F5 bike - Two-stroke or four?

[Pumba]

Ok I have been having thoughts about getting a F5 bike, as it seems the in thing to do at Mt Wellington.

Now most of the F5 bikes running seem to be 50cc two smokers (RG, TZ, etc.) but I was woundering how historically the 100cc four smokers have gone in the class?

Really all I see is me spending more time with grease and dirt engrained into my office boy hands, more time lost in the shed, and my money dissapearing majicaly from m bank account.

The real reason for the question is I dont have a lot of 2 bang experience, and thought that I might find the 4 bang four to my riding style (yes I ride an FXR tractor, get over it).

All opinons and preferably facts appreciated (honest).

[bucketracer]

I think Avalon is currently leading the points chase in F5 with a Honda 100 in a RG50 frame.

[DELLORTO]

if you got 100cc four smoker you will be saving the planet :yes:

and you're less likely going to fiddle around with it.......


theres a good condition rg50 on trade-me........but id say a xr100 motor would be faster considering the torque factor.

are you getting rid of your fxr?

[Pumba]

are you getting rid of your fxr?

Hell no.

10ch

[DELLORTO]

Hell no.

10ch

thats good...:yes:


maybe pimping out a crf100 is an option? go on xr50.com there yoshimura gear for them :eek5:

[Shorty_925]

Ok I have been having thoughts about getting a F5 bike, as it seems the in thing to do at Mt Wellington.

Now most of the F5 bikes running seem to be 50cc two smokers (RG, TZ, etc.) but I was woundering how historically the 100cc four smokers have gone in the class?

Really all I see is me spending more time with grease and dirt engrained into my office boy hands, more time lost in the shed, and my money dissapearing majicaly from m bank account.

The real reason for the question is I dont have a lot of 2 bang experience, and thought that I might find the 4 bang four to my riding style (yes I ride an FXR tractor, get over it).

All opinons and preferably facts appreciated (honest).

Here's the perfect F5 bike for you : http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=236539382

Make the trip to Napier and then race it, and take it home with you, perfect!

[gav]

Well, for a start, not sure that either an XR100 or a CRF100 would be considered legal. The old CB100 use to be pretty quick, maybe fit a turbo and you'll be right! :whistle:

[Pumba]

I think Avalon is currently leading the points chase in F5 with a Honda 100 in a RG50 frame.

Hmm, good point I forgot about that one, although (streaching my memory banks) doesnt kieth ride the 100? (very little to do with what you are saying though I know)


Here's the perfect F5 bike for you : http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=236539382

Make the trip to Napier and then race it, and take it home with you, perfect!

Yea I have seen that one advertised.

[DELLORTO]

Well, for a start, not sure that either an XR100 or a CRF100 would be considered legal. The old CB100 use to be pretty quick, maybe fit a turbo and you'll be right! :whistle:

xr100 motor is legal because its not a competition motor

a 100cc 2 valve soch motor is not for competition

i know for sure john connor would consider it legal beause he suggested one for me.

[bucketracer]

Hmm, good point I forgot about that one, although (streaching my memory banks) doesnt kieth ride the 100?

Avalon = F5 & Kieth = B grade F4. Will check when the last lot of results are finally posted on the AMCC site.

[Pumba]

Yep that would make a hell of a lot of sense

[F5 Dave]

Yeah was going to mention Av's bike. It's in my old Fiddy frame.

I say good on ya. F5 is great fun & will help your riding. I'd always go the 2 stroke, but at a kart track the 100 would be easy to ride.

Yoshimura parts? Dear oh dear, read the rules please! XRs are dubious legally. I'd say it was hard to argue they were a road legal bike. An XL however no drama, but it is a little grey.

Remember strictly speaking JC doesn't make the rules. The MNZ does.

[R6_kid]

CB100 goes pretty good with a cam and a decent exhaust.

[nudemetalz]

XR100 and CRF100 engines are really just XL100S engines. I doubt you'd find any difference to them, aside from most likely a better CDI ignition.
So, I would consider them legal.

[F5 Dave]

You might, but would the MNZ? Yes they are largely the same looking, but I suspect a part number search would find they were different. Look I'm not trying to make this into an argument, just pointing out that if the rules were strictly imposed somewhere or someone was to protest at a GP the steward would likely rule against rather than for. However on club scene I think no one would complain. Clearly fitting Yoshi engine parts (further than what is allowed) is blatant cheating though.

[nudemetalz]

Fair call, and yes, Yoshi parts are not right at all.
Short of stripping an engine (if it's internals) how would you know?
Excessive power compared to the competition?

[F5 Dave]

Why not? They used to strip front few engines in the Bucket GP every so often. Keeps people honest.

[nudemetalz]

Have you ever had a 100cc 4T keep your 50 honest, Dave ?
Just curious.

[F5 Dave]

Not out in the open, I lapped Av last time at BOB. Actually also at Mt wgtn GP in 07. But she's come along some since then so all bets are off. That 100 actually goes pretty well.

[nudemetalz]

Same old story isn't it. A 100 four-stroke engine is always going to be quite a bit heavier (esp those old CB100 ones) than a 50 two-stroke, so any hp advantage is negated.

[SHELRACING]

Some interesting opinions here. Avalon is riding extremely well in F5 on her CB100. She certainly has come a long way in the last year or so.

We had a rather crappy CB100 F5 for a while, zzzzz. Riding the little 2 smoke TZ is great fun and I enjoy it more than any other bucket we've had. They do require more maintenace tho Pumba and there's no doubt that you'd spend more time with the bank manager and the spanners if you go the 2 stroke way. But I think it's worth it.

The only prob I have with the TZ is that it does suffer a little trying to drag my well developed physique around the track. Can't blame the bike for that, it's grandma wobblers fault. You might find the same probs Pumba, being of a similar design to me.

Your welcome to do a few laps on ours if you like. Beware tho!! it's a very addictive bike to ride.

[DELLORTO]

at roys hill there was a pitsterpro 150cc pit bike that would be considered a "competition" bike by alot of people but me and the guy riding it had some great battles and i found it alot of fun because his bike was better in some places than my bike and my bike was better in some places than his bike...

unless its an "obvious" competition motor like a crf150r or rm85 ect i dont think it going to be a problem to catch if your a better or as good rider....

thats why no one cares about pit bikes ect because the only people that have got anywhere on them was the lancaster brothers.....but their riding were what made them win.

but i have to say pit bikes have awsome gearing for kart tracks......top gear on straight ect.......they wouldnt be out of reach for a 50cc on taupo though.

[TZ350]

.

Your welcome to do a few laps on ours if you like. Beware tho!! it's a very addictive bike to ride.

Yep, I am very much looking forward to getting my RG50 out there, the few rides I have had on Buckets4me's RG50 has got me hooked.

.

[DELLORTO]

.


Yep, I am very much looking forward to getting my RG50 out there, the few rides I have had on Buckets4me's RG50 has got me hooked.

.

hopefully the f4 class will be as strong as last time, because before the last meeting i thought f5 was going to stop {only 3 riders},

great to watch when its busy in f5......also we need somthing to watch between races! i guessing the scooter fella's arnt coming back?

[Pumba]

Thanks for the opinions and comments so far


I'd say it was hard to argue they were a road legal bike.

Sorry dave I have to make comment on this (although I dont want this entire thread to be on legalities). Please show me where in the chapter 24 it says that the bikes must be road registered. Rule 24-2-4 states that "Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motorcross, Road Racing, Enduro, and Go Kart engines and transmission parts are not permited."

There could be an argument as to if a XR100 engine is a Motorcross or competition engine (to be honest I dont know enough to pass judgement)


They do require more maintenace tho Pumba and there's no doubt that you'd spend more time with the bank manager and the spanners if you go the 2 stroke way. But I think it's worth it.

Well and truly noted (I know what I had to do to get the fucken RX of mine running right)


The only prob I have with the TZ is that it does suffer a little trying to drag my well developed physique around the track. Can't blame the bike for that, it's grandma wobblers fault. You might find the same probs Pumba, being of a similar design to me.

Yes I am well aware that well developed physique (I like that, might use it more often) may work against me. All part of the challenge really.


Your welcome to do a few laps on ours if you like. Beware tho!! it's a very addictive bike to ride.

Might have to take you up on that.

Noticed that this one poped up on Trade me yesterday http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=241741998

I have also been offered this in hte past for $400 http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=241480627 but that involves getting it race ready.

[k14]

Sorry dave I have to make comment on this (although I dont want this entire thread to be on legalities). Please show me where in the chapter 24 it says that the bikes must be road registered. Rule 24-2-4 states that "Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motorcross, Road Racing, Enduro, and Go Kart engines and transmission parts are not permited."
I think he was saying that unless you could say the XR100 was road registerable it would fall into one of the categories above (most likely enduro/mx) and thus be illegal. If it was road registerable then you could argue it was an adventure bike and thus not made for competition. Only other avenue would be to say it was a farm bike, but I somehow doubt many farmers would spring for something like that to round up the sheep!

[DELLORTO]

pumba that little 100 looks good, if you get it nice and tidy and stripped down, new exhuast, porting ect it should be a very reliable f5 race bike.

no "no pitfixing" {shelracing :msn-wink:} -max

[quallman1234]

Everybody knows the XR100 is a trial/learners bike anyway.

Its only a real problem, if someones winning on something really questionable. Like a wicked quick Pit bike. I haven't seen a pit bike win a race yet tho, and there is a pretty quick one down here in wellington.

[DELLORTO]

Everybody knows the XR100 is a trial/learners bike anyway.

Its only a real problem, if someones winning on something really questionable. Like a wicked quick Pit bike. I haven't seen a pit bike win a race yet tho, and there is a pretty quick one down here in wellington.

the pitserpro at royshill isnt unbeatable and thats a high-end pit bike......

[gav]

OK, just to play devils advocate here for a minute, why should a bike be considered "legal" just because its not winning? Lets say its beating you, and taking points off you, is this fair? Hey, why not run a 200cc motor and so long as you don't make top 5 all sweet then?
Nah, rules should be in place and people should make an effort to ensure there bike complies with the rules. If in doubt, then ask. Just don't bitch and moan if some feel your bike isnt eligible.
Maybe if your bike isnt within the rules, you can still race but get no points and your not taking points off other riders.
Anyway, back to the topic ......

[F5 Dave]

Gav's points are entirely valid. It isn't hard to find a legal bucket engine. Ok so people have let outlaw bikes ride to get numbers when they were low but these people should then go buy a bucket, like Rich did with his mondo scooter but then he did the decent thing & bought an FXR.

XRs fall into 'Enduro' I would have thought.

Yes road registerable is a bit incorrect, you could register a TZ250 if you wanted (I considered it & did some ground work many years ago).

[Skunk]

My view is the same as Gav's. Build a legal bike. If you must run an illegal bike don't expect points and be prepared to not race if someone feels you're 'blocking' them in their points race.

[bucketracer]

.

Looked again and no Mt Welly results. :Oi: Has any one else noticed that when Dave D has a bad day the Auckland results are slow being posted on the AMCC site and when he has a realy good day they are posted that night.

I am sure its just a coincidence :bleh:

.

[jasonu]

.

Looked again and no Mt Welly results. :Oi: Has any one else noticed that when Dave D has a bad day the Auckland results are slow being posted on the AMCC site and when he has a realy good day they are posted that night. I am sure its just a coincidence :bleh:

.

You could always do it...

[F5 Dave]

I remember Dave wandering around after big meetings with his notebook recording all the results, he probably has records going back 20 years. I wonder how many other people would put in the effort.

& we might be a little off track now.


Hurry up & buy that F5 bike

The RG is Aarons old one. It might be ok but it needs a pipe as that one was waaay too short & I couldn't convince his insane old man it was wrong despite the fact I was lapping them in short races.

Hey what happened to your old F5 Bike Jason? Would like to see Pikelets RG/DS80 finished, that should have been ok, if not outstanding.

[Pumba]

we might be a little off track now.

Shit there is a surprise



Hurry up & buy that F5 bike

The RG is Aarons old one.

Tell you what I am tempted by that RG (sorry Shorty_925 but it is a bit more local and that makes it a bit more attractive) and I would really like to try at least have some idea around this two stroke bullshit

[Shorty_925]

Tell you what I am tempted by that RG (sorry Shorty_925 but it is a bit more local and that makes it a bit more attractive) and I would really like to try at least have some idea around this two stroke bullshit

A new bike and a new track would have been all too much to take in at once :lol:

Hope some new local picks it up, more riders would be great. All the best in your search Pumba, but agree that other RG50 looks better.

[jasonu]

I remember Dave wandering around after big meetings with his notebook recording all the results, he probably has records going back 20 years. I wonder how many other people would put in the effort.

& we might be a little off track now.


Hurry up & buy that F5 bike

The RG is Aarons old one. It might be ok but it needs a pipe as that one was waaay too short & I couldn't convince his insane old man it was wrong despite the fact I was lapping them in short races.

Hey what happened to your old F5 Bike Jason? Would like to see Pikelets RG/DS80 finished, that should have been ok, if not outstanding.

Is that AAron Gullery of 'GRT' fame??? Yep, old Charlie knows it and everyone else knows F all...
F5 Bike, do you mean my RG50 I bought off DDip? That went the same way as my twin shock RS100, Fing thieves got it.
DDip still has the stats, lap sheets etc from the 2hr me and Gossamer nearly won on his 50. That must be at least 15 years ago.
Piker Picket still has that h20 DS80 motor, probably never use it, make him an offer. More interestingly, that RG50 bridge port cylinder we made still exists. We turned out the orig. liner, welded in a bridge, made a new liner and ran it once. It had tons of mid range but that is as far as we got. Likely a lot of potential there, again, make him an offer.

[F5 Dave]

That's right it was on the same trailer. S.heads.

& Yes Charlie, oh dear. . .

Yeah I talked with Chris about the 80 engine & tried to get someone to buy it, but it needs someone with a clue to finish it, it's not at plug & play stage. I had/have other projects.

[Pumba]

Noticed that this one poped up on Trade me yesterday http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=241741998

Well missed out on that one, wasnt ment to be I guess:weep:

All in good time I say

[DELLORTO]

Well missed out on that one, wasnt ment to be I guess:weep:

All in good time I say

buckets {only converted nicly done ones} sell very quickly, they dont come on trade-me often so keep your eyes peeled :shifty:

[Shorty_925]

Well missed out on that one, wasnt ment to be I guess:weep:


theres still another around..... :2thumbsup

[jasonu]

That's right it was on the same trailer. S.heads.

& Yes Charlie, oh dear. . .

Yeah I talked with Chris about the 80 engine & tried to get someone to buy it, but it needs someone with a clue to finish it, it's not at plug & play stage. I had/have other projects.

Thought you'd be more interested in the bridge port RG50 jug. With the right pipe and some CAREFUL port finishing I am sure it will be better than Gossamers old Pete Sales 50.

[F5 Dave]

Dude I'm building a new engine for Gossimer so he can keep up with me:cool: Things have moved on. Dave's Derbi & Marks Aprilia have pushed the envelop, but the poor old RG50 can be taken to another level (after what? 15 years of development now).

[jasonu]

Dude I'm building a new engine for Gossimer so he can keep up with me:cool: Things have moved on. Dave's Derbi & Marks Aprilia have pushed the envelop, but the poor old RG50 can be taken to another level (after what? 15 years of development now).

Yes mate. I've seen the wopcycles, way too big and heavy. A well sorted and lightened RG should still do the business.