L plate suggestion

[CookMySock]

We have had four L-Platers from our family over the last few years, as well as a few local mates, and we also have read in this forum about problems L-Platers face. But specifically addressing the problem of cagers intimidating unsupervised newbies ;

There are loads and loads of situations when actions taken against newbie bikers have them consider breaking the law and removing the very thing that was intended to protect them - the L Plate.

There are mechanisms to protect us on the road such as *555 and the procedure of filling out a complaint form at the police station, but still cagers seem to forget this.

Getting to the point, I wonder what would happen if there were additional legal protection for riders displaying an L Plate. Perhaps if they filed a complaint, the police and the courts might act on it without having a witness, or some other thing that made cagers think twice about doing dangerous shit around newb bikers.

Summarising, the idea is to offer some additional rights in law to L-Platers so cagers actually fear and respect the rider, not the other way around. L-Platers then get to relax and continue with learning, and not struggling to manage others' hostile activities.


Steve

[NDORFN]

Attach the L-Plate with nut and bolt, break L-Plate off leaving enough of it attached to make it evident that there was one on there. The law specifically states that an L-Plate must be "attached" to the bike, but nowhere does it state that one must be "displayed". So when the filthy pigs pull your kid over it's a simple case of "Oh darn. It seems kind officer that some unruley youth have sabotaged my bike at the last stop". Even the greediest of porkers wouldn't have the audacity to serve an infringement notice. You should teach your kid instead how to pull off the "Attitude test", which I believe consists of displaying complete and utter subordination toward the road Nazi.

[CookMySock]

"Oh darn. It seems kind officer that some unruley youth have sabotaged my bike at the last stop".Hehe, we already got that.. you see, the L-Plate swings around under the rego plate so it cant be seen - I can go from L-Plate to no L-Plate in about, oooo, 2 seconds. Afixxed, but not visible.. bugger!


You should teach your kid instead how to pull off the "Attitude test", which I believe consists of displaying complete and utter subordination toward the road Nazi.ohhhhh don't worry about that. I plan to teach them ALL aspects of biking. :oi-grr:

Steve

[Leyton]

I like the idea dude!

[The Baron]

I hear what you are saying But the problem is with tailgaters. We don't need more new road rules! We do NOT police the ones we have now.

So police the tailgate problems as the dangerous driving that they are.

But its not going to happen is it?

Speeding 10km over or drink driving and thats it.

[Hiflyer]

Sorry to be the twat that does this but...



'L' (learner) plates
All riders on a motorcycle learner licence must have an 'L' plate attached to the rear of their motorcycle.

You can get an 'L' plate from a driver licensing agent. It's also acceptable to make one yourself, to the dimensions shown.

The 'L' plate must be clearly visible to all other road users. It must not restrict your front or rear vision.

But the idea of new, tougher laws sounds brilliant to me!

[CookMySock]

I hear what you are saying But the problem is with tailgaters.Tailgaters don't ACTUALLY AFFECT you. It's all in your head. Ignore them, and nothing will happen. Try it.

What the problem is, are morons throwing empty beer bottles at bikes, cars trying to lane-split with bikes, asshole cagers pulling alongside pointing at the L-Plate and hurling abuse, and the like, and other outright intimidating and dangerous activities.

Anyway, its just an idea.

Steve

[miSTa]

Tailgaters don't ACTUALLY AFFECT you. It's all in your head. Ignore them, and nothing will happen. Try it.
You're kidding right? There's no way you be serious, what happens when a hazard appears and you can't slow to avoid it because someone is up your date? FFS put some thought in to your comments.

[CookMySock]

You're kidding right? There's no way you be serious, what happens when a hazard appears and you can't slow to avoid it because someone is up your date? FFS put some thought in to your comments.The road code says if someone is following too closely you are to increase the space in front of you for the exact purpose you mention. There are many other steps you can use also, such as pulling over and letting them pass.

The problem is, irate cagers thinking they can bash newbies because they are small, scared, and weak.

Steve

[Squiggles]

"Oh darn. It seems kind officer that some unruley youth have sabotaged my bike at the last stop". Even the greediest of porkers wouldn't have the audacity to serve an infringement notice.

If you actually think they'd believe any such excuse you're fooking deluded.

I think alot of it (alot, not all) is in the head, you think it makes you more vulnerable to idiots so you're more aware of them.

[CookMySock]

I think alot of it (alot, not all) is in the head, you think it makes you more vulnerable to idiots so you're more aware of them.You are right, but there have been quite a few really dangerous things done to newbies here.

My wife had a quart beer bottle smashed on the road right in front of here at highway speeds. This is a fucking dangerous thing to have happen.

My Learner lady friend down the road had a carload of idots pull over the centerline and right up alongside of her and abuse her at length because she was in the right half-lane. She was terrified, and rightly so. (90km/hr, clear road)

Both of these people had L plates on. I bet there are many more stories such as this.

Steve

[tigertim20]

Tailgaters don't ACTUALLY AFFECT you. It's all in your head. Ignore them, and nothing will happen. Try it.

Steve

I genuinely think that this guy needs to be hung by the testicles, and shot through the eyes. Thus improving the knowledge base of all motorcyclists who would have otherwise been influenced by this idiot, in a manner, based on his recent comments, that could VERY possibly cost them their lives on the road. Fucking unreal. I bet he wont survive half as many years on a bike as someone like our resident nighthawk has with those attitudes.

I can only hope that newbies who read his posts have either the recognition the see what crap he is talking, or enough people around them to tell them differently.

At the moment I am teaching my partner to ride, and this honestly fucking scares me, as at some point I need to send her out with other riders to get advice from them too. And I can tell you those riders will need to fulfill two requirements, they will need to have Kaylas express permission, and trust. They will also need to have been on rides with me so I am confident that they can teach her positive values, and fortunately, there are a high number of those types of people who I trust and can call upon for advice and assistance, and for that reason I feel lucky. God help those who do not have the positive influences we have on here and instead have a very 'DangerousBastard" to look up to.

[CookMySock]

@Tigertim

Since you shoot your mouth off, please point out ANY person who has ACTUALLY been hurt by a tailgater EVER, ANYWHERE, and I do not mean someone paniccing and running off the road because the BELIEVE they are GOING to be hurt, I mean some L-Plate biker who has ACTUALLY been hurt by a tailgater. Lets hear it. Bring your facts to the discussion, if you have any.

Cmon then? Facts please. I invite it. But you won't will you? You just attempt to put someone else down, for the express purpose of making yourself bigger.

Facts or lose face. :lol:

Steve

[Leyton]

The problem is, irate cagers thinking they can bash newbies because they are small, scared, and weak.

Steve

Yep, Its bully's 101. Increasing the power of the "L" by not requiring a witness might be enough to create a little distance between the bully and the "L" plater.

I too have had abuse hurled at me.. I was going 100-110km/hr.. not holding up anything.. it was a cager who thought I was an obstical to get around just becuase I had a "L" plate regardless of my speed. And yep, there was abuse in there too.

As for the correct action to to combat tailgaters. I agree with the road code completely on that one.
The reasons I agree with that is :


The mentality of speeding up if you are a n00b may exceed your ability thresh hold putting yourself and others at risk (Mostly yourself being the one on the bike).. its just not worth it sometimes.
It could start a race, the tail gater is just going to get a thrill out of being a bully anyway, so do not speed up!
When it is safe to so do, do pull over, signal the d!ckwad past, if they don't pass then tough, or pull over to a stop (Last resort)


In reality, I have not had problems with tailgaters for a long time... they normaly just pass, and they are more then welcome to get out of my way if they are going 140+.. better them going that speed infront of me then behind. Bikes I can live with to an extent, but cagers!

I do not normaly speed up purely for the fact I do not want to pay(a fine if cought speeding) to clear a path for some useless prat whom does not know how to pass me.

[NighthawkNZ]

S please point out ANY person who has ACTUALLY been hurt by a tailgater EVER, ANYWHERE, and I do not mean someone paniccing and running off the road because the BELIEVE they are GOING to be hurt, I mean some L-Plate biker who has ACTUALLY been hurt by a tailgater. Lets hear it. Bring your facts to the discussion, if you have any.

Me... (and I aint going to go into details about it) I have been hit from behind at 120kph by a tailgater... so do not ever tell me it is not dangerous... I have also been hit and pushed into on coming traffic nearly run over by a Kenworth who was fully locked up to trying to stop... because some fuckwit was tailgating and not watching the road to notice there was a stop sign...

So don't ever ever tell me it is not dangerous...

[tigertim20]

@Tigertim

Since you shoot your mouth off, please point out ANY person who has ACTUALLY been hurt by a tailgater EVER, ANYWHERE, and I do not mean someone paniccing and running off the road because the BELIEVE they are GOING to be hurt, I mean some L-Plate biker who has ACTUALLY been hurt by a tailgater. Lets hear it. Bring your facts to the discussion, if you have any.

Cmon then? Facts please. I invite it. But you won't will you? You just attempt to put someone else down, for the express purpose of making yourself bigger.

Facts or lose face. :lol:

Steve

you know last time you told somebody else not to shootr their mouth off you got absolutely pawned on here...
secondly, had they not been tailgated, they wouldnt have have been afraid in the first place, and thus lost their cool.
thirdly, the closer somebody is behind you, the less safe and accident free ways you have of doing anything, be it:
slowing to take your exit/turn at a safe speed,
stopping for an, or to avoid an accident ahead,
stopping for a sudden occurrance in the road ahead such as a pedestrian not concentrating on the cars driving past.
any of these and many other instances can cause you to be rammed up the rear as a result of you taking evasive action.
if you would like na,es i can give you three names, if the families permit me to, of motorcyclists i knew in marlborough over a 5 year period, two who died, one with permanent injuries, which make walking painfull. all as a rwsult of tailgaters. one in an 80km area. the other two in a 70km and a 50km area. for the record, the one in a 50km area was one who died.
DB please, unless you hate somebody, PLEASE do not attempt to teach anyone to ride a motorcycle.

[Leyton]

yeah... personaly at intersections when there is a car behind me, I close the gap between me and the car behind me alot sooner so they have a longer chance of being aware.

For ex.. put down their phone, stop texting and apply some thought into driving and apply the brake for the progressive slow to a stop.

I have neally been rammed at an intersection myself when I first started learning. And I quickly became aware of traffic behaviour.

It is quite different in a car, you do not really think of the dickwad behind ya going to tail you... unless it is a big truck ?, funny eh

[tigertim20]

The road code says if someone is following too closely you are to increase the space in front of you for the exact purpose you mention. There are many other steps you can use also, such as pulling over and letting them pass.

The problem is, irate cagers thinking they can bash newbies because they are small, scared, and weak.

Steve


and regardless, if you speed, in an attempt to put that distance there, you have still broken the law, but by pulling over and letting them past, you have not.

on the bright side you have very aptly and accurately given yourself a handle on this site that I beleive adequately describes the state of mind you posses while posting on this site. well done.

[Leyton]

thirdly, the closer somebody is behind you, the less safe and accident free ways you have of doing anything, be it:
slowing to take your exit/turn at a safe speed,
stopping for an, or to avoid an accident ahead,
stopping for a sudden occurrance in the road ahead such as a pedestrian

Dude, I don't see why you are ripping into DB just because he speaks common sence. And I see why a few of you are getting quite skewed on this... he has not spelt it out for you!. Think about what he is saying, take some time, think again. Then offer your input. There is no need to put DB down here...

If you increase the distance infront of you, you have MORE time to react meaning you can break slower. You acually transfer the 2 seconds you save up front, and give it to the tail gater compensating for their lack of 2 second rule buffer.

If you are in a hazard area such as a busy street, well.. you are fairly much screwed in all accounts.

Pulling to the left to allow the person to pass is dangerious in a busy multiple hazzard town street, its nuts. You only alternative is to slow your speed in this case (This will piss off the tail gater) but tough!. Your skin, Your life. The tailgater does not give a toss. (They are not thinking of you), probably thinking of their hair appointment etc...

And if you are feeling that uncomfortable about it, pull over to park, then pull out. I do it many times in the cage.. (Little Starlet (Company car)), I get bullyed by cars all the time and it annoys the daylights out of me, I just pull left as if I was going to park.... then pull out again right behind them and increase that gap. Wulla.. new safety bubble.

[Leyton]

Attach the L-Plate with nut and bolt, break L-Plate off leaving enough of it attached to make it evident

I just went hard with mine on.. never followed the 70km/hr rule crap. Kept it on to keep my insurance happy.

Cage's were more tollerant of a "L" plater going sensible speeds .. ie.. 100-110 to match the traffic flow. Respect!

Anything under 105 and you were bully bait on the open road. Prolly less so if you did not have the "L" plate..

[tigertim20]

Dude, I don't see why you are ripping into DB just because he speaks common sence. And I see why a few of you are getting quite skewed on this... he has not spelt it out for you!. Think about what he is saying, take some time, think again. Then offer your input. There is no need to put DB down here...

If you increase the distance infront of you, you have MORE time to react meaning you can break slower. You acually transfer the 2 seconds you save up front, and give it to the tail gater compensating for their lack of 2 second rule buffer.

If you are in a hazard area such as a busy street, well.. you are fairly much screwed in all accounts.

Pulling to the left to allow the person to pass is dangerious, we all know keeping left on a busy town street is nuts. You only alternative is to slow your speed in this case (This will piss off the tail gater) but tough!. Your skin, Your life. The tailgater does not give a toss. (They are not thinking of you), probably thinking of their hair appointment etc...

And if you are feeling that uncomfortable about it, pull over to park, then pull out. I do it many times in the cage.. (Little Starlet (Company car)), I get bullyed by cars all the time and it annoys the daylights out of me, I just pull left as if I was going to park.... then pull out again right behind them and increase that gap. Wulla.. new safety bubble.

Really more the advice I am ripping inot than the man.
But, as you yourself have mentioned, often pulling ahead is not an option. Aditionally they are tailgating you to push you along, you speed up, they wil match you and stay there untill they get past, that is the definition of a tailgater. also, if you do speed up, think about it, you were probably already doing 5 or so KM over the limit, add that burst of speed, and hello, you are now 25km over the limit, whats gonna happen to YOU when a copper sees you?...
The pulling over straight away thing, isnt dangerous, you indicate your intentions, and move to the left of you lane. Even if you don not cross the left hand boundary of your lane. you have provided the tailgater with enough room to get past and get away from you. out of your way and making you safer. you do this as soon as is practical, not when you are 50m from an intersection on the left...
The other problem with a burst of speed, is that sooner or later you will find yourself behind whatever was further ahead of you, then what? You have made it even worse for yourself, because the tailgater catches up again, and this time, you dont have the room to use a burst of speed do you...

[Leyton]

Really more the advice I am ripping inot than the man.

As entitled so sweet as !

+1 for clearing that up.:niceone:

And yep, completely agree with your last post dude. The odd time I have had a cager pull beside me for pass but not making much ground... with a quick check of the mirror (to make sure no one is behind me, already headchecked at the cager passing)... and your not supposed to do this..., I assist for a breif moment by breaking when the car is beside me.. just incase the cager pulls back in. Thus I am maintaining the control of my safety a own safety buffer.

In the road code it recommends you to maintain your speed and pull as far left as safe. Fair enough because the car/bike passing, the driver/rider has computed their manover based on your known speed. You could be putting the passer at risk by slowing down, they could disorentate, if this happens.. they are a stupid prat that should not have tryed passing anyways..

So yeah, I don't mind breaking that road code "guide!" hehe.

But yeah, giving the "L" plater a little authority boost may help balance the playing feild between over-confident tailgater and n00b.

You should poll it DB!

[NDORFN]

" 'L' (learner) plates
All riders on a motorcycle learner licence must have an 'L' plate attached to the rear of their motorcycle.

You can get an 'L' plate from a driver licensing agent. It's also acceptable to make one yourself, to the dimensions shown.

The 'L' plate must be clearly visible to all other road users. It must not restrict your front or rear vision."

If you put an L-Plate on then break it off, you HAVE attached it. And if all other road users are prepared to go look in the culvert that you tossed it in it WOULD be clearly visible to them. But you shouldn't do this because throwing your L-Plate in a culvert is littering and that's naughty. Proper naughty.

[CookMySock]

DB please, unless you hate somebody, PLEASE do not attempt to teach anyone to ride a motorcycle.Hehe, I will do exactly as I choose, just like you do. You have no say in it.

Point taken about about being hit from behind, BUT I question why the hell some person might come to a halt in the middle of a lane when they KNOW a fucking kenworth truck is right behind them. :weird: Does it not occur to you what is imminent? Showing your inexperience there perhaps? ;)

Why not split past some obstacle and leave the carnage behind you? Don't know how to split? Too scared to? :crybaby:

Your logic doesn't stack up. Sorry. :yawn:

Steve

[CookMySock]

It is quite different in a car, you do not really think of the dickwad behind ya going to tail you... unless it is a big truck ?, funny ehOh, you do. In a quick-stop situation you would be well advised to turn your attention to what is unfolding behind you, AFTER you have resolved your immediate responsibilities in front of you.

Quite a few times I have had a car and trailer crossed-up sideways behind me with all their tyres smoking still enclosing at an alarming rate, unable to stop. It's going to hurt.

Always always always be prepared to get the hell down the side of the queue. That is a card up your sleeve you should never be without. Never stop on the tail end of a queue unless you are very very secure in that decision.

I actually feel safer on a bike than a car in situations like this - there is always a gap to head down - not so in a car.

Steve

[NighthawkNZ]

Point taken about about being hit from behind, BUT I question why the hell some person might come to a halt in the middle of a lane when they KNOW a fucking kenworth truck is right behind them. :weird: Does it not occur to you what is imminent? Showing your inexperience there perhaps? ;)


FFS Did you not read it properly... ok I will spell out to you... I even draw you a pretty little picture if you want

I was hit from behind from a car that was tailgating. The Kenworth was on the main road in the traffic I had stopped for coming from my right... I was wanting to turn left... the car hit and push me out in to the path of the truck... the kenworth was fully locked up trying to stop and I was only just able to roll away in time... movie stuff really




Why not split past some obstacle and leave the carnage behind you? Don't know how to split? Too scared to? :crybaby:

Gee I thought we we talking about suggestions for a learner riders, lane spliting while its not illegal it is frowned upon... and while I don't care, no my other half doesn't like to lane split and many learners on 250's don't have the power to do it safely either, or are not experienced enough... telling someone to simply lane split is bad advise.

[davereid]

Yep, often if I have to stop quickly, for example if the car in front brakes heavily for an orange light, I will pull up NEXT to the fast stopping vehicle. That way, I have already started the lane split I was most likely going to do anyway, but if the car behond me fails to stop, it won't matter.

I normally encourage tailgaters to pass - they make excellent radar shields, and you can often control their speed b how close you follow them.

With regard to the yellow L plate, I think you are displaying them incorrectly.

They go on the left hand side of the number plate, but not facing the vehicle behind, facing the vehicle in front. A carefully placed rego holder ensures they cannot be seen from behind, yet they meet all the rules regarding their usage - they are on the back, and can be seen by all other road users.

As long as they are in front of the bike, and on the left hand side !.

[CookMySock]

I was hit from behind from a car that was tailgating. The Kenworth was on the main road in the traffic I had stopped for coming from my right... I was wanting to turn left... the car hit and push me out in to the path of the truck... the kenworth was fully locked up trying to stop and I was only just able to roll away in time... movie stuff reallyThat is movie stuff, and exceptional circumstances for sure. All the same, I don't think I would be stopping in the center of the lane, allowing the following car no room to get past. While you have every right to be there, you leave yourself wide open to be shunted into live traffic.


Gee I thought we we talking about suggestions for a learner riders, lane spliting while its not illegal it is frowned upon... and while I don't care, no my other half doesn't like to lane split and many learners on 250's don't have the power to do it safely either, or are not experienced enough... telling someone to simply lane split is bad advise.That was not my advice. I was referring to it to be used in preparedness for the emergency situation of being hit from behind. As such, it is an emergency procedure.

I encourage learners to lane-split as early as possible. They do not like it at all (but they catch on to it quick hehe), but the reality is they must stop thinking like a cager. The gaps in front of them are enormous (for a bike), and they should realise earlier rather than later, that they can easily slip down the side without stress at all, and that this is a particularly desirable thing to be good at to manage emergencies, particularly the one in question.

And finally, why this quest against me? Every response from you an irate one. I am sure you are a much nicer person in real life. How about you quit putting your poor character on display and show some strength? I'm not here to beat you, but seemingly you have taken up some challenge.


Yep, often if I have to stop quickly, for example if the car in front brakes heavily for an orange light, I will pull up NEXT to the fast stopping vehicle. That way, I have already started the lane split I was most likely going to do anyway, but if the car behond me fails to stop, it won't matter.Yeah thats what I teach. Always be ready to duck down some gap. It's great security, and much fun to be had also. :lol:


With regard to the yellow L plate, I think you are displaying them incorrectly. [...] As long as they are in front of the bike, and on the left hand side !.Is this true? That is surprising, but useful!


Steve

[CookMySock]

It also occurs to me, the L-Plate can be home made. It has to be yellow, and of a certain size, but it does not have to be the brightest chrome yellow you can find, hehe. It could be some shitty hard to see non-reflective yellow-ochre plate, and still be legal.

Steve

[NighthawkNZ]

I don't think I would be stopping in the center of the lane, allowing the following car no room to get past. While you have every right to be there, you leave yourself wide open to be shunted into live traffic.

It was an intersection a stop sign I had to stop do you not read... as I said in my first post...


because some fuckwit was tailgating and not watching the road to notice there was a stop sign...

So you advice is now for me not to stop at the Stop sign and to just filter through the traffic to loose the tailgater... in which I probably would have hit the kenworth

your logic doesn't not compute...


L plate suggestion
Title of thread suggests talking about newbie... and incouraging to lane spliit as bad advise for a newbie... here the best thing is to let the learn that side at their own time if they are wanting to...


And finally, why this quest against me? Every response from you an irate one. I am sure you are a much nicer person in real life. How about you quit putting your poor character on display and show some strength? I'm not here to beat you, but seemingly you have taken up some challenge.

Its not you its your advice

[davebullet]

I see what DB said about tailgating, but we also acknowledge it eliminates any safety buffer should something happen. The best advice I could give a leaner is to scan your mirrors regularly and take action as soon as you detect tailgating (not waiting until it could be too late)..

I like the idea of the law giving more weight to L-plate rider complaints.

In my experience (when I was an experienced cager, before getting into biking), I used to see an L-plate (car usually) and say - oh god, how can I get around this person so as not to hold me up.

I think abolishing the need to display an L-plate (make it optional) would be the first step.

As a motorist - I need to allow for all skills of riders. There could be the bloke who's just picked up his Goldwing from the dealer and is a bit wobbly getting it home. Sure - he is a fully licensed rider, but I need to observe and allow for others skill levels.

There are times when I am tired and will not split traffic. I know my reactions aren't good enough. I won't ride my bike when I feel angry either (as I will take stupid risks).

I think the best advice I could give a learner is to start traveling at off-peak times and roads.... slowly increasing the "busyness" as their confidence grows and their automation of the controls sets in.

Lots of simulated practice is probably good
1. How to emergency stop
2. What to do when you get a tailgater
3. What to do when you get abused like that lady you mentioned
4. What to do when you think "oh shit through a corner I'm going too quick"
etc...

[davebullet]

Yep, often if I have to stop quickly, for example if the car in front brakes heavily for an orange light, I will pull up NEXT to the fast stopping vehicle. That way, I have already started the lane split I was most likely going to do anyway, but if the car behond me fails to stop, it won't matter.

I did this when in a mini once and the brakes failed... luckily I was driving a mini and it squeezed in the gap between parked cars and the vehicle in front of me.

[CookMySock]

So you advice is now for me not to stop at the Stop sign and to just filter through the traffic to loose the tailgater... in which I probably would have hit the kenworthNo. It was not my advice.

I suggested parking to one side, so that traffic had some opportunity to get by you in case they were unable to stop. I also referred specifically to your right to be there, but also suggested that it was not prudent (as you subsequently and horrifically discovered) - but still you are right and they are wrong. :weird:

Your advice is bogus. Your actions that ACTUALLY put your own life at risk are bogus also. Your attempts at logic to defend them have amounted to nothing. Your suggestion that I didn't get it are actually incorrect - it is you who didn't read correctly. I can defeat your faulty logic with a flick of my little finger. Sorry. :yawn:

Steve

[Leyton]

... I reckon one should just ride on the footpath and avoid intersections all together.. drop it into the bend.. lay some rubber down.. and merge back with the traffic over the curb.. :whistle:

[duckonin]

L..pates..people were more tolerant about them 35 odd years back,I really do wonder why with so much aggression (road rage) these days that the system thinks they make a difference ? :argh:

[st00ji]

i guess the system is just 35 years behind the real world :D

personally i ditched my L plate after a couple of days, got the living crap scared out of me a couple of times on the mway attempting to somewhat do the speed im supposed to... even at 80k cars were doing all kinds of scary stuff round me. riding with traffic has proven much more peaceful. the only trick is holding my patience enough to not get pulled over for other silliness :D

plus splitting with a L plate on is liable to raise some eyebrows :P

then again i've been driving cars for many years, so i dont feel like im lacking in terms of understanding and anticipating traffic, which someone who is new to both bikes AND the road might do. that and im old enough to have some grasp of my own limitations (much shorter than the bikes, hah)

[PrincessBandit]

L..pates..people were more tolerant about them 35 odd years back,I really do wonder why with so much aggression (road rage) these days that the system thinks they make a difference ? :argh:

A valid point. I just think people are getting progressively more aggressive on the road and less tolerant. Or people's attitudes are the same they've always been but with the huge increase of traffic on our roads today there isn't the same leeway to use margins of error.

I always kept my L plate on and had both good and bad experiences from it. While this is in no way any consolation for a newb who is on their L, I agree that penalties for any vehicle/person hitting or injuring an L plater should be drastically increased. Of course there will always be "her word against his word" in the event of no independant witnesses, but I think there is merit in drivers being made/"encouraged" to be more cautious around L's - bike and car!

[peasea]

ORRRRR!

What you could do is; provide a full-on training course (paid by whoever wants one) and when you've passed all the requirements you could then hit the road with confidence and in greater safety without a freakin' L-plate.

Oops, sorry, too sensible.

[CookMySock]

ORRRRR!

What you could do is; provide a full-on training course (paid by whoever wants one) and when you've passed all the requirements you could then hit the road with confidence and in greater safety without a freakin' L-plate.

Oops, sorry, too sensible.Not too sensible at all, but the reality is no one wants to pay for training coz they don't need it. Yeah yeah I know they do, but they don't. Even the mentors on this forum are far underutilised.

All training is undesired. Consider school, basic handling skills test, defensive driving courses, university.. who would do these things if they didn't have to?

My kids submit to my methodology because they have to, and because I influenced the paradigm-shift, that they would be light years ahead inside a very short time, should they do it my way - ie, become a sport bike rider, not just a motor-cycle license holder.

This thread introduced the idea of changing, or adding legislation, specifically to address issues actually faced by L-Platers, specifically for the purpose of have said L-Plate do what it was originally intended, and that is make the learner process safer, not the opposite which is actually happening on a regular basis. It is nothing to do with placating the strong feelings of those who imagine themselves to be unsafe because of their own faulty thinking - that is their own responsibility.

Steve

[vifferman]

Y I bet there are many more stories such as this.
I don't have any bike ones, since when I was a looner there wasn't such a thing as an L-plate, just a different rego sticker you were supposed to have (if you obeyed the rule, or the one about bike size :whistle:)
However (but!) I've had some nasty experiences teaching my sons to drive. Some people get very unpleasant and impatient when they see an L plate. It had nothing to do with the driving - I once left the plates on (illegal, BTW) because we had a coupe, and it was hard to reach the plate on the back windscreen, and I was in a hurry. I drove a few km to the mall and back, and couldn't believe how desperate some drivers were to get past me, even when I was driving at nearly 15km/h over the limit. :wacko:

I don't get it; do these morons think your vehicle's gonna explode or somehow otherwise endanger their life or impinge on their driving?

I think your idea has some merit, Steve, but I can't see the trafficocrats going for it, even if it does give them a handy excuse for yet another new rule'n'regulation to impose on us.

[CookMySock]

Well I wouldn't mind if they imposed such a rule on me. It keeps my kids safe, and one day, my grandkids (not too soon with any luck!)

And hey why can't people just fucking behave anyway.. sheesh.

Steve

[MsKABC]

I find it kind of ironic, DB, that in many circumstances you advocate flouting the law, and yet at times like these, you are crying about having to display an L-plate and demanding extra laws to protect L-plate riders. The solution to your problem is simple: continue flouting the law by not displaying the L-plate and thereby not attract the attention of the people you describe.

FWIW, I have seen all manner of despicable behaviour on the roads directed at cagers, bikers (L-plates or not), truckies, pedestrians, cyclists.... The problem is not restricted to L-platers. A better solution would be to improve the attitudes of road users in general.

We can all contribute to this by setting a good example.....lead on, DB! ;)

[CookMySock]

I find it kind of ironic, DB, that in many circumstances you advocate flouting the law, and yet at times like these, you are crying about having to display an L-plate and demanding extra laws to protect L-plate riders. The solution to your problem is simple: continue flouting the law by not displaying the L-plate and thereby not attract the attention of the people you describe.I flout the law when there there is nothing it will gain me, and when it won't threaten your rights. I'll travel at 120k when I choose to, pass where it is dissapproved of, and weasel out of things as much as I like. Just like the next person does. :hug:

What I hoped to address is how newbies feel. Think back to when you were a newbie biker and how you felt.

Steve

[MsKABC]

I flout the law when there there is nothing it will gain me, and when it won't threaten your rights.

Really?


So if someone crashes into your bike (their fault) you would expect them to pay for your damage.

But if you crash into somebody else's vehicle (your fault) you would tell them to fuck off and not pay to fix their vehicle?


YES, and YES! LOL! Slowly, slowly you start to understand. Not what your mother told you to do is it. ;)


Tell me, how is crashing into someone and not reimbursing them respecting their rights?

And then there are your posts about HID bulbs (because blinding other road users is totally respectful), but we won't even go there...

We could go on and on.


Think back to when you were a newbie biker and how you felt.


I felt absolutely fine, never had any problems. Thanks for asking ;)