Help! 2 Strokes or 4

[Southern Biker]

I want to get a new bike something around the 2004 - 2006 mark, but the more I get into it the more confused I get as to whether I should get a 2 stroke or a four.
I initially wanted a YZF 450, but was told I should go 2 stroke for less parts and maintenance cost, I will only really be trail riding and I'm an intermediate rider. I like 2 strokers and I dont want to spend loads on maintenance but of course expect to have some budget for it. I guess it's like flipping a coin but the 2 strokes are getting less common it seems. Any thoughts, was this guy talkin through a hole in his tail pipe? what do you guy's reckon. 2 or 4?

Cheers.

[secondfield]

Oh - oh here we go again! buy the 450 mate.

[hayd3n]

2 strokes have little or no engine braking and youll have trouble downhills

[little.whittle]

If you are going for the 'FUN' and thill of riding definatly go for the two strokes. Theyre more fun and more challenging to ride. They also much cheaper to maintain and if sumething goes wrong its not going to be worth it. buying a second hand older 4-stroke can be a bit dodgey because if it goes wrong its not going to be worth it to fix. 4-strokes are easyer to ride and get more grip and are easyer to ride faster.

I reckon 2stroke if you are trail riding etc. heres a couple..

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-234436661.htm This could be a bit too much brute power but are fun to ride. A exc could be ideal...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-244476733.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-245297110.htm

[green machine]

If you are going for the 'FUN' and thill of riding definatly go for the two strokes. Theyre more fun and more challenging to ride. They also much cheaper to maintain and if sumething goes wrong its not going to be worth it. buying a second hand older 4-stroke can be a bit dodgey because if it goes wrong its not going to be worth it to fix. 4-strokes are easyer to ride and get more grip and are easyer to ride faster.

I reckon 2stroke if you are trail riding etc. heres a couple..

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-234436661.htm This could be a bit too much brute power but are fun to ride. A exc could be ideal...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-244476733.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-245297110.htm
Well i have a 4 stroke and that's FUN and thrilling whittle....good luck with your choice mate,best to have a ride on a few different bikes if possible....because you're probably gonna end up more confused asking us......lots of one eyed riders on here:innocent:............and to quote secondfield,here we go again(sigh)

[little.whittle]

Corse 4-strokes are still fun! :Punk: Just less challenging to ride. You should see if you can ride both of them to make your choice of what you like beta :niceone:

[vr4king]

Corse 4-strokes are still fun! :Punk: Just less challenging to ride. You should see if you can ride both of them to make your choice of what you like beta :niceone:


I beg to differ i have just came of a 1252t to 250f and to be honest i find it a pig to ride i felt more in controll on the 125.........My biggest issue is weight the 125 i felt i could point it in the right direction easier

there is no real answer to this Q get what you like and can afford to fix cause a bike broken in the shed that you cant afford to fix is really not that much fun and easy to ride

[Mumbles]

2T - I'm still trying to get my head around it... :Oops: but fun fun fun

[barty5]

yup here we go again the urban myth of 4ts cost more to rebuild total bollacks if you ask me sure parts might cost a little more but if your not racing it they will last twice as long piece a piss shit i only did my top end a 60 odd hours in which time ive seen some 2smokers used bout the same amount of time if not less going for their second rebuild which bring the costs to bout equal. as for the know how of doing it your self if you can read and can build a 2smoker then you can do a 4t just as easy just as many movin part when you take in to account the power valves etc etc with a 2smoker.


Buy what you feel most happy with riding at the end of the day make your own choice and dont make a choice on repair cost cause its not reallly an issue.

[Southern Biker]

My last post went missing? anyway I got a 07 RMZ 250 in the end, who wants to go riding?

[Southern Biker]

yup here we go again the urban myth of 4ts cost more to rebuild total bollacks if you ask me sure parts might cost a little more but if your not racing it they will last twice as long piece a piss shit i only did my top end a 60 odd hours in which time ive seen some 2smokers used bout the same amount of time if not less going for their second rebuild which bring the costs to bout equal. as for the know how of doing it your self if you can read and can build a 2smoker then you can do a 4t just as easy just as many movin part when you take in to account the power valves etc etc with a 2smoker.


Buy what you feel most happy with riding at the end of the day make your own choice and dont make a choice on repair cost cause its not reallly an issue.

You make a damn good case Barty

[barty5]

Good stuff lads, seems it really comes down to maintenance cost. I have ridden both although never owned a four. And the new fours are quite mean just the potential cost shits me. I am looking at a KTM300 EXC 2003 and a 2005 YZF 450. Arrrgh this is doing my head in. Guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and make a decision. I really just wanna hook up with a club or a crew and go on day/weekend/overnight rides so the thought of elec start and front lights has it's benefits eg the KTM. Maybe the question is whats the better bike for long trails river crossings overnight trips etc. Thanks heaps everyone for your comments.

only comment on this is they are both great bikes (i have an 08 yz450f) but when looking at my trade accounts for others who have asked for prices on parts there are a lot less aftermarket parts for the KTM range but in saying that dont let that be what makes up your mind either try them both out 1st

[flyingcr250]

2stroke 2stroke 2stroke 2stroke 2stroke 2stroke 2stroke

just my 2c worth ha ha ha :innocent:

[4stroke]

yup here we go again the urban myth of 4ts cost more to rebuild total bollacks if you ask me sure parts might cost a little more but if your not racing it they will last twice as long piece a piss shit i only did my top end a 60 odd hours in which time ive seen some 2smokers used bout the same amount of time if not less going for their second rebuild which bring the costs to bout equal. as for the know how of doing it your self if you can read and can build a 2smoker then you can do a 4t just as easy just as many movin part when you take in to account the power valves etc etc with a 2smoker.


Buy what you feel most happy with riding at the end of the day make your own choice and dont make a choice on repair cost cause its not reallly an issue.


and if you do the oil changes regularly you can go to 100 hrs before a top end rebuild, thats what my hondas did and the husky will be the same...

[t595]

2stroke 2stroke 2stroke 2stroke 2stroke 2stroke 2stroke

just my 2c worth ha ha ha :innocent:

i 2nd that!!!

[Rupe]

Good stuff lads, seems it really comes down to maintenance cost. I have ridden both although never owned a four. And the new fours are quite mean just the potential cost shits me. I am looking at a KTM300 EXC 2003 and a 2005 YZF 450. Arrrgh this is doing my head in. Guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and make a decision. I really just wanna hook up with a club or a crew and go on day/weekend/overnight rides so the thought of elec start and front lights has it's benefits eg the KTM. Maybe the question is whats the better bike for long trails river crossings overnight trips etc. Thanks heaps everyone for your comments.

quite different bikes there enduro vs mx, mx and enduro have quite different maintenace shedules regardless of stroke.

I'd probably focus on what you want out of a bike before wondering if you want 2t or 4t.

Pretty sure a 03 ktm exc won't have electric start. If you want to do overnight rides, I've riiden a couple of bikes with standard lights in the woods, and found them pretty useless. Also those yzf450's are mx weapons, fast, grunty, handle great, but not really ideal for technical trails.

Why do you want such big bore bikes anyway, they work against you in a lot of cases.

It also sounds like you don't want to spend much on maintenace so if you want to learn to do all the repair/maintenace yourself get something that doesn't scare you to take to pieces.

The running costs of 2t vs 4t can differ greatly from bike to bike, the main thing is to get one that has been maintained well, and continue that.

[Rupe]

2 strokes have little or no engine braking and youll have trouble downhills

lol, could always use the brakes! Pretty sure thats what the do on those things with peddles.

[kezzafish]

Yeah i recon your after an enduro bike rather than an MXer so you should be looking at the WR450 instead of the YZ for and overnight type stuff. Yz will be faster tho and more fun on the trail rides, better suspension etc. and if your worried about maintenance get the newest bike that fits your needs (or the least used/best maintained one) look at and test ride as many as you can

[IIIRII]

Theres other things to consider also.
Your riding style, ability, strength , stamina etc:
On the maintenance side, you still need to do chains and sprockets, wheels bearings, tires, oil changes, air filters etc: regardless of which bike you own.
So if you are specifically asking engine maintenance, and you want to rebuild it, then yes the two stroke will be cheaper and easier to do a top end rebuild (new piston /rings) but you might not need to do it at all on a 4 stroke ....
My 05 KTM excr 350 has done 190 hrs and never had a thing done to it except the valve clearances.

my 2c worth.
If you buy a low hr 4 stroke and look after it, i dont see why its that much of an issue.

[B0000M]

lol, could always use the brakes! Pretty sure thats what the do on those things with peddles.

lol!

[10chars]

[telliman]

lol, could always use the brakes! Pretty sure thats what the do on those things with peddles.

i find that trees also help in this particular situation!

[barty5]

lol, could always use the brakes! Pretty sure thats what the do on those things with peddles.

brakes can be over rated any why bother slowing down down a hill everyone will pass you.

[cheese]

Another debate on 4 v 2.... sigh....

both require as much work to be done on them, 4's have more bits in them, but if you are confident, to DIY they are pretty similar in price. If you take it to the shop to get a rebuild done, you're going to get ass fucked.

[B0000M]

Another debate on 4 v 2.... sigh....

both require as much work to be done on them,

i dont remember the last time someone had to add or remove shims from their 2 stroke valves, or replace a timing chain, or timing chain tensioner, or replace an oil filter, or replace valve stem seals, or buy $60+ spark plugs, or have to remove the tank to get to aforemetioned spark plug

but hey, get whatever you enjoy riding. theres not THAT much more to do on a 4 stroke that you'll actually have to do

[t595]

Another debate on 4 v 2.... sigh....

both require as much work to be done on them, 4's have more bits in them, but if you are confident, to DIY they are pretty similar in price. If you take it to the shop to get a rebuild done, you're going to get ass fucked.

????????? r u sure

[bogan]

Dunno if this is comon to all 2t but went for a bash round some forestry area, 20min later the plug was fouled and completely fucked, my mates 4ts were still going strong. So i dont take my 2t on trail rides, partially for that reason, but mostly cos compared to the track trail rides are a bit boring.

[B0000M]

Dunno if this is comon to all 2t but went for a bash round some forestry area, 20min later the plug was fouled and completely fucked, my mates 4ts were still going strong. So i dont take my 2t on trail rides, partially for that reason, but mostly cos compared to the track trail rides are a bit boring.

nah, if you're fouling plugs your bike is jetted wrong.


a correctly jetted 2 stroke will be able to put around forever without fouling plugs.

- to put this into context, i replace my plug once a year, when i do a top end rebuild. i dont replace it because i need to, i just do it because the electrode is becoming very small / worn out

[Rupe]

i dont remember the last time someone had to add or remove shims from their 2 stroke valves, or replace a timing chain, or timing chain tensioner, or replace an oil filter, or replace valve stem seals, or buy $60+ spark plugs, or have to remove the tank to get to aforemetioned spark plug

but hey, get whatever you enjoy riding. theres not THAT much more to do on a 4 stroke that you'll actually have to do

$60 plugs WTF, lol think I paid $6 for mine from bnt.

[B0000M]

$60 plugs WTF, lol think I paid $6 for mine from bnt.

according to guys ive spoken to who have replaced them the crf ones cost upwards of $60 - kxf ones may be a different case

[Rupe]

according to guys ive spoken to who have replaced them the crf ones cost upwards of $60 - kxf ones may be a different case

Really, would have to make you a better rider.

[bogan]

nah, if you're fouling plugs your bike is jetted wrong.


a correctly jetted 2 stroke will be able to put around forever without fouling plugs.

- to put this into context, i replace my plug once a year, when i do a top end rebuild. i dont replace it because i need to, i just do it because the electrode is becoming very small / worn out

hmmm, may have to look into that, is it an easy diy job?

[motor_mayhem]

The $60 plugs you speak of are iridium plugs. They are supposed to last longer, some say they do, others prefer standard.

[barty5]

The $60 plugs you speak of are iridium plugs. They are supposed to last longer, some say they do, others prefer standard.

anyone who pays $60 for one of those plugs from a bike shop is a complete cock
I but them from Repco for $18 and they retail for $34 as all other platium and iridium plugs bike shops are just makin out they are super special youll even find a lot a repco branch will have in stock or can get same day or ill sellem to yah for $25

[B0000M]

hmmm, may have to look into that, is it an easy diy job?

yes and no, have a search for jetting threads. reckless is a bit of a 2 stroke jetting guru. a good place to start with jetting is stock or the manual, and its all about reading the plug

[cheese]

anyone who pays $60 for one of those plugs from a bike shop is a complete cock
I but them from Repco for $18 and they retail for $34 as all other platium and iridium plugs bike shops are just makin out they are super special youll even find a lot a repco branch will have in stock or can get same day or ill sellem to yah for $25

When I had my RM, I went to the Suzuki shop and I paid $60 for a spark plug. I had no other contacts to get them cheaper. I also checked with Repco and BNT and they didn't stock the special one that the RM needed.

I got a price for a Iridium one from Honda and it was $50!! Lucky that BNT stock them and I got one for $20.

You forget that people don't all have trade accounts.

[barty5]

When I had my RM, I went to the Suzuki shop and I paid $60 for a spark plug. I had no other contacts to get them cheaper. I also checked with Repco and BNT and they didn't stock the special one that the RM needed.

I got a price for a Iridium one from Honda and it was $50!! Lucky that BNT stock them and I got one for $20.

You forget that people don't all have trade accounts.

it not a case of having a trade account even with out one $34 is still way better than $60 that bikes and people on trade me are charging for them. Im just pointing out how much your getting ripped 350% mark up is a little bit much and if they are getting them from the importer it will be even more cause remember Repco are making on the $17 they charge me.

[Reckless]

yes and no, have a search for jetting threads. reckless is a bit of a 2 stroke jetting guru. a good place to start with jetting is stock or the manual, and its all about reading the plug

Good advice, stock or the manual to start with, jetting you can't do over the net you have to see and feel. But it def shouldn't foul plugs on a trail ride.

Plugs: I just use the cheapo standard ones, good, reliable, I ain't racing and a spark is a spark. Br8es or 9, just use the resistor one BR8 not B8es. As B8 (non resistor) I understand are not good for the ignition. I'm same as B000M my plugs stay in for a year just change them because they start to look shitty. I did have one fail in my sons bike for the first time in years, last time out at thunder, it was an Iridium one too, that I got from somewhere?? His bike wouldn't re-start down by the bog hole, I had to ride back to the truck on mine and get another plug.

Edit: I'd defy anyone to know by riding a bike whether it had a Br or iridium plug in it. The only way to know I reckon is by looking at the plug! LOL!! We used EGV plugs in our karts because we thought they where better/faster! Who knows the engine dyno didn't seem to??

[B0000M]

Im just pointing out how much your getting ripped 350% mark up is a little bit much and if they are getting them from the importer it will be even more cause remember Repco are making on the $17 they charge me.

which just echos again how scummy a lot of people in the bike / automotive industry are.

people who arent in the industry will pay whatever they need to pay, and usually assume their local bike shop isnt fucking them over...

the issue being in the automotive / bike industry is because there are so many variations of a product - eg spark plugs- simple part, but 1000s of variations at all different prices, nobody knows what 'normal retail price' should be for a 'spark plug' and will believe anything their dealer who you assume know what theyre talking about will tell you - take cheese's example with the rm, he went to suzuki, they told him it needs a special spark plug - who is cheese to argue? so he parted with $60 for it.

unfortunately there are a whole lot of cheese's out there and not everyone in the undustry is as happy as you are barty to release info on the cost prices and markup of their products.

i totally agree that resellers are within their rights to make a living, at the same time they need to not just blatantly fuck over their customers.

[barty5]

unfortunately there are a whole lot of cheese's out there


shit hope your joking lol

[vr4king]

Hahahaha when i had my cr fouling plugs i was buying that many of the br8es's they were selling them to me for just over 2 bucks a plug.......Id buy a box at a time

I still have a few left over and even an iriduim one as i was to scared to put it in for what they are worth just to foul it,Turns out all i needed to do was lift the clip on the neddle 2 spots never fouled a plug again

I still carry the plugs(even though they will never fit the crf)and ring spanner with me on trail rides as you never know when a smoker will need one and i can say i have saved a few poor souls from pushing there bikes home for the sake of a $5 plug one guy even paid me for one good on him lol............I just love it when you say why yes i do have a plug and spanner now that you ask and there face lights up like a xmas tree

Good times bring on summer

[cheese]

which just echos again how scummy a lot of people in the bike / automotive industry are.

people who arent in the industry will pay whatever they need to pay, and usually assume their local bike shop isnt fucking them over...

the issue being in the automotive / bike industry is because there are so many variations of a product - eg spark plugs- simple part, but 1000s of variations at all different prices, nobody knows what 'normal retail price' should be for a 'spark plug' and will believe anything their dealer who you assume know what theyre talking about will tell you - take cheese's example with the rm, he went to suzuki, they told him it needs a special spark plug - who is cheese to argue? so he parted with $60 for it.

unfortunately there are a whole lot of cheese's out there and not everyone in the undustry is as happy as you are barty to release info on the cost prices and markup of their products.

i totally agree that resellers are within their rights to make a living, at the same time they need to not just blatantly fuck over their customers.

I guess some places prefer to make a stupid mark up instead of return customers. I went to suzuki, they were the experts, I took their advice. They made a song and a dance about it being a special plug.

Anyway, that is why I don't ride a Suzuki anymore.

Anyway I think that we've been over this 500000000 times already.

Electric bikes will come out in 5 years and take over the world anyway. Then we will be debating lithium batteries versus NiMh batteries. LOL

[kezzafish]

Electric bikes will come out in 5 years and take over the world anyway. Then we will be debating lithium batteries versus NiMh batteries. LOL

Awesome, can't wait

[little.whittle]

If you mix half race gas and half 95 or 98 you shouldnt have any problems then :2thumbsup

[B0000M]

If you mix half race gas and half 95 or 98 you shouldnt have any problems then :2thumbsup



is there any fact or science behind this old wives tale? you hear it all the time

[IIIRII]

Some people think 2 strokes dont like leaded fuel, therefore they assume by adding 50/50 avi to leaded 98 it will lesson the chance of fowling presumably.

If the bike is jetted right and runs the right heat range plug, i doubt it will make a blind bit of difference.

Like it or not 2 strokes always have oil in the fuel and therefore always in the combusion chamber.

If its jetted for doing the land speed record and you ride it on a trials day , dont be supprised if it fowls a plug etc: ....

And , hybrid fuels for average people are just another thing to complicate riding, when it really isnt rocket science.

Avi also is a lot more likely to cause damamge to aluminium and fuel lines as it is a lot more agressive than leaded fuel.

And if all you want to do is raise octaine you are better off using tolulene (but again why make it hard)

[kezzafish]

aye? 98 isn't leaded... av gas is

Uh oh... we haven't been through this one in a few weeks

[Southern Biker]

And the verdict is: drum roll..... 07 RMZ 250 and shes a minter, now I just need some dudes to ride with...

[green machine]

And the verdict is: drum roll..... 07 RMZ 250 and shes a minter, now I just need some dudes to ride with...

Nice one mate.......i'm sure you will have a ball riding it

[Southern Biker]

Yeah I would have liked a KTM 300 exc but next time when I'm richer, they arent cheap.

[Southern Biker]

Is the Waimak the only place to ride in ChCh? where to go for a fang? Anyone? I might check it out and start a thread

[IIIRII]

Some people think 2 strokes dont like leaded fuel,

Shit, Sorry Kezza, Typo

Some people think 2 strokes dont like unleaded fuel,