Barack Hussein Obama gets Nobel Peace Prize

[Hans]

I mean, you gotta be kidding, right?

[NDORFN]

I mean, you gotta be kidding, right?

Why kidding?

[Forest]

Seems a bit soon.

Having said that, he has been President for nine months and still hasn't started a war with anyone. That's got to be some sort of record.

[Marmoot]

And he's trying to stop one.

[cs363]

Not wanting to bag the guy out of turn (I know, not normal practise for KB, but...) what has he actually achieved so far, besides making about 200 or so speeches?
He is certainly a great orator, but I'm sitting here struggling to think of even one thing he's actually done - is he the quintessential hollow man or have I just got the wrong end of the stick?

[Elysium]

Not wanting to bag the guy out of turn (I know, not normal practise for KB, but...) what has he actually achieved so far, besides making about 200 or so speeches?
He is certainly a great orator, but I'm sitting here struggling to think of even one thing he's actually done - is he the quintessential hollow man or have I just got the wrong end of the stick?

I agree. Bill Clinton was a far better orator. I think because he's the first black president may have been a factor?

[jono035]

I agree. Bill Clinton was a far better orator. I think because he's the first black president may have been a factor?

If it is because he's the first black president then surely that reeks of a racism far more subtle and insidious than some clowns in white sheets and silly looking hats?

[SPORK]

Really? That was unexpected (haven't looked to see if this is a pisstake or not). Shutting down Guantanamo Bay was a brilliant start, though.

[Drew]

I think because he's the first black president may have been a factor?He is not a "black" president, he is simply the president. Ethnicity has fuck all to do with his position.


If it is because he's the first black president then surely that reeks of a racism far more subtle and insidious than some clowns in white sheets and silly looking hats?Well said.

People who judge his presidency based on the colour of his skin are small minded I think.

[sAsLEX]

People who judge his presidency based on the colour of his skin are small minded I think.

Been to the southern states recently?

[Skyryder]

Bit soon in my books................but hey knowing those Southern rednecks someone might be hedging their bets.:dodge:


Skyryder

[Drew]

Been to the southern states recently?

Never been out of NZ.

Does any answer to your question make my statement less true?

[MisterD]

Bit soon in my books................

Given that nominations closed a whole two weeks after BHO was sworn in, that's an understatement. It's hard to see this as anything other than European lefties having a final pop at the last president, pretty pathetic really.

[Jonno.]

100 mistakes in 100 days (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/days_mistakes_iqmvJLSvDfvUIxgNkYBrjM)

[wbks]

He is not a "black" president, he is simply the president. Ethnicity has fuck all to do with his position.

Well said.

People who judge his presidency based on the colour of his skin are small minded I think.As evident by the fact that about 95% of black people voted him in...


Not wanting to bag the guy out of turn (I know, not normal practise for KB, but...) what has he actually achieved so far, besides making about 200 or so speeches?
He is certainly a great orator, but I'm sitting here struggling to think of even one thing he's actually done - is he the quintessential hollow man or have I just got the wrong end of the stick?Pretty much what I'm wondering... Kind of pisses me off this talk about "ending the war in afghanistan", though. The Brits, NZ, Aus and others stick their neck out helping the yanks going in there, and he just wants to cut and run with what seems to be not much consideration for the others involved

[Elysium]

He is not a "black" president, he is simply the president. Ethnicity has fuck all to do with his position.

Well said.

People who judge his presidency based on the colour of his skin are small minded I think.
Not in America, race and the colour of your skin seems to mean a lot over there. I'm sorry but your answer tells me you don't know much about America at all.

[Skyryder]

This is the 'official' reason. I think the crux of the decision appears to be the importance of Obama's vision of a world without nuclear weapons. Make of this what you will.

Skyryder


Announcement

The Norwegian Nobel Committee

The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

Oslo, October 9, 2009

[wbks]

Am I the only one wondering what superweapon the yanks have developed? I can't really see a superpower abandoning nukes unless they have found something better...

[FlangMasterJ]

Am I the only one wondering what superweapon the yanks have developed? I can't really see a superpower abandoning nukes unless they have found something better...

Chuck Norris wasn't developed he was born!

[Indiana_Jones]

YOU CAN'T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR ARMS!

-Indy

[Hans]

Really? That was unexpected (haven't looked to see if this is a pisstake or not). Shutting down Guantanamo Bay was a brilliant start, though.

Sorry bud, he did this when? He has so far spoken about doing it, but hasn't actually done it.

[SPORK]

Huh, shit - my mistake. Egg = on face.

[oldrider]

Am I the only one wondering what superweapon the yanks have developed? I can't really see a superpower abandoning nukes unless they have found something better...

Good point but I reckon they are just bolstering up their favourite old weapon, "Bullshit"!

They have always used fear to maintain control, fear of this, fear of that!

The presumption that they could spot and kill a fly anywhere on earth at any time has been kicked into touch by Osama Bin laden and his cronies!

The presumption that they could locate and quietly despatch any adversary anywhere in the world at any time has also gone down the toilet!

Once again, thanks to Osama the destroyer and his cronies!

That the United States fighting men are the best in the world, has been diluted by events in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan etc in recent years.

The rest of the world has moved on with this one, as the saying goes, only in America!

In defence of the individual soldiers of America I do believe that it is the people in charge, (including politicians) rather than their servicemen that are at fault there!

The only real thing to fear about fear, is fear it's self and the way people as individuals or groups allow themselves to be manipulated by it!

If the USA wants clean up anything that's detrimental to the American way of life and national security, they should, (IMHO) drop a "big" bomb on Hollywood!

American soldiers saved our bacon in WW2 and I will never forget them for that but this is almost 2010 and a lot of things have changed.

I think American people are great, it's just their leaders who have lost the plot but then again, who elect their leaders! :rolleyes:

BTW, I am inclined to be pro America, rather than anti! :shifty:

[Drew]

Not in America, race and the colour of your skin seems to mean a lot over there. I'm sorry but your answer tells me you don't know much about America at all.


Nice patronising tone there.

You think you know more clearly, and probably so. I'll now send all my posts to you since you are right about everything from now on, for you to go over them.

Thanks.

[Ms Piggy]

Not wanting to bag the guy out of turn (I know, not normal practise for KB, but...) what has he actually achieved so far, besides making about 200 or so speeches?
He is certainly a great orator, but I'm sitting here struggling to think of even one thing he's actually done - is he the quintessential hollow man or have I just got the wrong end of the stick?

Yes, I was actually wondering the same thing. It appears he is an awesome man and has succeeded in becoming the 1st black President but I don't think that on it's own should make for him winning a Nobel Peace Prize.

Ah ha! I just read an good article http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10602432 that poses the same question and gives some good answers including:
Not being George Bush was a good start. and
In his will, the founder Alfred Nobel said that the prize should go "to the person who shall have done the most, or the best, work for fraternity between the nations and the abolition or reduction of standing armies and the formation and spreading of peace congresses". It is hard to think of anyone of whom that is truer last year than Barack Obama.

[Mekk]

"OSLO – The announcement drew gasps of surprise and cries of too much, too soon. Yet President Barack Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday because the judges found his promise of disarmament and diplomacy too good to ignore."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091009/ap_on_re_eu/eu_nobel_peace

I thought the Nobel Prize was given to people after they had accomplished the feat.

Promises are fantastic but talk's talk and walk's walk.

[MisterD]

I thought the Nobel Prize was given to people after they had accomplished the feat.


Sadly Mekk, this is the way that the Nobel prizes with actual credibility work (the prize for Physics was awarded for work done 30+ years ago).

The peace prize has always been a tool to make political statements...

[Elysium]

Nice patronising tone there.

You think you know more clearly, and probably so. I'll now send all my posts to you since you are right about everything from now on, for you to go over them.

Thanks.

No need. You can help yourself by finding out facts first before posting incorrect info as you did before. :sherlock:

Nice patronising tone there.
I aint patronising, just pointing out an obvious error on your part as what you posted was so blatantly wrong so you shouldn't be offended if someone points this out, well a few people did anyhow.

[Mekk]

Sadly Mekk, this is the way that the Nobel prizes with actual credibility work (the prize for Physics was awarded for work done 30+ years ago).

It's a shame that such a prestigious award has been allowed to lose credibility.

[MisterD]

It's a shame that such a prestigious award has been allowed to lose credibility.

The failure to award it to Ghandi did for its cred a long, long time ago...awarding it to Gore and BHO just about complete the transition to "laughing stock"

[Mekk]

The failure to award it to Ghandi did for its cred a long, long time ago...awarding it to Gore and BHO just about complete the transition to "laughing stock"

Just looking at their site, I can see Joseph Stalin was nominated as well for his efforts to end WWII.

Gold.

[Elysium]

Just looking at their site, I can see Joseph Stalin was nominated as well for his efforts to end WWII.

Gold.

Oh yes it was hard work back then signing death warrants or consigning entire populations to starvation, No wonder Stalin was nominated.:crazy:

[RavenR44]

Just looking at their site, I can see Joseph Stalin was nominated as well for his efforts to end WWII.

Gold.

Not sure of your point there, but it sounds like you don't accept that Stalin had a significant part in ending WW2, at least in Europe. That flies in the face of the reality of the extraordinary achievement of the Soviet forces in defeating the German forces. Sadly, the victory was at huge cost to the Soviet people. Doesn't diminish the enormity of the result though.

And arguably the Americans' hasty application of the atomic bomb on Japan was due in part to Stalin's intent to invade Manchukuo (Manchuria) and thence Kyushu. That atomic bombing in turn shortened the Pacific war by some months.

So you would have difficulty in disallowing a claim that Stalin's efforts to shorten WW2, as selfish as they were, were effective.

Not saying he deserved a peace prize for it or to be nominated for it though, given the vast numbers of his countrymen he condemned to death in achieving that result.

But I may have misconstrued your comment. It could be you already accept Stalin's role in shortening the war and you were questioning just the rationale for his being nominated for a peace prize, perhaps?

[wbks]

Not sure of your point there, but it sounds like you don't accept that Stalin had a significant part in ending WW2, at least in Europe. That flies in the face of the reality of the extraordinary achievement of the Soviet forces in defeating the German forces. Sadly, the victory was at huge cost to the Soviet people. Doesn't diminish the enormity of the result though.

And arguably the Americans' hasty application of the atomic bomb on Japan was due in part to Stalin's intent to invade Manchukuo (Manchuria) and thence Kyushu. That atomic bombing in turn shortened the Pacific war by some months.

So you would have difficulty in disallowing a claim that Stalin's efforts to shorten WW2, as selfish as they were, were effective.

Not saying he deserved a peace prize for it or to be nominated for it though, given the vast numbers of his countrymen he condemned to death in achieving that result.

But I may have misconstrued your comment. It could be you already accept Stalin's role in shortening the war and you were questioning just the rationale for his being nominated for a peace prize, perhaps?Thanks for the history lesson, but I think he was getting at the fact that he was a monster, but they nominated him for the Nobel peace prize, so the prize doesn't actually mean fuck all

[Elysium]

Stalin helped shorten the war yes, well he had to make up for helping Germany early in the war didn't he?

[RavenR44]

Thanks for the history lesson, but I think he was getting at the fact that he was a monster, but they nominated him for the Nobel peace prize, so the prize doesn't actually mean fuck all

You're welcome. :)

[RavenR44]

Stalin helped shorten the war yes, well he had to make up for helping Germany early in the war didn't he?

I have a suspicion that self-preservation played more than a small part in Stalin's efforts. And as history records, Stalin was more into helping himself (to most of the old Soviet bloc countries for instance) than in helping other nations or peoples, so any assistance to Hitler would've been an unintended by-product, unwillingly provided.

But hey, we agree that shorten the war he did. All good. And that he was a murderous megalomaniac, no better than Hitler.

However, the Nobel Peace Prize has always been a crock, so by that that standard, BHO's 'win' has just as much credibility as any of the previous awards. Zip.

:D

[Forest]

It's a shame that such a prestigious award has been allowed to lose credibility.

Yeah. Because the award lost none of its credibility when it was awarded to Henry Kissinger, Anwar Sadat, and Yasser Arafat.

[MisterD]

Thanks for the history lesson, but I think he was getting at the fact that he was a monster, but they nominated him for the Nobel peace prize, so the prize doesn't actually mean fuck all

Mind you, he did quite well on the "reduction of standing armies" bit didn't he? I'm not sure Nobel had the method of getting lots of soldiers killed in mind, but...

[Mekk]

Yeah. Because the award lost none of its credibility when it was awarded to Henry Kissinger, Anwar Sadat, and Yasser Arafat.

I meant that it's a shame the award was allowed to lose credibility at all, regardless of who caused it to do so.



But I may have misconstrued your comment. It could be you already accept Stalin's role in shortening the war and you were questioning just the rationale for his being nominated for a peace prize, perhaps?

Right.

[Street Gerbil]

Given the extent of obama's policy of winning hearts and minds of enemies (at expense of the friends and allies), I'd say the only person more deserving NPP than BHO, I know of, is Mr. Arthur Neville Chamberlain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_chamberlain)

[98tls]

Stalin helped shorten the war yes, well he had to make up for helping Germany early in the war didn't he? Eh?The war would have been far shorter if he hadnt have been so paranoid leading up to it.

[98tls]

He is not a "black" president, he is simply the president. Ethnicity has fuck all to do with his position.

Well said.
:clap::killingme:killingme,sounds like a Tui ad.

[Pedrostt500]

No he prefered Oral. opps farked that up was supposed to quote sumun

[Street Gerbil]

He is not a "black" president, he is simply the president. Ethnicity has fuck all to do with his position.:clap::killingme:killingme,sounds like a Tui ad.

Well, "the first black president" was Bill Clinton. Look up "presidential nicknames" in wikipedia.

[Kiwi Graham]

Given that nominations closed a whole two weeks after BHO was sworn in, that's an understatement. It's hard to see this as anything other than European lefties having a final pop at the last president, pretty pathetic really.


Yes, I was actually wondering the same thing. It appears he is an awesome man and has succeeded in becoming the 1st black President but I don't think that on it's own should make for him winning a Nobel Peace Prize.
I have to agree.
I struggle to see how he has achieved this honour, surley its based on achievements and not claims on what he intends/hopes to do?

[ital916]

I think it is sad people are slaggin him off for getting it.

Unexpected yes. Underserved no. He has done stuff before his presidency and during the last few months, he has done all in his power to pull a country out of recessions, fix a failing health care system, he has never brought his skin coulour into it. He has had to right the wrongs of eight years of presidency of an idiot, stop a current war and prevent two others with iran and north korea. He is fighting to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons, has boosted trade with other nations, is working on bettering relations with asian nations, the list goes on. Yes he has been a president a short while, but time does not dictate the magnitude of ones actions. I hope he gets a second term, he is what america had needed.

[alanzs]

I think it is sad people are slaggin him off for getting it.

Unexpected yes. Underserved no. He has done stuff before his presidency and during the last few months, he has done all in his power to pull a country out of recessions, fix a failing health care system, he has never brought his skin coulour into it. He has had to right the wrongs of eight years of presidency of an idiot, stop a current war and prevent two others with iran and north korea. He is fighting to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons, has boosted trade with other nations, is working on bettering relations with asian nations, the list goes on. Yes he has been a president a short while, but time does not dictate the magnitude of ones actions. I hope he gets a second term, he is what america had needed.


It is more than just what America needs, it is what the world needs. The Bush administration was a bloody train wreck for the US, and the world. While we may not all like it, the US is the largest military and, for now, economic power there is. The US was completely screwed by Bush and company. I likened it to lending someone your car and they return it destroyed and owing money on it.

Bottom line, do we want the US being the leader or China? While we may chuff at the idea of a "leader" that's reality. Even though we are a small nation in the bottom of the pacific, WE are all in the same world...

[Mort]

Good on him and well deserved. He has made many actions to change the status of many disputes...

- Clearly differentiates his administration from the previous one by deed and implication and as a result reduced tension in a number of foreign policy issue.
- Removed/defused the main dispute with Russia over Anti Ballistic missiles.
- Reduced tension and opened the door to talks with N. Korea.
- Immediately addressed outstanding issues with Israel to lessen tension over Iran (an attack was imminent)
- Visit West Africa and promise support and boost profile
- Open the door with Iran whilst holding the big stick.
- Made a measured and not excessive move on boosting Afghanistan Army presence.
- Didn't piss off China by welcoming the DahLi Lama.... smart move.
- Opened the door to normal relations with Cuba
- Made significant moves towards nuclear weapons reductions in the near future.

Not a bad first 6 months in my opinion and more worthy than most . Plenty of boxes ticked. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong IMHO. Bold and progressive policies without regard for legacy, but addressing the current situation. Its what an election is all about. Make a change.

There is no doubt he has aggressively addressed the failings of the previous government. It appears that his overall goal is understanding, engagement and reduced confrontation. I see a much smarter view on US foreign policy.

Based on the above...I cant think of anyone who, in this last year, deserves it more. Good for him and the US.

[SPman]

And he's trying to stop one.Which one? - he seems to be escalating Afghanistan!

[SPman]

Really? That was unexpected (haven't looked to see if this is a pisstake or not). Shutting down Guantanamo Bay was a brilliant start, though.But it's still going strong. Shut down? Not at the moment!

[Grahameeboy]

Which one? - he seems to be escalating Afghanistan!

Possibly to achieve peace...............

[Kiwi Graham]

Good on him and well deserved. He has made many actions to change the status of many disputes...


Not a bad first 6 months in my opinion and more worthy than most . Plenty of boxes ticked. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong IMHO. Bold and progressive policies without regard for legacy, but addressing the current situation. Its what an election is all about. Make a change.

Based on the above...I cant think of anyone who, in this last year, deserves it more. Good for him and the US.

If it is to be belived: He was nominated for this award 2 weeks into his presidency.

Agreed he is a breath of fresh air for America and I hate to say the rest of the world but................was he really the best nominated?

Isn't it about achievements and not about what you want to achieve regardles of your position?

[Hans]

Good on him and well deserved. He has made many actions to change the status of many disputes...

- Clearly differentiates his administration from the previous one by deed and implication and as a result reduced tension in a number of foreign policy issue.
- Removed/defused the main dispute with Russia over Anti Ballistic missiles.
- Reduced tension and opened the door to talks with N. Korea.
- Immediately addressed outstanding issues with Israel to lessen tension over Iran (an attack was imminent)
- Visit West Africa and promise support and boost profile
- Open the door with Iran whilst holding the big stick.
- Made a measured and not excessive move on boosting Afghanistan Army presence.
- Didn't piss off China by welcoming the DahLi Lama.... smart move.
- Opened the door to normal relations with Cuba
- Made significant moves towards nuclear weapons reductions in the near future.

Not a bad first 6 months in my opinion and more worthy than most . Plenty of boxes ticked. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong IMHO. Bold and progressive policies without regard for legacy, but addressing the current situation. Its what an election is all about. Make a change.

There is no doubt he has aggressively addressed the failings of the previous government. It appears that his overall goal is understanding, engagement and reduced confrontation. I see a much smarter view on US foreign policy.

Based on the above...I cant think of anyone who, in this last year, deserves it more. Good for him and the US.

The problem is, that with the exception of one, all the points you have stated are actually dangerous mistakes. At least IMHO.

[SixPackBack]

Possibly to achieve peace...............

Uhhu.............Fighting for peace=fucking for virginity!

[scumdog]

Uhhu.............Fighting for peace=fucking for virginity!



Yup, best to lie back and let them fuck you over, saves a lot of bruising...

[wbks]

Uhhu.............Fighting for peace=fucking for virginity!

Every time I read one of your posts I swear my hope for NZ goes down a little

[SixPackBack]

Every time I read one of your posts I swear my hope for NZ goes down a little

Awesome. As you are probably aware your opinion means SO much to me and many others on KB.

[wbks]

Awesome. As you are probably aware your opinion means SO much to me and many others on KB.And as you are probably aware you are a dumbass. Sounds too simple? Its not

[Street Gerbil]

- Clearly differentiates his administration from the previous one by deed and implication and as a result reduced tension in a number of foreign policy issue.
- Removed/defused the main dispute with Russia over Anti Ballistic missiles.
- Reduced tension and opened the door to talks with N. Korea.
- Immediately addressed outstanding issues with Israel to lessen tension over Iran (an attack was imminent)
- Visit West Africa and promise support and boost profile
- Open the door with Iran whilst holding the big stick.
- Made a measured and not excessive move on boosting Afghanistan Army presence.
- Didn't piss off China by welcoming the DahLi Lama.... smart move.
- Opened the door to normal relations with Cuba
- Made significant moves towards nuclear weapons reductions in the near future.

The problem is, that with the exception of one, all the points you have stated are actually dangerous mistakes. At least IMHO.
Ugh... which one? I think they are all picture perfect examples of dumb moves.

[Hans]

I stand corrected. By golly, they are.

[scumdog]

And as you are probably aware you are a dumbass. Sounds too simple? Its not

Hey, stop picking on my target species!:devil2:

[Jonno.]

100 days, 100 mistakes (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/days_mistakes_iqmvJLSvDfvUIxgNkYBrjM)

[SixPackBack]

100 days, 100 mistakes (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/days_mistakes_iqmvJLSvDfvUIxgNkYBrjM)

Did you read that garbage?

[Hinny]

Stalin helped shorten the war yes, well he had to make up for helping Germany early in the war didn't he?


Same applies to America...and not just at the start of the war.
WW2 would have been over a lot earlier if they had shown a bit more commitment to helping others rather than themselves.

I think it is fair to blame the actions of Pres. Bush snr as head of the CIA for a major influence in the creation of the conflict in Afghanistan.They funded and promoted the organisation known as Al Quaeda and the resulting civil war which eventually led to the overthrow of the democratically elected government. Add to that the firing of two cruise missiles into Kabul ten years ago and it is a case of chickens coming home to roost.
NZ should have nothing to do with it.
The imploration of US officials for Australia to increase its deployment of troops to Afghanistan must be linked to the performance of Obama as President. Are these the actions of a peacemaker?
Obama, like Bush and Clinton before him, was committing troops to armed conflicts before he was even sworn in. Hardly the actions of a peace prize winner I would have thought.

[OutForADuck]

No matter how much you like the guy (Obama) you have to think this is a little like immaculate conception... you know pregnant before a load has even beeb shot!!!!!

[SPman]

....the CIA for a major influence in the creation of the current conflict in Afghanistan.

Since when have the Pashtun in Afghanistan ever needed an excuse for a conflict.....

[SixPackBack]

Since when have the Pashtun in Afghanistan ever needed an excuse for a conflict.....

If ever a group deserved ethnic cleansing, they qualify.

[ready4whatever]

Damn i bet alot of yanks are pissed at that, white ones anyway. im pretty sure some skinheads are planing an assasination attempt

[Street Gerbil]

Damn i bet alot of yanks are pissed at that, white ones anyway. im pretty sure some skinheads are planing an assasination attempt
What for? He's just been awaded in advance a gold medal for a race he cannot possibly win. In most people's eyes he is a walking parody of the halo he has created for himself. Alive he has all the makings of Euripide's tragic hero about to experience a larger-than-life epic fail. Dead he'd become a martyr for radical left causes. Pissed off yanks understand that alive he is far less harmful than he would be dead, besides his presidency is becoming increasingly amusing to watch.

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/05/custom_1242929636250_NOSFFFFUUUUUUU.jpg">

-Indy