Is wearing a flouro vest and displaying an L plate asking for it?

[Maki]

I wonder, do car drivers see flouro vests and L plates as some kind of challenge? Do they go out of their way to scare/harass riders with these items? If you think so, then why do you think that is?

Please share your views and experiences, especially if you feel that other road users treat you differently if you are wearing a flouro vest and displaying an L plate...

[centaurus]

I believe displaying an L plate does paint a bull's eye target on your back. I've had first hand experience on this quite a few times and wondered why.

Personally I believe it's the same reason people in AA driver training cars get bullied - the other drivers automatically assume that being a beginer you will be slow and hold them back, so they try to get past you at any cost. Obviously this kinda fixation creates all those close calls and stupid/dangerous/aggressive overtaking/passing/cutting in front techniques that most of us have seen while on L plates.

And if you happen to have long hair like I do, they automatically assume you're a girl and get even more aggressive in trying to get past you.

The only solution to this problem that I have found was not to wear the L plate and when I needed to wear the L plate, assume territorial/aggressive body language while riding to deter others from bullying me, like using all the lane, making sure I was blocking the way forward for the vehicles following me so they won't think about overtaking me in the same lane, etc... Stuff that is not reckless or dangerous in any way, most of the times is even recommended for safety reasons and it tells everybody in traffic that you are there to stay and won't let anybody bully you. It the same principle with not showing fear towards a barking dog.

[Markw336]

i have that problem on my scooter without L plates people think that bikes/scooters are slow but most of them are faster than the car itself and no doubt when i get a bike i will have the same prob

in some cases people think cause there bigger there cocky and invinicible but there not.

[Ender EnZed]

I spent 6 months (and about 8000km) with a fluro vest and an L plate. Not once did I experience any behaviour from car drivers that could reasonably be interpreted as malicious. I realise that statistically the relevance of one persons experience can be rounded to zero and I'm sure others will have different stories to tell.....

BUT, I'm also fairly sure that the majority of the emotional harrassment stories stem mostly from stupidity (or inattention) and ignorance rather than a cager going out of their way to respond to a percevied challenge.

IMHO.

[Ender EnZed]

assume territorial/aggressive body language while riding to deter others from bullying me, like using all the lane, making sure I was blocking the way forward for the vehicles following me so they won't think about overtaking me in the same lane, etc...

"Defensive" is what I'd call that. An L plate will make traffic (including other bikers) assume you're slower than them. Ride on the left and they'll assume you're letting them past.

L plates probably don't have as much affect on scooters since they're already seen as slow.

A fluoro vest is also going to make people think you'll travel slower than they'd think otherwise.

None of this really needs to matter if you're riding in the centre/centre right of your lane at the same speed as normal traffic.

[AllanB]

It's not all right to say they were asking for it - ever.

[Nibblet]

It's not all right to say they were asking for it - ever.

Family violence is no joke

[Ender EnZed]

Ride on the left and they'll assume you're letting them past.

Just offering my view on the possible workings of a road users mind. This applies to motorcyclists every bit as much as cagers. Many, many times on my 250 I let faster motorcyclists pass in my lane with no more indication on my part than moving to the left. It wouldn't look any different to a cager but their cage wouldn't comfortably fit.

[varminter]

On my six months with an L plate I only once was certain that I was getting a rev up from a tail gaiter and he was VERY close, let him past then shot him with the forward mounted bazooka.

[one fast tl1ooo]

Hell yeah - you'd either have to be old or retarded :rofl:

[Ms Piggy]

When I was on my Learners licence I rode both with and without an L plate - I put it back on b/c someone pointed out that my insurance might have been void if I wasn't displaying it. The best piece of advice my friend gave me was: "Ride like you own the road" and I did and it makes a big difference.

Anyhoo - basically I found that as I became a more confident rider, L plate or no it makes no difference to the way cagers treated me. I'm not sure about the high-vis vest thing though - some ppl say it makes no difference but I find it handy when I'm trying to find my man in the traffic! He wears 1 of those X ones.

[chef]

i havent displayed my L plate yet go for ristricted in a few days. dont even want to put it on for the test, i dont know how riders put on the big bright yellow L sign wich really says im a looser all over it, sorry to the people who do but id rather risk the $400 or try my luck and b.s a pigga. the moral of the story dont wear a L plate and you have no troubles at all

[Maki]

WThe best piece of advice my friend gave me was: "Ride like you own the road" and I did and it makes a big difference.


These are wise words.

[Ms Piggy]

Actually I also doubt that most cagers, who are not involved with motorcycles, aren't aware that a learner licenced rider is legally only allowed to ride at a top speed of 70kms/hour.

Of course this discussion around speed for a learner riders has been done to death but I believe it can contribute to the way learner riders are treated by cagers.

[StoneY]

Cant say I had that experience but then again it was just a little L in a WOF holder in my day

Not to mention I had my Provisional for 4 hours, and my Restricted for 3 weeks.
Had full license at age 15+3 weeks - bless the old MOT days when they did an internal course at Trentham

I feel for the modern motorcyclist just starting out

[NighthawkNZ]

Actually I also doubt that most cagers, who are not involved with motorcycles, aren't aware that a learner licenced rider is legally only allowed to ride at a top speed of 70kms/hour.

Most cagers don't know...

[Zuki lover]

Only if you wanta be gay,,, :wari::wari:





:whocares::wari::bye:

[george formby]

I guess being easily seen & displaying your status as a learner may come across as an opportunity for some mirth & moronic action to the slow people who drive fast cars but anybody with half a brain would no doubt respect these attempts at safety. As already stated, ride in space & observe & control the road all around you. Somebody once told me to "ride big". I would think of wearing a high viz vest, even in my dotage, if they did'nt flap like startled crows, I,ve settled for a leather with big yellow stripes instead, questionable taste I know. If you are holding up traffic, just let them past at the first safe opportunity & indicate your intentions in plenty of time. I have to do this for plenty of bikes who catch me when I'm tootling along & a few cars. It's no drama.

[TOTO]

I always had my flouro vest and an L plate on when on my learners and always had a flouro on during my restricted.

I found most people to be tolerant to my mistakes, and I got away with many. Sure there were some pricks, but generally I was well happy with being visible noob :yes:

[kunoichi]

Don't know about the fluro vest, but with my L plate on i'v only ever been harassed once, and that was by a police officer going 86km in a 100km zone. Got a 400bux ticket for it too, but i wrote in for an appeal. hope they wave it.

I say the only time a fluro vest is really needed is if ur gunna ride through the outback in the middle of the night, where u know that u'v got little chance of being seen. The L plate is all good, just keep an eye out for cops who have nothing better to do with their time! :Playnice:

[george formby]

I always had my flouro vest and an L plate on when on my learners and always had a flouro on during my restricted.

I found most people to be tolerant to my mistakes, and I got away with many. Sure there were some pricks, but generally I was well happy with being visible noob :yes:

Good on ya, the better you can be seen the safer I reckon. A driver experiment in Europe years ago demonstrated that a driver may see a bike but the brain would not register it because they were looking for a car, headlight on improved things & bright helmet & clothes improved things further.
Their are none so blind as those who will not see. That's why you fit a big horn & loud pipes.:lol:

[Squiggles]

L plates nah,
My thoughts are that L platers tend to be newbies, realising how vulnerable they are out there on a bike, they notice bad driving more and tend to put it down to the plate... (bar seeing more silly overtaking thanks to the speed differential if they obey that law). If you think it makes you more vulnerable...
Too many ditch the l plate because they think it looks dorky, then justify it with claims of additional danger.

[Tink]

Don't know about the fluro vest, but with my L plate on i'v only ever been harassed once, and that was by a police officer going 86km in a 100km zone. Got a 400bux ticket for it too, but i wrote in for an appeal. hope they wave it.

I say the only time a fluro vest is really needed is if ur gunna ride through the outback in the middle of the night, where u know that u'v got little chance of being seen. The L plate is all good, just keep an eye out for cops who have nothing better to do with their time! :Playnice:

I ride with my L plate, and over that time, I have had no problems, cars have been patient, mind you the man is 10 metres behind me hogging the road, so they can't get past. I rode about 80 - 85km today (I know wrong) but the traffic was so bad behind me, and no where to pull over safely... this to me was a safer option than going 70km, and being harrassed...$400 for a ticket is a joke. Was he having a bad hair day!!!!

Has no one ever partitioned Land transport (govt) to have the 70km in a 100km zone lifted to 85 or more.... I can imagine how hard it is to only ride on 70km roads, you would never get anywhere...... and why is there no questions in the driving licence questionnaire for drivers about motorbikes... mmm!!!

[gsx katana]

It is up to you if you wanta wear it.... but not for me:cool:

[magicmonkey]

I have an L plate, displayed to embrace the dorkiness that is in me!

I've not been on the road long but I've had varying reactions from car drivers, one guy quite deliberately sheilded me from the traffic behind him on my first day out as I was having a bit of a wobbly few moments, I'm sure he must have been a biker stuck in a cage though! Drivers are drivers, if they're going to be arsehole then there's nothing you can do to stop them, it's all good though, just the way the world spins...

[Mandy]

I usually have my sweet L plate on when I'm riding around town. The ultimate combo of the L plate and people knowing I'm a chick (pony tail sticking out from under my helmet) usually makes people keep a little bit of distance behind me. I haven't had any abuse for going slow around roundabouts or just being a generally average rider. That might just be because Palmerston North drivers in general are pretty bad. :third:

I usually take my L plate off if I'm going into go over 70km. Just about needed that spare pair of undies when I got overtaken by a truck and trailer trying to go 70km on the open road. If they are going to make learners go 70km they need to make sure you can pull over at any time!:mad:

[snuffles]

I wonder, do car drivers see flouro vests and L plates as some kind of challenge? Do they go out of their way to scare/harass riders with these items? If you think so, then why do you think that is?

Please share your views and experiences, especially if you feel that other road users treat you differently if you are wearing a flouro vest and displaying an L plate...

I think the L Plate is dangerous, but i wear a Fluro vest for commuting, never under estimate the value of a day glow vest........saved my bacon many a time

[kunoichi]

I ride with my L plate, and over that time, I have had no problems, cars have been patient, mind you the man is 10 metres behind me hogging the road, so they can't get past. I rode about 80 - 85km today (I know wrong) but the traffic was so bad behind me, and no where to pull over safely... this to me was a safer option than going 70km, and being harrassed...$400 for a ticket is a joke. Was he having a bad hair day!!!!

Has no one ever partitioned Land transport (govt) to have the 70km in a 100km zone lifted to 85 or more.... I can imagine how hard it is to only ride on 70km roads, you would never get anywhere...... and why is there no questions in the driving licence questionnaire for drivers about motorbikes... mmm!!!

Yip it's a fucked up rule and most ppl agree. Anyways wrote in an appeal and got the infringement waivered. If any u guys end up in the same situation, get a hold of Partrik. he helped me out big time.

[Tink]

Yip it's a fucked up rule and most ppl agree. Anyways wrote in an appeal and got the infringement waivered. If any u guys end up in the same situation, get a hold of Partrik. he helped me out big time.

What did ya do to get caught?... and there is no harm in appealing... some rules are made to broken, and this one is... I think learners should be 1 month at 70km, in areas at 70km, and then after that open it to 100km... after that, still on the learners tho if they must.

[tcpdump]

Yip it's a fucked up rule and most ppl agree. Anyways wrote in an appeal and got the infringement waivered. If any u guys end up in the same situation, get a hold of Partrik. he helped me out big time.

Please give us more details, I read the story about how you got caught but it would be good to know how to fight against the fine. I assume you also didn't get the demerit points?

Thanks.

EDIT: I wonder if you get caught without the L plate and "speeding" (of course, under 100km/h) you can also make an appeal.

[PrincessBandit]

I only had a couple of issues with dickhead drivers while on my L - and I displayed mine all the time. Twice I had idiot young guys (one incident was a car load of youfs) overtaking me dangerously on residential streets yelling abuse at me when I was already riding at 55kph anyway; once I had an older man (middleaged to elderly dickhead) honk and gesticulate at me from behind as I slowed to enter a roundabout FFS. No accounting for jerks like that. Other than that I believe most people were prepared to give me room and not rant at me when they had to sit behind me occasionally while waiting for me to move off from an intersection or slowing down more than perhaps necessary when approaching a corner.

However having said that, twice in the last two days I've had drivers tailgate me on the bandit. A gentle tap tap of the brake light worked miraculously!

[PrincessBandit]

Oh and as for the hi-vis vest the thing I don't like about them is the way even a small one flaps around on me. I'd still wear it at night though. In daylight my two jackets are pretty eyecatching anyway - fire engine red suomy and baby blue M2R - not your easily-fading-into-the-background colours!

[marine0089]

Been riding for a few months now. Never used an 'L' plate. Heck, I don't even own one. I rode a scooter for years when younger, I have my full car license, I know the road rules, I know how to ride my bike, and the 70k/hr speed limit is an utter joke. With this method i've never had any problems with cagers. You act like your on your restricted or full and everyone assumes you are on your restricted or full.

IF I didn't have my full car license however, I would probably be displaying one as you are more likely to do something wrong if you are trying to learn the road rules, gain road experience, and learn the workings of your bike all at the same time. The 'L' plate is really just an apology to the other motorists for when you do something wrong.

[centaurus]

However having said that, twice in the last two days I've had drivers tailgate me on the bandit. A gentle tap tap of the brake light worked miraculously!

I've had big problems with tailgating for a long time and couldn't shake them off in any way. The taps on the brake lever didn't do anything most times.

A few months ago I have found the answer: riding on a very straight road in a 50kph zone in a queue of cars, I got bored so started gently weaving on my lane from left to right, avoiding imaginary potholes and manholes. To my surprise, the car behind immediately increased its following distance.

Since then, every time somebody tailgates me I start weaving gently in my lane. It's absolutely safe and legal, but from behind, to a cage driver that doesn't know anything about bikes, it looks like you're losing control and are about to crash and they don't want to be involved in what they perceive as an immediate accident so they drop back (at least that's my theory as to why, but it works everytime).

[tcpdump]

Ha, I noticed the same thing the other day.
Being a bit bored and wanted to practice how to avoid obstacles I starting avoiding road marks and some invisible obstacles (on my lane, perfectly safe) and I noticed that the car behind me gained considerable distance from me :)

[Cheshire Cat]

I've had a few cagers try to undertake me on wide roads.fucking wankers.Even with no Lplate.:oi-grr: some of them are just wankstains:argh:

[mattian]

" hope they wave it."

If they're Harley riders, they won't wave......... oh, do you mean waive it?

[TuonoTom]

Unlike many, I did display my L plate for the whole time I was on my learners. Lots of people told me that it would make me a target for car drivers, but I never had any grief from them in the 10,000ks I did while on my learners. I also never kept to that idiotic/suicidal 70 kmph speed limit, and never got pulled up. As long as you are sensible I'm pretty sure the cops won't do you for exceeding 70 kmph on the open road. I tried sticking to the 70 kmph limit for about two minutes before i realised it was stupid. Car drivers generally aren't aware of the rule, and so won't be very sympathetic towards you.

[Mudfart]

holy crap, Im only allowed to do 70? That makes it awful dangerous on the waikato expressway I commute. People spew if ur doin anything under 120. And cars are only allowed to have one working headlight. Damn this means Im gonna have to get the road code out again after 18yrs of motoring just to pass my bloody R and full class 6.

[avgas]

Yes...........................

[p.dath]

Yes...........................

+1, and if you can't travel safely on the road mentioned - don't go on it.

[Vern]

My Daughter has taken her L plate off and does not get targeted as much as she did with it on. I took her for a ride over to W(H)anganui and I was shocked at how close the cars past beside her or plainly cut her off, It could easily bought on a attack of road rage. Vern:argh: