Braking

[liamac]

A newbie question but still an important one.
Front brakes and back breaks. Which ones to use and when? At the moment I just squeeze both but I'm sure there is more technique available than that.

[p.dath]

A newbie question but still an important one.
Front brakes and back breaks. Which ones to use and when? At the moment I just squeeze both but I'm sure there is more technique available than that.

Run for cover!

I use both, mainly to spread by brake pad wear around. Also good practice for emergency braking - but that is a highly contentious issue!

[Zerker]

use both.
start with the back brake feel the weight shift forward and then ease in the front.
if you just go for a lock on both, you will take longer to stop.
go to youtube and watch the learner bike tests for the states, they explain procedure for "The quick stop" which is part of their test.

if you've got drum brakes on both front and back...... good luck sir.

Zerker

[MyGSXF]

I strongly urge you to give Andrew & Lynne a call at www.roadsafe.co.nz & book yourself onto a training course!!! :niceone:

Will be the best investment you can make when it comes to riding bikes!!! :first:

[javawocky]

On a sports bike you want to be using the front for proper stopping. My back brake is just for show most of the time. I use it sometimes when going down a long hill so I don't waste my front pads.

On a vesper I would imagine a far amount of weight would be on the back wheel, so I would probably use it. I just know its a common learner fault to get scared of the front brake and resort to just using the back which is all fun and games until you need to stop in an emergency.

In very slippery wet conditions I sometimes resort to light back brakes to ensure the front is fully in control of steering, but this is rare and when I am riding on egg shells.

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[one fast tl1ooo]

Can of worms, NOooooooo worms everywhere put them back,
who open the worms again:argue:

[Crisis management]

Just a basic fact....you have achieved maximum braking when the tyres are at the point of losing traction. To achieve maximum braking effect you want both tyres at that point.

The rest of it is semantics and individual preferances, if this makes no sense take the RRRS course as suggested, your arse is worth more than the cost of the course.

[The Wop]

As a scooter rider, I use mainly front brakes. As the weight shifts forward on the scooter, the front tends to have more grip. If you are braking hard and in a straight line, the back brakes are far less effective than the front. On my current scoot I have disks front and back but on my previous scoot I had a drum brake on the rear with a disk up front and it was far more noticeable.

However, if I have to brake while cornering (like if the car I am following slows down, I tend to use rear more, as the front could lose grip.

It's an experience thing and I would echo the sentiments about going on a course.

[Flatcap]

On my current scoot I have disks front and back but on my previous scoot I had a drum brake on the rear with a disk up front and it was far more noticeable.
.

Yes, the ole rear drum brake has next to no braking capacity. If you have discs at each end you should use them....

[scracha]

Order is irrelevant as you'll grab a handful when you panic...I shit you not. Just keep squeezing them both and more importantly, PRACTICE a LOT so you'll have a better response when $hit really does happen.

[MyGSXF]

Order is irrelevant as you'll grab a handful when you panic...I shit you not.

That is what an untrained, unskilled rider would do... :rolleyes:

Someone who has had proper training in braking & emergency braking.. would have better knowledge & skills & handle the situation differently :yes:

[scracha]

Someone who has had proper training in braking & emergency braking.. would have better knowledge & skills & handle the situation differently :yes:

Ermm...no. I have had proper training? I must have demonstrated 1000's of emergency stops. but when something comes across my path unexpectedly I still grab a handful and stamp on the rear brake. My training has my brain quickly overcome this reaction and I unlock the sliding rear (& front!!!) of my bike and also look for a good escape route.

Sometimes you just can't overcome instinct. It's like skydiving. 2 days training all goes out the window and most of us end up flapping our arms and screaming like a girl on their first jump until the brain actually overcomes this and we look up to hopefully see a nice fat canopy above us.

[Del Fuego]

I tend to use both most of the time just a good habit to get into. I tend toward front first and then rear a smidge later seems to pull the bike into line and slow it down well but the technique varies from bike to bike.

On the Address i can stop from 60 in 2metres... :Pokey:

[MyGSXF]

..but when something comes across my path unexpectedly I still grab a handful and stamp on the rear brake.

maybe you need to sloooow down a bit... :girlfight:




... most of us end up flapping our arms and screaming like a girl on their first jump

ya big nana's blouse!! :lol:

[crazyhorse]

Can of worms, NOooooooo worms everywhere put them back,
who open the worms again:argue:

Oh no............... not the worms again. Everybody run!!!!!! :shit:

[liamac]

haha! this is great. Its got lots of people talking.

i'll call that number,

Liamac

[MyGSXF]

i'll call that number

Most xlnt.. :2thumbsup

[UberRhys]

Yes, the ole rear drum brake has next to no braking capacity. If you have discs at each end you should use them....

Guvna! I thought you were deceased! Good to see your not... :beer:

[DangerMice]

I have a disc on the front and a drum on the back (which is next to useless). In a normal situation I mostly start with the back just to settle the scoot, but then progressively add more & more front to do the actual stopping, until just before I stop when I'll gradually release the front to stop the forks diving when I do actually stop.

I was initially nervous about applying too much front, particularly in the wet, but eventually I found you can apply way more, way faster than what you might think as a noob.

[duckonin]

Yes, the ole rear drum brake has next to no braking capacity. If you have discs at each end you should use them....

I have left some very serious marks on the road from using a rear drum brake..even after the front has bitten in....

[The Wop]

I have a disc on the front and a drum on the back (which is next to useless). In a normal situation I mostly start with the back just to settle the scoot, but then progressively add more & more front to do the actual stopping, until just before I stop when I'll gradually release the front to stop the forks diving when I do actually stop.

Seems to me it would take you about 2 months to stop then? :lol:


I must have demonstrated 1000's of emergency stops. but when something comes across my path unexpectedly I still grab a handful and stamp on the rear brake. My training has my brain quickly overcome this reaction and I unlock the sliding rear (& front!!!) of my bike and also look for a good escape route.

Sometimes you just can't overcome instinct.

Precisely! You need to practice, practice, practice. Until you are confident that you can stamp hard on the brakes and still keep it under control, ride defensively....

[DangerMice]

Seems to me it would take you about 2 months to stop then? :lol:

lol, well no, not really. half a second between putting rear and front on, brake normally, let front off about half a metre or so before stopping. :ride:

[KelvinAng]

On my Vespa (front disc, rear drum brakes), assuming I'm not e-braking, it's usually front-back-front+back. Seems to give me the smoothest ride to a stop this way without that annoying front suspension bouncing back feeling. When e-braking it's both at once, hard, and then harder still. Seem to work for me.

[Markw336]

use both cause if you use one it will wear the pads down faster and also if you use one brake its easier to fall off

[allycatz]

Well the litle book of instructions that came with my Honda says use both brakes at once.....man in bike shop told me same thing, so I do and so far working okay for me!

[Willdat?]

Well the litle book of instructions that came with my Honda says use both brakes at once.....man in bike shop told me same thing, so I do and so far working okay for me!

A Honda 50 Today has linked brakes....just don't ask me which one is linked, the right or the left! Linked brakes mean that the front and rear brakes will be used in a very efficient bias for stopping quickly. (for drums front and rear they pull up pretty quick!) Now that I think about it, the bike shop advice is sound. Nice and simple

[davereid]

..but when something comes across my path unexpectedly I still grab a handful and stamp on the rear brake. My training has my brain quickly overcome this reaction and I unlock the sliding rear (& front!!!) of my bike and also look for a good escape route...

I'm with you on this one !

I luvs me brakes, and I practise, practise practise with them.

'Cos I don't want to test any of me safety gear, ever.

But, when it all turns to shite, I always hit that front brake too hard.

I might get it right in practice 10,000 times, and then when the dog runs out, I manage to get the front all loose, just like I learned how not to do.

Must practise more !

[The Wop]

On days like today you have to be more careful with the front. While I still use the front brake more than the rear, in the slippery wet you have to be just a little more wary....

[CookMySock]

Which ones to use and when? At the moment I just squeeze both but I'm sure there is more technique available than that.Nah thats it. Use em both. Particularly important in the wet.

If you want to play with them, try locking the rear brake up in a straight line. My guess is you won't be able to in the dry (unless you lean forward), where in the wet it should be easy. Do it while travelling at about 20-30km/hr - no faster, just in case you come off. Check carefully that you won't alarm someone around you or else they'll take an unsafe evasive action and maybe hit you, and that you have loads of clear space in front of you. Preferably wear some knee and elbow pads if you dont have full gear. Once you get good at it you will be laying rubber marks everywhere. :lol:

It's important to discover how hard you can brake in the dry and the wet.

Steve

[UberRhys]

Heard about this website the other day, some info for those new to the road of scooting...

www.scootersurvival.co.nz

The have little vids and this one espically is about braking.

Click here for the braking vid... :shifty: (http://www.scootersurvival.co.nz/video-how-to-ride.html)

Just my 2 cents...

[pritch]

However, if I have to brake while cornering (like if the car I am following slows down, I tend to use rear more, as the front could lose grip.

Good luck with that. :whistle:

[The Wop]

Good luck with that. :whistle:

I'm intrigued.

I was under the impression (based on MTB experience) that hard front braking while in a big lean would unsettle the front tyre. It used to happen to me often but admittedly that was on offroad tracks which are less than flat and consistent (and I have the scars to prove it!!). When I used more back brakes, the small slide that sometimes happened used to help me to get the bike going in the intended direction and also, a rear-end slide is far easier to control than a front wheel slide.

So help me out here. Is front braking while in a lean more effective and more stable than rear braking?

[Coldrider]

I'm intrigued.

I was under the impression (based on MTB experience) that hard front braking while in a big lean would unsettle the front tyre. It used to happen to me often but admittedly that was on offroad tracks which are less than flat and consistent (and I have the scars to prove it!!). When I used more back brakes, the small slide that sometimes happened used to help me to get the bike going in the intended direction and also, a rear-end slide is far easier to control than a front wheel slide.

So help me out here. Is front braking while in a lean more effective and more stable than rear braking?You need to complete a rider coaching trackday and actually do it, not post about it, you cant beat experience & confidence.

[MisterD]

So help me out here. Is front braking while in a lean more effective and more stable than rear braking?

Braking and cornering don't mix well, that goes for four wheels as well as two...if you can, get yourself upright first. I don't do more than drag the rear a bit to slow gently in a corner.

[pritch]

I'm intrigued.

Any braking while the bike/scooter is leaned over has to be done carefully.

Your tyres can only give you 100% traction. This can be used for braking, for cornering, or for both. But you can't have more than 100%. (Regardless of the crap you read about sports players giving 110%.)

If you are using 80% of the available traction leaned over in a corner and you grab the brakes to the extent of say 40%, you will likely end up on yer arse. There are no free lunches.

To be fair I should say that I do practice trail braking on the bike, always with the front brake. On the scooter I sometimes use the rear brake.
There is no on/off though, it is a continual more/less process.

As I write, however, it seems like this isn't something you can learn by reading. You need to get out there and do it. Gently!

There are courses and books that may help smooth the way. Details of both may be found on KB.

[LBD]

And give the front suspension time to compress, before getting too hard on the front brake, that minimises the likelyhood of an uncontrolable stoppie....

[smoky]

A newbie question but still an important one.
Front brakes and back breaks. Which ones to use and when? At the moment I just squeeze both but I'm sure there is more technique available than that.


You need to complete a rider coaching trackday and actually do it, not post about it, you cant beat experience & confidence.


I strongly urge you to give Andrew & Lynne a call at www.roadsafe.co.nz & book yourself onto a training course!!! :niceone:

Will be the best investment you can make when it comes to riding bikes!!! :first:

I'm with you MyGSXF
two people I know have died this year, from getting it wrong - but not from being unable to brake, but from panicking and locking up the brakes mid corner, standing the bike up and heading across the other side of the road into oncoming traffic.

Braking has so many elements to it; it's different on different bikes, its different in different circumstances. You can use the brake to compress the suspension not just for slowing down, coming off the brakes at the right time is just as important as getting on them. My bike has a whole heap of torque so braking on the rear wheel is different to depending on what gear I'm in.

emergency stopping is a different story again.

I wouldn't bother trying to learn off KB, you could get your self confused reading everyones comments here - get some real advice and practical experience, then practice.

[Dave Lobster]

And give the front suspension time to compress, before getting too hard on the front brake, that minimises the likelyhood of an uncontrolable stoppie....

And also helps a controlled one. :)

[LBD]

And also helps a controlled one. :)

Never had the pleasure of a controlled stoppie....had the sh*& scared out of me with an un expected one...

[Coldrider]

When ABS is forced upon you, you will just have to close your eyes, hit all the picks and sail away as if nothing happened.

[The Wop]

Any braking while the bike/scooter is leaned over has to be done carefully.

Your tyres can only give you 100% traction. This can be used for braking, for cornering, or for both. But you can't have more than 100%. (Regardless of the crap you read about sports players giving 110%.)

If you are using 80% of the available traction leaned over in a corner and you grab the brakes to the extent of say 40%, you will likely end up on yer arse. There are no free lunches.

That is a great description! It also explains all the crashes on the MTB!

[cowboyz]

theres a rear brake?

[Coldrider]

theres a rear brake?Fred Merkel taught me never to use mine, so I don't.

[DougB]

Years ago I was visited by a friendly couple who were touring on bikes - the male had only one leg. He managed quite well using his front brake only.
He may still be around, he was then a member of the Ullyses club.
I suspect that coming to a stop and always leaning towards the good leg would be the main technique to master.

The more I think about it now the more respect I have for him.

[Elysium]

theres a rear brake?

Yep. I was trying to figure our what the extra foot rest on the right side of my bike was and realised it was the rear brake :crazy: And sure enough the brake didn't slow my bike down at all.

But seriously fact remains front brakes give your bike 75% of your stopping power, the rear is really used to help smooth out the stop. The rear brakes on my VTR are completely useless so use the front mostly.