Why we need to slow down

[bugjuice]

sobering pics sent to me from a friend. No details on anything, so only know what you see, which probably wasn't pretty after all.. So they wanted to scare us at a show with it. Works for me..

slow it down peeps, live for another day, ay?

[jrandom]

'Why we need to slow down'?

THINK, man. Those photos illustrate why we need to not run into things. That accident could easily have happened to a rider travelling within 10kph of the speed limit on the open road.

You're a propaganda victim.

How about changing the caption to 'Why we need to be aware of our surroundings'?

[flyin]

ohhh shows the danger of driving cages a!!! trapped in there with bike all wrapped around ya ready to go bang................. maybe he'll look twice before pulling out in front of a bike again a

[Marmoot]

a Castrol RC30.......beautiful bike......even in that state.....

[bugjuice]

'Why we need to slow down'?

THINK, man. Those photos illustrate why we need to not run into things. That accident could easily have happened to a rider travelling within 10kph of the speed limit on the open road.

You're a propaganda victim.

How about changing the caption to 'Why we need to be aware of our surroundings'?
True, we need to not run into things, but we need to not be doing 70 to 100kph down 50kph streets which I've seen people going.. Then someone pulls out of their drive, and voila.
Out on open roads, there's often more open space around, so the limits and visiability are higher, where as built up places, the limits are lower, but we still don't go any slower.

[jrandom]

True, we need to not run into things, but we need to not be doing 70 to 100kph down 50kph streets which I've seen people going.. Then someone pulls out of their drive, and voila.
Out on open roads, there's often more open space around, so the limits and visiability are higher, where as built up places, the limits are lower, but we still don't go any slower.

True, of course. But disingenuous. As you said, we have no idea of the story behind this particular accident. We don't even know if it was the result of a careful setup with remote-control throttles in a closed test area to create an interesting bit of postmodern crash-sculpture.

The 'slow down' message is overly simplistic, and gives a false sense of security to people travelling at the speed limit.

Proper situational awareness implies not going faster than the conditions allow.

This subject has been thrashed beyond death here, so I'm not going to say anything further, other than reiterating that that caption, on those photos, annoys me...

[bugjuice]

True, of course. But disingenuous. As you said, we have no idea of the story behind this particular accident. We don't even know if it was the result of a careful setup with remote-control throttles in a closed test area to create an interesting bit of postmodern crash-sculpture.

The 'slow down' message is overly simplistic, and gives a false sense of security to people travelling at the speed limit.

Proper situational awareness implies not going faster than the conditions allow.

This subject has been thrashed beyond death here, so I'm not going to say anything further, other than reiterating that that caption, on those photos, annoys me...
fairy fluff..
I had thought about a set-up myself actually, referring to the 'controlled' environment. Either way, still isn't pretty. I'd bet money the bike was doing over 100kph on impact, just by how far in it got.
Also agree on the point about going as fast as the status quo.

[Holy Roller]

Saw something similar back in the 80's.
A honda city or similar with a bike parked halfway in it, just behind the drivers door, being carted on a towtruck heading into AK city over the harbour bridge.

Now that was sobering for a young fella on a brand new bike.

[Ixion]

That is either faked, or there is more to it than appears. Note the evidence of heavy impact on *both* sides front (left and right door areas impacted, and windscreen crushed from *both* sides.) And the rear hatch has been stove in , from the rear.

The bike didn't do all that.

[Motu]

I've been seeing all these deaths and accidents lately - to me it smacks of powerful bike...excesive speed...injury or death.I'm sure someone in an ivory tower might see it too,a blip on his graph and then a knee jerk reaction from higher up.

Can't happen here....yeah right.

In the early 70s we had a blip on the graph and then we all had to wear helmets and learner restictions came in.I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot and will ultimatly pay the price....

[flyin]

yeah, was wondering about those scrapes on the front of the bonett too!

[bugjuice]

That is either faked, or there is more to it than appears. Note the evidence of heavy impact on *both* sides front (left and right door areas impacted, and windscreen crushed from *both* sides.) And the rear hatch has been stove in , from the rear.

The bike didn't do all that.
don't think the car would have stood still while all that was going on, it would have most likely spun out and probably bounced off a few things in the process. Plus if it was flung into the path of other traffic..
not defending the crash, or denying your statement, but just saying even tho the initial crash of the bike might not have done all that much, the force and everything else around might have..

[bugjuice]

yeah, was wondering about those scrapes on the front of the bonett too!
that does look a tad suss..
just noticed the front driver's side pillar looks cut too. If it was cut after the accident, it'd probably be near to where it was before the cut, where as that looks to have been cut prior..

[bear]

At the end of the day, a reminder about remaining aware of your surroundings is a positive thing I say.

[Jantar]

I must admit that 100% of all accidents are caused by speed. I am unaware of ever hearing about two stationary vehicles hitting each other.

[Fart]

Hey people, lets becareful out there. Dont do silly things and we reduce our chances of a fatal accident. Peace. :ride:

[outlawtorn]

methinks the car has been hit with such force that it caused it to roll over, not impossible, but if that was the case then the bike had to be doing one hell of a speed and from the looks of those pics both driver and rider would have ended up dead I'm sure.

Pretty scary stuff.

[jrandom]

Dont do silly things and we reduce our chances of a fatal accident. Peace. :ride:

Stop being so sincere and concerned. It makes my brain hurt.

[Lou Girardin]

I must admit that 100% of all accidents are caused by speed. I am unaware of ever hearing about two stationary vehicles hitting each other.

MOTION is a FACTOR in all accidents. Speed is a causative factor in between 5 and 7% of accidents, according to UK and Queensland studies.
Spare us the LTNZ falsities.

[Ixion]

Anyone else notice that the car is on a carpeted surface in something like a shopping mall.

If it was a genuine crash it would have been a fatality (rider at least). And no way would forensic have either left it like that , or have allowed it, uninvestigated, to be put on display.

It's a jackup for publicity.

But, sobering none the less.

[vifferman]

yawn.


Where's the yawn emoticon when you need it? :spudwhat:

Yeah, motorcycling's very dangerous, especially when you going faster than a standstill. No - change that; my first motorcycle-related injury was caused when not moving (dismounted on the downhill side). Oh yeah - and an early injury was caused at walking pace, when a piece of barbed wire wrapped around my ankle. If I was only in a car, neither of those injuries would have occurred. In fact, if I was in a car, NONE of my bike crashes would have happened. :doh:

Ummm - motorcycling's too dangerous for humans and little animals. Let's all be sensible and sell our bikes and live safe, boring little lives. Murdercycles should be banned.

[Ixion]

yawn.

Yeah, motorcycling's very dangerous, especially when you going faster than a standstill.

What ? OMG. Are you telling me motorcycling is **dangerous**. Why didn't someone tell me this years ago.

Oh my goodness, when I think of the 40 years that I've unwittingly been exposing myself to danger. My flesh creeps and my blood runs cold.

How long will this dreadful situation be allowed to continue. To think that people are exposing themselves to danger. These dangerous devices must be *banned* immediately. Why doesn't the gubbermint do something about it. Confiscate their bikes, that's the answer. Long haired lazy layabouts anyway. Afraid of a good days work. What they need is a short sharp shock. A spell in the Army, that'd sort them out. Now in my day ......Nurse, nurse, I think I've overheated again helllpppp :cry: :doctor: :shutup: ....

Of course, i shall **immdediately** give up this *dangerous* pastime. Let me just read what you said again though

yawn.

Yeah, motorcycling's very dangerous, especially when you going faster than a standstill.

Wait. Wait. Wait. I may be OK. I ride like such a nana that I might as well be at a standstill. So maybe that's OK :ride:

But all the rest of you must STOP MOTORCYCLE RIDING IMMEDIATELY

[MSTRS]

I must admit that 100% of all accidents are caused by speed. I am unaware of ever hearing about two stationary vehicles hitting each other.
Hmmmm,almost right.....nasty little agitator (PT)

[flyin]

:niceone: I have my big warning sheet "MOTORSPORT IS DANGEROUS" on my wall, think it was from the rally of NZ (really dodge as you can walk onto the track!! you have to use *uncommon sense to not get hit)

reminds me of the fun I can go and have when i get my lazy arse outta bed and do sum work to pay for rubber........

[outlawtorn]

without wanting to start yet another thread (argument) about speed and death and blah blah, you can defintely see the members on both sides of the coin here, mention speed and dangerous driving and you'll be shot down in flames by one half as an LTSA preacher where as the other half simply state that we should all be a little bit more careful, it's quite cool to start to figure out the personalities that go with the names.

[Lou Girardin]

without wanting to start yet another thread (argument) about speed and death and blah blah, you can defintely see the members on both sides of the coin here, mention speed and dangerous driving and you'll be shot down in flames by one half as an LTSA preacher where as the other half simply state that we should all be a little bit more careful, it's quite cool to start to figure out the personalities that go with the names.

It'll take more than a few posts to do that.
I only show my nice side on here.

[GNR]

speed is one factor of crashes yes, but you can speed saftly, like excessive speed is bad around corners n shit

but, now that the police have slowed most people down, people are getting bored sittin at 100km/h, and get drowsy, lazy at the wheel, if you speed, you are normally lookin around and both hands on the wheel/bars etc

[Fart]

Stop being so sincere and concerned. It makes my brain hurt.
:killingme

That is why the only crash I ever had was on the racetrack.


..... touch wood.



speed is one factor of crashes yes, but you can speed saftly, like excessive speed is bad around corners n shit

but, now that the police have slowed most people down, people are getting bored sittin at 100km/h, and get drowsy, lazy at the wheel, if you speed, you are normally lookin around and both hands on the wheel/bars etc

You are exactly right. There are drivers who are dangerous at low speed. I noticed that if I stay at a constant speed I fall asleep or get bored which will result in not paying attention to my driving. One can ride/drive fast without being dangerous. There is a difference.

[Motu]

without wanting to start yet another thread (argument) about speed and death and blah blah, you can defintely see the members on both sides of the coin here, mention speed and dangerous driving and you'll be shot down in flames by one half as an LTSA preacher where as the other half simply state that we should all be a little bit more careful, it's quite cool to start to figure out the personalities that go with the names.

You'll only see me bring my soapbox out when people start blaming all and sundry for their ''accident'',otherwise I don't care how people ride.But what worries me is people in suits are watching from a distance,clip boards in hand...we are not a quiet safe little group that blends into the background....someone is watching,watching,counting....thinking up new plans to justify their existance in the political world.

[NC]

I think that is a show thing....

Otherwise they wouldn't show it...

[Two Smoker]

Looking at that photo, i would say the bike was doing around 100-130kmh... you would be surprised at the damage a bike can do even at 60kmh...

[John]

Its interesting to say the least, But I will ride at what speed I know I can controll myself and the bike, and depending on road conditions - I have not being going fast at all lately due to bad brakes at the moment for example.

Just havto assess dangers, you started biking you know the risks - and personally If i'm going to die, I hope to god I will die on a bike (preferablly not killing anyone in the proccess even if they hit me, then they can suffer the thought of killing someone)

Wast of a bike, It wouldnt have really happened as that would mean getting rid of the blood, they would have just done it with those testingg machines.

[Coyote]

Why couldn't have they used a harley instead? :weep:

[jrandom]

Why couldn't have they used a harley instead? :weep:

It wouldn't have gone fast enough...

[oldfart]

As they say, shit happens. My experience is when a car decides to pull out etc you either do the right thing or you don't. Course you could spend your life walking that might be safest. Probably get taken out by poor bastard on the RC30 as he got fired off the bike. Sides, they did slow down.

[outlawtorn]

Why couldn't have they used a harley instead? :weep:
that's just plain nasty...

[justsomeguy]

that's just plain nasty...

You're right. Imagine what the car would feel like with a Barley inside it. The inhumotority..........

[Skunk]

Pics could be for real. My wife knows a guy that hit a car at about 100kmh.
Car did a U-turn on the open road. Bike went in the back passenger door and rolled the car.
Rider broke both arms. Driver was in a serious condition (touch and go for a while).

[Two Smoker]

Maybe.. just maybe a mate borrowed the bike and about an hour later whilst riding near the airport (why?) the chain broke and he couldnt find any other way of getting it to his mates farm other than opening the door of the golf and shoving it in the front like that.

Then whilst driving to said farm he realised that in that position he couldnt see over the steering wheel very well and rolled down a hill..

Dunno .. just a thought

HOW DID YOU FIND OUT THE REAL STORY!!!???

[spudchucka]

That is either faked, or there is more to it than appears. Note the evidence of heavy impact on *both* sides front (left and right door areas impacted, and windscreen crushed from *both* sides.) And the rear hatch has been stove in , from the rear.

The bike didn't do all that.
You haven't been to many serious accidents have you?

[spudchucka]

Anyone else notice that the car is on a carpeted surface in something like a shopping mall.

If it was a genuine crash it would have been a fatality (rider at least). And no way would forensic have either left it like that , or have allowed it, uninvestigated, to be put on display.

It's a jackup for publicity.

But, sobering none the less.
Jackup or a reconstruction of an actual crash using the actual vehicles involved in the crash? Even if it is a construction rather than a reconstruction, do you think that this is not representative of what actually happens?

[Ixion]

You haven't been to many serious accidents have you?

Nope. In fact, I don't think I've ever been up close to anything more than a fender bender. Never been involved in one myself, and I try to keep far far away from anyone who looks like they might be likely to cause one. Or cause someone to cause one. Works for me.

[Coldkiwi]

Following pics were sent to me by a mate. Blurb below explains it, but its worth thinking about when out on the road, especially for people like me with sports bikes and an itchy right wrist! Don't forget how to relax guys.

RC45 Honda

This is a "cleaned up" version. The police cleaned it out and put it back together to show what CAN happen.
The Honda rider was traveling at "very high speed" and did not see the golf.

Swedish police estimate a speed of ~250 KM/h when he hit the car. The car had two passengers and the bike rider was found INSIDE the car.
This is a graphic warning of what CAN happen if you turn it on and don't have the sense to turn it off. This demonstration was placed at the Stockholm Motorcycle fair by the Swedish Police and Road safety department.

The Volkswagen flipped over from the force of impact and landed 10 feet from where the collision took place. All three involved (two in car and rider) where killed instantly.
The MC-rider had a new license.

[justsomeguy]

What a waste of a bike.....................:no:

[onearmedbandit]

What a waste of a bike.....................:no:


Huh? Its just a fucking bike, it can be replaced. 3 people lost their lives, that can never be replaced. Brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers and children were affected by this, and all you can say is 'What a waste of a bike....'. While no-one here (I assume) knew anyone involved, some tact would be good.

[Motoracer]

Cheers for the reminder. The road is the road that is used by everybody else as well, afterall. This was posted before with out any explanation, so people thought it was hoax.

[bugjuice]

i already posted this one.. but I only had the pics emailed to me, didn't have any story. I think we came to the conclusion it was possibley a setup

[TonyB]

Incredible. I pity the people that had to clean that one up, (or any accident for that matter) that would have been a nightmarish scene.

250 kmh = 69.44 metres per second. Not much time to react...

[Lou Girardin]

250 or 150 or 100. you're still dead.

[jazbug5]

Interesting. So, if the bike had been doing 100, you think that both folk in the car would have died as well, Lou?

[Lou Girardin]

Interesting. So, if the bike had been doing 100, you think that both folk in the car would have died as well, Lou?

Yeah, there was a bike v car just like that in Three Kings back in the '80s. The bike was doing around 100 - 110 k's. Killed both people in the car. Rider survived, somersaulted over the car.

[onearmedbandit]

Interesting. So, if the bike had been doing 100, you think that both folk in the car would have died as well, Lou?

In agreement with you. But it all depends on a number of factors, angle of impact, type of car, point of impact, etc etc.

[Velox]

Hmmm - as a person with a constantly semi-cynical mind-set, I wonder if they "tweaked" the position of the bike at all (as in pushed it further in) after the crash, because surely they had to get it out to get the remains of the car driver out?!
Still - that's pretty full-on! Not nice.

[250learna]

i feel sorry for the people in the car, the guy on the bike should not have been going anywhere near that speed if there was even a remote chance of something pulling out in front, or an intersection etc
waste of 3 lives and a chunk taken out of many more.

[Sniper]

Shit, thats not good, hopefully some of us can learn from it

[James Deuce]

Interesting. So, if the bike had been doing 100, you think that both folk in the car would have died as well, Lou?

100km/hr on an object weighing 300kg (rider and bike combined) carries a lot more kinetic energy that you you would imagine.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

250 or 150 or 100. you're still dead.
It is not just YOU that counts here. Others are dead as well. Sorry to close to the heart to not remind people of this fact.

[pritch]

Sadly that instance was not unique...

[XTC]

I know my bike wouldn't fit in the falcon.... Not gonna do 250 just to find out though.

[Coldkiwi]

thanks Pritch, I was thinking of posting that photo too.
I'm a little surprised at some of the 'its a setup' doubting Thomas' here. What do you guys think it would look like for real if thats a set up??
Its not like it could never happen when all you need is an open road, an overzealous biker trying to catch up to his mate and a sleepy driver pulling out of driveway lined with trees...

Didn't know if had been posted before Bugjuice, but glad I've added something to the discussion.

[spudchucka]

250 or 150 or 100. you're still dead.
Always looking for an opportunity to justify speeding! :no:

[Lou Girardin]

Always looking for an opportunity to justify speeding! :no:

No, always looking for an opportunity to present the truth. Something lacking in the official arguments.

[spudchucka]

No, always looking for an opportunity to present the truth. Something lacking in the official arguments.
Your logic says that you will die at 100kph so go ahead and do 250kph if you feel like it because you are fucked anyway. Dead is dead regardless of the speed used to effect that outcome but the logic of your suggestion is just plain stupid.

[Stevo]

Your logic says that you will die at 100kph so go ahead and do 250kph if you feel like it because you are fucked anyway. Dead is dead regardless of the speed used to effect that outcome but the logic of your suggestion is just plain stupid.
Sounds like someone got outta bed on the wrong side this morning? :whistle:

[Virago]

Your logic says that you will die at 100kph so go ahead and do 250kph if you feel like it because you are fucked anyway. Dead is dead regardless of the speed used to effect that outcome but the logic of your suggestion is just plain stupid.
Yes at 100k you are dead, but at 250k the people in the cage are also dead. Or don't they matter? :no:

[Stevo]

At 150 he coulda more easily avoided an accident, I get what you are tryin to point out Spud.
Ya just seemed particularly twitchy this morning :msn-wink:

[spudchucka]

Sounds like someone got outta bed on the wrong side this morning? :whistle:
Lou says he is presenting the truth, maybe he is from his own worldview. My interpretation of the truth is slightly different to his. It comes down to an individuals own assessment of the facts as to which truth applies to their worldview. This process is subjective to the individuals own core values and beliefs, Lou's are obviously very different to my own.

[spudchucka]

Yes at 100k you are dead, but at 250k the people in the cage are also dead. Or don't they matter? :no:
Direct your question to Lou, its his logic that I'm challenging.

[spudchucka]

Ya just seemed particularly twitchy this morning :msn-wink:I'm not at all twitchy this morning, thanks for asking though.

The internet and email aren't a reliable form of communication as the intended context and tone of the writer often isn't easily interpreted by the reader, which leaves the reader to draw their own conclusions regarding the writers tone.

[Funkyfly]

Direct your question to Lou, its his logic that I'm challenging.

I bet people have speed down that road before and never killed anyone, the problem here is someone on a new license being stupid.

You can kill people doing 50kph easily if your being stupid.

[Motu]

We put a Husky 250 into the back of a Mini - we had to pull the back seat out and the wheels off....but no one lost their life....

[jazbug5]

I bet people have speed down that road before and never killed anyone, the problem here is someone on a new license being stupid.

You can kill people doing 50kph easily if your being stupid.

Where does it say that this was a new rider?

[Funkyfly]

Where does it say that this was a new rider?

"The MC-rider had a new license." Now that could mean a number of things, but general consensus would be he had just got his bike license.

[Lou Girardin]

Yes at 100k you are dead, but at 250k the people in the cage are also dead. Or don't they matter? :no:

Take the bastids with you if they caused the accident :msn-wink:
Besides, at 250 k's you're a harder target to hit or catch.. :devil2:

[Lou Girardin]

Lou says he is presenting the truth, maybe he is from his own worldview. My interpretation of the truth is slightly different to his. It comes down to an individuals own assessment of the facts as to which truth applies to their worldview. This process is subjective to the individuals own core values and beliefs, Lou's are obviously very different to my own.

Interesting, so the truth is subjective,it accords to your world view.
As in, people used to believe the world was the centre of the universe and the planets revolved around it. They even burnt those that disagreed.

[Funkyfly]

Interesting, so the truth is subjective,it accords to your world view.
As in, people used to believe the world was the centre of the universe and the planets revolved around it. They even burnt those that disagreed.

Heh, yea I had to laugh when I read that too. :killingme

A Paedophile Truthfully believes (according to his "worldview") theres nothing wrong with a boy man relationship. :mad:

You cant rely on each persons individual values and beliefs.

[Virago]

Take the bastids with you if they caused the accident :msn-wink:
Besides, at 250 k's you're a harder target to hit or catch.. :devil2:
If a car pulls out in front of you when you're doing 250k, can you honestly say they are at fault????? :no:

[Lou Girardin]

If a car pulls out in front of you when you're doing 250k, can you honestly say they are at fault????? :no:

It was said tongue in cheek. But if you fail to give way, the other vehicles speed will not absolve you from fault. At best, it may be used in mitigation.

[jazbug5]

Since you would then be wearing the other vehicle, is this not a moot point?

[roo]

I'm not at all twitchy this morning


The pills are working then? ...excellent.

[Stevo]

Take the bastids with you if they caused the accident :msn-wink:
Besides, at 250 k's you're a harder target to hit or catch.. :devil2:
OK!
I said Spud was twitchy as he bit to a usual Lou trolls,.................... twice.

But the above post ranks amongst the the "Elite of Stupidity." I can't give a flying toss whether you said this in jest or not!! This is one of THE dumbest posts yet I have read on KB. Pretty much alongside Winja's post the other day "Hope you crash" response to another KBer!

Now I am twitchy :killingme

[Beemer]

A mate of mine was seriously injured when a horse jumped through the windscreen of her van - it was loose on the road and ran straight in front of her. She would have been doing 100kph but it's not like the horse was doing anywhere near that speed and you should have seen the mess. She was just as badly injured as she would have been in a head-on with another vehicle and the horse looked much like this bike.

I photographed an accident last week, god knows how the two drivers survived - it was a head-on at 100kph between a light truck and a van, but amazingly they hit passenger-side to passenger-side! The cops said one had crossed the centre line but luckily neither had passengers or they would have been dead. The van looked about the length of a mini and the whole cab of the truck was munted.

I think the message we can all take from this is be prepared - I hate the ads about "he's prepared to kill him and he's prepared to kill her" - but try to think of the consequences of going at this speed on a public road. No way could you blame the car driver because even if they had seen the bike in the distance, they would have assumed it was doing somewhere around the speed limit for that country - and judged it was safe to proceed. Sad waste of life for all involved.

[Virago]

A mate of mine was seriously injured when a horse jumped through the windscreen of her van - it was loose on the road and ran straight in front of her. She would have been doing 100kph but it's not like the horse was doing anywhere near that speed and you should have seen the mess. She was just as badly injured as she would have been in a head-on with another vehicle and the horse looked much like this bike.

I photographed an accident last week, god knows how the two drivers survived - it was a head-on at 100kph between a light truck and a van, but amazingly they hit passenger-side to passenger-side! The cops said one had crossed the centre line but luckily neither had passengers or they would have been dead. The van looked about the length of a mini and the whole cab of the truck was munted.

I think the message we can all take from this is be prepared - I hate the ads about "he's prepared to kill him and he's prepared to kill her" - but try to think of the consequences of going at this speed on a public road. No way could you blame the car driver because even if they had seen the bike in the distance, they would have assumed it was doing somewhere around the speed limit for that country - and judged it was safe to proceed. Sad waste of life for all involved.
My sentiments exactly. There will be very few of us who can honestly say that we don't occasionally speed or take risks when riding, but this "chip on the shoulder" mentality that any accident is someone else's fault is pointless.

If you hit ANYTHING when doing grossly excessive speed on a public road, then you are at fault. Simple as that. If you choose to take the risk, then you also choose to kill. The comment about "taking the b*stards with you", tongue in cheek or otherwise, would have to rank amongst the dumbest ever posts on this site.

[Lou Girardin]

OK!
I said Spud was twitchy as he bit to a usual Lou trolls,.................... twice.

But the above post ranks amongst the the "Elite of Stupidity." I can't give a flying toss whether you said this in jest or not!! This is one of THE dumbest posts yet I have read on KB. Pretty much alongside Winja's post the other day "Hope you crash" response to another KBer!

Now I am twitchy :killingme

My Mum always said I'd amount to something.
Hmmm. Elite, eh. I'm not up to WINJA's standard though, I have to work at it.

[Motoracer]

I think the message we can all take from this is be prepared - I hate the ads about "he's prepared to kill him and he's prepared to kill her" -

I am not too fond of the other one either. The one that goes like "There is a time bomb at the intersection.... Tick-tok-tick-tok-tick-tok.....Vrrrrommm....BANG!....It's you!" So they are saying the crash is inevitable and it's only a matter of time. They are saying the drivers or riders or who ever are crap anyway and there's nothing we can do about it. They might as well just tell us all "You are all fuck wits and you'r gonna kill yourselves" instead of giving us the message like "hey, this is what you are doing wrong and this is what you really should be doing to prevent it".

Maybe it's just me...

[Coldkiwi]

Maybe it's just me...

nope... you've got it in one bro!

[Virago]

I am not too fond of the other one either. The one that goes like "There is a time bomb at the intersection.... Tick-tok-tick-tok-tick-tok.....Vrrrrommm....BANG!....It's you!" So they are saying the crash is inevitable and it's only a matter of time. They are saying the drivers or riders or who ever are crap anyway and there's nothing we can do about it. They might as well just tell us all "You are all fuck wits and you'r gonna kill yourselves" instead of giving us the message like "hey, this is what you are doing wrong and this is what you really should be doing to prevent it".

Maybe it's just me...
Actually that one made me think about my own actions at intersections. We all get impatient at intersections, and it is the impatience that can cause accidents. The advert is irritating with the constant repetition though.

[outlawtorn]

Hey guys, just found this pick on the net and I found an explanation with it, don't know how official it is but I thought I'd share it will y'all:


How bad is this? maybe our cops need to use these photo's as warnings! One rooted RC45 Honda. This is a "cleaned up" version. The police cleaned it out and put it back together to show what CAN happen. The Honda rider was traveling at "very high speed" and did not see the golf. Swedish police estimate a speed of ~250 KM/h when he hit the car. The car had two passengers and the bike rider was found INSIDE the car. The Volkswagen flipped over from the force of impact and landed 10 feet from where the collision took place. All three involved (two in car and rider) where killed instantly. The MC-rider had a new license.

[TwoSeven]

Ever wondered why when driving around - people always seem to pull out in front of you.

Well, 55km/hr is the limit at which people are no longer able to judge speed accurately. Above this their timings are messed up, so they cant figure out how long an approaching vehicle will take to travel a set distance.

Its a combined speed, not that of just one vehicle (unless one of them is stopped at an intersection).

If you dont believe me, try riding your bike 5km either side of that limit and see if you can notice the difference in people that try and go for the gap in front and people that wait for you to pass.

[Lou Girardin]

Ever wondered why when driving around - people always seem to pull out in front of you.

Well, 55km/hr is the limit at which people are no longer able to judge speed accurately. Above this their timings are messed up, so they cant figure out how long an approaching vehicle will take to travel a set distance.

Its a combined speed, not that of just one vehicle (unless one of them is stopped at an intersection).

If you dont believe me, try riding your bike 5km either side of that limit and see if you can notice the difference in people that try and go for the gap in front and people that wait for you to pass.

So why doesn't everybody pull out in front of cars in 100 km/h zones?

[gav]

Exactly......Jeez 27, dunno where you pull these random "facts" from sometimes....must be uncomfortable sitting? :bs:

[Stealth]

Body dent in roof. Force of impact would have easily rolled car crushing deformed roof. Pillar cut it get meat out. Rear end damage, possibly shunted into path of bike. Why would you leave an Ohlins shock in a Prop ??

[justsomeguy]

So why doesn't everybody pull out in front of cars in 100 km/h zones?

Well cos they know that the cars are doing 100+................well that's why I'm cautious in that situation.....

As for people losing judgement...... let 27 explain it....... I don't know what he's talking about...

[pritch]

That is either faked, or there is more to it than appears.


Two Wheels 05/05 carries three of these pics.

"Swedish Police showed the results of a horror smash just outside Stockholm last year, at the Stockholm Motorcycle Fair as a warning."

"Rider was travelling at an estimated 250kph when he hit the car"
(Doesn't say who was estimating the speed but does say who wasn't...)

"Both occupants of the car and the rider were killed."

"The rider was newly licenced."

So the "scene" has been recreated and it does beg the question whether the Police could resist the temptation to guild the lilly...

[pyrocam]

> The Honda rider was traveling at such a "very high speed", his reaction
> time was not sufficient enough to avoid this accident. Swedish Police
> estimate a speed of ~250 KM/h (155mph) before the bike hit the slow
> moving car side-on at an intersection. At that speed, they predicted
> that the rider's reaction time (once the vehicle came into view) wasn't
> sufficient enough for him to even apply the brakes. The car had two
> passengers and the bike rider was found INSIDE the car with them. The
> Volkswagen actually flipped over from the force of impact and landed 10
> feet from where the collision took place.
>
> All three involved (two in car and rider) were killed instantly. This
> graphic demonstration was placed at the Stockholm Motorcycle Fair by > the
> Swedish Police and Road Safety Department. The sign above the display
> also noted that the rider had only recently obtained his license.
>
> At 250 KM (155 mph) the operator is traveling at 227 feet per second.
> With normal reaction time to SEE-DECIDE-REACT of 1.6 seconds the above
> operator would have traveled over 363 feet while making a decision on
> what actions to take. In this incident the Swedish police indicate that
> no actions were taken.

[Coyote]

Not bloody again!!! How many times will we see those pics posted on here?!

Pyro, pyro, pyro :no: (pt)

[nudemetalz]

Was an RC-30 by the looks.....nasty !!!!

[phoenixgtr]

Holy crap :gob:

[Coyote]

Get it in an email?

[pyrocam]

Not bloody again!!! How many times will we see those pics posted on here?!

Pyro, pyro, pyro :no: (pt)

my bad. havent seen em.
merge pls


Get it in an email?

> course
> the angle brackets
> kinda give it away

[Coyote]

my bad. havent seen em.
merge pls
'Tis all good

[Marmoot]

In this incident the Swedish police indicate that
> no actions were taken.

including driver not looking to the side when at an intersection?

although....good luck seeing a bike approaching at 250kph :blink:

[gamgee]

> The Honda rider was traveling at such a "very high speed", his reaction
> time was not sufficient enough to avoid this accident.
so who's trying to scare you out of riding this time?

[pyrocam]

so who's trying to scare you out of riding this time?
my primary supplier. I guess he wants to keep the business

[Damon]

I'm just finding the joys of warp speed travel, might keep it to long roads with no intersections or driveways

[Zapf]

100km/hr on an object weighing 300kg (rider and bike combined) carries a lot more kinetic energy that you you would imagine.

and when all that momentum has a small point as the frontal area....

[hazard02]

100km/hr on an object weighing 300kg (rider and bike combined) carries a lot more kinetic energy that you you would imagine.

kinetic energy = half x mass x velocity squared
= 0.5 x 300 x (27.8 x 27.8)
= 116 KJ
or roughly the same force as 1000kg dropped on you from 11m above...
Seems kinda large, so anyone who's a little better at physics is welcome to prove me right/wong.

[James Deuce]

That's the one hazard02, but remember that velocity is relative when discussing two vehicles. If the vehicle is travelling along any vector that is toward you the energy value involved in the collision goes up.

[martin]

See the Motorcycle?








A picture is worth a thousand words.

The Honda rider was traveling at such a "very high speed", his reaction time was not sufficient enough to avoid this accident. Swedish Police estimate a speed of ~250 KM/h (155mph) before the bike hit the slow moving car side-on at an intersection. At that speed, they predicted that the rider's reaction time (once the vehicle came into view) wasn't sufficient enough for him to even apply the brakes. The car had two passengers and the bike rider was found INSIDE the car with them. The Volkswagen actually flipped over from the force of impact and landed 10 feet from where the collision took place.


All three involved (two in car and rider) were killed instantly. This graphic demonstration was placed at the Stockholm Motorcycle Fair by the Swedish Police and Road Safety Department. The sign above the display also noted that the rider had only recently obtained his license.

At 250 KM (155 mph) the operator is traveling at 227 feet per second. With normal reaction time to SEE-DECIDE-REACT of 1.6 seconds the above operator would have traveled over 363 feet (21 yards more than the length of a football field) while making a decision on what actions to take. In this incident the Swedish police indicate that no actions were taken.








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[imdying]

Nope don't see it, but it has been posted so many times before I don't think ayone will care ;)

[onearmedbandit]

Hard one to search for I suppose (using the site search engine) but yeah it is a major repost.

[imdying]

*hides and runs from the obligatory repost pictures*

[froggyfrenchman]

cant see any pics...

[limbimtimwim]

cant see any pics...Consider yourself lucky.

The RC45 has a nasty scratch. Not the sort of thing you want to do to an RC45. Those fairings are expensive.

It's pretty tough to look at. I am in tears.

There are only like.. 1100.. of those things..

[imdying]

No suprise at $50000 each. Doesn't the guy at Ashburton have two in the shop? And what happened to that one that was stolen and painted black a few years back? I know they recovered it, wasn't it recovered with that painting that was also flogged? (yeah, vague I know)

[Motu]

I can't see the picture - I've seen it so many times I think my brain no longer registers it....

[martin]

sorry guys i must try harder next time

[Cary]

Don't know if this has done the rounds already so I take no blame!

But OUCH!

A picture is worth a thousand words.

The Honda rider was traveling at such a "very high speed", his reaction time was not sufficient enough to avoid this accident. Swedish Police estimate a speed of ~250 KM/h (155mph) before the bike hit the slow moving car side-on at an intersection. At that speed, they predicted that the rider's reaction time (once the vehicle came into view) wasn't sufficient enough for him to even apply the brakes. The car had two passengers and the bike rider was found INSIDE the car with them. The Volkswagen actually flipped over from the force of impact and landed 10 feet from where the collision took place.

All three involved (two in car and rider) were killed instantly. This graphic demonstration was placed at the Stockholm Motorcycle Fair by the Swedish Police and Road Safety Department. The sign above the display also noted that the rider had only recently obtained his license.

At 250 KM (155 mph) the operator is traveling at 227 feet per second. With normal reaction time to SEE-DECIDE-REACT of 1.6 seconds the above operator would have traveled over 363 feet (21 yards more than the length of a football field) while making a decision on what actions to take. In this incident the Swedish police indicate that no actions were taken.

[SwanTiger]

3rd time I've seen someone post this.

[Patrick]

I bet he thought, "I can go as fast as I like, nothing will ever happen to me..."

Just like some on here...:nya:

[Cary]

3rd time I've seen someone post this.

Lucky you, seen it all know it all HUH!!

[T.W.R]

Yep been up before a few times. still a nasty one to see:sick: , and an unfortunate demise of an RC45.

[SwanTiger]

Lucky you, seen it all know it all HUH!!

YEP :nya:

Nah, that particular set of images and caption(s) to follow is widely spread around the internet. Hard to miss on biking sites.

[babyB]

bloody hell

[GR81]

who throws a shoe.... honestly? :wait:

[onearmedbandit]

Thread locked as of now.

[SpankMe]

Don't know if this has done the rounds already so I take no blame!


Full blame and red rep given for not evening bothering to do a search first (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/index.php?page=little_billy).

[MazTLR]

Not sure if this has been upped before.

The Honda rider was traveling at such a "very high speed", his
reaction time was not sufficient enough to avoid this accident.
Swedish Police estimate a speed of ~250 KM/h (155 mph) before the
bike hit the slow moving car side-on at an intersection. At that
speed, they predicted that the rider's reaction time (once the
vehicle came into view) wasn't sufficient enough for him to even
apply the brakes. The car had two passengers and the bike rider was
found INSIDE the car with them. The Volkswagen actually flipped over
from the force of impact and landed 10 feet from where the collision
took place.

All three involved (two in car and rider) were killed instantly.
This graphic demonstration was placed at the Stockholm Motorcycle
Fair by the Swedish Police and Road Safety Department. The sign
above the display also noted that the rider had only recently
obtained his license.

At 250 KM (155 mph) the operator is traveling at 227 feet per
second.
With normal reaction time to SEE-DECIDE-REACT of 1.6 seconds the
above operator would have traveled over 363 feet while making a
decision on what actions to take. In this incident the Swedish
police indicate that no actions were taken.

[boomer]

Repost
..........

[Virago]

Sniper..........!

[Sam I Am]

ist still mental


Repost
..........

[Donor]

*ka-click*

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=595897&postcount=1

Blammo...

...sigh, so sad wasting ammo on the wounded...

[Wasp]

failed to react my foot! he lowsided into it!

[ZeroIndex]

Damn this is old news... And what exactly is a VFR400 doing 250km/h? What parts did he add to his bike... I want them...

[sAsLEX]

Damn this is old news... And what exactly is a VFR400 doing 250km/h? What parts did he add to his bike... I want them...

RC45 or RC30 the 750 anyways not NC30 mate

[ZeroIndex]

RC45 or RC30 the 750 anyways not NC30 mate

Ahhh, thankyou for that... that answers my question perfectly... green bling sent

[Sniper]

Not sure if this has been upped before.

Theres a button along the top (third from the right) that is called the search button (For a description on what search means, click here (http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=define%3Asearch&meta=)) Its a really effective tool, you should try it sometime, I hear all the cool folk do.

[ZeroIndex]

Not sure if this has been upped before.



Theres a button along the top (third from the right) that is called the search button (For a description on what search means, click here (http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=define%3Asearch&meta=)) Its a really effective tool, you should try it sometime, I hear all the cool folk do.

It's kinda better if you just post it, cause then everyone that's been here for a while can make fun of you... :innocent:

[Sniper]

It's kinda better if you just post it, cause then everyone that's been here for a while can make fun of you... :innocent:

Yea, but there are occasions when something has been posted TOO much

[MazTLR]

Thought it might be a repost ,did do a search, did not find it, as everybody labels there post different. But anyway how else would u lot get your post count higher, without a repost comment, lol all good fun keeps the site going.

[silverado]

The Honda rider was traveling at such a "very high speed", his reaction
time was not sufficient enough to avoid this accident. Swedish Police
estimate a speed of ~250 KM/h (155mph) before the bike hit the slow moving car side-on at an intersection. At that speed, they predicted that the rider's reaction time (once the vehicle came into view) wasn't sufficient enough for him to even apply the brakes. The car had two passengers and
the bike rider was found INSIDE the car with them. The Volkswagen actually
flipped over from the force of impact and landed 10 feet from where the
collision took place.

All three involved (two in car and rider) were killed instantly. This
graphic demonstration was placed at the Stockholm Motorcycle Fair by the Swedish Police and Road Safety Department. The sign above the display also noted that the rider had only recently obtained his license.


At 250 KM (155 mph) the operator is traveling at 227 feet per second. With normal reaction time to SEE-DECIDE-REACT of 1.6 seconds the above operator would have traveled over 363 feet while making a decision on what actions to take. In this incident the Swedish police indicate that no actions were taken.


I'm thinking that wearin a helmet wouldn't have mattered much.... Ouch!

[Pumba]

Ouch thats going to leave a mark.

However there seams to be alot of missing blood for an accident that three people died in? And the tailpiece looks in suprisingly good condition if the car rolled like stated in the text.

Or I could be paranoid and think everything is one big conspiricy

[Firefight]

well , what are you waiting for man ?


F/F

[Maha]

well , what are you waiting for man ?


F/F

Is tha one of his rental cars?.....:shit:

[Karma]

well , what are you waiting for man ?


F/F


Has it really been the pre-requisite 3 months since this was last posted?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=28634&highlight=Stockholm+Motorcycle+Fair

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=11466&highlight=Stockholm+Motorcycle+Fair

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=10652&highlight=Stockholm+Motorcycle+Fair

[Pwalo]

Sorry but that's been posting here, and on many other boards before. It still doesn't quite look kosher.

[Virago]

Silverado, it's not rocket science.

Click on the search button. Type a key phrase like "swedish police" and click "go". That way you can see how many times this bloody topic has been posted before, and you can avoid wasting everyone's time.

Basic forum etiquette.......

[Virago]

Has it really been the pre-requisite 3 months since this was last posted?

No, only three days........

[Sanx]

It's a set up. Sure, the crash may have taken place, but they sure as hell didn't remove three bodies and the blood from that wreck without disturbing everything or removing the motorbike. They've taken the wreck (or more than one wreck) and simply shoved as much of the bike back into the car for visual impact. Notice how the rear of the bike's undamaged and protruding from the side of the car, but yet the car's meant to have flipped over from the impact. How did the back of the bike not sustain any damage? Essentially, I never trust any statistic or display produced by the Police or government when it comes to speed-related accidents. Most governments have vested interests in trying to justify heavier and heavier policing. It's therefore in their best interests to distort statistics and manipulate information to suit these aims.

It's very easy to say the bike was doing 250kph, but police crash examiners have a habit of vastly overestimating speeds.

I also question, somewhat, the see-decide-react time of 1.6 seconds. Sure, in some parts of South Auckland it's double that. Sut for the majority of bike riders, I'd have thought under half that was the norm. NZ works on a 1.5 second reaction time, according to the official stopping distance figures. The UK, on the same basis, works on a .75 second reaction time. I'd have hoped that anyone on a bike on a regular basis would be able to hit their brakes in under half a second. At 250kph, assuming a .75 second reaction time, you'd still travel 52 metres before taking any action ... but it puts the crash in a different light somewhat.

[Sniper]

ARGH!!! :thud: :no:

[Genestho]

check my site out www.badd.co.nz and you'll see why bikers have to be aware of their surroundings, its the most nastiest carnage yet, if this doesnt pull some heads in I dont know what will...
just a wee foot note, its not that often its the bike's fault
cheers

baddnz@gmail.com

[rudolph]

Thats so fake

[YellowDog]

A shocking example. I would also question the 1.6 second 'Police Stated' reaction time.

[K5 750]

Thats pretty hard to look at actually. Not nice at all. On the news today at lunch there was a guy on a Busa in England, riding in the wet doing 122 Mph with his son on the back. He was photographed just as he was about to enter a corner and his son had no gloves on. As a result he is spending time in jail and looking his licence for six months. In the wet his reaction times would not be so good at that speed either....:no:

[tigertim20]

Speed kills IS over done, more attention to surroundings WILL in EVERY case increase YOUR chancs of coming out of it ok, because you are alert, and watching others, side roads, other traffic, pedestrians and constantly looking for a way out. awareness and training and a re-hash of how we get our liscenses is the key to this.
It doesnt matter if YOU NEVER break a speed limit, its about all the other F$#@wits out there. If you worry ALL about what YOU are doing, then your are going to die, because you werent watching out for that dickhead who was creeping forward at the T intersection, trying to make it into a tiny gap, and thus YOU didnt create an opportunity for YOU to be aware of, or make an evasive manouvre, that would have been an alternative to plowing into them.

Im sick of the speed kills rubbish. we still have a road toll thats WAY too high. Time to try something NEW like more driver training at every level of liscencing.

[scumdog]

Im sick of the speed kills rubbish. we still have a road toll thats WAY too high. Time to try something NEW like more driver training at every level of liscencing.

Like Finland with THREE years as a Learner, mandatory night-driving training etc.

But moaning Kiwi plonkers would whinge it 'wasn't fair'.:angry:

[piston broke]

Like Finland with THREE years as a Learner, mandatory night-driving training etc.

But moaning Kiwi plonkers would whinge it 'wasn't fair'.:angry:

i reckon put all people on a bike for the first 6+months.
surely it would make people think about the road, conditions and what is going on around them.
i'm amazed at the amount of car drivers that corner in the wet with 2 wheels on the paint,even if it is there inside wheels,they really don't understand how much traction they have lost.
that is just one point,there are many more.

[peasea]

Like Finland with THREE years as a Learner, mandatory night-driving training etc.

But moaning Kiwi plonkers would whinge it 'wasn't fair'.:angry:

Dunno about doing three years on a learners, why not have a 'prove yourself course'? That way the 'naturals' can get a full license in short order thanks to their skills while others who need to hone their skills can go and do so over time. Night driving training is a good idea though and learning what to do with mirrors and indicators is also helpful.

There simply isn't enough supervised training time for people who want to get a bike license. After riding for donkey's years without one I went through the process and documented it; what a farce! Several hundred dollars went west and I noted no more than 45mins of supervised riding. It was bollocks! In the final test for my full I actually LOST the tester in traffic! How the fuck could she have known what I was doing while out of sight?

I don't think our current system is too bad though (anything can be improved) but the testing was poorly executed in my case and (IMHO) the process could benefit many if the focus was more on the riding than paper shuffling. One on one training is ideal but very expensive. I don't have any problem with a graduated license system overall but if someone wants to attend (and pay for) an advanced course to reduce the time spent at each level then provision should be made for such. Also, if you attended several of these courses and became (for example) a 'Gold Class' license holder perhaps your insurance premiums could be lowered or the ACC portion of your rego' reduced etc. Give a driver/rider some incentive to better themselves.

As an aside SD; the Delta Nats??? LMAO, is that a new political party down there?

[Squiggles]

Currently we're throwing riders and drivers out there who dont need to have clue, all they have to do is tick a few answers they've studied, and manage to not fuckup for 20minutes. If you do a DD course, youll learn not to put the aircon on recycle, and the difference between fog and normal lights. Amazing how many have no idea.

And since when was mum a qualified instructor? She cant back for shit, cant check her tyre pressures, doesnt stop at stop signs, regularly speeds and cant hold a line to save herself. Little jimmy's going to learn real good from her. :angry2:



That way the 'naturals' can get a full license in short order thanks to their skills while others who need to hone their skills can go and do so over time.

There are no 'naturals' out there, accelerated learning leaves gaps in understanding. Better for there to be no exceptions and for everyone to just toe the line. The shortened period for cagers to get on ZX10's is just stupid.

[peasea]

Currently we're throwing riders and drivers out there who dont need to have clue, all they have to do is tick a few answers they've studied, and manage to not fuckup for 20minutes. If you do a DD course, youll learn not to put the aircon on recycle, and the difference between fog and normal lights. Amazing how many have no idea.

And since when was mum a qualified instructor? She cant back for shit, cant check her tyre pressures, doesnt stop at stop signs, regularly speeds and cant hold a line to save herself. Little jimmy's going to learn real good from her. :angry2:




There are no 'naturals' out there, accelerated learning leaves gaps in understanding. Better for there to be no exceptions and for everyone to just toe the line. The shortened period for cagers to get on ZX10's is just stupid.

It could be argued that to put anyone on a ZX10 is "just stupid".

[Finn]

Like Finland with THREE years as a Learner, mandatory night-driving training etc.

There gotta be something in this. Finland has produced some of the world best racing drivers.

[peasea]

There gotta be something in this. Finland has produced some of the world best racing drivers.

Good point; they always Finnish well.

Is Finnish humour, ya?

[Finn]

Good point; they always Finnish well.

Is Finnish humour, ya?

Yarp......

[YellowDog]

There gotta be something in this. Finland has produced some of the world best racing drivers.
Here's another Statistic:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10560305
Anthony Stewart Hill - Just a school kid - RIP

[cowboyz]

I think comprehensive tests involving track time, skid pads, defensive driving and a whole bunch of other things should be required to get a licence.

Then when you pass (and if it takes a year or 10 years) when you prove you can pass the test then you can get out there on the road.

This creates other problems where people will be taught how to do the test rather than how to ride/drive. Just have to hope they pick up a few skills on the way.

[Naki Rat]

Received as an HSE email at work with a suitable biased blurb but essentially the Honda was allegedly traveling at approximately 85mph. The VW driver was talking on a cellphone when she pulled out from a side street, apparently not seeing the motorcycle.The car had two passengers and the bike rider was found INSIDE the car with them.

The Volkswagen actually flipped over from the force of impact and landed 20 feet from where the collision took place. All three involved (two in the car and the bike rider) were killed instantly.

Also "This graphic demonstration was placed at the Motorcycle Fair by the Police and Road Safety Department."

I have doubts as to the genuineness of the story/photos. Bit of propaganda??

[p.dath]

This has been discussed before:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=10652&highlight=Motorcycle+Fair

[Naki Rat]

Apologies for the repost but just goes to prove how the same old barrow gets pushed out so many times under so many guises :zzzz:

[Finn]

It's a fake.

[CookMySock]

It's a fake.It's a good fake though, and one that benefits us.

If I am going to die because some idiot pulls out in from of me, then so are they. :yes:

Steve

[James Deuce]

One gets tired of unleashing Snopes on the credulous.

[CookMySock]

One gets tired of unleashing Snopes on the credulous.Well lets unleash the credulous on the unsuspecting then. :yes:

Steve

[Taz]

Geez Naki Rat are you in trouble posting this up again...... You'll be lucky not to be banned for this :lol:

[Badjelly]

It's a good fake though, and one that benefits us.

Oh well, that's all right then.

This shows me I should never believe anything you say. Oh wait, I already knew that.

[slofox]

Funny place to park your bike...

[Naki Rat]

Geez Naki Rat are you in trouble posting this up again...... You'll be lucky not to be banned for this :lol:

So sue me :shutup::bye::rofl:

[CookMySock]

Oh well, that's all right then. This shows me I should never believe anything you say. Oh wait, I already knew that.Where is your reasoning? Where is the logic? Why just a disparaging remark? Why say anything at all?

Resorting to an insult instead of contributing to the forum just shows how hard you lost.

Steve

[Badjelly]

Where is your reasoning? Where is the logic? Why just a disparaging remark? Why say anything at all?

Resorting to an insult instead of contributing to the forum just shows how hard you lost.

I didn't know there was a competition to lose.

OK, then, being 100% serious, I think using fake evidence to make a case is a bad idea because it is: dishonest; likely to backfire. (Like most non-sociopaths, I am a little unsure about which of these is the bigger problem.)

Have I earned the right to resort to an insult now, Dr Goebbels?

PS: I'm just taking the piss really. No offence intended.

[Mschvs]

ohhh shows the danger of driving cages a!!! trapped in there with bike all wrapped around ya ready to go bang................. maybe he'll look twice before pulling out in front of a bike again a

I completely agree, it's pretty obvious who was at fault in that one ... what do they say ... if they hits your drivers door 99% of the time you are in the wrong??

[Naki Rat]

I completely agree, it's pretty obvious who was at fault in that one ... what do they say ... if they hits your drivers door 99% of the time you are in the wrong??

Okay.... but does that include hitting the drivers door from the inside as happened here?

[marioc]

Its as old as it is fake