Who stole the forkin drain screws?

[AllanB]

I may be showing my age now..........

Riding along yesterday thinking of all things bike I wondered just who stole the front fork drain screws?

For you young-uns, a few decades ago bikes had a screw on the bottom of each fork leg to allow you to pump out the old fork oil while the forks were still in the trees. A change of fork oil did not mean the removal of the forks from the bike.

It was a fairly quick and basic task. The worst part was removing the screws the first time - they were made of traditional Japanese cheese-metal and generally required an impact driver to remove, and tended to need replacing after removal! Motorcycle bolts and nuts have improved with time.

Back to the forks - why are they not there any more - am I missing something in the modern construction - is the the oil held in the cartridge and not fork leg?

Obviously I have not done mine since purchase, and the bike turned 2 yesterday so this task has been added to my mental list.

[AllanB]

24 views and no one knows? Or is it the silliest question of the day and I'm in need of a holiday?

[Pussy]

24 views and no one knows? Or is it the silliest question of the day and I'm in need of a holiday?

Not in the least!
Perhaps it's more of a case of suspension being a little more complicated/refined nowadays.
Fork oil level always seems to be expressed in a level, too... meaning the forks need to be vertical to measure it properly.
It's best to give the forks a "proper" service, anyway, when changing oil etc

[dangerous]

Not in the least!
Perhaps it's more of a case of suspension being a little more complicated/refined nowadays.
Fork oil level always seems to be expressed in a level, too... meaning the forks need to be vertical to measure it properly.
It's best to give the forks a "proper" service, anyway, when changing oil etc
and on top of that Allan... ya dont need to change the shit as often as ya did in them good old days. It will be fine for as long as you have the bike.

[AllanB]

and on top of that Allan... ya dont need to change the shit as often as ya did in them good old days. It will be fine for as long as you have the bike.

Serious?

Way back if you left it for more than a couple of years the shit that squirted out the bottom looked like kero!

One less job to do then :woohoo:

[dangerous]

Serious?

Way back if you left it for more than a couple of years the shit that squirted out the bottom looked like kero!

One less job to do then :woohoo:
well I have never replaced it unless the forks were comming out anyway, or if you want a different feel... but then again Im talking about my old dunger race bikes any new ish road bikes I have never changed.

[Pussy]

I'd be inclined to change the fork oil once every two years or so.
Even in top end cartridge forks, the oil gets shitty

[Skunk]

I'd change it every 10-20000 kms or 2 years.

[dangerous]

I'd change it every 10-20000 kms or 2 years.
under normal riding conditions on the road would you guys replace clutch and brake fluids aswell?
yes all and including the forks heat up and deterate they absorb water etc, but every 2 years with the technolagy of the fluids and machianl parts IMO theres no need to replace every 2yrs, Id have to look up and see what the manual says remembering manufacturs lean on the side of caution.
35,000k on my road bike and I havnt changed fork, brake, clutch fluids... but its proberly time I did. :shutup:

I used to run Ams oil in my 500 turbo it was good for 20,000km (at $100 a change) but I still did it every season, point is quality of oils and fluids is far superior than the days were forks had drain screws.

[Pixie]

I may be showing my age now..........

Riding along yesterday thinking of all things bike I wondered just who stole the front fork drain screws?

For you young-uns, a few decades ago bikes had a screw on the bottom of each fork leg to allow you to pump out the old fork oil while the forks were still in the trees. A change of fork oil did not mean the removal of the forks from the bike.

It was a fairly quick and basic task. The worst part was removing the screws the first time - they were made of traditional Japanese cheese-metal and generally required an impact driver to remove, and tended to need replacing after removal! Motorcycle bolts and nuts have improved with time.

Back to the forks - why are they not there any more - am I missing something in the modern construction - is the the oil held in the cartridge and not fork leg?

Obviously I have not done mine since purchase, and the bike turned 2 yesterday so this task has been added to my mental list.
You're partly right about the cartridges,which have to be pumped repeatedly to drain them.
Just removing a drain plug in the fork leg would risk leaving old oil in the cartridge if you didn't know to purge the cartridge.

It might be a liability thing too....no risk now of an idiot draining some oil and upsetting the handling,because he didn't know what the screw was for.

[Robert Taylor]

and on top of that Allan... ya dont need to change the shit as often as ya did in them good old days. It will be fine for as long as you have the bike.

You dont honestly believe what you have just said there do you?

In a typical motox bike the suspension does approximately 17000 compression cycles EVERY single lap.
The oil wears out quickly and just like engine oil it is there to provide lubrication.....And then theres moisture absorption etc etc

[F5 Dave]

Going back to cruddy old Damper rods yes they get a lot of crap getting sucked past the seals + the oil breaks down & the parts wear (esp aluminum) creating sludge, so a strip or at the very least a good flush out with kero is called for (so have to remove & invert forks anyway).

I always change the fork oil on new to me bikes because I know no one else has. It always helps. On modern cartridge forks it is way more important not to wear them out with debris, at a minimum the shims will get grit sticking in them so they are slightly open negating a lot of their effect.

Yes I do change brake fluid. it gets water pooling in the bottom of the system as it is heaviest so sinks to the bottom. That is where it will cause corrosion & slowly shag the seals. Some bikes hardly suck any water in, but some are bad at it.

Also if you go do a trackday you may find that your brakes go off in spectacular fashion (esp if the pads are wearing down a bit which transfers more heat boiling the water). I am informed it is rather unfunny reaching for a lever that comes back into the bar. Si's ZXR did that one day & he sheepishly admitted that he hadn't done any maintenance on the brakes since he got the bike. He was lucky how he landed with the back protector taking the brunt of the blow from the fence.

[AllanB]

You dont honestly believe what you have just said there do you?

In a typical motox bike the suspension does approximately 17000 compression cycles EVERY single lap.
The oil wears out quickly and just like engine oil it is there to provide lubrication.....And then theres moisture absorption etc etc

Hey it's KB, every written word is true surely?

I was hoping you'd appear - what's the recommended km for changing out front fork oil on a road bike? Mines 2 years old with 11 thou on the clock. Bike shop told me to wait until I need new seal, but this could be 10 years away ..............
Old School ones I'd do every 2 years or so as they were a piece of piss.

And who stole my drain bolts? :crybaby:

[Robert Taylor]

Hey it's KB, every written word is true surely?

I was hoping you'd appear - what's the recommended km for changing out front fork oil on a road bike? Mines 2 years old with 11 thou on the clock.

And who stole my drain bolts? :crybaby:

Yeah, it just amazes me what people will feel comfortable believing.
There is an argument to suggest that fork oil and shock oil should be changed the very first time the bike is serviced, not that too many would be willing to pay to do so! Id be recommending at least every 10,000 ks on a normal road bike, preferably every 5000ks for optimum performance.
Different brands of oils shouldnt be mixed either, many react and generate gummy and often hard to remove deposits.

[paturoa]

Back to the missing screws. No good reason that I'm aware of, probably a few cents here, a few cents there and soon you talking about a shit load of saved moola.

[dangerous]

You dont honestly believe what you have just said there do you?

In a typical motox bike the suspension does approximately 17000 compression cycles EVERY single lap.
The oil wears out quickly and just like engine oil it is there to provide lubrication.....And then theres moisture absorption etc etc
yes... but I also said something like 'in the average road bike doing average riding' I also said my race bikes (old shitters) get done regular...

ok then RT my 04 Guzzi has Ohlins all round (factory) its done 34,000 K mostly touring, how often should the oil been changed?


However I do stand corrected.

[Robert Taylor]

yes... but I also said something like 'in the average road bike doing average riding' I also said my race bikes (old shitters) get done regular...

ok then RT my 04 Guzzi has Ohlins all round (factory) its done 34,000 K mostly touring, how often should the oil been changed?


However I do stand corrected.

Cheers, and in all sincerity this subject is worthy of some further clarification because there are so many variables that affect damping oil life. Randomnly as follows;

1) Alloy bodied shocks that have no internal anodising will junk their oil EXTREMELY quickly as the oil reacts chemically with the alloy. There are still quite a few shocks like that and with an increasing amount of Chinese stuff on the market of very poor quality theres little hope that its going to get better.

2) If the shock absorber unit is of very small size and on a heavyweight bike that regularly gets ridden over rough roads the oil and damping may well be past its best by as little as 3 to 5 thousand kilometres.

3) Forks are not exempt. There are many classic forks built by various companies with no hard anodising and again the oil gets junked very quickly. And that also goes for some very expensive bikes such as the ''Big Dog'', the internals in these are little better than junk.

4) Part of what I was eluding to is that if an engine is to be run in then so is a suspension unit, most particularly applying to forks. The lower the cost of materials and tolerancing the more evidence there will be of run in debris when stripped.

5) If the settings are very stiff / aggressive the damping oil will run hotter and will be subject to more shear as it travels through very restrictive passages. If this is hand in hand with small damping oil capacity it will get junked very very quickly.

Racing and extreme operation ( such as MX in mud ) does require much more regular service and often that is expressed in hours eg 20 hours for MX forks.

If the suspension units are very high quality ( eg WP, Penske, Ohlins ) and are road going units only then Id have to say up to 20000 Ks for forks and 40000 Ks for shocks. We built a very heavy duty Ohlins shock for a retired US army colnel a few years back who was travelling around the globe. The last time he corresponded with me he had completed over 80000 miles on the shock. And he has been to some places with hellish roads, Vietnam, Peru, Aussie outback etc. But of course the damping oil and performance would have been long past its best by then.

As with anything its false economy to skimp on the price of damping oil, the more expensive oils are that for a reason, they work much better, have lower friction characteristics, are more stable with widely variant temperatures and last longer etc etc.

[dipshit]

under normal riding conditions on the road would you guys replace clutch and brake fluids aswell?

Hell yes! Every year. You would be surprised what a fresh flush of brake fluid can do for lever feel.




Bike shop told me to wait until I need new seal, but this could be 10 years away

This is why I don't like buying second-hand bikes. :(

[vifferman]

Different brands of oils shouldnt be mixed either, many react and generate gummy and often hard to remove deposits.
Out of interest, do you know how the oil in my forks looked the first time they came in? Come to that - how were the rest of the internals? Apart from the springs and fluid, they (presumably) hadn't been touched in ~8 years...

[Robert Taylor]

Out of interest, do you know how the oil in my forks looked the first time they came in? Come to that - how were the rest of the internals? Apart from the springs and fluid, they (presumably) hadn't been touched in ~8 years...

Thats scores of forks ago but as I recall the oil was quite dirty and you could smell it before you saw it.

[Robert Taylor]

Hey it's KB, every written word is true surely?

I was hoping you'd appear - what's the recommended km for changing out front fork oil on a road bike? Mines 2 years old with 11 thou on the clock. Bike shop told me to wait until I need new seal, but this could be 10 years away ..............
Old School ones I'd do every 2 years or so as they were a piece of piss.

And who stole my drain bolts? :crybaby:

Actually, with ''advice'' like that from a bike shop Id have to wonder about their mechanical abilities.

[dipshit]

Actually, with ''advice'' like that from a bike shop Id have to wonder about their mechanical abilities.

I wouldn't trust most bike shops down my way to even do something like changing the fork oil. I am utterly convinced that most of them couldn't give a fuck about doing the job properly.

Luckily there is *one* workshop down here I have enough confidence in.

[Robert Taylor]

I wouldn't trust most bike shops down my way to even do something like changing the fork oil. I am utterly convinced that most of them couldn't give a fuck about doing the job properly.

Luckily there is *one* workshop down here I have enough confidence in.

It does sound through several threads that you have had a pretty bad run. There are good people out there but sadly not so many. Part of the problem is there are very few highly experienced fully trained and qualified technicians in the trade. Part but not all of the reason is they are poorly paid because it is an industry with notoriously low margins and a dutch auction mentality.

[White trash]

The Peoples Hero, Johann Bruns used to change the fork oil on his GSXR after every race meeting. I shit you not.

Quite surprizing how dirty it gets after just three races actually.