Clarifying F3 rules for watercooled twins

[Benk]

Hi Guys, just had a look at the rules, and saw that 4.3 (b) doesnt allow twins over 640cc to be watercooled - 4.3 (b) or am I missing something major? http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/Append...mula_Three.pdf .

I know its under the 2 valve per cylinder paragraph, but why wouldnt these be allowed to be watercooled, and the models with over 2 vpc not? Am I being thick as shit, or does this not make sense to somebody else too? :whistle:

Cheers

[FROSTY]

what file was that dude??
I supect its a typo 650cc twins not 640

[Benk]

what file was that dude??
I supect its a typo 650cc twins not 640

From this page http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx , here the current rules http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Appendix_B_Formula_Three_Championship_Regulations. pdf , heres the proposed rules http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/Appendix_B_Formula_Three.pdf

Both say the same thing? Meebe SVs have to run with empty radiators :rockon:

[svs]

4.3b is restricted to 2 valves per cylinder (e.g Ducati SS) which allows up to 750cc, with the restriction that over 640cc must not be water cooled.
(this specifically excluded things like a 748 which is a multi valve, watercooled twin under 750cc)

4.3c deal with SV650 and the like. i.e more than 3 valves per cylinder. Limited to 650cc with additional restrictions as detailed.
Don't see how that's so hard?

[Benk]

Don't see how that's so hard?

Yeah, I got that, just seems strange to me that a 650 2 valve watercooled bike isnt allowed, and a 650 4 valve watercooled bike is?

Probably just a moot point, but I just wondered why nothing about the cooling type was mentioned for 3 or more vpc.

[SPman]

Someone hasn't thought it through......?

[GSVR]

Yeah, I got that, just seems strange to me that a 650 2 valve watercooled bike isnt allowed, and a 650 4 valve watercooled bike is?

Probably just a moot point, but I just wondered why nothing about the cooling type was mentioned for 3 or more vpc.

Is that the only strange thing in the F3 rules you can find. The whole thing is filled with contradictions and gray areas.

Half the battle in being competitive in F3 is finding the loopholes and rules that allow one to build a bike with an advantage over other competitors. Also making sure that those in the position of passing judgement on what is and isn't legal agree with you.

Then all you need is the right monkey to pilot it and your onto a winner.

I love the Ozzy 450 concept but that bike still needs a good rider to be at the pointy end!

[Ozzy27]

I love the Ozzy 450 concept but that bike still needs a good rider to be at the pointy end![/QUOTE]

Wow Gary,
I would never have thought that a bike needed a good rider to run at the front. Thanks for pointing that out!
:niceone:

[gav]

Yeah, I'd like to see the bike that doesn't require a good rider to run at the front. :whistle:

[Pumba]

Yeah, I'd like to see the bike that doesn't require a good rider to run at the front. :whistle:

I would pay very good money for that bike:whistle:

[Kevin G]

Is that the only strange thing in the F3 rules you can find. The whole thing is filled with contradictions and gray areas.

Half the battle in being competitive in F3 is finding the loopholes and rules that allow one to build a bike with an advantage over other competitors. Also making sure that those in the position of passing judgement on what is and isn't legal agree with you.

Then all you need is the right monkey to pilot it and your onto a winner.

I love the Ozzy 450 concept but that bike still needs a good rider to be at the pointy end!

Hi.
Instead of sitting at your keyboard and picking holes in the rules do something constructive and rewrite them and then put them forward for discussion.
Be part of the solution rather than throwing stones from the sidelines, its far more rewarding.

Kevin Goddard

[CookMySock]

Instead of sitting at your keyboard and picking holes in the rules do something constructive and rewrite them and then put them forward for discussion.
Be part of the solution rather than throwing stones from the sidelines, its far more rewarding.No one respects that process, because usually submissions from mere mortals get flushed straight straight down the toilet. People don't speak up when they believe they will be ignored.

If your organisation wants respect, it should hand the rules over to its members with some formal process, and leave them to write their own rules. Why not begin that process with a publicly editable document in a wiki somewhere, and when its nice and concrete then transition the document into place as the revised set of rules. Such a thing will cost you nothing and gain respect, and propel your organisation forward.

Steve

[CookMySock]

Half the battle in being competitive in F3 is finding the loopholes and rules that allow one to build a bike with an advantage over other competitors. Also making sure that those in the position of passing judgement on what is and isn't legal agree with you.Well is that a valid part of racing or not? It seems that a large part of the entertainment value comes from that, and it also pushes people to think innovatively.

Steve

[GSVR]

Hi.
Instead of sitting at your keyboard and picking holes in the rules do something constructive and rewrite them and then put them forward for discussion.
Be part of the solution rather than throwing stones from the sidelines, its far more rewarding.

Kevin Goddard

All been done before sorry! This is and old Kiwibiker pastime and I have emailed MNZ on occasion with very little satisfaction.

Infact I could bring up the most contentious issue of last season in this class as MNZ has made very little in the way of a statement or clarifation and modified the rule only slightly.

I wont bother asking for clarification on here like other posts are doing (and I have done in the past). Email MNZ for rule clarifications.

[GSVR]

Well is that a valid part of racing or not? It seems that a large part of the entertainment value comes from that, and it also pushes people to think innovatively.

Steve

Its part of the challenge. The more competitive and professional the racing becomes the more significant a part it plays.

[codgyoleracer]

Its part of the challenge. The more competitive and professional the racing becomes the more significant a part it plays.

Its easy really:
1) The persons at the front of the pack usually follow one option, they tend "interpret & apply the rules so as to keep them at the pointy end"

2) The persons that want to catch up & be at the pointy end have more choices - A) Interpret the rules to either allow them to get to the pointy end, or B) Use the rulebook against the persons at the pointy end to improve their own postion.

Easy really & all choices are fully understandable, - It is a competitve sport after all aye ?, & one of the good things about the F3 class is that there are NOT MANY RULES ! :niceone:

Glen Willaims

[oyster]

I think some people need to realise how MNZ works. Clearly a few here don't. MNZ is not Kev's, it's the MEMBERS who have ownership of it. (Check the constitution if you doubt this) And they have the responsibility to vote in who they feel fit for leadership and representation.
Having worked with the MNZ commissioners and board for the last few years it's sad to hear the same story they frequently tell. That they find it very hard to get the riders to come forward with constructive review and contributions to proposed rule changes. Yes, I agree a better media forum would help, but really, how much do you need? MNZ regularly has workshops you can attend, the site is "live" (ish) for comment your club can make submissions via remit and other media.
If the critics here on this forum have been active through these processes I'd be surprised if they're unhappy. If they're really motivated, then get elected next election.

[GSVR]

Its easy really:
1) The persons at the front of the pack usually follow one option, they tend "interpret & apply the rules so as to keep them at the pointy end"

2) The persons that want to catch up & be at the pointy end have more choices - A) Interpret the rules to either allow them to get to the pointy end, or B) Use the rulebook against the persons at the pointy end to improve their own postion.

Easy really & all choices are fully understandable, - It is a competitve sport after all aye ?, & one of the good things about the F3 class is that there are NOT MANY RULES ! :niceone:

Glen Willaims

And here was me thinking you might post something on the snorkel matter!

Will it be ok to run an SV650 without the snokel fitted to the airbox at the next nationals? Whats the deal with throttle bodies?

I'd like to know so I can seem informed if anyone asks!

[codgyoleracer]

Looks like we will be snorkiling this year !, New rule is a bit clearer for the 650 4 valve twins now, but IMO it could be clearer again.

Dont know about the throttle bodies/injector part of the rule, however with no airbox mods i dont see the point in playing with it myself as flow cant be increased anyway ?.

Maybe this is the last year for the commuter bikes dominance !, (about time too ! ) :-)

Got any ideas on how we can make the bike quicker Gary ?

Glen

[eelracing]

I'd like to know so I can seem informed if anyone asks!

Haha shit no bro...ignorance = bliss.

Snorkels?Throttle bodies??Sounds like bling to me.God knows SV's are as ugly as sin as is.

[Billy]

[QUOTE=codgyoleracer;1129394569 however with no airbox mods i dont see the point in playing with it myself as flow cant be increased anyway ?.


Glen[/QUOTE]ERR,Are we still talking motorcycles here???

[Billy]

Got any ideas on how we can make the bike quicker Gary ?

Glen

Um,Give it too Sketchy to ride ???

[codgyoleracer]

ERR,Are we still talking motorcycles here???

Dont you know you should play with your snorkle on a regular basis,.....but then again i forgot you are nearing retirement from such things ? :-)

P.S - get back to work & get me my fairings.........

Glen

[Cleve]

Dont you know you should play with your snorkle on a regular basis,.....but then again i forgot you are nearing retirement from such things ? :-)

P.S - get back to work & get me my fairings.........

Glen

apparently regular snorkel playing helps mitigate the incidence of testicular cancer

[quickbuck]

Um,Give it too Sketchy to ride ???

That might do it... apparently you need a good rider on a bike to get it to the pointy end of the field....
;)

[GSVR]

That might do it... apparently you need a good rider on a bike to get it to the pointy end of the field....
;)

Na in NZ you only have to be average which is good for NZ standards.

[neil_cb125t]

Its easy really:

Easy really & all choices are fully understandable, - It is a competitve sport after all aye ?, & one of the good things about the F3 class is that there are NOT MANY RULES ! :niceone:

Glen Willaims


YOU DAMN Right - bring back formula racing - who wants to see a road legal bike with no lights on it, when you can see monster SVs racing against Flame spitting ZXR444RRRRRRR's dicing with ugly sounding 450 triples.

[roadracingoldfart]

YOU DAMN Right - bring back formula racing - who wants to see a road legal bike with no lights on it, when you can see monster SVs racing against Flame spitting ZXR444RRRRRRR's dicing with ugly sounding 450 triples.


Im gonna shutup here :whistle: , ozzy already called me a nasty name .i prefer "Flat ugly sounding 450 triples"

F= Formula and a formula is a recipe made to the ingrediants available , when a bike thats really old can do times like a newer , cutting edge bike its a damm good recipe so dont let anybody fuck it all up to make it biased to a specific configaration, my 2 cents.