Scared to ride

[Maki]

The way things are I am scared to ride a pushbike. I feel much more in control of my destiny when I am on a motorcycle. If you are on a pushbike you are not traveling at the same speed as the flow of traffic and there is no throttle to twist to get you out of trouble.

I actually think that you are safer on a motorcycle than on a pushbike, at least of your ride cautiously. Would you agree? I suppose statistics will show much higher rates of death and injury for motorcycles than for pushbikes but I still think motorcycling is safer in a way.

I know it ain't going to happen but would it not be fair that cyclists pay an ACC levy for doing what they do?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10599817

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10599851

[Grahameeboy]

The way things are I am scared to ride a pushbike. I feel much more in control of my destiny when I am on a motorcycle. If you are on a pushbike you are not traveling at the same speed as the flow of traffic and there is no throttle to twist to get you out of trouble.

I actually think that you are safer on a motorcycle than on a pushbike, at least of your ride cautiously. Would you agree? I suppose statistics will show much higher rates of death and injury for motorcycles than for pushbikes but I still think motorcycling is safer in a way.

I know it ain't going to happen but would it not be fair that cyclists pay an ACC levy for doing what they do?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10599817

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10599851

I agree and we stop at red lights so safer

[NighthawkNZ]

Hope the ACC form says push bike accident and not motorcycle... if not no wonder our ACC is so high

(Havng never claimed ACC in 16 years of riding I wouldn't no but I guess there is a box for push bike)

I think the cyclists have to wear the same safety gear as us, have daytime running lights and ACC (same amout as us as it a high risk) hell why they are at it even rego levies as the are using the road.


See I feel sorry for the cyclists as does the rest of the country... bet if the car took out three motorcyctlists under the same circumstances most of NZ would be saying bloody hoon motorcyclists even though it wasn't there fault... and the car ran a stop sign...And I wonder why that is...

[mowgli]

"It's my firm belief that if they can't close a road for an hour early in the morning..."
That about sums up the cyclist attitude to road use :spanking:

[marty]

fuck here we go again.

i'll pay ACC levies for cycling when rugby/league/soccer/netball/tennis/rowing/motorcross riders etc start too.

oh that's right, i already pay 1.3% ACC earner levy in my PAYE. how much more do you suggest?

[crazyhorse]

Be safer for all if cyclists rode single file - not think that they own the road, and push the cars and motorcyclists into the path of oncoming vehicles.

And they wonder why cars drive into them...... hmmmmmmm :2guns:

[Maki]

fuck here we go again.

i'll pay ACC levies for cycling when rugby/league/soccer/netball/tennis/rowing/motorcross riders etc start too.

oh that's right, i already pay 1.3% ACC earner levy in my PAYE. how much more do you suggest?

Oh yes, bring it on. I am a firm believer in levying and taxing those who engage in a brutal sport like thugby to the hilt. Why should the public pay for unnecessary injuries incurred while they risk their necks playing a game?

[Grahameeboy]

Be safer for all if cyclists rode single file - not think that they own the road, and push the cars and motorcyclists into the path of oncoming vehicles.

And they wonder why cars drive into them...... hmmmmmmm :2guns:

Agree cyclists think they can do what they like...dogs are registered...cars are...bikes are...maybe cyclists should be...

[Grahameeboy]

Oh yes, bring it on. I am a firm believer in levying and taxing those who engage in a brutal sport like thugby to the hilt. Why should the public pay for unnecessary injuries incurred while they risk their necks playing a game?

Non-fault dude...means the Country can do what it likes and not be accountable for outcomes silly...that's NZ today

[crazyhorse]

Agree cyclists think they can do what they like...dogs are registered...cars are...bikes are...maybe cyclists should be...

Maybe there should be a rode code for cyclists :killingme:

[Laxi]

Non-fault dude...means the Country can do what it likes and not be accountable for outcomes silly...that's NZ today

the problem is that if ACC turned around and slaped a levey on rugby clubs, the same people that complain about them not paying ACC, would just start complaining about the "nana state"

[Grahameeboy]

Maybe there should be a rode code for cyclists :killingme:

There is....

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/about-other-road-users/information-for-cyclists.html

[Grahameeboy]

the problem is that if ACC turned around and slaped a levey on rugby clubs, the same people that complain about them not paying ACC, would just start complaining about the "nana state"

That's NZ today as I said...how NZers can complain about a Nana State here of all places is just head in sand stuff eh

[NighthawkNZ]

Non-fault dude...means the Country can do what it likes and not be accountable for outcomes silly...


and that is why ACC is flawed

[Grahameeboy]

and that is why ACC is flawed

I agree..............my Daughter would be better off under ACC...I certainly think that ACC should penalise drink drivers....sport..well...the injuries are not quite so pre meditated

[h_tron]

i definately agree with motorbikes being safer then push bikes. when i crashed my 250 a few years back, i came out better off then when i crash my bmx at lower speed. in saying that i did have all my gear on when riding the 250.
maybe cyclist should swap lycra for leather?:eek:

[rosie631]

On the ACC topic, when I worked in emergency we used to be full up every Saturday with bloody rugby players. These guys would use up way more ACC money than motorcyclists. Does anyone know if there is an ACC component to their club dues. Bet there fuckin isn't.

[Maki]

On the ACC topic, when I worked in emergency we used to be full up every Saturday with bloody rugby players. These guys would use up way more ACC money than motorcyclists. Does anyone know if there is an ACC component to their club dues. Bet there fuckin isn't.

Make them pay is what I say.

[YellowDog]

I do both in and large amounts. I sorry to say that human life has a low value and cyclist seem to be fair game.

If you ride cautiously, then of course motorcycling is safer than a bicycle.

It's the equivelent safety difference of comparing riding a motorcycle to driving a car.

[James Deuce]

ACC and the MoT don't collect bicycle accident data transparently.

MVA data is scrutinised in detail. Bicycle accidents are all over the place. Bicycles and Pedestrians make up a third of all road deaths and injuries.

Ban them.

[st00ji]

only course of action remaining to us is to abolish ACC and spend the money developing a surrogate system like in that new bruce willis movie!

[Thaeos]

Why are cyclists even allowed on the roads in the first place. It would be safer for them and other road users if they were restricted to the footpaths. I dare say there would not be a hell of a lot of danger to people just walking on the footpath compared to the situation with cyclists on the road.

[Maki]

Why are cyclists even allowed on the roads in the first place. It would be safer for them and other road users if they were restricted to the footpaths. I dare say there would not be a hell of a lot of danger to people just walking on the footpath compared to the situation with cyclists on the road.

Cyclists have every right to use the road. If they did not ride like muppets and car drivers showed proper consideration there would not be a problem. Have you ever tried to use a push bike as a mode of transport and only use the footpath? You might as well not bother, it is just too inconvenient and difficult.

[SMOKEU]

It's obvious that a push bike is far safer than a motorbike. I ride my push bike really drunk quite frequently and have never injured myself on it while drunk. How long do you all think I'd last on my CBR if I rode that pissed before I fuck myself up?

[Big Dog]

On the one hand bicycles are the predecessor to motorcycles and have been entitled to use the roads longer than we have had internal combustion engines. On the other hand it is wrong that we cannot remove the rights of road rule abusers to continue with their freedom.

I do not support banning bicycles on the road, I do support licensing bicycles. Question is how and how do we police it?

[funky monkey]

It's obvious that a push bike is far safer than a motorbike. I ride my push bike really drunk quite frequently and have never injured myself on it while drunk. How long do you all think I'd last on my CBR if I rode that pissed before I fuck myself up?

Not sure but maybe you should go find out
Seeing you will get done for drink driving riding your push bike you muppet

[dynamite]

I have to agree with licensing. We pay bigger regos than cars, higher ACC I guess. Push bikes and 50cc scooters dont need wofs and 90 persent of people that ride them have know idea if they are falling apart or not, they might not have brakes etc, this is a big danger. I would be interested in seeing a brake down of what cyclist accidents are made up of by age, gender etc. If we give them an option (Push bikes on 50s), ride on footpath with no rego or wof and a 10km speed limit, this means they are no more dangerous to pedestrians than a skateboarder, rollerblader etc. Or if people do want to use the roads for commuting, make them wear proper protective gear, have a rego and wof and licence, that if they are running reds, ride dangerously etc will lose them their car licence as well the same as us. This means that kids dont lose the experience of riding bikes, they can still ride to school etc (and from what i have seen most of that age use the footpaths anyway), but we dont have these people on bikes on the wrong side of the road coming down port hills at 60kph, well not once they lose there licence and have to go to work on the foot path anyway. To police this there will have to be a change in attitude of the police and the public, at the moment a (although not legally correct) a cyclist is "always in the right" when was the last time you herd of a cyclist having to pay to fix a car they damaged when they were in the wrong. They claim they are road users too but they dont want to take any of the responsibility of a road user, so for the people that want to ride them on our roads, make them take the responsibility that the rest of us have.

[red675]

pedestrians wear no protective gear and after dark are usually invisible - I do not think pushing faster traffic onto footpaths would be a good idea at all

[R6_kid]

I've recently started riding a 20km commute on a push bike twice a week.

Am I scared? No.

Am I more aware of the dangers that are presented to me. Yes.

I ride a lot more cautiously, and funnily enough put into use a lot of the 'defensive driving' techniques that I learnt on the DD course, and also the content we teach at RRRS.

I frequently ride with the flow of traffic when it allows (30-40km on flat, and up to 55-60km on the downhill), but keep my wits about me and I'm always looking for a 'safe spot', if there isn't one then I don't take my chances.

It's not hard to decrease the risks presented to you if you are actively looking for them all the time, and that is how it should be whether you are in a car, on a motorbike, cycling or walking. Perhaps if people focussed more on what they were doing there would be less accidents?

Become complacent and you'll quite probably become dead, or at least very sore in the near future.

[modboy]

I know it ain't going to happen but would it not be fair that cyclists pay an ACC levy for doing what they do?


Reason they don't is cos overall the benefits of cycling to overall health pay the health service back many times over - cyclists are less likely to be diabetic, obese (and related diseases) heart problems etc etc etc.

What is needed is for this dumb countrys administration to provide proper cycle lanes (as is the case in most of Europe) and stop making cagers the priority on our roads.

But ... yea, I feel safer on my Triumph than I do on the Condor (my pushbike).

PS - licensing of cycles is a complete fucking over-reaction - a symptom of a ridiculously risk averse public, I can't believe a motorcyclist would advocate the licensing of bicycles. As a kid growing up not being able to ride a bike cos I wasn't licensed would have been an absolute travesty. This is half the problem - kids growing up these days are so sheltered from risk they hit 18 buy a superpowerful vehicle and smash their fuckin brains into lampposts showing off to their mates cos they have no concept of risk. Trying to license cycles would just continue this ridiculous project to the detriment of everyone. Lets just stop people doing anything risky at all and we can all sit on the couch eating donuts and getting fat. Nice and safe. jeezus.

Most of the problem is the attitude of cagers - they think everyone else on the road have less rights to them and are a general inconvenience to their driving pleasure.

[SMOKEU]

Not sure but maybe you should go find out
Seeing you will get done for drink driving riding your push bike you muppet

There is no law which states something like "Thou shalt not ride a pushbike if thy breath alcohol exceeds XXX micrograms of alcohol per litre of breath". So no, I won't get in shit with the police for riding my pushbike pissed.

[modboy]

i definately agree with motorbikes being safer then push bikes. when i crashed my 250 a few years back, i came out better off then when i crash my bmx at lower speed. in saying that i did have all my gear on when riding the 250.
maybe cyclist should swap lycra for leather?:eek:

Fucking Bullshit
anyone that agrees with this is either in denial or completely deluded.

7 cyclists killed in NZ so far in 2009.
ref. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10599817&pnum=2

25 motorcyclists (as at JULY) - and we all know we can add a few more sadly.
ref. http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/national-news/2441025/178-deaths-on-NZ-roads-in-five-months

And there are over 1 million people riding bicycles in NZ.
ref. http://can.org.nz/system/files/CAN_NZ+Cycling+Facts.pdf

Fact is cycling is far far more safer than riding a motorbike - I guess the "feeling of safety" is just our perception.

It would be nice if this debate included even a moderate degree of fact.

[Latte]

Fucking Bullshit
anyone that agrees with this is either in denial or completely deluded.

7 cyclists killed in NZ so far in 2009.

25 motorcyclists (as at JULY) - and we all know we can add a few more sadly.
ref. http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/national-news/2441025/178-deaths-on-NZ-roads-in-five-months

And there are thousands more people riding bicycles than motorcycles/scooters.

It would be nice if this debate included even a moderate degree of fact.

Where do you get the figures of thousands more cyclists? Is that total (ie mountainbike, bmx etc) or are you talking purely road/commuters etc?

[modboy]

Where do you get the figures of thousands more cyclists? Is that total (ie mountainbike, bmx etc) or are you talking purely road/commuters etc?

http://can.org.nz/system/files/CAN_NZ+Cycling+Facts.pdf

[Bounce001]

Why not have anyone riding a push bike on the road take at least a theory test so they know the basic road rules.

Cyclist want speed limits lowered, separate lanes and/or roads closed so they can use them. When they start paying some form of road user charges then I might start listening to them.

Having lived in Taupo for a number of years, there was always complaints from locals about cyclists on the road as many train for major events. Most don't seem to follow basic road rules let alone many taking a crap in someones driveway because it looks like 'a good place to stop'.

As for groups of cyclists, it is in the NZ Road Code on how they should ride - eg no more than two abreast.

If they want to be respected on the road by other users, they first need to show respect to other road users and pay road user charges.

[modboy]

Why not have anyone riding a push bike on the road take at least a theory test so they know the basic road rules.

Cyclist want speed limits lowered, separate lanes and/or roads closed so they can use them. When they start paying some form of road user charges then I might start listening to them.

Having lived in Taupo for a number of years, there was always complaints from locals about cyclists on the road as many train for major events. Most don't seem to follow basic road rules let alone many taking a crap in someones driveway because it looks like 'a good place to stop'.

As for groups of cyclists, it is in the NZ Road Code on how they should ride - eg no more than two abreast.

If they want to be respected on the road by other users, they first need to show respect to other road users and pay road user charges.

By and large I agree with this - when I was a kid the cops used to come to our school and do little road cycling tests with us and check out bikes.

I totally agree with your point on respect. We always (ALWAYS) drop to max two abreast - and often single file when riding on the roads in groups around welly. It has to go both ways.

... and I've never taken a crap on anyones property... :beer:

[Bounce001]

... and I've never taken a crap on anyones property...

I'll sleep much better knowing that!@:2thumbsup

[R6_kid]

There is no law which states something like "Thou shalt not ride a pushbike if thy breath alcohol exceeds XXX micrograms of alcohol per litre of breath". So no, I won't get in shit with the police for riding my pushbike pissed.

Yes you will. As an adult you are legally required to ride your pushbike/bicycle on the road, not on the footpath (it is an offence to ride on the footpath). If you are pissed off your face, riding down the road wobblier than a 50kg blond chick after four vodka RTDs, and you get passed by a cop, then you are quite likely to get stopped, breath tested and taken to the cells.

[SMOKEU]

Yes you will. As an adult you are legally required to ride your pushbike/bicycle on the road, not on the footpath (it is an offence to ride on the footpath). If you are pissed off your face, riding down the road wobblier than a 50kg blond chick after four vodka RTDs, and you get passed by a cop, then you are quite likely to get stopped, breath tested and taken to the cells.

As long as I can ride my pushbike in a straight line and I'm not creating an undue hazard to myself or other traffic, and as long as I am not impeding the flow of traffic there is nothing the cops can do about it. However, if someone is walking in the middle of a busy road at a level of intoxication where they can't even stand up properly, then they can be taken into custody for detox. Same goes for people on skateboards and rollerblades.

[Toffee]

I regulary ride the 40 odd km return commute to work on the pushbike - almost all on the open road - I have done around 10 000 kms in the last 4 years without a problem. Totally agree that road rules must be followed - 2 abreast max and single file much of the time. Not keen on extra road user charges - already pay these for the car and the bike - and if I wasn't cycling I'd be in the car or on the bike.

Over the 10 000 kms my near misses have almost always been caused by younger drivers and their lack of awareness. The most courteous and aware drivers - by far - are the professionals - ie the truckies - they manage to pass with plenty of room despite having the biggest vehicles.

[SMOKEU]

A cyclist isn't legally required to undergo a breath test unless a police officer has seen the person in question recently operating a motor vehicle or has reason to suspect that the accused has been recently operating a motor vehicle. A bicycle is not a motor vehicle.

[Dean]

There is no law which states something like "Thou shalt not ride a pushbike if thy breath alcohol exceeds XXX micrograms of alcohol per litre of breath". So no, I won't get in shit with the police for riding my pushbike pissed.

Bro honestly, dont be that stupid to ride a pushbike pissed that's low man.
I know you are keen to get baked and ride which Is goods in my books but drunk, nah man.
You would get put in the cells, but no you wont be "getting in shit" I think your cellmates will have a handfull of it bro!! They call the first timers in lockup "fresh meat".

[SMOKEU]

Bro honestly, dont be that stupid to ride a pushbike pissed that's low man.
I know you are keen to get baked and ride which Is goods in my books but drunk, nah man.
You would get put in the cells, but no you wont be "getting in shit" I think your cellmates will have a handfull of it bro!! They call the first timers in lockup "fresh meat".

So next time I want to get on the piss at a mates house I'm meant to drive home completely pissed? Or should I leave my car/motorbike at my mates place and walk home and risk having my ride stolen? Or get a taxi to take me everywhere which will be really expensive? Or call my mum at 2am asking for a ride home? A pushbike is the most sensible option in this case, and if I crash I'm unlikely to injure or kill anyone else.

[Genestho]

I agree..............my Daughter would be better off under ACC...I certainly think that ACC should penalise drink drivers....sport..well...the injuries are not quite so pre meditated

In the case of EBA causing death - ACC and therefore WE should NOT be paying for the funerals, or the towies (often the victims family or police cover the towies) or for cleaning the mess. Utter crap, civil cases should be allowed at this point!

As you were:2thumbsup

[Dean]

So next time I want to get on the piss at a mates house I'm meant to drive home completely pissed? Or should I leave my car/motorbike at my mates place and walk home and risk having my ride stolen? Or get a taxi to take me everywhere which will be really expensive? Or call my mum at 2am asking for a ride home? A pushbike is the most sensible option in this case, and if I crash I'm unlikely to injure or kill anyone else.

Get one of your mates to be the sober one, or just stay at your mates house or the house holding the party (car wouldnt be as likely to be stolen). I first of all go with a group of mates to a party NEVER TAKE A MOTORCYLE, then either stay at theres or walk back with one of us as the sober one. It sounds pussy but having a sober person at the end of the day will keep you alive. My tip is dont go back to your mums house at 2am, you will wake them up and they have to clean up all the spew or mess you make the following morning (my poor mum lol).

[ready4whatever]

Yeah they should go to the post shop and buy 6 or 12 months of registration. I've paid my ACC levies but havent claimed a damn thing, got turned down from ACC because my injury was over a days time, instead of a sudden 'snap'. what bullshit

[Maki]

Yeah they should go to the post shop and buy 6 or 12 months of registration. I've paid my ACC levies but havent claimed a damn thing, got turned down from ACC because my injury was over a days time, instead of a sudden 'snap'. what bullshit

ACC only pays for fast injuries?

[imdying]

So next time I want to get on the piss at a mates house I'm meant to drive home completely pissed?No, next time you should give your brain a little exercise and use some foresight. Going to mates with a crate should be dead giveaway that you're not going to be in a fit state to drive home.

Or call my mum at 2am asking for a ride home?No mother worth a knob of goat shit would murmur any complaint (till the next morning heh).

A pushbike is the most sensible option in this caseNo, that would be crashing on your mates couch.

[george formby]

I used to live in Titirangi & had to travel Scenic Drive at weekends. In the car I would get stuck behind some cyclists who would continue to ride as a pack, even uphill. Mangy lepers! The considerate cyclists would allow traffic to pass at every opportunity. Yeah, safe & responsible. As has been posted here regardless of vehicle we are responsible for our own actions & should be held to account accordingly. All road users are responsible for safety.
If you want to live in terror, spend a week on a motorbike in the hedonistic, cycling utopia of Amsterdam. A million pedalers with WGAF attitudes.

[Grahameeboy]

No, next time you should give your brain a little exercise and use some foresight. Going to mates with a crate should be dead giveaway that you're not going to be in a fit state to drive home.
No mother worth a knob of goat shit would murmur any complaint (till the next morning heh).
No, that would be crashing on your mates couch.

Agree................

[twinkle]

The way things are I am scared to ride a pushbike. I feel much more in control of my destiny when I am on a motorcycle. If you are on a pushbike you are not traveling at the same speed as the flow of traffic and there is no throttle to twist to get you out of trouble.

I actually think that you are safer on a motorcycle than on a pushbike, at least of your ride cautiously. Would you agree? I suppose statistics will show much higher rates of death and injury for motorcycles than for pushbikes but I still think motorcycling is safer in a way.

I know it ain't going to happen but would it not be fair that cyclists pay an ACC levy for doing what they do?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10599817

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10599851

pointing out the bleeding obvious, but in both of those accidents the cyclists were in no way at fault. Wouldn't it be more fair if the person causing the damage paid the ACC levies? i.e. the motorist, which is what happens now?

How many cyclists kill themselves every year anyway? vs motorcycling? Most of the cycling deaths would be caused by other road users?

And that 'twist of the throttle' seems to get plenty of people into plenty of trouble...

[caseye]

There is no law which states something like "Thou shalt not ride a pushbike if thy breath alcohol exceeds XXX micrograms of alcohol per litre of breath". So no, I won't get in shit with the police for riding my pushbike pissed.

I'd like to have a little bet with you on this one.
If you are stopped by Police on your Push bike and found to over the legal limit of breath Alcohol content.
YOU WILL BE CHARGED with DIC= Drunk In Charge.
There are no if's or butts about this, I'm not going to waste my time looking it up for you, but for your own peace of mind I'd strongly recommend that You do!
Personally I feel that these days cyclists are demanding more and more of road users time and space. Creating unwanted issues of speed restrictions in areas where there is no need for them except for bunches of push bikers riding 4 and 5 abreast causing traffic chaos.
If we don't register/licence them, then we need, at the very least to get them off OUR! bloody roads.We do pay, they don't.
Go away until there is parity or division I don't care which, but it should be one or the other.
No more lets be nice to push bikers, they want to push their own barrows so to speak , thats fine, lobby and pay like the rest of us.
Or heaven forbid, make yourselves as visible as possible and wear the gear and Obey the road rules as they pertain to your group.

[SMOKEU]

I'd like to have a little bet with you on this one.
If you are stopped by Police on your Push bike and found to over the legal limit of breath Alcohol content.
YOU WILL BE CHARGED with DIC= Drunk In Charge.
There are no if's or butts about this, I'm not going to waste my time looking it up for you, but for your own peace of mind I'd strongly recommend that You do!


I've done my research and I know the facts. Clearly you don't.

[SMOKEU]

No, that would be crashing on your mates couch.

Too bad most of my mates have to get up early for work and then I'll be woken up early at 7am and then I'll have to go home while I'm still pissed.

[caseye]

I've done my research and I know the facts. Clearly you don't.

Tui's anyone?

[Pedrostt500]

My work truck has picked up some funny noises of late it seems to be a thumping sound followed by Heelllp, every drive shaft rotation, I have found the noise quietens when I turn the Stereo up.

[twinkle]

bwahaha! Motorists pay road levies to repair the damage caused to the road by themselves, how much damage is a 15kg bike doing to the road? Didn't the harold say that heavy traffic was only paying for something like 50% of the damage they do?

Anyway, every man woman and child has the right to cycle(amongst other things) on the road, that right is always there unless they happen to be in jail (or on a motorway).
For the privilege of the convenience of driving a vehicle you have to get a license, your license can be removed for being a numpty.
Maybe more arseholes should lose their licenses to remind them of the responsibility that comes with driving 1500+kg of steel, and that the road isn't 'theirs'.

[MarkyMark]

I guess kids climbing trees (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=108536) should be forced to fill in ACC forms and pay up or be banned from leaving the ground as well eh?

[imdying]

Too bad most of my mates have to get up early for work and then I'll be woken up early at 7am and then I'll have to go home while I'm still pissed.Get some better mates... they should be laughing at your state, and telling your to throw in the toilet, not around it, before they bugger off to work, not kicking you out.

[SMOKEU]

Get some better mates... they should be laughing at your state, and telling your to throw in the toilet, not around it, before they bugger off to work, not kicking you out.

Since you're the expert, take your own advice then.

[imdying]

Please don't cry about it, I'm foh real nigga.