Why is all popular music in 4/4 time?

[Molly]

Every band right now is shit. Don't you feel like you've just heard it all before? The faces change but the music is just about interchangable. And how come it's always in 4/4 time? Would it kill them to give something else a try?

Bah humbug. I must be getting old... :Punk: Where's me slippers?

[Motu]

Relax with some Jethro Tull and try to keep track with his timing.

[98tls]

Dont much like the new stuff meself,yep im an old bugger to,must say i dont mind Kings of Leon or at least the few songs ive heard,as for 4/4:doh:no idea what that is mate sorry.

[Hans]

You need to stop listening to pop "music" then. Plenty of good stuff out there.
And there's a thread somewhere on here wit "music you think others might like"

[James Deuce]

Because you can dance to it.

A lot is in 2/4, and there is a reasonable pool of 6/8 and 3/4 too. All of those are relatively easy to dance to as well.

Every 10 years or so a decent song in 5/4 slips into the charts as well.

Musicians crave diversity.

Partygoers like engaging simplicity.

One of those options makes money.

[98tls]

Because you can dance to it.

A lot is in 2/4, and there is a reasonable pool of 6/8 and 3/4 too. All of those are relatively easy to dance to as well.

Every 10 years or so a decent song in 5/4 slips into the charts as well.

Musicians crave diversity.

Partygoers like engaging simplicity.

One of those options makes money. :doh:Can you explain the 2/4,4/4 5/4 thing D?I love my music as much as the next person but no idea what this stuff means.

[Hans]

:doh:Can you explain the 2/4,4/4 5/4 thing D?I love my music as much as the next person but no idea what this stuff means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_(music)#Polymeter

Long talk explaining, listen to the samples, that should explain itself...

[fridayflash]

i like 4/4 timing myself, but thats the old rockin rythm & blues
influences.
having said that..it always catches my ear when its a different time
signature and often on bass i like to 'double them up'

[James Deuce]

All music is divided mathmatically into sections. The basic building block is the "bar".

4/4 is a bar comprised of 4 crotchet notes (sometimes called quarter notes - quarter of a 4/4 bar) counted as 1 2 3 4. All bars comprise divisions of notes.

5/4 means we are counting 5 crotchets per bar. Another common "odd" time signature is 7/8.

Quavers are eighth notes and you have to fit twice as many of them into the same space as a crotchet.

When you hear someone counting "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" they are accenting the crotchet notes with real numbers and using the "and" to describe the quaver in between. So 4/4 can be counted "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" or if we wrote it as 8/8 "1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8". At a given number of beats per minute a bar of 4/4 and a bar of 8/8 take the same length of time.

2/4 is "1 and 2 and", 3/4 is "1 and 2 and 3 and" (waltz time) but even though 6/8 takes the same amount of time to play as 3/4 at a given number of beats per minute, we play it very differently to 3/4. Waltz time is quite rigid, or staccato, where 6/8 is legato or smooth and the 1 and 4 (remember when counting as quavers we count "1 2 3 4 5 6" for 6/8) is usually accented to give a 6/8 feel more space.

If you like A Perfect Circle, "Judith" is one of the best 6/8 songs I've ever heard and remains a personal favourite, simply because that group of musicians nails the 6/8 feel to floor.

Never Loved a Man by Aretha Franklin demonstrates another way to make 3/4 work without sounding "square", like a Strauss waltz.

Reggae in 4/4 played Drop style is another cool way of screwing with 4/4. The rhythm section effectively ignores the "1", giving Drop its loping feel.

[Usarka]

Popular music is in 4/4 because 4/4 is popular.

[riffer]

Popular music is in 4/4 because 4/4 is popular.


well maybe. But IMO it's because they have a formula for popular manufactured music, and it fits around 4/4 at 105-120 bpm.

[gatch]

Listen to nearly any song by "tool", I know some basic music factoids, but their time signatures elude my comprehension..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbFrl9wLBA

[Hans]

Yeah, Iron Maiden's also a good one for not figuring out.

[98tls]

All music is divided mathmatically into sections. The basic building block is the "bar".

4/4 is a bar comprised of 4 crotchet notes (sometimes called quarter notes - quarter of a 4/4 bar) counted as 1 2 3 4. All bars comprise divisions of notes.

5/4 means we are counting 5 crotchets per bar. Another common "odd" time signature is 7/8.

Quavers are eighth notes and you have to fit twice as many of them into the same space as a crotchet.

When you hear someone counting "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" they are accenting the crotchet notes with real numbers and using the "and" to describe the quaver in between. So 4/4 can be counted "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" or if we wrote it as 8/8 "1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8". At a given number of beats per minute a bar of 4/4 and a bar of 8/8 take the same length of time.

2/4 is "1 and 2 and", 3/4 is "1 and 2 and 3 and" (waltz time) but even though 6/8 takes the same amount of time to play as 3/4 at a given number of beats per minute, we play it very differently to 3/4. Waltz time is quite rigid, or staccato, where 6/8 is legato or smooth and the 1 and 4 (remember when counting as quavers we count "1 2 3 4 5 6" for 6/8) is usually accented to give a 6/8 feel more space.

If you like A Perfect Circle, "Judith" is one of the best 6/8 songs I've ever heard and remains a personal favourite, simply because that group of musicians nails the 6/8 feel to floor.

Never Loved a Man by Aretha Franklin demonstrates another way to make 3/4 work without sounding "square", like a Strauss waltz.

Reggae in 4/4 played Drop style is another cool way of screwing with 4/4. The rhythm section effectively ignores the "1", giving Drop its loping feel. I understand plenty about the workings of motorcycles but this is still a mystery,heres a clip from one of my all time favourite bands,so what / is this?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1vmPGiL-0c

[Fatt Max]

I've been listening to a lot of Frank Zappa lately, now there's a challenge....

4/4 is the most basic of time signatures and is the easiest to use. Music should not be complicated for the sake of it (remember that '80's band called It Bites, they were fucking ridiculous and it added nothing to the music).

Feel it in your heart and soul what ever the key signature may be.

Good observation though and some equally fascinating responses.

You clever lot you.....

[James Deuce]

4/4.

The guitar is basically strumming 1+2+3+4+ accenting the + of 1 and 2, and accenting 4 to give it it's off-beat feel.

[gammaguy]

get thee to thy nearest retailer or----ahem----download provider,of all things electronic.theres drum and basssss,breaks,trance,techno,house(which admittedtly has got real boring lately)and some very good ENZED dub and roots.

Thats just for starters,and soon you wont even remember where The Edge:mellow:or ZM :laugh:are on thy dial.

:Punk:

[Fatt Max]

4/4.

The guitar is basically strumming 1+2+3+4+ accenting the + of 1 and 2, and accenting 4 to give it it's off-beat feel.

Just listening to Stevie Ray Vaughan doing that right now funny 'nuff

[98tls]

4/4.

The guitar is basically strumming 1+2+3+4+ accenting the + of 1 and 2, and accenting 4 to give it it's off-beat feel.
Cheers,making a point of trying to get this but:doh:Will perservere.

[James Deuce]

Listen to nearly any song by "tool", I know some basic music factoids, but their time signatures elude my comprehension..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbFrl9wLBA

Lateralus was originally called "987" because the song shifts between 9/8, 8/8, and 7/8. The syllables of the lyrics form the first few numbers of the Fibonacci sequence in ascending and descending order, and 987 is the 17th number of the Fibonacci sequence (Fn = Fn-1+Fn-2 seeded by F0=0 and F1=1) which gave Tool a major geek out, so they timed the lyrics to start 97 seconds in or 1.618 of minute which is the Golden Ratio - The Golden Ratio is used in architecture, design, and can be used as an "irrational" constant to describe beauty.

For instance the perfect female figure is often described around a hip to waist ratio measurement of 1.618 - though this is probably a little beefy for modern tastes.

[ducatilover]

Yeah, Iron Maiden's also a good one for not figuring out.

That is because Iron Maiden rule.

[James Deuce]

Just listening to Stevie Ray Vaughan doing that right now funny 'nuff

Yes - he does it best while playing in 12/8 though.

[paddy]

Cheers,making a point of trying to get this but:doh:Will perservere.

Try counting out loud: "one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and". Do it over and over in time with the beat. With the speed of the song you should get through "one-and-two-and-three-and" every second or so. Don't overthink it though. Just try and feel it. Perhaps try tapping your foot and then counting with that.

[McJim]

Brass Band test pieces. 11/8, 13/8, 1/8, 7/4....you name it - some pieces have weird time sigs all over the place. Makes The Rite of Spring look like twinkle twinkle little star.

Sorry - I was trained classically so I talk about orchestral repertoire n'shit.

As I've always said "Popular does not neccessarily mean good" this is true of music as well as Suzukis. :Pokey:

[paddy]

From two completely different genres:

Andrew Lloyd Webber
Jeff Buckley

Both are know for being quite "eclectic" with time signatures.

I never knew Tool were so well "educated". Having said that Brian May has a PhD in Astrophysics so who am I to talk.

[James Deuce]

Brass Band test pieces. 11/8, 13/8, 1/8, 7/4....you name it - some pieces have weird time sigs all over the place. Makes The Rite of Spring look like twinkle twinkle little star.

Sorry - I was trained classically so I talk about orchestral repertoire n'shit.

As I've always said "Popular does not neccessarily mean good" this is true of music as well as Suzukis. :Pokey:
Snob.

Always remember that popular doesn't necessarily mean, "beneath notice of the cognoscenti".

I hope you don't mean Suzuki method cos that would not be cool.

[McJim]

Snob.

Always remember that popular doesn't necessarily mean, "beneath notice of the cognoscenti".

I hope you don't mean Suzuki method cos that would not be cool.

I like Lady Gaga....most orchaestral musicians listen to pop, rock, punk, techno and other stuff - I know I do. How many pop stars can tell Stravinsky from Bach from Mozart from Holst? The snobbery is all one way these days and the classical musicians are the ones left out in the cold. :cold:

[paddy]

I like Lady Gaga....

What about her music?

[Laxi]

I like Lady Gaga....

troll :bleh::laugh:

[StoneY]

Brass Band test pieces. 11/8, 13/8, 1/8, 7/4....you name it - some pieces have weird time sigs all over the place. Makes The Rite of Spring look like twinkle twinkle little star.

Sorry - I was trained classically so I talk about orchestral repertoire n'shit.

As I've always said "Popular does not neccessarily mean good" this is true of music as well as Suzukis. :Pokey:

Nice point on the music- but dude popular is not BAD its the mean taste of the wider populace, get over it :P
Metallica played with the Frisco orchestra to shut folk like you down :2guns:

And whats wrong with Suzuki's?
Fellow Italian owners as we are, I seriously doubt either Ducati I have owned (and own) will be anywhere near as solid as my GixxeR is when they're 20 ;)

[James Deuce]

I never knew Tool were so well "educated". Having said that Brian May has a PhD in Astrophysics so who am I to talk.

That's educated with a capital "E", especially Danny Carey. I memorised that little story above because it meant the spotty youths who came to me for lessons would listen for evermore and it helped make them appreciate that a theoretical basis to their drumming knowledge would allow the ability to express themselves a great deal more freely in future. I also hoped that it would make them sit up straight and listen in pure maths class.

[McJim]

Nice point on the music- but dude popular is not BAD its the mean taste of the wider populace, get over it :P
Metallica played with the Frisco orchestra to shut folk like you down :2guns:

And whats wrong with Suzuki's?
Fellow Italian owners as we are, I seriously doubt either Ducati I have owned (and own) will be anywhere near as solid as my GixxeR is when they're 20 ;)

Why the fuck would Metallica want to shut a metal head like me down? I used to listen to shitloads of Whitesnake, Metallica, Motorhead, Slade, Rush, Def Leppard, Guns n Roses....oh, sorry that's right. You just saw "Classically trained" and the fucken snob in you came out to play.

Q.E.D.

Well done. As you were.

[James Deuce]

How many pop stars can tell Stravinsky from Bach from Mozart from Holst?

I call snob! You might be surprised. I know I have been by the few "stars" I've met.

[Fatt Max]

Yes - he does it best while playing in 12/8 though.

Oh I say, typical drummer you...

Bling awarded for being a muso god and mentor my old trout n toolbox...

[98tls]

As I've always said "Popular does not neccessarily mean good" this is true of music as well as Suzukis. :Pokey: :doh:Must be why after owning a few Ducatis i gave up on "clatter clatter" and went back to some ole fashioned "thump thump".<_<

[James Deuce]

troll :bleh::laugh:

He has a point though. There is something intoxicating about a hermaphrodite in a unitard.

[Fatt Max]

He has a point though. There is something intoxicating about a hermaphrodite in a unitard.

Yep, and they can all go and fick themselves......not that funny, eh!

[Hahn]

Every band right now is shit. Don't you feel like you've just heard it all before? The faces change but the music is just about interchangable. And how come it's always in 4/4 time? Would it kill them to give something else a try?

Bah humbug. I must be getting old... :Punk: Where's me slippers?

This fellow knows the answer to your question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM

[Laxi]

Nice point on the music- but dude popular is not BAD its the mean taste of the wider populace, get over it :P
Metallica played with the Frisco orchestra to shut folk like you down :2guns:

And whats wrong with Suzuki's?
Fellow Italian owners as we are, I seriously doubt either Ducati I have owned (and own) will be anywhere near as solid as my GixxeR is when they're 20 ;)


Why the fuck would Metallica want to shut a metal head like me down? I used to listen to shitloads of Whitesnake, Metallica, Motorhead, Slade, Rush, Def Leppard, Guns n Roses....oh, sorry that's right. You just saw "Classically trained" and the fucken snob in you came out to play.

Q.E.D.

Well done. As you were.
have to go wiyh mcjim on this 1, s&m was more about challenging "metal heads" perceptions of classical than "the snobs" ideas of metal

[StoneY]

Why the fuck would Metallica want to shut a metal head like me down? I used to listen to shitloads of Whitesnake, Metallica, Motorhead, Slade, Rush, Def Leppard, Guns n Roses....oh, sorry that's right. You just saw "Classically trained" and the fucken snob in you came out to play.

Q.E.D.

Well done. As you were.

LOL fair cop on that one :laugh:

So were half our rock hero's, but do re-read your initial whinge (yes fuck ya, 'metalhead' WHINGE) and you'll see why I felt so compelled to take my stance

And Def Leppard are POP, plastic jacket hair extension treble loaded formula- band eeeeew:jerry::jerry::jerry::jerry:

And the excuze for the Suzuki bashing>??????
:doh:

[McJim]

And the excuze for the Suzuki bashing>??????
:doh:
I need an excuse for bashing Suzukis? WTF?

Hint: It's coz there's so many of them. 'scalled ironic humour I only mean about 5% of what I say on KB....even that might be generous
:rofl:

[sinfull]

4/4 is two lots of 2/2 and 2/2 is the same as a human heart beat ! You can change emotion mood and energy with changing the speed of a heart beat ! These days ppl who market music know that music with a fast heart beat sells !!!
I blame the crack !!!!!

[paddy]

That's educated with a capital "E", especially Danny Carey. I memorised that little story above because it meant the spotty youths who came to me for lessons would listen for evermore and it helped make them appreciate that a theoretical basis to their drumming knowledge would allow the ability to express themselves a great deal more freely in future. I also hoped that it would make them sit up straight and listen in pure maths class.

Funny you mention pure math - we are just bidding on a project that would see me working alongside a guy with a PhD in Pure Math (Graph Theory). Me thinks I'm going to feel a little less intelligent than perhaps I normally tend to....

[James Deuce]

Funny you mention pure math - we are just bidding on a project that would see me working alongside a guy with a PhD in Pure Math (Graph Theory). Me thinks I'm going to feel a little less intelligent than perhaps I normally tend to....

Nahhh. He's just a meatbag with some skills you don't have, but could have if you just put the money and time into it.

Besides, if he behaves like one of the cast of "Big Bang Theory" you could be up for some major fun.

[gatch]

Funny you mention pure math - we are just bidding on a project that would see me working alongside a guy with a PhD in Pure Math (Graph Theory). Me thinks I'm going to feel a little less intelligent than perhaps I normally tend to....

Just a skill set you don't have.. Knowledge does not necessarily dictate intelligence.

[98tls]

:doh:Bugger me,think i will just go back to enjoying my music regardless of equations.:laugh:Understanding the world can wait.

[sinfull]

:doh:Bugger me,think i will just go back to enjoying my music regardless of equations.:laugh:Understanding the world can wait.
Yep who was it that sung that one that had 99 bottles in it ??

[98tls]

Yep who was it that sung that one that had 99 bottles in it ?? No idea,i do however vividly remember 99 Luftballoons........or at least 2 balloons:shifty:Actually i have to admit i fucked up,old age sucks,got it wrong,was thinking of a set of different balloons.

[98tls]

:done:Got the right Balloons.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2dLa2Efu20

[sinfull]

:done:Got the right Balloons.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2dLa2Efu20 Nah they were cool but them ballons got beat this year !!!

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[98tls]

Nah they were cool but them ballons got beat this year !!! Yea mate,given a choice though i know which ones i would feast on.

[sinfull]

Yea mate,given a choice though i know which ones i would feast on.Yeah aye !! She was one of my favorites too !! Loved the braces, like them things accentuated them puppies !!! Could play mummas and pappas all night long (i say night, cause pappa could fuck off to the pub all night and leave mamma to feed lil ol me)

[James Deuce]

Why do I feel like eating a ham sandwich when I look at those?

[MSTRS]

Dont much like the new stuff meself,yep im an old bugger to,must say i dont mind Kings of Leon or at least the few songs ive heard,as for 4/4:doh:no idea what that is mate sorry.

No-one's really explained it in simple terms. If the music has a regular beat, that is easy to dance to, then chances are it's 4/4. It may also be any other time signature, as well. However, musos like to mix up the time signatures ... then you will find that, despite the beat, you are continually finding yourself out of time to the music. Try dancing to Pink Floyd...

[86GSXR]

I understand plenty about the workings of motorcycles but this is still a mystery,heres a clip from one of my all time favourite bands,so what / is this?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1vmPGiL-0c

Good to see Seven Mary Three get a look in. American Standard is still an all time great :rockon:

[CookMySock]

Every band right now is shit. Don't you feel like you've just heard it all before? The faces change but the music is just about interchangable. And how come it's always in 4/4 time? Would it kill them to give something else a try? You are listening to the wrong radio station.

http://www.1.fm/Station/X/Default.aspx

http://www.181.fm/playing.php?station=181-power

If that doesnt't suit you, go to http://shoutcast.com/ and have a rummage.


Steve

[eelracing]

:doh:Bugger me,think i will just go back to enjoying my music regardless of equations.:laugh:Understanding the world can wait.

Could'nt agree more,all this talkn' is doin my head in.

Bon and the boys explain it heaps better...:headbang:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsEHH0cDwHw

[Krayy]

<snip>
If you like A Perfect Circle, "Judith" is one of the best 6/8 songs I've ever heard and remains a personal favourite, simply because that group of musicians nails the 6/8 feel to floor.

Guitar Hero 5, FTW!!

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/xbox/games/159181.Guitar-Hero-5/reviews/133873.Guitar-Hero-5/page2/

[imdying]

Because you can dance to itThis :yes:

Simple side to side dancing, quick quick slow, any more complicated steps, are all easily slotted into that timing.

[StoneY]

I need an excuse for bashing Suzukis? WTF?

Hint: It's coz there's so many of them. 'scalled ironic humour I only mean about 5% of what I say on KB....even that might be generous
:rofl:

On ya Jim
Peace
:shifty:

[Big Dave]

well maybe. But IMO it's because they have a formula for popular manufactured music, and it fits around 4/4 at 105-120 bpm.

You should be so lucky. Lucky, lucky, lucky. You should be so lucky in love.

[Dean]

You need to stop listening to pop "music" then. Plenty of good stuff out there."

Yea im glad many people dont listen to pop music. What if O.J simpsons wife listened to la roux - "This time maybe Ill be Bullet Proof" :rofl:

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Sorry that was harsh and dry.:pinch: