Warning over old tyres

[YellowDog]

I just saw this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4826897

It appears that tyres have a finite life expectancy, regardless of the amount of tread.

Makes you wonder why it is not part of the WOF.

[firefighter]

I already new that, but it was worth watching as I now know how to check the production date of the tyres easily!

And yes, it's written the same for bike tryes, I just picked up my old Conti Motion sitting beside me and had a look. 2208. Still new!

[duckonin]

Yes it is serious and also very true, we put our live's on the top of tyres...

[YellowDog]

Well I am sorry to say that it is news to me.

I always assumed that if there was tread, they would be fine.

A motorcycle tyre blow out would not be any fun at all.

It makes no sense at all that tyre age is not part of a WoF test.

[cs363]

It's a little emotive (typical American media!) but still true to an extent. If the tyre is in constant use it will most likely be worn out before age really becomes an issue, particularly on a motorcycle with NZ's coarse chip roads. Though of course it is a good idea to check the age of the tyre you are buying before fitment..... :shifty:
Without taking anything away from the warning, I think this would probably be more of an issue for people doing low mileage and perhaps with several vehicles especially if they are in an environment where sustained high speeds are likely - as in US freeways.
I think most responsible mechanics and for that matter bike & car owners (that take an interest) would notice any signs of premature ageing such as cracking and the beginnings of delamination. Still, good to make people aware of these things :)

This info on the Continental site is good: http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/uk/en/continental/tyres_for_life/themes/how_old/Howold_en.html

[boman]

A rule of Thumb, is that if they are older than 5 years old, then try not to use them, reguardless of the quantity of tread on them. This can apply to car and bike tyres, and truck too. The rubber has a finite life as does the glues holding them together. I have seen "brand new" spare tyres, older than 5 years, literally blow themselves apart after a small amount of milage. The tread just delaminated off the case and then the case disintegrated. On a car that is not fun, I wouldn't like to try it on a bike.

[cs363]

A rule of Thumb, is that if they are older than 5 years old, then try not to use them, reguardless of the quantity of tread on them. This can apply to car and bike tyres, and truck too. The rubber has a finite life as does the glues holding them together. I have seen "brand new" spare tyres, older than 5 years, literally blow themselves apart after a small amount of milage. The tread just delaminated off the case and then the case disintegrated. On a car that is not fun, I wouldn't like to try it on a bike.

Yeah...I've seen spare tyres like that, tread like concrete it was so hard. You'd think it would be common sense not to use a tyre that was obviously old and very hard, but I guess some people just don't think about it ( as far as using them on a vehicle for normal use)
If anyone is ever in a situation where they have no choice but to use a spare tyre like that then just drive like it's a spacesaver (lower speed and no sudden changes of direction) and just use it to get you home/somewhere where you can get the 'good' tyre repaired/replaced. And then get a good spare!

[AllanB]

I had a 1983 750 twin Kawa I purchased new and owned for 23 years. At one point it did not get much use - maybe a 1,000 kms a year for a couple years.
After that I got back into it but found the handling to be a shit of a lot worse than I remembered (even for a 80's ride). I went though everything - bearings, suspension oil etc and it was still shite.

A casual chat in the bike shop one day pin-pointed the tyres and their age - they had heaps of tread but were 3 -4 years old. The guy believed the period of little use caused the rubber to 'go-off'. I changed the tyres and presto an instant improvement.

[McJim]

It just goes to show how important it is to ride your bike lots and fast so you wear out the tyres and get new ones before they get too old!:wari:

[boman]

It just goes to show how important it is to ride your bike lots and fast so you wear out the tyres and get new ones before they get too old!:wari:

Thats my kind of logic. The tyres won't have a chance of going off then.

[Swoop]

Old tyres do "go off".
Having purchased an older bike, some years back, that was fitted with tyres that had a good tread depth but were aged... I can confirm this.
Losing the back end in the dry, is not fun.
Cycletreads, thank you Sir!
Replace and be happy!

[sleemanj]

I've heard about tyres "drying out"/"hardening up" over time etc, but other than the year what are signs to look for.

I had an off about a month ago, in the dry, at night, going straight through a roundabout (on an 80k stretch of road), so if there was any lean involved it was minimal, I wasn't pushing hard.

For the last month I've been going over in my head just W.T.F happened. I've had plenty of offs in my life, and always been able to point and say "yep, that there was the problem", but this one...

Aside from the possibility of hitting some diesel or something (it's a busy 2 lane road, I wasn't going to saunter out into the middle to have a close look), well, I can't figure it and the best I can think is that the tyres on the bike (on it when I got it, about a month prior), although they have good tread and the manufacture date is 2005 I think, may well be poked and that there could have been the tiniest bit of something on the road which they just couldn't handle and it all went to hell in a flash.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and replace them, even if it's just psychological (and I stash the old ones to put back on).

[R6_kid]

Just brush some Kiwi Black Shoe Polish into them and you'll be sweet. :yes:

[James Deuce]

Just brush some Kiwi Black Shoe Polish into them and you'll be sweet. :yes:
Don't forget to sand them with emery paper before you do that.

[boman]

I've heard about tyres "drying out"/"hardening up" over time etc, but other than the year what are signs to look for.

I had an off about a month ago, in the dry, at night, going straight through a roundabout (on an 80k stretch of road), so if there was any lean involved it was minimal, I wasn't pushing hard.

For the last month I've been going over in my head just W.T.F happened. I've had plenty of offs in my life, and always been able to point and say "yep, that there was the problem", but this one...

Aside from the possibility of hitting some diesel or something (it's a busy 2 lane road, I wasn't going to saunter out into the middle to have a close look), well, I can't figure it and the best I can think is that the tyres on the bike (on it when I got it, about a month prior), although they have good tread and the manufacture date is 2005 I think, may well be poked and that there could have been the tiniest bit of something on the road which they just couldn't handle and it all went to hell in a flash.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and replace them, even if it's just psychological (and I stash the old ones to put back on).

IMHO if you do not know the history or can confirm the tyres are good, then replace them. It may seem expensive to do this reguarly but so is rehab. I tend to replace tyres and brake & clutch fluid & oil/filter as soon as I can, then I know whats going on with the bike.

[The Everlasting]

Oh,I didn't know that,I'm definitely replacing my tyres asap.

Rear was made Jan 2001(almost ten years old!!,and front April 2006.

[Hopeful Bastard]

Thanks for this thread man! I have just been out and checked all my tyres on the Car and Bike.. The eldest on the car is 05. Same as the bike. Thank heavens i have got a brand new pair on its way for the bike :D

[The Everlasting]

Yeah,I'm glad I found the thread and then bumped it for others too..:)


Should really be a sticky thread....


What tyres did you get btw?

[Hopeful Bastard]

Im running Pirelli Diablo's on my girl at the moment..

But this is what i am looking at putting on

http://www.roadguide.co.nz/products/184-michelin_road_sport/1195-michelin_pilot_road_2.aspx

[MSTRS]

I've heard about tyres "drying out"/"hardening up" over time etc, but other than the year what are signs to look for.



Those tyres are fucked. The pics show cracking in the tread grooves. Toss them. NOW!!

[p.dath]

Wow, that's really good to know. Thanks for bringing that to the attention of everyone!

[p.dath]

I just checked all the tyres on the vehicles here. My girlfriends daughter has a 15 year old tyre, and more concerning, I can see a line right around the tyre where the tread attaches to the tyre. It actually looks like the tread has started seperating!

Will be trying to convince her to replace that tyre!

[vifferman]

Something else about tyres (regardless of age) is that they have a finite number of heat cycles built in. My back Storm is still quite legal, but has lost a lot of its grip. It's the first tyre in years that hasn't been subject to a few long strops on the twisties, as I rarely do weekend rides.

The tread's only there to disperse water and help prevent aquapklaning - the grip comes from the stickiness of the tyre compound. We had to reppace the Michelins on the wif'es Peugeot despite them being still legal, as she did so few miles (she commutes by bus) that the tyres ahd 'gone off' and tended to spin up a bit in the wet. The replacements were deliberately a much softer compound. It's far better to wear the tread out before the rubber has lost too much of its volatiles (and therefore its grip), than the other way round.

[warewolf]

Something else about tyres (regardless of age) is that they have a finite number of heat cycles built in.Spot on. Race tyres can be poked after a handful of cycles, even street-legal race rubber only gives its best for half a dozen cycles. Those cheap ex-race tyres may not be so good after all.

[slowpoke]

A lot of it has to do with how the tyres are stored. If it's brand new and kept in a cool dry place out of the sun then it's good for quite a few years (5 according to the Dunlop rep). The diffence between a bike that sits outside on Lambton Quay most days vs another bike stored undercover is going to be huge so you can't just apply a standard figure.

Same goes for applying car data (often stored outside) to motorcycles (mostly stored inside) to motorcycles, they aren't quite the same.

[bogan]

usefull info, chur. Tyres on my project bike are prolly at least 10 years old, heaps of tread, but will replace when she gets on the road, van a daily rider have had all tyre done in last few year so will be sweet there.

[cs363]

I just checked all the tyres on the vehicles here. My girlfriends daughter has a 15 year old tyre, and more concerning, I can see a line right around the tyre where the tread attaches to the tyre. It actually looks like the tread has started seperating!

Will be trying to convince her to replace that tyre!

15 year old tyre?! Bloody hell.....I can't imagine how you'd have a tyre that old, but then I guess the majority of my vehicles do get used reasonably regularly.
Whilst there are some very good points on here regarding tyres (see vifferman's post amongst others) I tend to think that the majority of us on here wouldn't have an issue with old tyres (unless of course you've been buying used ones...or perhaps buying a bike/car that's been sitting around a while), biggest issue for most of us is trying to get them to last.... (although I'm finding the dual compound Michellins seem to be striking a happy compromise for most between grip & tread life)
Not of course taking anything away from the well made points regarding old tyres and heat cycles etc.

[YellowDog]

I started the thread after checking all 10 tyres that I use regularly.

The back ones can seem to last forever, particularly if you don't do many Ks and only short distances.

I only noticed the cracking (in the tread) after I looked more carefully at my 9 year old rear car tyres.

This really should be part of the WOF inspection. I'd prefer to fail the WOF than fail to keep my family's lives safe.

[quickbuck]

Spot on. Race tyres can be poked after a handful of cycles, even street-legal race rubber only gives its best for half a dozen cycles. Those cheap ex-race tyres may not be so good after all.

Well, actually... The last comment might be a bit misleading.... The Race Rubber you speak of would be Slicks. As for the Ex-Race Tyres you fit to your road bike, they would be treaded DOT (or Equivilent Tyres).
Chances are the Treaded tyres have only been used half a dozen times too, which is VERY less than the heat cycles the average rider would put through the tyres on his bike.

Further the Race Inters are usually warmed up evenly before they are used via tyre warmers, and cooled slowly after use by wrapping them up again.
This stops the shock of a heat change.

I would have no problems fitting ex race GPRa10's to my road bike (if we used a size that fitted it), as I know the history.
I would rather spend money on those, than some of the lower cost (great in winter when your bike is parked up) tyres available.

[pritch]

That tyre industry guy was great with his "No scientific evidence" line. He could get a job in the tobacco industry.

BIKE had an article some time back quoting a British tyre rep. He was saying that tyres degrade at X% per year (can't remember the detail) and that after four years, I think it was, they should be returned to the factory to be tested. A bit difficult in NZ.

I replaced a tyre on the current bike simply because I didn't know how old it was, but I have had trouble convincing a friend in the past that just because the tyre on his newly aquired bike looked OK that didn't mean it was.

It was good that they showed the number code so we can check if in doubt. If you make a habit of buying the latest model bike tyres though, you shouldn't strike old stock.

[quickbuck]

It was good that they showed the number code so we can check if in doubt.

That it was....
I checked out the ute.
The El cheapo Enduro GR2000's i put on the front must have been stamped out of the mold only a few months before I got them... Yay.

Conversely the Yokohama's on the back were half worn when I bought the ute 5 years ago.... So I guess they are total Plastic (Can you say Shinko?).
Good thing my dad taught me how to drift well before he would let me get my licence (which I obtained my full at 15 1/2). Any case, the L200 has nil power anyway........

All that aside, if i can get a bike tyre to last more than 12 months, then it means I have been slack! Very Slack.... Now just to keep an eye out on what is being sold to me next.

[crazyhorse]

A set of tyres don't last me long enough to worry about it - but its good info to be aware of.

Learn something new every day :)

[koba]

My A100 looked to have original tyres on it.
First rego'd 1983 I think.
It really wasn't a problem for such a bike, It wasn't capable of pushing them hard enough.
I think aslong as there are no cracks or other obvious signs of deteriation they should be all good.

Worrying about tyres that have had a few heat cycles on a racebike or that have been stored for 5 years is a bit over the top!

Treaded tyres off a racebike aren't totally fucked, on the track you are after every little bit of grip so a tiny percentage loss matters whereas on the road it will make fuck all difference. I know some people think they ride hard on the road but compared to racing on a track they don't. (or they are dead)

I raced at Wangas on Sportdeamons, the front is old, has been on the bike for over a years worth of heat cycles, has lived outside in the sun and is worn but still legal. No catastophic problems there...

[warewolf]

Well, actually... The last comment might be a bit misleading.... The Race Rubber you speak of would be Slicks. As for the Ex-Race Tyres you fit to your road bike, they would be treaded DOT (or Equivilent Tyres).
Chances are the Treaded tyres have only been used half a dozen times too, which is VERY less than the heat cycles the average rider would put through the tyres on his bike.Err... no, no, yes, true and true.

Street riders don't fit used race slicks and ride around on the street, I'm not talking about them. The problem is street riders using second-hand street-legal (or "treaded DOT" in your terms) race rubber for more than the half-a-dozen cycles those are designed to work, as you say for A LOT more cycles. They might still be "okay" especially in the short term, but they will deteriorate much more rapidly than a tyre designed for street use.

This information has appeared time and again in tyre articles in magazines; wish I had an example to present.

[quickbuck]

Err... no, no, yes, true and true.

Street riders don't fit used race slicks and ride around on the street, I'm not talking about them. The problem is street riders using second-hand street-legal (or "treaded DOT" in your terms) race rubber for more than the half-a-dozen cycles those are designed to work, as you say for A LOT more cycles. They might still be "okay" especially in the short term, but they will deteriorate much more rapidly than a tyre designed for street use.

This information has appeared time and again in tyre articles in magazines; wish I had an example to present.

Okay, I see your point.... And what koba has just said adds to it.
Fair enough, in a race you are using the tyre MUCH more than you ever would on the road...... So, even after half a dozen heat cycles, you are right, a lot more than 6 rides worth would be used in the tyre.

Thing is though, I get the most milage out of my tyres if I have managed to take them to the track half way through their life.
Then they aren't the stickiest things out.. Metzeler Sportecs (as opposed to Racetecs).

[p.dath]

I think this is quite a good thread because of the serious warning about tyres that few people are aware of. Could I encourage a few more people to rate the thread, so it stands out. Just click on "Rate this thread" at the top.

[quickbuck]

I think this is quite a good thread because of the serious warning about tyres that few people are aware of. Could I encourage a few more people to rate the thread, so it stands out. Just click on "Rate this thread" at the top.



Yeah... Done.

[FROSTY]

Sorry guysi really don't get this. Except in exceptional situations a tyre will behave in a predictable way if its a couple of years old. It isn't suddenly gonna go--"ohh im 5 years old now im gonna stop gripping"
Riding to the conditions means ALL the conditions including tyre stickyness.

I get the bit about a tyre on an A100 or maybee a tyre on a bike thats been in storage for a number f years. But otherwise to me ts an addition to the list of excuses a rider can make for not being aware of everything thats going on around them.
Even race tyres that go "off" dont just flick a switch and do so. they deteriorate at a reasonably predictable rate.

[p.dath]

Sorry guysi really don't get this. Except in exceptional situations a tyre will behave in a predictable way if its a couple of years old. It isn't suddenly gonna go--"ohh im 5 years old now im gonna stop gripping"

This is nothing to do with the tyre grip. It's to do with the glue that holds the tread onto the tyre. That glue starts breaking down after 6 years, and becomes weaker and weaker. The problem that has been happening is the tread has been coming off the tyres (as in, the entire tread, completely - we are not talking about tread wear here).

[hayd3n]

I've heard about tyres "drying out"/"hardening up" over time etc, but other than the year what are signs to look for.

I had an off about a month ago, in the dry, at night, going straight through a roundabout (on an 80k stretch of road), so if there was any lean involved it was minimal, I wasn't pushing hard.

For the last month I've been going over in my head just W.T.F happened. I've had plenty of offs in my life, and always been able to point and say "yep, that there was the problem", but this one...

Aside from the possibility of hitting some diesel or something (it's a busy 2 lane road, I wasn't going to saunter out into the middle to have a close look), well, I can't figure it and the best I can think is that the tyres on the bike (on it when I got it, about a month prior), although they have good tread and the manufacture date is 2005 I think, may well be poked and that there could have been the tiniest bit of something on the road which they just couldn't handle and it all went to hell in a flash.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and replace them, even if it's just psychological (and I stash the old ones to put back on).

fuct tyres

[MSTRS]

This is nothing to do with the tyre grip. It's to do with the glue that holds the tread onto the tyre. That glue starts breaking down after 6 years, and becomes weaker and weaker. The problem that has been happening is the tread has been coming off the tyres (as in, the entire tread, completely - we are not talking about tread wear here).

Um...some may be talking that problem (ie in the first post) but the rest are more on the lines of the properties of the rubber deteriorating, leaving reduced grip. Not the actual tread itself.

[FROSTY]

How many bike tyres have you seen that have fallen apart like that? I can honestly say in 30 years of riding I've encountered it 5 times and I must say in three of those cases the damage was caused not by age/number of heat cycles but because the bike the tyre was fitted to had had a fairly decent crash -severe enough to fold the front end.So clearly the tyre took a lot more of a bang than in normal use.
Twice Ive noticed a very mild thump from a tyre of older vintage.(1980's bike with factory rubber fitted) That has been the tyre delaminating.
I'd like to suggest that an incorrectly inflated tyre is a bigger risk




hey don't getme wrong i aint saying don't keep an eye on the tyres What I am saying is that a 6 year old tyre is not such an issue as this thread suggests

[The Everlasting]

Thanks to this thread,got me a pair of Dunlop GPR-A10's,they are super sticky,and grip very good,I feel much safer going round corners,and can go through them faster,without worrying if the back will give out.

[koba]

hey don't getme wrong i aint saying don't keep an eye on the tyres What I am saying is that a 6 year old tyre is not such an issue as this thread suggests

Agreed! <tenchars>

[cs363]

This is nothing to do with the tyre grip. It's to do with the glue that holds the tread onto the tyre. That glue starts breaking down after 6 years, and becomes weaker and weaker. The problem that has been happening is the tread has been coming off the tyres (as in, the entire tread, completely - we are not talking about tread wear here).

Umm...the tread isn't glued to the tyre, at least not a new tyre - all of the tyres components are placed together in a mould and the whole assembly is heat cured under pressure, causing the components to bond together. The only tyres I'm aware of that could be termed to have the tread glued to the carcass would be retreads, but even then it's not actually glue. Most modern retreads are in fact more properly called remoulded tyres as they go through essentially the same process as that of making a new tyre.

Whilst there has been recent publicity about tyres delaminating (think Ford Explorers in the US) this was down to a combination of problems rather than age. Frosty is right on the money - Talk to any knowledgeable person in the tyre industry and they'll tell you that by far the largest percentage of tyre failures are caused by improper inflation followed by abuse of the tyre or incorrect fitment for the vehicle, damage by rough tyre fitters and so on. Tyres that are properly inflated and regularly inspected for cuts, nails and so on almost never fail.

Old tyres on the other hand and especially in New Zealand suffer from ozone degradation amongst other things, most manufacturers quote 6-10 years as the life of a tyre regardless of tread condition, but this varies immensely depending on how and where the tyres are stored (whether on or off the vehicle) as well as usage and maintenance. As I understand it the main issue is the tread rubber going off as the natural oils bleed out making the rubber hard and less 'grippy'. Obviously a tyre that is old enough and hard enough will delaminate eventually, though this is more commonly seen as bits of tread coming off in chunks rather than a whole tread peeling off as you sometimes see with retreaded truck tyres.

The main thing is that this thread is educational for those that may not have been aware of the meanings of the markings on the sidewall and a timely reminder to include the condition of your tyres in your maintenance schedule as well as finding out the correct tyre pressures for your particular model and riding style and keeping the tyres properly inflated at all times. I should also add that keeping your wheels balanced will also improve tyre life as well as improving your comfort and safety.

And as tyres play a big part in the psyche of riding, if you're not happy with them - change them! At the end of the day they're the only thing between you and the road, so you want to be comfortable about what you're riding on!
Luckily I don't think any of my vehicles will ever be idle enough to get tyres older than the manufacturers recommendation, particularly the bikes! :)

* Whilst both parties in the Ford Explorer/Firestone debacle continued to blame each other with neither accepting responsibility, general consensus within the motor trade seems to point to the issue being caused by a combination of the tyres fitted being of too light a specification for the vehicle and Ford quoting too low tyre pressures for continuous high speed operation.

[cs363]

I'd like to suggest that an incorrectly inflated tyre is a bigger risk

- hey don't getme wrong i aint saying don't keep an eye on the tyres What I am saying is that a 6 year old tyre is not such an issue as this thread suggests


Agreed! <tenchars>

Agreed x 2 :)

[p.dath]

Umm...the tread isn't glued to the tyre, at least not a new tyre - all of the tyres components are placed together in a mould and the whole assembly is heat cured under pressure, causing the components to bond together.

I don't know anything about this apart from what was in the news article in the first post. They showed a tyre beng made exactly how you describe. They also say that the Brutish Tyre Association (or some similar name) has issued a public warning. They also said Ford has asked the US Government it also put in place a restriction.
I can't see these companies asking for these things, and giving out those warnings if there is nothing to it.

ABC can be a bit "sensational" at times, so perhaps the story is something minor blown out of proportion.

[koba]

I
ABC can be a bit "sensational" at times, so perhaps the story is something minor blown out of proportion.

Never!?!?!!?

[cs363]

I don't know anything about this apart from what was in the news article in the first post. They showed a tyre beng made exactly how you describe. They also say that the Brutish Tyre Association (or some similar name) has issued a public warning. They also said Ford has asked the US Government it also put in place a restriction.
I can't see these companies asking for these things, and giving out those warnings if there is nothing to it.

ABC can be a bit "sensational" at times, so perhaps the story is something minor blown out of proportion.

There's definitely been some dodgy goings on in the US with retailers selling very old tyres as new which that article pertains to, though from what I can tell it's much more of an issue over there than anywhere else in the (civilised) world, probably due to stockpiling etc. And you're right ABC do tend to sensationalise things, so there's definitely some spin in there :)
And you won't get any disagreement from me regarding a 'sell by date' for tyres, in fact I'm surprised that this hasn't been put in place earlier.

I don't think we have quite the same level of dodgy retailers in the tyre industry as they do in the US (if you've ever travelled there you'll know what i mean) and the distributors have nothing like the stock holding here that US ones would. We also have the protection of the CGA.

But I don't want to detract from the fact that it's good that people know more about their tyres (and their vehicles) - that can't be a bad thing!

FWIW the (car) tyre dealer I use gives a 500km replacement guarantee that I think is pretty damn good, if you aren't happy with the tyres you've bought and return to him within 500km he'll swap them over for something else, no questions asked!

[MSTRS]

Thanks to this thread,got me a pair of Dunlop GPR-A10's,they are super sticky,and grip very good,I feel much safer going round corners,and can go through them faster,without worrying if the back will give out.

Great news! Those tyres I saw on your bike were just waiting to kill you. It would have been the front that let go. Ask McJim about 'Road Winners'...
You are unlikely to outride the Dunlop's abilities, but you will pay for that in wear.

[YellowDog]

I'd like to suggest that an incorrectly inflated tyre is a bigger risk



Agreed, but anyone who rides a motorcycle with inappropriate tyre pressures is putting themself in danger and any resulting accident could be reasonably explained by thier foolish missadventure.

Whereas someone riding a bike with 8 year old regularly checked and correctly inflated tyres with full tread that has a serious accident due to the age of the decaying rubber disintegrating beneath them.............................................. ............

Everyone knows to check their tyre pressures and the tread depths.

Not many know that rubber compound their tyres is made from has a finite life expectancy regardless of road wear.

IMO - Being able to check the age of your tyres is yet another critical safety check and more important for two wheel vehicles than it is for four.

[cs363]

Agreed, but anyone who rides a motorcycle with inappropriate tyre pressures is putting themself in danger and any resulting accident could be reasonably explained by thier foolish missadventure.

Whereas someone riding a bike with 8 year old regularly checked and correctly inflated tyres with full tread that has a serious accident due to the age of the decaying rubber disintegrating beneath them.............................................. ............

Everyone knows to check their tyre pressures and the tread depths.

Not many know that rubber compound their tyres is made from has a finite life expectancy regardless of road wear.

IMO - Being able to check the age of your tyres is yet another critical safety check and more important for two wheel vehicles than it is for four.

Aha! BUT if they were regularly checking and inflating them, surely they'd notice that the rubber was decaying? :whistle: (p/t)

In all seriousness though, the last sentence in your post is something we can all agree on :niceone:

[YellowDog]

Aha! BUT if they were regularly checking and inflating them, surely they'd notice that the rubber was decaying? :whistle: (p/t)

I think the point here is that the decay is not obvious to the untrained eye.

I am curious to whom whether environmental conditions contribute towards more rapid decay. e.g. Extreme cold or heat.

I suspect that the extra special discounted new tyres you are being offered from your tyre traders are not as new as you would expect.

[cs363]

I think the point here is that the decay is not obvious to the untrained eye.

I am curious to whom whether environmental conditions contribute towards more rapid decay. e.g. Extreme cold or heat.

I suspect that the extra special discounted new tyres you are being offered from your tyre traders are not as new as you would expect.

Apparently it's sunlight, temperature cycling and for some reason that I'm not sure, coastal climates that are listed as the main factors. I wouldn't have thought salt laden sea air would affect rubber...but hey, I'm no scientist! :)

And I certainly don't have any concerns over the age of my tyres as I've known about the marking codes for years, plus I wear the fuckers out too quickly....... :oi-grr:

But yes folks, 'tread' carefully if being offered cheap tyres......

[The Everlasting]

Great news! Those tyres I saw on your bike were just waiting to kill you. It would have been the front that let go. Ask McJim about 'Road Winners'...
You are unlikely to outride the Dunlop's abilities, but you will pay for that in wear.

Yeah,others have also said to get rid of those tyres,so I did.

Yeah them Road Winners aye..:lol:

[Kickaha]

.
* Whilst both parties in the Ford Explorer/Firestone debacle continued to blame each other with neither accepting responsibility, general consensus within the motor trade seems to point to the issue being caused by a combination of the tyres fitted being of too light a specification for the vehicle and Ford quoting too low tyre pressures for continuous high speed operation.

The fact that other brands had a higher failure rate than Firestone and that Explorers had failures with just about every brand fitted would point to it being something other than a tyre fault

Around 2500 of those tyres on Explorers in NZ but not a single recorded failure of the type they had in the USA but we don't run our tyres at 24psi

I saw a tyre failure last year on a tyre that had done around 200km from the time it was fitted to the vehicle (Honda CRV), the tyre had been on the spare unused for 12 years before hand and did about $1200 worth of damage to the vehicle when it came apart

In around 30 years of riding and being around Motorcycles I have seen one tyre failure due to tread seperation on a Yokohama fitted to my brothers RZ250

[cs363]

The fact that other brands had a higher failure rate than Firestone and that Explorers had failures with just about every brand fitted would point to it being something other than a tyre fault

Around 2500 of those tyres on Explorers in NZ but not a single recorded failure of the type they had in the USA but we don't run our tyres at 24psi

I saw a tyre failure last year on a tyre that had done around 200km from the time it was fitted to the vehicle (Honda CRV), the tyre had been on the spare unused for 12 years before hand and did about $1200 worth of damage to the vehicle when it came apart

In around 30 years of riding and being around Motorcycles I have seen one tyre failure due to tread seperation on a Yokohama fitted to my brothers RZ250

I would tend to agree, but there's so much debate over the whole Explorer/Firestone issue I doubt we'll ever know the real cause. Explorers certainly seem to have more than their fair share of 'issues'.... and as you point out, we don't run our tyres at such ridiculously low pressures and we don't have mile upon mile of straight freeway where we can get the same sort of sustatined high speeds.

And likewise, having spent a similar amount of time riding/being around bikes I can't recall ever seeing a motorcycle tyre failure due to tread seperation.

[p.dath]

and as you point out, we don't run our tyres at such ridiculously low pressures and we don't have mile upon mile of straight freeway where we can get the same sort of sustained high speeds

Forgive my ignorance. What sort of sustained high speed are we talking about here?

[boman]

I would tend to agree, but there's so much debate over the whole Explorer/Firestone issue I doubt we'll ever know the real cause. Explorers certainly seem to have more than their fair share of 'issues'.... and as you point out, we don't run our tyres at such ridiculously low pressures and we don't have mile upon mile of straight freeway where we can get the same sort of sustained high speeds.

And likewise, having spent a similar amount of time riding/being around bikes I can't recall ever seeing a motorcycle tyre failure due to tread separation.

If I remember correctly, the Firestone/Explorer issue was far more apparant in hot enviroments, where the tyres were generating alot of heat, due to the low tyre pressure. Also IIRC Fords solution to the problem was to get the tyres Overinflated to try an alleviate the problem. Thus causing more problems. Also, once the ford claim was thrown out of court, then Firestone counter sued Ford for defamation, and I think they won. I think Firestone were able to prove that it was a Vehicle fault not a tyre issue.

[cs363]

Forgive my ignorance. What sort of sustained high speed are we talking about here?

It's not high speed as perhaps us motorcyclists would tend to think of, but average freeway speeds in the US tend to be 10-15mph over the posted limit (at least in CA!) so anywhere from 60-85mph.
The tyre pressures were more the issue, Ford advised ridiculously low pressures in the owners manual, something like 24 or 26psi. The same vehicle here (remember this is a large SUV, probably quite heavily laden) would be running at least 10-15psi more as a rule of thumb.
And remember in the US there are mile upon mile of freeway and generally quite high ambient temperatures, so the combination of all these factors would allow a major build up of heat in the tyre.

[cs363]

If I remember correctly, the Firestone/Explorer issue was far more apparant in hot enviroments, where the tyres were generating alot of heat, due to the low tyre pressure. Also IIRC Fords solution to the problem was to get the tyres Overinflated to try an alleviate the problem. Thus causing more problems. Also, once the ford claim was thrown out of court, then Firestone counter sued Ford for defamation, and I think they won. I think Firestone were able to prove that it was a Vehicle fault not a tyre issue.

From what I recall it seemed to be a combination of too low a tyre pressure specified for such a heavy vehicle, possible manufacturing defects with the tyres (I believe all the tyres that failed were manufactured at Firestone's Decatur, Illinois plant which has since been closed, largely due to the Exploder issue) and alleged design faults with the vehicle itself. I also remember reading that a similar number of Explorers fitted with Goodyear tyres had considerably less failures and that the Goodyear tyre had an extra belt or liner (something like that). Other reports state that Ford was struggling with handling issues with the Explorer and it's predecessor the Bronco, way before the Firestone rubber hit the fan.
I don't believe that either side had a conclusive victory, at the end of the day the only winners were the multitudes of lawyers who lined their pockets at Ford, Firestone and the customers expense - not an unusual situation in the US!

Anyway, the whole Ford Exploder/Firestone issue is very contentious - just try Googling it and see the number of sites that come up and probably leading us a bit off track here.

However, what it does highlight (and reinforces Frosty's earlier post) is that tyre pressures are extremely important not only for the performance of your tyres, but also their life and yours!

[quickbuck]

Forgive my ignorance. What sort of sustained high speed are we talking about here?

EXACTLY 70mph for a constant 2 hours or more... High speed for a 2.5 tonne vehicle running on 24psi.
Heat, the killer of all rubber ;)

[warewolf]

Thing is though, I get the most milage out of my tyres if I have managed to take them to the track half way through their life.Quite possibly because they have had all the goodness 'cooked' out of them, and have gone hard?

I don't expect the tyres will catastrophically fail without warning, just really wanted to put the idea out there that street-legal race rubber does have some negative characteristics not immediately apparent.

[warewolf]

How many bike tyres have you seen that have fallen apart like that?Quite a few recent reports of adventure tyres de-laminating. Were they abused? Questionable, some reported warranty replacements, so probably not according to the distributors.

Problem for adv riders is wanting to use low off-road pressures and knobby-type grip in the dirt, and higher on-road pressures and high-speed sports-type grip on the tar. Makes the tyres prone to being flogged out on road at inadequate pressures.

[FROSTY]

Thats not fallen appart thats ripped appart.You see that with knobblies all the time.

[Ixion]

Yith. Knobblies is different rules. You can rip the knobs off knobblies just braking hard. DAMHIK.

[YellowDog]

Back in 1991 my ex-wife was driving down the motorway at constant speed. She wasn't chaning lane or braking. Without warning the near side rear tyre exploded and she had to keep control and rapidly steer over to the hard shoulder.

When I arrived to pick her up, there was no near side rear tyre. All that was left was a few elements of the tyre's side wall still attached to the rim.

Unfortunately she was unhurt. Just a bit shaken. The tyres had tread however they were quite old.

If it was a front tyre or she was on two wheels, I may well have been collecting a significant life insurance payout.

[Kickaha]

If it was a front tyre or she was on two wheels, I may well have been collecting a significant life insurance payout.

generally if it is a front tyre you retain more control, left rear tyre is the worst one to have let go


I also remember reading that a similar number of Explorers fitted with Goodyear tyres had considerably less failures

They may have had less failures overall but the report I read said Goodyear had less tyres fitted to the Explorer but a higher percentage of failures, they also had failures on just about every brand fitted and the majority of those failures where on the rear of the vehicle

[cs363]

generally if it is a front tyre you retain more control, left rear tyre is the worst one to have let go



They may have had less failures overall but the report I read said Goodyear had less tyres fitted to the Explorer but a higher percentage of failures, they also had failures on just about every brand fitted and the majority of those failures where on the rear of the vehicle

Yes, I've seen varying reports on this (as with the whole Ford/Firestone saga) though most seem to echo this taken from Wikipedia (yes, yes I know! But the information is repeated elsewhere):

Ford and Firestone have both blamed the other for the failures, which has led to the severing of relations between the two companies. Firestone has claimed that they have found no faults in design nor manufacture, and that failures have been caused by Ford's recommended tire pressure being too low and the Explorer's design. Ford, meanwhile, point out that Goodyear tires to the same specification have a spotless safety record when installed on the Explorer, although an extra liner was included into the Goodyear design after recommendations to that effect were made to Ford. Firestone included an extra liner in its product and this was then also used to replace tires on Ford Explorers.

[quickbuck]

Quite possibly because they have had all the goodness 'cooked' out of them, and have gone hard?

I don't expect the tyres will catastrophically fail without warning, just really wanted to put the idea out there that street-legal race rubber does have some negative characteristics not immediately apparent.

NOPE!
Actually it was because i can actually het rid of that darn lump that appears about half way across the tyre due to too much straight line running.......

The last rear was remoced when there was less than 1.7mm of tread over the WHOLE tyre.. Still had the shape it was when new.
Had done 9000k on a Sportec. Really good considering i had to do one at 5000k once....

[yachtie10]

Thanks to this thread,got me a pair of Dunlop GPR-A10's,they are super sticky,and grip very good,I feel much safer going round corners,and can go through them faster,without worrying if the back will give out.

Good on you
make sure you look at safer gear too

[Kickaha]

Ford, meanwhile, point out that Goodyear tires to the same specification have a spotless safety record when installed on the Explorer, although an extra liner was included into the Goodyear design after recommendations to that effect were made to Ford. Firestone included an extra liner in its product and this was then also used to replace tires on Ford Explorers.[/I]

http://www.fordexplorerrollover.com/rollover_rates/Default.cfm
I was wrong about the Goodyears,it was their light truck recall i was thinking of

When you look into how may recalls there are and what brands are involved it just about make you want to walk everywhere, there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same amount for Motorcycle tyres, I wonder why that is?r

[cs363]

http://www.fordexplorerrollover.com/rollover_rates/Default.cfm
I was wrong about the Goodyears,it was their light truck recall i was thinking of

When you look into how may recalls there are and what brands are involved it just about make you want to walk everywhere, there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same amount for Motorcycle tyres, I wonder why that is?r

:lol: You're not wrong on the walking comment!
I think it's probably down to the motorcycle market being predominantly an enthusiast market so perhaps a little more care and maintenance is undertaken, not to mention that it's pretty bloody hard to seriously overload a bike in comparison to a car or SUV etc.
I'm picking there's probably a much higher percentage of car/SUV drivers that don't care about their tyres and probably never check them, multiplied when you start thinking about government and company vehicles and so on......
I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of tyre failures are down to user issues rather than manufacturing defects.

[FROSTY]

I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of tyre failures are down to user issues rather than manufacturing defects.
Could't agree more.

[Kickaha]

I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of tyre failures are down to user issues rather than manufacturing defects.

I'd be willing to bet most of those "user issues" that cause the failures would be incorrect inflation pressures

[boman]

I'd be willing to bet most of those "user issues" that cause the failures would be incorrect inflation pressures

Underinflation is a good killer of all tyres, from wheelbarrow to truck.

[pritch]

I just read somewhere that almost all motorcycle tyre problems were due to underinflation.

Was there not a recall involving Michelin Pilot Powers in the last year or two?

[cs363]

I just read somewhere that almost all motorcycle tyre problems were due to underinflation.

Was there not a recall involving Michelin Pilot Powers in the last year or two?

That doesn't surprise me at all! And yes, there was a recall on Pilot Powers three years ago, pretty sure it only applied to the US though but here's the infor if anyone wants to check their tyres: http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/06/23/michelin-pilot-power-motorcycle-tire-recall/ & http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=29445

[quickbuck]

That doesn't surprise me at all! And yes, there was a recall on Pilot Powers three years ago, pretty sure it only applied to the US though but here's the infor if anyone wants to check their tyres: http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/06/23/michelin-pilot-power-motorcycle-tire-recall/ & http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=29445

Mmm, due to their 300kg long wheelbase ZZR's and the ilk running 20 psi.... at a pick.

[NordieBoy]

How about those running Shinko 705's on Triumph Tigers with the tyre pressures set according to the sidewall.
33psi and massive overheating and blistering rubber.

On a DR650 - no problem at those pressures.
They're getting the sidewall's on the new ones to read 36psi max.

I'm using an Avon Gripster with a manufacturing date of 1996 on the rear at the moment.
But only until I get the $ together for a pair of 705's.

[Kickaha]

How about those running Shinko 705's on Triumph Tigers with the tyre pressures set according to the sidewall.
33psi and massive overheating and blistering rubber.

On a DR650 - no problem at those pressures.
They're getting the sidewall's on the new ones to read 36psi max.



Whats the difference in the weight of those bikes?

[cs363]

Whats the difference in the weight of those bikes?

About 50Kg based on 2007 models....

[Motu]

I just read somewhere that almost all motorcycle tyre problems were due to underinflation.


I've been doing it wrong all these years....I always run underinflated.My choice,I haven't crashed for it,and have no tyre problems.

[quickbuck]

I've been doing it wrong all these years....I always run underinflated.My choice,I haven't crashed for it,and have no tyre problems.

Ummm, a few PSI below the recommended can be fine... so long as it doesn't cause undue wear.
Lett pressure can mean more mechanical grip... right to the poing the sidewalls flex so much that they no longer perform their function.... and you get a "walking" sensation.

Bare in mind that there is always some sidewall flex in tyres. Just too much is not the best.

[Ixion]

I suspect Mr Motu runs more than a few psi under. He knows what he is doing.

[Motu]

and you get a "walking" sensation.
.

Walking is good - I know where I am when they start walking.