Two-stroke website, worth a look

[Armitage Shanks]

And well worth a visit too .... if only to add a bit of balance...for the guys that have'nt been there yet ...try http://twostrokemotocross.com/

Hope the link commutes to the site , if not maybe someone else , enjoy .

[Armitage Shanks]

And well worth a visit too .... if only to add a bit of balance...for the guys that have'nt been there yet ...try http://twostrokemotocross.com/

Hope the link commutes to the site , if not maybe someone else , enjoy .

My first time at pasting a link and it seems to have worked !

Pheew ....<_<

[flyingcr250]

My first time at pasting a link and it seems to have worked !

Pheew ....<_<

cool site, interesting read about the whole 4t VS 2t thing

[B0000M]

very interesting. pretty much just says what we all know though

[scott411]

ok i love 2 strokes as much as anyone and have done more than anyone else to make sure they are still raced here in NZ, but that site has some stuff on it that is like a 9/11 conspircy site,

the history of 4 stroke has massive holes in it, and leaves a heap out, the YZ400 was not the first competitive 4 stroke in the modern era, just the 1st mass produced japanese one, the Husqy 610 that Jackie Martins won the 1992 World 500 Champs was, then the Husabergs and KTM 4 strokes came next,

they state that Yamaha got the rules changed to allow the big 4 strokes in, that rule had been around for about 5 years before that, and Lance Smail had qualified for AMA races on KTM 4 strokes for a while (his one was 620cc) and even Mike Healey had qualified for the Daytona SX night show (not the main event) on a modifed XR400,

the AMA did allow an exemption for the factory's to race a prototype bike for 1 year each, KTM did it with Smail in 95, Yamaha with Doug Henry in 97 (he won the 98 title on a Production based machine, Honda used there exemption to test the CRF450 in 01 with Ryan Hughes, Kawi and Suzuki never used theirs,

and in NZ, and USA amatuer racing now 250 2t's race 250F's, and the 250F's dominate,

the truth is the 4 storkes are easier to ride, and more fun for a lot of people, and the sales figures show it, it is over 10-1 4 stroke MX 250cc bikes sold compared to MX 250 2t bikes sold, Honda has not made any 2 stroke for a while, Kawasaki has stopped as well, Suzuki has a token effort going, unless these bikes start selling they will stop as well,

[cheese]

If you feel like mucking about with EFI, you could get a microsquirt unit. Looks ideal for making a EFI 2 stroke!

But anyway, if KTM have already built it, why isn't it in production!!!!

[scott411]

not sure why 2 stroke injection has never taken off in dirt bikes, both kawasaki and yamaha have the Direct injection technoligy, they use it on there jet ski's and outboard motors, adn KTM are rumoured to have test it,

i have heard that it takes a lot of power to run the DI system, and that a single cylinder may not generate enough to make it vaible, although the KTM 2t electric starts seem to charge the battery so maybe there is answers,

[barty5]

not sure why 2 stroke injection has never taken off in dirt bikes, both kawasaki and yamaha have the Direct injection technoligy, they use it on there jet ski's and outboard motors, adn KTM are rumoured to have test it,

i have heard that it takes a lot of power to run the DI system, and that a single cylinder may not generate enough to make it vaible, although the KTM 2t electric starts seem to charge the battery so maybe there is answers,


yes but from a lot of people i have spoken to their charging system also fail quite a lot. apart from wickedly over $$ battery you have to have to fit.

[scott411]

yes but from a lot of people i have spoken to their charging system also fail quite a lot. apart from wickedly over $$ battery you have to have to fit.

i have heard the same thing, could be something in it, a full charging system could pull a lot of torque out of a two stroke,

[B0000M]

, but that site has some stuff on it that is like a 9/11 conspircy site,


it did kinda give me that impression as well!<_<

[Armitage Shanks]

it did kinda give me that impression as well!<_<

Conspiracy theories aside, I still wonder why the big 4 were in such a hurry , or hastened to hurry and move to delete the 2 Strokes and clear them from their lineup, specifically the Open class machines.

Yamaha and Suzuki were the first to drop the RM500 and YZ490 , thankfully Honda and Kawasaki continued with their venerable CR and KX 500's until 2001 and 2004 . Why were they dropped ?

The Kawasaki 2004 Brochure Lineup does'nt even include the KX500 , last model, which was available on special order only ..go figure. I'm lucky to still have the brochure ...and the Bike .<_<

[cheese]

America is 1/3 of the dirtbike market. Many places have virtually banned 2 strokes cause of emissions, so that doesn't help. Plus most people jump on a 4 stroke and are faster than on a 2 stroke, so it all comes down to sales and American bullshit.

Interesting point on power required to drive EFI - but injectors only draw around 5a max and the electronics would be bugger all. So if they were smart about it they could easily run it. After all my old MB50 2 stroke road bike ran a lighting coil and charged a battery. A typical headlight on scooter even probably draws more current than a EFI system. I'd say it hasn't come out because its easier to just leave things as they are on 2 strokes and sell more 4 strokes because that is what the market wants.

Its going to take a gamble from one of the bike companies to make a DI 2stroke that will be competitive against the 4 strokes, but its still going to have unfair competition when you race a 250 against a 450. Or have they upped the capacity like the 144's that can race against the 250 4s?

[scott411]

Conspiracy theories aside, I still wonder why the big 4 were in such a hurry , or hastened to hurry and move to delete the 2 Strokes and clear them from their lineup, specifically the Open class machines.

Yamaha and Suzuki were the first to drop the RM500 and YZ490 , thankfully Honda and Kawasaki continued with their venerable CR and KX 500's until 2001 and 2004 . Why were they dropped ?

The Kawasaki 2004 Brochure Lineup does'nt even include the KX500 , last model, which was available on special order only ..go figure. I'm lucky to still have the brochure ...and the Bike .<_<

if we put the 500 into perspective, in the 4 years previous to 2004, they sold 10 new KX500's in NZ, (and i got 2 of them), in the last year (2004) they sold 12, people stopped buying them, and that is what stopped building them, unfortunalty for my personal beliefs, the same has happened to 125's and 250's 2t's

[That Guy]

The article on the site on displacement comparison doesn't make sense to me. It calls for 250 two strokes to race with 250 4 strokes- - the theory is that it is unfair for a 450 4 stroke to be up against a 250 2 stroke because their displacements are different. I thought one of the reasons a two stroke could roughly perform the same as a larger, even twice capacity 4 stroke, was that the 2 stroke has a big advantage by making power even second stroke, ie twice as often as a 4. The site ignores this point.

Why bother with the conspiracy theory? 2 strokes and 4 strokes who cares they're all cool. Look at KTM they are selling plenty of 2ts.

[cheese]

250 2stroke and a 450 4stroke isn't apples for apples. just because a 2 stroke has twice the strokes doesn't mean its the same power.

[noobi]

yamaha dont seem to be rolling over just yet...

http://www.fullnoise.com.au/new_products/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_full&product_id=167&cfid=6049066&cftoken=32169364&dts=209200925852


theoretically a 2 stroke could make twice the power of a 4 stroke, due to having twice as many power strokes. but reliastically this doesnt happen. due to mechanical friction, tune, mechanical wear etc...

[barty5]

America is 1/3 of the dirtbike market. Many places have virtually banned 2 strokes cause of emissions, so that doesn't help. Plus most people jump on a 4 stroke and are faster than on a 2 stroke, so it all comes down to sales and American bullshit.

Interesting point on power required to drive EFI - but injectors only draw around 5a max and the electronics would be bugger all. So if they were smart about it they could easily run it. After all my old MB50 2 stroke road bike ran a lighting coil and charged a battery. A typical headlight on scooter even probably draws more current than a EFI system. I'd say it hasn't come out because its easier to just leave things as they are on 2 strokes and sell more 4 strokes because that is what the market wants.

Its going to take a gamble from one of the bike companies to make a DI 2stroke that will be competitive against the 4 strokes, but its still going to have unfair competition when you race a 250 against a 450. Or have they upped the capacity like the 144's that can race against the 250 4s?

you go on about people being faster on a 4 over a 2 but you still ride a 2 have you really had a full day and given a 4 a real ride with an open mind rather than just a quick blast or just sticking with 2 are better cause ive got one ????

[Reckless]

sell more 4 strokes because that is what the market wants.

I reckon it because its because they wanted the market to want them!
If you where the CEO of say Yamaha and some greeny jumped on the fact that 2 strokes produce more pollution it was a golden opportunity for them! 4 strokes produce way more revenue for them and especially their dealer network in parts, labour & maintenance etc as apposed to the do it yourself 2 stroke! Its a no brainer "lets move the market to 4 strokes!! So they did, and we have what we have today!

That being said Scott is quite correct you can jump on a four stroke 250 as a newbie and because of the power delivery ride it easier than a 2 stroke. That was another thing in the development of 2 strokes that went against them. They got tooo powerful! You don't need the power of a 500, not even a 250 2T. That bike comparison I keep posting up proves it, most where fastest on the little 200exc than even their own 4 stroke 450, so you don't need all that power to go fast. And that counted against the 2 smoker when 4 strokes came out! The smoother power delivery. I'll say it again you can make the 2 stroke do anything you want with pipes, fly wheel weights and porting. They just recognized that developing four strokes was much more lucrative for the company.
The market is rebelling a bit now as no one wants your old four stroke because its like a car done 200,000k its fucked! Not like the smoker, new barrel or gearbox bearings and goes for another 2 years! So people are turning back to 2 strokes for a bit more fun factor and the DYI maintenance. Thank god for Ktm and especially their 300 and 200. As Ktm gets more and more market share the others will wake up. But the horse will have bolted and Kawasaki guys like me will be now loyal to Ktm. My 200 is a really good bike for woods riding and you very seldom hear any bad about the 300exc. Ktm sold 25,000 2 strokes in 2008.

They will investigate and initiate Direct injection in some form or other. I have seen the power curves on the net for 450 4T vs 450 2T. They have settled the 450 2T down the give same sort of torque and power curve as the 4T but just more. So IF it takes off you will get a 450 2T that has a tractable power curve like a 4T but more power as a 2T. Whether you can do a new piston on this new fangled thing every 100 hours remains to be seen??? If they put as much time and effort into the 2T as they have the 4T over the last 5 years we'd have it by now. But its just simply not as good a return for the japs, hopefully Ktm will lead the way as rumored??
The Japs don't have to do it now as they are selling way enough bikes not to have to bother and what they are selling is far better for them in terms of revenue. I'm not being anti 4 stroke if I was the CEO of Honda it would be a no brainer to move in that direction! But you can't tell me a few 2 stroke MX bikes are causing global pollution?

Will be an interesting next few years I reckon!

[Buddy L]

I always thought that peak power on the 125-2/250-4 and 250-2/450-4 classes were about the same with just the 4stroke a more usable and rideable power/toque curve?? (which makes them easyer to ride fast), in the MX state of tune.

If one could ride a 2stroke in its peak power range (not dropping in and out producing wheel spin ) then i see now reason why they shouldn't be competive.

I say long live the 2stroke..... But im glad i have small bore 4stroke for the riding that i do. (at the moment anway)

[cheese]

you go on about people being faster on a 4 over a 2 but you still ride a 2 have you really had a full day and given a 4 a real ride with an open mind rather than just a quick blast or just sticking with 2 are better cause ive got one ????

I have had a good few rides on some 4 strokes, more than a quick blast too. I like them don't get me wrong. Nice bike different riding style that takes some getting used to.

The general opinion out there is that your average rider will be faster on a 4 stroke. This is general opinion and just a personal observation. I don't go on about it. I know I'd recommend someone gets a 250 4 over a 125. But I'd also recommend a 200 2 stroke over a 250 4 stroke. Why? I think that they are easier on the wallet. The average Joe will take a bike to a shop for a piston kit and get stung $700 + (ring around see what you get quoted!)

When I got my CR, I test rode alot of bikes and took a long time to choose what I got and what I could afford. The CR was the best bike for the money at the time, I didn't have the budget for a new bike or a 4stroke of a reasonable age. Also when i worked out what I'd pay for servicing, the 2 stroke made more sense to me.

So I'll be sticking to the 2 stroke for quite some time. Or should I upgrade just cause you have one?:bleh::bleh:

[barty5]

I reckon it because its because they wanted the market to want them!
If you where the CEO of say Yamaha and some greeny jumped on the fact that 2 strokes produce more pollution it was a golden opportunity for them! 4 strokes produce way more revenue for them and especially their dealer network in parts, labour & maintenance etc as apposed to the do it yourself 2 stroke! Its a no brainer "lets move the market to 4 strokes!! So they did, and we have what we have today!

That being said Scott is quite correct you can jump on a four stroke 250 as a newbie and because of the power delivery ride it easier than a 2 stroke. That was another thing in the development of 2 strokes that went against them. They got tooo powerful! You don't need the power of a 500, not even a 250 2T. That bike comparison I keep posting up proves it, most where fastest on the little 200exc than even their own 4 stroke 450, so you don't need all that power to go fast. And that counted against the 2 smoker when 4 strokes came out! The smoother power delivery. I'll say it again you can make the 2 stroke do anything you want with pipes, fly wheel weights and porting. They just recognized that developing four strokes was much more lucrative for the company.
The market is rebelling a bit now as no one wants your old four stroke because its like a car done 200,000k its fucked! Not like the smoker, new barrel or gearbox bearings and goes for another 2 years! So people are turning back to 2 strokes for a bit more fun factor and the DYI maintenance. Thank god for Ktm and especially their 300 and 200. As Ktm gets more and more market share the others will wake up. But the horse will have bolted and Kawasaki guys like me will be now loyal to Ktm. My 200 is a really good bike for woods riding and you very seldom hear any bad about the 300exc. Ktm sold 25,000 2 strokes in 2008.

They will investigate and initiate Direct injection in some form or other. I have seen the power curves on the net for 450 4T vs 450 2T. They have settled the 450 2T down the give same sort of torque and power curve as the 4T but just more. So IF it takes off you will get a 450 2T that has a tractable power curve like a 4T but more power as a 2T. Whether you can do a new piston on this new fangled thing every 100 hours remains to be seen??? If they put as much time and effort into the 2T as they have the 4T over the last 5 years we'd have it by now. But its just simply not as good a return for the japs, hopefully Ktm will lead the way as rumored??
The Japs don't have to do it now as they are selling way enough bikes not to have to bother and what they are selling is far better for them in terms of revenue. I'm not being anti 4 stroke if I was the CEO of Honda it would be a no brainer to move in that direction! But you can't tell me a few 2 stroke MX bikes are causing global pollution?

Will be an interesting next few years I reckon!


have to say i disagree with a lot of this workin on a 4t is no harder than a 2t and in some ways easyer when you start getting in to mearsuring gasket to get port hights correct etc etc. You dont have this prob with a 4t just rebuild it with what it comes with easy the sitting down with pen paper and workin that shit out a some have seen on our rebuilds at workshop.

As for the oooh its done a heap a hours throw it away or ooh its a 2t lets just stick a new barrel on it there is no reason this can not be done with a 4t. Hell was only 4 years ago i was running a fully rebuilt 1983 tt600 that still went hard no reason and it will happen that people will not continue to do this to modern 4ts. As for the 2t who know parts are more likely to become harder and harder to find as they get older as people tend to give up on the easyer when the shit them selfs from what ive seen seams easyer to flick them off more trashed 2t on trade me than 4ts

And youu can say what you want cause yes i ride a 4t but have you really given a 4t a good trash beat you would be a faster rider.

[cheese]

have to say i disagree with a lot of this workin on a 4t is no harder than a 2t and in some ways easyer when you start getting in to mearsuring gasket to get port hights correct etc etc. You dont have this prob with a 4t just rebuild it with what it comes with easy the sitting down with pen paper and workin that shit out a some have seen on our rebuilds at workshop.

As for the oooh its done a heap a hours throw it away or ooh its a 2t lets just stick a new barrel on it there is no reason this can not be done with a 4t. Hell was only 4 years ago i was running a fully rebuilt 1983 tt600 that still went hard no reason and it will happen that people will not continue to do this to modern 4ts. As for the 2t who know parts are more likely to become harder and harder to find as they get older as people tend to give up on the easyer when the shit them selfs from what ive seen seams easyer to flick them off more trashed 2t on trade me than 4ts

And youu can say what you want cause yes i ride a 4t but have you really given a 4t a good trash beat you would be a faster rider.

Its no harder for you because you do that shit every day. HEAPS of people pay for alot of their bike servicing. To get a rebuild in a 4 stroke is twice the price. I know, I rang around 6 different shops to get prices when i was thinking about getting a 4 stroke.

As for durability, I know its fuckloads of money to get a new set up for a 4 stroke the shits itself - Look at what Kezza paid for the parts on his 450 after it sucked a bit of mud up the breather pipe. If that was a 2 stroke it wouldn't have been an issue. 4 strokes cost more, its a fact.

But as it goes for any bike at all. Look after it right and it will look after you.

[barty5]

I think that they are easier on the wallet. The average Joe will take a bike to a shop for a piston kit and get stung $700 + (ring around see what you get quoted!)


So I'll be sticking to the 2 stroke for quite some time. Or should I upgrade just cause you have one?:bleh::bleh:

that is not what im sayin it a fact most who own a 2t just bag the 4t cause they dont have one or havnt had a good go on one.
as for takin one in to a shop compared to being able to fix your self too many people doubt there abilty to be able to work on a 4t they are piss easy. Most people who work on there 2ts do so lookin at a manual hell the 4t manual is still done in english not that hard just a couple a xtra movin parts and i can say as i can see the trade costs online that parts for a piston rebuild are not that more more at all given time time difference in how oftern they need to be done its just the shops (dealer) charge a shit load more cause they think they can.


Example replaced a crank pulley on a ford territory today rang ford $930 retail trade $790 sweet rang aftermarket supplier cost $250 Rrp $440 and guess what when i picked it up the fucken thing was stamped with ford logo's on came from the same factory just a dealer charging a shit load more cause they call it genuine

[barty5]

Its no harder for you because you do that shit every day. HEAPS of people pay for alot of their bike servicing. To get a rebuild in a 4 stroke is twice the price. I know, I rang around 6 different shops to get prices when i was thinking about getting a 4 stroke.

As for durability, I know its fuckloads of money to get a new set up for a 4 stroke the shits itself - Look at what Kezza paid for the parts on his 450 after it sucked a bit of mud up the breather pipe. If that was a 2 stroke it wouldn't have been an issue. 4 strokes cost more, its a fact.

But as it goes for any bike at all. Look after it right and it will look after you.

I only know what i know cause i refused to pay anyone to work on my bike after payin some one and it shit it self 2 weeks later so a self taught myself shit i didnt even do that well at school so im sure if i can learn it lots a others could to its all in the mind

[Rupe]

I only know what i know cause i refused to pay anyone to work on my bike after payin some one and it shit it self 2 weeks later so a self taught myself shit i didnt even do that well at school so im sure if i can learn it lots a others could to its all in the mind


I agree that they aren't as hard as people make out,

When 2t gears failed you help me pull it down and I rebuilt it on my own at home from split cases, sure I made a couple of phone calls but I followed a manual and it really wasn't that hard.

When I brought a 4t I rebuilt the top end, changed the cam chain, checked the valves, at home, all from a manual. And it took a litlle while, but it was easy. I also self taught myself to service forks, and I'm just teaching myself to re-valve them at the moment. If you have something to work from it's easy, and doesn't have to be expensive.

You shouldn't be scared of working on 4t's, or 2t's, just get some good info and take your time. Then neither of them are that expensive.

As for the 4t vs 2t, most people spout bullshit about both, and haven't ridden enough to comment. The fact is most moden quality bikes are very good, and once you get used to yours you like more than you mates cos his feels strange as it has different bars, or hard seat etc.

[B0000M]

As for the 4t vs 2t, most people spout bullshit about both, and haven't ridden enough to comment.

i've ridden both enough to comment. but i wont.

[barty5]

i've ridden both enough to comment. but i wont.

yes we all know which way you swing

[green machine]

Funny how alot of 2 stroke riders constantly bag 4 strokes on here(it's like groundhog day),at the end of the day we all ride what we like and personally i don't give a monkeys what anyone else rides as long as i'm happy riding mine.

[Reckless]

Let me make it clear I don't mind four strokes, I just don't think the manufacturers have given 2 smokers a fair deal. The only place I can see that I've come close to bagging them, is saying that after a few years they are more fucked than the 2 smoker. I'd love to see Direct injection take off and 2T and 4T race against each other again, whoever wins! I've re read my post and don't see it as a big bag of 4T's, just history as I see it. Even if it is a bit one eyed its not a big put down of the 4T! I do own a CRF.

[green machine]

My comment wasn't really aimed at your post.....just an observation of various threads and disscussion on here over the years...............

[cheese]

I agree that they aren't as hard as people make out,

When 2t gears failed you help me pull it down and I rebuilt it on my own at home from split cases, sure I made a couple of phone calls but I followed a manual and it really wasn't that hard.

When I brought a 4t I rebuilt the top end, changed the cam chain, checked the valves, at home, all from a manual. And it took a litlle while, but it was easy. I also self taught myself to service forks, and I'm just teaching myself to re-valve them at the moment. If you have something to work from it's easy, and doesn't have to be expensive.

You shouldn't be scared of working on 4t's, or 2t's, just get some good info and take your time. Then neither of them are that expensive.

As for the 4t vs 2t, most people spout bullshit about both, and haven't ridden enough to comment. The fact is most moden quality bikes are very good, and once you get used to yours you like more than you mates cos his feels strange as it has different bars, or hard seat etc.

Personally if I had a 4 stroke i would DIY, but many people don't.

Just because you guys feel comfortable with it doesn't mean others do.

Anyway this is a retarded argument.

[charles23]

Funny how alot of 2 stroke riders constantly bag 4 strokes on here(it's like groundhog day),at the end of the day we all ride what we like and personally i don't give a monkeys what anyone else rides as long as i'm happy riding mine.

...ditto...

[kezzafish]

this conspiracy theory stuff is mad. Reckless i don't get how you beleive that company's stopped dropped 2Ts for the money they could make on 4t parts. I know i say this taking the piss sometimes but I seriously think it's obvious that they dropped 2ts because the 4ts were faster on the track... simple as. If they hadn't got on board and put all the money into developing the 4, they would have been left behind by those that did

[B0000M]

because the 4ts were faster on the track... simple as. If they hadn't got on board and put all the money into developing the 4, they would have been left behind by those that did

are they though?

typically the first 4 stroke in racing down here is in 3rd place

a lot of the better riders around still prefer 2 strokes

[Pierce]

are they though?

typically the first 4 stroke in racing down here is in 3rd place

a lot of the better riders around still prefer 2 strokes

Tell you what i'd like to see, James Stewart riding a YZ250 in the outdoors:2guns: Love to see him own all those 450's with vintage machinary haha.

[Armitage Shanks]

are they though?

typically the first 4 stroke in racing down here is in 3rd place

a lot of the better riders around still prefer 2 strokes

Still does'nt answer the question; why not fit the 250 2t's in with the 4 stroker 250's ? If Four strokes were that clever, and that fast...and everyone raves about them, it should be horses for courses. Same with the 400's class where the 250 oil burners are bracketed against . Everyone knows a YZ250 makes double the hp of a 250 four stroke... , and sounds a lot better to boot. Seems the odds are stacked and a hint of favoritism toward the 4 strokes to boot ...mildly put....

[green machine]

Oh bugger it,i'm gettin me a 2 stroke ASAP..................it seems my bike is a slow piece of crap!!!

[vr4king]

I maybe wrong here but didnt they pit the 250 2t against the 2504t in last years national series

And if memorie serves me right a 2504t took it out in that class

Still remember watching one of the kings on the cr250 up local track..........looked and sounded like heaven

[B0000M]

Still does'nt answer the question; why not fit the 250 2t's in with the 4 stroker 250's ? If Four strokes were that clever, and that fast...and everyone raves about them, it should be horses for courses. Same with the 400's class where the 250 oil burners are bracketed against . Everyone knows a YZ250 makes double the hp of a 250 four stroke... , and sounds a lot better to boot. Seems the odds are stacked and a hint of favoritism toward the 4 strokes to boot ...mildly put....

im quite happy to race 450s on my 250, let them think they have an 'advantage' racing 250 4t's is a waste of time except for the occaisonal exceptionally good rider

[scott411]

Still does'nt answer the question; why not fit the 250 2t's in with the 4 stroker 250's ? If Four strokes were that clever, and that fast...and everyone raves about them, it should be horses for courses. Same with the 400's class where the 250 oil burners are bracketed against . Everyone knows a YZ250 makes double the hp of a 250 four stroke... , and sounds a lot better to boot. Seems the odds are stacked and a hint of favoritism toward the 4 strokes to boot ...mildly put....

In NZ the 250 2t's and 4t's run together, the first year 9 out of 10 were 250F's in the finish, (2 riders started out on 250's 2t's but swapeed to 250F's before the end, only Shayne King was in teh top 10 on a 2 smoker, in the second year it was the same deal, only Dk was in the top 10 on a 2 smoker,

in the US amatuer racing, a 250 2t can run in either the 250 class, or the 450 class, Malcolm Stewart (James's little brother) ran a 250 2t in the 450 class to some top 3 finishers in 08, and a couple of guys got top 10;s in the 250 classes this year,

a STD 250F puts out around 35 hp at the rear wheel, where a std 250 2t about 43-45, but the 250F has a much wider powerband and alot more torque off the bottom, very few people can ride a 250 2t quicker around a race track for 20 minutes than a 250F,

[B0000M]

a STD 250F puts out around 35 hp at the rear wheel, where a std 250 2t about 43-45, but the 250F has a much wider powerband and alot more torque off the bottom, very few people can ride a 250 2t quicker around a race track for 20 minutes than a 250F,

then to add more variables into the mix, on a more open track the bigger power will pull through, whilst on a tight track -eg supercross or a tighter mx track the extra 10hp wont make any difference.

[scott411]

and condition matters as well, in muddy sonditions 2t's are easier to ride as they are lighter and do not have the engine breaking which weights the front wheel, also sand is good for 2t's.

but then hard pack is better for 4 strokes as the smoother power makes a difference,

[B0000M]

maybe we should all just get 3 strokes... :2thumbsup

[charles23]

In NZ the 250 2t's and 4t's run together, the first year 9 out of 10 were 250F's in the finish, (2 riders started out on 250's 2t's but swapeed to 250F's before the end, only Shayne King was in teh top 10 on a 2 smoker, in the second year it was the same deal, only Dk was in the top 10 on a 2 smoker,

in the US amatuer racing, a 250 2t can run in either the 250 class, or the 450 class, Malcolm Stewart (James's little brother) ran a 250 2t in the 450 class to some top 3 finishers in 08, and a couple of guys got top 10;s in the 250 classes this year,

a STD 250F puts out around 35 hp at the rear wheel, where a std 250 2t about 43-45, but the 250F has a much wider powerband and alot more torque off the bottom, very few people can ride a 250 2t quicker around a race track for 20 minutes than a 250F,

ha ha shot down 'boom', thanks for the expert information Scott.

[B0000M]

ha ha shot down 'boom', thanks for the expert information Scott.

how am i shot down? i just said it depends on the track.

[charles23]

how am i shot down? i just said it depends on the track.

revert your earlier comments, blah blah blah

[Armitage Shanks]

In NZ the 250 2t's and 4t's run together, the first year 9 out of 10 were 250F's in the finish, (2 riders started out on 250's 2t's but swapeed to 250F's before the end, only Shayne King was in teh top 10 on a 2 smoker, in the second year it was the same deal, only Dk was in the top 10 on a 2 smoker,

in the US amatuer racing, a 250 2t can run in either the 250 class, or the 450 class, Malcolm Stewart (James's little brother) ran a 250 2t in the 450 class to some top 3 finishers in 08, and a couple of guys got top 10;s in the 250 classes this year,

a STD 250F puts out around 35 hp at the rear wheel, where a std 250 2t about 43-45, but the 250F has a much wider powerband and alot more torque off the bottom, very few people can ride a 250 2t quicker around a race track for 20 minutes than a 250F,

Good call, Scott4 .....and I bet they could'nt punt a 500 2t any faster round a track, problem with the big girls is cornering , come to a corner fast and you have to think about the mass of the huge crank spinning fast which inhibits you're ability to corner fast ( Centrifugal Issues ). Once you're round the corner though, click 2nd gear and you're gone Baaaarp !...Big problem is you have the next corner to worry about if you're riding a 500 ...with over 65 HP at the crank and 100kg.

Then comes the wheelspin and wheely problem, but ....as someone said before, who cares what you ride ...It's all about fun ........:2thumbsup






Good

[yokel]

pretty much the only reason we have these 4 stroke mx bikes is the displacement rules (loophole) back in the day, with some hindsight it should have been changed to stop these loud,heavy and expensive bikes to get a foot hold.
Instead we got all this BS about emissions and what not and 4 strokes are the way to go.

I tried the 4 stroke thing, mainly because I couldnt be arsed mixing gas, not one of my best life choices lol.
also got sucked in with all that easy to ride power, now I know better.

I remember a simpler time when all there was were the 125s and 250s ( sorry 500s were before my time)

[green machine]

I tried the 4 stroke thing, manly because I couldnt be arsed mixing gas, not one of my best life choices lol.
also got sucked in with all that easy to ride power, now I know better.



Like i said previously........Groundhog day,another 2 stroker bagging 4 strokes

[Armitage Shanks]

Like i said previously........Groundhog day,another 2 stroker bagging 4 strokes

No bagging from me mate, it's a shame though that there's not many 500's around anymore so it's all words etc.

Nice to have a squirt on Sunday after many months in the shed though, KX500 ( 04 ) , top gear, roll on the throttle and the wheel heads for the sky at over 100 kmh. Far out ...been a while , crazy power ...= what a rush :2thumbsup

[green machine]

No bagging from me mate, it's a shame though that there's not many 500's around anymore so it's all words etc.

Nice to have a squirt on Sunday after many months in the shed though, KX500 ( 04 ) , top gear, roll on the throttle and the wheel heads for the sky at over 100 kmh. Far out ...been a while , crazy power ...= what a rush :2thumbsup
Haha,yes that would be a rush.....

[Armitage Shanks]

Haha,yes that would be a rush.....

Cheers Green and here's a pic of my '04 ...in '04 ...

[green machine]

Nice one mate......what a Beast(the bike i mean)i admit to being a little biased though:2thumbsup

[yokel]

Like i said previously........Groundhog day,another 2 stroker bagging 4 strokes

I dont mind the bikes them selfs, and the people that ride them are OK I guess??

Its just the impact they have on the sport thats gets me all revved up.
the first thing is they are loud and that gets unwanted attention from people that dont like loud things so puts pressure on riding areas.
and while the 4 strokes are great for new people to ride( I'm of the opinion that 4ts dumbs down the riding skill some what and thats what the manufactures like about them) but to own one is different story, someone new will need lots of cash or be an instant expert bike mechanic.

[Armitage Shanks]

Nice one mate......what a Beast(the bike i mean)i admit to being a little biased though:2thumbsup

Thanks Mate, that pic was taken when the big KX was brand new, Zero Hours and I was about to have the first ride ..Had the PC Pipe fitted off my old '97 KX500 . Now running a Gnarly Pipe and V-Force Reed kit along with the Moose frame guards, Answer bars and etc, ...should be like close to 70 Hp's crank now and still weighs around 100kg dry. Take it easy ....:wacko:

[yokel]

Well was thinking how cool my old wr 500 was and started to have bad thoughts about putting an old yz 490/wr 500 motor in a new frame and then come across this! holy shit yeah!

weight is 97kgs

back in the day I use to think it was cool to see XR's motors shoe horned in to 2 stroke MX frames, funny how things have turned :2thumbsup

[Armitage Shanks]

Well was thinking how cool my old wr 500 was and started to have bad thoughts about putting an old yz 490/wr 500 motor in a new frame and then come across this! holy shit yeah!

weight is 97kgs

back in the day I use to think it was cool to see XR's motors shoe horned in to 2 stroke MX frames, funny how things have turned :2thumbsup

Cool pics Yokel...had a WR500 myself for a year or so ...white with blue graphics, the MK2 model, last one made, traded it on a new KX5 in '97 and.....from memory got around $4K for it and the KX was , new, around $8500 ...best trade I ever did...:eek5: