Michael Laws accused of bullying children

[Mully]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2828828/Michael-Laws-accused-of-bullying-pupils

Sorry, is this actually news to anybody?


Mr Laws replied to the children that he would take their views seriously "when your class starts addressing the real issues affecting Maoridom particularly the appalling rate of child abuse and child murder within Maori society, then I will take the rest of your views seriously".

He added: "Perhaps sacking your teacher for allowing such misapprehension to flourish?"

[Forest]

Ngarui Waahitia-Manukau, 12, and her year 7 and 8 classmates at Otaki School's kura kaupapa unit wrote letters in Maori to Mr Laws at the beginning of August, saying they thought the spelling of Wanganui should have an "h".

I'm impressed that they even got a reply.

I wonder who paid for the translation services...

[Beemer]

I get sick of kids being involved in protest action of any kind - letters, signs, etc as they invariably would have no clue what they are actually protesting about. They may have been told "it's correct to have an H in Wanganui" and be thinking "yes, it should have an H" but to be honest, as Laws said, kids of that age wouldn't really give a shit either way and as they don't even bloody well live in Wanganui, what's it got to do with them anyway?

[Mully]

I get sick of kids being involved in protest action of any kind - letters, signs, etc as they invariably would have no clue what they are actually protesting about. They may have been told "it's correct to have an H in Wanganui" and be thinking "yes, it should have an H" but to be honest, as Laws said, kids of that age wouldn't really give a shit either way and as they don't even bloody well live in Wanganui, what's it got to do with them anyway?

I actually agree with you - I doubt the kids gave a monkeys about the 'H' in particular. My issue is with the way Laws comes across when he replies to people.

Seems to me that getting kids "involved" in democratic society at an early age can only be positive.

Whether or not they were "set-up" by the teacher to do so in this case, at least they are making their views heard.

Your views and opinions are based on what you are told at that age - if they were told (rightly or wrongly) that Wanganui should have an "h", then why can't they write to Laws to express their views?

All he had to do was write back "Thanks for your letters. We had a referendum (didn't they??) and the people of Wanganui voted for no h".

[short-circuit]

He coulda make you all real happy and just given them a right old smacking

[Mully]

He coulda make you all real happy and just given them a right old smacking

As long as they aren't his children.....

[MisterD]

Michael Laws: providing free life-lessons since ages ago....:clap:

[short-circuit]

Up there with the likes of Christine Rankin and Paul Holmes

[oldrider]

I get sick of kids being involved in protest action of any kind - letters, signs, etc as they invariably would have no clue what they are actually protesting about. They may have been told "it's correct to have an H in Wanganui" and be thinking "yes, it should have an H" but to be honest, as Laws said, kids of that age wouldn't really give a shit either way and as they don't even bloody well live in Wanganui, what's it got to do with them anyway?

But they (the children) will be the taxpayers or elected officials governing his (Laws) quality of care when he is old age pensioner!

They may well ask him to sit up and beg for his supper!

Simply by demanding he write and pronounce Wanganui with an "H" :doh:

How suddenly the hunter becomes the hunted! :eek:

[ManDownUnder]

I'd accuse Michael Laws of being an intelligent man that speaks his mind.

Love him or loathe him - you have to respect someone willing to stand up for he thinks. The fact he's not exactly PC helps too!

[short-circuit]

The fact he's not exactly PC helps too!

Change the record - at least adopt a new cliché

He's a biggot and a pervert

[MisterD]

He's a biggot and a pervert

He's a professional controversialist...and a very good one as you demonstrate...

[short-circuit]

He's a professional controversialist...and a very good one as you demonstrate...

This I will accept - it's a long way from having intellect though

[marty]

I'm impressed that they even got a reply.

I wonder who paid for the translation services...

I hope he wrote back to them in english telling them the S comes AFTER the K in 'ask'

[peasea]

I hope he wrote back to them in english telling them the S comes AFTER the K in 'ask'

Too true. I also wonder why it is that words like Whangarei are pronounced Fonga-ray, when the maori had no written language of their own. Along comes Mister Euro, who gives them one, and the wh in words like 'what' and 'where' becomes the sound of an 'f'.

Fot the?

[Daffyd]

Who gives a whuck?

[ManDownUnder]

Change the record - at least adopt a new cliché

He's a biggot and a pervert

What record's that? My I love Michael Laws one or the lack of support for PC bullshit?

[Pussy]

Fot the?
Don't be a whanker, Peasea.....

[peasea]

Don't be a whanker, Peasea.....

I'll stop being a whanker if you stop being a cheeky whucker.

[Pussy]

I'll stop being a whanker if you stop being a cheeky whucker.

Whair enough!

[short-circuit]

What record's that? My I love Michael Laws one or the lack of support for PC bullshit?

How about both?


Seriously the "PC" line is a wee bit tired and a wee bit feeble.


And do you really think Michael Laws needs your loving - given how much he appears to love himself?

[ManDownUnder]

How about both?
Naaaa - no can do



Seriously the "PC" line is a wee bit tired and a wee bit feeble.
Must admit I agree with you on this to a limited extent. PC bullshit is just that, and the PC brigade are so popular and have general acceptance so a bit of noise against them is all one fulla can make.

Why the problem with it, unless you are Pro PC?


And do you really think Michael Laws needs your loving - given how much he appears to love himself?
Nope - and I don't love him. Respect him though. I was pointing out a few assets he has

[short-circuit]

Why the problem with it, unless you are Pro PC?

It's a senseless term for a start - A marxist with a strong social conscience would have a completely different idea of "political correctness" to a Capitalist Social Darwinian....

would they not?


It seems to me that claiming to be anti-PC is usually code for - racist, selfish, ignorant, white and "middleclass"

[jaymzw]

Just an off topic question bowt Michael Laws.

Does he wear eyeliner???

[short-circuit]

Just an off topic question bowt Michael Laws.

Does he wear eyeliner???

My guess is very probably....along with women's G strings as well.


Maybe this is part of the attraction ManDownUnder?

[ManDownUnder]

It's a senseless term for a start - A marxist with a strong social conscience would have a completely different idea of "political correctness" to a Capitalist Social Darwinian....

would they not?
oooOOOooo someone's been reading their Wiki! Quite right, however in the New Zealand context it's pretty safe to assume that is not the case and you're trying to obfuscate the issue with a rare and extreme example.


It seems to me that claiming to be anti-PC is usually code for - racist, selfish, ignorant, white and "middleclass"

That's one out of four. Must try harder?

[Mully]

It seems to me that claiming to be anti-PC is usually code for - racist, selfish, ignorant, white and "middleclass"



That's one out of four. Must try harder?

Umm, that's one out of five, man.

[Jonno.]

It seems to me that claiming to be anti-PC is usually code for - racist, selfish, ignorant, white and "middleclass"
It seems to me that being PC means you can't debate anything and have to result to name calling.

[ManDownUnder]

Umm, that's one out of five, man.

I guess that makes it two out of five then... bugger!

[chef]

just saw this on the news. those kids dont need to worry about it at all considering there from otaki...maoris stiring up bull.s again

[short-circuit]

oooOOOooo someone's been reading their Wiki! Quite right, however in the New Zealand context it's pretty safe to assume that is not the case and you're trying to obfuscate the issue with a rare and extreme example.

Nothing extreme about it at all.

Politics are merely the expression and implementation of personal and societal values. They exist on a very wide continuum.



continuum


left<------------------Politics------------------>right


Where would you place "political correctness"? You seem to be suggesting that whoever you disagree with has a monopoly on the meaningless term


Laws isn't "anti PC". He's just a bastard who's politics stink to high heaven

[ManDownUnder]

Nothing extreme about it at all.

Politics are merely the expression and implementation of personal and societal values. They exist on a very wide continuum.



continuum


left<------------------Politics------------------>right


Very good - I like it.... but the term actually as very little to do with specific political leanings or dogma.

As a concept it it's own right, with no political affiliations whatsoever, here's (http://www.answers.com/topic/political-correctness) a nice defintion of it... or another nicer one I found... "The fervent assertion that's it's possible to pick up a turd buy the clean end".



Laws isn't "anti PC". He's just a bastard who's politics stink to high heaven

He's able to address the societal issue without getting bound up in the minutea of a specific issue. A spade gets called a spade and I'm sure he'd rather be described as short than vertically challenged.

I don;t agree with all the things he says or does... but at least you know what the fuck he's getting at when he opens his mouth (which possibly explains his absence on KB...!)

[Katman]

I'm going to start spelling it Phanganui.

[duckonin]

All Mahori drama again, good on Laws he is a no bullshit dude like him or loath him..

But again the same silly chant has begun again lead by a dip shit teacher using kids who really do not care at this time in their life on the crusade of whucken Whanganui..opps Wanganui..

In the Musem at Invers under all the drama "Treaty of Whaitangi" there is a large glass case with a book in side open at a paticular page.

The whording in this book clearly shows for all to see Wanganui was spelt without a H way back in 1800's not to be quoted but it was in 1867 or there abouts, there has never been a problem untill now. The Mahoris must of spelt it that way for it to be whritten down as such back when..

Years later the bugle blows, buggar me, it is the Mahori Great Grandson of whait for it... "General Mair "who led the wharge on the Mahoris" during the Mahori whars, whanting it spelt his way :msn-wink:

[short-circuit]

Very good - I like it.... but the term actually as very little to do with specific political leanings or dogma.

As a concept it it's own right, with no political affiliations whatsoever, here's (http://www.answers.com/topic/political-correctness) a nice defintion of it... or another nicer one I found... "The fervent assertion that's it's possible to pick up a turd buy the clean end".


The definintions in your link are both politically loaded though. Using the continuum above, I would suggest the first definition in your link would be more closely aligned to the left and the second definition aligned to the right.

The term itself is still a tired cliche that is ultimately meaningless

But if we accept it as it's written in you link, then what the fuck is wrong with aligning oneself to the aims stated in the first definition?

[short-circuit]

at least you know what the fuck he's getting at when he opens his mouth (which possibly explains his absence on KB...!)

Yes the views of an ignorant cunt

[peasea]

It seems to me that claiming to be anti-PC is usually code for - racist, selfish, ignorant, white and "middleclass"

....and your point?

[chef]

LOLOLOL the interveiw on close up. the little no brainers didnt even know what to say when asked questions, how pathetic. man ive never seen so many dreamers in my life. i dont know maoris try to cause so much bull THERE FROM OTAKI FFS!

[short-circuit]

....and your point?

You mate, are a case in point for demonstrating what the anti "PC" brigade are really all about....

Social retards

[peasea]

You mate, are a case in point for demonstrating what the anti "PC" brigade are really all about....

Social retards

You hate me because of my initials, don't you?

[Dave Lobster]

Those children didn't look very maori to me.

About 98% european by the look of them..

How many maori people do you need to know these days to be classed as one of them?

I once knew someone whose dad was in the Ruttles..

[peasea]

Those children didn't look very maori to me.

About 98% european by the look of them..

How many maori people do you need to know these days to be classed as one of them?

I once knew someone whose dad was in the Ruttles..

You can be adopted into the hapu can't you? That'll do. Get yourself some citizenship while you're at it, a few acres here and there, some fishing quota and a forest or two. Bingo!

"We can retire in Florida now, mister!"

Off topic: OMG The Goodies revisited.

[Dave Lobster]

You can be adopted into the hapu can't you? That'll do. Get yourself some citizenship while you're at it, a few acres here and there, some fishing quota and a forest or two. Bingo!




Ooo... I can buy citizenship from some islander guy, can't I?? He looks honest..

[peasea]

Ooo... I can buy citizenship from some islander guy, can't I?? He looks honest..

I reckon he should be selling used cars too.

[chef]

Ooo... I can buy citizenship from some islander guy, can't I?? He looks honest..

yea only $500 haha

[short-circuit]

Post #40 onwards just sums up how a wanker like Laws ends up in a position of influence...

Probably all talkback junkies too judging by the intellect displayed through their contributions

[chef]

Post #40 onwards just sums up how a wanker like Laws ends up in a position of influence...

Probably all talkback junkies too judging by the intellect displayed through their contributions

laws isnt the wanker he didnt do anything wrong. he is a mayor.. what are you?

[SPman]

.most of it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to short-circuit again.......

[short-circuit]

laws isnt the wanker he didnt do anything wrong. he is a mayor.. what are you?


Aparrently I'm "politically correct" according to definition 1:

http://www.answers.com/topic/political-correctness

[SixPackBack]

laws isnt the wanker he didnt do anything wrong. he is a mayor.. what are you?

Laws is an emotive, self serving twat, he preys on collective community fears and brings out the very worst in folk. His presence in Wanganui has produced no discernible change in the community for the better, and he has done his level best to create division [Wanganui vs Whanganui] and now the insignia BS.
Laws cares about one thing only-himself.

[davereid]

Hmm.. even in my short experience, my grandkids have radically changed both the meaning, and pronounciation of common words.

I don't mean stealing words, like with "Gay" when you mean homosexual.

I dont really mean mean "choice bro" when you mean (actually I'm not sure what it means.)

Even Mr. Key say Nooseelund when he means New Zealand.

The point is, that the early recorded spellings of words, are in all likelyhood more accurate descriptions of how they were said, than the versions passed on orally and described as correct 150 years later.

There is NO evidence that Wanganui was said as Fonganui 150 ago. If that is how it was said, that is how it would have been written.

IMHO the word was recorded correctly, and our modern version is wrong.

So sayeth ye olde scribe thank ye.

[Grahameeboy]

Laws is an emotive, self serving twat, he preys on collective community fears and brings out the very worst in folk. His presence in Wanganui has produced no discernible change in the community for the better, and he has done his level best to create division [Wanganui vs Whanganui] and now the insignia BS.
Laws cares about one thing only-himself.

I have never heard of him but just sounds like he says things that some people don't like....that's life and you cannot accuse anyone of bringing the worst out of people...it's their choice.

[nothingflash]

About 98% european by the look of them..

Much like the many of the NZ Maori rugby players gone by...Tony Brown, Paul Tito...

[Skyryder]

Change the record - at least adopt a new cliché

He's a biggot and a pervert

Yep and on his talkback whenever someone who knows what they are talking about and has a different view from his own he cuts them off and derides their intellect with his sarcasm and rudeness. Laws is nothing more than a verbal bully with an over blown view of his intelligence and self importance.

This was evident with his attitude to Mark Sainsbury on ONE tonight.

Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

This was evident with his attitude to Mark Sainsbury on ONE tonight.

Skyryder

During or after he ran rings around him? Laws was discussing concepts Sainsbury was even aware of and every time Sainsbury tried to paint him into a corner Laws quite rightly brought it back on topic.

[ManDownUnder]

He's a biggot and a pervert

Out of curiousity - why pervert? Where did that come from?

[SS90]

Up there with the likes of Christine Rankin and Paul Holmes

No, Michael Laws is a well qualified professional person who made his way to where he is with hard work and determination.

Sure, he is not perfect, but I would have him round for dinner with my family LONG before I would even stop to give directions to Paul Holmes (probably asking for directions to the Police station to pick bail out his greatest achievement "Milli, sucking cock for P" Elder (well done Paul, your a role model for Dad's everywhere)

Paul Holmes is simply a curly haird bludger (who became a millionair at the taxpayers expense), failed to raise his step daughter correctly and crashes light aircraft.

Nothing more

Christine Rankin, she is TWICE THE MAN Paul Holmes will ever be!

I am not saying I am a Michael Laws fan (he does seem a little Narsisic and perhaps a bit of a Manipulator), but hey, at least he works for his money and some things he achieves the community benefits from.

All this shit over "H" or no "H" has more than likely cost us MILLIONS.

WHY?

Even the news item was broadcast on PUBLIC TELEVISION....... that means it cost's for the production of the show (OK, Paul Holmes isn't presenting the show, so that's 6 Million per year we don't need to find)

We have a group of kids, LEARNING MOARI AT THE FUCKING TAXPAYERS EXPENSE.......

OK, cool.

"What did you do with your TAXPAYER FUNDED TE REO MOARI course today KIDDIES?"

"OH, WE WROTE A LETTER IN MOARI TO MICHAEL LAWS VOICING OUR OPINION OF THE OMMISSION OF A LETTER IN A PLACE NAME WE DON'T EVEN LIVE IN"

"But kids, Michael Laws can't read Maori,that means that a translator had to be found to translate from TEO REO MAORI into English.......that's quite expensive. Wouldn't it have been better to write in in English, which he understands, and saves on miscommunication and doesn't make you look like you are trying to be elitest?"

"The what the fuck are we going to do with our education?"

"Mai time presenter maybe?"

[sidecar bob]

Yep and on his talkback whenever someone who knows what they are talking about and has a different view from his own he cuts them off and derides their intellect with his sarcasm and rudeness. Laws is nothing more than a verbal bully with an over blown view of his intelligence and self importance.

This was evident with his attitude to Mark Sainsbury on ONE tonight.

Skyryder

Have you ever listened to Willie Jackson & his idiot brown mate on the other talk back show? sounds familiar.
Also, why is Whakatane pronounced Fucker Tarny? Yet a Whaka isint pronounced Fucker?

[MSTRS]

Have you ever listened to Willie Jackson & his idiot brown mate on the other talk back show? sounds familiar.
Also, why is Whakatane pronounced Fucker Tarny? Yet a Whaka isint pronounced Fucker?

The canoe is Waka. That's why.
I, too, watched Close Up. Those kids wouldn't have an original idea between them, if it wasn't given to them by the equally ignorant adults that claim to be educating them. The cheek of the girl suggesting she sees it as her duty to correct people's use/pronunciation of Maori...all spoken in barely recognisable English. And that headmaster? "If Laws has a problem, he should come to Otaki to talk about it". FFS.
If they were truly being educated they would know that Taranaki Maori did not use the 'F' sound. The 'H' after 'W' for them is probably correct...but only insofaras it denotes a breathe-y 'HWA' sound. Not a 'FFIH' sound.
Besides, if the 'correct' pronunciation was so important, everybody's favourite white radical, Ken Mair (any relation to that hallowed KB clan?), would not refer to the brown citizens as 'Marree". Or is he right, and everyone else wrong?
Good on Laws for putting it right back where it belongs.

[sidecar bob]

The canoe is Waka. That's why.


W.I.B.F I musta not been paying attention in Mahori studies then.
Hey if its good enough for Waka not to have an H then its probably ok for Wanganui too!!!
Or maybe we should lobby for waka to be changed as well.
I mean, its our duty to teach Maori how to spell their own language seeing as they didnt seem to have a written language until european arrived.

[Skyryder]

Have you ever listened to Willie Jackson & his idiot brown mate on the other talk back show? sounds familiar.
Also, why is Whakatane pronounced Fucker Tarny? Yet a Whaka isint pronounced Fucker?

Good point and oddly enough I tend to agree with Laws on the H thing. I once made the mistake of useing the correct pronounciation for lake Wakatipu as a teen ager with two Maoris I use to work with. Cunts laughed at me so now I do not even try. It's 'wakatane' as far as I'm concerned. How little things make a big impression.

As for Jackson and his mate..................only on the odd occasion. Those two simply just take the piss out of each other and those that call in take these two way too seriously. On their own they can make the odd valid point but as a team they 'deliberatly' act like buffoons to enterain a like mind.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

During or after he ran rings around him? Laws was discussing concepts Sainsbury was even aware of and every time Sainsbury tried to paint him into a corner Laws quite rightly brought it back on topic.

Yes he did and that is what makes Laws such an arshole. There is no need for him to be so rude but he is so much in love with with his own intellect he can not help himself.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

I mean, its our duty to teach Maori how to spell their own language seeing as they didnt seem to have a written language until european arrived.

Yes and I'm still waiting for an official thank you from Maori for my culture giving them one.


Skyryder

[MSTRS]

Not going to get one.
Anyway, who gives a ... how Maori words are spelt. It's how they are pronounced that matters. And different areas say them differently. Just like regional dialects/accents all over the world. Funny, that.

[ManDownUnder]

So let me get this right...


Yes he did
Point 1... you agree with me

...that is what makes Laws such an arshole.
Point 2 - You call him an arsehole, in his absence I note - not giving him any right of reply...


There is no need for him to be so rude
... then you tell him not to be rude

[ManDownUnder]

Not going to get one.
Anyway, who gives a ... how Maori words are spelt. It's how they are pronounced that matters. And different areas say them differently. Just like regional dialects/accents all over the world. Funny, that.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!

LOL they're spelled the traditional Maori way!. Y'know... as the ancients did.

[MSTRS]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!

LOL they're spelled the traditional Maori way!. Y'know... as the ancients did.

And written down using the traditional stylus. You know, the Bic that used to belong to someone else....

[Indiana_Jones]

Seems to me that getting kids "involved" in democratic society at an early age can only be positive.


True.

But they also have to learn that most people will not agree with them and tell them to get fucked lol.

Met a few people who have only just learnt this in life and has made them rather bitter.

-Indy

[Robert Taylor]

I'd accuse Michael Laws of being an intelligent man that speaks his mind.

Love him or loathe him - you have to respect someone willing to stand up for he thinks. The fact he's not exactly PC helps too!

Exactly, Ive always thought he is a weazel. But Youve got to admire his guts even though his application goes for the jugular. That school principal was manipulating those kids and he has got ''lefty'' written all over him. Loathsome character.
I have to say I agree with Michael Laws and I hope other district councils take the lead of making it hard for gangs and their filthy activities.

[SS90]

Exactly, Ive always thought he is a weazel. But Youve got to admire his guts even though his application goes for the jugular. That school principal was manipulating those kids and he has got ''lefty'' written all over him. Loathsome character.
I have to say I agree with Michael Laws and I hope other district councils take the lead of making it hard for gangs and their filthy activities.

I don't think I would go as far as to label him a "weasel", but that is a matter of opinion really.

I too admire his guts both on this standpoint, as well as the gangpatch situation.

Just think about how difficult it will be for Michael Laws to live it that town now, in a world where it is CRITICAL to CONFORM (particularly in politics, and especially a situation where you are standing up to the dangerous black hole that is RACIAL HARMONY in NZ) Michael Laws is daring to stand his ground, and represent the RATE PAYERS OF THE TOWN FOR WHICH HE HAS BEEN ELECTED (TWICE).

Isn't that what he is paid to do?

Also, he is also standing his ground on the spelling thing, because it will cost the ratepayers MILLIONS to change the spelling of the town (just think about it)

Do I think Maoridom like Michael Laws in the slightest, no, but if you think about it, he is acting for the benefit of the ratepayers who elected him.

He is actually doing his job.

W.W.P.H.D.?
(What would Paul Holmes do?)

[JimO]

He coulda make you all real happy and just given them a right old smacking

if they were maori kids their parents will probably beat them to death anyway

[merv]

Anyway, the Teaty had us agree to having a bi-cultural society. That being the case, isn't there a case then for bi-lingual signage.

If the white people call the place Wanganui and the brown people call it Fonganui (Whanganui) then why not write the two names on signs. How dare the brown fellahs have our version taken from us!

[SS90]

I think the best point is simply to state the facts (as others have)

Maori did not have a written language (or guns, or Harley's, or Tabacco, or playstation,or Toyota skylines,or "P",or Beer) before us "honkys" cursed them with it.

How did the Maori's SAY (not spell) "the town who's name we shall not spell" 200 years ago?

Fuck knows.

Can't we all just get along without the need for pity (expensive) arguments?

Those kids that wrote the letter (because OF COURSE it was was THEIR idea)...NOT their headmasters aye!:shifty:

I am all for Maoridom keeping their culture, just as New Zealand European keep theirs.

Both can exsist in harmony, the only reason this made the news was because it stirs up debate.

The bloody kids can't even drive for 5 more years, or vote for 9, so I say FUCK em........ they are only going to be on the dole anyway if they study nothing but Teo Reo Maori (maybe they can be Mai time presenters,or teach the language to the next generation), which is cool, but how does making a living off the taxpayer contribute to the good of a nation as a whole?

From what I see, this School they go to is teaching these kids to be complaining elitest misinformed "radicals"

Don't think that was in "the treaty"

What about addressing the REAL needs of Maoridom (poverty,lack of education drug addiction etc)

Not writing ill informed letters to a mayor of a town they don't live in. In a language he doesn't understand.

It is about as rellevent as a letter from an 80 year old Vietnamese prostitute.

Kids.....write a letter to the "Headhunters" and ask them to stop giving honest Maoris a bad name. That would be worth the effort in my book.

[Trouser]

After seeing the contents of the letter from 'the kids' I think Mr Laws was quite reserved in his reply. Good on him.

[scrivy]

My Surname is always pronounced wrong. Scrivener - Schrivener, Screwvinor, Scribenor, etc. etc....
I'm off to write an ill informed letter to the perpertrators of such a deed!!
Fuckers!!
Oh, and I'll use the race card too. :2thumbsup

Might even try and get people educated into the correct way to say it...... ;)

[Kickaha]

My Surname is always pronounced wrong. Scrivener - Schrivener, Screwvinor, Scribenor, etc. etc....
I'm off to write an ill informed letter to the perpertrators of such a deed!!
Fuckers!!
Oh, and I'll use the race card too. :2thumbsup

Might even try and get people educated into the correct way to say it...... ;)

I thought the correct way to pronouce it was WANKER, you've always answered to that when I've called you

[Skyryder]

Exactly, Ive always thought he is a weazel. But Youve got to admire his guts even though his application goes for the jugular. That school principal was manipulating those kids and he has got ''lefty'' written all over him. Loathsome character.
I have to say I agree with Michael Laws and I hope other district councils take the lead of making it hard for gangs and their filthy activities.


Timaru is going to make a decision after the appeal process. Don't know the story on this but one of the gangs has appealed useing the Bill of Rights.

It will be interesting to see what clause in the Bill the gangs are going to use with this.

Will the banning of patches make any difference?? Probably not. They will just find another way of 'announcing' who they are by wearing colours or an icon (bandanna etc) that is associated with the gang.

Still the banning of patches is 'flipping the bird' at them and at least letting them know who 'is' in control. So I'll give Laws credit where it it's due.

Skyryder

[SS90]

It can't be easy being Michael Laws right now (or in the future), so I am of the opinion that we should all cut the guy a bit of slack.

It really takes balls to stand up to gangs (they have been known to kill babies you know, and it's harder to kill a baby than a politician).

Gangs have had NZ "by the balls" for a long time now, and I am sure everyone is aware that the whole premise of a gang is to "intimidate" people.

I see it that (well founded or not) Michael Laws refuses to be intimidated by that.

This stance may well be from some level of Narcissism from Mr Laws, but the fact that this "stance" has the potential to benefit New Zealand as a whole, gives me the ability to "over look" this possible "narcissism" (sort of like "the end justifies the means").

Every New Zealander is intimidated by gangs, not necessarily individual members, but certainly "the whole gang" weakens the strongest will.

In some sort of idealogical sense, perhaps it is time for other New Zealand councils to form a "united front" (legal gang) and implement similar measures.

You know, if people start to show that gangs don't intimidate them, the gangs will lose their level of control.

Individuals fear gangs, groups do not.

[Skyryder]

So let me get this right...


Point 1... you agree with me

Point 2 - You call him an arsehole, in his absence I note - not giving him any right of reply...


... then you tell him not to be rude

You seem to have a pretty good take on the meaning of hyprocrite.

So what would you call someone who accuses the Otaki school of child abuse when this same person writes to their students that they should sack their teacher and makes a similar claim on TV ONE, knowing full well that these children do not have the power to do so. This was a deliberate act of humiliation and consequently could also be interpreted by some as an act of child abuse.


Skyryder

[McJim]

Too true. I also wonder why it is that words like Whangarei are pronounced Fonga-ray, when the maori had no written language of their own. Along comes Mister Euro, who gives them one, and the wh in words like 'what' and 'where' becomes the sound of an 'f'.

Fot the?

I suspect the "wh" to be aspirated (not pronounced 'F') difficult to explain on a keyboard but in Scotland we pronounce what, why, where and when NOT Wot, wy, ware and wen. It's probably best described as a strong breath through the W. Unfortunately the English group of accents (English, Australian, New Zealand and South African English) are unable to adequately pronounce the letter R let alone an aspirated W they were probably forced to adopt the letter F as an approximate simile. Much the same as when English are taught French they are told that "re" at the end of the word is silent coz thay can't manage it. It's not silent at all it's a very soft r in the back of the throat.

This is known as the evlolution of language and lazy bastards thnk it's acceptable. Jus' go and axe them. :rofl:

[MSTRS]

I suspect the "wh" to be aspirated (not pronounced 'F') difficult to explain on a keyboard but in Scotland we pronounce what, why, where and when NOT Wot, wy, ware and wen. It's probably best described as a strong breath through the W. Unfortunately the English group of accents (English, Australian, New Zealand and South African English) are unable to adequately pronounce the letter R let alone an aspirated W they were probably forced to adopt the letter F as an approximate simile. Much the same as when English are taught French they are told that "re" at the end of the word is silent coz thay can't manage it. It's not silent at all it's a very soft r in the back of the throat.

This is known as the evlolution of language and lazy bastards thnk it's acceptable. Jus' go and axe them. :rofl:

Correct, McJ. To a point. As I said earlier, the Taranaki tribes spoke as you say, but not so the rest of the country. Apparently. Maori are Polynesian...look at how the other Islander languages are written (in English, of course)...full of words beginning with 'F'. For some strange reason, it was decided that here in NZ it would be written 'WH'.

Oh, with apologies to your odd accent, the work is 'aarks' :lol:

[Skyryder]

I came across just recently.

http://www.wanganui.govt.nz/News/BeagleholeReport_Summary.pdf

The name has been a mismash of spelling that has now become more of a political issue for both sides other than common sense. There is no winner with this one.

Perhaps a compromise may be the best solution. Keep the H out of the city's name but include it in the rivers name or vice versa.

Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

You seem to have a pretty good take on the meaning of hyprocrite.
Sure do - it's a fairly basic concept and with the stirling example you gave... hell... what's not to understand? Thank God I'm above all that, looking down on the hypomasses

What's the weather like down there?


So what would you call someone who accuses the Otaki school of child abuse when this same person writes to their students that they should sack their teacher and makes a similar claim on TV ONE, knowing full well that these children do not have the power to do so.

Pretty bloody savvy to be honest. Their teacher had a go at him through the kids, so he responded in a complimentary manner. Sadly the teacher was unable to see the elegance, style and appropriateness of his response.

Looks like it went roaring over your head too.


This was a deliberate act of humiliation and consequently could also be interpreted by some as an act of child abuse.

Skyryder

Coulda woulda shoulda been child abuse. What a steaming pile of dramatised horse shit. Here's the Office for the Children's Commissioner http://www.occ.org.nz/

Report your concerns, post your letter in here and be sure to include the response. Or are you talking from the wrong end of your gastrointestinal system again?

Time to put up or shut up.

[MSTRS]

Perhaps a compromise may be the best solution. Keep the H out of the city's name but include it in the rivers name

A compromise? Never knew that could mean 'status quo'...

[Skyryder]

Sure do - it's a fairly basic concept and with the stirling example you gave... hell... what's not to understand? Thank God I'm above all that, looking down on the hypomasses

What's the weather like down there?



Pretty bloody savvy to be honest. Their teacher had a go at him through the kids, so he responded in a complimentary manner. Sadly the teacher was unable to see the elegance, style and appropriateness of his response.

Looks like it went roaring over your head too.



Coulda woulda shoulda been child abuse. What a steaming pile of dramatised horse shit. Here's the Office for the Children's Commissioner http://www.occ.org.nz/

Report your concerns, post your letter in here and be sure to include the response. Or are you talking from the wrong end of your gastrointestinal system again?

Time to put up or shut up.


Thank you for handing your assessment in on time.


When using witticisms in writing make sure that they are appropriate and understood. Stating that you are above the hypo masses with a forum name of Man Down Under just makes you look as if you do not understand the difference between humour and sarcasm.

Your failure to apply the same standards to Mr. Laws as you have to Mr. Sky-Ryder shows your bias in this issue and as such you lose credibility.

Your quote of “Their teacher had a go at him through the kids, so he responded in a complimentary manner. Sadly the teacher was unable to see the elegance, style and appropriateness of his response.” If you are going to give an opinion back that up with reason and if possible facts.

With your comments on the teacher I can only conclude that you have not taken the trouble to sight the letter that Mr. Laws wrote to the children of Otaki school. I have included a copy of this letter. And the link where you can sight this should you wish to do so.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10595439

It takes little stretch of the imagination to conclude that this letter was written in hast. The handwritten scrawl at the bottom suggests this as an after thought that it’s contents and subject matter were not well thought out.
There ‘is’ no elegance or style that you claim in the sentence structure even though the contents are easily understood. There is a great deal of difference between elegant prose and that which is terse.

A letter of complaint should be easily understood and to the point and that is what Mr. Law’s has done. It’s the content and subject matter along with the instruction that children should sack their teacher that is inappropriate from anybody, let alone an elected official no matter what office that person holds or for that matter what reason..

Perhaps as a follow on from this you would like to make a comparison between Law’s letter and those of the Otaki school children in comparison to elegance and style. I would look forward to you comments on this.


Should any parent or for that matter any member of society have an issue with the school or teacher they should write to the school principle in the first instance and then to board if necessary with their concerns, not the students as Mr. Laws has done.


Your inclusion of the link to the Office of the Children’s Commissioner is no more appropriate as a response to Mr. Skyryders post as it would be for him to email the link to Mr. Law’s and asking ‘that’ office to investigate his (Law’s) allegations.


I know you can do better than this and have subsequently marked your assignment with a D MINUS in the hope that this will give you the incentive to do better next time.


Your teacher.

Mr. S.K.Y. Ryder

[Skyryder]

A compromise? Never knew that could mean 'status quo'...

Never knew that. Geog. was never my best subject. Still perhaps they could switch. Remove the H from the river and put it in the town or better still make a raft out of it and float it down the river. Great shape for raft. Not a bad PR stunt to get up Mair's nose or for that matter the Mayor's nose as well. Ha Ha. Either way there are no winners unless both sides do decide to have a race with an H shaped raft. Winner gets to choose.

Made in jest but not a bad idea even so.


Still they changed Lancaster Park to something else and it's still Lancaster Prk to me.

Skyryder

[MSTRS]

Never knew that.

What is it they say about ignorance? It's no excuse? Sounds right.

The city was founded by Europeans. And named by them. It is Wanganui - and has been since Day One.
The river and National Park adjacent are Whanganui.
The district is Wanganui.
The mixture of usage, H or no, could be confusing, or actually help identify what is being referred to when people write about the place. The H was added to the river some time ago, in deference to the local tribe/s. That should be enough, since the settlement of Maori there at the time Europeans arrived was not called Whanganui. If it was called anything, was it not Motu (as the gardens of infamy reflect)?

Most people I know (me included) think the place is a shithole, the arsehole of the central North Island. The only good thing about the place is they still allow street racing...

[peasea]

Most people I know (me included) think the place is a shithole, the arsehole of the central North Island. The only good thing about the place is they still allow street racing...

No, no, I won't have it! The arsehole of the NI is Hamilton and the only saving grace of 'The Tron' is the V8 racing.

I've had some great bonks in Wongers.....ahh the memories.

Ooops, I meant 'Whongers'. (Or Fongers....)

[ManDownUnder]

What happened to the complaint to the Children's commissioner? Don't tell me... the letter from Michael Laws [gasp] wasn't ... abuse?


Thank you for handing your assessment in on time.
So Big Ears' best mate - how do you feel about sex and travel?



When using witticisms in writing make sure that they are appropriate and understood.
Appropriate - yes. Understood... that's over to you, but it seems fast train left the station before you had the chance to board. So to spell it for you ... I said you were talking out of your arse.


Stating that you are above the hypo masses with a forum name of Man Down Under just makes you look as if you do not understand the difference between humour and sarcasm.
Tee he... that was a good one. I love the way you juxtaposed the "Down Under" in my handle with the implied inability of me to be above you. That was really clever and doesn't smack of desperation at all.

Oh wow - check that out... it seems I DO have a handle on sarcasm. Ooooo and again - wow that was a 2 for 1 deal!



Your failure to apply the same standards to Mr. Laws as you have to Mr. Sky-Ryder shows your bias in this issue and as such you lose credibility.
Oh my God you have me on the ropes but wait... no MDU steps aside (referring to himself in the third person all the while in a complimentary manner to Mr Skyrider) waiting desperately for My Skyrider to stop into the clues shop and get a few.

The difference between my response about Michael Laws and the one to you is that I respect Michael. I don't necessarily agree with him - and rest easy you're in that position too, but I respect him.


Your quote of “Their teacher had a go at him through the kids, so he responded in a complimentary manner. Sadly the teacher was unable to see the elegance, style and appropriateness of his response.” If you are going to give an opinion back that up with reason and if possible facts.
Do I have to spell this out too?
Complimentary - in the same style as. The Teacher had a go at him via the kids, and Michael had a go at the Teacher via the kids.

Elegance. Simplicity and effectiveness. It was a simple ploy that has obviously been used to great effect. We're still talking about it and there will be a lot of focus places on the teacher that put the kids up to it.

Appropriateness - They wrote, Michael responded, they got upset, he offered an opportunity for them to go over ansd learn a little more about what they were complaining about.


With your comments on the teacher I can only conclude that you have not taken the trouble to sight the letter that Mr. Laws wrote to the children of Otaki school. I have included a copy of this letter. And the link where you can sight this should you wish to do so.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10595439

You conclude a lot, from very little, and wrongly. Well done.


It takes little stretch of the imagination to conclude that this letter was written in hast. The handwritten scrawl at the bottom suggests this as an after thought that it’s contents and subject matter were not well thought out.
.... or it could suggest he's the Mayor... with a job that makes him a busy boy not having time to pander to 11 and 12 year olds that write to about all upset about something they'd never considered on their little lonesome.


There ‘is’ no elegance or style that you claim in the sentence structure even though the contents are easily understood. There is a great deal of difference between elegant prose and that which is terse.
Prose?????? What the fuck planet are you on? We're not talking Chaucer or Keats. Ooooo I see - you didn't understand "Elegant". Your well thought out response totally belies that (that was sarcasm by the way - another example in case the first one went roaring overhead as most of my comments seem to)

See my comment on 'Elegance' above. And please... do keep up.


A letter of complaint should be easily understood and to the point and that is what Mr. Law’s has done. It’s the content and subject matter along with the instruction that children should sack their teacher that is inappropriate from anybody, let alone an elected official no matter what office that person holds or for that matter what reason..
No apostrophe needed in his name - takes the punch of the argument because it make's you look silly

Whoa Noddy. If Michael has written to the principal it could/would have sat there and the very real issues of Political meddling by the teacher, child abuse and other issues in Maoridom been binned and the teacher gotten away with what they did.

A short punchy response aimed at someone else in the system seems to have have far greater effect in raising the issues, all the while using the communications channel proffered and preferred by the teacher in question.

Again I say - elegance


snippedy snip on that other words. What a pile of crap.

Your teacher.

Mr. Far Quit

Dude - get it together.

[Robert Taylor]

Timaru is going to make a decision after the appeal process. Don't know the story on this but one of the gangs has appealed useing the Bill of Rights.

It will be interesting to see what clause in the Bill the gangs are going to use with this.

Will the banning of patches make any difference?? Probably not. They will just find another way of 'announcing' who they are by wearing colours or an icon (bandanna etc) that is associated with the gang.

Still the banning of patches is 'flipping the bird' at them and at least letting them know who 'is' in control. So I'll give Laws credit where it it's due.

Skyryder

Indeed, so there needs to be a much much tougher ''stage 2!"

[Robert Taylor]

I thought the correct way to pronouce it was WANKER, you've always answered to that when I've called you

Wharwick, dont you mean WHANKER?

[Headbanger]

Most people I know (me included) think the place is a shithole, the arsehole of the central North Island. The only good thing about the place is they still allow street racing...

Patea is worse:oi-grr:

Besides, the greatest thing about Wanganui is not the street racing, Its the thousands of acres of easily accesable off-road riding areas.

[peasea]

Patea is worse:oi-grr:

Besides, the greatest thing about Wanganui is not the street racing, Its the thousands of acres of easily accesable off-road riding areas.

Read post 88, I've done some serious off-road riding in Wongers, what's the matter with you lot? The women there are gagging for it.....

[Headbanger]

True, we do have some filthy women, But more then likey they are attracted to outlanders as a means to escape.....

Shit, its either escape, whoring or working down the pet food factory.

[zahria]

True, we do have some filthy women, But more then likey they are attracted to outlanders as a means to escape.....

Shit, its either escape, whoring or working down the pet food factory.

She's a touchy one, the Wanganui issue.
So, cant help wondering why Otaki hasn't got an H?
How bout it, Hotaki?

[ManDownUnder]

She's a touchy one, the Wanganui issue.
So, cant help wondering why Otaki hasn't got an H?
How bout it, Hotaki?
Stohp behing sillhy

[Skyryder]

What happened to the complaint to the Children's commissioner? Don't tell me... the letter from Michael Laws [gasp] wasn't ... abuse?


Prose?????? What the fuck planet are you on? We're not talking Chaucer or Keats. Ooooo I see - you didn't understand "Elegant". Your well thought out response totally belies that (that was sarcasm by the way - another example in case the first one went roaring overhead as most of my comments seem to)



No apostrophe needed in his name - takes the punch of the argument because it make's you look silly




Dude - get it together.

I've cut out most of your comments and have no wish to go over old ground as this seems pointless as well as boring.

However you have raised an issue with my grammer so will comment on this.


As for my apostrophe usage in sir names. Here’s a link on its usage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe

It is perfectly acceptable to use the apostrophe in the manner that I have used it.

But yours.

Children's commissioner?


The apostrophe is in the wrong place. If you are talking about the plural use one or place it after the s. The Commissioner is for many (plural) children not just one. You may have been able to get away with this if you had used a capitol for commissioner i.e Children’s Commissioner but you did not and as such the apostrophe is wrong. As you are being pedantic on this I can too.



But wait there is more.


Here’s some from your previous post to me on spelling no less.

Sure do - it's a fairly basic concept and with the stirling example you gave... hell... what's not to understand? Thank God I'm above all that, looking down on the hypomasses




from the Concise Oxford Dictionary

sterling not stirling

hypo masses not hypomasses as you have written. It is two words and should be written as such

And now your current boo boo.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=63547&dict=CALD
prose Show phonetics
noun
written language in its ordinary form rather than poetry:
I've always preferred reading prose to poetry. This was the way that I have used it. It is ordinary language usage. Not poetry of Keats and Chaucer as you [U]erroneously believe.

Now who looks silly.


Skyryder

[Headbanger]

Woohooo,,,,,apostrophe fight.

Bikers, We bad.

[zahria]

Woohooo,,,,,apostrophe fight.

Bikers, We bad.

Its ok, It only gets serious when the exclamation (!) marks come out.

[ManDownUnder]

Now who looks silly.


Skyryder

You do man - you're living in cloud cookoo land.
Children's Commissioner is correct (I didn't capilise the "C" - quite right, but the apostrophe is correct... sorry - that's one to me)
Laws' is correct (oopsie... two to me)

oh and "sir name" is surname" (shit... three to me... bugger - and you thought you were doing so well)

Bravo that man. Bravo indeed.

Anyway - enough of the really important stuff... Care to get back to the issues of abuse, Maori Crime Rates, Unemployment, Gang lands wars, Citizen safety in W(h)anganui, Otaki kids being used as political pawns, the fact I called you Noddy and that you were talking out of your arse?

Or don't they really matter?

Besides... you were going to take this most heinous child abuse case to the offic of the Children's Comissioner weren't you? Or is there really no substance. Don't make me resort to the gastrointestinal tract gag again - although having explained it you might actually pick up on the insult this time around

[Headbanger]

I mock what I don't understand......

[Skyryder]

You do man - you're living in cloud cookoo land.
Children's Commissioner is correct (I didn't capilise the "C" - quite right, but the apostrophe is correct... sorry - that's one to me)
Laws' is correct (oopsie... two to me)

oh and "sir name" is surname" (shit... three to me... bugger - and you thought you were doing so well)

Bravo that man. Bravo indeed.

Anyway - enough of the really important stuff... Care to get back to the issues of abuse, Maori Crime Rates, Unemployment, Gang lands wars, Citizen safety in W(h)anganui, Otaki kids being used as political pawns, the fact I called you Noddy and that you were talking out of your arse?

Or don't they really matter?

Besides... you were going to take this most heinous child abuse case to the offic of the Children's Comissioner weren't you? Or is there really no substance. Don't make me resort to the gastrointestinal tract gag again - although having explained it you might actually pick up on the insult this time around

At least I know the correct meaning of words. This post is banal, trite etc.


The ravings of a loser who has not realised that he has lost and is so confused that he thinks the start line is the finish line.



Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

At least I know the correct meaning of words. This post is banal, trite etc.

Skyryder

So remind me... what was your sir name [sic] again?

No Noddy... you blew that arguent too

[SS90]

What is it they say about ignorance? It's no excuse? Sounds right.

The city was founded by Europeans. And named by them. It is Wanganui - and has been since Day One.
The river and National Park adjacent are Whanganui.
The district is Wanganui.
The mixture of usage, H or no, could be confusing, or actually help identify what is being referred to when people write about the place. The H was added to the river some time ago, in deference to the local tribe/s. That should be enough, since the settlement of Maori there at the time Europeans arrived was not called Whanganui. If it was called anything, was it not Motu (as the gardens of infamy reflect)?

Most people I know (me included) think the place is a shithole, the arsehole of the central North Island. The only good thing about the place is they still allow street racing...

You make a point, but we have to all remember that New Zealand was created as a colony, and, since our ancestors couldn't beat the Maori in war (a little like Vietnam), they entered into an agreement (Treaty thingy) that was supposed to "trick" "the savages" (no offence intended to Maori people with that) and simply take over the country with bullshit.

However, the Maori people weren't "as dumb as the English thought", what the hell respect did Maori people have for a couple of squiggles on paper? The whole concept of swapping (someone else's) land for paper was a concept though up by the white man.

It's common knowledge that many of the "signees'" of the treaty had NO RIGHT to sign away the land, they didn't care for any "treaty", and essentially their view (and I am told it is still the same today) was hey, sure give us you gun's, beads,Tobacco and blankets, we will sign on the paper.

What did it mean in reality?

Nothing.

Maori see themselves as "guardians" of the land of New Zealand, not "owners".

However......

In MODERN New Zealand, it's different.

Money is king of everything. Sad, but true.

So, in the great New Zealand land grab that is, from what I see/read, too many Maori (hey, no way am I saying ALL) simply manipulate and abuse the treaty to line their pockets.

This is basic human nature.

(I hope no-one is offended by this comparison, because it's not meant to offend)

Look at (was) the I.R.A, there was a time that every member was a loyal (separatist) Irishman (or Woman), but, as the years drew on, it simply became an organised crime unit, hiding under the name of a "political organisation" smuggling guns and drugs.

What started out as a genuine cause was slowly manipulated into a self serving slush fund.

Now, I am not saying that Maoridom have anything in common with the I.R.A, but the same thing appears to be happening with treaty claims etc.

We have poverty striken, uneducated,drug addicted young Maori, DESPERATELY needing help, and a government informing us all that "there simply isn't the budget to upgrade our services".

Hang on.

We have a VERY large amount of money EACH YEAR going into Maoridom, (to attone for previous injustices)

I see CEO's (OF LOCAL EWI) driving flash cars, wearing $500 undies (etc) and Tribes sending out stock reports to the members of the tribe.

Great!

How about spending some of that money on your tribe?

I know of not one Maori person who can tell me a story of how their tribe paid for their kids school books, or school fee's, or what ever. (I am sure this does happen, but I have personally never heard of it)

My belief is that is what the money is for!

But no, it gets "invested" by certain "elders" and (lucky for them) they then become "CEO'S" of a wealthy company.

So, we have tribes with literally MILLIONS in CLEARED FUNDS, while they seem to be happy to sit by and let their own people destroy their lives.

So really, the ones who actually need the money (by money, I should say resources, because that, in reality is what money is nowadays.... resources) don't seem to get a thing.

That is ridiculous!

BUT, what makes the news?

Clearly manipulated kids writing a letter (I am sure I could write better than that when I was 11) to a Mayor of a town they don't live in, about trivial shit. (really)

Michael Laws, while some would argue that his wording was ill chosen, is simply saying what many of us feel.

There is plenty of money in Maoridom to create programmes that will benefit the people who actually need it, and the best way to educate these kids is get them to write letters to the CEO's of United Fisheries, asking them to fund the name change.

I don't think anyone would complain if Maoridom footed the bill for the name change.

Kids writing to a Politician telling him they are "angry" with him for the spelling of a town they don't live in......WTF?

The truth is, we never really will know what the "day to day" life of Michael Laws is. We can only go on what is reported in the news, but I am certain that he is dismayed at the level of problems he is having with local "at risk" Maori.

The gang patch thing, to me, seems an action designed to weaken local gangs strength (and therefore attractiveness) to young "at risk Maori".

So, by attempting to address the gang "issue", the way I see it is that Michael Laws is trying to find a new way to help his constituants, rather than following the same methods others use (which clearly don't work, the gangs are bigger and stronger than ever)

So, if you have this in mind (pretending you are Michael Laws) and this rubbish turned up on your desk, you (possibly) would have a similar reaction.

I believe that Michael Laws doesn't need the job, he did 2 terms in Parliament, works on radio, is (clearly) independently wealthy, so there is every chance he does really care about the greater good of his community.

Like him, or not!:sweatdrop

[MSTRS]

Great post, SS90. I'm sure that Skyryder will be along shortly to argue with you.

You are right about how the reasons for things being done at one time, change over time. The British just wanted to colonise these islands. Easiest way to do that was to create a 'treaty' with those that were here before them. A sort of "Let's both live here, side by side, and not interfere with each other". Right...like that was ever going to work. The world (western society, anyway) has moved on - but not the Treatyists. Not because they believe in it's aims, but because it's a gravy train.
These kids in Otaki are simply the next generation of recruits to keep that gravytrain a'rolling. The Treaty industry in all it's forms needs to stop. Or be stopped. Laws has simply drawn his line in the sand....others will follow (I hope).

[Pixie]

I'm going to start spelling it Phanganui.

Then I'm going to spell it: Fungarnooey

[Skyryder]

You make a point, but we have to all remember that New Zealand was created as a colony, and, since our ancestors couldn't beat the Maori in war (a little like Vietnam), they entered into an agreement (Treaty thingy) that was supposed to "trick" "the savages" (no offence intended to Maori people with that) and simply take over the country with bullshit.

However, the Maori people weren't "as dumb as the English thought", what the hell respect did Maori people have for a couple of squiggles on paper? The whole concept of swapping (someone else's) land for paper was a concept though up by the white man.

It's common knowledge that many of the "signees'" of the treaty had NO RIGHT to sign away the land, they didn't care for any "treaty", and essentially their view (and I am told it is still the same today) was hey, sure give us you gun's, beads,Tobacco and blankets, we will sign on the paper.

What did it mean in reality?

Nothing.

Maori see themselves as "guardians" of the land of New Zealand, not "owners".

However......

In MODERN New Zealand, it's different.

Money is king of everything. Sad, but true.

So, in the great New Zealand land grab that is, from what I see/read, too many Maori (hey, no way am I saying ALL) simply manipulate and abuse the treaty to line their pockets.

This is basic human nature.

(I hope no-one is offended by this comparison, because it's not meant to offend)

Look at (was) the I.R.A, there was a time that every member was a loyal (separatist) Irishman (or Woman), but, as the years drew on, it simply became an organised crime unit, hiding under the name of a "political organisation" smuggling guns and drugs.

What started out as a genuine cause was slowly manipulated into a self serving slush fund.

Now, I am not saying that Maoridom have anything in common with the I.R.A, but the same thing appears to be happening with treaty claims etc.

We have poverty striken, uneducated,drug addicted young Maori, DESPERATELY needing help, and a government informing us all that "there simply isn't the budget to upgrade our services".

Hang on.

We have a VERY large amount of money EACH YEAR going into Maoridom, (to attone for previous injustices)

I see CEO's (OF LOCAL EWI) driving flash cars, wearing $500 undies (etc) and Tribes sending out stock reports to the members of the tribe.

Great!

How about spending some of that money on your tribe?

I know of not one Maori person who can tell me a story of how their tribe paid for their kids school books, or school fee's, or what ever. (I am sure this does happen, but I have personally never heard of it)

My belief is that is what the money is for!

But no, it gets "invested" by certain "elders" and (lucky for them) they then become "CEO'S" of a wealthy company.

So, we have tribes with literally MILLIONS in CLEARED FUNDS, while they seem to be happy to sit by and let their own people destroy their lives.

So really, the ones who actually need the money (by money, I should say resources, because that, in reality is what money is nowadays.... resources) don't seem to get a thing.

That is ridiculous!

BUT, what makes the news?

Clearly manipulated kids writing a letter (I am sure I could write better than that when I was 11) to a Mayor of a town they don't live in, about trivial shit. (really)

Michael Laws, while some would argue that his wording was ill chosen, is simply saying what many of us feel.

There is plenty of money in Maoridom to create programmes that will benefit the people who actually need it, and the best way to educate these kids is get them to write letters to the CEO's of United Fisheries, asking them to fund the name change.

I don't think anyone would complain if Maoridom footed the bill for the name change.

Kids writing to a Politician telling him they are "angry" with him for the spelling of a town they don't live in......WTF?

The truth is, we never really will know what the "day to day" life of Michael Laws is. We can only go on what is reported in the news, but I am certain that he is dismayed at the level of problems he is having with local "at risk" Maori.

The gang patch thing, to me, seems an action designed to weaken local gangs strength (and therefore attractiveness) to young "at risk Maori".

So, by attempting to address the gang "issue", the way I see it is that Michael Laws is trying to find a new way to help his constituants, rather than following the same methods others use (which clearly don't work, the gangs are bigger and stronger than ever)

So, if you have this in mind (pretending you are Michael Laws) and this rubbish turned up on your desk, you (possibly) would have a similar reaction.

I believe that Michael Laws doesn't need the job, he did 2 terms in Parliament, works on radio, is (clearly) independently wealthy, so there is every chance he does really care about the greater good of his community.

Like him, or not!:sweatdrop

At last the voice of common sense.

I agree with your comments on Laws. I believe that he does have genuine desire for a better community. Laws is both articulate and has a high degree of common sense and as such there is no need for him to behave in the manner that he does. In doing so he reduces his full potential as a public figure and that is the tragedy of Laws.

Skyryder

[MSTRS]

Great post, SS90. I'm sure that Skyryder will be along shortly to argue with you.




At last the voice of common sense.

I agree with your comments on Laws.

Holy shit!!!

[ManDownUnder]

Thanks for the green bling SR - unfortunately rules say I can repeat what you said to me in here without your ok... but did it strike you that you're still off topic?

Do I take that as proof that the easiest way to win a fight is to join the winning team?

[Pixie]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!

LOL they're spelled the traditional Maori way!. Y'know... as the ancients did.

On a cave wall in their own faeces

[Headbanger]

I don't think anyone would complain if Maoridom footed the bill for the name change.


Great post, apart from this bit, The good people in Wanganui aren't interested in having the name debate, It was pushed on us by shit stirrers from elsewhere, we are happy with the name of our town and fucked off that the bullshit ever started.

Maoridom could pay the bill and they would still be told to fuck right off.

Our town, Our name.

[SS90]

At last the voice of common sense.

I agree with your comments on Laws. I believe that he does have genuine desire for a better community. Laws is both articulate and has a high degree of common sense and as such there is no need for him to behave in the manner that he does. In doing so he reduces his full potential as a public figure and that is the tragedy of Laws.

Skyryder

That's a really good point!

Being a "professional" (by most accounts) seems to require a complete separation from ones emotions particularly when dealing with questions of race.

For example a Judge.

I do agree that the way Mr Laws wrote that letter could be seen by some to be unprofessional, but I believe that to be the Mayor of a small(ish) New Zealand town requires a certain set of personal attributes than someone as "unique" as Michael Laws has.

To be honest, I could never be the Mayor of a town that has gang problems, the fear I would have of dissapointing my community (by failing to remove gang intimidation/drugs) would over whelm me.

I am pretty sure that most Kiwi's (if they are honest to themselves) feel the same.

Tim Shadbolt and his concrete mixer.

Mayor of Invercargill.

His style works for his Community. Good on him.

Michael Laws community needs something different, and different is what they got!

Yes, I see Mr Laws as having a big ego, but as his community stands to benefit from his ego, I simply overlook that!

I knew a really good young motorcycle racer with ADD, travelled with him a few times, and yea, he was hard work (sometimes), but his ADD seemed to give him "the edge", so we all just over looked it!

Maybe the same could be said for Mr Laws!:lol:

[short-circuit]

Our town, Our name.

This right here is a very interesting idea.