Speeding

[Morcs]

This is part troll, part serious...

The question is:

Are all the people on here who say things like:

Dont speed
Dont break the law
Do the crime pay the fine

all that anti speeding nazi crap, well my question is, is it just because they cant ride above the speed limit? are scared or incapable at handling a motorcycle at a whopping speed of 120kph?

Or do they just like being authoritarians on the internet?

Im intrigued.

Discuss.

[vifferman]

Discuss.
No.
This isn't school, y'know.

[Morcs]

Really?

I thought we are all here to learn?

[Digitdion]

Both! To many people claim to be angels regarding speeding.The others are funny sarcastic bastards.

[red675]

met a guy with a new Triumph Daytona who claimed never to have exceeded 120kph - never could work out why he didn't just buy a step-thru

[The Pastor]

or maybe they have respect for the laws that govern our country and dont see why they should be able to only follow the rules they choose?

[DVS 69]

They all seem soooo high and mighty eh:argh:. I find riding at 100kph actually very boring on either of my bikes to the point its probibly a distraction. I think when your riding faster (back roads) your in that moment so your sense's/feelers are scoping out everything which seems safer to me than riding at 100kph following some fuckwit in a car that hasnt indicated doesnt know where theyre going .... Doesnt know your even behind them !! I hate this subject really cos i dont have much time for the hardcore 100kph flatout riders that aint riding to me, i could teach my 10 year old to do that.

[p.dath]

:)

Public roads are created for the good of the majority of the public, and as a result, are subject to crown laws to protect the good of the majority of the public.

Commerical facilities, like tracks, also have rules, to protect those that use the facility. Commercial facilities are built for a different purpose, so that's why.

Then of course, you can just buy your land, build your own track on it, have your own rules, and do what you want. So if you have the money to pay the fine for the crime, why not just build your own private facility, and keep everyone else on public roads safe?

[red675]

they're not so much laws as guidelines (or at least they were when I took up riding) and it's only tossers that refer to breaking a speed limit as committing a crime - in fact they are not criminal offences

[Morcs]

or maybe they have respect for the laws that govern our country and dont see why they should be able to only follow the rules they choose?

Shuddup you.


:)

Public roads are created for the good of the majority of the public, and as a result, are subject to crown laws to protect the good of the majority of the public.

Commerical facilities, like tracks, also have rules, to protect those that use the facility. Commercial facilities are built for a different purpose, so that's why.

Then of course, you can just buy your land, build your own track on it, have your own rules, and do what you want. So if you have the money to pay the fine for the crime, why not just build your own private facility, and keep everyone else on public roads safe?

So why dont you buy an Fxr150?

If I was riding say auckland to wellington, on the main highways, with just quick fuel/smoke stops, and maybe a lunch, gaurenteed more likely to die doing 100kph all the way rather than sitting at 120-140. FACT.
But of course there is always the cop U-turn factor...

[Jantar]

This is part troll, part serious...

The question is:

Are all the people on here who say things like:

Dont speed
Dont break the law
Do the crime pay the fine

all that anti speeding nazi crap, well my question is, is it just because they cant ride above the speed limit? are scared or incapable at handling a motorcycle at a whopping speed of 120kph?

Or do they just like being authoritarians on the internet?

Im intrigued.

Discuss.

Only a few people say Dont speed.

Slightly more say Dont break the law. (You do realise that speeding is breaking a rule rather than a law?)

Most say Do the crime pay the fine.

I'm intriqued as to why you would lump all those people into one single group?

[Patrick]

This is part troll, part serious...

The question is:

Are all the people on here who say things like:

Dont speed
Dont break the law
Do the crime pay the fine

all that anti speeding nazi crap, well my question is, is it just because they cant ride above the speed limit? are scared or incapable at handling a motorcycle at a whopping speed of 120kph?

Or do they just like being authoritarians on the internet?

Im intrigued.

Discuss.

No.

Probably sick of hearing about, "I was only speeding and I got another ticket from that nasty pig, now he has taken my license because I am a slow learner from all the other speeding tickets I have got...:crybaby::crybaby::crybaby:" type of thing....

But I could be wrong......


met a guy with a new Triumph Daytona who claimed never to have exceeded 120kph - never could work out why he didn't just buy a step-thru

He's lying.

675 or bigger? The 675 won't do anything under 120.....:whistle:

[Coldrider]

The crime is in not speeding, it is being caught speeding.
I'm sorry officer...............

[p.dath]

...
So why dont you buy an Fxr150?

If I was riding say auckland to wellington, on the main highways, with just quick fuel/smoke stops, and maybe a lunch, gaurenteed more likely to die doing 100kph all the way rather than sitting at 120-140. FACT.
But of course there is always the cop U-turn factor...

I wanted something with more acceleration.

I'm curious about your last statement. So how are you more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h, that you say is a fact? What have you based this "fact" on?

[Coldrider]

I wanted something with more acceleration.

I'm curious about your last statement. So how are you more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h, that you say is a fact? What have you based this "fact" on?
The faster you go, relatively, the slower everyone else is around you. At 200kph, everyone else is virtually stopped. Like flies avoiding a swot.

[wbks]

I wanted something with more acceleration.

I'm curious about your last statement. So how are you more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h, that you say is a fact? What have you based this "fact" on?Probably on the arguable point that doing 100 on anything over 250cc's is quite boring, and you spend more time glancing at the speedo trying to keep it at 100 than you watch the road

[Morcs]

Probably on the arguable point that doing 100 on anything over 250cc's is quite boring, and you spend more time glancing at the speedo trying to keep it at 100 than you do on the road

Agreed


I wanted something with more acceleration.

I'm curious about your last statement. So how are you more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h, that you say is a fact? What have you based this "fact" on?

You obviously havent spent much time over 200. Its simply impossible to keep the mind occupied at 100kph as everything is happening too slowly. You lose concerntration, which increases chance for error. Of course its arguable that when that happens, you arent at high speed so its going to hurt less, but its negligable as its still gonna hurt.

Faster acceleration? So you need to get from 0 to 100 in 3 seconds? doing that everywhere is unsafer than sitting at a constant high speed.

[ManDownUnder]

A thinking man's thread... bloody good stuff Morcs.

I think it's a case of been there done that nothing left to prove for me.

I'm not king of the hill in terms of speed and riding - I know it. I have nothing left to prove to myself and am quite capable of going for a decent blat when the mood takes me, and I thoroughly enjoy it when the mood strikes.

I also have 3 gorgeous little people to come home to and for me that does moderate things a bit. It's a view of the world you genuinely will never understand until you get there.

The "you do the crime you do the time" aspect of things is simply maturity. No point bitching about it if you knew the rules and broke them without good reason. Manning up to your responsibilities in respect of a fair cop is part of being adult. To put it bluntly those that don't are either shirkers (wanting a fun easy life without paying for it) or childish in the sense that "I'll get away with it... or get let off".

You'll find the law is heartless in that respect. It doesn't care so much what the reason was, unless there is a greater good being served. Doing 200 kph down the motorway is bad if you're out for a blast... it's good if you have a life and death situation and you're rushing them to hospital.

[ManDownUnder]

I'm curious about your last statement. So how are you more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h, that you say is a fact? What have you based this "fact" on?

umm - what?

Common sense says you get 100/120ths of the reaction time should anything happen... so the chances of a random "oopsie" having an effect are increased. by 20%

Physics says that you have 44% more kinetic energy at 120 than at 100 so that oopsie just got a lot more painful with an increased likelihood of being terminal, especially if that ebergy gets imparted to you all at once (i.e. are stopped by a tree rather than the friction of the tarseal).

[Morcs]

A thinking man's thread... bloody good stuff Morcs.

I think it's a case of been there done that nothing left to prove for me.

I'm not king of the hill in terms of speed and riding - I know it. I have nothing left to prove to myself and am quite capable of going for a decent blat when the mood takes me, and I thoroughly enjoy it when the mood strikes.

I also have 3 gorgeous little people to come home to and for me that does moderate things a bit. It's a view of the world you genuinely will never understand until you get there.

The "you do the crime you do the time" aspect of things is simply maturity. No point bitching about it if you knew the rules and broke them without good reason. Manning up to your responsibilities in respect of a fair cop is part of being adult. To put it bluntly those that don't are either shirkers wanting a fun easy life without paying for it) or childish in the sense that "I'll get away with it... or get let off".

You'll find the law is heartless in that respect. It doesn't care so much what the reason was, unless there is a greater good being served. doing 200 kph down the motorway is bad if you're out for a blast... it's good if you have a life and death situation and you're rushing them to hospital.

Agree with all your points Nigel.

Though im not talking about going balls to the wall everywhere, or egos or whatnot, just wondering what the story is with all the people that seem to disagree quite strongly with doing reasonable speeds (like 120) - I believe at that sort of speed, reasons for not speeding (now talking higher speed, 140+) such as, previous crashes, license losses, kids etc.. I feel dont apply.

[ManDownUnder]

Agree with all your points Nigel.

Though im not talking about going balls to the wall everywhere, or egos or whatnot, just wondering what the story is with all the people that seem to disagree quite strongly with doing reasonable speeds (like 120) - I believe at that sort of speed, reasons for not speeding (now talking higher speed, 140+) such as, previous crashes, license losses, kids etc.. I feel dont apply.


aaaa gotcha. Then I'd say it's people that need external rules in their own lives expecting others to need the same. They tend to stand out by being involved in organised... "stuff"

Church, committees, etc

[Morcs]

umm - what?

Common sense says you get 100/120ths of the reaction time should anything happen... so the chances of a random "oopsie" having an effect are increased. by 20%

Physics says that you have 44% more kinetic energy at 120 than at 100 so that oopsie just got a lot more painful with an increased likelihood of being terminal, especially if that ebergy gets imparted to you all at once (i.e. are stopped by a tree rather than the friction of the tarseal).

Depends on your reaction times - yes the faster you go, the bigger the mess, but when you become attuned to riding a higher speeds, 100kph is bloody dangerous!

On a bike, id estimate to be comfortable at doing 150 as I am doing 100 in a cage. The size of a motorcycle gives an increased feel of awareness around it, as well as the riding position giving you a much more focused mentality than in a car.

[wbks]

Maybe it's one of those things where people feel the need to show how much better they are than everyone else. The one that goes out of their way to show how not-racist they are, how respectful they are to the law, how caring they are towards the new generation of children (R18 channel comes on sky="OMG wont somebody please think of teh children!!!")... I think everyone knows the type... They're usually in every church, committee or BOT within an 8 hour drive of their house

[ManDownUnder]

Depends on your reaction times - yes the faster you go, the bigger the mess, but when you become attuned to riding a higher speeds, 100kph is bloody dangerous!

For you, or for the others sharing the tarseal with you?

[Morcs]

aaaa gotcha. Then I'd say it's people that need extwernal rules in their own lives expecting others to need the same. They tend to stand out by being involved in organised... "stuff"

Church, committees, etc


Maybe it's one of those things where people feel the need to show how much better they are than everyone else. The one that goes out of their way to show how not-racist they are, how respectful they are to the law, how caring they are towards the new generation of children (R18 channel comes on sky="OMG wont somebody please think of teh children!!!")... I think everyone knows the type...

Nail on the head.

Wonder if we can group them together so we can ban them from sections of the forum :2thumbsup, just for those who want to speak about certain stuff knowing damn well the consequences without threads being invaded by these people who feel compelled to point out the obvious...
I think it should be classed as spam to go into a 'I got a ticket today thread' and tell them they shouldntve been speeding. Well Duh!

[NighthawkNZ]

Only a few people say Dont speed.

Slightly more say Dont break the law. (You do realise that speeding is breaking a rule rather than a law?)

Most say Do the crime pay the fine.

I'm intriqued as to why you would lump all those people into one single group?

yup... most also say time and place... and if you get court don't come on here whinging about it... we all do it...

I just never admit that I do... I'm not that stupid




I think it's a case of been there done that nothing left to prove for me..

Same here been there done that got the t-shirt... meh so what

[NDORFN]

umm - what?

Common sense says you get 100/120ths of the reaction time should anything happen... so the chances of a random "oopsie" having an effect are increased. by 20%

Physics says that you have 44% more kinetic energy at 120 than at 100 so that oopsie just got a lot more painful with an increased likelihood of being terminal, especially if that ebergy gets imparted to you all at once (i.e. are stopped by a tree rather than the friction of the tarseal).

If there's 44% more kinetic energy at 120 than 100, how much less is there at 80?

[firefighter]

:)

Public roads are created for the good of the majority of the public, and as a result, are subject to crown laws to protect the good of the majority of the public.

Jesus you come up with some dribble! :zzzz:

You have'nt answered the mans question, just continued on with the same old bahlshit trollop. He was asking why people give particular responses to the speeding ticket/etc threads- not why is it illegal to speed.........:whistle:


Then of course, you can just buy your land, build your own track on it, have your own rules, and do what you want. So if you have the money to pay the fine for the crime, why not just build your own private facility, and keep everyone else on public roads safe?

Who the fuck has a spare something million to spend on building a track!?WTF? lol. :pinch:

[ManDownUnder]

If there's 44% more kinetic energy at 120 than 100, how much less is there at 80?

36% less than if you are doing 100.

[slimjim]

[QUOTE=Jantar;1129430214]Only a few people say Dont speed.

Well my Dad, never speed, gee's even to this day, he still drives at 83,always legal speed always and not even mum would ask him to speed-overtake,
however he has tophies and cups from dirt tracking solo,jawa 350, and speed way, midget owner and driver and agrade engineer, yet he has never sped on the road,me nearly 50 , different story lol

[NDORFN]

36% less than if you are doing 100.

So why don't they lower the limit to 80? The arguement for lowering is the same for not raising it (well... 8% difference).

[ManDownUnder]

So why don't they lower the limit to 80? The arguement for lowering is the same for not raising it (well... 8% difference).

Good point! Why don't we drop it to 5... or are there other considerations to be balanced off as well?

[Ixion]

There are two reasons why people may condemn "speeding".

One is simply that "speeding" is "against the rules". And some people are very rule determined. Simply, the fact that it is against the rules is why you shouldn't do it. if the gubbermint brought out a rule that everyone must put their left shoe on before the right, such people would always comply, even though there was no possible mechanism for enforcement.

If you are one of those people then the "why speed" argument is meaningless. You don't speed, because it's against the rules. End of story. What DOES puzzle me is why so many of those people buy very large bikes (usually crusiers) , capable of breaking the speed limit by a many fold factor. When their personal ethos says they won't ever do it. Why not a nice 250 or 400?

The other reason for not "speeding" is that it is more "dangerous".

Obviously, this is true. As someone noted, you have less time to respond to BadThings. And if you do hit, the splat is likely to be bigger.

However, we are bikers. Motorcycles are INHERENTLY dangerous. If we were the sort of people that were highly influenced by such calculations, we wouldn't be riding in the first place.

Personally, I make my own call. I have a "danger level" that is acceptable to me. In some circumstances that danger level may be reached at 70kph. So that's what I'll do even if the limit is 100.

In other circumstance my personal "acceptable safety level" may not be reached till 120kph. So that's what I'll do. (the possible presence of cops is factored into the "danger" calculation- cops is a danger). Or maybe even 200kph , though that'd be pretty rare. But, has happened. Danger to other road users, pedestrians, hawks etc is also factored in BTW.

I think it totally ridiculous for some bureaucrat in an office to tell me what is "safe" for me on any given piece of road. And if I am supposed to figure out what is "safe" then the bureaucrat can bugger off entirely. I'm not interested in his 100kph. It may not be safe. If I am capable of determining whether 100kph is "safe" , I am equally capable of determining if 120kph is "safe". "Safe" , for me. Only. For MY acceptable danger level. Your "safe" may be totally different to mine. You may be more, or less, willing to accept X level of danger. That is why I have no issues with faster bikes overtaking . "OK< different danger acceptance level, that's fine".

[NDORFN]

Good point! Why don't we drop it to 5... or are there other considerations to be balanced off as well?

Sure is. So what of those considerations justify a limit of 100 rather than 120? Obviously not the 44% increase in kinetic energy.

[Morcs]

Ixion is my idol.

Another angle though, Ive ridden quite happily on UK motorways, the speed limit is 70mph (call it 120kph, but precisely 116)

So if a cop pulled me over on a New Zealand motorway for doing 70mph and told me it was very dangerous speed etc etc.. thats when its stupid. Fact is everyone on UK motorways sits at around 80mph (130) and there arent many problems in relation to the sheer number of vehicles in the whole country.

Slightly higher speed has its advantages for many road users - faster journey times, maybe less traffic in some places, better fuel economy (better for the environment), and for motorcyclists less daydreaming, less pushing it uber hard in the twisties out of frustration of being stuck on mundane straight roads a few kms back, as well as less getting blown around by the wind :2thumbsup

[Jacko2]

Luv your work Ixion :2thumbsup

[paddy]

Depends on your reaction times - yes the faster you go, the bigger the mess, but when you become attuned to riding a higher speeds, 100kph is bloody dangerous!

On a bike, id estimate to be comfortable at doing 150 as I am doing 100 in a cage. The size of a motorcycle gives an increased feel of awareness around it, as well as the riding position giving you a much more focused mentality than in a car.

Morcs mate - you need to get off our roads. Come spend some time out on the ambulance, it will change your perspective. If you really want to astound everyone here about how wonderful you are and how quick your reaction times are, get out on the track and put your money where you mouth is.

Road riding is about unknowns. If you have only 10 metres to react when that dog ran out in front of you on a country road then it isn't going to matter whether you are going 80 km/h or 80 km/h you are going to hit it. I can tell you which speed I would rather go through a farmers fence at though.

I'm curious - how old are you? (Serious question.)

[NDORFN]

Morcs mate - you need to get off our roads. Come spend some time out on the ambulance, it will change your perspective. If you really want to astound everyone here about how wonderful you are and how quick your reaction times are, get out on the track and put your money where you mouth is.

Road riding is about unknowns. If you have only 10 metres to react when that dog ran out in front of you on a country road then it isn't going to matter whether you are going 80 km/h or 80 km/h you are going to hit it. I can tell you which speed I would rather go through a farmers fence at though.

I'm curious - how old are you? (Serious question.)

By your logic, we should all walk.

[ManDownUnder]

Sure is. So what of those considerations justify a limit of 100 rather than 120? Obviously not the 44% increase in kinetic energy.

ok... Why obviously not?

[Morcs]

Morcs mate - you need to get off our roads. Come spend some time out on the ambulance, it will change your perspective. If you really want to astound everyone here about how wonderful you are and how quick your reaction times are, get out on the track and put your money where you mouth is.

Road riding is about unknowns. If you have only 10 metres to react when that dog ran out in front of you on a country road then it isn't going to matter whether you are going 80 km/h or 80 km/h you are going to hit it. I can tell you which speed I would rather go through a farmers fence at though.

I'm curious - how old are you? (Serious question.)

I never said anything of the sort regarding being wonderful and awesome, just stating that on a bike, you become quite attuned to speed. Can you honestly admit that 100kph feels exactly the same on a bike as in a car? Dont count your dr250 though!

If a dog runs out in front of you at anything faster than suburban speed, you dont hesitate, no swerving, nail it, lightening the front wheel in the process and keep going straight.

For your info, I am 22, and a reformed rider of sorts. I have binned in most spectacular ways possible (though never on the open road) and have paid enough in speeding fines to feed a whole African country for a month.

[Shorty_925]

Ixion is my idol.

Another angle though, Ive ridden quite happily on UK motorways, the speed limit is 70mph (call it 120kph, but precisely 116)

:2thumbsup

Different road conditions, the roads are in better condition than here, so can travel at those speeds and its the same with other major roads/motorways in Europe.

As for speeding side of things, I personally dont enjoy riding fast on the roads. Id much rather find the tight, twist peice of road and go at a resonable pace across that, and knowing that if I come across something I have time to pull up. If i want to go fast, id just tape up the lights and go racing or do a track day, much more enjoyable than thinking if the fuzz are around the corner ready to ping me. Enjoy riding a bike too much to loose my licence.

They should put more of the tax money was put back into the network.

[Morcs]

They should put more of the tax money was put back into the network.

Agreed. Considering NZ has one of the highest vehicle ownership rates in the world - that should be plenty of revenue from fuel, rego and dare I say it, speeding fines to make the roads safer, rather than having shit roads and telling people to drive slower...

[NDORFN]

Fuck. I just typed up a big spiel and by the time I went to post I'd been logged out and now it's lost. Fuck it. I'm going to work. Might do 120 on the way.

[Swoop]

So if a cop pulled me over on a New Zealand motorway for doing 70mph and told me it was very dangerous speed etc etc.. thats when its stupid. Fact is everyone on UK motorways sits at around 80mph (130) and there arent many problems in relation to the sheer number of vehicles in the whole country.
The problem is that the kiwi licence is given out to just about any retard that can turn a steering wheel (cannot call them a "driver"...).
European driver training is vastly superior than ours... or so we are told.
Here, we just traing someone to be able to pass the test, not really drive.

[p.dath]

Agreed. Considering NZ has one of the highest vehicle ownership rates in the world - that should be plenty of revenue from fuel, rego and dare I say it, speeding fines to make the roads safer, rather than having shit roads and telling people to drive slower...

Until we swap the fines for demerit points ...

[Morcs]

Until we swap the fines for demerit points ...

Then its less revenue.

I wouldve thought it would be in the governments interest to make loosing a license more difficult, whilst retaining the nice revenue from ticketing.
If drivers are disqualified, they cant be out on the road giving more money to the government..

[Morcs]

The problem is that the kiwi licence is given out to just about any retard that can turn a steering wheel (cannot call them a "driver"...).
European driver training is vastly superior than ours... or so we are told.
Here, we just traing someone to be able to pass the test, not really drive.

This is true. Our equivalent of the basic handling is a full 8 hour training/test day, with a lot of theory, car park work, basic bike checking, and on road stuff. Even then you are only allowed on a 125 after that...

[Jacko2]

What does "our" mean?
Interested to know.

[Indiana_Jones]

all that anti speeding nazi crap, well my question is, is it just because they cant ride above the speed limit? are scared or incapable at handling a motorcycle at a whopping speed of 120kph?

Or do they just like being authoritarians on the internet?



<img src="http://www.cinemotions.net/data/films/0042/02/2/photo-Top-Gun-1986-9.jpg">

The hard-deck for this hop was 10,00 feet. You knew it. You broke it.

You followed Commander Heatherly below after he lost sight of you & called no joy. Why?

Sir, I had him in my sights. He saw me move in for the kill.

He proceeded below the hard-deck. We were below for just a few seconds.

I had the shot. There was no danger, so I took it.

You took it, and broke a major rule of engagement.

Then you broke another one with that circus stunt fly-by.

Top Gun rules of engagement exist for your safety and for that of your team.

They're not flexible, nor am I. Obey them or you're history. Is that clear?

Yes sir!



-Indy

[Bass]

I think it totally ridiculous for some bureaucrat in an office to tell me what is "safe" for me on any given piece of road. And if I am supposed to figure out what is "safe" then the bureaucrat can bugger off entirely. I'm not interested in his 100kph. It may not be safe. If I am capable of determining whether 100kph is "safe" , I am equally capable of determining if 120kph is "safe". "Safe" , for me. Only.

You make your case with your usual eloquence and also as usual, there is logic therein. Tell me though, do you have some pragmatic and workable alternative to a blanket speed limit?
I don't and I have thought about it a great deal while bearing in mind that as is often mooted here, speed per se does not kill, but differential speed surely can.
It seems to me that there is simply no other realistic way to regulate for the vagaries of all the different road users out there.

[Morcs]

The hard-deck for this hop was 10,00 feet. You knew it. You broke it.

You followed Commander Heatherly below after he lost sight of you & called no joy. Why?

Sir, I had him in my sights. He saw me move in for the kill.

He proceeded below the hard-deck. We were below for just a few seconds.

I had the shot. There was no danger, so I took it.

You took it, and broke a major rule of engagement.

Then you broke another one with that circus stunt fly-by.

Top Gun rules of engagement exist for your safety and for that of your team.

They're not flexible, nor am I. Obey them or you're history. Is that clear?

Yes sir!



-Indy


Sorry, but it's time to buzz the tower.
</pre>

[Indiana_Jones]

Sorry, but it's time to buzz the tower.
</pre>

No Morcs! not a good idea man!

-Indy

[Morcs]

You make your case with your usual eloquence and also as usual, there is logic therein. Tell me though, do you have some pragmatic and workable alternative to a blanket speed limit?
I don't and I have thought about it a great deal.
It seems to me that there is simply no other realistic way to regulate for the vagaries of all the different road users out there.

Simple. Keep people who cant drive/ride off the roads.
Raise the driving age to 21

Then raise the speed limit a wee bit.

Sorted.

[Morcs]

No Morcs! not a good idea man!

-Indy

Slider...



You stink.

</pre>

[Indiana_Jones]

Slider...



You stink.

</pre>

Don't tease me ;)

-Indy

[Bass]

Simple. Keep people who cant drive/ride off the roads.
Raise the driving age to 21

Then raise the speed limit a wee bit.

Sorted.

It's just not that simple.
There are so many other factors involved.
While I grant you that bad driving is a major contributor, it's far from being the only cause of road accidents.
Further, despite what Les says about bureaucrats, I think that many of the restrictions which we operate under come down to what society as a whole decides they can live with and that those restrictions evolve gradually with circumstances. Consequently, if I am right, there is a huge body of people out there who do not see this the way that you do.
Lastly, your "fix" still includes a blanket speed limit - albeit a higher one - and so you haven't answered the question at all.

[ManDownUnder]

If drivers are disqualified, they cant be out on the road giving more money to the government..

... "can't" - or "aren't allowed to be"...?

[Swoop]

This is true. Our equivalent of the basic handling is a full 8 hour training/test day, with a lot of theory, car park work, basic bike checking, and on road stuff. Even then you are only allowed on a 125 after that...

How about NZ follows suit? Actually train motorists' to begin with. Don't make it optional. More in-depth education at the very beginning. It will cost more, but that would be offset by the motorist saving money (not being taxed for doing stupid stuff later on...:rolleyes:) in the long run.

[Morcs]

How about NZ follows suit? Actually train motorists' to begin with. Don't make it optional. More in-depth education at the very beginning. It will cost more, but that would be offset by the motorist saving money (not being taxed for doing stupid stuff later on...:rolleyes:) in the long run.

Its the way it should be. Simple prevention rather than correction.

Id feel much safer on the road if i knew all other motorists had a decent level of training.

[Swoop]

Its the way it should be. Simple prevention rather than correction.

Id feel much safer on the road if i knew all other motorists had a decent level of training.
The concept of having "the fence at the top of the cliff" rather than the ambulance at the bottom. Revolutionary talk!:wacko:

[slofox]

Its the way it should be. Simple prevention rather than correction.

Id feel much safer on the road if i knew all other motorists had a decent level of training.

Yep. Me too. 'specially when I see some of the stuff that happens on local roads...:eek5:

[Morcs]

The concept of having "the fence at the top of the cliff" rather than the ambulance at the bottom. Revolutionary talk!:wacko:



The organisation shall take action to eliminate the cause of nonconformities in order to prevent re-occurance. Corrective actions shall be appropriate to the effects of the nonconformities encountered.


The organisation shall determine actions to eliminate the cause of nonconformities in order to prevent their occurance. Preventive actions shall be appropriate to the effects of the potential problems

Maybe the government needs to read these things...

[p.dath]

Then its less revenue.

I wouldve thought it would be in the governments interest to make loosing a license more difficult, whilst retaining the nice revenue from ticketing.
If drivers are disqualified, they cant be out on the road giving more money to the government..

It is only more difficult to keep your licence if you choose to keep breaking the law and getting caught. If there was no deterrent then you might as well not have laws.

Those who feel oppressed by the regime often site references to revenue collection. But I'll put it forward that my is the fines are simply a deterrent. It's that simple. And often the simplest explanation is the right one ...
So perhaps its not a conspiracy where the Government is trying to target motorcycle riders travelling at 120km/h on the road? Perhaps the Government is just trying to keep everyone as safe as it can while allowing as much personal freedom as it can afford?


How about NZ follows suit? Actually train motorists' to begin with. Don't make it optional. More in-depth education at the very beginning. It will cost more, but that would be offset by the motorist saving money (not being taxed for doing stupid stuff later on...:rolleyes:) in the long run.

A lot of accidents also involve returning riders. Training at just the beginning would not be enough.
I've suggested before that our licences should not be re-newed automatically every 10 years without having to do anything. Perhaps re-training/education should occur at this point in time.


The concept of having "the fence at the top of the cliff" rather than the ambulance at the bottom. Revolutionary talk!:wacko:

Just make sure it's not a cheese cutter.

[Morcs]

It is only more difficult to keep your licence if you choose to keep breaking the law and getting caught. If there was no deterrent then you might as well not have laws.

Those who feel oppressed by the regime often site references to revenue collection. But I'll put it forward that my is the fines are simply a deterrent. It's that simple. And often the simplest explanation is the right one ...
So perhaps its not a conspiracy where the Government is trying to target motorcycle riders travelling at 120km/h on the road? Perhaps the Government is just trying to keep everyone as safe as it can while allowing as much personal freedom as it can afford?

So you ever smile? or have fun?
I bet you want tree climbing banned too.

If you rode your bike at even 50% of what its capable to be ridden at, you wouldnt be saying any of this. Mind you, the F4 is a bit of a whale...

[Swoop]

A lot of accidents also involve returning riders. Training at just the beginning would not be enough.
"Returning riders" would have had the benefit of better training to begin with and then the experience gained after that initial period of riding. When "returning" they would have more knowledge/experience.

Teach good skills. Gain more skills based on that initial training.

[Dean]

Really?

I thought we are all here to learn?

I just learned doing ***kph out a 45kph blind corner isn't the best thing to do when there's a truckie guy trying to cross the road dodging me by about 10cm on my way to kumeu out of coatesville riverhead. Luckily his pot belly wasn't so well pottish or else I would of ripped out what he had for dinner last night. Poor guy got such a fright....... I think I made a grown man pee himself.:Oops::2thumbsup My lesson learnt

[rainman]

Are all the people on here who say things like:

Dont speed
Dont break the law
Do the crime pay the fine

all that anti speeding nazi crap, well my question is, is it just because they cant ride above the speed limit? are scared or incapable at handling a motorcycle at a whopping speed of 120kph?

Interesting discussion. I'm less in the "don't speed at all" category and more in the "don't see the fucking point" category. I tend to diss all the young flyboys (and yes, I'd bet there is a correlation between age + testosterone level and stupid behaviour) because they seem to think they're invincible, and "it won't happen to me, I'm too good" is just denialist idiocy. Reasonable speed (120-ish on the open road, depending) is generally OK in my book, but beyond that, take it to the track - a mistake could easily cost someone else their life.

Do not impose on others that which you would not choose for yourself.


I think it's a case of been there done that nothing left to prove for me.

I'm not king of the hill in terms of speed and riding - I know it.
...
I also have 3 gorgeous little people to come home to
...
The "you do the crime you do the time" aspect of things is simply maturity.

Yup to all of what he said (except I have 2 kids, not 3). I ride an mid-size cruiser because:

I like the cruiser look
My elderly back doesn't support doing permanent push-ups on the bars of a sporty
I don't need the speed - I genuinely like to cruise around and see where I am, not blat through the country as quick as I can
I know I have too little skill and self-discipline to ride a fast bike and not kill myself... ...and this bothers me and my ego not one bit



Depends on your reaction times - yes the faster you go, the bigger the mess, but when you become attuned to riding a higher speeds, 100kph is bloody dangerous!

I call bullshit - this is the myth that it won't happen to you because you're too good. Skill is always a factor but it does not trump physics. You don't control all the factors.


What DOES puzzle me is why so many of those people buy very large bikes (usually crusiers) , capable of breaking the speed limit by a many fold factor. When their personal ethos says they won't ever do it. Why not a nice 250 or 400?

I'm not one of your "these people" - in fact I don't know any rule-keepers as extreme as you depict - but I do own a crusier that is not very different to a 250 or 400 in some ways. (Well, maybe not a 250 or 400 cruiser). The reason why I own my bike is because I like it and it does all I need. My next bike would probably be a DR650 or similar. Bikes are tools for a purpose, plus some aesthetic appeal factor. I don't need a fast sporty, so I don't own one. Easy.


Motorcycles are INHERENTLY dangerous. If we were the sort of people that were highly influenced by such calculations, we wouldn't be riding in the first place.

I'm not sure if your logic is broken or if you're being insulting to bikers here.


Personally, I make my own call. I have a "danger level" that is acceptable to me. In some circumstances that danger level may be reached at 70kph. So that's what I'll do even if the limit is 100.

All of what you say is true, but for the fact that rulemakers (and the vast majority of the great unwashed), are broadly idiots that like simple devices to control things. Legislating for a flexible speed limit depending on judgement would be a disaster - I think many more idiots and innocents would be killed.

Personally, I'd trust your judgement on the road as a "fellow traveller", but most YD&FOC wankers on their litre bikes are, well, dumb, and are just a liability. You are a Grown-Up (TM), therefore are somewhat less dumb. :)


Morcs mate - you need to get off our roads. Come spend some time out on the ambulance, it will change your perspective. If you really want to astound everyone here about how wonderful you are and how quick your reaction times are, get out on the track and put your money where you mouth is.

That's why tracks exist - I really can't see a moral justification for 200k on public roads.



Top Gun rules of engagement exist for your safety and for that of your team.

They're not flexible, nor am I. Obey them or you're history. Is that clear?

Yes sir!


What is he doing with his hand?

[red675]

He's lying.

675 or bigger? The 675 won't do anything under 120.....:whistle:
actually it was a 955 and a little while ago, but who's counting

however I have managed to keep below 120 on my 675 (but it does require staying in second) ...

[red675]

or maybe they have respect for the laws that govern our country and dont see why they should be able to only follow the rules they choose?
how can you say that and be the 2nd most badass biker ?

[st00ji]

prevention? training? education? bunch of fucking communists, that shit is not how we roll in NZ.

got a problem with boyracers? we need a new law!
got a problem with illegal downloads? we need a new law!
got a problem with child abuse? we need a new law!

forget about the cause, making it an offence will defintely banish any problems.

[Morcs]

I ride an mid-size cruiser

I call bullshit - this is the myth that it won't happen to you because you're too good. Skill is always a factor but it does not trump physics. You don't control all the factors.

There you go. Ride a sports bike with at least 100hp and you will understand. 100kph after a while feels so slow that you could jump off and walk alongside the bike - and thats not an exaggeration, thats what it actually feels like sometimes - this is why I dont have a sportsbike anymore.

[slofox]

Ride a sports bike with at least 100hp and you will understand.

Errr...I don't even need 100hp...:Oops:

[Littleman]

Ixion is my idol.

Why?

You're not a virgin.

You don't still live at home.

You don't wear cardigans.

And you don't smell like my Grandpa.

[Morcs]

Errr...I don't even need 100hp...:Oops:

That emphasises my point moreso :2thumbsup

[rainman]

Ride a sports bike with at least 100hp and you will understand. 100kph after a while feels so slow that you could jump off and walk alongside the bike - and thats not an exaggeration, thats what it actually feels like sometimes - this is why I dont have a sportsbike anymore.

I have ridden fast powerful bikes and do understand. As listed above, this is one reason why I don't have a sportsbike. I know my skills, abilities and needs.

Speed is an addiction. During the evolutionary past we did not spend much time doing 200kph, so have an adrenaline rush when we do, which is chemically "nice". But it's also addictive, and we tend to keep upping the dose (constrained only by our higher cerebral functions). Risk taking has always been part of the human experience, but technology allows us to push our limits easier than we could in the past. And we're generally getting stoopider, mainly because of diet and living arrangements.

We've never been particularly good at admitting there are things we can't do, and limits beyond which we can't go. Doesn't make it less true, though.

[ManDownUnder]

Why?

You're not a virgin.

You don't still live at home.

You don't wear cardigans.

And you don't smell like my Grandpa.

2 out of 4 ain't bad...

[The Pastor]

how can you say that and be the 2nd most badass biker ?
I see you don't let education get in the way of your ignorance, but just for you I'll point out that I never said I agree with or support that point of view.

[Jacko2]

Why?

You're not a virgin.

You don't still live at home.

You don't wear cardigans.

And you don't smell like my Grandpa.

Ouch!!!!!!

[Swoop]

prevention? training? education? bunch of fucking communists, that shit is not how we roll in NZ.

got a problem with boyracers? we need a new law!
got a problem with illegal downloads? we need a new law!
got a problem with child abuse? we need a new law!

forget about the cause, making it an offence will defintely banish any problems.
Said like a true liarbour supporter...;):whistle:

[wbks]

Woa, this thread grew...
To answer the original question, I would tell someone to harden up if they complained about a speeding ticket. Wouldn't most people do the same thing if someone whined "waaa I just got done doing 120 and the big bad pig ticketed me, he's so unreasonable", which seems to be what most people say? Wouldn't make me a nazi...

[st00ji]

Said like a true liarbour supporter...;):whistle:

haha, maybe you would like to join my new cause - the BBSB campaign

(Bring Back Sue Bradford)

[ManDownUnder]

Wouldn't make me a nazi...

No but if you didn't ask what their reason was it would make you one eyed.

[scumdog]

So how are you more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h, that you say is a fact? What have you based this "fact" on?

Who cares?

At 120km/h 'somebody' could give you a ticket, THAT is what counts.

Not if you live or die, that's immaterial.

[scumdog]

Good point! Why don't we drop it to 5... or are there other considerations to be balanced off as well?

It WAS 80 up until 'about' 1986.

Before it was 80 it was 55mph from memory.

[ManDownUnder]

It WAS 80 up until 'about' 1986.

Before it was 80 it was 55mph from memory.


...but but but - that suggests speed isn't the only issue??? Nooooo - surely not?

[marty]

This is part troll, part serious...

The question is:

Are all the people on here who say things like:

Dont speed
Dont break the law
Do the crime pay the fine

all that anti speeding nazi crap, well my question is, is it just because they cant ride above the speed limit? are scared or incapable at handling a motorcycle at a whopping speed of 120kph?

Or do they just like being authoritarians on the internet?

Im intrigued.

Discuss.

i speed. i break the law.

i just don't come on here and cry like a fucking baby when i get caught.

actually, every time i've been caught i have either 'failed' to see the red/blues, or they haven't been following me - i thought they were for someone else - and i've carried on regardless, or i've been nice and talked my way out of it. it's not easy to talk you way out of a 70km walk home, but it can be done. being an arse would have meant a loooong walk, and a longer time without a licence.......

[Patrick]

So if a cop pulled me over on a New Zealand motorway for doing 70mph and told me it was very dangerous speed etc etc.. thats when its stupid.

And fair enough too.... It isn't dangerous at 120. Its a speeding ticket. It's dangerous speed at 51 or more over the limit....


Then its less revenue.

I wouldve thought it would be in the governments interest to make loosing a license more difficult, whilst retaining the nice revenue from ticketing.
If drivers are disqualified, they cant be out on the road giving more money to the government..

Yeah.... once disqualified, they don't go out on the roads.........

And that other old lemon will be gone, when the fines are reduced and the demerits raised - can't call it revenue/tax collecting then, ay....???


Depends on your reaction times - yes the faster you go, the bigger the mess,

You forget.... the less you have in reaction time and in distance as well.....

[paddy]

Simple. Keep people who cant drive/ride off the roads.
Raise the driving age to 21

Then raise the speed limit a wee bit.

Sorted.

Apparently not - because I seem to recall you being 22.

[Indiana_Jones]

What is he doing with his hand?

Ever had a ZJ?


<img src="http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/dartmarc2291984/2006_beerfest_0021.jpg">

-Indy

[beyond]

Simple answer to the original question.... most bikes have six gears for a reason :)

[p.dath]

Quote:
Originally Posted by p.dath View Post
So how are you more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h, that you say is a fact? What have you based this "fact" on?
Who cares?

At 120km/h 'somebody' could give you a ticket, THAT is what counts.

Not if you live or die, that's immaterial.

Who cares?

At 120km/h 'somebody' could give you a ticket, THAT is what counts.

Not if you live or die, that's immaterial.

Because people are trying to support a view by putting forward something as fact. Effectively they are making up facts to support a view which probably isn't true.
It is not likely to be true that travelling at 100km/h means you are more likely to die than travelling at 120km/h.

[p.dath]

...but but but - that suggests speed isn't the only issue??? Nooooo - surely not?

No one has ever said speed is the only issue. What made you think this?

Speed is a contributing factor. That is what has always been said.

[NDORFN]

No one has ever said speed is the only issue. What made you think this?

Speed is a contributing factor. That is what has always been said.

Ummm... possibly that the majority of propaganda focuses on speed, the excessive fines for speeding etc... Gives us the impression that speed is atleast the major factor.

[scumdog]

No one has ever said speed is the only issue. What made you think this?

Reading KB made ME think that....:whistle:

[Grahameeboy]

umm - what?

Common sense says you get 100/120ths of the reaction time should anything happen... so the chances of a random "oopsie" having an effect are increased. by 20%

Physics says that you have 44% more kinetic energy at 120 than at 100 so that oopsie just got a lot more painful with an increased likelihood of being terminal, especially if that ebergy gets imparted to you all at once (i.e. are stopped by a tree rather than the friction of the tarseal).

Putting that aside.....:beer:.....speed does not kill or cause accidents...if it did this site would not exist.

I have on occasions hit 200kph plus....but they are in far away places where the elves....sorry...where was I....where there are no other cars or buildings...and it lasts all of 30 secs....on group rides it is not uncommon for group speed to be around 130/140kph....have not been on a ride where anyone was killed....that accident on the Coro a short while ago, according to the guy following, was doing about 70kph on a slow bend...caught some gravel...oncoming car did not help mind..but you and I are oldies and we are still alive...just

[Grahameeboy]

Reading KB made ME think that....:whistle:

You intellects...................

[Grahameeboy]

Reading KB made ME think that....:whistle:

In all seriousness though SD do you really think that speed is the main factor...."Mum's the word":whistle:

[Mom]

So how are you more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h, that you say is a fact? What have you based this "fact" on?

We get told it all the time, speed kills, ergo exceed the speed limit and you will die, far out, you are obviously a very new member here to have not got that message loud and clear. I have been known to refer to the open road as the exceed 100kph and dieway.


umm - what?

Common sense says you get 100/120ths of the reaction time should anything happen... so the chances of a random "oopsie" having an effect are increased. by 20%

Physics says that you have 44% more kinetic energy at 120 than at 100 so that oopsie just got a lot more painful with an increased likelihood of being terminal, especially if that ebergy gets imparted to you all at once (i.e. are stopped by a tree rather than the friction of the tarseal).


Dont talk sense Ned, it baffles the populace :yes:

EDIT: I have a really novel idea here, lets all ride the speed we want to, the one that suits us at the time. If it is faster than the rules allow and we get caught we take it like a man and not a snivelling school boy. If it is at or around the speed limit we dont get given shit for being a nana rider. Oh hells teeth, while we are at it, lets just accept the rules (apart from the learner 70kph one, that needs ammending) and either obey them or not as we see fit.

[NDORFN]

We get told it all the time, speed kills, ergo exceed the speed limit and you will die, far out, you are obviously a very new member here to have not got that message loud and clear. I have been known to refer to the open road as the exceed 100kph and dieway.




Dont talk sense Ned, it baffles the populace :yes:

I'm so glad we've got a male Prime Minister again.

[Morcs]

Because people are trying to support a view by putting forward something as fact. Effectively they are making up facts to support a view which probably isn't true.
It is not likely to be true that travelling at 100km/h means you are more likely to die than travelling at 120km/h.

You really dont get the point im making do you?
When you sit on the open road at 100kph on easy stretches of road, are you hanging on, scared shitless?

What happens when you watch a really boring film, or read a really boring book? you either do something else to keep the mind stimulated, or you fall asleep.

People like you really are here to try and make KB boring.
Go sit in your Wiki and write articles of how we are supposed to ride.

[Mom]

I'm so glad we've got a male Prime Minister again.

I would take that as an insult but I agree with you in this instance :D

[nodrog]

most of KB cant break the speed limit anyway, 5% arent old enough to get a licence, 5% dont have motorbikes, and 89% cant stay logged off for the required time it takes to put on a helmet, let alone go for a fuckin ride.

[NDORFN]

most of KB cant break the speed limit anyway, 5% arent old enough to get a licence, 5% dont have motorbikes, and 89% cant stay logged off for the required time it takes to put on a helmet, let alone go for a fuckin ride.

It's been raining alot. Shuddup.

[p.dath]

You really dont get the point im making do you?
When you sit on the open road at 100kph on easy stretches of road, are you hanging on, scared shitless?

What happens when you watch a really boring film, or read a really boring book? you either do something else to keep the mind stimulated, or you fall asleep.

People like you really are here to try and make KB boring.
Go sit in your Wiki and write articles of how we are supposed to ride.

How about if you concede that there is no evidence to support that you more more likely to die riding at 100km/h than 120km/h? Your trying to say it is okay to speed based on a false pretence.
Now I could believe it if you said its just more fun riding at 120km/h. At least your building a case on something that is more measurable and real.

At the end of the day, the deaths from being "bored shitless" are very low compared to those that involved speed as a contributing factor. I would give you the reference to those accidents, but I doubt you would believe them.
I will grant you that 20km/h over the limit is not a criminal offence. So we don't need to make a huge fuss over it do we?

And if this goes back to the thread about loosing your licence through demerit points about speeding by 20km/h - then that has also been disproven as propaganda. You will not loose your licence by going over the speed limit once by 20km/h.

Basically people have been making up facts to argue that they are correct.

[Swoop]

haha, maybe you would like to join my new cause - the BBSB campaign

(Bring Back Sue Bradford)
Sounds like fun. Round #2 *ding*.
Bring back the fuckwit!

[NDORFN]

How about if you concede that there is no evidence to support that you more more likely to die riding at 100km/h than 120km/h? Your trying to say it is okay to speed based on a false pretence.
Now I could believe it if you said its just more fun riding at 120km/h. At least your building a case on something that is more measurable and real.

At the end of the day, the deaths from being "bored shitless" are very low compared to those that involved speed as a contributing factor. I would give you the reference to those accidents, but I doubt you would believe them.
I will grant you that 20km/h over the limit is not a criminal offence. So we don't need to make a huge fuss over it do we?

And if this goes back to the thread about loosing your licence through demerit points about speeding by 20km/h - then that has also been disproven as propaganda. You will not loose your licence by going over the speed limit once by 20km/h.

Basically people have been making up facts to argue that they are correct.

Here's a fact that no one has made up or even mentioned. The ONLY reason the speed limit is 100 and not 120 or 150 or 60 or 5 is because the bureaucrats have decided that it's a socially acceptable cost for x many people to die each year so we can drive at given speed. So rather than look at it in terms of statistics regarding why one set speed is safer than another, look at it in terms of why the fuck are we ok with x many number of people dying at a limit of 100, but not x plus a few more at a limit of 120 etc...

[yachtie10]

Originally Posted by p.dath View Post
How about if you concede that there is no evidence to support that you more more likely to die riding at 100km/h than 120km/h? Your trying to say it is okay to speed based on a false pretence.
Now I could believe it if you said its just more fun riding at 120km/h. At least your building a case on something that is more measurable and real.

At the end of the day, the deaths from being "bored shitless" are very low compared to those that involved speed as a contributing factor. I would give you the reference to those accidents, but I doubt you would believe them.
I will grant you that 20km/h over the limit is not a criminal offence. So we don't need to make a huge fuss over it do we?

And if this goes back to the thread about loosing your licence through demerit points about speeding by 20km/h - then that has also been disproven as propaganda. You will not loose your licence by going over the speed limit once by 20km/h.

Basically people have been making up facts to argue that they are correct.

You say there is "no evidence to support that you more more likely to die riding at 100km/h than 120km/h?"

I think you need to stop reading statistics and taking them as fact. The way they are gathered is pretty flawed so I dont believe most of them anyway.

I think the concept that Morcs is trying to get across is
That if your brain isnt occupied by what you are doing (driving in this case) it tends to wander. This leads to inattention (not being bored shitless) which reduces reaction time and even completely missing events (traffic events).
when we are involved in our driving/riding we tend to be more focused. This leads to less accidents. There is evidence that driving at a speed which involves us in our task we have less accidents (maybe more serious though).

This is not just in driving but in many things we do.
So for some drivers they will have less accidents at 120 than 100 (assuming the machine and road are up to it). In fact it can be much less?

The reason speeding is targeted is because it is easy to enforce and get revenue. wheras being tired, inattentive,an idiot or distracted is hard to prove unless there is an accident.

have a nice day

[doc]

This is part troll, part serious...

The question is:

Are all the people on here who say things like:


Do the crime pay the fine

all that anti speeding nazi crap, well Or do they just like being authoritarians on the internet?

Im intrigued.

Discuss.


Faark, Im as guilty of all the rest myself at times. Can't understand why anyone can winge when they get caught doing any illegal speeds.

ie, 111 kph is not 1 k over its 11 km over. You get caught you face the music.

Put half the lawyers that cause the pc bs out of business overnite. Just my 2c.

:angry2:

[paddy]

You really dont get the point im making do you?
When you sit on the open road at 100kph on easy stretches of road, are you hanging on, scared shitless?

What happens when you watch a really boring film, or read a really boring book? you either do something else to keep the mind stimulated, or you fall asleep.

People like you really are here to try and make KB boring.
Go sit in your Wiki and write articles of how we are supposed to ride.

So, just to paraphrase your argument - you are safer travelling at a higher speed because when you ride more slowly you are bored and therefore "tune out"?

[Ixion]

Here's a fact that no one has made up or even mentioned. The ONLY reason the speed limit is 100 and not 120 or 150 or 60 or 5 is because the bureaucrats have decided that it's a socially acceptable cost for x many people to die each year so we can drive at given speed. So rather than look at it in terms of statistics regarding why one set speed is safer than another, look at it in terms of why the fuck are we ok with x many number of people dying at a limit of 100, but not x plus a few more at a limit of 120 etc...

No, it's not. It was not that logically decided.

Back in the 1920s (1930s ? Can't remember) when the first speed limits were being set, a committee was appointed to decide what they should be. They asked some of the car importers of the day what the top speed of their cars was. Averaged the result , and added 10% (dunno why the 10%, sort of lile our 110kph I guess). The result happened to be 55mph. (Yes, back then many cars couldn't get past 50mph. My first car, a Humber 10, I never got past 45mph. And that was terrifying).

Then in the 70s (?) the big oil crisis struck. And the gubbermint of the day decided to reduce the speed limit to 50mph to save fuel.

A few years later , the oil crisis had passed. And in an unprecedented fit of sanity (never repeated since) the politicians listened to the engineers , who said "We have built these wonderful new motorways. They are capable of much higher speeds in safety , than ordinary roads ". Bear in mind that "ordinary roads" still mainly meant gravel. The politicians actually agreed (Must have been sun spots or something), and agreed to raise the limit on the motorways to 60mph.

Then somehow (I attribute it to divine intervention), they decided that having different speed limits was too much hassle and just raised the limit generally.

Which is why we have 100kph (60mph metrifcateriseded).

Nobody EVER actually thought through what it SHOULD be logically.

[Sidewinder]

wats speed????????????????

[Ixion]

wats speed????????????????

1-phenylpropan-2-amine , C9H13N

[Sidewinder]

1-phenylpropan-2-amine , C9H13N

that maths or something flash?

[NighthawkNZ]

Well all know speed doesn't kill... its the sudden stop you have to watch out for...

[Sidewinder]

Well all know speed doesn't kill... its the sudden stop you have to watch out for...

so its going slow that does, buger the ads then yea

[Digitdion]

Fuck, what a great thread. Is it a record getting this many replies in such a short space of time?
For me the thing is speed is really very relative. I drive a coach in and out of Milford. Most people think of a "bus" as slow. But really in most cases I am the quickest and safest driver out of Milford.Modern machinery is awesome.I do not need to brake(excuse the pun) the rules. I can maintain a great average speed A) I know the road. B) I am not a knob from overseas who has no idea about how to judge a corner or is to busy looking at the view or decides to stop on a blind corner to take a photo. I just have to avoid these Knobs.
Boys, its all relative. Some places it is safe to do 140kph. Some places its only safe to do 75kph.
I think you will all agree that the main problem is red tape bullshit! ( I can not spell Burogracy(You know that govt bullshit) I told you I can not spell).

[Sidewinder]

283 on the clock runnie, well leaving the cops behind with a back pack and hung over at 9am after passing out at a mates 21st

[ManDownUnder]

Here's a fact that no one has made up or even mentioned. The ONLY reason the speed limit is ...

...and that ladies and gentlefolks.. is why I love KB.

We know it all. God I love this place

[p.dath]

You say there is "no evidence to support that you more more likely to die riding at 100km/h than 120km/h?"

I think you need to stop reading statistics and taking them as fact. The way they are gathered is pretty flawed so I dont believe most of them anyway.


morcs is the one saying it is a fact. He even put it in big capital letters. I haven't supplied stats - I've just asked for morcs to explain where the fact came from.



I think the concept that Morcs is trying to get across is
That if your brain isnt occupied by what you are doing (driving in this case) it tends to wander. This leads to inattention (not being bored shitless) which reduces reaction time and even completely missing events (traffic events).
when we are involved in our driving/riding we tend to be more focused. This leads to less accidents. There is evidence that driving at a speed which involves us in our task we have less accidents (maybe more serious though).


There's that word again, evidence. Where is the evidence to suggest you will have less accidents travelling at 120km/h as opposed to 100km/h. This sounds more like a guess to me - or are you relying on some statistics from somewhere? However morcs assertion is that you are more likely to die travelling at 100km/h than 120km/h. He even says that it is a fact. Here are the exact words from post #10.
"... gaurenteed more likely to die doing 100kph all the way rather than sitting at 120-140. FACT.".

So I called him on it. Morcs is supporting a viewpoint put forward supported by made up evidence.



So for some drivers they will have less accidents at 120 than 100 (assuming the machine and road are up to it). In fact it can be much less?


I am certain you are right - that there will be some drivers/riders who would have less accidents. So even if we ignore that accident severity will be increased, and that some drivers/riders will be safer, do you put forward then that everyone should just drive/ride above the speed limit then?

In that case, why not just increase the limit? Is there in fact, any point in having a speed limit? Should we just trust road users to use the road at an appropriate speed?

ps. We can't trust all road users to use the road at an appropriate speed. Hence the need for rules and consequences.




The reason speeding is targeted is because it is easy to enforce and get revenue. wheras being tired, inattentive,an idiot or distracted is hard to prove unless there is an accident.


Oh that tired old drum. I'm being targeted because the Government wants to make more revenue - as opposed to the simple explanation that I'm just breaking the law that was put in place to protect the safety of all road users. The fine is simply a deterrent - to deter you from doing it.

If the Government wanted more revenue it would simply increase your tax rate tomorrow.

This perception was stated as one of the reasons they are looking to increase demerit points, and limit fines. So now you'll risk loosing your licence instead of just having a bill to pay - but at least wont wont be able to complain that the Government is revenue collecting.



have a nice day


Always a cordial discussion. :)

[p.dath]

Fuck, what a great thread. Is it a record getting this many replies in such a short space of time?


morcs did say this was part troll. So all in a but of fun and a little poke.

Taking nothing too seriously.

[Digitdion]

just like a tui ad, Yeah Right!

[Dan Mapp]

So where did all of you who think they are good drivers and riders get your training? Um let me guess you just went out there and did it till you thought you better than all the other drivers and riders out their, who where all thinking they had bin doing long enough to be better than you. We learn by doing, the younger we learn the better we are at somthing I have seen 7 year olds who are better drivers than most. Cheers Dan

[paddy]

So where did all of you who think they are good drivers and riders get your training? Um let me guess you just went out there and did it till you thought you better than all the other drivers and riders out their, who where all thinking they had bin doing long enough to be better than you. We learn by doing, the younger we learn the better we are at somthing I have seen 7 year olds who are better drivers than most. Cheers Dan

Skid pan course, Emergency Vehicles unit standards.....how about you? Having said that, I'm not arrogant enough to claim I am a better driver than everyone else. (Okay, I'm probably arrogant enough - but I'm CHOOSING not too.) ;-)

Edit: I am keen to get some riding training under my belt in the near future though.

[NighthawkNZ]

So where did all of you who think they are good drivers and riders get your training? Um let me guess you just went out there and did it till you thought you better than all the other drivers and riders out their, who where all thinking they had bin doing long enough to be better than you. We learn by doing, the younger we learn the better we are at somthing I have seen 7 year olds who are better drivers than most. Cheers Dan

wheatbix packet


I'm not arrogant enough to claim I am a better driver than everyone else. (Okay, I'm probably arrogant enough - but I'm CHOOSING not too.) ;-)


ditto

[Dan Mapp]

Skid pan course, Emergency Vehicles unit standards.....how about you? Having said that, I'm not arrogant enough to claim I am a better driver than everyone else. (Okay, I'm probably arrogant enough - but I'm CHOOSING not too.) ;-)

Edit: I am keen to get some riding training under my belt in the near future though.

25 years of motorsport. But a lot on here have claimed to be. :beer:

[LBD]

[QUOTE=Jantar;1129430214]
Well my Dad, never speed, gee's even to this day, he still drives at 83,always legal speed always

Sounds a lot like my Dad same age and driving style and bikeing background, But I do remember the time I had him passenger in a car alone....on a very quiet straight country road I new well. I hit big numbers and then put it in top...It took weeks for the grin to dissappear.

Speeding?

Ride to the conditions...
Ride safe...
Ride considerate of other road users...
And if you can do this at 125km then your only real concern is getting caught.

[wisefxx]

The faster you go, relatively, the slower everyone else is around you. At 200kph, everyone else is virtually stopped. Like flies avoiding a swot.

sorry but this is COMPLETLY wrong. if your going the same speed as everyone else relative to you there is no difference. giving you more time to react. if you go .. say 200 while everyone is doing 100 they are comming at you at 100kph. making them harder to avoid.

[Morcs]

P.dath, I look forward to giving you the learn.

When you understand my point let me know. Its not something that can be backed up a mathmatical equation or by statistics, but some of us can grasp ideas, concepts without the need for statistics right in front of our face - you are obviously one of those people.

There has never been sufficient evidence for any speeding ticket ive recieved in my eyes, doesnt mean i wasnt speeding.

Like I said before, please go back to your Wiki to write articles telling us how to ride.

[Pixie]

[QUOTE=slimjim;1129430297]

And if you can do this at 125km then your only real concern is getting caught.

You seem to be unaware that exceeding 100 km/hr
is a 100% ironclad,without a doubt guaranteed death sentence.

I saw it on a tv ad

[Pixie]

There are two reasons why people may condemn "speeding".

One is simply that "speeding" is "against the rules". And some people are very rule determined. Simply, the fact that it is against the rules is why you shouldn't do it. if the gubbermint brought out a rule that everyone must put their left shoe on before the right, such people would always comply, even though there was no possible mechanism for enforcement.

If you are one of those people then the "why speed" argument is meaningless. You don't speed, because it's against the rules. End of story. What DOES puzzle me is why so many of those people buy very large bikes (usually crusiers) , capable of breaking the speed limit by a many fold factor. When their personal ethos says they won't ever do it. Why not a nice 250 or 400?

.

My Dear Ix
By your very definition,those people are repressed,and repressed people often have inferiority complexes which leads them to buy big bikes,big cars, big houses,get penis extensions etc.

[Pixie]

I have on occasions hit 200kph plus....but they are in far away places where the elves....

And pixies :msn-wink:

[Pixie]

At the end of the day, the deaths from being "bored shitless" are very low

I die a little every time you post

[Patrick]

In all seriousness though SD do you really think that speed is the main factor...."Mum's the word":whistle:

Nah. The faster you go, the bigger the mess IS... FACT.......!!!!


I'm so glad we've got a male Prime Minister again.

SHIPLEY's been gone a while. What you talkin about...????


283 on the clock runnie, well leaving the cops behind with a back pack and hung over at 9am after passing out at a mates 21st

So... you were probably still pissed, doing a 283 runner.... I guess there will be one of THOSE threads before long then... :bye:


Oh that tired old drum. I'm being targeted because the Government wants to make more revenue - as opposed to the simple explanation that I'm just breaking the law that was put in place to protect the safety of all road users. The fine is simply a deterrent - to deter you from doing it.

Sooo old, aint it....

YOU choose to speed, so YOU get a ticket.

YOU choose not to speed, YOU don't get a ticket.

YOU don't want a ticket, ummmm, eerrrrrrrrr.... ah feck it.... Bitch and moan about it on KB! That'll sort it!!!! :2thumbsup

Bloody rocket science... Who would have thought.....:whistle:

[Ixion]

..
YOU choose to speed, so YOU get a ticket.

YOU choose not to speed, YOU don't get a ticket.

YOU don't want a ticket, ummmm, eerrrrrrrrr.... ah feck it.... Bitch and moan about it on KB! That'll sort it!!!! :2thumbsup

Bloody rocket science... Who would have thought.....:whistle:

Doesn't work. Plenty of examples on here , and in the wider world , of people NOT speeding who have still got a ticket.

"You wuz doing 121kph"
"No I wasn't. I'm certain of that"
"Yes you wuz. You can see it on the radar Same speed as the other 20 drivers I've ticketed this morning." (Or , "Yes you wuz. It was either you or that Falcon, and you're on a motorbike so you're automatically guilty")
"But, but, but"
"Tell it to the judge. Your word against mine. I know who he's going to believe"

[yachtie10]

Thanks patrick for stating the obvious
Are you trying to wind us up or do you believe that 100%

Mr Dath

I was replying to your expectation of evidence from morcs
I have found some evidence that explains it with statistics (and some open minded thinking)
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/inattention.html

[yachtie10]

Quote:
Originally Posted by p.dath View Post
At the end of the day, the deaths from being "bored shitless" are very low


reply from Pixie
I die a little every time you post

Funniest post ive read in a while :2thumbsup

[nosebleed]

I die a little every time you post

LOL. Can't bling off the phone dammit.

[NighthawkNZ]

Doesn't work. Plenty of examples on here , and in the wider world , of people NOT speeding who have still got a ticket.

"You wuz doing 121kph"
"No I wasn't. I'm certain of that"
"Yes you wuz. You can see it on the radar Same speed as the other 20 drivers I've ticketed this morning." (Or , "Yes you wuz. It was either you or that Falcon, and you're on a motorbike so you're automatically guilty")
"But, but, but"
"Tell it to the judge. Your word against mine. I know who he's going to believe"

I have had one of those... and I got off... apparently I was doing 220kph on my XJ 650 special BTRW they had a top speed of 175kph (trust me I tried) when new, mine at the time was well not new 100,00k's on the clock fuly loaded with a pillion... (struggled to 150). Went to court and when asked what my defense was...

I said, "I would happily pay the fine and have my license revoked if any body here can make my bike do that speed... I will even make it easier for you and take the panniers, and touring fairing off, heck I will allow you to even get it tuned and put new spark plugs and cables in... and if you can get to do 220 kph I will pay, heck I would be happy if it could do 200kph...

Now remember when I was pulled over for adledgely speedinf at this super sonic speed I had full panniers, tankbag, topbox, and a pillion, as well as a full touring fairing... Constable "A" should have made up a more respectable number and know what type of bike and its actual capabilities. Because their is no way that that bike can do that speed plain and simple... end of story."

I did get off and didn't have to pay any court costs...

I also reckon one other ticket I got was along the similar lines as you described, 65, in 50k zone... when I reckon I was bang on 50 and slowing to 45... but no way 65... the same cop has been over heard gloating in at the pub about how he doesn't reset the radar after the first catch of the day...

[Coldrider]

sorry but this is COMPLETLY wrong. if your going the same speed as everyone else relative to you there is no difference. giving you more time to react. if you go .. say 200 while everyone is doing 100 they are comming at you at 100kph. making them harder to avoid.COMPLETELY wrong, if you are going say 200 and every one around you is doing 100, they are coming at you (or rather me ) at 300 kph.
Those in my direction doing 100 are stationary relative to to me doing 200, moving me away at 100kph relative. It is a tongue in cheek remark.
Lighten up matey.

[Patrick]

Doesn't work. Plenty of examples on here , and in the wider world , of people NOT speeding who have still got a ticket.

"You wuz doing 121kph"
"No I wasn't. I'm certain of that"
"Yes you wuz. You can see it on the radar Same speed as the other 20 drivers I've ticketed this morning." (Or , "Yes you wuz. It was either you or that Falcon, and you're on a motorbike so you're automatically guilty")
"But, but, but"
"Tell it to the judge. Your word against mine. I know who he's going to believe"

Examples of old wives tales...?


Thanks patrick for stating the obvious
Are you trying to wind us up or do you believe that 100%

Yes...?

No speeding = no ticket.... a concept that is not believed in some realms............. Has me confused........


I have had one of those...
I did get off and didn't have to pay any court costs...

I also reckon one other ticket I got was along the similar lines as you described, 65, in 50k zone... when I reckon I was bang on 50 and slowing to 45... but no way 65... the same cop has been over heard gloating in at the pub about how he doesn't reset the radar after the first catch of the day...

Example 1. Probably had the wrong mode on the radar. In stationary mode, while doing 110, as you approached at 110 = 220kmph. Who knows.

Example 2. The bureau would pick up an that. As would his/her supervisor. Same speeds, all day? Could have happened, once upon a time.....

Could still happen? Doubt it. IMHO.

[Grahameeboy]

Nah. The faster you go, the bigger the mess IS... FACT.......!!!!




That is true but I go fast and am not in a mess...I am looking at the deeeeppppeeerrr issues / reason..maybe I should not have asked a skull faced HD rider?

[Morcs]

Examples of old wives tales...?



Yes...?

No speeding = no ticket.... a concept that is not believed in some realms............. Has me confused........



Example 1. Probably had the wrong mode on the radar. In stationary mode, while doing 110, as you approached at 110 = 220kmph. Who knows.

Example 2. The bureau would pick up an that. As would his/her supervisor. Same speeds, all day? Could have happened, once upon a time.....

Could still happen? Doubt it. IMHO.

Its possible and does happen. ive been ticketed for speeding in 50kph zones 3 times, everytime I was clocked at precisely 62, wonder how many other people were too on those days?
You can always ask the cop to see the infringement he issued before yours, but they dont have to show it.

[NighthawkNZ]

Example 2. The bureau would pick up an that. As would his/her supervisor. Same speeds, all day? Could have happened, once upon a time.....

Could still happen? Doubt it. IMHO.

He was heard saying in the pub that he will catch his first and not set his radar... pull over x number of people, "and asked do you know what speed you were doing... if they said was doing 50 on the dot you get the ticket for 65 in a 50... if the say I might have been doing 60 he writes the ticket for 60 so all the speeds are different...

This was only maybe 2 years ago...

Im the type of person if I get caught I usually say fair catch... and not worry about it... this one I got no... as I know I was not doing 65

[Patrick]

Its possible and does happen. ive been ticketed for speeding in 50kph zones 3 times, everytime I was clocked at precisely 62, wonder how many other people were too on those days?
You can always ask the cop to see the infringement he issued before yours, but they dont have to show it.

No, perhaps not... but the bureau could outline the speeds for each ticket or tickets before and after.... They are numerical, so easy to check..........


He was heard saying in the pub that he will catch his first and not set his radar... pull over x number of people, "and asked do you know what speed you were doing... if they said was doing 50 on the dot you get the ticket for 65 in a 50... if the say I might have been doing 60 he writes the ticket for 60 so all the speeds are different...

This was only maybe 2 years ago...

Im the type of person if I get caught I usually say fair catch... and not worry about it... this one I got no... as I know I was not doing 65

And no one gave him the smack he deserved?

Dunno of tickets being issued for 60. Even the speed camera doesn't go off for that...... Unless it is outside a school with the kiddies everywhere.

Or, is it an old wives tale, told over and over, heard by someone who knows someone...?

[NDORFN]

No, perhaps not... but the bureau could outline the speeds for each ticket or tickets before and after.... They are numerical, so easy to check..........



And no one gave him the smack he deserved?

Dunno of tickets being issued for 60. Even the speed camera doesn't go off for that...... Unless it is outside a school with the kiddies everywhere.

Or, is it an old wives tale, told over and over, heard by someone who knows someone...?

Don't you know someone who knows someone who's a cop?