Opinions on Subaru B4s? (yes a car)

[FlangMasterJ]

I know. Two to many wheels ;)

I'm finally upgrading (or is it?) from my battered and beaten '92 Corolla after many years of great service.

I'm really keen on a 1999 Subaru B4 Legacy. I love the styling but the majority of people I have asked seem to think I'm making a big mistake. I know it's not going to come close to the reliability of the old Corolka but are they really that bad?

The old man says to stick with a Toyota or a Nissan. He said he'll disown me if I choose otherwise.

Anyone owned a B4 or heard anything about them good or bad?


I'm still keeping my bike so go easy on me.:sweatdrop

[James Deuce]

It'll get nicked.

[FlangMasterJ]

Knowing my luck, you're probably right.

Anyone else think I'm making a mistake?

[EJK]

If you are talking about the Twin Turbo Legacy, all I know is they drink fuel ALOT. On the other hand, the Legacy probably is the best vehicle for most HP for bucks.
Few of my friends owns B4s and I don't hear them complaining too much about mechanical problems.

[flyingcr250]

Knowing my luck, you're probably right.

Anyone else think I'm making a mistake?

just keep up with the servicing side of things i.e. change the oil every 8k with an engine flush to keep the oil lines leading to the turbos clean otherwise you could lock a turbo up$$$$$$. because its a high compression, high stress motor always run atleast 95 octane fuel, also keep up with cambelt changes.:scooter:

[Jizah]

Knowing my luck, you're probably right.

Anyone else think I'm making a mistake?

It's not luck, they're just too easy to steal.

[Owl]

Get some insurance quotes and you may just follow your old man's advice.

[peasea]

Knowing my luck, you're probably right.

Anyone else think I'm making a mistake?

Yeah, me.

I did 30yrs in the motor trade and while I really don't like Jap cars I would have to say that Toyota has it nailed in the reliability stakes. I worked for Toyota for over five years and their company ethos was streets ahead of anyone else I've worked for, including Nissan.

The Legacy will eat your Corolla for breakfast but it'll keep you broke. My nephew works on them (and has has rally experience with the 555 team) and he knows them inside out. He drives a Commodore, what does that tell you?

A buddy recently traded a Legacy on a 3.8 V6 VT Commodore and his gas bill is smaller now. (He couldn't get better gas mileage than our VY V8 as it happens.) Boxer engines go well but they eat gas and you're sure to be buying something that has been thrashed, like Primeras and Mitsy Evo's. Neither of which would even come close to going on my shopping list.

Also, the comments here about Soobies going walkabout are not fiction. Just ask your local bobbies and/or insurance companies.

Advice from an old fart? Don't do it.

[sil3nt]

Only been in the back of one (and it was the Blitzen version) but they pretty damn quick. 0-100 in around 5 seconds and very comfortable sitting in the back!

But yeah it will get stolen.

[jono035]

My boss owns a forester and impreza (both newer than '99 and boxer engined ones). He has complained about the costs of running them both quite frequently. He also gets them both serviced by winger subaru even though he is plenty capable of doing everything himself... Doesn't exactly inspire confidence...

[Laava]

Very ordinary! But target for boy racer thieves. Stick with the Toyota, get a corolla RUNX Z. Very quick but looks like Nanas car

[MisterD]

I run an '06 Forester and I'd rather be beaten to death with a tyre-iron than swap it for a Toyota...

[Indiana_Jones]

I run an '06 Forester and I'd rather be beaten to death with a tyre-iron than swap it for a Toyota...

Each to their own.

If you want A to B get a Rolla.

If you want performence, be prepared to pay to maintain such performence.

-Indy

[White trash]

B4's a fucken nice vehicle to drive. Very comfortable with enough grunt to motivate ya and very composed handling. The only faults I'd be worried about are their insatiable thirst (my HSV gets better mileage), a fucken horrible clutch which doesn't take kindly to big launchs and expensive servicing for thing like belts and spark plugs.

Someone once said, if you can afford to own a late model Subaru, buy a V8. So I did.

[jono035]

Each to their own.

If you want A to B get a Rolla.

If you want performence, be prepared to pay to maintain such performence.

-Indy

Says the only person less qualified to comment on cars than my girlfriend... :Pokey:

[jono035]

Someone once said, if you can afford to own a late model Subaru, buy a V8. So I did.

I remember a hitch-hiker I once picked up complaining that most soobies are better at sounding like proper V8s than all the modern ones...

Edit: And somehow even then under-powered Subs like the 1.8 NA Imprezas are thirsty as hell... crazyness...

[Indiana_Jones]

Says the only person less qualified to comment on cars than my girlfriend... :Pokey:

Granted I know nothing or care about cars lol, but the principle can't be that wrong.

I bet a F1 car has slightly higher hours in the workshop then a 1.3L Rolla lol

-Indy

[jono035]

Granted I know nothing or care about cars lol, but the principle can't be that wrong.

I bet a F1 car has slightly higher hours in the workshop then a 1.3L Rolla lol

-Indy

Heh, your point was 100% valid and well made. That wasn't enough to stop me though :D

[MisterD]

Edit: And somehow even then under-powered Subs like the 1.8 NA Imprezas are thirsty as hell... crazyness...

My 2.5NA gets me Onehunga-Hamilton-Rotovegas-Tauranga-Bombay on a single tank (50litres) without driving like a complete nanna, which is a tad better than 10l/100k. Not bad for an auto 4x4...

[FlangMasterJ]

Okay the fuel side of things doesn't bother me since it only takes five minutes to get to work. If I did get one I guess my premiums would be through the roof since scum take a liking to them?

It's not looking good.

Thanks everyone.

Anyone want to buy a Corolla?

[steelestring]

Good cars, its just almost imposible to get one that has not been neglected by some gang-star hood rat. Excellent bang for buck if you get a good one and has sort of sevice history. Hungry as hell on gas around town but you can get some great k's out of them on the open road if you stay off the money suckers. Good warm up and warm down, dont get one with a full exhaust!!!!!!... note: cat back is ok but if its got a full system the small turbo is going to over spool and shart itself... clutches are expensive but nothing near the price of a shotty auto.. Make sure you take it for a propper drive when test driving it and make sure you turn it off and start it a few times.. sensors die (cam angle sensor, hotwire afm etc) and all they do is disconect the battery for a couple of minutes and reset it out of 'safe mode' before you buy it (private sales). Noisy lifters 100+ bucks each. Tire wear on them will show up more if its been bent.
Top grade oil, good fuel and they last.

[steelestring]

Okay the fuel side of things doesn't bother me since it only takes five minutes to get to work. If I did get one I guess my premiums would be through the roof since scum take a liking to them?

It's not looking good.

Thanks everyone.

Anyone want to buy a Corolla?

Fuel thing hahaha yea you will care but thats not why you choose a subie... hmmm let it warm up and warm down...

Whats the rolla? and how much?

[jono035]

My 2.5NA gets me Onehunga-Hamilton-Rotovegas-Tauranga-Bombay on a single tank (50litres) without driving like a complete nanna, which is a tad better than 10l/100k. Not bad for an auto 4x4...

That's pretty reasonable... My 2.4L VTEC accord wagon does about that on open road, 9.5-10km per litre...

My comment was about the smaller engined ones though. They have stuff all power so you need to be a bit more heavy handed with them to get enough movement out of them that you won't be honked at when moving away from green lights.

[FlangMasterJ]

Fuel thing hahaha yea you will care but thats not why you choose a subie... hmmm let it warm up and warm down...

Whats the rolla? and how much?

1992 Corolla XL sedan. Faded red with peeled off laminate effect. Riddled with dents compliments of a prick with a full bottle of wine (he ended up bloody with a dislocated shoulder).

Carpetless because of a leak which let's water enter behind the glovebox. The carpet was cultivating shrooms and mould. It is now 10kg lighter though.

In saying that if you want a car that will never quit on you and cost you next to nothing to run it's perfect.

[Brett]

If you go twin turbo, make sure it has never had a big bore exhaust fitted. The reduction in back pressure means that the smaller turbo over spools and burns out the bearing.

[steelestring]

1992 Corolla XL sedan. Faded red with peeled off laminate effect. Riddled with dents compliments of a prick with a full bottle of wine (he ended up bloody with a dislocated shoulder).

Carpetless because of a leak which let's water enter behind the glovebox. The carpet was cultivating shrooms and mould. It is now 10kg lighter though.

In saying that if you want a car that will never quit on you and cost you next to nothing to run it's perfect.

hehehe bloody and broken :bash:

my sis needs a runabout will give it a think dude
It might be a rough for her though hehehe

whats the motor and 1.3 nz new manual?

[steelestring]

Cat back is ok but anything more she will shart out the over spooling primary. Then just do a single conversion:rockon:

[MIXONE]

Buy a nissan stagea.2.5 litre single turbo.Better gas milage,faster and more reliable.Also because they look like a fat old family wagon they don't get stolen or stopped by Mr. Plod.

[steve_t]

I've got a twin turbo Legacy RSB and my brother has a B4 RSK. Both have been really reliable. Mine's just gone over 225,000km and the only things I've needed have been a new radiator end tank and reconditioning the starter motor. It's never been broken into but it does have a bright led flashing with the alarm.
They are quite thirsty but it's due to the drive train losses powering all 4 wheels. This, however, gives great control cruising up the Turoa and Whakapapa access roads.
I change my oil and filter every 6 months along with my WOF service but a genuine Subaru filter is $10 and 4 litres of magnatec is $40. Great for peace of mind. I have increased the boost and have had no issues with the turbos (touch wood). I always run 98RON so I guess there's increased cost there.
The only caveat is with the transition from primary turbo only to both turbos. There's a pretty big dip in the torque curve that you have to learn to drive around. I'd say you're best to take one for a test drive and you'll see what I mean. Saying this, all it means is that you either change gear just before 4000rpm or at 7000rpm, which suits me cos I'm mostly driving sedately, or wringing it out :rockon:
Let me know if there's anything specific u want to ask]
Cheers

[sinned]

Why have a high performance car? You get stuck in slow traffic, speed and you get a ticket and fuel is expensive. I had a Prado while I had a boat to tow and then made a mistake by buying a Ford XR6. Now I own a 98 Corolla (costs zip to maintain and run) and a Mazda SP2.3 (goes well but uses more fuel than Corolla).

My advice is to own a nana car and drive it like a nana. Ride the bike when you want the performance hit.

[Grasshopperus]

Anyone else think I'm making a mistake?

Yep.

You said before that your work is only 5 minutes away. Is spending thousands of dollars really a good idea for such a short travel time?

The B4 will be faster and look cooler but you're not going to arrive at work any sooner; both cars can do 60km/h on normal roads or 110km/h on the motorway and the B4 is not exempt from red lights so net gain is nothing.

Adding to that - you're not going to get much money from selling your current car despite the fact that it runs fine. Sounds like there's some cosmetic problems but they're just that, cosmetic.

It's soooo relaxing knowing that the car you just parked on the street is worth so little that a scratch or dent can't devalue it and that no one would want to steal it. How many done up cars do you really see parked on the street for extended periods of time? I have a few mates who have these types of cars and they just stress endlessly... as soon as they've parked their car they just can't relax until they're back inside their pride and joy and checked that it's safe.

Also, parts and labour are far more expensive for turbo cars, 4wd cars and subaru cars :) You'll almost be going into Porsche country pal. 4wd drivetrain parts are about twice as expensive as 2wd setups and about four times the price of old corolla parts. Not only that, but they cram so much shit under the bonnet that even a simple part like a radiator can take hours (of chargable time) to remove.

Dude, it's going to cost you hardout in the short-term (buying a new car), long-term (parts, servicing and gas) and intangibly (stress, fear, uncertainty)

Don't do it. Save the money for a house, rainy day etc.

[Insanity_rules]

My RS/RA was the best handling, fastest car I have ever owned. In saying that if you want that kind of performance it'll cost ya to run it. If your not counting on it to be like your toyota then your on to a winner. Get whatever one your looking at thoroughly checked over as most of them are abused and raped at some stage. Invest in a good alarm and go to one of the specialty insurers like club auto cause the normal companies will bend you over and extract your wallet through your pooper.

Service it regularly and be careful which gas you use, think low ethanol, high octane. Yes they drink gas and yes they are a thief target but you get a huge bang for your buck.

[ghost]

If you can find one get an H6, running one at the moment, not as uneconomical as most people think, almost the same kw as the turbo but smother delivery. Has cam chain instead of belt, and the best way to cut down on serivice costs is avoid Subaru dealers like the plauge.... and yes unfortunatly earlier that 03's go walking regularly. recently made the top 5 stolen list...

[BMWST?]

its your life,your money and your car.make me laugh ebry one say ing tch tc tch...yet we are all mcyclists who have been advised by lots of people 'dont ride a bike,yet we do and why??? cos we wanna.
I have a BMW535 and love it.It has cost ne a lot of money in rooutine servicing and maitenance.My sister is always telling me to sell it.She came for a drive with me the other day over the takas...She said"I didnt realise it was such a nice car to drive/ride in".
Do what YOU want,do your homwork,dont listen to naysayers who have never owned one and buy the absolute best one you can.Enjoy it,drive it with some care and respect(ie dont do fullpower launches,lots of traction and lots of power means something will give).My mate has one.He loves it but he says it does cost him the $$$$.Let the naysayers stick to their corollas and commodores

[no_8wire]

I have a 99 B4 and love it. Goes fast, handles extremely well (only time I have lost traction was when I was going far too fast for a very tight corner along scenic drive)
Not to bad on gas driving it normally (normal for me = giving it stick 60% of the time) about 10km/l
In contrast if you really put your foot down it will drink like anything i.e on a trip down to new plymouth got 7.5-8km/l (mind you I did get there in just under 4hrs)
Or when I was taking it easy on the way back got about 12-13km/l.

Only thing to watchout for is DONT PUT A POD/AFTERMARKET FILTER ON!
I had a previous owner put a oil based filter on and the oil coated the airtemp sensor resulting in a melted piston...

But they are comfortable, fast, handle well, nice to drive...

Good cars :woohoo:

[WRT]

I've got a GTB, I have a mate with a GTB, and 3 other mates with GTs (all twin turbo wagons). Only one is non-standard, and that's the one that is unreliable and has been nicked (and recovered). The four standard ones are all reliable and haven't been nicked. I've owned mine for four and a half years, and its now sitting on 240,000ks and still going strong. The only faults I've had:

Cracked radiator tank (~$100)
Blown alternator (~$400)
Dead battery (~$160)
Cracked power steering boot (~$30)
Blown light bulbs

I think most people will agree there is nothing out of the ordinary in the above list for any car that has done around a quarter of a million ks. I've got a whistly primary turbo; been that way the whole time I've owned it, still boosts hard so I ignore it. I do the filter and oil myself (takes about an hour and costs about $60-70), and I replaced the above faulty parts myself. The radiator does not take hours to do, drain the water, remove the pipes, 2 or 3 bolts and the whole thing slides out - takes less than an hour to remove and replace, and any home handyman could do it. The alternator is even easier; I replaced it with a used one for $40 but that failed after about 10,000ks so I brought a new one - no more probs.

Fuel milage:
Agressive driving round town will chew 14l/100k
Normal round town (I ain't no nana, but I'm not a boy racer either) is between 12 and 13l/100k.
Open road driving (sitting on ~110k, 3rd gear full throttle for overtaking) gets around 10l/100k.
I've got a spreadsheet of my milage over the last 25,000ks, the worst was 14.27l/100k round town on Caltex 95, the best was 8.76l/100k on BP Ultimate (open road, empty car). Never use 91 - from what I'm told it causes detonation and will destroy your big end bearings.

SteveT above mentioned the transition between the turbos - commonly known as the valley of death. At about 4,000rpm the change over from one turbo to two causes the primary to stall and the secondary still has to spin up so you get monumental loss of power for a second or two. In my experience, it happens as you are in 4th gear about level with the drivers door of the car you are over taking. REALLY noticible in the Gen2 model, in the Gen3 like the B4 it's not so bad. Worse is a tendancy for the car to stay in twin mode if you shift up after 4,000rpm - your revs drop so there isn't enough exhaust flow to spin the turbos and it takes a few seconds to change back to single mode. You'll feel it when pulling away from the lights, 1st pulls like a school boy, but if you shift after 4,000 then 2nd/3rd will feel like you are back in your Corolla. The exhaust sound changes, so you can actually hear it switch back again but until it does the car is very weak.

Still, the VoD is easy to drive around. Either keep your revs below it and use the fat of the first turbo to lug you around, or if you do go over 4,000 keep it there. Gives you two options for overtaking - stay in 5th and make your move with dignity, or drop it into 3rd and blow their doors off. Personally, I like option 2.

With regards the theft thing; it's a matter of numbers (I work for an insurance company FWIW). How many Subarus do you see out there? There are millions, and a lot of them have been modified, so they are naturally going to be highly represented in the stats. My advice; buy a standard one for two reasons, it is less likely to be nicked and it's also less likely to have been abused. And get an alarm if it doesn't have one already.

Bear in mind however that the Legacy is not a round town car, they are designed for out on the open road (where they shine). I use mine for towing bikes, fishing trips, snowboarding and as a general hack - and it is brilliant for that. I figure it is only worth around 2-3k now, and I can't imagine a better car that would do what I want for that sort of money. We've had four adults with a weekends worth of gear including 4 snowboards all inside the car (no roof rack and the back seats were all up). We did the trip to the mt in comfort and at pace (in fact, one of the passengers owns an Evo7 and even he was surprised at the pace we got up to overtaking a line of traffic).

But - dont buy a TT legacy to sit in traffic, they suck at that - the cold running in the legacy is rough and very thirsty. And don't buy one coming up on a cambelt change, that aint a cheap exercise. I did the belt, tensioners and waterpump at 200,000 (all precautionary measures) and the parts alone were around the $500 mark even at trade through a mate.

I am now starting to look around at a replacement for mine, and it will probably be another Subaru (05 STI Forester this time, or an 06 Legacy - need the boot space of a wagon but still want some poke). That's probably the best recommendation I can give about the brand.

[Morepower]

Subarus are one Jap car with character. The B4 is an awesome car , my last Subaru was a Legacy 2.5 Limited Manual wagon ( non turbo ) and I loved that car to drive. Currently I drive a company vehicle , Nissan 3.5 V6 maxima grandad car, its Fast , quiet , economical and as dull as dishwater , Toyotas are the same , reliable but oh so dull .
Like anything if its been serviced and you keep its serviced it should be reasonably reliable.
My 2c

[Rodney007]

blah blah blah... waste of cash dont do it!

[Forest]

The problem with the Legacy is that they're the car of choice for wanker drivers.

Seriously. I can't count the number of times I've seen a a driver in a Legacy acting like a tard on the highway.

[Batcerb]

Id keep the corrolla.

If its not costing you money, cheap to run then just keep it.

Spend the extra on your bikes ....

[McJim]

Get a Falcon.

[Jenny]

I've owned a legacy, had it about a month and all the electrics went poof!!! cost about $4000 was under warranty tho :) very comfortable to drive but a bit thirsty!

[ready4whatever]

I had a 1997 Wrx and found it good. I hear the B4 has a flat spot between when the first turbo kicks in and the second. According to wikipedia anyway. If i was going to get another Subaru I'd only go for an STI. Better yet I'd go for the Mitsi Evo, if you want a quick cage. More reliable too. bit more expensive

[MDR2]

I know. Two to many wheels ;)

I'm finally upgrading (or is it?) from my battered and beaten '92 Corolla after many years of great service.

I'm really keen on a 1999 Subaru B4 Legacy. I love the styling but the majority of people I have asked seem to think I'm making a big mistake. I know it's not going to come close to the reliability of the old Corolka but are they really that bad?

The old man says to stick with a Toyota or a Nissan. He said he'll disown me if I choose otherwise.

Anyone owned a B4 or heard anything about them good or bad?


I'm still keeping my bike so go easy on me.:sweatdrop

I've owned the old Twin turbo Legacy before now.... walk away

if you buy it you'll end up walking anyway, you'll be a couple grand poorer for it though.

Primary turbos pack it in pretty quickly, the auto transmissions are problematic (4wd solinoid are a known problem) and the engines are pretty weak.... so weak in fact i had a piston punch it's way out the block.

oil galleries are an issue if not maintained proper (same for any vehicle really) but in a horizontal engine you certainly don't need those worries.

You might be alright buying a brand new subaru (i still wouldn't) but I can state for a fact that if you're buying second (third or fourth might wanna check how many owners its had) hand you'll only be buying someone elses problems...


Summary: back away slowly from the car and when your safe distance away, run as fast as you can.

[steelestring]

I've owned the old Twin turbo Legacy before now.... walk away

if you buy it you'll end up walking anyway, you'll be a couple grand poorer for it though.

Primary turbos pack it in pretty quickly, the auto transmissions are problematic (4wd solinoid are a known problem) and the engines are pretty weak.... so weak in fact i had a piston punch it's way out the block.

oil galleries are an issue if not maintained proper (same for any vehicle really) but in a horizontal engine you certainly don't need those worries.

You might be alright buying a brand new subaru (i still wouldn't) but I can state for a fact that if you're buying second (third or fourth might wanna check how many owners its had) hand you'll only be buying someone elses problems...


Summary: back away slowly from the car and when your safe distance away, run as fast as you can.

hehehehe crack up! plus 1 for you:wari:

[steelestring]

buy an evo 3... sorted!!!!

[Ender EnZed]

Anyone want to buy a Corolla?

Maybe. How far has it been? Serviced ever/recently?

[SMOKEU]

B4s are not that great. My Pulsar shits over them in traffic light drags. If you want a fast sedan that is also economical when driven sedately then buy a version 5 JDM WRX, much quicker than the Legacys and more economical.

[FlangMasterJ]

Maybe. How far has it been? Serviced ever/recently?

Nearly 220K on the clock. I do my own oil and filter changes every 10000K. Their is some pretty bad rust on the passenger and driver door. Has new tyres and a recently replaced second hand radiator.

If that rust isn't taken care of soon it'll most likely fail an upcoming WOF.

There is a pic on my profile page.


B4s are not that great. My Pulsar shits over them in traffic light drags. If you want a fast sedan that is also economical when driven sedately then buy a version 5 JDM WRX, much quicker than the Legacys and more economical.

That's great.

[stig]

I've done a lot of work on them and I wouldn't recommend to anyone.

The TT engine is a compromised piece of junk. mine dropped a piston @ 140k
The outlet bend from the turbo are restricted to 1" before the IC, one reason it’s hard to get hp from them. but the main problem are the electronics, sensors pack up at will, especially the AFM, coil packs and knock sensor.
when any sensor is faulty the ecu reacts the same by overreacting and cutting all power, this makes diagnosis near impossible, winger Subaru spent 20hrs diagnosing mine once and gave it back without charging cos they couldn't work out the fault (was the knock sensor in the end)

I did some data logging on mine and one reason they suck gas is because the fuel maps are extremely rich. This points to lazy engineering to me.

The legacy shares same parts as wrx but weighs a lot more so:
The brakes are undersized, the diffs are under sized, the gearbox is undersized, etc etc. (imho)

I've had good experiences with Toyotas and while some are a little plain, they are very reliable.

[McWild]

I got my 1989 Suzuki Swift 1.3 to 103km/h.

Once.

This was on a closed private drag strip with ambulances and a fire truck on hand mind.

[Shadows]

Get a Falcon.

Too right.

Only complete wankers drive Subarus.

[Ender EnZed]

If that rust isn't taken care of soon it'll most likely fail an upcoming WOF.

I'm not a fan of rust work so thanks, but no thanks. Unless you want 50 cans of Double Brown for it.

[george formby]

Most of what I have read in this thread is true, but I have been lucky enough to drive a few sporty soobies courtesy of a distributor. Stunning handling & performance, loved them but cannot afford to run one. Be realistic about why you want it.

[Delerium]

speed costs money, how fast you want to go? evo's and wrxs will be faster, but they are a different car, more sports oriented while the legacy is more a gt car.

As for the only wankers drive them, pah, you could say that about anything.

Maintenance is more expensive as the engine bay is so cramped. Look after them and you dont have many issues though.

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/threads/000/009/175/116729-vtec.jpg">

<img src="http://sc.tri-bit.com/images/4/47/MJ7CGLFDRTO4MTEFQSJGJDYWAEE6EEIN.jpg">

<img src="http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m244/MazTech/V-tech.jpg">

<img src="http://www.cbseyemobile.com/files/cbs.troubby.21360.dd.jpg">

-Indy

[Her_C4]

As a previous owner of an RSK B4 (the one with full leather interior and white light dash, bilstein suspension etc) ... and obviously a complete wanker ^^ :cool::banana: I have to say this is *one* of the best japanese cars I have owned for performance (and I have owned quite a few cars).

I bought mine QUITE a few years before the term 'boi-racer' was fully coined, yet I would get pulled up often as it was lowered with mags and a big bore etc etc. It drove well, and was economical when my driving style was economical and bloody thirsty when my boots were made of concrete... (often!:dodge:). They are damned comfortable and when I first got it I drove from Wellie to ChCh and then up to Auckland in it over a week, and I just wanted to keep driving!

Servicing was pretty expensive as I wanted to ensure that I used genuine parts, but there are many others just as good on the market. I ensured that it was serviced regularly by a place in town here and generally they were pretty good and helpful.

After having it from nearly new (it was immaculate) 15,000ks on the clock - it was well looked after and there were no rust or leakage problems and it sounded divine (quite distinctive from others of the same model).

I was thinking about selling it when that decision was taken out of my hands ... it caught fire and blew up. The service man was out 'tuning the turbo' when it occured and apparently noticed some smoke coming from under the bonnet. By the time he pulled over it was time to call the fire engines.

I was very unhappy. :pinch::mad:

Since then I have heard of other B4 owners with the same outcome - so it may pay to look into that before you decide?

[Timmay]

I just bought a scoobie against advice from many who had turbo manuals which gave them endless trouble, me, I got an auto non turbo wagon, i'm going to get it regularly serviced by a a mechaic who likes Subarus (yes they exist) and in a few years time i'll let you know if it is as reliable as the toyota levin I am about to sell. I see it that all cars are about the same, some just get abused more than others and have reputations to suit.

[scumdog]

IF (and a big IF) it never needs a spanner on it you'll be ok (barring the thirst and theft likelihood) but hoo-boy, if it needs any work on the motor and you're not doing it yourself? - just watch them $$$$ fly out of your wall.:pinch::weep:

[McJim]

IF (and a big IF) it never needs a spanner on it you'll be ok (barring the thirst and theft likelihood) but hoo-boy, if it needs any work on the motor and you're not doing it yourself? - just watch them $$$$ fly out of your wall.:pinch::weep:

'swhy I said get a Falcon. Nice big simple engine. Jappas can't make anything that's simple to work on - all too much effort methinks ('swhy they cost so much to fix.)

[MDR2]

I just bought a scoobie against advice from many who had turbo manuals which gave them endless trouble, me, I got an auto non turbo wagon, i'm going to get it regularly serviced by a a mechaic who likes Subarus (yes they exist) and in a few years time i'll let you know if it is as reliable as the toyota levin I am about to sell. I see it that all cars are about the same, some just get abused more than others and have reputations to suit.

You might get lucky with it being non turb, stay on top of the services and keep the inside of that engine spotless.

You'll miss the 4AGE sooner or later ;)

[FlangMasterJ]

Thanks everyone for the info.

How fast a car goes has never been my top priority. I'm interested in the B4 because of the styling more than anything but from what I'm hearing it's not worth the trouble.

If I was to get a legacy or even a forester, a non-turbo would be the way to go?

[Delerium]

'swhy I said get a Falcon. Nice big simple engine. Jappas can't make anything that's simple to work on - all too much effort methinks ('swhy they cost so much to fix.)

my autech pulsar was VERY easy to work on. Its the ancillaries like turbos, intercoolers and the associated plumbing that make it more complex. but then its all about power to weight if you want to go fast.

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5393/danvtecma8ip1.jpg">

<img src="http://sc.tri-bit.com/images/d/d4/UX4PHN2NJG33CQALIRIUAEWEQDD2HB27.jpg">

<img src="http://rsxisfaster.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/speedingsignvtec.jpg">

<img src="http://rsxisfaster.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/scootervtec.jpg">

-Indy

[MDR2]

Thanks everyone for the info.

How fast a car goes has never been my top priority. I'm interested in the B4 because of the styling more than anything but from what I'm hearing it's not worth the trouble.

If I was to get a legacy or even a forester, a non-turbo would be the way to go?

Yeah, the styling was what sold me on the sub too, Staunch looking car imo. If your that dead set on the idea of a legacy then drop in on Clubsub.org and have a poke around the forums maybe ask for specifics on what to look out for (though this thread has summarised very quickly on what can go wrong with them)

as much as I hate to confuse matters, when the Sub was running properly it was the fucken sweetest thing on earth. I remember shooting into downtown Auck one chilly and clear morning (3am ish) and getting onto the penrose round about/on/offramp and giving it a boot full, feeling the front and rear fighting for dominance and then flicking it left to get on the onramp heading north as the second turbo was just spooling up off the clock by the time i hit the motorway... brief moment of insanity, the differince the cool air makes is alarming.

If you're not a fan of money.. get one. I had a bad experiance with them though and the negatives far out weighed the pros sadly.

I think it fair to say the turbos put a strain on things.

[FlangMasterJ]

Just an update.

I've just bought myself a 1999 Nissan Maxima 3.0 ST with 100K on the clock. It's nothing flash. It's got plenty of grunt to pull my bike and trailer and doesn't harbour fungus in the carpet like the old Rolla.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

[huff3r]

Gutted, too late for me to chip in. I have the earlier RS TT sedan and love it. Sure it cost me $1k for a cambelt. Sure the K&N panel filter destroyed the AFM (f**ken oiled filters!) so i put a cheapy foam, unoiled pod on it. Sure it has a massive VoD (Valley of Death) but its smaller with the pod. Sure it costs a bit to run, but less than my old 2L Ford Telstar. It is comfortable, has ABS, has Climate Control Aircon, and was considerably cheaper than anything else with these features. I have no issues spending 4hours in the drivers seat, whereas any other car ive driven ive wanted out after 30mins.

[peasea]

Gutted, too late for me to chip in. I have the earlier RS TT sedan and love it. Sure it cost me $1k for a cambelt. Sure the K&N panel filter destroyed the AFM (f**ken oiled filters!) so i put a cheapy foam, unoiled pod on it. Sure it has a massive VoD (Valley of Death) but its smaller with the pod. Sure it costs a bit to run, but less than my old 2L Ford Telstar. It is comfortable, has ABS, has Climate Control Aircon, and was considerably cheaper than anything else with these features. I have no issues spending 4hours in the drivers seat, whereas any other car ive driven ive wanted out after 30mins.

Blind curiosity; what volume of fuel does the tank hold and how many k's do you get from a tank? (Average driving....)

[steve_t]

My RSB - 64L tank. Normally fill up with about 48-49 litres and that normally lasts 400-450km depending on if I do any trips on the motorway or a lot of around town on boost. It's pretty economical relative to my work Holden ute, but obviously doesn't come close to a bike for fuel efficiency.

[MDR2]

Just an update.

I've just bought myself a 1999 Nissan Maxima 3.0 ST with 100K on the clock. It's nothing flash. It's got plenty of grunt to pull my bike and trailer and doesn't harbour fungus in the carpet like the old Rolla.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

My parents own 2 maxima's One st and one model before the st...

one word describes them

Solid

The older of the 2 has cracked the 300 k mark (and my parents tend to run cars into the ground and only fix whats broken) its never had a dime spent on it.

Same with the ST only thats a year old (in their ownership at least ) so time will tell.

I remember giving the older model a bit of a fang when they first got it, bucket loads of torque the ST feels a little slower and the fact it looks physically bigger might have a part to play in that.

Good choice though.

You'll have nissan reliabilty and you'll still get to pay what you would have in petrol if you had brought the sub :D, good comprimise

[huff3r]

Blind curiosity; what volume of fuel does the tank hold and how many k's do you get from a tank? (Average driving....)

I've never taken it below 40L and i get 380 - 400kms a tank

I have spreadsheets for all my cars L/100km from fill-ups, i always take the odo when i fill the tank and i always fill the tank.

[peasea]

I've never taken it below 40L and i get 380 - 400kms a tank

I have spreadsheets for all my cars L/100km from fill-ups, i always take the odo when i fill the tank and i always fill the tank.

Ok, so that's around 9.5-10km per litre say? Pretty thirtsy I reckon when our V8 does 580k's to 65 litres, or 8.9k/per l. That's an average, it can do better if we cruise everywhere.

Not bagging your car, mate, just making comparisons.

[Mikkel]

We bought a 1998 Subaru GT-B with around 70,000 km on the clock back september 2006. Manual transmission of course - the autos suck when paired with the twin-turbo setup as far as I can understand. Something to do with the transition from the smaller primary to the larger secondary turbo and the resulting valley of death in the torque curve... with a manual it's easy to drive around that.

Anyway, we've done in excess of 60,000 km now and have been very happy with it. Besides the normal servicing we've had two large expenditures: new cam-belts around 100,000 km (~$1200) and a new clutch (~$1600) - dunno how the previous owners drove it, but hard launches in a 4wd is just hard on clutches. We get a full service done every 10,000 km and change oil and filter every 5,000 km.

Of course it is very thirsty - it kinda goes with the "permanent four wheel drive, boxer engine and turbos"-territory. Not to forget that it is a fairly heavy car - about 1700 kg I believe. On long road trips - if my partner is driving - we do see up to 10 km/l. I once did a 250 km stint around town where I got 5 km/l on average (yes, I was having fun). But average around town is 7-8 km/l and 8-9 km/l on the open road.

Our aircondition is pretty shitty and it could really do with a cruise-control. The suspension is not the most quiet setup, but it bloody well works. One annoyance is that the front left brake on our car squeals a bit... other than that, it's been the perfect car for us.

Oh, and no one is going to go to the trouble of stealing an old scummy twin-turbo legacy if it has got a decent immobiliser installed. It's just not worth the effort when there's another one right over there which doesn't have one.

Enjoy your Nissan, they make bloody good cars as well. Unless you go places where the 4wd actually helps you (shingle roads, snow, gritty roads) there are better choices than the Subarus IMO. On the other hand, if you do go to such places you can't beat them - not as far as value goes anyway... sure an Audi RS4 would be better, but then again...

[peasea]

We bought a 1998 Subaru GT-B with around 70,000 km on the clock back september 2006. Manual transmission of course - the autos suck when paired with the twin-turbo setup as far as I can understand. Something to do with the transition from the smaller primary to the larger secondary turbo and the resulting valley of death in the torque curve... with a manual it's easy to drive around that.

Anyway, we've done in excess of 60,000 km now and have been very happy with it. Besides the normal servicing we've had two large expenditures: new cam-belts around 100,000 km (~$1200) and a new clutch (~$1600) - dunno how the previous owners drove it, but hard launches in a 4wd is just hard on clutches. We get a full service done every 10,000 km and change oil and filter every 5,000 km.

Of course it is very thirsty - it kinda goes with the "permanent four wheel drive, boxer engine and turbos"-territory. Not to forget that it is a fairly heavy car - about 1700 kg I believe. On long road trips - if my partner is driving - we do see up to 10 km/l. I once did a 250 km stint around town where I got 5 km/l on average (yes, I was having fun). But average around town is 7-8 km/l and 8-9 km/l on the open road.

Our aircondition is pretty shitty and it could really do with a cruise-control. The suspension is not the most quiet setup, but it bloody well works. One annoyance is that the front left brake on our car squeals a bit... other than that, it's been the perfect car for us.

Oh, and no one is going to go to the trouble of stealing an old scummy twin-turbo legacy if it has got a decent immobiliser installed. It's just not worth the effort when there's another one right over there which doesn't have one.

Enjoy your Nissan, they make bloody good cars as well. Unless you go places where the 4wd actually helps you (shingle roads, snow, gritty roads) there are better choices than the Subarus IMO. On the other hand, if you do go to such places you can't beat them - not as far as value goes anyway... sure an Audi RS4 would be better, but then again...

Sheeyite. Having to spend that on a clutch and cam belts would make me puke. 50,000kms in our V8 Berlina and only oil/filter changes and a set of tyres. We chose to put good shocks and springs in it but that's not because they were knackered, we just like to 'drive'.

Our V8 could probably match your 5km/l too, especially on the Takaka Hill. Good fun, eh?

[scumdog]

Just an update.

I've just bought myself a 1999 Nissan Maxima 3.0 ST with 100K on the clock. It's nothing flash. It's got plenty of grunt to pull my bike and trailer and doesn't harbour fungus in the carpet like the old Rolla.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Had one once as a work car, thirsty-as when hammered for a bit (like really REALLY thirsty.).:crazy:

[huff3r]

Ok, so that's around 9.5-10km per litre say? Pretty thirtsy I reckon when our V8 does 580k's to 65 litres, or 8.9k/per l. That's an average, it can do better if we cruise everywhere.

Not bagging your car, mate, just making comparisons.

But is your V8 any more powerful or torquey? Not bagging your car either, its just you cant look at a turbo'd subaru compared to other 2L cars... you have to think of it as a bigger engine, and for that it seems to do reasonably well.. The damned thing is super-heavy too, 4wd doesnt help with that...

[FROSTY]

holey cow so much information. -Subaru 4 cylinders are great cars.
at 80k budget for cam cover gaskets, cam end seals cam belt and 1 tensioner. Other than that do normal servicing INCLUDING transmission oil changes.

[peasea]

But is your V8 any more powerful or torquey? Not bagging your car either, its just you cant look at a turbo'd subaru compared to other 2L cars... you have to think of it as a bigger engine, and for that it seems to do reasonably well.. The damned thing is super-heavy too, 4wd doesnt help with that...

Quite right on all counts but many see V8's as gas-guzzlers when in fact they aren't any worse than a highly stressed four-banger.

I, like my missus, just prefer the effortless hill-climbing ability of the V8, always have. Then there's the aural bliss.

I have to add that after 30yrs in the motor trade and having dealt with many hi-perf engines both on the street and the track, I'll take the least-stressed unit for my own driver any day. Reason? They require less maintenance. The last thing a spanner-thrower wants to do on weekends is work on his own car. (Unless it's a hobby car/bike of course, that's different.)

[steve_t]

And it's great for getting up to the snow!!!! :rockon:

[peasea]

holey cow so much information. -Subaru 4 cylinders are great cars.
at 80k budget for cam cover gaskets, cam end seals cam belt and 1 tensioner. Other than that do normal servicing INCLUDING transmission oil changes.

That's pretty good advice for any car with a cam belt.

[huff3r]

That's pretty good advice for any car with a cam belt.

Yeah, its just the amount you have to budget in for a subaru lol.

Unfortunately, as the cambelt is about 6ft long (Quad Cam) its quite expensive!

No doubt V8s are similar though?

[peasea]

Yeah, its just the amount you have to budget in for a subaru lol.

Unfortunately, as the cambelt is about 6ft long (Quad Cam) its quite expensive!

No doubt V8s are similar though?

Chain drive buddy, they got pushrods too! Gotta love that good old, reliable technology.

[Mikkel]

Sheeyite. Having to spend that on a clutch and cam belts would make me puke. 50,000kms in our V8 Berlina and only oil/filter changes and a set of tyres. We chose to put good shocks and springs in it but that's not because they were knackered, we just like to 'drive'.

Our V8 could probably match your 5km/l too, especially on the Takaka Hill. Good fun, eh?

Don't get me started on tyres - gone through 3 or 4 sets by now :whistle:

With the B-spec GT legacy you don't have to put in good shocks and springs. If Bilstein is good enough for Porsche it'll be acceptable for my everyday drive ;)

I've only ever managed those 5 km/l once, and that was around town. But yes, Takaka hill is awesome both in the car and on the motorcycle. The real advantage of the bike is that I can't take passengers...


And it's great for getting up to the snow!!!! :rockon:

Yep, that - and for quickly getting to that trail head 50 km down obscure gravel roads. Peace of mind when driving in very wet weather or on gritty winter roads is pretty good too.

The number of times I've driven up to Mt. Hutt... never have I had a need to put on chains - and that's on Goodyear Eagle F1s.


Unfortunately, as the cambelt is about 6ft long (Quad Cam) its quite expensive!

I really don't think the expense has that much to do with the actual price on the part. But getting to the cam-belt on a flat-four takes quite a bit of time...

[scumdog]

Chain drive buddy, they got pushrods too! Gotta love that good old, reliable technology.

+1

Never HAD to put in a new timing chain, only do it when putting in a hotter cam, rebuilding a motor etc.

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://forums.trinituner.com/upload/vtec_yo.jpg">

<img src="http://knowyourmeme.com/i/2205/original/vtec3.jpg">

<img src="http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/9/9f/Vtec101.jpg">

-Indy

[EJK]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/timmyab1/Vtec_just_kicked_in_yo_asia.jpg

http://sc.tri-bit.com/images/1/1c/YWMGUIDT24GR5QDGM563QJ2EGJITWI36.jpeg

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9725/goliathrollercoaster.jpg

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/5a/VTECwarp.jpg">

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/d/d7/MysticaOrientForYer.jpg">

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/8/85/Vtec_germans.jpg">

<img src="http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/4/49/Animu_Car.jpg">

-Indy

[EJK]

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8575/gforceface727357.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8224/yanetseyoumgebremedhin2.jpg

<img width=40% src"http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6025/flame27.jpg"></img>

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/f6/Vtec_crash.jpg">

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/24/ObamaVTEC.JPG">

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Qy4iftwk5JM/R2lqNZZh_1I/AAAAAAAACUM/jrYk0QBCXnU/s400/car_photo_18874_7.jpg">

REPRESENT BO!

-Indy

[EJK]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xztU8V0wfkc&hl=ko&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xztU8V0wfkc&hl=ko&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[FROSTY]

That's pretty good advice for any car with a cam belt.
Not in the mood for an arguement but the advice is spcific to cars with a boxer engine due to the proximity of the exhaust to the rocker covers.
other cars its not as critical and 100k for cambelts

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/fastcat-vtec-lolcat-demotivational-poster.jpg">

<img src="http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/7/78/Vtec-honda.jpg">

<img src="http://memegenerator.net/Thumbnails/179/208x228_Success-Kid-VTEC-just-kicked-in-yo6.jpg">

<img src="http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/8/20/128953084651689350.jpg">

-Indy

[SMOKEU]

If Bilstein is good enough for Porsche it'll be acceptable for my everyday drive ;)


Porsche did use Kombi engines in their 924, so what does that say?

[ready4whatever]

I've decided my next car will probably be an evo 4 or 5. 6 if im lucky.
my first car was a 1997 wrx. all the go fast bits. as soon as i turned 18 i went to the bank and borrowed 10 grand. really miss that car, it turns out toyota surfs can stop real quick...:( (and the back of them are real hard)

[FlangMasterJ]

Fuck! You guys weren't lieing when you said the Maxima's were thirsty. I've had it a week and already have started driving the Corolla to and from work again.

WTF was I thinking?

PS Anyone want to buy a mint as Maxima?:pinch:

[ready4whatever]

what year is your maxima. we have one at work. its a real nice car. quite fast too

[steve_t]

3 litre V6 vs your Corolla? Is it nearly 2x thirsty?

[Dean]

Subaru driver

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7x6SO-6HaXI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7x6SO-6HaXI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[FlangMasterJ]

what year is your maxima. we have one at work. its a real nice car. quite fast too

1999.


3 litre V6 vs your Corolla? Is it nearly 2x thirsty?

More than double. Easily.

That's driving conservatively too.

I thrash the Rolla and it makes barely a dent in the gauge.