New RD?

[naphazoline]

I just got an email from a mate saying that Yamaha might make a new RD.
Check out this pic of a possible new RD350 for 2010.:woohoo:
I sure would like to give it a thrash:drool:


PS,
Sorry if this has already been posted,but it's worth another look anyway.:)

[pzkpfw]

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/283/yamaha-rd-350-and-yamaha-tdr-350-the-return-of-two-stroke-motors

You couldn't upload your pic as an attachment/thumbnail, could you?

[naphazoline]

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/283/yamaha-rd-350-and-yamaha-tdr-350-the-return-of-two-stroke-motors

You couldn't upload your pic as an attachment/thumbnail, could you?


No...Sorry.

I'm fuckin useless with computers,and i thought i was doing just that.:Oops:

[dogsnbikes]

the pic size is perfect save's waiting for dialup to down load it

would be fun for running circles around the Kwaka community in Ashhurst:whistle:

[marty]

that's pretty fucking cool actually.

wnder if i could do somethg like that to an RS250? like a mini Tuono?

[naphazoline]

that's pretty fucking cool actually.

wnder if i could do somethg like that to an RS250? like a mini Tuono?

You mean a honda RS? Or an Aprillia?

Can't see why not.I really like that style.
But i was thinking....with the way the old RD's used to accelerate,wouldn't wind be a factor with no screen?:cold:

[martybabe]

That is a nice looking tool, at the right dollars I'd buy one for the track. Loved the old RDs. :niceone:

Here's your thumbnail mate.

[RDjase]

You mean a honda RS? Or an Aprillia?

Can't see why not.I really like that style.
But i was thinking....with the way the old RD's used to accelerate,wouldn't wind be a factor with no screen?:cold:


A screen, nah, dont need one of them , my helmets got a visor ;) Two stroke road bikes rock. I have got 4 LCs and a TZR , and used to have a TDR . The TDR would do 175kmh, not bad for a 250 dirt(ish) bike and it didnt have any fairings, it was suposed to have a bikini fairing but it was missing when i got it.

Imagine a full feild or new RDs doing Pro/Am racing (youtube has great video) racing like in the early 80s . be bloody awesome:woohoo:

[marty]

You mean a honda RS? Or an Aprillia?

Can't see why not.I really like that style.
But i was thinking....with the way the old RD's used to accelerate,wouldn't wind be a factor with no screen?:cold:

aprilia.

and if it's ok for a street triple or a gsx1400 to not have a screen, i'm sure you could cope on a 2 or 350

[DVS 69]

That looks awesome id love one for round town fun ;)

[Latte]

Sign me up !

[naphazoline]

A screen, nah, dont need one of them , my helmets got a visor ;) ......


......and if it's ok for a street triple or a gsx1400 to not have a screen, i'm sure you could cope on a 2 or 350

I'm a fat cunt,so it would be like a brick wall riding through the air.:laugh:

[NZsarge]

If it were a 750 triple with about 160hp at the wheel and weighed under 200kg fully wet it'd be super interesting..

[Dooly]

Thats pretty fuckin neat looking.

[HenryDorsetCase]

No shit, I would put a deposit down today on one of those.

I think its pretty unlikely though, with Euro 3, noise restrictions and whatnot. And that has carbs it looks like, and my understanding is that the only two stroke with a hope of meeting Euro 3 was direct injection (like the TSS ones)

[Spyke]

Dear god,
can you summon your powers to help our friendly japanese friends build it just for me.

Ps do you know santa cause it'l be alot betterer getting one from him?

Amen

[naphazoline]

.......I think its pretty unlikely though, with Euro 3, noise restrictions and whatnot. And that has carbs it looks like, and my understanding is that the only two stroke with a hope of meeting Euro 3 was direct injection (like the TSS ones)

Ooooohhh.....I hate those emissions restrictions.:angry2:

Half way through eliminating that shit on my bike.

I wish they wouldn't bother.Is it really saving the earth??:oi-grr:

[Sidewinder]

fark yes i want one

[Grahameeboy]

You mean a honda RS? Or an Aprillia?

Can't see why not.I really like that style.
But i was thinking....with the way the old RD's used to accelerate,wouldn't wind be a factor with no screen?:cold:
I had a 350YPVS with the bikini fairing which was pretty effective and I suspect the screen on this one will do a pretty good job

I want one...

[Katman]

I should have known they'd package it in something ugly.

[Jizah]

I should have known they'd package it in something ugly.

Enough about you, this thread is about the prospective new RD.

The fender is different.

[AllanB]

It looks cool....but.... there are a few issues with that 'sketch' aforementioned carbs - they would not happen, and the pipes look way too short for any type of low end power on a bluey.

Priced right I think it would be a winner. ;)

[dangerous]

Well.... ahhhhhhh hell I like it. Yeah a bit GP'ish but hey so be it.
I heard the 'stroker' was going to make a come back, with todays tecknolagy etc emisions are next to nill... and well bugger it this one looks just like mine :whistle:

Now check this link out http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2007/03/saga-of-hrc-honda-nsr500.html scroll down to the vidio clip and watch... you tell me that that aint more exciting than the wanky GP bikes to day with ther computer controled crap attached, YEAHHHHHH... a real engine controled by man.

[Big Zappa]

Never happening. Sorry.

Would buy one in a hearbeat though.

[GMcC]

Thats the way bikes should be.............mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Or at least as a part of a collection that you can ride !

[2much]

aprilia.

and if it's ok for a street triple or a gsx1400 to not have a screen, i'm sure you could cope on a 2 or 350

It was pretty obvious when you consider the honda isn't road legal.

But interesting concept, would love to try one, tho don't think I could do that to an RS myself.


No shit, I would put a deposit down today on one of those.

I think its pretty unlikely though, with Euro 3, noise restrictions and whatnot. And that has carbs it looks like, and my understanding is that the only two stroke with a hope of meeting Euro 3 was direct injection (like the TSS ones)

Since when did TSS do DI? last I saw they were using Keihin carbs?

[Pixie]

No shit, I would put a deposit down today on one of those.

I think its pretty unlikely though, with Euro 3, noise restrictions and whatnot. And that has carbs it looks like, and my understanding is that the only two stroke with a hope of meeting Euro 3 was direct injection (like the TSS ones)


Never happening. Sorry.

Would buy one in a hearbeat though.

You may be wrong - Evinrude has dropped all 4 stroke development in favour of 2 strokes

Plus:
KTM has announced record 2008 sales of 25,000 two-stroke bikes and says it sees no end to the high-performance two-stroke. Australian firm Orbital is testing a 200bhp, fully emissions-compliant 1000cc twin that’s lighter and more fuel efficient than any rival four-stroke. Aprilia craves an accessible performance middleweight, says it could easily render its seminal RS250 Euro-3 compliant and has twice already come close to releasing such a bike. R&D departments in Europe, Asia and North America are arriving at the same conclusion: everything you know about two-strokes is wrong, and their revenge against the four-stroke is imminent.
“The complexity of a high-performance four-stroke engine is frightening” says Steven Ahern of Australian engineering R&D firm Orbital, owner of key direct injection patents. “To get power out of a four-stroke you’ve got to go for high rpm, very fancy materials, and you’ve got to sacrifice the torque at low and mid rpm. The customer is the one who has to foot the bill and it’s becoming prohibitive – and they’re getting engines the same vices two strokes used to be damned with.”
Orbital believes the two-stroke is the only engine which gives manufacturers the performance headroom customers will demand – and experts agree that none of the traditional two-stroke vices need apply. It’s only a matter of time before the truth shows through the four-stroke greenwash, says Denver Lawson, who as R&D consultant to China’s vast Jialing Motorcycle Company is designing a wave of new direct-injection two-stroke motors: “What the world wants is efficiency. And whether it’s efficiency or performance you want the fact a four-stroke wastes two strokes is a big issue. It’s not going to be a case of riders having to be convinced about two-strokes again, the world’s going to demand those wasted strokes back.”
Emissions laws dealt a mortal blow to the performance two-stroke in the seventies and eighties, but it’s something other than technical realities that have kept the lid on the coffin, according to Dave Blundell of Lotus Engineering: “Any two-stroke can be made clean enough to pass current emissions standards thanks to Orbital’s air-assisted injection. But manufacturers have invested unimagined billions in four-stroke and they’re very happy for people’s prejudices about ‘dirty, peaky’ two-strokes to remain.”
Orbital’s air-assisted direct injection technology (ADI) separates oil and fuel, keeping oil out of the combustion process and surrounding the fuel vapour in a plume of air which allows clean combustion in the short time the two-stroke cycle allows. The injection of the charge happens after the exhaust port is closed, so none is lost, and because the air injection is so effective at atomising the fuel, injector pressure can be lower – meaning the injector themselves can be cheap; far cheaper than the diesel injectors in your car which run at up to ten times the pressure. Orbital’s computer-controlled ADI cuts oil consumption by 80% and fills out the two-stroke’s torque curve to four-stroke-beating levels. It also dramatically reins in fuel consumption, as Mike Ambler - project leader in Aprilia’s engine department when the firm secretly tested ADI on its RS250 - remembers: “The ADI-equipped RS was so efficient that it could run on the tailpipe emissions of the regular RS250 at idle”.

Dyno comparision - 450 two stroke vs. 450 four stroke.

Tomorrow’s two-strokes on the dyno
Future two-strokes will have capacities on a par with four-strokes, allowing a milder state of tune than that which earned them their peaky reputation. The result trounces the four-stroke for power, torque, flexibility and even service intervals says Orbital – whose experimental (and under-developed) 450cc single-cylinder two-stroke produced these curves against a rival 450cc four-stroke. The stroker also proved smaller and lighter, cheaper to build, less thirsty and with identical emissions.
Orbital earns royalties on every ADI-equipped engine produced, and spent the nineties and early 2000s focusing on mass-market small-capacity utility machines and courting automotive firms. But it’s since entered into partnerships with high-performance bike manufacturers it says will bear fruit soon. Big fruit: “We’re testing a 1000cc engine with performance up to 200bhp and 118lb-ft per litre with performance anywhere and completely emissions compliant” says Ahern.
Who those partners are Orbital won’t say, though an ADI-equipped EXC300 from KTM is strongly rumoured. But what it will say is telling: “Everyone, except Honda, is harbouring significant two-stroke thoughts” says Ahern.
That’s no wonder, says Harald Bartol, two-stroke engineering luminary and technical director of KTM’s grand prix activities: “When I look at two strokes I see only advantages – the power, the weight, the cost and complexity. And the riding dynamics of two-stroke 250s are very close to the 800cc MotoGP bikes. If I were making a sportsbike for the road I would choose a 500cc V4 two-stroke. I have absolutely no doubt it would be superior to the current superbikes, and be possible with existing legislation.”
It may even happen, as Bartol becomes more and more disenchanted with racing’s four-stroke pogrom: “The technical reasons for the change is nonsense. They are all excuses for a business plan which is coming from Honda.”
It’s a disenchantment that’s echoed outside of racing. Dave Blundell of Lotus: “There are lots of very pro-two-stroke engineers at Honda, and they’ve done incredible work in the field, but within the firm it’s become regarded as disloyal to support two-strokes. Their influence is so massive it’s distorted the truth about the engineering.” The truth which even Honda knows says Aprilia’s Mike Ambler: “That two-strokes can be at least as clean, and more fuel efficient thank a four-stroke – their own benchmark tests with ADI-equipped two-strokes against their best four-strokes proved it.” Orbital’s Ahern: “10 years ago from an emissions point of view two-stroke and four-stroke engines were chalk and cheese. Honda’s marketing department went into overdrive and stayed there.”
With oil and fuel separated, injection computer-mapped and the mixture air-blast assisted, the new breed of two-strokes won’t recognise their smoking, spluttering, peaky forbears. They may not resemble them in capacity either. Orbital now believes two-strokes of comparable capacities to four-strokes, running at a less frenetic pace, offer the best combination of explosive two-stroke power, and flat ’n’ fat four-stroke torque curve.
The combination certainly proved mouthwatering for Aprilia. Mike Ambler: “In 2005-6 we looked long and hard at a 600cc two-stroke in an RS250 chassis. The prototype was slated to have 110-125bhp at 8-9000rpm, and weigh 145kg. That would have been a hot-rod, but in the end it was decided we’d have more chance of marketing a Mana than an RS600DI.” When asked if a clean middleweight two-stroke would bridge the yawning gap in Aprilia’s sportsbike range, product manager Francesco Polimeni replies: “I completely agree. And things seem to be changing in the past 12 months, customers warming up to this type of bike. We are keeping our eyes open so as to pounce on any opportunity that becomes available.”
In the dyno rooms and laboratories of the world’s most advanced centres of R&D – including Britain’s Lotus and Ricardo – the boundaries of economy, performance and flexibility are being pushed with two-stroke technologies. Riders craving their explosive performance are feeding a burgeoning subculture of limited-run old-school strokers. So how long before they go mainstream again? As soon as riders know to demand them says Steven Ahern: “Today more than ever manufacturers are listening to what customers want, not saying ‘we’ve made this, you’ve got to buy it’. They’ve just got to know it’s okay to demand more torque, less weight and better efficiency at lower cost.”

[onearmedbandit]

Awesome read Pixie. I can only but wait and hope, as I can definitely see a two-stroke sportsbike like those mentioned in my garage if it all happens.

[dangerous]

Awesome read Pixie. I can only but wait and hope, as I can definitely see a two-stroke sportsbike like those mentioned in my garage if it all happens.

The thing is tho... people will be expecting the rush of the Kawa trip to the LC, I doubt it will be like that at all and more like the power delivery of a four stroke.
These new things will have more torque and a even power delivery kinda like the RZ did over the RD.
For this reason a few might be disapointed, hell its why I prefure the RD over the YPVS of the RZ even thos the RZ pumps a what 20hp more? the non PV strokers are way more fun.

[naphazoline]

It was pretty obvious when you consider the honda isn't road legal......

Wasn't aware of that,but don't need to be road legal to have a track dedicated bike,and that's where i reckon a bike like this would be fantastic fun.:cool:

[RDjase]

The thing is tho... people will be expecting the rush of the Kawa trip to the LC, I doubt it will be like that at all and more like the power delivery of a four stroke.
These new things will have more torque and a even power delivery kinda like the RZ did over the RD.
For this reason a few might be disapointed, hell its why I prefure the RD over the YPVS of the RZ even thos the RZ pumps a what 20hp more? the non PV strokers are way more fun.

Yep, agree with you there D, The power delivery of a LC is what fun 2strokes are all about, YPVS RZs just dont have the fun appeal. Maybe these new RDs could have the mapping switch like gixers have (had?)

C Mode, smooth power like a 4 stroke( so 4 stroke owners can get there head round them lol)

B Mode, a bit peaky like a RZ YPVS

A Mode, Nice and peaky , Just like the Mighty LC always was and why we like 2 strokes

With the technology im sure this could be done, and im sure Stan Stephens and the other UK tuners would be all over these and go fast(er) goodys would be available if they do get released (PLEASE DO IT YAMAHA):clap:

[RDjase]

Never happening. Sorry.

Would buy one in a hearbeat though.

Im sure a NEW RD would look great sitting next to your LC(and mine), 30years between them :clap: Would be hard to decide what bike to ride

Lots of grin factor :niceone:

[Big Zappa]

Just reissue the LC I say!

[Naki Rat]

I'll have one of those right after my Street Triple R. Now where is that Lotto website :rolleyes:

[hospitalfood]

this is worth a read

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-strokes-strike-back/

[LBD]

I for one...will be watching this bikes development with interest....

[TygerTung]

Nah the RZ is definatly the way to go. They definatly have a power rush, but they are just so rideable due to the broad range of power given to you with the powervalves!

[RDjase]

Nah the RZ is definatly the way to go. They definatly have a power rush, but they are just so rideable due to the broad range of power given to you with the powervalves!

RZs do go well ,its just they dont seem to give the hit of a LC, Have you seen all the big bore and stroker kits available for Banshees? Its great they kept making them till 2006 and they make lots of go fast bits

http://www.stanstephens.com/ypvs350.htm

[Latte]

I guess they manufacturers could release a compliant, efficient 2 stroke, then an aftermarket company could supply different expansion chambers, differently shaped power valves, and a power-commander type device to release the power and make it more "traditional" 2 stroke power? I'd say if the manufacturers wanted to they could even leave enough meat in the barrel for aftermarket tuners to "port" to a traditional spec.

For those that like the smelly, inefficient, noisy smokers (memememe) :rockon:

[Chrislost]

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/283/yamaha-rd-350-and-yamaha-tdr-350-the-return-of-two-stroke-motors

You couldn't upload your pic as an attachment/thumbnail, could you?

I would get one!

[eelracing]

I would get one!

What! and give up the V4...you been sniffn' to much Castrol R son.:yes:

It would be a great bike but Yamaha have done nothing to there YZ MX range for the last three/four years and it's the same for 2010 that i think it's just a pipe dream.Would love to be proved wrong tho.

It's a shame coz they are turning there backs on there own history and tradition.

[robo555]

If what that article says is true, and the bike they build looks like the pictures, the Yamaha's gonna kick ass. The bikes look amazing.

Forgive my ignorance though, what's the diff between the RD and the TDR other than looks?

[HenryDorsetCase]

If what that article says is true, and the bike they build looks like the pictures, the Yamaha's gonna kick ass. The bikes look amazing.

Forgive my ignorance though, what's the diff between the RD and the TDR other than looks?

google image search. a TDR is sort of an adventure styled bike, RD is a roadbike. TDR is taller, dirtbike bars longer travel, bigger wheels (?) but stillw ith road tyres.

There was a TDR on tardme a couple months back.

[nudemetalz]

Sort of like an XTZ750 Super Ten minaturised !!

[Ducky848]

If I were making a sportsbike for the road I would choose a 500cc V4 two-stroke. I have absolutely no doubt it would be superior to the current superbikes, and be possible with existing legislation.”


Oooooh god, yeeees. Do it man, do it!!!!!

[McWild]

Forgive my ignorance though, what's the diff between the RD and the TDR other than looks?

An RD is a 1970s 350cc 2 stroke parallel twin with classic styling and a powerband to make you go ahhhhh. It does not have powervalves in it, so is truly all or nothing.

A TDR is an 80s/90s 250cc 2 stroke twin supermotard that utilises the same engine as the TZR250 of the same era. In that stead, they operate with YPVS (powervalves) which in the end results in a smoother transition. There are something like 8 in NZ I think?
Gammaguy would know, he has one. He often brings it on the Christchurch Wednesday night rides. It is amazing.

RD350
http://www.bikez.com/pictures/yamaha/1975/9671_0_1_2_rd%20350_Image%20credits%20-%20Karthik%20N.jpg

TDR250
http://ktim.smugmug.com/photos/214436352_DVJPg-S.jpg

[RDjase]

An RD is a 1970s 350cc 2 stroke parallel twin with classic styling and a powerband to make you go ahhhhh. It does not have powervalves in it, so is truly all or nothing.

A TDR is an 80s/90s 250cc 2 stroke twin supermotard that utilises the same engine as the TZR250 of the same era. In that stead, they operate with YPVS (powervalves) which in the end results in a smoother transition. There are something like 8 in NZ I think?
Gammaguy would know, he has one. He often brings it on the Christchurch Wednesday night rides. It is amazing.

RD350
http://www.bikez.com/pictures/yamaha/1975/9671_0_1_2_rd%20350_Image%20credits%20-%20Karthik%20N.jpg

TDR250
http://ktim.smugmug.com/photos/214436352_DVJPg-S.jpg

Are TDRs that rare in NZ?

I had a black and yellow one the same as in your picture, it was a very fun bike. But i was used to my RD350LC so the power was alot smoother on the TDR, even the RGV I have is smooth compared to the old pre power valve 2 strokes. My T20 Suzuki doesnt even have reed valves, it got a light switch for a throttle :2thumbsup

OLD 2STROKES ARE MORE FUN:banana:

I still want a NEW RD tho:2thumbsup

[Damien_Toman]

A screen, nah, dont need one of them , my helmets got a visor ;) Two stroke road bikes rock. I have got 4 LCs and a TZR , and used to have a TDR . The TDR would do 175kmh, not bad for a 250 dirt(ish) bike and it didnt have any fairings, it was suposed to have a bikini fairing but it was missing when i got it.

Imagine a full feild or new RDs doing Pro/Am racing (youtube has great video) racing like in the early 80s . be bloody awesome:woohoo:

I have an old RD350YPVS from 1987 (needs a piston rebuild:crybaby:) and I used to race one in the early 80s:woohoo:. Handling for the original 1982/3 model was poor but the motor was fantastic. I'm number 56 - taken around 1983 at Brands Hatch (before the grey hair):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dty1/270114901/sizes/o/in/set-72157600023884167/
I'm just getting back into racing - bucket racing at this stage:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dty1/3939199665/sizes/l/in/set-72157622284290869/

Just bought an FXR150. A nice wee bike. I will be trying it out at the next Mt Wellington meeting. :scooter:

[dangerous]

I'm number 56 - taken around 1983 at Brands Hatch (before the grey hair)Thats magic... are all 3 bikes RD/RZ's?

I'm just getting back into racing - bucket racing at this stage:Just bought an FXR150.
Nothing wrong with bucket racing, great fun we curently race LC's and FXR's
ps: I see you had a 125T, same I shoulda a kept it