

have tried all the octanes with the daytona and the results were as on a 17.5 litre tank and a top open road speed of 110kph

98=341kms

95=262kms

91=227kms



How the Hell can you get an extra 120 k's out of a tank between 91 and 98
fuel?????... was it the same sort of trip and riding?.

[dogsnbikes]

How the Hell can you get an extra 120 k's out of a tank between 91 and 98
fuel?????... was it the same sort of trip and riding?.

because the mapping of the ECU favours the higher octane

the trip always the same roads which I use to do alot of for 2 years was Commuting from umutoi(60ks north of palmerston north) to wgtn 210ks each way

[MaxB]

because the mapping of the ECU favours the higher octane

the trip always the same roads which I use to do alot of for 2 years was Commuting from umutoi(60ks north of palmerston north) to wgtn 210ks each way

I use 98 to extend my tank range. Proven many, many times. It gives me another 80 kms per tank. According to the owners club the optimal octane for my carburettor ZZR is 94 RON. It will run on 91 but likes 95.

I notice one thing about your bike and Dogs' Trumpy. The compression ratios are 12:1. Mine is 11:1. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

[The Stranger]

It's monday night and I'm bored...
What would be a noticeable difference when I change from 91 to 98 octane?

Stock carbed FZR apart from the can.

5-10% more power AND better fuel economy too. It's a win-win situation.
Run synthetic oil in your engine and WD40 on your chain for even better results.

[Two Smoker]

98 is way better than 91... coz its a higher number... it must be!

[SARGE]

What would be a noticeable difference when I change from 91 to 98 octane?

.

your wallet will become 10% lighter ..

SFA on a stock bike .. get a hi comp big bore and advance the timing to really see anything ..

[vifferman]

Yerp.
You're going to get the most power from your motor running the minimum octane rating recommended for it. You may get cleaner running from 98, as it supposedly has some extra additives that can clean your fuel system. I'm running 98 at the moment (just a couple of tanks full) for that very reason. In the past I've run it to stop the engine pinking when hot (in summer), and when running advanced ignition timing and extra fuelling at high revs/full throttle.
Did I get more power?
Dunno - how often can you run full throttle and 8500+ rpm on the street?

I think there's a lot of confusion with octane rating, because people know that some racebikes (and most dragsters/dragbikes) run higher octane gas. However (but!) that's to stop the engines exploding because they're running sustained hig revs, high compression, and advanced ignition timing. If they could do all that AND run lower octane pump gas, they would.
Octane rating is more or less a number describing resistance to knocking (pre-ignition). If your vehicle isn't set up with a knock sensor and/or some kind of advanced engine management such as VVT, then it can't take advantage of running different octane fuels.

Interestingly (or perhaps not), the vifferbabe's Peugeot isn't particularly high performance (137bhp/2 litre), yet it really does not like running anything other than 98, and knocks like a ....a... knocking sonofabitch.. on anything else.

[StoneY]

My gixxeR (carbed bike) gains about 30kmh a tank on 98 over 91-
My Duc- (EFI bike) gains well over 100kmh in range when using the higher octane

If you do the math- my gixxeR is gaining nothing- utterly nothing- mileage cancelled by price and I can detect no power gain at all that is noticeable

the Duc is a significant saving running on the higher octane and also a measurable power increase-
I cross Mt Wainui daily- at 5,500 rpm in 3rd the Duc does 90kmh up the hill on 91-
On 98 octane I get 100Kmh for the same engine revolutions
I gain over 100km's in range as well if I fill with 98- and seemingly even more from Gull brands Bio Fuel mixture- (50/50 bio and oil) go figure!

Far from a scientific study, but I think like others have said above- high compression motors and EFI are likely to have a more significant differential of performance in regards to octane level of the fuel- carburetted motors dont seem to be AS affected - and that seems logical to me as the fuel mixture of carburetion is less exact

[The Stranger]

I cross Mt Wainui daily- at 5,500 rpm in 3rd the Duc does 90kmh up the hill on 91-
On 98 octane I get 100Kmh for the same engine revolutions


Hmm, you perhaps could have got away with your piss take if not for this gem.

[nallac]

Dunno - how often can you run full throttle and 8500+ rpm on the street?


Ummmmm,lots...thats why my bike guzzles gas....

[Mom]

So, if you have experienced a noticable improvement in performance from moving from 91 to 96, is 98 going to give even more? Not talking about gas/mileage here for the minute, just engine performance. Think mature bike here.

[vifferman]

So, if you have experienced a noticable improvement in performance from moving from 91 to 96, is 98 going to give even more? Not talking about gas/mileage here for the minute, just engine performance. Think mature bike here.
Perhaps. The key thing is the 98 is imported from Perth and is supposedly a better quality witches brew than the 96 swill from the Marsden refinery, which is basically the 91 with added paint brush cleaner. My feelings are somewhat tarnished by the poor performance of the 96 in the wife's car, and the execerable experience I had when I ignored the mechanics at Red Baron and put 95 in my VFR750. It sooted up the tiny wee spockingploog electrodes and ran like an absolute bastid. Never used it in a bike since.

[Mom]

Perhaps. The key thing is the 98 is imported from Perth and is supposedly a better quality witches brew than the 96 swill from the Marsden refinery, which is basically the 91 with added paint brush cleaner. My feelings are somewhat tarnished by the poor performance of the 96 in the wife's car, and the execerable experience I had when I ignored the mechanics at Red Baron and put 95 in my VFR750. It sooted up the tiny wee spockingploog electrodes and ran like an absolute bastid. Never used it in a bike since.

Well you see I also share your opinion of the locally produced "high" octane petrol, it is not as good as the ordinary petrol we used to buy back in the olden days. As a result I have used 91 in all my vehicles for years. Now while I am not very scientific about gas/mileage stats I have for the past couple of months been testing my stupid old bomb of a car (lets call her the rollerskate) distance travelled against fuel purchased. The rollerskate is an early '90's, 2 door Mazda hatch, 1500 cc engine, should run on the smell of an oily rag right? Not so, some fills lucky to get 10 km/ltr. Some fills I can get 15 km/ltr. Nothing different in the way I am driving, same commute each day. I put it down to the petrol, my research continues.

Now my blue lovely has some fuelling issues. Have always used 91 in her and have not really had any issues but...

She runs appallingly when asked to behave out on the open road at hard throttle. Starves for fuel, bogs, runs on 3 cylinders any and all of the above. Makes for a frustrating journey. I have not had the time to pull things apart to have a look and have tended to leave her at home if we are heading out any great distance. I have a proven distance travelled of 200-220 kms before reserve, but this has fallen to 180 or even less.

We went out for a ride last weekend, I took my blue lovely as I was desperate to get out for a ride. For some reason (perhaps fuelled :blip: by my rollerskate research) I decided to run 96 in the blue lovely. Now I had 1/2 a tank when I topped her up before we left. Zooming along I was pleasantly surprised to find she did not play up very much at all, slight loss of power at times but nothing like it has been. Refuelled at a g.a.s. station while we were out and spent the rest of my journey actually trying to get her to misbehave. I asked some serious questions of her performance under hard and sustained throttle and she did not skip a beat! Has the higher octance gas made this difference? What if I went 98? I am seriously considering (not really but I have thought about it) buying some Av gas and giving an octane boost to the tank. I work in an aviation company so it is not out of the questin to buy it.

Now all I have to do is see what the gas/mileage figures do. Interesting stuff.

[johan]

I'd be interesting to know the atmospheric changes when you measure the distance of a tank of fuel. (pressure, amb temp, humidity, pressure altitude.)

I'm pretty sure the difference between a good and bad day can easily be 10% in power output. Ask the fly boys...

[MIXONE]

All I know is that all my vehicles get approx 15% more miles from a tank when running 98.Seat of the pants tells me that it is more low end grunt.
As for the Mobil shit I get nothing but grief so I stay well away from it.

[Hahn]

Well you see I also share your opinion of the locally produced "high" octane petrol, it is not as good as the ordinary petrol we used to buy back in the olden days. As a result I have used 91 in all my vehicles for years. Now while I am not very scientific about gas/mileage stats I have for the past couple of months been testing my stupid old bomb of a car (lets call her the rollerskate) distance travelled against fuel purchased. The rollerskate is an early '90's, 2 door Mazda hatch, 1500 cc engine, should run on the smell of an oily rag right? Not so, some fills lucky to get 10 km/ltr. Some fills I can get 15 km/ltr. Nothing different in the way I am driving, same commute each day. I put it down to the petrol, my research continues.

Now my blue lovely has some fuelling issues. Have always used 91 in her and have not really had any issues but...

She runs appallingly when asked to behave out on the open road at hard throttle. Starves for fuel, bogs, runs on 3 cylinders any and all of the above. Makes for a frustrating journey. I have not had the time to pull things apart to have a look and have tended to leave her at home if we are heading out any great distance. I have a proven distance travelled of 200-220 kms before reserve, but this has fallen to 180 or even less.

We went out for a ride last weekend, I took my blue lovely as I was desperate to get out for a ride. For some reason (perhaps fuelled :blip: by my rollerskate research) I decided to run 96 in the blue lovely. Now I had 1/2 a tank when I topped her up before we left. Zooming along I was pleasantly surprised to find she did not play up very much at all, slight loss of power at times but nothing like it has been. Refuelled at a g.a.s. station while we were out and spent the rest of my journey actually trying to get her to misbehave. I asked some serious questions of her performance under hard and sustained throttle and she did not skip a beat! Has the higher octance gas made this difference? What if I went 98? I am seriously considering (not really but I have thought about it) buying some Av gas and giving an octane boost to the tank. I work in an aviation company so it is not out of the questin to buy it.

Now all I have to do is see what the gas/mileage figures do. Interesting stuff.

Av gas will see a very noticeable rise in power out of your bike but, isn't recommended... unless you want to burn out piston rings etc etc and only have too rebuild your engine later on. Av gas is also leaded, can your bike handle leaded fuel? From memory, and correct me if wrong lead is used to boost octane up to 130 which regular unleaded can only reach 100 (or 98 at the pump). Even "Low lead AV Gas" still contains lead.


I'd be interesting to know the atmospheric changes when you measure the distance of a tank of fuel. (pressure, amb temp, humidity, pressure altitude.)

I'm pretty sure the difference between a good and bad day can easily be 10% in power output. Ask the fly boys...

They will have some effect on fuel economy (cold winter day/ hot summer day), its all about air density. But for a vehicle down here, the biggest decider would be traffic volume (starting/stopping etc) in your commute.
An engine, more so EFI, will adjust itself for your fuel.
Generally the higher the octane the better power/economy (less fuel needed for same output), but this is only really noticeable on long open road drives or rides. In town you will probably just have a bigger hole in your wallet (maybe even worse economy just because of the way city driving/riding is).

If the bike is running right, probably could do with the carbs having a clean out and a tune up.

Take that with a grain of salt, been a few years since I learned that stuff. Just fixin' planes now, we use AV Tur (kerosene).:headbang:

[Hahn]

The rollerskate is an early '90's, 2 door Mazda hatch, 1500 cc engine, should run on the smell of an oily rag right? Not so, some fills lucky to get 10 km/ltr. Some fills I can get 15 km/ltr. Nothing different in the way I am driving, same commute each day. I put it down to the petrol, my research continues.

Now my blue lovely has some fuelling issues. Have always used 91 in her and have not really had any issues but...

She runs appallingly when asked to behave out on the open road at hard throttle. Starves for fuel, bogs, runs on 3 cylinders any and all of the above. Makes for a frustrating journey. I have not had the time to pull things apart to have a look and have tended to leave her at home if we are heading out any great distance. I have a proven distance travelled of 200-220 kms before reserve, but this has fallen to 180 or even less.

We went out for a ride last weekend, I took my blue lovely as I was desperate to get out for a ride. For some reason (perhaps fuelled :blip: by my rollerskate research) I decided to run 96 in the blue lovely. Now I had 1/2 a tank when I topped her up before we left. Zooming along I was pleasantly surprised to find she did not play up very much at all, slight loss of power at times but nothing like it has been. Refuelled at a g.a.s. station while we were out and spent the rest of my journey actually trying to get her to misbehave. I asked some serious questions of her performance under hard and sustained throttle and she did not skip a beat! Has the higher octance gas made this difference? What if I went 98? I am seriously considering (not really but I have thought about it) buying some Av gas and giving an octane boost to the tank. I work in an aviation company so it is not out of the questin to buy it.

Now all I have to do is see what the gas/mileage figures do. Interesting stuff.

Av gas will see a very noticeable rise in power out of your bike but, isn't recommended... unless you want to burn out piston rings etc etc and only have too rebuild your engine later on. Av gas is also leaded, can your bike handle leaded fuel? From memory, and correct me if wrong lead is used to boost octane up to 130 which regular unleaded can only reach 100 (or 98 at the pump). Even "Low lead AV Gas" still contains lead.


I'd be interesting to know the atmospheric changes when you measure the distance of a tank of fuel. (pressure, amb temp, humidity, pressure altitude.)

I'm pretty sure the difference between a good and bad day can easily be 10% in power output. Ask the fly boys...

They will have some effect on fuel economy (cold winter day/ hot summer day), its all about air density. But for a vehicle down here, the biggest decider would be traffic volume (starting/stopping etc) in your commute.
An engine, more so EFI, will adjust itself for your fuel.
Generally the higher the octane the better power/economy (less fuel needed for same output), but this is only really noticeable on long open road drives or rides. In town you will probably just have a bigger hole in your wallet (maybe even worse economy just because of the way city driving/riding is).

If the bike is running right, probably could do with the carbs having a clean out and a tune up.

Take that with a grain of salt, been a few years since I learned that stuff. Just fixin' planes now, we use AV Tur (kerosene).:headbang:

[Hahn]

Sorry about double post!
:clap:
too many characters my ass!

[F5 Dave]

Av gas will see a very noticeable rise in power out of your bike but, isn't recommended... unless you want to burn out piston rings etc etc and only have too rebuild your engine later on. Av gas is also leaded, can your bike handle leaded fuel? From memory, and correct me if wrong lead is used to boost octane up to 130 which regular unleaded can only reach 100 (or 98 at the pump). Even "Low lead AV Gas" still contains lead.


I think this classifies for Viffs thread ramble on posting utter absolute shite as if they were facts. What a lot of cowpoos! Seriously. What made you post that? Are you the Stranger incognito just trolling bollocks thinking they are funny or did you believe that rubbish you just posted.

[StoneY]

Hmm, you perhaps could have got away with your piss take if not for this gem.

Piss take my ass- its a fact
I gain 10kmh on the hill simply by using 98- and get better range- as your not riding my bike you can speculate allyou like - it me who is on the seat

[The Stranger]

Piss take my ass- its a fact
I gain 10kmh on the hill simply by using 98- and get better range- as your not riding my bike you can speculate allyou like - it me who is on the seat

There is a direct mechanical relationship between your crankshaft and your wheel. For every 1,000 rotations of your crank, your wheel moves around a set number of rotations. This can NOT be changed by fuel alone.

So NO your bike does NOT go faster "for the same engine revolutions" on 98 (fuel being the only change) this is quite impossible.

So YES you are absolutely full of it.

[Hahn]

I think this classifies for Viffs thread ramble on posting utter absolute shite as if they were facts. What a lot of cowpoos! Seriously. What made you post that? Are you the Stranger incognito just trolling bollocks thinking they are funny or did you believe that rubbish you just posted.

Like I said, correct if wrong, its been a while but.
quote: "The particular mixtures in use today are the same as when they were first developed in the 1950s and 1960s, and therefore the high-octane ratings are achieved by the addition of tetra-ethyl lead (TEL), a highly toxic substance that was phased out for car use in most countries in the late 20th century.

Avgas is currently available in several grades with differing maximum lead concentrations. Since TEL is a rather expensive additive, a minimum amount of it is typically added to the fuel to bring it up to the required octane rating so actual concentrations are often lower than the maximum."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas

For what ever shitipeadias worth....
But hey what ever...

Maybe your talking about the first part, go and thrash an engine on av gas... see how long it lasts. That said, lead is the biggest issue. cat converters just love it.

[SixPackBack]

Piss take my ass- its a fact
I gain 10kmh on the hill simply by using 98- and get better range- as your not riding my bike you can speculate allyou like - it me who is on the seat

.........you be trippin' wigger:Pokey:

[F5 Dave]

The bit I objected to as drivel was . . .


Av gas will see a very noticeable rise in power out of your bike but, isn't recommended... unless you want to burn out piston rings etc etc and only have too rebuild your engine later on. Av gas is also leaded, can your bike handle leaded fuel?. . .

If I was shirty it was because you presented it as some sort of fact, sorry if I was short but it is indeed utter bollocks.

There are a zillion race bikes around the world running on Av Gas (for better or worse, that's another story), but typically they will not show any increase in power in std form. That said if a bike is running a high compression ratio (most aren't, with exceptions of some european brands like BMW & Triumph) & they have modern ECUs they will optimise the ignition timing to suit. Many (most) probably won't.

But the biggest load of cobblers was that some how it will 'burn out your rings etc" Please explain by what mechanism this is possible? You have the whole internet at your disposal.



. . .
. . ., go and thrash an engine on av gas... see how long it lasts.. .

Gee I've been running my racebikes (highly modified to take the advantage of higher octane) for nigh on 20 years. They wear as quickly on Av as they did when we had to run on pump gas.


. . .
. . ., go and thrash an engine on av gas... see how long it lasts.. .
By what mechanism please? Does it burn hot enough to 'burn the rings? Is it worse for friction so it wears them out? Worse than pump gas?

Go ahead, please explain. The silence will be deathly. . .

And I don't mean by referring to some someone talking on an internet forum.

And I'm not talking about damage the lead will cause to your Cadillac converter (that's the part that turns your sportbike into a gas guzzling American luxury car, you read it here).

Or admit & quietly retract your statement please.

[Hahn]

That said if a bike is running a high compression ratio (most aren't, with exceptions of some european brands like BMW & Triumph) & they have modern ECUs they will optimise the ignition timing to suit. Many (most) probably won't.



ahh thats the bit i was missing, although i did say efi will adjust....

As for the other, your right. thrashing on any fuel will be the same.
changing compression ratios, (hotting up engines...) that will result in faster wear...
(notes to self, people can't read whats not typed)
Sorry had to get up especially early this morning

[manicmedic]

1, cheap fuel goes in (well reletively).
2, bike runs.
3, smile happens.
4, smile ends when out of fuel so I repeat from 1.

Just run the bike, don't get too heated about it (excuse the pun) and enjoy the nice weather.

My bike has the lowest tech engine of all so I am prepared to be shot down but then I don't care.

Manic

[mossy1200]

FZR1000 has fixed ignition timing and not very high compression.98 is to high.
mine runs well on 95 and it is the next year up (exup) with 12;1 compression.
Yours will be 11.3;1 and even further retarded so 91 will most likely deliver the same or more horses.
Lower octaine has a faster flash time and older bikes with ignition retarded will run better on low octaine fuel.

FZR1000 does not have an ignition plate that can be turned to advance and there is no way to install an off centre key lock plate either.Pickup comes from a fixed position.It is possible to do housing work then construct an adjustable plate but the gains outway the work involved.
A better mod is adjustable cam sprockets and getting valve timing correct as being 22 years old the cam chain will be stretched and valve timing will be out.

[Kevnz]

[QUOTE=manicmedic;1129375748]1, cheap fuel goes in (well reletively).
2, bike runs.
3, smile happens.
4, smile ends when out of fuel so I repeat from 1.

I'm with the Manic dude:headbang:

[Mom]

can your bike handle leaded fuel?

Well yes, my blue lovely is not a modern bike.


As for the Mobil shit I get nothing but grief so I stay well away from it.

Interesting comment. We dont get a hell of a choice in this town for petrol providers. Mobil or Shell. I almost never go into the Mobil, reasons too many to name, but there have been a couple of times. Why do you say no to Mobil?


But the biggest load of cobblers was that some how it will 'burn out your rings etc"

Well that I am pleased to read. It has been many years since I have been around bikes running on Av gas, but it was and probably is still very common. I dont remember any particular issues with the engines running it either.

My comment was actually a bit tongue in cheek really. The thread is about what happens when you run higher octane gas. I have noticed a performance gain between 91 and 96. I wondered if more is better or not?

I have a 1991 inline 4 engine with no fancy fuel management system. I have one carb per cylinder fed by vacuum from the fuel tank. Well the carbs suck and the tank delivers.

Fuel/mileage increases will be the next discovery.

[Owl]

have tried all the octanes with the daytona and the results were as on a 17.5 litre tank and a top open road speed of 110kph

98=341kms

95=262kms

91=227kms

triumph also recommends that the bike is running a mimumin of 95 octane on standard factory settings
so I run 98 when ever possible

That's bloody interesting Barry. I've only run the S3 on 95-98 and found I get slightly better economy on 95. Also, throttle response seems to be a little less urgent when using 98. Still, it ain't no Daytona!

Must be the fairings!:whistle: