I've broken my half face virginity

[Spyke]

Well today was was my fist time that i wore a half face helmet, At surburban street pace it was really amazing, up in till now I have always worn a full face but the freedom of feeling I got was amazing.

the bugs coating my face and challenging my sight was interesting but if you have't tried it I suggest you do. I had a smile like a cheshire cat which I haven't had i a while, I always thought the half hats looked ghey :whocares: I can now see why people choose to wear them sometimes :Punk:.

god I'm envious of what it feels like with no helm. except if I fell off :shutup: i wish i was around when helmits weren't compolsery, luky old sods lol!


rock on fellow riders let the wind carry those mullets haha

spyke

[YellowDog]

I wear an open helmet with a visor for work.

If you get hot, just put the visor up.

Face plants not recommended.

[cs363]

Face plants not recommended.

Err...yes, unless of course you're actually in the market for facial reconstruction...... :laugh:
Whilst I appreciate them being cooler (temperature wise...) to wear and appreciate others right to wear what they want, I personally wouldn't wear one having seen the aftermath of accidents in them - rather than post gruesome pics just imagine for instance if this guy had had an open face:

http://jeff.dean.home.att.net/swisherhelmet1.jpg


Just my 2 cents...

[crazyhorse]

Better get them toothpicks ready - you guys look funny with those bugs squished between your teeth too. :killingme :lol:

[AllanB]

Next post title reads: "Anyone know a good dentist"........:shifty:

Not my cup-o-tea.

Yesterday for example my FF was covered in stinky lake bugs. I sure as hell wouldn't want those on my face (plus it must hurt like hell when they hit).

FF Flip front would be the go, with the ability to flip open at low speed/traffic lights and behave like a FF.

[jrandom]

I so very, very badly want to ride this motorcycle (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7SczI5autzw/SFfdM2iPoAI/AAAAAAAAAUI/UTvROBBDi5c/s800/BobberSake_1.jpg) wearing this helmet (http://www.davida.co.uk/type.php?id=jet).

In fact, fuck it. I'm going to call the shop in Wellesley St and book a test ride for next weekend. (I popped in and had a drool over that bike t'other day, but I was on my bicycle at the time.)

I'll just have to imagine the open-face helmet part, I suppose.

[smoky]

When I was younger and worried about being cool, I wore an open face helmet, it was the cool look, the guys I rode around with would think you were a soft cock or wusss if I turned up with a full face helmet
Later i had a full face with out a visor and cut away where the chin is - so I could have a smoke without taking my helmet off.

But what a lot of shyte, bugs and road crap in your face???? Just wait until one of those big juicy bugs hit your face and expode with guts and blood all over you, ride with an open face at open road speed limits and see how many infected eyes you end up with, even with a good pair of glasses the small bugs still get into the corner of your eyes.
You'll absolutely love the sensation when you get something up your nose and sniff down the back of your throat.
But the best is yet to come, the sting of those little stones hitting your face, the ones that occasionally 'ping' off your helmet every now and then.
And I will never forget getting a insect with a sting getting stuck between the edge of my helmet and my temple......... sting sting sting

Yep love the freedom of open face helmets.
:stupid:

[Big Dave]

I've had a Davida Jet for about 7 years. Nice hat - the leather lining lasts very well and it's the quietest helmet I have.

It's about appropriate use - pootling around town on a cruiser I like it.
Open road on a sports tourer - I don't.

[jrandom]

I've had a Davida Jet for about 7 years. Nice hat - the leather lining lasts very well and it's the quietest helmet I have.

Fancy bringing a camera along on a northwest loop next weekend if I can talk the shop into letting me take the Bobbersake out?

Has KR done anything on the Deus machines yet?

[YellowDog]

I've had a Davida Jet for about 7 years. Nice hat - the leather lining lasts very well and it's the quietest helmet I have.

It's about appropriate use - pootling around town on a cruiser I like it.
Open road on a sports tourer - I don't.
Exactly.

Cruising along the promenade at 20kph rather than pushing 150kph up the motorway.

BTW: I tried a Shark Evoline the other day. Very comforable and legal to ride whilst flipped open.

(so I've been told)

[McJim]

I so very, very badly want to ride this motorcycle (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7SczI5autzw/SFfdM2iPoAI/AAAAAAAAAUI/UTvROBBDi5c/s800/BobberSake_1.jpg) wearing this helmet (http://www.davida.co.uk/type.php?id=jet).

In fact, fuck it. I'm going to call the shop in Wellesley St and book a test ride for next weekend. (I popped in and had a drool over that bike t'other day, but I was on my bicycle at the time.)

I'll just have to imagine the open-face helmet part, I suppose.

You're a poser Dan. :rofl: You'd get the same effect on your pushie giving it yehaw in a big gear on a long steep down hill. Goggles mandatory as catching a bug in your eye at 70+kph can seriously effect your ability to see where you are going.

[davereid]

...the bugs coating my face and challenging my sight was interesting but if you have't tried it I suggest you do. I had a smile like a cheshire cat which I haven't had i a while, I always thought the half hats looked ghey :whocares: I can now see why people choose to wear them sometimes :Punk:. god I'm envious of what it feels like with no helm. except if I fell off :shutup: i wish i was around when helmits weren't compolsery, luky old sods lol!

Yeah, riding without a helmet is a great feeling.

I live down a quiet country road, and on a sunny day, I often put the helmet in the top box, and enjoy the sights and sounds, and smells of the country sans helmet.

Don't get too wrapped up in the safety aspect, helmets are great, but not the panacea that those who have swallowed all the propaganda will have you think.

Yes, it is up to twice as dangerous as riding with a helmet. Then again riding a motorbike is twenty-five times more dangerous than driving a car. If safety is your sole guide as to what you do, get a convertible.

[Big Dave]

Fancy bringing a camera along on a northwest loop next weekend if I can talk the shop into letting me take the Bobbersake out?

Has KR done anything on the Deus machines yet?

Several cups of coffee. I think we are keener than they are on doing something.

Could have legs. See what the forecast brings.

[Bronson]

When I was younger and worried about being cool, I wore an open face helmet, it was the cool look, the guys I rode around with would think you were a soft cock or wusss if I turned up with a full face helmet
Later i had a full face with out a visor and cut away where the chin is - so I could have a smoke without taking my helmet off.
:stupid:

Yep, back in the day when we were 10 feet tall & bullet proof. My mate did the same thing to his helmet. It wasn't the bugs in his teeth that fucked his life, it was the road when he hit it hard. Food thru a straw for six months & face for radio. Amazing how fast everyone went back to proper full face.

[Zuki lover]

Next post title reads: "Anyone know a good dentist"........:shifty:

Not my cup-o-tea.

Yesterday for example my FF was covered in stinky lake bugs. I sure as hell wouldn't want those on my face (plus it must hurt like hell when they hit).

FF Flip front would be the go, with the ability to flip open at low speed/traffic lights and behave like a FF.

Yip............ I'll have a cuppa tea if you're gonna make one :lol:

[mansell]

Always had an open face in the shed, it's sooo much easier when your working on the bike and don't want to put your smoke out.:yes:

As for bugs, some cultures eat fried bugs as a delicacy, I prefer mine on the wing.

And yes it hurts when you face plant wearing a half face :Oops:

[rosie631]

Yep, all good til you come off. I came off the bike at 100ks recently. Faceplanted and slid 100metres down the road on my front. I reckon if i hadn't been wearing a full face with visor my whole face would have been ground off on the road.
I used to wear an open face years ago and i agree they do feel better but no way you'll ever catch me wearing one now.

[vdog]

[QUOTE=AllanB;1129438991]Next post title reads: "Anyone know a good dentist"........:shifty:

Not my cup-o-tea.

QUOTE]

I don't like tea, nor do I like bugcatchers............but I do get pissed when the reg cost just keep on escalating, and idiots keep finding way to help the government keep those costs climbing - kinda like the wanker I saw riding a VN1500 in shorts jandals and a singlet.......DONT BE A HOMO, WEAR THE PROPER GEAR, or get in the car naked with the air con on - its cooler and less restrictive

[Ixion]

I rode for years and years with no helmet at all, or open face (cos full face hadn't been invented). Googles and scarf are your friends, sorts out the bug issues.

As to the safety aspect, firstly I have a secret that makes open face (or, indeed, no helmet) perfectly safe. Don't fall off. Simple, eh.

There is also some quite reasonable evidence that the extra jaw protection of a full face (probably somewhat over rated when comparing with a Jet style where the helmet comes down to cover the cheeks) is paid for by greater risk of neck injuries.

The "look at my crashed full face see the front is all scratched up imagine if it had been an open face" pictures are also somewhat misleading. The extra frontal weight of the full face pulls your head forward and down. So a full face is far more likely to end up scraping than a Jet style, where the weight of the helmet being at the back, your head is pulled back away from the road.

Over the decades I knew quite a few guys who crashed wearing open face. Never heard of one with mouth or jaw injuries. Of course SOMEWHERE is the world it will have happened to someone. But, the odds are low, and meaningless compared to the far greater overall dangers of motorcycling.

If you are that paranoid about getting hurt, maybe motorcycling's not for you.

Let everyone do their own thing. Motorcycling shuld not be about telling other people what to do.

[breakaway]

the bugs coating my face and challenging my sight was interesting but if you have't tried it I suggest you do.

No thanks, I'm quite fond of my chin and teeth.

[paulmac]

Let everyone do their own thing. Motorcycling shuld not be about telling other people what to do.

This should be posted in every thread on KB !!!!!!

[Pedrostt500]

There was a photo on rotten.com that put me off open face helmets, for open road riding.

[cc rider]

Yip............ I'll have a cuppa tea if you're gonna make one :lol:When I off'd & face planted into the gutter curb, my FF had scratch marks from the front of the visor around to the back. I did a rather good impersonation of a torpedo.

..but I'm still a smuck. I wear either. Yeah, tend to wear the open when jumping on the back of the HD. But prefer the FF. MP3 sounds better. Rah! Rah! RocknRoll! :banana:

That's black tea for me, thanks. Are there bikkies???

[scumdog]

Err...yes, unless of course you're actually in the market for facial reconstruction...... :laugh:
Whilst I appreciate them being cooler (temperature wise...) to wear and appreciate others right to wear what they want, I personally wouldn't wear one having seen the aftermath of accidents in them - rather than post gruesome pics just imagine for instance if this guy had had an open face:

http://jeff.dean.home.att.net/swisherhelmet1.jpg


Just my 2 cents...

On that note, "I personally wouldn't ride a motorbike having seen the aftermath of accidents on them.." - ya get me drift??

If you wear an open face (or 'shorty' as I do) you just make yourself aware of the increased risk and cope with it the best you can.:yes:

[Hans]

's why I have a flip-face...

[breakaway]

's why I have a flip-face...

I'm pretty sure those are no Bette than half face helmets if you come off. Was at the local dealership recently, and saw a sticker on a flip face saying it does not provide chin protection - i.e. It will flip up when your face hits the ground.

[JimO]

i suppose it the same as the retards that have their bike helmets hanging over their handelbars it wont happen to them or they will quickly chuck it on as they go over the bars, or like ixon said the weight of a open face will pull your head back......yea rite...its your head who gives a shit apart from you

[Motu]

There is also some quite reasonable evidence that the extra jaw protection of a full face (probably somewhat over rated when comparing with a Jet style where the helmet comes down to cover the cheeks) is paid for by greater risk of neck injuries.

The "look at my crashed full face see the front is all scratched up imagine if it had been an open face" pictures are also somewhat misleading. The extra frontal weight of the full face pulls your head forward and down. So a full face is far more likely to end up scraping than a Jet style, where the weight of the helmet being at the back, your head is pulled back away from the road.


Also the extra protective gear we wear these days makes us more cumbersome,physical movements are very restricted.I've crashed with no helmet,and most of my crashes were with an open face - but I'd also be wearing just a leather jacket at the most.The strongest force in a crash is Mother Nature's survival instinct - your body will exert the utmost means to keep your head off the ground....with a heavy full face you haven't got a hope of holding your head up.

We need Carver to do some videos of crashes with and without helmets,and open face compared to full face - I reckon he's up to the challenge....

[davereid]

I've crashed with no helmet,and most of my crashes were with an open face - but I'd also be wearing just a leather jacket at the most..with a heavy full face you haven't got a hope of holding your head up.....

Its almost a perfect example of the power of propaganda.

We have actually reached the point where new riders, or old ones returning, regard the helmet as an almost magical device.

Its credited with making motorcycling safe, and new riders can't even contemplate riding without one - phrases like "it makes my skin crawl" come to mind !

Yet for many years, we rode without them.

The introduction of helmets was so effective, that no one has ever correctly guessed the date of introduction from the crash death statistics I have published here on KB, as it didnt change anything.

There is no doubt in my mind that helmets save lives. But IMHO we massively overcredit them.

I often wonder if riders were prohibited from wearing helmets, if they would ride more safely, and take less risks !

[Motu]

I often wonder if riders were prohibited from wearing helmets, if they would ride more safely, and take less risks !

Definitely my stance on safety....they are so wrapped in cotton wool they think it's the only safe way to be.I'm sure if they rode around in T shirts and shorts with no helmets then motorcycle injuries and deaths would drop 100%.Nothing like the fear of death to make them wake up their ideas.I extend this to insurance too - if your car or bike will always be repaired or replaced and a loaner supplied for any inconvenience....why bother to take care?

[The Pastor]

if u think half face is crazy, wait till you try no lid!

[cs363]

On that note, "I personally wouldn't ride a motorbike having seen the aftermath of accidents on them.." - ya get me drift??

If you wear an open face (or 'shorty' as I do) you just make yourself aware of the increased risk and cope with it the best you can.:yes:

Agreed, hence the 'personally' tag, you'll note I also said ' I appreciate others right to wear what they want' so certainly not playing an ATTGAT role here.
Likewise with gear, I prefer to wear all the gear most of the time, there are however times when knowing the risks involved I might choose to wear innapropriate gear for whatever reason and as you say the key then is to ride appropriately.
I certainly don't believe that full face (or any other style) helmets or the best gear in the world makes you bullet proof (as some obviously do) but it can and does help reduce injury in most cases.
As Ixion correctly points out, motorcycling is a dangerous activity regardless of what you wear.
But, getting back to open face helmets one of the things I dislike about them is the crap that gets in your face and eyes (see smoky's post #7). Anyway, each to his own....

[PrincessBandit]

...
But, getting back to open face helmets one of the things I dislike about them is the crap that gets in your face and eyes (see smoky's post #7). Anyway, each to his own....

Not to mention that softies like me hate heavy rain which feels like needles driving into your face!

[Pussy]

so certainly not playing an ATTGAT role here.
Likewise with gear, I prefer to wear all the gear most of the time, there are however times when knowing the risks involved I might choose to wear no gear at all for whatever reason and as you say the key then is to ride appropriately.


Would be a bit cold, though? :)

[cs363]

Not to mention that softies like me hate heavy rain which feels like needles driving into your face!

:lol: Err...yes, I was thinking about you guys today - bet you had a lovely ride home ...NOT. Glad to hear you're back safe and sound anyway. :)

[cs363]

Would be a bit cold, though? :)

Subtle, but not quite what I wrote.... bastard! :bleh:

[Ixion]

This peeved me so much that I dug out my old open face and went for a blat. Refreshingly different.

And I survived

[Dan Mapp]

I so very, very badly want to ride this motorcycle (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7SczI5autzw/SFfdM2iPoAI/AAAAAAAAAUI/UTvROBBDi5c/s800/BobberSake_1.jpg) wearing this helmet (http://www.davida.co.uk/type.php?id=jet).

In fact, fuck it. I'm going to call the shop in Wellesley St and book a test ride for next weekend. (I popped in and had a drool over that bike t'other day, but I was on my bicycle at the time.)

I'll just have to imagine the open-face helmet part, I suppose.That is 1 cool motorbike :rockon:

[Dan Mapp]

I rode for years and years with no helmet at all, or open face (cos full face hadn't been invented). Googles and scarf are your friends, sorts out the bug issues.

As to the safety aspect, firstly I have a secret that makes open face (or, indeed, no helmet) perfectly safe. Don't fall off. Simple, eh.

There is also some quite reasonable evidence that the extra jaw protection of a full face (probably somewhat over rated when comparing with a Jet style where the helmet comes down to cover the cheeks) is paid for by greater risk of neck injuries.

The "look at my crashed full face see the front is all scratched up imagine if it had been an open face" pictures are also somewhat misleading. The extra frontal weight of the full face pulls your head forward and down. So a full face is far more likely to end up scraping than a Jet style, where the weight of the helmet being at the back, your head is pulled back away from the road.

Over the decades I knew quite a few guys who crashed wearing open face. Never heard of one with mouth or jaw injuries. Of course SOMEWHERE is the world it will have happened to someone. But, the odds are low, and meaningless compared to the far greater overall dangers of motorcycling.

If you are that paranoid about getting hurt, maybe motorcycling's not for you.

Let everyone do their own thing. Motorcycling shuld not be about telling other people what to do. What he said times 2

[ital916]

I rode with ma davida jet to work today in the rain at a sedate 40-50km/h at 9am with no traffic. I enjoyed the sights and sounds and the rain doesnt hurt till bout 100 km/hr, even then I get over it.

It was nice and relaxing. I then rode home after work in ma davida, in the cool evening air, enjoying ma little pootle home. Im still here.

I rode the other day to the post box down the road in a open face with a leather jacket, track pants, boots and gloves. I forgot my high vis...does that make me a bad rider, I forget:scratch:

When I first started riding, I was scared into thinking all these things. Now after a little while, I still ride with all the gear...most of the time ( I take a little break from it when travelling 100metres down the road). I now concentrate more on not crashing, riding better and riding more responsibly than whether I have a chin piece on my helmet.

[popelli]

If you wear an open face (or 'shorty' as I do) you just make yourself aware of the increased risk and cope with it the best you can.:yes:

If you wear a full faced helemt you should also be aware of the increased risk that a full face helmet imposes, firstly usually less visibility so you are more at risk of having an accident

Secondly the increased weight of the helmet, this can cause two things, the first is the increased chance of a broken neck because of the additional weight in a whiplash type situation, the second is your brain is like an egg yoke supported with a thin layer of fluid around it to protect the brain against sudden knocks, brain damage can occur when the shock is sufficient that this layer of fluid is insufficent and the brain comes into contact wth the skull.

The increased weight of a full face helmet makes this more likely to happen

Given the choice between brain damage and broken necks or a broken jaw the best choice is to avoid having accidents in the first place, the better visibility that an open face allows gives you a greater chance of avoiding an accident in the first place

It always amazes me seeing zipperheads riding in summer in tee shirts shorts minimal footwar and a full face helmet, not only do they look stupid, they probably are stupid.

[ital916]

If you wear a full faced helemt you should also be aware of the increased risk that a full face helmet imposes, firstly usually less visibility so you are more at risk of having an accident

Secondly the increased weight of the helmet, this can cause two things, the first is the increased chance of a broken neck because of the additional weight in a whiplash type situation, the second is your brain is like an egg yoke supported with a thin layer of fluid around it to protect the brain against sudden knocks, brain damage can occur when the shock is sufficient that this layer of fluid is insufficent and the brain comes into contact wth the skull.

The increased weight of a full face helmet makes this more likely to happen

Given the choice between brain damage and broken necks or a broken jaw the best choice is to avoid having accidents in the first place, the better visibility that an open face allows gives you a greater chance of avoiding an accident in the first place

It always amazes me seeing zipperheads riding in summer in tee shirts shorts minimal footwar and a full face helmet, not only do they look stupid, they probably are stupid.

Bah, a 400-500 gram difference aint going to made squat difference in a crash as to whether your neck breaks.

If you smack you head or get whiplashed then you could break your neck. Full faces have great visibility so do open face.

Lets be honest with ourselves. Some are more comfortable in open face than full, some vice versa. With modern helmets, the safety factor is up there. A little weight difference isnt going to make a huge difference. Mind you some helmets get into the 2.5 kg range to 3 kg range, where a difference is felt.

Bottom line, if you crash you could get fucked up. You might not. Its up to luck and your survival instincts.

Stop relying on a piece of gear to save you. Use the best piece of kit you have, your brain.

[Jonno.]

If you wear a full faced helemt you should also be aware of the increased risk that a full face helmet imposes, firstly usually less visibility so you are more at risk of having an accident

Secondly the increased weight of the helmet, this can cause two things, the first is the increased chance of a broken neck because of the additional weight in a whiplash type situation, the second is your brain is like an egg yoke supported with a thin layer of fluid around it to protect the brain against sudden knocks, brain damage can occur when the shock is sufficient that this layer of fluid is insufficent and the brain comes into contact wth the skull.

The increased weight of a full face helmet makes this more likely to happen

Given the choice between brain damage and broken necks or a broken jaw the best choice is to avoid having accidents in the first place, the better visibility that an open face allows gives you a greater chance of avoiding an accident in the first place

It always amazes me seeing zipperheads riding in summer in tee shirts shorts minimal footwar and a full face helmet, not only do they look stupid, they probably are stupid.

I hope you're joking.

[Elysium]

Just gotta love those open face helmets;)
http://www.sitnews.us/DaveKiffer/092905_parker.gif

[cc rider]

Likewise, I prefer to wear inapropriate gear and to ride appropriately. Each to his own....:whistle: ....he's right Pussy, that's not what he wrote :shifty:

[popelli]

I hope you're joking.


no joke only basic laws of physics

[ital916]

no joke only basic laws of physics

In this case I am tellin yall that a few hundred grams difference aint gonna make squat difference in a crasha s there are other forces acting upon your body with a greater magnitude that the forces exerted from the motion of the helmet.

Thats an engineers opinion, I can also go get a physicist for you.

I keep telling people to stop quoting "basic" physics as rudimentary equations cannot be used to define complex problems as they dont take into account eough factors, variables, and utilise wide assupmtions, which affect EVERYTHING.

In science and engineering it is all about what you ASSUME and how DETAILED your calculations are.

[davereid]

In this case I am tellin yall that a few hundred grams difference aint gonna make squat difference in a crasha s there are other forces acting upon your body with a greater magnitude that the forces exerted from the motion of the helmet.

There have been quite a few studies done to determine if helmets contribute to spinal injuries. This is because scientists are concerned about the potential for helmets to contribute to spinal injuries.

Its a difficult comparison.

Pretty clearly, your neck was designed to support your head, the designers never allowed for an extra 1-2kg of helmet.

Plus, its pretty tricky to use your head as a fulcrum, when your head is also the lever. But its really easy to use a helmet as a fulcrum.

Thirdly, you have an accident much earlier when you are wearing a helmet. That is to say, your helmet wil be in hard contact with the road when your head may have never even hit it at all !

Internatonal research has been able to find no credible evidence that helmets contribute to spinal injuries.

On the other hand, spinal wards are full of helmet wearing motorcyclists, when it was virtually unknown before the introduction of helmets.

Maybe they died of head injuries first !

[roogazza]

I've only skipped through the thread but I think Ixion is the only one to mention 'Jet' That is what they were called 'Jet Helmets'
Half face , never heard that before.
So it goes Pudding basin, Jet, Full face. I'm betting Ixion knows what Stadium mark 6's are ???? Gaz.

[Ixion]

Course I do. But I preferred Mark VIIIs.

I know what a genuine Pudding Basin is, too. had one in fact. And the headgear that was really popular back in the day, the war surplus leather flying helmet.

The Jet helmet (hellish hard to get nowadays:no:) was quite different to what is, I suspect, usually envisaged nowadays by the term "open face". It was much deeper at the back, so that it protected the back of the head, and sort of "looped" down over the ears and covered the jaw hinge points.

[The Pastor]

This peeved me so much that I dug out my old open face and went for a blat. Refreshingly different.

And I survived
you should be locked up young man!

[vifferman]

When I started riding, there were very few fullface helmets, and those that you could buy were either too expensive (Bell) or of dubious suitability for motorcycling (early Shoei helmets - actually designed for car racing, and a bit heavy for on a bike). So, most people wore open-faced helmets, and that was that. It was no big deal, but on the open road I had a clip-on visor to keep the bugs and rain off.
I've had a few crashes, and written off two bikes, and the only times my helmet has contacted the ground has been at near standstill speed. However, in one of those cases, even thugh it was only equivalent to falling sideways onto the road, and the helmet bore very little sign of the impact (it hit where the right-hand edge of the visor opening is), I had mild concussion for a few days: headaches, mood change, etc. Wonder how Shane Cameron feels at the moment...?

[vifferman]

There have been quite a few studies done to determine if helmets contribute to spinal injuries. This is because scientists are concerned about the potential for helmets to contribute to spinal injuries.
Here's summat anecdotal: I had one fall from my bike (car clipped the front wheel), and landed on my side. Helmet didn't hit the road, but the deceleration of head+helmet gave me minor whiplash.
If you're doing a lot of riding (particularly at open-road velocities or on windy days), you build up quite strong neck muscles. Still hurts when your neck has to contend with being whipped around by an extra 1.5kg strapped to it. That's why they're developing self-deploying inflatable neck braces. Blardy good idea in my opinion.

[ital916]

There have been quite a few studies done to determine if helmets contribute to spinal injuries. This is because scientists are concerned about the potential for helmets to contribute to spinal injuries.

Its a difficult comparison.

Pretty clearly, your neck was designed to support your head, the designers never allowed for an extra 1-2kg of helmet.

Plus, its pretty tricky to use your head as a fulcrum, when your head is also the lever. But its really easy to use a helmet as a fulcrum.

Thirdly, you have an accident much earlier when you are wearing a helmet. That is to say, your helmet wil be in hard contact with the road when your head may have never even hit it at all !

Internatonal research has been able to find no credible evidence that helmets contribute to spinal injuries.

On the other hand, spinal wards are full of helmet wearing motorcyclists, when it was virtually unknown before the introduction of helmets.

Maybe they died of head injuries first !

Yes when first face helmets were first introduced, due to design flaws they were dangerous (in some extents), but modern helmets are designed to minimise trauma to the spinal region. The thing with scientific data is many misinterpret what the scientists are trying to state.

Those lying in hospital with spinal injuries whilst wearing a full face helmet are probably lucky to be there and not dead due to a large does of luck and safety gear they were wearing.

Open face jet helmets and full face helmets nowadays provide excellent protection to the lower and base areas of the skull and upper areas of the neck. As for the helmet hitting the ground in crashes where the head might not, well that idea is just flawed.

1) In a crash where the forces acting up ones head are minimal enough that the head can be kept off the ground by the rider i.e. using neck muscles so on, the impacting of a helmet would be minimal and in most situations beneficial as the helmet absorbs a minor impact reducing stress upon the neck.

2) In a crash where it is forceful enough that the riders head is impacted into the ground, the absorption of the crash force by the helmet might be the only thing that has prevent major head injuries opposed to an un-helmeted head hitting the ground (and in this case you would not have been able to keep their head of the ground).

3) In a crash where the head is whipped hard enough that spinal injuries are caused; whether a full face or open face is used, those same spinal injuries are most likely to have been inflicted and the addition of a few hundred grams would not make a difference.

As for the design of the human body, well it varies hugely. We dont have heads all built to the same margins, some have heavier heads...much heavier heads. Are you saying that riders with heavier heads are at a greater risk with the addition of a helmet. Should we develop a scale where we measure heads to determine whether a person needs that extra 200 grams of weight or not....I dont think so.

The bottom line is...if you hit the ground hard enough to smack your head into the ground there is little chance that you could have stopped it. If you crash light enough to keep your head off the ground then the impact of the helmet would do squat.

Like I said, dont blame the few extra hundred grams of a helmet for greater spinal injuries for someone who has crashed and smacked their head into the ground at 30 km/h....they would have been fucked either way, it really comes down to luck and the factors of the crash.

So I say AGAIN. Lets be honest with ourselves. Some prefer Open face helmets....some full face. Let them ride with WHAT THEY WANT.....lets shout it out together people....

[jafar]

if u think half face is crazy, wait till you try no lid!

Been there , done that. I was in the states last year and rode more than once sans helmet. :Oops:
Most states don't have a compulsory helmet law & riders with nothing more than a bandana covering their heads was common. A lot rode with no head protection whatsoever or with just sunglasses to keep the sun (& bugs) out. :whocares:

[Ixion]

The spinal injury / full face issue isn't just about weight.

It's more the question of what happens if the jaw part is pushed backwards.

The leverage obtained by pushing the lower edge of the jaw guard is quite great. And the fulcrum of the push will be the back of the neck.

If you are ever involved in a serious rumble with someone wearing a full face helmet, just get your palm under the lower edge of the jaw guard and push hard and fast up and back. You'll probably kill him though, so best reserved for real serious stuff.

[roogazza]

Course I do. But I preferred Mark VIIIs.

I know what a genuine Pudding Basin is, too. had one in fact. And the headgear that was really popular back in the day, the war surplus leather flying helmet.

The Jet helmet (hellish hard to get nowadays:no:) was quite different to what is, I suspect, usually envisaged nowadays by the term "open face". It was much deeper at the back, so that it protected the back of the head, and sort of "looped" down over the ears and covered the jaw hinge points.

Ha, I figured you were around my vintage ? Gaz.

[Ixion]

That would be the "doddery old geezer" vintage?

[roogazza]

When I started riding, there were very few fullface helmets, and those that you could buy were either too expensive (Bell) or of dubious suitability for motorcycling (early Shoei helmets - actually designed for car racing, and a bit heavy for on a bike). So, most people wore open-faced helmets, and that was that. It was no big deal, but on the open road I had a clip-on visor to keep the bugs and rain off.
I've had a few crashes, and written off two bikes, and the only times my helmet has contacted the ground has been at near standstill speed. However, in one of those cases, even thugh it was only equivalent to falling sideways onto the road, and the helmet bore very little sign of the impact (it hit where the right-hand edge of the visor opening is), I had mild concussion for a few days: headaches, mood change, etc. Wonder how Shane Cameron feels at the moment...?

I can remember jumping up real quick from a few crashes just to check my Bell hadn't touched the deck !!!!!!!
Living Sydney 69-70 I used to bring back early Shoei helmets, at the time cheap copies of Bell for about 20 dollars to pay for the trip. How times change ? Bell were hard to get and expensive. G.

[Forest]

Anybody here remember the Grand Challenge last year?

I seem to recall there was a bloke who binned his Triumph near the start. He was wearing an open face helmet and ended up with a smashed jaw.

[Gizzit]

Yep, all good til you come off. I came off the bike at 100ks recently. Faceplanted and slid 100metres down the road on my front. I reckon if i hadn't been wearing a full face with visor my whole face would have been ground off on the road.
I used to wear an open face years ago and i agree they do feel better but no way you'll ever catch me wearing one now.

I hope you're ok Rosie ??

And yeah, I totally agree. I wouldn't consider wearing anything, other than a full face helmet now.

In my teenage years, all I used was a white open face Bell helmet, usually with a visor when I was on the road, ..... and I usually wore goggles when dirt riding. I never managed to land a face plant, ..... definitely through good luck, rather than good management !! :D

As an RN ... like me you've probably seen the results of "facial damage" from bike accidents when riders have been wearing open helmets. Argh ...... !!!!! :shit: :sick:

[martybabe]

I agree, for cruising there's nothing better but the thought of face planting puts the willies up me. Maybe this kind of thing is the answer eh.

[caseye]

Propaganda or not, it's a full facial for this rider.
Anything less is practically asking to have your face rubbed off.
I use a flip and yes in town while cruising and looking for an addy or a place it's great to be able to flick the front up out of the way, but seriously once the open road is hit it's down and locked , no question.

[Motu]

'Jet' That is what they were called 'Jet Helmets'
Half face , never heard that before.
So it goes Pudding basin, Jet, Full face.

Open face helmets used to be called ''full coverage'',as opposed to the not so full coverage of the pudding basin.



The leverage obtained by pushing the lower edge of the jaw guard is quite great. And the fulcrum of the push will be the back of the neck.

At one stage in the US MX helmets were required to have shear pins on the chin guard for this reason - the leverage pops the spinal cord out of it's coaxial socket.

[Jonno.]

no joke only basic laws of physics

This is why they use full face helmets for racing no?

[popelli]

In this case I am tellin yall that a few hundred grams difference aint gonna make squat difference in a crasha s there are other forces acting upon your body with a greater magnitude that the forces exerted from the motion of the helmet.

Thats an engineers opinion, I can also go get a physicist for you.

I keep telling people to stop quoting "basic" physics as rudimentary equations cannot be used to define complex problems as they dont take into account eough factors, variables, and utilise wide assupmtions, which affect EVERYTHING.

In science and engineering it is all about what you ASSUME and how DETAILED your calculations are.

Maybe they could explain explain why the death rate per 100,000 motorcylcists actually decreases in the USA when they repeal helmet laws?

[ital916]

Maybe they could explain explain why the death rate per 100,000 motorcylcists actually decreases in the USA when they repeal helmet laws?

ASSUMING what you say is true, as nobody on here seems to attach said data or reference where they are getting fact from, there could be many factors.

A gander would be when motorcyclists ride without helmets they ride MUCH more carefully. I dunno, there could be a multitude of reasons.

Im sticking with the fact that even if a helmet does affect your neck (which it very well might...logically), if the impact if hard enough to whip your head back hard enough to damage your spine, there is a high probability you were going to get fucked anyway.

Ride safer...and as ixion puts it...DONT CRASH.

[Ixion]

This is why they use full face helmets for racing no?


For those of us who do not use the road as a race track, that's fairly irrelevant. You might as well argue that race car drivers wear full face helmets.


Maybe they could explain explain why the death rate per 100,000 motorcylcists actually decreases in the USA when they repeal helmet laws?

Perhaps because, the injuries you are likely to suffer with an open face as opposed to a full face (smashed jaw, smashed teeth etc) are probably not usually fatal. Whereas the extra dangers of the full face (snapped neck if the jaw bit catches on something) will almost always be so.

But the smashed jaws that don't happen are more numerous than the broken necks that do.

So , trading off a few extra fatalities against a significantly greater number of non smashed jaws and teeths and so on?

The issue is not whether one style is X% safer than the other.

F'Heavens sake we're already talking about someone riding a motorcycle.

If fine graduations of safety are that important to you, you've wandered into the wrong transportation choice.

It's about accepting other riders right to ride their own ride, and not bagging their choices

(and please, don't trot out that dreary old canard about "I pays your ACC etc". Or I may start pointing out that I'm paying a shit load of extra ACC because of all the sprots bike riders that regard the road as a race track. So sprots bikes should be banned, right? )

[ital916]

For those of us who do not use the road as a race track, that's fairly irrelevant. You might as well argue that race car drivers wear full face helmets.



Perhaps because, the injuries you are likely to suffer with an open face as opposed to a full face (smashed jaw, smashed teeth etc) are probably not usually fatal. Whereas the extra dangers of the full face (snapped neck if the jaw bit catches on something) will almost always be so.

But the smashed jaws that don't happen are more numerous than the broken necks that do.

So , trading off a few extra fatalities against a significantly greater number of non smashed jaws and teeths and so on?

The issue is not whether one style is X% safer than the other.

F'Heavens sake we're already talking about someone riding a motorcycle.

If fine graduations of safety are that important to you, you've wandered into the wrong transportation choice.

It's about accepting other riders right to ride their own ride, and not bagging their choices

(and please, don't trot out that dreary old canard about "I pays your ACC etc". Or I may start pointing out that I'm paying a shit load of extra ACC because of all the sprots bike riders that regard the road as a race track. So sprots bikes should be banned, right? )

Very rarely does ye old beast awaken from its gentle slumber.....ye all have stoked the fires of debate and have awakened the KRAKEN...wait, I got lost in another story there.

Oh I had a look through many a stockist at work les, I was unable to find any jet style helmets like the davida for a cheaper price but we do have these helmets now from rjays which you might like?

http://www.rjays.com.au/home/products/helmets-sturgis-plain.html#

They come with a peak

[rosie631]

I hope you're ok Rosie ??



Yeah, all good now. Thanks to ATGATT. Brain took a bit of a shake so few weeks of concussion. Back to normal now.

[carver]

We need Carver to do some videos of crashes with and without helmets,and open face compared to full face - I reckon he's up to the challenge....

i sure am, what do you think would be better?

[ital916]

i sure am, what do you think would be better?

Oooh I have a great idea....you guys can do a series of motorcycle mythbusters type movies.

First one....recreating the stunt from many movies where the hero/heroine purposely low sides a motorcycle in a target/under a target (like under a decepticons legs) whilst sliding along in a controlled manner firing a gun. CAN IT BE DONE! prove it!

Second movie - proving the stunts from TORQUE - like can two people have a fist fight on top of a sliding motorcycle

[carver]

Oooh I have a great idea....you guys can do a series of motorcycle mythbusters type movies.

First one....recreating the stunt from many movies where the hero/heroine purposely low sides a motorcycle in a target/under a target (like under a decepticons legs) whilst sliding along in a controlled manner firing a gun. CAN IT BE DONE! prove it!

Second movie - proving the stunts from TORQUE - like can two people have a fist fight on top of a sliding motorcycle

i have allready thought about that one

i was going to do the vanilla ice jump

[ital916]

i have allready thought about that one

i was going to do the vanilla ice jump

you need a horse and a hot chick to fully recreate it!

[carver]

you need a horse and a hot chick to fully recreate it!

sidewinder on a BMX will do!

[rosie631]

sidewinder on a BMX will do!

LMAO

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