Demerits for speeding changing?

[Thani-B]

Was talking to a copper the other morning, he told me that the demerit system for speeding was changing next year. Apparently there is going to be a flat fine for all speeds, instead of the levels that are current at the moment. And the demerits are going to double. For example, going 14km over the limit gets you an $80 fine and 20 demerits, correct? Im not sure what the fine will be but the demerits will be 40. And more good news, on public holiday weekends, the demerits double. So you would get 80. He said they are bringing this in for Easter weekend. Any one else heard this?

[Laxi]

sounds like the faarkers have learnt a few tricks of the aussies:no:

[Thaeos]

If true ... the biggest impact this will have is people having to fork out more money. Improving road safety ... ? I don't think so.

[AllanB]

Darn - time to pack a tube of KY in the tool kit I think.:buggerd:

[Laxi]

what about the fact it's twice as easy to loose your license

[Mort]

Its all about money - fuckers.

[Thani-B]

Well no its not about the money. Same fine no matter what speed you go. But if you get caught doing 120 on a public holiday, you've just lost your licence. Wouldnt that make you watch your speed more?

[Matt_TG]

I read the first post as saying the demirits rise, not the fine. I can recall the govt saying a while back they were doing this ... sort of removes the "revenue gathering" argument doesn't it? Less money but more pedestrians. Bus companies will be rubbing their hands together :)

edit: I guess if the 'flat fine' is higher than the lowest current fine there's an increase ... butthe main impact would be to hit you in the licence, not the back pocket ....

[Thaeos]

yea I misread it and assumed fines were doubling.

[sil3nt]

Why are people getting angry. How hard is it to not speed?
says the kid on a 250

[Thani-B]

Why are people getting angry. How hard is it to not speed?
says the kid on a 250

My first two rides on 650s I got to about 140 without even realising. My GN just doesnt go that fast that easily. Its quite hard to not speed lol.

[Gremlin]

Its quite hard to not speed lol.
For many people, once you lose your license the first time... it becomes a bit easier not to speed :laugh: Some never get it, even after 5+ times :lol:

Wow... so conditions being right, you could collect 200dm for one fine... Loss of license does become rather easy... so err, is the 100dm limit being raised? :confused:

[Thani-B]

Wow... so conditions being right, you could collect 200dm for one fine... Loss of license does become rather easy... so err, is the 100dm limit being raised? :confused:

I heard a rumour from someone else that it was going up to 160. But Im not sure where they heard it from. Will be hard for most if it doesnt.

[Thani-B]

Its quite hard to not speed lol.

For me on a 650 lol. On my GN I dont have to worry.

[Spyke]

I think I'm going to take up hang gliding, and become a burglar cause the penalties are way less harsh than speeding.

[Kickaha]

Its all about money - fuckers.

If it was all about the money they would double the fines and let you accumulate more demerits before they pulled your licence

[NinjaNanna]

If true then that will probably be the straw that broke this camels back.

Being a weekend warrior (especially so on long weekends), its hard enough to justify the play toy as it is, make it that easy to lose one's license and I think its game over.

Might be off to the dirt bikes me thinks, or finally off to the buckets.

[p.dath]

I don't have any problem with the dermits being used as the instrument of deterrent as opposed to cash.

The problem with a fine is that $80 maybe nothing to one person, and hence no deterent, and to another represent a month of disposable income and hence a much harsher penalty.

Demerit points apply equally to everyone, no matter how much you earn, how flash your car is, or weather you have the capacity to pay to support a bad habbit.

And well, unpopular this will be to many members, if you habitually speed (and get caught) then you will loose your licence. Simple.

[sil3nt]

The problem with a fine is that $80 maybe nothing to one person, and hence no deterent, and to another represent a month of disposable income and hence a much harsher penalty.If you can't afford the fine then don't do the crime....

[p.dath]

If you can't afford the fine then don't do the crime....

Ahh, but what about those who can't afford the fine, but keep doing the crime anyway? They just choose not to pay.

[Morcs]

*sigh*

This is going to encourage more runners...

Hell, if ya got at least 150hp, why would you stop?

I know I wont be stopping if a cop wants to take my license for doing 120...

Its also a good incentive to not have a number plate displayed too.

It should take a lot more to loose your license...

[p.dath]

*sigh*

This is going to encourage more runners...

Hell, if ya got at least 150hp, why would you stop?

I know I wont be stopping if a cop wants to take my license for doing 120...

Its also a good incentive to not have a number plate displayed too.

It should take a lot more to loose your license...

You'd risk a short stint in jail by running from the cops? You have to be kidding right?

The 120km/h comment is interesting. This seems a very low speed for getting enough demerit points to loose your licence in one hit (assuming we aren't talking about a 50km/h speed zone). Has this been published somewhere, or was it just "some speed" that someone was talking about?

[PirateJafa]

If you can't afford the fine then don't do the crime....
So you're saying the affluent members of society should be allowed to speed and offend as they wish?

You believe selling indulgences is the way to go?

:rolleyes: Fool.

[crazyhorse]

Yip, they do that in Australia - and it does make you think twice on Public Holidays - well.......... only for a moment :lol:

[sil3nt]

:rolleyes: Fool.Thanks i couldn't have said it any better myself :rolleyes:

[Usarka]

It's one of the initiatives in the safer journeys report which is up for public consultation.

So of course it's not a given until that process is finished.




:killingme

[marty]

I've been having a read of the Safer Journeys document. There are some very good points in there - none of which will make riding a bike/driving a car on the road any more fun though, but some of the inititaves are pretty behaviour changing! Zero BAC for under 20's and recidivists, demerits on speed and red light cameras, lowering speeding fines for increased demerits (it does not state by how much though), compulsory ABS on all bikes over 600cc from 2015, reducuing speed in urban areas to 30-40km/h, removing the 'no licence but you can ride a scooter' rule. Makes for good reading I reckon. I can't really see anything I wouldn't support to some degree.

http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/Documents/SaferJourneys_FULL_Final_ISBN.pdf

[Swoop]

demerits on ... red light cameras
Have to support that one! Things are well out of hand.

[mossy1200]

lose my licence,lose my job,go on the dole and steel some stuff?

[The Pastor]

lose my licence,lose my job,go on the dole and steel some stuff?
yeah, you know it.

[NDORFN]

I don't have any problem with the dermits being used as the instrument of deterrent as opposed to cash.

The problem with a fine is that $80 maybe nothing to one person, and hence no deterent, and to another represent a month of disposable income and hence a much harsher penalty.

Demerit points apply equally to everyone, no matter how much you earn, how flash your car is, or weather you have the capacity to pay to support a bad habbit.

And well, unpopular this will be to many members, if you habitually speed (and get caught) then you will loose your licence. Simple.

Exactly! That's the most logical thing I've ever seen you post.

[slofox]

Errmmmmm better watch that 206 stuff huh? :argh:

Either that or get into it before the change takes place...:whistle:

[SMOKEU]

It's about time I got the speed limiter taken out my car and I should get a 1000cc sports bike. Much harder to get demerits then.

[Morcs]

Exactly! That's the most logical thing I've ever seen you post.
We should be able to have the option... fine or demerits.

I would much rather pay a double fine than have demerits.

Reading the above document, urban areas to be 30-40kph?!! wtf there are plenty of main roads that are stupidly classed as 50kph as they are (hobsonville road, perfect example) let alone dropping them even more.

and ABS on all bikes 600cc+ after 2015, i dont see the point in this if we arent allowed to speed...

[Morepower]

This has me puzzeled ( not too hard) . The draconian policing of speed limits has seen average open road speeds drop over the last few years. This has had no real effect on the road toll. Why is doing more of the same thing going to have any different result? Its nuts.
They have drummed into everyone via the media that if you keep below 100kmh and dont drink you will be perfectly safe.
Until we all realise that vehicles are dangerous at any speed and that driving requires your full attention and a good degree of skill then bugger all will change.
Then there are those that will drive in a dangerous manner because a. they dont care or b .just dont know any better and that does not mean they are speeding. Some mum in a people mover with the kids on board tailgating in the rain at 90kmh or the guy in the next lane busy texting , sorting out his I pod , whatever.
I can see more runners , more tragedy

[marty]

This has me puzzeled ( not too hard) . The draconian policing of speed limits has seen average open road speeds drop over the last few years. This has had no real effect on the road toll.

really? ask any EMS person how many open road fatal crashes they are attending these days as opposed to pre-highway patrol days.



I can see more runners , more tragedy

so? if you run and kill yourself - too fucking bad. Darwin was right. if you run and kill someone else, that's unfortunate. who's to say that wasn't going to happen anyway. no legislation is going to protect that person unfortunately

[Ixion]

The OP's informant is out of date.

This proposal was part of a bunch of things brought out in proposed legislation by the last Labour government just before the election. Along with banning radar detectors, and some sensible ideas like a LAMS for learner riders and scrapping the 70kph limit.

The proposed legislation died the death when labour lost the election.

The idea has been floated again as part of the Road Strategy 2020 discussion document (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=108525) (put in your submission if you don't like it) , but is currently only "vague discussion" . Nothing specific has been brought forward.

[Morepower]

really? ask any EMS person how many open road fatal crashes they are attending these days as opposed to pre-highway patrol days.




so? if you run and kill yourself - too fucking bad. Darwin was right. if you run and kill someone else, that's unfortunate. who's to say that wasn't going to happen anyway. no legislation is going to protect that person unfortunately

Somethings not working


Injury or fatal crash statistics show increasing numbers of injury/fatal accidents;

2003 10615
2004 10368
2005 10808
2006 11291
2007 12043
2008 11647

It seems we are not crashing less , it could be argued that improved secondary safety such as air bags, a more modern safer fleet etc are saving lives not the lack of crashes.

As for runners idiots or not its tragic when someone gets hurt or injured no matter how misguided their decision at the time.

[scumdog]

Somethings not working


Injury or fatal crash statistics show increasing numbers of injury/fatal accidents;

2003 10615
2004 10368
2005 10808
2006 11291
2007 12043
2008 11647

It seems we are not crashing less , it could be argued that improved secondary safety such as air bags, a more modern safer fleet etc are saving lives not the lack of crashes.



How does the above look when linked to the increased number of vehicles and/or drivers on the roads?

[paddy]

You'd risk a short stint in jail by running from the cops? You have to be kidding right?

More to the point - risk killing yourself riding hard to escape the cops. Check out YouTube there are some good examples...

[paddy]

We should be able to have the option... fine or demerits.

I would much rather pay a double fine than have demerits.

Nooo.....that just leads to a situation where if you earn lots of money you can afford to go as fast as you like. It would be like buying the right to speed.

[paddy]

The OP's informant is out of date.

This proposal was part of a bunch of things brought out in proposed legislation by the last Labour government just before the election. Along with banning radar detectors, and some sensible ideas like a LAMS for learner riders and scrapping the 70kph limit.

The proposed legislation died the death when labour lost the election.

Really? So the 2010 Strategy changes are not going ahead? I was expecting them soon. :-( Maybe we do need to arrange for a few hundred learner riders to ride into work along the main arterials at 70 km/h then.

[caseye]

Change won't happen unless you actually get out there and do something ( really in person) like and for instance email your Local MP and the other sides Mp's the papers, Holmesy and anyone else you can think of.

None of this proposed legislation addresses what I believe is the real issue.
There is an ever increasing number of people from all walks of life, all types of society, race, colours and creeds who simply don't give a flying fig.
They lose their car, to Police, ah well, theres another just down the street.Yep they go get their mates, lose that too.
OK well I can't own a car or do I have a licence ah no worries I know I'll steal one!

Now this is just the beginning.
Then when they come to Police attention again they don't hesitate , they run! Innocent people are killed!
What do we do? we go ah well lucky it wasn't someone we knew.
What should we do?
We should demand that Govt makes laws that attack these peoples upbringing.
So that despite themsleves they get an education.
They learn that life isn't fair and that the Govt and ordinary citizens dont and wont have to take this shit anymore.
Until then we will conitnue to see horrendous acts of blatant disregard by animals who never knew what it meant to care and to their dying day never will!
It's their fault don't get me wrong, right from wrong has never changed.
Attitude has, we've let it, so has our Police force, so has our govt.
Social attitude needs to change before specifics can be addressed, but I'd suggest the above as a good starting point.

[cs363]

How does the above look when linked to the increased number of vehicles and/or drivers on the roads?

Are there any accurate figures available for the actual numbers of vehicles on the road? As opposed to currently registered vehicles I mean - I for one have 4 currently registered & WOF'd vehicles in my shed and I know for a fact I'm not the only one like this so registration figures can't be relied on as an accurate gauge of vehicles actually in use.

[Ixion]

Really? So the 2010 Strategy changes are not going ahead? I was expecting them soon. :-( Maybe we do need to arrange for a few hundred learner riders to ride into work along the main arterials at 70 km/h then.

Well, not those ones. The LAMS scheme and dropping the 70kph limit are also referred to (very briefly) in the 2020 document. Submit, on what you want as well as what you don't want.

[marty]

Somethings not working


Injury or fatal crash statistics show increasing numbers of injury/fatal accidents;

2003 10615
2004 10368
2005 10808
2006 11291
2007 12043
2008 11647

It seems we are not crashing less , it could be argued that improved secondary safety such as air bags, a more modern safer fleet etc are saving lives not the lack of crashes.

As for runners idiots or not its tragic when someone gets hurt or injured no matter how misguided their decision at the time.

deaths have reduced. a lot. CBF looking it up.

injury crashes have probably gone up, taking some of the previous fatal stats down - perhaps safer cars (who would have thought mandating safer cars - eg side intrusion) could make a difference

you run, you wear the consequences. i don't see the tragedy.

[Hinny]

According to the authors of this discussion document speed contributed to about a third of deaths on NZ roads.
This is an ambiguous statement that is designed to mislead people into thinking that speeding, as in driving in excess of the speed limit, is responsible for a third of road fatalities. This is clearly not so.
Why do they need to be so subversive?
If they wantr to know what to do to make roads safe why don't they look at countries that have the lowest fatalities and copy their models?
According to their modelling a reduction in the speed limit and active policing with mobile patrols and speed cameras is going to save lives.
Emperical evidence shows that the outcome is the exact opposite.
In the US and Australia the implementation of the 'Speed Kills" program has led to a FIFTY% incrfese in road fatalities.
For these peoploe to produce this document with misleading statemnts to justify failed policies is to display incompetence bordering on criminal negligence.
These people need to be fire before they kill more p[eople.

[Morcs]

Nooo.....that just leads to a situation where if you earn lots of money you can afford to go as fast as you like. It would be like buying the right to speed.

Exactly. If you speed, you pay the consequences in whatever way you can - If you have the money, pay the fine, if you dont, take the demerits.

[p.dath]

Exactly. If you speed, you pay the consequences in whatever way you can - If you have the money, pay the fine, if you dont, take the demerits.

Morcs, we can't have laws working one way for someone, and a different way for someone else. The law has to apply evenly for everybody.

And as for be able to choose the punishment for breaking the rules ... why don't we just add more options like taking Helen Clark out on a date, eating a donut, or kissing John Key - until we have enough options that will allow everyone to choose a punishment they "like".

The thing is, your not meant to like the punishment. That's why it is a deterrent. And the deterrent should be of a similar consequence to everyone. Cash does not create this similarity of consequence. Demerit points do.

[p.dath]

According to the authors of this discussion document speed contributed to about a third of deaths on NZ roads.
This is an ambiguous statement that is designed to mislead people into thinking that speeding, as in driving in excess of the speed limit, is responsible for a third of road fatalities. This is clearly not so.
...

What do you think is the number 1 killer on the roads Hinny? I'm interested in your personal opinion.

The document said speed was a "contributing" factor. It also said alcohol and youth were contributing factors. In fact, it listed several contributing factors. If I recall, many of the accidents involved several factors (hence the "contributing"). I think your portrayal of the document is in itself misleading.

The "discussion" paper (and that is what is was) seemed well balanced for its intention to me. It mearly put forward some views held by the Government, and then invited the public to put forward their opinion.
I hope you put forward your opinion that speed was not responsible for 1/3 of fatalities on the road. I suspect they would agree with you.

[gammaguy]

Well no its not about the money. Same fine no matter what speed you go. But if you get caught doing 120 on a public holiday, you've just lost your licence. Wouldnt that make you watch your speed more?

IF,as they say,it IS about road safety,then this has to be seen as a step in the right direction.

forgive me though,i am a sceptical bastard.so i dont believe them.:oi-grr:

[Swoop]

wtf there are plenty of main roads that are stupidly classed as 50kph as they are (hobsonville road, perfect example) let alone dropping them even more.
Have you noticed the additional speed camera positions along that road recently?
Where the fixed "speed measurement device" NOW SLOW thingammy is located (western end before the first fruit shop on the left), the mobile speed camera now likes to park going up the hill (heading west) where people park their car that they are trying to sell.
The beam of the fixed speed measurement device, now aims back towards the mobile camera.
Trying to hide their presence in the beam of the other unit. If anyone has come down the hill (heading East) they can get nicely pinged.

[Morcs]

Have you noticed the additional speed camera positions along that road recently?
Where the fixed "speed measurement device" NOW SLOW thingammy is located (western end before the first fruit shop on the left), the mobile speed camera now likes to park going up the hill (heading west) where people park their car that they are trying to sell.
The beam of the fixed speed measurement device, now aims back towards the mobile camera.
Trying to hide their presence in the beam of the other unit. If anyone has come down the hill (heading East) they can get nicely pinged.

Ah. I did not know this. That hill is a pain. In a car or bike its impossible to go down that hill within the speed limit unless you are on the brakes all the way down. Makes for a nice spot for the oinkers.

[Thani-B]

IF,as they say,it IS about road safety,then this has to be seen as a step in the right direction.

forgive me though,i am a sceptical bastard.so i dont believe them.:oi-grr:

I think some of the ideas in that plan are good ones, but Im not really liking this one. If you are driving in an area you dont know, and you didnt see the speed limit change, so for example are going 70 in a 50 area, thats an honest mistake, even though you should have been paying better attention to the signs, but it may cost you your licence. Its just a bit worrying.

[NDORFN]

I think some of the ideas in that plan are good ones, but Im not really liking this one. If you are driving in an area you dont know, and you didnt see the speed limit change, so for example are going 70 in a 50 area, thats an honest mistake, even though you should have been paying better attention to the signs, but it may cost you your licence. Its just a bit worrying.

The richer ones who will be better off fighting charges in court rather than just paying fines will bring to attention inadequacies in things such as signage. The only reason none of the entrapment issues in traffic law enforcement are being raised presently is because anyone who can afford to defend in court is better off just paying the fine.

[p.dath]

I think some of the ideas in that plan are good ones, but Im not really liking this one. If you are driving in an area you dont know, and you didnt see the speed limit change, so for example are going 70 in a 50 area, thats an honest mistake, even though you should have been paying better attention to the signs, but it may cost you your licence. Its just a bit worrying.

I'm starting to think this is a bit of propaganda. Where does it say that going 20km/h of the limit once will cost you your licence?

Just because people keep repeating what once person said doesn't make it true.

[Grahameeboy]

I've been having a read of the Safer Journeys document. There are some very good points in there - none of which will make riding a bike/driving a car on the road any more fun though, but some of the inititaves are pretty behaviour changing! Zero BAC for under 20's and recidivists, demerits on speed and red light cameras, lowering speeding fines for increased demerits (it does not state by how much though), compulsory ABS on all bikes over 600cc from 2015, reducuing speed in urban areas to 30-40km/h, removing the 'no licence but you can ride a scooter' rule. Makes for good reading I reckon. I can't really see anything I wouldn't support to some degree.

http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/Documents/SaferJourneys_FULL_Final_ISBN.pdf

I think they would have to consider the 100dm though.

Problem with ABS is this:

Doesn't stop you hitting something.
How would the manufactures feel about this...mmm...well NZ is the only place in the world that demands ASB so we won't sell to NZ...impacts on our economy...

Problem with urban speed limit of 30/40 is that it would upset a few cyclists or would they be immune...otherwise it's a good idea...I mean we all enjoy fun outside urban areas...

What I find odd is that the proposal is to require ABS on bikes over 600cc but still allow us to by a bike with 170bhp....so are they saying that braking kills and not speed now (tongue in cheek).

[Grahameeboy]

I think some of the ideas in that plan are good ones, but Im not really liking this one. If you are driving in an area you dont know, and you didnt see the speed limit change, so for example are going 70 in a 50 area, thats an honest mistake, even though you should have been paying better attention to the signs, but it may cost you your licence. Its just a bit worrying.

Ponsonby Road....lost or not you cannot miss the huge painted speed limit on the road...

[Grahameeboy]

Ah. I did not know this. That hill is a pain. In a car or bike its impossible to go down that hill within the speed limit unless you are on the brakes all the way down. Makes for a nice spot for the oinkers.

That's what ABS is for silly

[Thani-B]

I'm starting to think this is a bit of propaganda. Where does it say that going 20km/h of the limit once will cost you your licence?

Just because people keep repeating what once person said doesn't make it true.

It doesnt. It was just an example I used at the beginning of the thread.
According to this http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/33.html these are the current demerits. Which Ive copied below.

Demerit points
Demerit points are given for all speeding infringements other than speed camera offences. If you get a total of 100 or more within two years, you'll be suspended from driving for three months.

Speed ---- Demerit points
Exceeding the speed limit by up to 10 km/h ---- 10
Exceeding the speed limit by 11-20 km/h ---- 20
Exceeding the speed limit by 21-30 km/h ---- 35
Exceeding the speed limit by 31-35 km/h ---- 40
Exceeding the speed limit by 36 km/h or more ---- 50


Ok so 20 was wrong. Lets make that 21. The copper said they would double. So that makes the demerits for going 21km/h over the limit 70. And on public holidays, they are going to double again. So thats 140. If they keep the total at 100 that just means you lost your licence if you were doing 71 in a 50 area on a public holiday. Thats all I was saying.

[NDORFN]

It doesnt. It was just an example I used at the beginning of the thread.
According to this http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/33.html these are the current demerits. Which Ive copied below.

Demerit points
Demerit points are given for all speeding infringements other than speed camera offences. If you get a total of 100 or more within two years, you'll be suspended from driving for three months.

Speed ---- Demerit points
Exceeding the speed limit by up to 10 km/h ---- 10
Exceeding the speed limit by 11-20 km/h ---- 20
Exceeding the speed limit by 21-30 km/h ---- 35
Exceeding the speed limit by 31-35 km/h ---- 40
Exceeding the speed limit by 36 km/h or more ---- 50


Ok so 20 was wrong. Lets make that 21. The copper said they would double. So that makes the demerits for going 21km/h over the limit 70. And on public holidays, they are going to double again. So thats 140. If they keep the total at 100 that just means you lost your licence if you were doing 71 in a 50 area on a public holiday. Thats all I was saying.

Good point. Mind you, we shouldn't speed in 50 areas at all. That's where speeding really is dangerous.

[Thani-B]

Good point. Mind you, we shouldn't speed in 50 areas at all. That's where speeding really is dangerous.

Ok so 121 in a 100 then. Same diff when it comes to the speed over the limit.

[p.dath]

Where does it say demerits on public holidays will quadruple? I'll do some Googling on this later to see if I can find a reference. I know you said the copper said this - but does this sound right?

Note that different speed limits can be posted during public holidays, but that doesn't imply any quadrupling of the dermit points.

[Thani-B]

Where does it say demerits on public holidays will quadruple? I'll do some Googling on this later to see if I can find a reference. I know you said the copper said this - but does this sound right?

Note that different speed limits can be posted during public holidays, but that doesn't imply any quadrupling of the dermit points.

Thats what the whole point of the thread was, asking if anyone else had heard what he told me. It doesnt mean it is going to happen. He might have just been trying to scare us into not speeding.

[NDORFN]

Ok so 121 in a 100 then. Same diff when it comes to the speed over the limit.

Yeah you're quadrupling, not doubling. You'd get 70 demerit points for 121 in a 100 on a public holiday. You got me thinking though... demerit points and fines should be double for residential zones, so on public holidays you WOULD lose your licence doing 71 in a 50.

[Grahameeboy]

Where does it say demerits on public holidays will quadruple? I'll do some Googling on this later to see if I can find a reference. I know you said the copper said this - but does this sound right?

Note that different speed limits can be posted during public holidays, but that doesn't imply any quadrupling of the dermit points.

Yeah.a cop told me that I would not get any demerits for crossing no passing....I got 35 points...

[NDORFN]

Thats what the whole point of the thread was, asking if anyone else had heard what he told me. It doesnt mean it is going to happen. He might have just been trying to scare us into not speeding.

Police officers don't actively discourage speeding by any other means than to issue infringement notices. Remember that.

[Thani-B]

Yeah you're quadrupling, not doubling. You'd get 70 demerit points for 121 in a 100 on a public holiday. You got me thinking though... demerit points and fines should be double for residential zones, so on public holidays you WOULD lose your licence doing 71 in a 50.

No he said they would double from what they are now. And then double again on public holidays. It doesnt matter what speed area you are in, if you are still doing 21km/h over the limit on a public hol, according to him, that would mean loss of licence. Going 71 in a 50 area and 121 in a 100 area is still 21 over the limit.

[Grahameeboy]

No he said they would double from what they are now. And then double again on public holidays. It doesnt matter what speed area you are in, if you are still doing 21km/h over the limit on a public hol, according to him, that would mean loss of licence. Going 71 in a 50 area and 121 in a 100 area is still 21 over the limit.

If it happens the Police Prosecution, the Courts will be very busy dealing with requested for Limited Licences....serious...

[Rayray401]

Lets all just sell our bikes and cars and take the bus. Afterall, we all know NZ has the best public transport system in the world ^^

[p.dath]

Thats what the whole point of the thread was, asking if anyone else had heard what he told me. It doesnt mean it is going to happen. He might have just been trying to scare us into not speeding.

I think he might have heard something that someone else said, and as is usually with Chinese whispers, the final story was quite a bit different to the original.

[Hinny]

The document said speed was a "contributing" factor. It also said alcohol and youth were contributing factors. In fact, it listed several contributing factors. If I recall, many of the accidents involved several factors (hence the "contributing"). I think your portrayal of the document is in itself misleading.

The "discussion" paper (and that is what is was) seemed well balanced for its intention to me. It mearly put forward some views held by the Government, and then invited the public to put forward their opinion.
I hope you put forward your opinion that speed was not responsible for 1/3 of fatalities on the road. I suspect they would agree with you.

The wording that is misleading is using the word speed. They don't mean going in excess of the speed limit... so to use that statistic to justify targeting people going in excess of the speed limit is disingenuous at least and probably a lot of worse adjectives could be justifiably used instead.

In the US the statistics there cite speeding ing in excess of the speed limits accounts for 1% of motorway deaths and 4% of urban deaths. In Australia they have one figure of 2% of road deaths attributable to speeding in excess of the speed limits.
If those percentages were used in NZ then we would be looking at 4 to 16 people being killed each year as a result of speeding in excess of the speed limits.
By comparison 5,000 people a year die from smoking.
How can the use of police resources be used to police speed limits as they do when virtually nothing is done to curb the scourge of tobacco?


I'm starting to think this is a bit of propaganda.
Just because people keep repeating what once person said doesn't make it true.

I'm starting to think this document is a bit of propaganda.


Police officers don't actively discourage speeding by any other means than to issue infringement notices. Remember that.

Studies have shown that the use of mobile speed enforcement is of limited or no deterrent to speeding.

The most disturbing thing that I have found is that the implementation of the very measures they are promoting here are the ones that have been shown to effect a 50% or more increase in road deaths.
For them to ignore the evidence is quite bizarre to my way of thinking.

They quote empirical evidence from Belgium to justify lowering the speed limit. The countries with the lowest death rates in Europe, Germany and Italy, have the highest speed limits. Unlimited in many places.

In the US 40 odd states raised their speed limits from 55mph to: from 65mph to unlimited in one case.
3 to 1 these States saw a reduction in their death rate whereas the States that kept the 55 limit did not see anything like the same results. This quite succinctly showed that raising the speed limit was a good thing. In Montana they brought it back from unlimited and saw a rise in the death rate. This was mirrored in Australia's Northern Territory where a reduction from unlimited to 130kph and accompanied by the 'Speed Kills' policy implementation saw a 50% increase in the death rate.
The same policy they are promoting here as a good thing.
In Pauly Fuemana's immortal words "How Bizarre, How Bizarre".
<object height="344" width="425">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TfJe8hQ8ha0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>

[peasea]

Yeah.a cop told me that I would not get any demerits for crossing no passing....I got 35 points...

Which tells us what?

Don't trust the fuckers, right?

Gawd; give me strength.......the last person on this earth to ask advice from is a cop. Try a hooker, a drug dealer, a lawyer or a finance company director first.:whistle:

[SixPackBack]

Yeah.a cop told me that I would not get any demerits for crossing no passing....I got 35 points...

And you still stick up for the lying pricks??.....:wacko:

[naphazoline]

F.T.P.


10 char's

[Hinny]

FTP definition for those that like me did not know.

FUCK THE PO-LICE.
Often heard after getting pulled over while in possession.
"License and registration"
"Man, FTP!"
"Huh??"

[PirateJafa]

FTP definition for those that like me did not know.

Fight the Power!


<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UIahlj6QfDI/R31gcyKK9cI/AAAAAAAAACc/t0Flqn-fpWY/s320/fist.jpg">

[Patrick]

Fucken
Tiny
Penis...

[Hinny]

from the Urban dictionary:

FTP

Fuck the police.
Coined in early 1998 by a C.B. local.
It is the only true definition of this word and all the othere can f*ck off.

I'm sick of these pigs harassing us. FTP baby.

[Patrick]

Good point. Mind you, we shouldn't speed in 50 areas at all. That's where speeding really is dangerous.

Well spotted. Them darn kids.... dart out of anywhere.... Always found lurking in them 50k zones.....


Yeah.a cop told me that I would not get any demerits for crossing no passing....I got 35 points...

So you got more points? The All Blacks never seem to mind.


If it happens the Police Prosecution, the Courts will be very busy dealing with requested for Limited Licences....serious...

Not the prosecutions service. Lawyers may get rich... but some other threads here have pointed out how one can do it themselves.

[Patrick]

I'm sick of these pigs harassing us.....

You forgot to add...

"Coz I am a snot nosed grot with me arse hangin out the top of me pants who can do what he likes and fuck everyone else if I am breaking the rules...?"

My version in post #78 is better........

[NighthawkNZ]

FTP

File Transfer Protocol. :whistle: :wacko::yawn:

[Gremlin]

File Transfer Protocol. :whistle: :wacko::yawn:
I'm with him... :whistle:

[Grahameeboy]

And you still stick up for the lying pricks??.....:wacko:

Yes...I think the offence was just a fine until soon before I was stopped so he did not realise

[Grahameeboy]

Well spotted. Them darn kids.... dart out of anywhere.... Always found lurking in them 50k zones.....



So you got more points? The All Blacks never seem to mind.



Not the prosecutions service. Lawyers may get rich... but some other threads here have pointed out how one can do it themselves.

I was not complaining...

Police Prosecution are presented with draft self done applications so they will be busier...even with Lawyers involved

[Patrick]

I was not complaining...

Police Prosecution are presented with draft self done applications so they will be busier...even with Lawyers involved

Never said you were.....

Most of these are done for sentencing purposes, seeking a limited license. Then, prosecutions is involved.

Loss of license over demerits is a matter between the license loser and the approving court... no one else....

[Grahameeboy]

Never said you were.....

Most of these are done for sentencing purposes, seeking a limited license. Then, prosecutions is involved.

Loss of license over demerits is a matter between the license loser and the approving court... no one else....

I was just checking....:hug:

I know when I lost mine and did my own application I had to get the PP to approve my application before I submitted to Registry so that it would be easier....

On the day it was funny cause the 2 guys before me were DIC offenders applying for a limited licence...when it was my turn the Judge said "well after the last 2 I can hardly say no can I"...I wee hint to the previous guys suggesting that Judge was not happy about them but had no choice...

[Hinny]

It does seem as though the road markers got a super bulk buy deal on yellow, limited life paint. The no passing lines on roads are kind of nutty. FFS we don't really need to be told we can't pass around blind corners.
Between Taurtanga and Katikati there are just about unbroken no-passing lines. I got caught behind a tractor going about 17kph. Ended up with a huge queue behing me. Plenty of straight strewtches of road where I could have passed except for the no passing lines. I find this sort of thing idiotic. In my opinion it would have the opposite effect to that which is desirable. Make peolpe think if there are no lines on the road it must be OK to pass.

Graeme, what the hell were you thinking passing on no-passing lines?

[Hinny]

Fucken
Tiny
Penis...

This forum is not a confessional.

[caseye]

Oh, now that must hurt!
Nice off the "hip" shot there Hinny.

[Hinny]

I am a snot nosed grot with me arse hangin out the top of me pants who can do what he likes and fuck everyone else .......

As above... this is not a confessional.

You had me in a dilemma Patrick trying to work you out and then I remembered you are not from the 'Naki. You're a relocated Jaffa.
That explains it.
Or alternatively, like John Banks, you boxed as a young man.

[Gremlin]

Most of these are done for sentencing purposes, seeking a limited license. Then, prosecutions is involved.

Loss of license over demerits is a matter between the license loser and the approving court... no one else....
If applying for a limited license, it is best to send it to prosecution, and see if they will not oppose the application. If they do, the likelihood of having your limited license application denied is much greater.

It almost becomes a rubber stamp, if prosecution does not oppose, judge will normally approve it with little thought.

Plenty of time spent on it too, as it goes back and forth, as you do what you can to make the license as flexible as possible, while they think work is from 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday (don't I fricken wish).

[Toaster]

Police officers don't actively discourage speeding by any other means than to issue infringement notices. Remember that.

Not true. Other policies are used. One example is having to park in a marked patrol car prior to a high crash rate area for a number of hours each shift to help remind people to slow down. An extremely boring role to fulfill and one that brought in next to no productivity (tickets issued), but this was done based on research that showed that general driving behaviour improved for an average of 15 minutes after seeing the police car.

The desired effect was to reduce the crash rate in these high risk areas. One for the boffins and stats nerds in intel to work out.

After that time.... well it's back to funding the doughnuts.

[twinkle]

The countries with the lowest death rates in Europe, Germany and Italy, have the highest speed limits. Unlimited in many places.<object height="344" width="425"></object>

Only on the motorway outside of the cities where traffic is separated by a solid barrier. We hardly have any motorways outside of cities in NZ, maybe only north and south of Auckland, and only for a short distance.
It is 100km/hr or less all other places.
And they have spectacular crashes sometimes ;) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8159290.stm

[Patrick]

As above... this is not a confessional.

You had me in a dilemma Patrick trying to work you out and then I remembered you are not from the 'Naki. You're a relocated Jaffa.
That explains it.
Or alternatively, like John Banks, you boxed as a young man.

Confessional?

Thought you had forgotten the main part in your post......

Right on both counts tho. Relocated 8 years ago.

I lost a scrap once, so took up boxing in Glen Eden.:2thumbsup

[Hinny]

Not true. Other policies are used. One example is having to park in a marked patrol car prior to a high crash rate area for a number of hours each shift to help remind people to slow down. An extremely boring role to fulfill and one that brought in next to no productivity (tickets issued), but this was done based on research that showed that general driving behaviour improved for an average of 15 minutes after seeing the police car.

The desired effect was to reduce the crash rate in these high risk areas. One for the boffins and stats nerds in intel to work out.

After that time.... well it's back to funding the doughnuts.

Another fkawed policy in my opinion. Part of the dopey policy they have adopted.
Whereverf you see Patrol cars on Motorways at peak times you see compression waves being created and accidents and near misses happening. They create congestion simply by being parked on the side of the road.
If the people who implement these policies took the time to get in the air they would see how dopey this policy is.

[Hinny]

I lost a scrap once, so took up boxing in Glen Eden.:2thumbsup

That explains it then.

[NinjaNanna]

Not true. Other policies are used. One example is having to park in a marked patrol car prior to a high crash rate area for a number of hours each shift to help remind people to slow down. An extremely boring role to fulfill and one that brought in next to no productivity (tickets issued), but this was done based on research that showed that general driving behaviour improved for an average of 15 minutes after seeing the police car.

The desired effect was to reduce the crash rate in these high risk areas. One for the boffins and stats nerds in intel to work out.

After that time.... well it's back to funding the doughnuts.

Interesting I've always thought that the move to undercover cars was wrong - as you say a visible presence within the community works.

hiding in unmarked cars trying to catch speeders does not work as well on the community at large. As far as I can see an unmarked car will only catch those who unwittingly overtake said car, meanwhile every car traveling in the other direction is obvilious to the policing that is going on.

[scuzeme]

I gave up road riding to save myself from getting tickets and got into track riding to get my adrenalin fix....on the way to a Manfeild Track day with my bike ontop of my ute i got a ticket for speeding and then got another one same day on the way home :( it was an expensive day.

Im definitely selling my Duke if this stuff becomes law, there gunna have so many ppl losing their licenses it wont be funny.

[oldrider]

Was talking to a copper the other morning, he told me that the demerit system for speeding was changing next year. Apparently there is going to be a flat fine for all speeds, instead of the levels that are current at the moment. And the demerits are going to double. For example, going 14km over the limit gets you an $80 fine and 20 demerits, correct? Im not sure what the fine will be but the demerits will be 40. And more good news, on public holiday weekends, the demerits double. So you would get 80. He said they are bringing this in for Easter weekend. Any one else heard this?

Typical NZ political reaction, punish those that care because they will conform! :angry2: (and pay up)

The real "serious offenders" don't pay, don't care and don't change their behaviour anyway!

So lets kid ourselves that we are "doing something positive" by beating shit out of the easy compliant targets! :doh: Bloody :tugger:

[mowgli]

But if you get caught doing 120 on a public holiday, you've just lost your licence.
So if you're gonna get caught speeding you might as well be caught speeding big. You lose your licence either way.

This is going to encourage more runners...
Agreed

[Thani-B]

So if you're gonna get caught speeding you might as well be caught speeding big. You lose your licence either way.


Exactly. So on a public holiday, if you feel like speeding, may as well do it properly. He said flat fine so it will be the same no matter how fast you are going.

Oh but I did hear that they were only going to write off the 100 points you had when you lost your licence, so if you had 120 points you would still have 20 on it when you got it back. Again, not sure if this is correct. So if that is the case, maybe you wouldnt want to do the above.

[p.dath]

Typical NZ political reaction, punish those that care because they will conform! :angry2: (and pay up)

The real "serious offenders" don't pay, don't care and don't change their behaviour anyway!

So lets kid ourselves that we are "doing something positive" by beating shit out of the easy compliant targets! :doh: Bloody :tugger:

But this is not about trying to make people pay more. In fact, most people will have a smaller fine to pay.
Its about issuing more demerit points. You don't have a choice - they just go on your licence.

[p.dath]

Exactly. So on a public holiday, if you feel like speeding, may as well do it properly. He said flat fine so it will be the same no matter how fast you are going.

Oh but I did hear that they were only going to write off the 100 points you had when you lost your licence, so if you had 120 points you would still have 20 on it when you got it back. Again, not sure if this is correct. So if that is the case, maybe you wouldnt want to do the above.

The message about demerit points quadrupling on a public holiday is wrong. And of course, if you "flat line" your bike (assuming you don't have a 50cc scooter) you more likely to loose your licence instantly, plus potentially face a dangerous driving charge. So that's crazy talk.

If you get your licence suspended, your demerit points go back to zero.

[caseye]

So if you're gonna get caught speeding you might as well be caught speeding big. You lose your licence either way.

Agreed

Whatever the actual case may be it concerns me to see people stating this sort of behaviour is Ok. It's not, run and what next, pass on a double yellow round a blind bend to lose the copper???? On Ya's! bloody fools, come on better that someone who is concerned enough about what is being said goes to the actual authority in charge of this stuff and ASKs, whats really going on.
Thani I'm sure you are telling it how it has been relayed to you, no worries there, but I'd want to see this at least in draught form from Govt before I took it seriously.
Cheers mowgli now I know I'll look hard into it, did that make sense?

[Thani-B]

The message about demerit points quadrupling on a public holiday is wrong.

Well it wont be.. Normal demerits are going to double. So the normal for then will be doubled for public holidays. Thats not quadrupling for what they will be then if copper was telling me the truth



If you get your licence suspended, your demerit points go back to zero.

T'was a different copper that told me otherwise.

[Zuki lover]

only time before they bring it in here .... boo hoo :crybaby:

[p.dath]

Well it wont be.. Normal demerits are going to double. So the normal for then will be doubled for public holidays. Thats not quadrupling for what they will be then if copper was telling me the truth

T'was a different copper that told me otherwise.

That would imply that demerit points are doubled on a public holiday now - which I don't believe is the case. I can't find anything that says this.

So that would mean demerit points would quadruple on a public holiday, if they are not doubled now.

[Thani-B]

That would imply that demerit points are doubled on a public holiday now - which I don't believe is the case. I can't find anything that says this.

So that would mean demerit points would quadruple on a public holiday, if they are not doubled now.

You've totally lost me so Im going to give up lol. I dont know how else to explain it.

[caseye]

It's alright Thani, we know what you mean.

[Chrislost]

I read the first post as saying the demirits rise, not the fine. I can recall the govt saying a while back they were doing this ... sort of removes the "revenue gathering" argument doesn't it? Less money but more pedestrians.
I personally feel that they should hit shit drivers rather then speedsters.

[Coldrider]

You've totally lost me so Im going to give up lol. I dont know how else to explain it.OMG! normal people give up....

[Thani-B]

OMG! normal people give up....

Id hardly call myself normal lol. Im just lazy. And p.dath just doesnt get what I mean.

[oldrider]

But this is not about trying to make people pay more. In fact, most people will have a smaller fine to pay.
Its about issuing more demerit points. You don't have a choice - they just go on your licence.

With respect, by "pay" I don't necessarily mean money, I mean loss of licence to real honest working people is a "big deal" a real inconvenience!

Those that don't care, don't pay, don't give a stuff, will just carry on! (the way recidivist drunk drivers do and get away with it!)

It's like the gun laws, the smacking laws and the dangerous dog laws, nothing ever really changes!

Except for the people who try hard to stand by the laws anyway! :angry2: Ordinary Joe citizen, to be exact! :kick:

[McJim]

I can cycle to work for six months - no probs there. Will even save myself 6 months road tax and a warrant of fitness. I've seen someone stung for $300+ in a single speeding incident - I'd have to pay that up in installments.

However for some people making the stakes that high may mean loss of licence = loss of employment = loss of home, family and essentially life as they know it. People who fall into that group will know they're fucked anyway so will risk doing the runner because if they do the runner successfully then they will not be fucked.

Fucked for 120km+ and you stop for the cops
Fucked if you run and get caught
Safe if you run and make it.

What other choice has been given the people in this group? (apart from the ol' don't speed in the first place for which it is too late in this hypothesis)

[p.dath]

However for some people making the stakes that high may mean loss of licence = loss of employment = loss of home, family and essentially life as they know it. People who fall into that group will know they're fucked anyway so will risk doing the runner because if they do the runner successfully then they will not be fucked.

Fucked for 120km+ and you stop for the cops
Fucked if you run and get caught
Safe if you run and make it.

What other choice has been given the people in this group? (apart from the ol' don't speed in the first place for which it is too late in this hypothesis)

There has always been provision to get a "day licence" for those who loose there licence where it would cause undue hardship beyond the offence committed. Day licences are commonly and regularly issued.
So I can't accept that as a reason for doing a runner.

However do a runner, and get caught, and you'll probably end up with a criminal conviction.
That means you're going to have problems getting lots of jobs. You wont be able to travel to most developed countries in the world anymore. Pretty much, your going to really screw yourself over badly.

Worse still, don't get caught but the Police manage to ID you, and issue a warrant for your arrest. Now you could potentially be arrested any time. You definitely can never leave the country because you'll be detained on the spot.


Doing a runner would be a bad choice - no matter what.

[p.dath]

With respect, by "pay" I don't necessarily mean money, I mean loss of licence to real honest working people is a "big deal" a real inconvenience!

Those that don't care, don't pay, don't give a stuff, will just carry on! (the way recidivist drunk drivers do and get away with it!)

It's like the gun laws, the smacking laws and the dangerous dog laws, nothing ever really changes!

Except for the people who try hard to stand by the laws anyway! :angry2: Ordinary Joe citizen, to be exact! :kick:

But "real honest working people" wont have an issue unless they repeatedly speed and get caught over a two year period. If you need your licence, and don't want to accept the consequences - don't speed. It really is that simple.

There is likely to be tougher changes with regards to recidivist drivers. We need to wait and see the outcome of the Safer Journeys discussion first. I'm hoping for a greater level of vehicle confiscation. Simply take the car off those that repeatedly break the the law to that degree and simply don't care.
Eventually they end up "no mates Nigel". No one will dare let them near their vehicle, and they'll run out of vehicles of their own.

[McJim]

There has always been provision to get a "day licence" for those who loose there licence where it would cause undue hardship beyond the offence committed. Day licences are commonly and regularly issued.
So I can't accept that as a reason for doing a runner.

Doing a runner would be a bad choice - no matter what.

Takes too long to apply for a day licence - their job would have been long gone.

And I wasn't talking about me doing a runner:shifty:

This is all hypothesis anyway isn't it? Apparently they still give driving licences to people who can near enough drive rather than continually failing people until they really can drive properly.

All they need to do is fail the fuckwits contuinually until they give up and NZ roads will be a safer place. Worked well in blighty.

[p.dath]

Takes too long to apply for a day licence - their job would have been long gone.


Mate, if your job is that important then it's real simple, don't repeatedly speed over a two year period. All people have to do is slow down to the limit. It's really simple.

[oldrider]

Mate, if your job is that important then it's real simple, don't repeatedly speed over a two year period. All people have to do is slow down to the limit. It's really simple.

Good grief. You are obviously the son of a (broken down) Methodist minister! Get a life man! :argh:

[Hinny]

... Im going to give up


But "real honest working people" wont have an issue unless they repeatedly speed and get caught over a two year period. If you need your licence, and don't want to accept the consequences - don't speed. It really is that simple.

There is likely to be tougher changes with regards to recidivist drivers. We need to wait and see the outcome of the Safer Journeys discussion first. I'm hoping for a greater level of vehicle confiscation. Simply take the car off those that repeatedly break the the law to that degree and simply don't care.
Eventually they end up "no mates Nigel". No one will dare let them near their vehicle, and they'll run out of vehicles of their own.

You need to follow Thani's lead here.
Mind you, given that you seem to have totally 'lost it', I can't see you have anything to give... up, down or sideways.

[ynot slow]

Mate, if your job is that important then it's real simple, don't repeatedly speed over a two year period. All people have to do is slow down to the limit. It's really simple.

I had to get a work license,had to wait 1 month from sentancing to apply,had to take my boss to court,just incase the judge wanted to ask him if my job was on the line.Hardest part was working out the restriction,i.e Saturday from 9-12 when working(as it was every 2 or 3rd Sat was thrown out)mine was from 8-6pm,and had to stipulate the area,that meant making it as small a boundary as we dared.Mine off hand was based from Hawera,upto Rahotu across to Stratford and down to Patea.

When I worked for another company,the managing director lost his license for demerits,applied for work license and was told not worth it for 2 months,and he had business open 7 days.He got his son to drive him,as was in holidays and son had full so wasn't bad,or got his wife or other staff to drive him.

[Hinny]

Interesting I've always thought that the move to undercover cars was wrong - as you say a visible presence within the community works.

hiding in unmarked cars trying to catch speeders does not work as well on the community at large.

This is part of the 'Speed Kills' policy.
Studies have revealed a 50% increase in the road toll when this policy has been introduced.
Another of those counter intuitive policies. Like drug laws, morality laws, ...
The harder the push, the worse the outcome.

[Patrick]

Well it wont be.. Normal demerits are going to double.

It is a discussion document, not "this is going to happen... I "believe" what is being discussed is that demerits may be doubled on public holidays only, like they do in Oz. Not doubled now...

The other "option" is that demirits will be doubled out of course. No doubling at public holiday time. It's one or the other??????

T'was a different copper that told me otherwise.

The demerit system is "supposed" to be like that. Lose your license under the demerit system, you lose 100 points. If you had 150 points, you still have 50 when it is returned to you in three months time. I have seen this actually occur.

BUT, the system seems stuffed up. I have also seen people have the slate wiped clean with over 300 and in some cases, 500 demerits stacked up. Lose the license for 3 months only, and all 300 or 500 points were gone, clean record.


That would imply that demerit points are doubled on a public holiday now - which I don't believe is the case. I can't find anything that says this.

See above. It's a discussion document.

One or the other, not both...?


But "real honest working people" wont have an issue unless they repeatedly speed and get caught over a two year period. If you need your licence, and don't want to accept the consequences - don't speed. It really is that simple.....


Mate, if your job is that important then it's real simple, don't repeatedly speed over a two year period. All people have to do is slow down to the limit. It's really simple.

Re-Quoted for simplicity and truth. But hey, the laws of the land don't apply to some KBers, ay?

[Patrick]

This is part of the 'Speed Kills' policy.
Studies have revealed a 50% increase in the road toll when this policy has been introduced.
Another of those counter intuitive policies. Like drug laws, morality laws, ...
The harder the push, the worse the outcome.

Which might have something to do with the fact hat the plain cars are leaving the fleet, in many cases. The plain snake car here, for example, was taken from them.

[NinjaNanna]

Which might have something to do with the fact hat the plain cars are leaving the fleet, in many cases. The plain snake car here, for example, was taken from them.

This is good news, in my view only non-commissioned and undercover cops should drive unmarked vehicles.

[Ixion]

This is good news, in my view only non-commissioned and undercover cops should drive unmarked vehicles.

Technically, all cops are non commissioned. Every police officer holds the office of constable, under Her Majesty's warrant , not commission. (And may hold rank of Sergeant, Inspector, Lord High Fuck-a-Duck etc)

If the SneakySnakeMobiles are going, that is good news.

[DMCD]

Bugger, to be perfectly honest, its pretty hard not to speed at some point im up to 60dp, the first time I was trying to be sneaky and do 88k's in a 80 zone and got pinged for 110 and the second time was when I was speeding up just before the 100k zone just before Onewa turn off coming from the city and got pinged for 99ks in an 80 zone both of them were chase not radar or laser.

Often I find my bike going a tad over if I look away fro a sec or go down a hill not to mention that bike spedo's are notoriously unreliable.

I guess it will just be a matter of luck for most of the responsible riders.

[McJim]

Mate, if your job is that important then it's real simple, don't repeatedly speed over a two year period. All people have to do is slow down to the limit. It's really simple.

Can't you read? I don't need a licence for work --- at all ---- I am talking about other people - and I'm not your mate. I don't know you from a bar of soap.

Maybe that was a bit harsh. If you knew me and had read some of my posts you would know that since obtaiing a drivers licence in 1987 I have never had a speeding ticket from a cop or a camera in UK, Italy or New Zealand. I don't condone speeding on the open road. I report drivers that do stupid and dangerous things in built up areas. I have never even had a parking ticket I am so good at obeying the law.

HOWEVER. I have observed New Zealanders' behaviour on the road in the past 5 years I've been here and it's not good. I therefore predict that such harsh imposition of bans WILL result in a dramatic increase in runners and the associated fatalities.

I just get pissed off with some people's inability to fully read the posts put in front of them - you obviously have a job where attention to detail and observational skills are not required. Don't bother to reply as you are now on my huge ignore list :)

[caseye]

Can't you read? I don't need a licence for work --- at all ---- I am talking about other people - and I'm not your mate. I don't know you from a bar of soap.

Maybe that was a bit harsh. If you knew me and had read some of my posts you would know that since obtaiing a drivers licence in 1987 I have never had a speeding ticket from a cop or a camera in UK, Italy or New Zealand. I don't condone speeding on the open road. I report drivers that do stupid and dangerous things in built up areas. I have never even had a parking ticket I am so good at obeying the law.

HOWEVER. I have observed New Zealanders' behaviour on the road in the past 5 years I've been here and it's not good. I therefore predict that such harsh imposition of bans WILL result in a dramatic increase in runners and the associated fatalities.

I just get pissed off with some people's inability to fully read the posts put in front of them - you obviously have a job where attention to detail and observational skills are not required. Don't bother to reply as you are now on my huge ignore list :)

Seems to me you've just done the smartest thing possible, that makes you someone to be admired.
Yes the pity is that some will take flight instead of making sure they simply obey the posted speeds.
Nice post.

[Hinny]

If the SneakySnakeMobiles are going, that is good news.

The Haszard County Sneaky Snake-mobile was going last night.
Going Hell for Leather that is! Ginga showing off again?
Howling tyres as it braked for and then rounded the corner by the pub.

Hey Patrick,
I heard last night that you were a good c**t.
Karma at work.
Good on yer mate.
...........:2thumbsup............

[scumdog]

This is part of the 'Speed Kills' policy.
Studies have revealed a 50% increase in the road toll when this policy has been introduced.
Another of those counter intuitive policies. Like drug laws, morality laws, ...
The harder the push, the worse the outcome.

And the road toll has risen 43% since GST went to 12.5%.....:crazy:

[Coldrider]

And the road toll has risen 43% since GST went to 12.5%.....:crazy:Prompt payment discounts in $ and demerits would help, as would a 'road side' loyalty card.

[Grahameeboy]

I had to get a work license,had to wait 1 month from sentancing to apply,had to take my boss to court,just incase the judge wanted to ask him if my job was on the line.Hardest part was working out the restriction,i.e Saturday from 9-12 when working(as it was every 2 or 3rd Sat was thrown out)mine was from 8-6pm,and had to stipulate the area,that meant making it as small a boundary as we dared.Mine off hand was based from Hawera,upto Rahotu across to Stratford and down to Patea.

When I worked for another company,the managing director lost his license for demerits,applied for work license and was told not worth it for 2 months,and he had business open 7 days.He got his son to drive him,as was in holidays and son had full so wasn't bad,or got his wife or other staff to drive him.

I got my limited licence the same day I handed my licence in and went to Court so puzzled it took you a month...and my location was Auckland Region and I could go to the shops, get petrol when I did not have my Daughter

[Grahameeboy]

Can't you read? I don't need a licence for work --- at all ---- I am talking about other people - and I'm not your mate. I don't know you from a bar of soap.

Maybe that was a bit harsh. If you knew me and had read some of my posts you would know that since obtaiing a drivers licence in 1987 I have never had a speeding ticket from a cop or a camera in UK, Italy or New Zealand. I don't condone speeding on the open road. I report drivers that do stupid and dangerous things in built up areas. I have never even had a parking ticket I am so good at obeying the law.

HOWEVER. I have observed New Zealanders' behaviour on the road in the past 5 years I've been here and it's not good. I therefore predict that such harsh imposition of bans WILL result in a dramatic increase in runners and the associated fatalities.

I just get pissed off with some people's inability to fully read the posts put in front of them - you obviously have a job where attention to detail and observational skills are not required. Don't bother to reply as you are now on my huge ignore list :)

From 1979 to 2005 I was conviction, not tickets, not cameras and it has all been downhill since with speeding tickets...I had a good run

[Grahameeboy]

And the road toll has risen 43% since GST went to 12.5%.....:crazy:

I blame the sigmoid curve myself...:2thumbsup

[Hinny]

Have you been drinking?

[thepom]

I think Mcjim is a bit stressed...chill mr mcjim......

[Rincewind]

I read the first post as saying the demirits rise, not the fine. I can recall the govt saying a while back they were doing this ... sort of removes the "revenue gathering" argument doesn't it? Less money but more pedestrians. Bus companies will be rubbing their hands together :)

edit: I guess if the 'flat fine' is higher than the lowest current fine there's an increase ... butthe main impact would be to hit you in the licence, not the back pocket ....

I'll lay odds on the fact that the bean counters have done their sums and the revenue will probably double somehow,they will probably do it by increasing the monthly quota's that the mobile Pokie machine drivers have to acheive in order to avoid being up for performance revue's......so expect them to be hiding behind the hedges and barriers for longer periods of time.
With this extra revinue they will be able to afford to errect lots and lots more fixed camera's,I guess it's their way of reducing traffic congestion.

I'm considering installing a Radar detector at the moment,but in reality I would like to fit a missile launcher in the boot and blow the pricks up as soon as they light up their silly christmas lights BOOM...,get a fucking reading on that Ya Bastard Ha Ha

[seemehi]

So, it looks as if it will become easier to lose your licence - is that your motorbike licence or car licence - I get confused, bloody pc world.

[Thani-B]

So, it looks as if it will become easier to lose your licence - is that your motorbike licence or car licence - I get confused, bloody pc world.

Both. You cant lose one and keep the other. I dont think.

[NinjaNanna]

Both. You cant lose one and keep the other. I dont think.

Be real nice if you could though.

[Thani-B]

Be real nice if you could though.

Yeah but then it would hardly be a punishment. In their eyes. One of my friends lost his for doing 172km/h on the motorway. He lost both.

[avgas]

Is it just me, or does this make sense.

As it stands - at 145kph you walk home, yet 135kph you only lose 40pts
Seeing as we have 100 of the suckers, I don't mind this change to 80pts - I only get 1 ticket every 2 years, if i get a second its over the 40kmh barrier anywho.
I may even rent/swap the SRX out to those of you that need to "not get another ticket for 6 months"

[scuzeme]

........pretty soon we will all have to sit down to take a pee :(

[Patrick]

Is it just me, or does this make sense.

As it stands - at 145kph you walk home, yet 135kph you only lose 40pts
Seeing as we have 100 of the suckers, I don't mind this change to 80pts - I only get 1 ticket every 2 years, if i get a second its over the 40kmh barrier anywho.
I may even rent/swap the SRX out to those of you that need to "not get another ticket for 6 months"

At 145, walk for 28 days... and get the 50 demerits with the $510 instant fine. At 146, the fine goes up to $630

[puddytat]

Makes all the more sense to get a racebike.....
Tis slowly turning into a police state I reckon, with the excuse of being for the greater good.
I have to renew my gun license & the sods want nearly 130 bucks for that, yet I just renewed my drivers license & that was 30 odd if i remember correctly....dont look much different to a drivers license so why the cost:mad:
Unclefuckers!!