Crossing the centre line?

[earl]

With regard to the tightening of the 'Keep Left" rules,What does crossing the centerline mean on a bike? Is it where the tires are or where your head is if leaned over.. Common sense dictates the safety answer but in court after they have ticketed you in a camera case?????

[Yeah_Right]

I would say where your tires are but hey, i am no lawyer!

[retro asian]

Isn't that the argument for legal lane-splitting? As long as your tires aren't over the centre line?

[YellowDog]

The rule has to state, "any part of the vehicle".

You, your pillion, and your riding gear constitute part of the vehicle.

[Yeah_Right]

So, i am riding half a meter from the center lane and my passenger points across to the other side of the road.

Their hand puts my vehicle into the oncoming lane and I can lawfully be said to have crossed the center line?

Puts a whole new meaning to "Keep your hands inside the ride at all times."

[Jantar]

The rule has to state, "any part of the vehicle".

You, your pillion, and your riding gear constitute part of the vehicle.

That is the rule. But it would be a hard one to prove other than tyres, even with photgraphic evidence as parallax etc can make it appear worse than actual, or even show a bike as being safe when most of the bike is way over.

[Patrick]

Post up the photo. Then we can discuss.......

[Zuki lover]

crossing the centerline what centerline:innocent::innocent:

[earl]

no photo-this was just hypothetical,a friend got pinged with a camera recently-he was well over on this occasion...

[MSTRS]

There's almost never an acceptable excuse/reason for crossing the centreline whilst cornering. It's simply lazy riding. I have no sympathy for anyone caught doing it.
In saying that, I do take issue with the camera stings though...they are never set up on corners where it is dangerous to cross.
Where there is clear road visible through the next 3 (say) corners, where's the harm, you might say? The harm is that it is habit-forming, and we all know that practising something wires it into the brain.

[jaykay]

The Police in the UK are taught to straighten out the bends when driving, but of course NZ is a world leader in road safety so does the opposite.

Can anyone post what offence has been committed by crossing a dashed centre line? ie what the legislation actually says.

Is overtaking legal in NZ?

[caseye]

With regard to the tightening of the 'Keep Left" rules,What does crossing the centerline mean on a bike? Is it where the tires are or where your head is if leaned over.. Common sense dictates the safety answer but in court after they have ticketed you in a camera case?????

More information required.
Because if "any part of bike or riders" crosses a solid yellow line on your side of the road then yes an offence has been committed.

If you are referring to an ordinary dashed white centre line, no yellows either side.
Then the obligation is as always to simply stay as close to the left hand side of the entire road as is practicable.
Simply crossing that line momentarily, for instance, in a twisty but visible stretch of road crossing the line to straighten out the road is certainly never was and should never be an offence.

[MSTRS]

Simply crossing that line momentarily, for instance, in a twisty but visible stretch of road crossing the line to straighten out the road is certainly never was and should never be an offence.

I think you will find that it always was an offence, it's just that it was largely ignored. Now it's a legitimate revenue source...

[Patrick]

I think you will find that it always was an offence, it's just that it was largely ignored. Now it's a legitimate revenue source...

I think you will find that due to the amount of headons, someone is on the wrong side of the road...

What is wrong with your side of the road? What is wrong with staying on your side?

Why would anyone want to straighten up a bend when on a bike???/ Twisties = Yahoo....:woohoo:

Lazy driving/riding is just that....

[MSTRS]

I think you will find that due to the amount of headons, someone is on the wrong side of the road...

What is wrong with your side of the road? What is wrong with staying on your side?

Why would anyone want to straighten up a bend when on a bike???/ Twisties = Yahoo....:woohoo:

Lazy driving/riding is just that....

I agree totally. See my first post...

[grusomhat]

Agree with the lazy riding. Any chance to go around a corner is fine with me.

[_STAIN_]

Why would anyone want to straighten up a bend when on a bike???/ Twisties = Yahoo....:woohoo:

Lazy driving/riding is just that....

it is about riding a smoothe line, looking thru the corner and auto pilot (experience) delivers you the most practical line for given conditions. how many technically difficult corners are there in this country due to purely the markings on the road.

[MSTRS]

it is about riding a smoothe line, looking thru the corner and auto pilot (experience) delivers you the most practical line for given conditions. how many technically difficult corners are there in this country due to purely the markings on the road.

Therein lies the problem. One day, that autopilot is gunna see you on the wrong side of the dotted line at a critical moment.
Practice late apexing...it's safer, and you get more for your money in corners. Leave the race lines for the track.

[Patrick]

Therein lies the problem. One day, that autopilot is gunna see you on the wrong side of the dotted line at a critical moment.
Practice late apexing...it's safer, and you get more for your money in corners. Leave the race lines for the track.

+ 1......

Practice apexing on your side of the road.... you have a whole lane to play in....

[george formby]

The "keep left" education here leaves me cold. On a bike, if you enter a left hand corner on the left of your lane you cannot see squat. If Mr & Mrs Myopia are parked up to grab a bag of Puha, you have no reaction time & have to take drastic action. If you approach the corner close to the white line you can see much further ahead & lean away from oncoming traffic as you take the corner. Solid yellows? Well the rules are the rules. Plenty of places around here were I can overtake on double yellows with 100m of clear road before & after the manouevre. I just always think what is the next car to come into view, doe's it have lights on the roof?

[MSTRS]

The "keep left" education here leaves me cold. On a bike, if you enter a left hand corner on the left of your lane you cannot see squat. If Mr & Mrs Myopia are parked up to grab a bag of Puha, you have no reaction time & have to take drastic action. If you approach the corner close to the white line you can see much further ahead & lean away from oncoming traffic as you take the corner.

Move to right side of your lane when setting up for a lefthander. And vice versa. Stay wide (late apex) until you can see the exit. You also avoid the 'slingshot' effect if you misread and apex early, especially if the corner tightens.

[Skyryder]

I'm just not too sure how you can get your body over the centre line but not the tyres. I suppose that if you rode with in centre metres of the line some part would be over but in all fairness I doubt if some cop would book you for that: quota's or not.


Skyryder

[MSTRS]

I'm struggling a bit with that assertion....
Of course, one supposes that one is actually moving fast enough to require some lean to negotiate a corner.

[BMWST?]

There's almost never an acceptable excuse/reason for crossing the centreline whilst cornering. It's simply lazy riding. I have no sympathy for anyone caught doing it.
In saying that, I do take issue with the camera stings though...they are never set up on corners where it is dangerous to cross.
Where there is clear road visible through the next 3 (say) corners, where's the harm, you might say? The harm is that it is habit-forming, and we all know that practising something wires it into the brain.

I straight line corners all the time bike and car.Esp in the wet,on the bike.I apply the same rules as overtaking.

[_STAIN_]

Therein lies the problem. One day, that autopilot is gunna see you on the wrong side of the dotted line at a critical moment.
Practice late apexing...it's safer, and you get more for your money in corners. Leave the race lines for the track.

Doh ! how long have you guys been riding ? you can't set a smoothe line if you can't see the exit of the corner !
Where do you get this late apexing thing, not from what I wrote.
In fact I apex generally much earlier than most, guess you would call that a defensive race line.

Too many learner riders are like car drivers and try to ride a set distance from the left boarder line.
This is all very well until they encounter a few decreasing radius corners and haven't learned to look at the corner as a complex curve.
Where a different smoother line can be ridden when there is good visibility.
(and just for you two who don't understand the concept. "without crossing the centre line")

There are at time when it is a lot more practical to clip a corner with good visibility than unsettling the bike pulling a tighter line or braking hard.

[MSTRS]

I straight line corners all the time bike and car.Esp in the wet,on the bike.I apply the same rules as overtaking.
Then one day you are going to get caught. Either an unexpected/unseen vehicle...or a photo...
Don't get me wrong...I know why people do it. I used to, as well. Well...wheels not actually over the line, but head plus - certainly. I never got a wakeup call, but I started to think about what might happen (we all have the odd moment of inattention - don't kid yourself) and that is all it would take.

Doh ! how long have you guys been riding ? you can't set a smoothe line if you can't see the exit of the corner !
Where do you get this late apexing thing, not from what I wrote.
In fact I apex generally much earlier than most, guess you would call that a defensive race line.

Too many learner riders are like car drivers and try to ride a set distance from the left boarder line.
This is all very well until they encounter a few decreasing radius corners and haven't learned to look at the corner as a complex curve.
Where a different smoother line can be ridden when there is good visibility.
(and just for you two who don't understand the concept. "without crossing the centre line")

There are at time when it is a lot more practical to clip a corner with good visibility than unsettling the bike pulling a tighter line or braking hard.

Um, 36 years...I think I'm beyond the learner stage!! But I'm still learning.
I read your first post to mean what BMWST said. Apologies if I got that wrong. But nowhere did I say that one should remain a set distance from the left etc. No, I recommend moving within the lane as part of good ride 'management'. But I also recommend staying wide deeper into a corner (late apexing). I'm not sure how you apex early, but still recognise, and not get caught by, a decreasing radius corner? That leads to the slingshot effect I mentioned earlier.

[jaykay]

I don't have a problem with anyone who insists on never crossing a dashed centre on cornering, what I do have an issue with is the Police prosecuting anyone they catch doing it - and particularly where the rider/driver is not stopped at the time (ie where they have no identity evidence).

Does anyone know what specific law is being broken? Has anyone had an infringement notice for this?

[MSTRS]

I don't have a problem with anyone who insists on never crossing a dashed centre on cornering, what I do have an issue with is the Police prosecuting anyone they catch doing it - and particularly where the rider/driver is not stopped at the time (ie where they have no identity evidence).

Does anyone know what specific law is being broken? Has anyone had an infringement notice for this?

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/keeping-left.html
The offence is Failing to keep left.
And when snapped via camera sting, what's the difference between that and speed cameras? The vehicle is identified, and it's up to the registered owner to accept responsibility or ID the driver at the time.

[george formby]

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/keeping-left.html
The offence is Failing to keep left.
And when snapped via camera sting, what's the difference between that and speed cameras? The vehicle is identified, and it's up to the registered owner to accept responsibility or ID the driver at the time.

I guess LTNZ should read this thread & clearly state that keep left means keep in your left lane & use that space to maximise your visibilty & reaction distance. It's good to read post's from riders who know how to travel quickly & safely using a bikes narrowness to their advantage.:2thumbsup I don't see too many on the road unfortunately.:(. Maybe I need to get out more.

[jaykay]

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/keeping-left.html
The offence is Failing to keep left.
And when snapped via camera sting, what's the difference between that and speed cameras? The vehicle is identified, and it's up to the registered owner to accept responsibility or ID the driver at the time.

The land transport link isn't the law. Even I wasn't aware until recently that there is no law in the UK about driving on the left (and I lived there for forty years), so I was wondering if there is such a law in NZ, and is so how it's worded.

There is no difference between a speed camera and a line crossing camera, neither do anything positive for road safety.

[Patrick]

The land transport link isn't the law. Even I wasn't aware until recently that there is no law in the UK about driving on the left (and I lived there for forty years), so I was wondering if there is such a law in NZ, and is so how it's worded.

There is no difference between a speed camera and a line crossing camera, neither do anything positive for road safety.

It will be a traffic regulation, encompassed by the Land Transport Act.

[Ixion]

Road User Rule 2004 . Made under LOand Transport Act 1998



2.1 Keeping left

(1) A driver, when driving, must at all times drive as near as practicable to the left side of the roadway unless this rule otherwise provides.
..
(3) A driver may drive in the right lane in the direction of travel when driving on a multi-lane road if—
(a) the driver is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving the prescribed signal of that driver's intention to turn right; or
(b) the driver is passing; or
(c) the left lane is unavailable to the driver; or
(d) the driver is required by any provision of this rule to drive in the right lane; or
(e) a variable lane control downward-facing arrow sign indicates that the driver must drive in the right lane; or
(f) the driver is avoiding an obstruction; or
(g) the traffic in all other lanes is congested; or
(h) the traffic in every lane is congested.

2.3
Use of lanes
(1) A driver, when driving, must not use—

(b) on a two-way roadway marked in 2 or more lanes, a lane on the right side of the centre line unless the driver is passing another vehicle travelling in the same direction; or

(d) a lane to the driver's right of a no-passing line; or


(2) A driver, when driving on a road marked in lanes,—

(a) must drive as far as practicable entirely within a lane except when complying with subclause 2.1(2) or when changing lanes; and



Pretty much covers it. Offence is failure to keep left.

[90s]

The "keep left" education here leaves me cold. On a bike, if you enter a left hand corner on the left of your lane you cannot see squat. If Mr & Mrs Myopia are parked up to grab a bag of Puha, you have no reaction time & have to take drastic action. If you approach the corner close to the white line you can see much further ahead & lean away from oncoming traffic as you take the corner. Solid yellows? Well the rules are the rules. Plenty of places around here were I can overtake on double yellows with 100m of clear road before & after the manouevre. I just always think what is the next car to come into view, doe's it have lights on the roof?

There is a difference between keeping to the left lane when there are two available lanes - as much of the law pertains to. Less clear is on a single carriageway that the implication is that vehicles keep to the left of the carriageway.

Now for us that is not sensible, because keeping to the left near the kerb exposes us to danger - we are less obvious to sideroads, can see sideroads less well (as well as pedestrians etc), have less time to move away from kerbside obstructions, practically invite cars to squeeze us off the road by lane-sharing or crazy overtaking etc. In the right tyre-tracl position we are out of the oily centre-line, within car drivers mirror-view and in front of the driver of following cars so in the maximum visible position. We can also see car drivers in their wing and centre mirrors (which helps predict their crazy behaviour). The right wheel track is the optimum placement for us in normal conditions. (we can of course move to the right tyre-track on tight rights bends etc etc)

The other day on the Gt North Rd though I had a police motorcycle behind me. I rode right tyre track and he was hard left to the kerb. I did wonder if he was goign to pull me. He certainly was in an unsafe position on the road. In fact a car pulling out from the BP was quite close to him.

Any thoughts? Anyone been cautioned for this?

[MSTRS]

Anyone been cautioned for this?

Not aware of it. In fact, any reputable (motorcycle) authority including ltsa (http://www.roadcodepractice.co.nz/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/about-riding/keeping-left.aspx) will recommend using the right wheel track in general terms.

[Patrick]

...The other day on the Gt North Rd though I had a police motorcycle behind me. I rode right tyre track and he was hard left to the kerb. I did wonder if he was goign to pull me. He certainly was in an unsafe position on the road. In fact a car pulling out from the BP was quite close to him.

Any thoughts? Anyone been cautioned for this?

He was probably falling into formation with ya.... :2thumbsup

Right tyre track = easier to be seen by blind cagers.... who probably still won't see you.... :argh:

[Sidewinder]

it helps to cross the centre line when passing a car ive found

[Patrick]

(1) A driver, when driving, must not use—

(b) on a two-way roadway marked in 2 or more lanes, a lane on the right side of the centre line unless the driver is passing another vehicle travelling in the same direction; or


it helps to cross the centre line when passing a car ive found

Ummm..... :shutup:

[Sidewinder]

Ummm..... :shutup:

yup sitting on the tank with both legs out while doing a wheelie, ya need that space

[peasea]

He was probably falling into formation with ya.... :2thumbsup

Right tyre track = easier to be seen by blind cagers.... who probably still won't see you.... :argh:

Well; we'd hope that he won't see you and you'll crash and die a horrible death.



Eh?

Mate.

Luv U.

[Patrick]

Well; we'd hope that he won't see you and you'll crash and die a horrible death.



Eh?

Mate.

Luv U.

You know you want me....

Don't forget to put your helmet back on once you've licked all the windows on your special needs bus. Keep taking the pills.... They might be starting to work.....

Then you can work on your homosexual tendencies.