Drive chain versus drive belt?

[p.dath]

Why do some bikes use chains and some use belts?

It is just a price thing, or do they both have advantages?

[Hitcher]

Gahh! Thud.

[The Stranger]

Why do some bikes use chains and some use belts?

It is just a price thing, or do they both have advantages?

They dont want to use a chain, but as everyone knows, shaft drive bikes can't wheelie, so they us a belt instead.

[Two Smoker]

They dont want to use a chain, but as everyone knows, shaft drive bikes can't wheelie, so they us a belt instead.

Bet you d-pex could wheelie the shaft drive... or dipshit might be able too aswell... apparently they are awesome...

[Subike]

They dont want to use a chain, but as everyone knows, shaft drive bikes can't wheelie, so they us a belt instead.

I guess somebody forgot to tell my XS1100 that

[The Stranger]

Bet you d-pex could wheelie the shaft drive... or dipshit might be able too aswell... apparently they are awesome...

Nah, my shaft don't rotate.

[The Stranger]

I guess somebody forgot to tell my XS1100 that

No way, it's against the laws of physics - photos or it didn't happen.

[Two Smoker]

Nah, my shaft don't rotate.

Im sure you would like them to ratate on your shaft...

[p.dath]

I didn't even realise they made two wheel bikes with an actual drive shaft, or is someone taking the micky?

[Hitcher]

Scotty? Please beam me up. Now.

[Motu]

You can't chrome a chain and wear it on your jacket.It's called a soft option...but they are suitable for dentures.

[The Stranger]

I didn't even realise they made two wheel bikes with an actual drive shaft, or is someone taking the micky?

Gahh! Thud.

Many beemers, various hondas and assorted tourers are shaft drive mostly.

[Subike]

not mine but seeing you asked.

belt drives are meant to be smoother in the power delivery and quieter.

cains wear and throw crap all over the place

shafties just keep on doing it with LITTLE TO NO MAINTENANCE

[Big Dave]

I didn't even realise they made two wheel bikes with an actual drive shaft, or is someone taking the micky?

Most manufacturers offer shaft drive vehicles currently and most offer belt or chain driven alternatives too.

Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Shafts are the easiest to live with and heaviest and clunky-ist.

Chains are strong and messy and have differing service intervals.

Belts are clean and smooth and light and wear longer - but are much less resilient.

[Two Smoker]

shafties just keep on doing it with LITTLE TO NO MAINTENANCE

Pity they weigh a million tonnes...

[The Stranger]

not mine but seeing you asked.

belt drives are meant to be smoother in the power delivery and quieter.

cains wear and throw crap all over the place

shafties just keep on doing it with LITTLE TO NO MAINTENANCE

Photoshop, you can see the artifacts.

[mossy1200]

They dont want to use a chain, but as everyone knows, shaft drive bikes can't wheelie, so they us a belt instead.
you never riden a BMWR1200S then.

[The Stranger]

you never riden a BMWR1200S then.

No thank you, but when I've had more experience at making excuses I may get one though.

[Molly]

Got a shaft drive on my Guzzi. Clean and, touch wood, reliable and all but maintenance free (provided you maintain it...). Shafties can rise under acceleration too.

Belt drive will outlast a chain on a pulsing v-twin like a HD but one stray bit of gravel and you've a few hours work on your hands to change it.

Chains are an efficient way of transferring power and playing with the ratios is a piece of piss. Just need to remember to lube it (which reminds me).

[martybabe]

Shaftie wheelie. :yes:

[Big Dave]

you've a few hours work on your hands to change it.



Depends on the machine and the enclosures - On my Buell it's a half hour job - and it's done thousands of km of gravel.

Fat Boy not so huh.

[Mystic13]

I didn't even realise they made two wheel bikes with an actual drive shaft, or is someone taking the micky?

And here I am wondering if you're taking the mickey?

Yamaha, FJR1300, XJ750 and the 650 from memory.
BMW, the 850's, 1150's, 1200's and 1300's are all shaft.
Honda, CX500, VT500, Revere 600, NT700, XLV750, ST1100 (and the new 1200ccV4 - when's that coming BD?)
Moto Guzzi's, Can't think of one without shaft.
Kawasaki ZG1400
Suzuki 650G, 850G and 1100G.

and the wee Yamaha PW50 to name a few.

[elevenhundred]

Goldwinging

http://keeptherubbersidedown.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/goldwing-wheelie.jpg

[BMWST?]

And here I am wondering if you're taking the mickey?

Yamaha, FJR1300, XJ750 and the 650 from memory.
BMW, the 850's, 1150's, 1200's and 1300's are all shaft.
Honda, CX500, VT500, Revere 600, NT700, XLV750, ST1100 (and the new 1200ccV4 - when's that coming BD?)
Moto Guzzi's, Can't think of one without shaft.
Kawasaki ZG1400
Suzuki 650G, 850G and 1100G.

and the wee Yamaha PW50 to name a few.

yamaha xs 750/850 triple too
not to mention just about every BMW bike since (shhh dont mention) the war

[Edbear]

Pity they weigh a million tonnes...

Yes, they do weigh more, but as with most things, you don't notice it in the riding.

Personally I prefer a shaft due to the fact that I'm a Grandpa and can't be bothered with the maintainance of a chain drive, ie. lubrication and adjustments.

My Boulevard has just had its 20k service and apart from regular services I haven't done anything else. The tyres are just starting to show signs of wear at 21,600km, it's still on the original front brake pads and rear shoes and it's just blown its second set of driving light bulbs. The shop has replaced them with the proper twin-fillament bulbs now so maybe that will solve that wee problem. Not bad for 2 1/2 years of enjoyable ownership...

[Mully]

Clean and, touch wood, reliable and all but maintenance free (provided you maintain it...).

Maintenance free if you maintain it??

*facepalm*

I love this place sometimes.

[BMWST?]

Depends on the machine and the enclosures - On my Buell it's a half hour job - and it's done thousands of km of gravel.

Fat Boy not so huh.

Buell??? does the xb12x use a different belt than other buells?

[Big Dave]

Buell??? does the xb12x use a different belt than other buells?

Different part number - but geez it sure looks the same.

it has a much more substantial enclosure.

[Elysium]

Proberly wrong here but shafties are generaly used on larger capacity bikes as they're not really suitable on smaller bikes?

[DIN PELENDA]

They dont want to use a chain, but as everyone knows, shaft drive bikes can't wheelie, so they us a belt instead.

That is not totally truth, Hinny do it on his ST1100 and you know him.

[YellowDog]

And here I am wondering if you're taking the mickey?

Yamaha, FJR1300, XJ750 and the 650 from memory.
BMW, the 850's, 1150's, 1200's and 1300's are all shaft.
Honda, CX500, VT500, Revere 600, NT700, XLV750, ST1100 (and the new 1200ccV4 - when's that coming BD?)
Moto Guzzi's, Can't think of one without shaft.
Kawasaki ZG1400
Suzuki 650G, 850G and 1100G.

and the wee Yamaha PW50 to name a few.
Show off !

Going back a few decades, the story was that the shaft drive bikes (I am thinking BMW here) were great for being maintenane free (provided you maintain them) and reliable, however could not (in those days) perform as well as a chain driven bike. And hence they were more prevelent on the bigger engine bikes and cruisers.

I must admit that when I first started looking at the new high tech shaft driven bikes, back in the late 1970s, I didn't expect chains to be around for much longer.

W R O N G

[Mystic13]

Proberly wrong here but shafties are generaly used on larger capacity bikes as they're not really suitable on smaller bikes?

They've been on bikes around the 500cc up with the exclusion of The Yamaha 50.

There were a fair few mid sized bikes late 80's with them. I'm also sure they've been on bikes down to 350cc but can't think which bike?

You lose a bit of power, you gain, clean, quiet, low maintenance.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the new Honda 1200 V4 in the flesh.

As for wheelie's the interweb is stacked with wheelie's of heaps of shafties.

But back on topic "chain" or "belt". I have a BMW belt and the replacement cost is $990.00 approx. It's done 47k and there is another in Auckland that has done 80k.

BMW belts are overpriced.

The belt is quiet, clean and quiet. The belts are fairly big now and generally take a stone punching a hole without any problems.

The belt on the BMW 650's looked a tad on the small side. Again they seem to last a bit though.

Personally I'm amazed at how long belts last. I can't get my head around a pliable belt that doesn't strip teeth. Then again how long have we had them as cambelts and whats the life on a cambelt?

(And does anyone know what the smaller shaft bikes were between the Yamaha 50 and Honda CX500.)

I'm guessing a Guzzi 350?

[Conquiztador]

(And does anyone know what the smaller shaft bikes were between the Yamaha 50 and Honda CX500.)

I'm guessing a Guzzi 350?

Honda NV400 has a shaft.

[2much]

Shafts are heavy and rob power. Belts are great but aren't strong enuf to handle much more power than a harley pos donk puts out... hence chains are still the common choice.

[popelli]

Personally I'm amazed at how long belts last. I can't get my head around a pliable belt that doesn't strip teeth.

you obviously didn't see the "new" belt fitted to my harley, it only lasted a few months and it shreded itself

I changed over to a chain drive and a scotoiler - a far better more reliable system

[davereid]

No way, it's against the laws of physics - photos or it didn't happen.

Haha.. dunno about that... I have seen shaft drive CARS wheelie, so I don't have any problem thinkin bikes could do it.

My HD had a belt drive, it was great. Belts can easily handle 200Hp+. The trouble with the HD was, the belt was not enclosed. Everytime I went through road works, and I could hear all the little stones flickn up, I watited for my belt to pick one up, and peel off.

[Big Dave]

Proberly wrong here but shafties are generaly used on larger capacity bikes as they're not really suitable on smaller bikes?

Because the extra weight makes less difference as the bike gets bigger.

[Big Dave]

you obviously didn't see the "new" belt fitted to my harley, it only lasted a few months and it shreded itself

I changed over to a chain drive and a scotoiler - a far better more reliable system

I prefer properly designed belts.
I'd never have a chain again given a choice.

[scumdog]

you obviously didn't see the "new" belt fitted to my harley, it only lasted a few months and it shreded itself

I changed over to a chain drive and a scotoiler - a far better more reliable system

Never heard of anybody else having that problem - HOWEVER, has naybody noticed how narrow the belt is on some HDs compared with others?

CB's Sporty and my T-Sport both have belts of a reasonble width but I've noticed later soft-tails etc have a narrow one.

Any ideas?

[The Stranger]

Never heard of anybody else having that problem - HOWEVER, has naybody noticed how narrow the belt is on some HDs compared with others?

CB's Sporty and my T-Sport both have belts of a reasonble width but I've noticed later soft-tails etc have a narrow one.

Any ideas?

Weight saving?

[Big Dave]

Never heard of anybody else having that problem - HOWEVER, has naybody noticed how narrow the belt is on some HDs compared with others?

CB's Sporty and my T-Sport both have belts of a reasonble width but I've noticed later soft-tails etc have a narrow one.

Any ideas?

It's so they can align the wheels.

Before the belt tech got good enough to go narrow they actually off set the front wheel in the forks to line up the front end with the phat rear ends and gearbox.

[Taz]

I have three shaft drive bikes in the garage R1100GS, Guzzi V1000CR, Yamaha PW50 and only one chain drive.Two of those shafties wheelie real well but I've never tried to wheelie the Guzzi as that's just sacrilege. :yes:

[Edbear]

I have three shaft drive bikes in the garage R1100GS, Guzzi V1000CR, Yamaha PW50 and only one chain drive.Two of those shafties wheelie real well but I've never tried to wheelie the Guzzi as that's just sacrilege. :yes:

You've wheelied the PW50? :gob:

[Hitcher]

The first and only offer I've ever had from somebody wanting to grease my shaft was when I owned an FJR1300. The Shiver provokes a completely different range of propositions.

Shaft greasing is quite time consuming and expensive.

[StoneY]

I didn't even realise they made two wheel bikes with an actual drive shaft, or is someone taking the micky?

Maaate-
GS 850- 1980- shaft drive
Thats the oldest bike I personally know if with a shaft but maaate- OLD technology- think BMW had em in the 40's even-

And they do wheelie- my GS850 could and im not even brave!

[Taz]

You've wheelied the PW50? :gob:

Hasn't everybody at one stage or another?? :lol:

[Big Dave]

Hasn't everybody at one stage or another?? :lol:

And landed flat on my back biscuit

[Mikkel]

HOWEVER, has naybody noticed how narrow the belt is on some HDs compared with others?

I have to say nay to that one.

[Pixie]

Maaate-
GS 850- 1980- shaft drive
Thats the oldest bike I personally know if with a shaft but maaate- OLD technology- think BMW had em in the 40's even-

And they do wheelie- my GS850 could and im not even brave!
40's Hah,they had whiskers by then:

The FN Four

In 1905 the first 362 cc shaft drive in-line FN inlet-over-exhaust four cylinder motorcycle appeared, designed by Paul Kelecom. This was the world's first manufactured four cylinder motorcycle.[1] By 1907 the Four engine had grown to 412 cc, and that year's single cylinder 244 cc FN motorcycle was the first bike with a multiple ratio belt drive system, using a patented variable size engine pulley. For 1908, the US Export model began manufacture. The Four had a 493 cc engine, and in 1910 that became 498 cc.[3] This bike weighed 75 kg (165 lb) dry, and could do 40 mph (64 km/h).[1] The 1913 Fours had a two speed gearbox and clutch, at the rear of the shaft drive, and bicycle pedals were permanently replaced with footrests from then on. For 1914 the FN “Type 700” 748 cc Four was released, with the gearbox at the rear of the engine.[3]


XS 750 triple was the first yamaha shaft drive.The XS750 C came out in 1976.I had a 1977 XS 750 D $4200 new from Whites in Newmarket

[StoneY]

maintenance free (provided you maintain it...). .

Ummmmm..............:blink:

Is Molly REALLY George Bush in disguise?

[ukusa]

The missus like the shaft, doesn't mind the chains now & again, but she hates the belt :laugh:

[Molly]

Maintenance free if you maintain it??

*facepalm*

I love this place sometimes.

It was a joke mate.

Christ.... I love this place sometimes ;-)

[Jizah]

It was a joke mate.

Christ.... I love this place sometimes ;-)

Even I could see that. The rest of you should be ashamed.

[Molly]

Just checked my CP. Mully was just taking the piss... The bugger!

[Big Dave]

XS 750 triple was the first yamaha shaft drive.The XS750 C came out in 1976.I had a 1977 XS 750 D $4200 new from Whites in Newmarket


I played basketball with a bloke the owned one. He never missed a game - but they had a reputation for exploding - was it warranted?

[caseye]

Had an old old 750Jam jar shafty,a 79 Japanese commuter model, no nice lines or XS Special badges on it, but man it could fly, never had an once of trouble form that old shafty.
What it did do though, is when accelerating through a corner if you wound on a little hard the arse end would rise up on the torque of the shaft, a bit scary until you got used to it.
But really, "is someone taking the piss" no excuse here, that man owes us all a beer.

[StoneY]

It was a joke mate.

Christ.... I love this place sometimes ;-)

Hehe I knew that- was trying to slip in a GB someowhere- soz werent meant to be at ya expense-:Oops:
;)

[Molly]

Hehe I knew that- was trying to slip in a GB someowhere- soz werent meant to be at ya expense-:Oops:
;)

S'ok. You never know here. There's some right thick f'kers around (unlike me, naturally...). :rockon:

[TimeOut]

Had an old old 750Jam jar shafty,a 79 Japanese commuter model, no nice lines or XS Special badges on it, but man it could fly, never had an once of trouble form that old shafty.
What it did do though, is when accelerating through a corner if you wound on a little hard the arse end would rise up on the torque of the shaft, a bit scary until you got used to it.
But really, "is someone taking the piss" no excuse here, that man owes us all a beer.

Yea I thought the torque of the shaft while cornering was the major drawback with shaft drive.

[Big Dave]

I've owned and tested numerous shaft drive vehicles since the 70's.
2 x XS1100, GS850G - and dozens of test bikes.
Never experienced any torque steer with any of them. None. Nada. Nil.
Personally I think on the reports with the Guzzis it's the flywheel.

[Taz]

Don't notice any adverse effects on my Guzzi but then it doesn't rev very hard and it doesn't go very fast and it doesn't handle very well but by god it's a sensual ride. Every one should ride an old guzzi once in their life.

[Big Dave]

Don't notice any adverse effects on my Guzzi but then it doesn't rev very hard and it doesn't go very fast and it doesn't handle very well but by god it's a sensual ride. Every one should ride an old guzzi once in their life.

For a perspective on how nice their current bike is?

[red675]

belts are mechanically more efficient (about 1% versus 2% in mechanical losses), unfortunately unenclosed belts frequently suffer early failure due to stones getting between the belt and pulley ...

when this happens it's off to the bike shop for a very expensive belt replacement and usually a long wait

[popelli]

I prefer properly designed belts.
I'd never have a chain again given a choice.

are you saving that harley has not designed the belts properly ??

[Big Dave]

are you saving that harley has not designed the belts properly ??

Nah - meant properly designed for intended purpose.

Mine has proved well designed for a gravel road. A Springer isn't - but it's a hornbag. Horses - courses.

[Pixie]

I played basketball with a bloke the owned one. He never missed a game - but they had a reputation for exploding - was it warranted?

You're confusing the TX 750 Twin with the XS 750 triple.

The twins had head gasket problems

[Big Dave]

You're confusing the TX 750 Twin with the XS 750 triple.

The twins had head gasket problems

ah - temporary acronymic dyslexia

[Pixie]

I've owned and tested numerous shaft drive vehicles since the 70's.
2 x XS1100, GS850G - and dozens of test bikes.
Never experienced any torque steer with any of them. None. Nada. Nil.
Personally I think on the reports with the Guzzis it's the flywheel.

There is a lot of confusion about the various effects shaft drive has on a bike's dynamics.

First: the twisting to one side that BMW twins,horizontal triples and fours,Guzzis ,Honda ST 1300 etc. can potentially exhibit,is due to a fore and aft crankshaft.It is not due to the bike having a shaft drive.GS 850s XS 1100s BMW K1300 etc. have transverse cranks and do not rock to one side when the throttle is blipped.
In fact,you could design a fore and aft crank engine with a chain or belt drive and it would still twist to one side.

Second: the shaft causes the rear of the bike to rise.This is said to be caused by the pinion and therefore the swing arm that carries the shaft,rotating around the crown gear and forcing the swingarm pivot to rise.Thus causing the whole bike to rise.This is true.However a chain or belt drive exhibits these same forces but they are offset either partially or completely by an opposing force created by the offset force path along the upper run of chain or belt.

[Big Dave]

There is a lot of confusion about the various effects shaft drive has on a bike's dynamics.

First: the twisting to one side that BMW twins,horizontal triples and fours,Guzzis ,Honda ST 1300 etc. can potentially exhibit,is due to a fore and aft crankshaft.It is not due to the bike having a shaft drive.GS 850s XS 1100s BMW K1300 etc. have transverse cranks and do not rock to one side when the throttle is blipped.
In fact,you could design a fore and aft crank engine with a chain or belt drive and it would still twist to one side.

Second: the shaft causes the rear of the bike to rise.This is said to be caused by the pinion and therefore the swing arm that carries the shaft,rotating around the crown gear and forcing the swingarm pivot to rise.Thus causing the whole bike to rise.This is true.However a chain or belt drive exhibits these same forces but they are offset either partially or completely by an opposing force created by the offset force path along the upper run of chain or belt.

Blipping the throttle when stationery on the Guzzis and BMWs is part of the pleasure. Whey-hey the goeses.

I agree with what you have said. But I am still yet to notice (or fail to recall) any gyroscopic or other effect in the course of normal forward progress.

This could be attributable to my larger than average mass.

[Edbear]

The faster I go forward the more effects I get... :yes:




Must be something to do with my mass...

[Big Dave]

The faster I go forward the more effects I get... :yes:
Must be something to do with my mass...

There is a difference between gyroscopic effect and spinning out. :-P

[BMWST?]

Blipping the throttle when stationery on the Guzzis and BMWs is part of the pleasure. Whey-hey the goeses.

I agree with what you have said. But I am still yet to notice (or fail to recall) any gyroscopic or other effect in the course of normal forward progress.

This could be attributable to my larger than average mass.

the guy was referring to the rise and fall of teh shafties...My xs750 e did this more than my k100rs and current BMWR100GS

[Big Dave]

the guy was referring to the rise and fall of teh shafties...My xs750 e did this more than my k100rs and current BMWR100GS

Yeah - I got it.

[caseye]

I've owned and tested numerous shaft drive vehicles since the 70's.
2 x XS1100, GS850G - and dozens of test bikes.
Never experienced any torque steer with any of them. None. Nada. Nil.
Personally I think on the reports with the Guzzis it's the flywheel.

Dave it wasn't torque steering, ie: making the bike go left or right. it simply made the back of the bike rise!
My GS850 G also a shaft drive did not do this, somewhere between the early 70's and the early 80's they got rid of this pesky little problem.Wasn't really that bad, once you got used to it, but boy did it scare the pillions, the girls grabbed on much harder when that happened.:beer:

[Big Dave]

I can only re-iterate

'But I am still yet to notice (or fail to recall) any gyroscopic or other effect in the course of normal forward progress.'

[Pixie]

Blipping the throttle when stationery on the Guzzis and BMWs is part of the pleasure. Whey-hey the goeses.

I agree with what you have said. But I am still yet to notice (or fail to recall) any gyroscopic or other effect in the course of normal forward progress.

This could be attributable to my larger than average mass.

The sideward tilt is not a problem at all while riding,as it is only exhibited to a major degree when the engine speed changes very quickly,ie when the clutch is disengaged and the throttle is whacked open.

The rising and falling can be a problem due to it's effect on ground clearance and suspension loading.