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idleidolidyll
20th September 2009, 08:03
After giving Raj a ride on the 60HP KTM single Thursday night; Raj tells me that it's kinda like cheating to use it.

After 20km on his Yammy I was already over it: no knocks on Raj, I just don't like modern sport bikes on the road; they don't deliver without doing supersonics on the straights to make up what they lost in the corners. I reckon most would be quicker on twins and singles.

I reckon almost everyone who buys a Yamazukikawondaducrilia 1198GSXR!Z1CBRRRRRRR thinks they're 'cheating' too. They seem to think that these things will give them the 'edge' they need.

That's the hype; the R1, GSXR, 1198 etc etc are the fastest, the lightest and the best handling proddy superbikes out there and, by implication, nothing can touch them.................until a bike with 1/3rd of the HP comes along and 'cheats' them out of the title

Cheating? Nah Raj, just smart

The dumasses in F3 seem to think the same thing: Motards banned because of handlebar height; how farkin ridiculous was that jackass regulation! Dump more than half the entries because a bunch of whiners on gutless old jappa 4's don't like losing to chook chasers.

Lets see, you could buy an old jappa 4, spend an extra 20k on making it go fast and be fragile and still get your ass kicked by the 'cheats' on 16k chook chasers or you could just get smarter and buy one too!

That said, acknowledgement to the few modern road bikes that can win F3: Glen on the Zuki in particular but perhaps the Cagiva 650 Raptor would be even better. Seems to me motards in F3 would be cheaper too. They come standard with better suspension to start with and the next 10-15% HP can be liberated merely with airbox mods and a remap. No, they'll never do it onPuke but who cares?
Hey, maybe someone could spend u[p large and win on Hyosung 650!

jrandom
20th September 2009, 08:25
It's true, it's true. Traditional racebike geometry makes a bike harder to ride fast in slow corners. And it makes my legs hurt.

And all of NZ's back roads and about two-thirds of the Taupo Motorsport Park count as 'slow corners'. And my legs hurt enough as it is without riding cramped motorcycles.

What sort of tank range do you get on your KTM, Idle?

Morcs
20th September 2009, 09:49
This is why I no longer own a sportsbike, and never will buy another one. Well maybe an NC30 again, but thats about it.

Motards ftw. Idol, my DRZ400 had about 39hp and it would annihililate ANY sportsbike on scenic drive, It was bliss :Punk:

koba
20th September 2009, 09:55
I know you are just out for a fish but...
I don't know if it is across the board but Motards are allowed back in F3 at Vic Club at least.
Its all about the right tool for the job innit?! I commute on an AX100 because it is the right tool for the job.

slowpoke
20th September 2009, 11:18
I kind of agree with ya.....and I kind of don't.

You don't realise just how few corners there are under 120kph on the open road and how far apart they are until you've ridden a motard on the road. Sure, they're great over the 'taka's or such like but roads like that are few and far between. I loved my 'berg 650 over the 'taka's but I hated riding there, even from just outside M'boro....then there's having to fill up every 110km's or so, run expensive 5-40w oil and biff it every 500km's etc etc

The problem with motards is that the practical ones are mostly gutless, heavy wannabe's and the really fun ones are totally impractical.

But I reckon they'd be perfect for F3. I'm constantly suprised that no-one has set one up as a dedicated road race bike. 120ish kg's, 60hp, good suspension components, what's not to like?

onearmedbandit
20th September 2009, 11:44
Doesn't really matter what you ride or how you ride it, just as long you enjoy yourself. And yes I can see the advantages in a lighter less powerful bike. But I also can see the advantages in a 150hp bike ap well.

That Guy
20th September 2009, 12:24
Great post I like these discussions. I've raced both in F3 and motard classes, and currently race a motard. If you are on a non-motard bike in F3, motards are a pain to race with (and vice versa really) cause motard's take such different lines (or at least can). You'll be committed in a corner knee down straining for the exit to get momentum onto the straight, and a motard stops on a dime squares the corner off and cuts you off! You then blitz them on the straight, only to find another one stopped dead in the next corner. Conversly if you are on a motard, you pass this F3 road race bike in the corners, then have 'em blast by on the straight, and you have to pass 'em again in the corner...it can all get a bit hairy and the red mist descends easily.

When I was racing my RGV, motards were allowed in F3.

Fair enough I thought, so I fronted up to race in the motard race too at the same event with my RGV, as at the time motard could race in both their own motard class and F3. I got told to f-off (nicely). So really I don't race administrators have handled to motard growth and accommodated them very well (there are clubs that have though, this is a generalisation).

In the meantime what bike to race in F3 is a disaster. $20k at least to compete on a high maintenance beasty. Great fun if you can afford it. To win you need $30k. It is road racing, but I think F1 and F2 are enough high costs classes for this country...just my opinion.

In the meantime motards grew heaps over the last decade and were going well and then they were banned (not all clubs) from F3 so they have gone and started doing their own thing (e.g. Taupo motard series, cart track racing etc).

The solution? I think, scrap F3, and go do this; www.450moto.com

Still not super cheap but economies of scale would kick in, and in the end motard bikes are ready built race bikes which SV650s, ZXR400s, RGV250s etc etc just aren't.

In the meantime all bikes are cool! If I could I'd have 20 bikes in me garage, from R1 to Goldwing, to Harely to RS250GP bike to ATV.

Quasievil
20th September 2009, 12:38
I Have only one thing to say.........MOTARDS RULE
:2guns:

george formby
20th September 2009, 12:44
Go the wee bikes! I like to do big miles but I also love twisty roads, wide bars & sitting up. A motard is about the only thing that would pass my TDM on the twisties, thats ok, I will get past at the next petrol station. The sport in "sportsbike" means just that. You need a track to really ride them properly. As for racing, one day, on something cheap & rideable for an old bugger like me.

slowpoke
20th September 2009, 15:03
As for racing, one day, on something cheap & rideable for an old bugger like me.


From one ol' bugger to another: have I got a deal for you!

Crazy Steve
20th September 2009, 15:21
After giving Raj a ride on the 60HP KTM single Thursday night; Raj tells me that it's kinda like cheating to use it.

After 20km on his Yammy I was already over it: no knocks on Raj, I just don't like modern sport bikes on the road; they don't deliver without doing supersonics on the straights to make up what they lost in the corners. I reckon most would be quicker on twins and singles.

I reckon almost everyone who buys a Yamazukikawondaducrilia 1198GSXR!Z1CBRRRRRRR thinks they're 'cheating' too. They seem to think that these things will give them the 'edge' they need.

That's the hype; the R1, GSXR, 1198 etc etc are the fastest, the lightest and the best handling proddy superbikes out there and, by implication, nothing can touch them.................until a bike with 1/3rd of the HP comes along and 'cheats' them out of the title

Cheating? Nah Raj, just smart

The dumasses in F3 seem to think the same thing: Motards banned because of handlebar height; how farkin ridiculous was that jackass regulation! Dump more than half the entries because a bunch of whiners on gutless old jappa 4's don't like losing to chook chasers.

Lets see, you could buy an old jappa 4, spend an extra 20k on making it go fast and be fragile and still get your ass kicked by the 'cheats' on 16k chook chasers or you could just get smarter and buy one too!

That said, acknowledgement to the few modern road bikes that can win F3: Glen on the Zuki in particular but perhaps the Cagiva 650 Raptor would be even better. Seems to me motards in F3 would be cheaper too. They come standard with better suspension to start with and the next 10-15% HP can be liberated merely with airbox mods and a remap. No, they'll never do it onPuke but who cares?
Hey, maybe someone could spend u[p large and win on Hyosung 650!




Unless your being chased by a Fat guy on a Hayabusa around the loop and you still cant leave him behind on the tight twisite stuff and said Fat guy had super shagged Tyres ! !

Dont agree with you Mr Breen, I think the right rider Cough Cough ! ! Will make you and your motard look stupider than normal....

Crazy Steve.

Marmoot
20th September 2009, 16:34
fast in slow corners.

it's some kind of oxymoron, isn't it?

If you can ride it fast then the corner is not a slow corner anymore; It's a fast corner.

Sidewinder
20th September 2009, 18:44
I Have only one thing to say.........MOTARDS RULE
:2guns:

they suck! but crash well and alot............:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh :

koba
20th September 2009, 18:52
I'm constantly suprised that no-one has set one up as a dedicated road race bike.

There are a few out there. The Gilera 125 framed BMW 650 engined one qualifed first at round one, I felt sick watching him as he stalled on the grid and couldn't restart without rollers...



Dont agree with you Mr Breen, I think the right rider Cough Cough ! ! Will make you and your motard look stupider than normal....


The road is not a measure of skill at all because it pretty much comes down to who is prepared to take the biggest risks.

Gremlin
20th September 2009, 19:03
it's some kind of oxymoron, isn't it?

If you can ride it fast then the corner is not a slow corner anymore; It's a fast corner.
quit bringing logic into this! :shit:

I'm middle of the road... I've had sportsbikes, lost the license, needed to slow down and not take such a casual attitude to 200kph +

Some motards are impractical tho, the SXV550 getting only 80km before reserve, and boy was the seat like 4x2. The 690sm is more like it, but gets disgustingly good fuel economy. Still a bit underpowered for my liking tho, and thought I would get bored on it (a bad thing).

Enter supermotos... vtwin, 115hp ish, wheelstands whenever you want, not so good fuel economy, but I can do the long rides like Grand Challenge etc. :love:

Quasievil
20th September 2009, 19:21
The 690sm is more like it, but gets disgustingly good fuel economy. Still a bit underpowered for my liking tho, and thought I would get bored on it

I dont, I think its perfect amount of grunt for the road. Heaps of grunt to pass cars and perfect managable amount for twistys, not so much to get you into trouble.
Loving mine, want pipes tho

idleidolidyll
20th September 2009, 20:01
It's true, it's true. Traditional racebike geometry makes a bike harder to ride fast in slow corners. And it makes my legs hurt.

And all of NZ's back roads and about two-thirds of the Taupo Motorsport Park count as 'slow corners'. And my legs hurt enough as it is without riding cramped motorcycles.

What sort of tank range do you get on your KTM, Idle?

how long is a piece of string?

12 litres lasts me 130-220kms

someone said 690smc's are economical: that person obviously doesn't ride like me

my beemer F800S is way more economical

idleidolidyll
20th September 2009, 20:04
I kind of agree with ya.....and I kind of don't.

You don't realise just how few corners there are under 120kph on the open road and how far apart they are until you've ridden a motard on the road. Sure, they're great over the 'taka's or such like but roads like that are few and far between. I loved my 'berg 650 over the 'taka's but I hated riding there, even from just outside M'boro....then there's having to fill up every 110km's or so, run expensive 5-40w oil and biff it every 500km's etc etc

The problem with motards is that the practical ones are mostly gutless, heavy wannabe's and the really fun ones are totally impractical.

But I reckon they'd be perfect for F3. I'm constantly suprised that no-one has set one up as a dedicated road race bike. 120ish kg's, 60hp, good suspension components, what's not to like?

i totally disagree

i ride on the road all the time and long distances too

i rarely have trouble 'keeping up'

those sport bikes just don't get to go 250kph everywhere or if they do, the riders licences are soon requested by the long arm

idleidolidyll
20th September 2009, 20:07
Unless your being chased by a Fat guy on a Hayabusa around the loop and you still cant leave him behind on the tight twisite stuff and said Fat guy had super shagged Tyres ! !

Dont agree with you Mr Breen, I think the right rider Cough Cough ! ! Will make you and your motard look stupider than normal....

Crazy Steve.

you don't really think i was doing anything more than staying ahead do ya steve?

i find it gets pretty boring riding by myself; i prefer playing rear view mirror games

idleidolidyll
20th September 2009, 20:10
on the same ride a certain zooki rider (not steve) told people he got bored and passed me.

true, he did.

that was after all the twisties though once the road became suitable for speeds my ktm could never do (and i'm not interested in doing)

all the previous roads had him falling steadily behind

carver
20th September 2009, 20:32
they suck! but crash well and alot............:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh :

i kinda agree.
the 690 is a good engine, but the tank range on my old sm and slow top speed ment getting away from the law was too hard.
Im faster on my gixxer than on the SM, maybe not quite in the tight stuff though.
Sportsbikes give the best all round package.

remember, you have to ride the motart to the twisties first

tarted up chook chasers

slowpoke
20th September 2009, 20:34
i totally disagree

i ride on the road all the time and long distances too

i rarely have trouble 'keeping up'

those sport bikes just don't get to go 250kph everywhere or if they do, the riders licences are soon requested by the long arm

What species katoom are ya ridin'?

I hear ya re the sportsbikes.....but I'm not convinced re the motards. But it all boils down to how you define a motard doesn't it?

Does it have to be competitive at say, racing at Wanga's with the dirt section? Is it any bike with a set of high bars? Is there a weight limit? I mean does strapping a set of bars on an SV650 make it a motard? How is it technically any different to an SXV550?

For what it's worth, any bike that encourages a "sporting" style of riding could be considered a sportsbike couldn't it? There's just different ways of going about getting from point A to point B in a timely manner.

carver
20th September 2009, 20:35
What species katoom are ya ridin'?

I hear ya re the sportsbikes.....but I'm not convinced re the motards. But it all boils down to how you define a motard doesn't it?

Does it have to be competitive at say, racing at Wanga's with the dirt section? Is it any bike with a set of high bars? Is there a weight limit? I mean does strapping a set of bars on an SV650 make it a motard? How is it technically any different to an SXV550?

For what it's worth, any bike that encourages a "sporting" style of riding could be considered a sportsbike couldn't it? There's just different ways of going about getting from point A to point B in a timely manner.

give me a naked twin anyday..

ducati streetfighter would have a good go at owning both

carver
20th September 2009, 20:44
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Quasievil
20th September 2009, 21:15
give me a naked twin anyday..

ducati streetfighter would have a good go at owning both



Then that depends on who is riding it eh, i.e SXV Daryl Atkins vs the Top 5 Sportsbikes in the robert holden (based on actual lap times of the days racing, D.A didnt run the Robert holden but had he he would have been about 5-6th from memory) at Wangas was a fairly convincing effort for Motards.

A Ducati Naked with a moderate to good rider would certainly get cleaned up in any reasonably attended motard race at say Taupo track, and would get eaten at a street race.

But what would I know, Ive owned "the few" with 50 hp vs three times that, and Im not even that good

Shorty_925
20th September 2009, 21:40
Motards are one of best classes here in NZ if only there were more places to race...

A local club put on a hillclimb and motards were all at the sharp end.

As for the road riding side of things, never had a motard to ride on the road. Ive ridden sports bikes and theyre fun but not nearly as much fun, both on the track and road

Leyton
20th September 2009, 21:49
Motards ftw. Idol, my DRZ400 had about 39hp and it would annihililate ANY sportsbike on scenic drive, It was bliss :Punk:

I done scenic drive today, and I beleive you!! Greasey fricken scenic drive
! the R6 handled like a pig as per normal through the very tight odd corners!

I would not mind a motard myself for a play :) Just a low one though so I can touch the ground :P

Thani-B
20th September 2009, 22:06
on the same ride a certain zooki rider (not steve) told people he got bored and passed me.

true, he did.

that was after all the twisties though once the road became suitable for speeds my ktm could never do (and i'm not interested in doing)

all the previous roads had him falling steadily behind

and the gn wasnt too far behind.. *cough*. I think a day time ride with a box so I can hop up on it and someone waiting to catch me when I stop is in order...

Kiwi Graham
20th September 2009, 22:07
I've had an SM620 KTM and an SM650 Burg, The Burg was mental but I loved it,. High maintenance costs and a little temperamental. The KTM was an excellent commuter scoot making every trip a blast.

Gremlin
21st September 2009, 00:26
someone said 690smc's are economical: that person obviously doesn't ride like me
Devil used to own Quasi's 690sm... Devil and I compared notes, he was doing 13L ish for over 200, I was struggling to 200 on 15L.

Down to the way you ride it tho :innocent: Triple X kept offering to put the lower gear restrictions back on, suggested I do less wheelies etc, but I thought it a silly idea :laugh:

I had a 690 prestige overnight while the 990sm was in the shop at one point... yep, not quite wild enough for me. Bit of a hoot, but didn't have that scary edge I needed to be entertained.

SixPackBack
21st September 2009, 05:35
I done scenic drive today, and I beleive you!! Greasey fricken scenic drive
! the R6 handled like a pig as per normal through the very tight odd corners!

I would not mind a motard myself for a play :) Just a low one though so I can touch the ground :P

Practice grasshopper, practice!..........R6 is lovely bit of kitt.

carver
21st September 2009, 06:52
Then that depends on who is riding it eh, i.e SXV Daryl Atkins vs the Top 5 Sportsbikes in the robert holden (based on actual lap times of the days racing, D.A didnt run the Robert holden but had he he would have been about 5-6th from memory) at Wangas was a fairly convincing effort for Motards.

A Ducati Naked with a moderate to good rider would certainly get cleaned up in any reasonably attended motard race at say Taupo track, and would get eaten at a street race.

But what would I know, Ive owned "the few" with 50 hp vs three times that, and Im not even that good

you should have tried your luck last sun!:done:
i was on a whale!

on the road (where it counts) a sportsbike will always eat a tarted up chook chaser in the long run

Firefight
21st September 2009, 06:58
I done scenic drive today, and I beleive you!!
! the R6 handled like a pig as per normal through the very tight odd corners!

:P



are u sure its set up right ? R6 normally like so tight an responsive, like riding on train tracks .. tighter the beta ! has it been set up for you properly ?


F/F

Quasievil
21st September 2009, 07:26
you should have tried your luck last sun!:done:
i was on a whale!



There was a trackday on Sunday?

Jantar
21st September 2009, 07:54
..... on the road (where it counts) a sportsbike will always eat a tarted up chook chaser in the long run
Interesting that on the last CC 1000 miler, two "Chook Chasers" (DL1000s)completed the course hours ahead of most sports bikes. Now that is on the road where it counts.

Leyton
21st September 2009, 08:44
has it been set up for you properly ?
F/F

Not yet but I will look into the next track day and get some serious help with it :)

I have adjusted preload and that's it so far.

carver
21st September 2009, 17:52
There was a trackday on Sunday?

The best track starts at the end of your driveway


Interesting that on the last CC 1000 miler, two "Chook Chasers" (DL1000s)completed the course hours ahead of most sports bikes. Now that is on the road where it counts.

Tarted up touring bikes

Fatjim
21st September 2009, 17:56
Motards don't rule down here. The only place they'd really stand a chance would be the Piecock hill or down the Rimutukas. Everywhere else you'd just get be getting to the pub after every one else has already pissed all over the toilet seat.

speedpro
21st September 2009, 18:43
As for racing, one day, on something cheap & rideable for an old bugger like me.

That would be a bucket you are thinking of, eh? Get yourself a JCR 150 Honda twin.

Quasievil
21st September 2009, 18:52
The best track starts at the end of your driveway





particularly if your primary goal is to become a statistic, and your riding behaviour promotes that end goal..............mine doesnt so I keep it for the track, more fun anyway

carver
21st September 2009, 18:55
particularly if your primary goal is to become a statistic, and your riding behaviour promotes that end goal..............mine doesnt so I keep it for the track, more fun anyway

good boy.
both are dangerous....
my primary goal is to be the greatest gay motorcyclist since elvis

Rodney007
21st September 2009, 19:00
good boy.
both are dangerous....
my primary goal is to be the greatest gay motorcyclist since elvis

rofl
whats this bout a ktm going faster than an 08 R1 round coners ?!?!?!?!

idleidolidyll
23rd September 2009, 19:37
rofl
whats this bout a ktm going faster than an 08 R1 round coners ?!?!?!?!

that depends on the coners doesn't it

idleidolidyll
23rd September 2009, 19:42
summiv yoo fink dis iz abowt ryderz und egoz

itt aynt, itz abowt lite bykes wif goode spenderz annd jus enuf powa.

Carver cood goh farsta thann Carver onna motard rownd mosta them 'conas'

evin uh kripled fatt old barstid lyke mi cann doo itt betta onna motard!

Thani-B
23rd September 2009, 23:52
summiv yoo fink dis iz abowt ryderz und egoz

itt aynt, itz abowt lite bykes wif goode spenderz annd jus enuf powa.

Carver cood goh farsta thann Carver onna motard rownd mosta them 'conas'

evin uh kripled fatt old barstid lyke mi cann doo itt betta onna motard!


Man its hard to read when you write like that...

merv
24th September 2009, 08:06
my primary goal is to be the greatest gay motorcyclist since elvis

You've seen the movie Roustabout where Elvis decked the little Honda then? He was a biker for sure.

carver
24th September 2009, 21:04
You've seen the movie Roustabout where Elvis decked the little Honda then? He was a biker for sure.

no i have not!before my time!