Would you ride a Hybrid?

[crash harry]

For commuting purposes particularly. Would you ride a hybrid commuter bike or scooter?
What factors would influence your decision?

I guess I'm pretty much talking to people who do or would commute on 2 wheels here, I wouldn't expect sport riders or tourers to be interested...

[James Deuce]

Ooo look, another poll that defines only to OP's prejudices.

How about: I won't ride a hybrid because they are less "green" than a decent turbo diesel.

I also know plenty of "sport riders" and "tourers" who commute.

I'm pretty sure they think of themselves as motorcyclists, not some niche fashionista.

[PirateJafa]

Sod off.

.

[Blackshear]

Ooo look, another poll that defines only to OP's prejudices.

How about: I won't ride a hybrid because they are less "green" than a decent turbo diesel.

I also know plenty of "sport riders" and "tourers" who commute.

I'm pretty sure they think of themselves as motorcyclists, not some niche fashionista.

See picture.

So long as it had peak torque somewhere before my Bandit does.

[Conquiztador]

The day when I am told that I can not ride something burning petrol I will fill her with Vodka and keep riding.

[Dare]

Electrics plenty powerful, just need straight cut gears to get some damn noise out of it! Super-capacitors are where it's at, mark my words.

[Big Dave]

I'll ride anything up to 'likely to explode'.

[mnkyboy]

I'd ride one to see what they're like

But I'm too entrenched in my fossil fuel paradigm and the smell of gas and oil to change.

[McWild]

More petrol for me please.

I laugh at the man's emissions restrictions.

[PirateJafa]

<img src="http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/shared-blogs/dayton/cinema/upload/2009/01/an_ateam_movie/ateam.jpg">

I PITY THE FOOL THAT RIDES A HYBRID.

[rainman]

Confusing poll. I mean, I am a lentil-eating tree-hugger but couldn't figure out which option to take. What sort of hybrid? I mean, you could be including mopeds. And they're not cool. But would I ride an electric bike? Yeah, I would. And a hybrid electric/ICE. Hydrogen, or compressed air, steam... nope.


The day when I am told that I can not ride something burning petrol I will fill her with Vodka and keep riding.

Who would ever tell you that? You might come to the conclusion yourself, though.

[YellowDog]

By Hybrid, I presume the thread is specifically referring to motorcycles.

My answer has to be 'NO'.

If you want better economy, get a smaller bike or a second bike for commuting.

You can buy a very cheap commuting bike and use bugger all fuel to get to work.

Slightly more OR slightly less fuel than a Hybrid (probably less).

Q. Has anyone here seen what you do to a malfuctioning Hybrid?

A. If there is no mechanical warrantee to pay for the multi $000 repair bill, then you just throw it away.

These extremely complex Hybrids are outstandingly expensive to fix and not at all enviromentally friendly.

Maybe one day the technology will be robust and managable.

That might be a better time to restart the debate as to why you should justify trebbling the weight of your bike's drive mechanism.

[imdying]

If it's fun to ride, then sure. If it's a lady boy watered down sack of crap, then they can keep them.

[javawocky]

If it has enough power AND range AND economy AND is a sports bike AND isn't a Honda :Pokey:

what am I saying? :spanking: - sorry, pass me the dinojuice

[SMOKEU]

Hybrid bikes don't sound like a good idea. Imagine the weight of all those batteries and electrics.

[Mystic13]

Hybrid bikes don't sound like a good idea. Imagine the weight of all those batteries and electrics.

I'd hate to let facts get in the way of a good theory...

The electric dirt bikes being produced and run are lighter than the petrol version. Including the new KTM electric dirt bike coming.

All posted up before.

The reality is they may be quicker. A real advantage for dirtbikes has to be the lack of noise. You're going to be able to set up tracks in built up areas. It can open up a whole now category of motorbike sport with greater and wider appeal because of the ease of use.

Imagine riding down to a local park for a blat as you would with a skateboard. It'd have to be an electric bike park but it's possible with electrics. It opens up the real possibility of an urban sport.

It also opens up urban free-style riding as per Danny MacAskill but you don't have to pedal (youtube it).

This has huge potential.

[SMOKEU]

I'd hate to let facts get in the way of a good theory...

The electric dirt bikes being produced and run are lighter than the petrol version. Including the new KTM electric dirt bike coming.

All posted up before.

The reality is they may be quicker. A real advantage for dirtbikes has to be the lack of noise. You're going to be able to set up tracks in built up areas. It can open up a whole now category of motorbike sport with greater and wider appeal because of the ease of use.

Imagine riding down to a local park for a blat as you would with a skateboard. It'd have to be an electric bike park but it's possible with electrics. It opens up the real possibility of an urban sport.

It also opens up urban free-style riding as per Danny MacAskill but you don't have to pedal (youtube it).

This has huge potential.

Then you'd get 5 minutes of great performance and then when the batteries start to go flat it would become slow. When the batteries wear out and need to be replaced, the owner would have to spend $1000s on new batteries. Then there are all those toxic chemicals in the batteries that need to be disposed of. Good in theory, not so good in practice. Petrol power wins.

[bogan]

Petrol power wins.

yeh, cos thats never gonna run out!

[slofox]

The day when I am told that I can not ride something burning petrol I will fill her with Vodka and keep riding.

Come see me - I have me own still...:devil2:

[YellowDog]

yeh, cos thats never gonna run out!
One of the main things you woild lose by running Hybrid is the ability to maintain and make adjustments yourself. Mr Hybrid garage will be creaming himself.

And that won't be cheap.

[firefighter]

What factors would influence your decision?

Only if there were no SUV 'Remuera tractors' being used for commuting at the same time.(or any other non-Hybrid friendly cars with less than 2 occupants)

It would be pretty pointless riding an 'Hybrid' bike when this is still happening......

Compared to cars, bikes are already extremely fuel efficient, have less emmissions, take up less road space, less sitting around in traffic, less damage to the roads.......the list goes on

Why should I then become EVEN MORE eco friendly, when Mrs fuckface who ca'nt drive her fucken SUV properly and thinks it's a fucken truck, which will never see any fucken dirt, and can't see over the fucken steering wheel properly and is gonna kill some poor fucker, is still commuting in her dirty big piece of fucken status symbol?

Pretty fucken pointless if you ask me.

There's no solution with Hybrid bikes, the solution needs to start at Hybrid cars, then i'll listen.

Why should'nt I listen? Because I don't even own a fucken car anymore. So i'm already part of the fucken solution.

What a load of shit.....

Hybrid bikes......... gimme a fucken break.

[hospitalfood]

i thought this thread was about some kind of sex goddess alien crossover, or a pleasure model replicant

[bogan]

One of the main things you woild lose by running Hybrid is the ability to maintain and make adjustments yourself. Mr Hybrid garage will be creaming himself.

And that won't be cheap.

pffft, anything that I want to maintain ill maintain it, hybrids arent that much more complicated than standard bikes, there just more bits.


Only if there were no SUV 'Remuera tractors' being used for commuting at the same time.(or any other non-eco friendly cars with less than 2 occupants)

It would be pretty pointless riding an 'Eco' bike when this is still happening......

Compared to cars, bikes are already extreemly fuel efficient, have less emmissions, take up less road space-less sitting around in traffic, less damage to the roads.......the list goes on

Why should I then become EVEN MORE eco friendly, when Mrs fuckface ca'nt drive her fucken SUV properly and thinks it's a fucken truck, which will never see any fucken dirt, and can't see over the fucken steering wheel properly and is gonna kill some poor fucker, is still commuting in her dirty big piece of fucken status symbol?

Pretty fucken pointless if you ask me.

There's no solution with eco bikes, the solution needs to start at eco cars, then i'll listen. Because I don't even own a fucken car anymore. So i'm already part of the fucken solution.

What a load of shit.

there are already eco cars available, not so much eco bikes.
Lead by example? or be a sheep? ur choice


i thought this thread was about some kind of sex goddess alien crossover, or a pleasure model replicant

nah, thats ferrofluids at #7 (http://www.cracked.com/article_17476_7-man-made-substances-that-laugh-in-face-physics.html)

[Dare]

Why should I then become EVEN MORE eco friendly, when Mrs fuckface ca'nt drive her fucken SUV properly and thinks it's a fucken truck, which will never see any fucken dirt, and can't see over the fucken steering wheel properly and is gonna kill some poor fucker, is still commuting in her dirty big piece of fucken status symbol?

Bahahaha couldnt have said it better myself!


Then you'd get 5 minutes of great performance and then when the batteries start to go flat it would become slow. When the batteries wear out and need to be replaced, the owner would have to spend $1000s on new batteries. Then there are all those toxic chemicals in the batteries that need to be disposed of. Good in theory, not so good in practice. Petrol power wins.

http://www.a123systems.com/products
You're forgetting how much simpler electric really is.
Think of this
I've gotta tune/balance my carb...oh I dont have any..
I've gotta rebore my... oh...
My clutch is... Nope..
My EFI is on the fritz....
I need an oil cha... Oh.

All you're gonna worry about with brushless motors is the bearings, the chains, the tyres and the suspension. With the savings of having 1% of the moving parts to worry about and ridiculous distances between servicing the batteries (SUPERCAPACITORS) will pay for themselves. How much do you spend on petrol in 5 years (a lifetime which the nicad batteries in the electric rav4 blitzed by the way). Also pretty sure even synthetic oil/petrol is less eco friendly per tonne than the next generation of batteries.

[firefighter]

there are already eco cars available, not so much eco bikes.
Lead by example? or be a sheep? ur choice

Get your hand off it.

Being a sheep would entail me doing what you say and not sticking with what I believe.........dip-shit.

Secondly: No self respecting 'bogan' would be ever be defending a fucken hybrid bike. Change your name homo.

Thirdly: Yes there are hybrid cars, I mention this in my own post you stupid fucken knob end if you bothered to read it. I also mention that until the vast majority of cages which commute are Hybrid with at least two people on-board then it's a fucken pointless exercise us bikers riding hybrid bikes.

Fourthly: Car drivers on the whole don't particularly like bikes/bikers as it is. Never mind paying any attention to them being a hybrid, if they really gave a shit they'd be on a fucken bus already, not sitting by themselves in a queue pumping tonnes of shit into the ozone.

I'll stick with my petrol.

How about N.Z worry about it's emmissions when China and the U.S are pumping out a trillion times what we are?......oh yeah it's going to make a massive difference at the end of the day eh?

BULLSHIT. It's a fucken scam.

[Swoop]

Dunno about any "hybrid" (petrol+electric) bike. That would be as silly as a prius!

I'm interested in finding out more on the "Y-bike" electric bike though. It might make a decent "lifeboat" that can be carried in a backpack!

[YellowDog]

Yes it is a scam.

The polution form motor vehicles is reletively miniscule and the heavy focus on the motorist is to divert attention from addressing the actual causes.

BTW: Apparently the gasses coming out of Kiwi sheep and cows is a H U G E problem. Either we want to eat and export meat or we don't.

[bogan]

Get your hand off it.

Being a sheep would entail me doing what you say and not sticking with what I believe.........dip-shit.

Secondly, no self respecting 'bogan' would be ever be defending a fucken hybrid bike. Change your name homo.

Thirdly. Yes there are hybrid cars, I mention this in my own post you stupid fucken knob end if you bothered to read it. I also mention that until the vast majority of cages which commute are Hybrid with at least two people on-board then it's a fucken pointless exercise us bikers riding hybrid bikes.

Car drivers on the whole don't particularly like bikes as it is. Never mind paying any attention as them being a hybrid, if they really gave a shit they'd be on a fucken bus already.

I'll stick with my petrol.

How about N.Z worry about it's emmissions when China and the U.S are pumping out a trillion times what we are?......oh yeah it's going to make a massive difference at the end of the day eh?

BULLSHIT. It's a fucken scam.

lol, hit a nerve there I?
I always though being a sheep was just following the masses, but If its ur decision then maybe u would fall into the lead by example category anyways. As for my name, the more people that i convince to use hybrids or just plain electrics, the more dinosaur juice is still available, for the old school rides favoured by bogans, such as a dodge charger, 69 would be my pic. Now do you see how a bogan could endorse such technology and still remain a bogan? also theres no reason why a hybrid couldnt do some pretty mean skids, massive amounts of electric motor torque would probly even help with skids and wheelies.

as for the rest of your post, I think Mr Deuce's words sum it up nicely.

Point----------------------Chasm--------------------Conclusion.

[CookMySock]

Yeah I'd ride one. For a while. It's quirky and weird, and I'm like that. LOL.

Steve

[SMOKEU]

yeh, cos thats never gonna run out!

I know, fossil fuels will never ever run out (unless this planet blows up)

[CookMySock]

I know, fossil fuels will never ever run out (unless this planet blows up)When all the fossil fuels have gone, I'm gunna throw a match in the big hole thats left. :nono:

Steve

[rainman]

The polution form motor vehicles is reletively miniscule and the heavy focus on the motorist is to divert attention from addressing the actual causes.

Isn't transport CO2 emission about 30% of our total emissions? Hang on, lemme check...

All measurements Gg CO2-e, from 2007 (latest?) inventory:
Road transport is 14,877.2. That's of 32,653.1 for total energy. RT is most of all transport, but I haven't got the exact % handy. There doesn't seem to be a breakdown by transport use - personal transport, trucking, etc but I guess that would be hard to define clearly.
Agriculture is 36,430.
Total emissions is 75,550.

So, Road Transport 19.7%, Total Transport 43.2%, Total Agriculture 48.2% of the total. And Road Transport on it's own is up 76% since 1990.

Of course agriculture is mostly CH4 and transport CO2, so we're comparing apples with apple equivalents, however transport is a big deal. And it's cars and trucks (and bikes, I guess), not planes and trains. That high growth rate (and the relative technical ease of a solution) means it's a good place to start when it comes to emissions reduction. Unless of course we can invent CO2 filtering buttplugs for ruminants.


BTW: Apparently the gasses coming out of Kiwi sheep and cows is a H U G E problem. Either we want to eat and export meat or we don't.

We all need to eat less meat - however sad that may be. I'm not at all averse to a good veggie meal but I am decidedly omnivorous. The fixation with destructive dairy needs to be fixed, too. That said, we do fairly depend on the export revenue, so it will be tough to reinvent ourselves.

[Conquiztador]

In that case: If eating lentils will keep us on the petrol bikes then I say:

LENTILS FOR EVERYONE MORNING MIDDAY AND NIGHT!!

[idleidolidyll]

Hell yes!

But I reckon when electric bikes finally find the range they need, we'll be spoilt rotten. The torque of an electric is legendary.

There's also compressed air power and with frictionless bearings, perhaps even storage motors that are spun up to 200,000 revs and computer controlled to redeliver that to the back wheels as required.

I think the future of motorcycles looks great; it's really only the sounds that may go the way of the dodo.

[SMOKEU]

I'm sticking with petrol power, after all you can't turbo an electric motor and chuck an external gate on it can you?

[Insanity_rules]

When they get good enough for Ducati to make one then I might consider it.

[bogan]

Hell yes!

But I reckon when electric bikes finally find the range they need, we'll be spoilt rotten. The torque of an electric is legendary.

There's also compressed air power and with frictionless bearings, perhaps even storage motors that are spun up to 200,000 revs and computer controlled to redeliver that to the back wheels as required.

I think the future of motorcycles looks great; it's really only the sounds that may go the way of the dodo.


compressed air is a bit lossy i think, flywheels i can see hapening, very high power, and very fast charging, also no "battery memory". Electric bikes can also have quite a bit of motor whine, usualy it controlled at a frequency to remove it, but you could run it with noise just as easy


I'm sticking with petrol power, after all you can't turbo an electric motor and chuck an external gate on it can you?

You can overcurrent/overvolt them, or put some regen on it.

[crash harry]

Wow - go away for a few days and look what happens... I really didn't expect such an agressive response from some... let me see if I can put some context on this one.

I'm an incurable engineer. As such, I can't help designing things almost constantly. At the moment the pet project kicking around in my heaad that may or may not see the light of day if and when I get time is a kind of internal combustion generator - it's not a million miles different from other generators and there are some people out there working on the same general idea, but it has the potential to be more efficient than existing designs. Only drawback for using it as an engine design in a conventional motor vehicle is no rotating shaft output, just electrical energy.

No problems says me, electric motor output with no gearbox and bob's your uncle, perfect commuter vehicle. The idea as it stands would probably work best at the 10kW and under sort of level, so that really rules out cars - and cruisers and sport bikes really, but commuters? Perfect application I thought.

So I was talking to a friend about it, his position was that bikers would never go there. Not one. Ever. Because we're an anti-establishment bunch (probably fairly accurate on average...). But I know I would if the performance was OK. Electric motors have some pretty cool torque characteristics too - flat torque curve in the current-limited region, then flat power curve in the voltage-limited region. That's max torque from zero with no clutch and no gearbox to worry about. And no burning fuel while you're waiting at the lights.

Sooooo.... given all of that, does that change the picture at all?

[davereid]

In that case: If eating lentils will keep us on the petrol bikes then I say: LENTILS FOR EVERYONE MORNING MIDDAY AND NIGHT!!

Scientific American calculated that a bowl of breakfast cereal was equivalent to a 7km trip in an SUV...

So even lentils won't save the planet while population grows.

Just dont beathe out.. its the breathing out that does the damage...

[crash harry]

Ooo look, another poll that defines only to OP's prejudices.

How about: I won't ride a hybrid because they are less "green" than a decent turbo diesel.

I also know plenty of "sport riders" and "tourers" who commute.

I'm pretty sure they think of themselves as motorcyclists, not some niche fashionista.

Wow. You're quick off the mark with the hate aren't you?
I wasn't asking bout turbo deisels though was I? But just specially for you James, would you ride a turbo deisel (commuting bike)? I suspect not.

An for the record, I commute on an R1 every day rain, hail or shine, so I am that sport rider who commutes. I'm still only really interested in the opinions of people who DO or WOULD commute, not people who only ride the coro GP at the speed of sound, or who consider a trek from Whangarei to Ashburton almost long enough to bother with - they're not the target market are they?

[crash harry]

By Hybrid, I presume the thread is specifically referring to motorcycles.

My answer has to be 'NO'.
If you want better economy, get a smaller bike or a second bike for commuting.
You can buy a very cheap commuting bike and use bugger all fuel to get to work.
Slightly more OR slightly less fuel than a Hybrid (probably less).
Q. Has anyone here seen what you do to a malfuctioning Hybrid?
A. If there is no mechanical warrantee to pay for the multi $000 repair bill, then you just throw it away.

These extremely complex Hybrids are outstandingly expensive to fix and not at all enviromentally friendly.
Maybe one day the technology will be robust and managable.
That might be a better time to restart the debate as to why you should justify trebbling the weight of your bike's drive mechanism.

So, paraphrasing your post, you would potentially be interested in a system that was

Simple in concept
Repairable by normal people (ie - your local mechanic or a clued-up mate)
Not significantly heavier than an internal combustion engine based design
Competitively priced

If I understand you correctly, you're not against the idea as such but the current implementations don't measure up to your expectations? (sorry about the leading question, but I'm actually interested in people's opinions here)

[Whynot]

Sooooo.... given all of that, does that change the picture at all?

I guess the more pertinent question is .....
how well do they stand up in a crash?
;)

[crash harry]

I guess the more pertinent question is .....
how well do they stand up in a crash?
;)

Srsly dude, I haven't crashed anything since... like more than 6 months ago. Oh shit, that means I'm due...

[bogan]

Wow - go away for a few days and look what happens... I really didn't expect such an agressive response from some... let me see if I can put some context on this one.

I'm an incurable engineer. As such, I can't help designing things almost constantly. At the moment the pet project kicking around in my heaad that may or may not see the light of day if and when I get time is a kind of internal combustion generator - it's not a million miles different from other generators and there are some people out there working on the same general idea, but it has the potential to be more efficient than existing designs. Only drawback for using it as an engine design in a conventional motor vehicle is no rotating shaft output, just electrical energy.

No problems says me, electric motor output with no gearbox and bob's your uncle, perfect commuter vehicle. The idea as it stands would probably work best at the 10kW and under sort of level, so that really rules out cars - and cruisers and sport bikes really, but commuters? Perfect application I thought.

So I was talking to a friend about it, his position was that bikers would never go there. Not one. Ever. Because we're an anti-establishment bunch (probably fairly accurate on average...). But I know I would if the performance was OK. Electric motors have some pretty cool torque characteristics too - flat torque curve in the current-limited region, then flat power curve in the voltage-limited region. That's max torque from zero with no clutch and no gearbox to worry about. And no burning fuel while you're waiting at the lights.

Sooooo.... given all of that, does that change the picture at all?

haha, many topics on kb will bring out the hate; politics, acc, change, bikes ......

A good idea, I have though about adding a 2kw generator on the pillion seat of my electric once I get it running to add to the range, but I think your idea sounds a bit more professional. I agree a 10kw generator is a good size to start, would work well with an Etek-rt, 72V brushed dc motor with 20hp peak and 10 continuous, and possibly some supercaps though I don't know bugger all about them, have a chat about it with the techs at http://electricmotorcycleforum.com

One hole I do see, is if the bike is meant for commuters, what is the advantage of a hybrid, over a plug in electric?

[MarkH]

Dunno about any "hybrid" (petrol+electric) bike. That would be as silly as a prius!

I have to agree 100% with this. Why carry an IC engine, batteries & an electric motor?

Surely for short range commuting you will get MUCH better performance out of a straight electric bike than a hybrid. As the power storage technology improves (LiMn, LiFePO, super capacitors) we will be able to travel further and have more power available. If I can charge a scooter overnight and get around Auckland throughout the day with 20+KW of power available - why not? A hybrid is stupidly complex mechanically compared to a plug in electric - if super capacitors can live up to the hype then we could be looking at a tiny running cost for electric. Imagine changing motor brushes every couple of years + new tyres and practically nothing else apart from a few cents a day worth of electricity. If the super capacitors can last for decades without needing to be replaced like they claim then they will be more environmentally friendly and save a lot of money.

I would love to have a nice 650cc petrol powered bike to ride on the weekend and a 20KW electric scooter to commute on during the week.

But hybrid, like a Toyota Pre-arse? I don't think so.

[accident]

Sooner or later in the future if the green party have there way.
People will be walking down the road and let off an innocent fart :innocent:, That will be a ten dollar fine!

[crash harry]

haha, many topics on kb will bring out the hate; politics, acc, change, bikes ......

A good idea, I have though about adding a 2kw generator on the pillion seat of my electric once I get it running to add to the range, but I think your idea sounds a bit more professional. I agree a 10kw generator is a good size to start, would work well with an Etek-rt, 72V brushed dc motor with 20hp peak and 10 continuous, and possibly some supercaps though I don't know bugger all about them, have a chat about it with the techs at http://electricmotorcycleforum.com

One hole I do see, is if the bike is meant for commuters, what is the advantage of a hybrid, over a plug in electric?

Good point. Mostly convenience I think. It takes while to charge an EV, a hybrid fills up as quickly as you can pour the petrol into the tank.

[MarkH]

Good point. Mostly convenience I think. It takes while to charge an EV, a hybrid fills up as quickly as you can pour the petrol into the tank.

But for commuting, couldn't the electric just charge up while you sleep? For a cruisey tour of the country the hybrid might be better than the electric, but for the daily commute the electric would be plenty convenient enough.

Also hybrids still burn petrol, plug in bikes can be charged from off-peak hydro generated electricity.

[bogan]

Good point. Mostly convenience I think. It takes while to charge an EV, a hybrid fills up as quickly as you can pour the petrol into the tank.

Yeh the charge times of an ev is still quite large, but for commuter work you can just plug into a three point outlet when you park up a night, this assumes you have a garage or off street parking, also you could do charge it at work instead.
Reminds me bout something i heard on the ev site.

This guy made a plug in electric car which he charged at his work (a university), he notice he had heaps of excess capacity after his daily commute, so he built a system to take the power out of his car to power his house at night, i think now he plans to increase the battery capacity in his ev so he can on-sell this electricity to his neighbours. I wonder if he realises that hes just stealing power from his work :confused: