Appreciation of 250s in the next 2 decades.

[McWild]

I have to settle an argument.

What do you think will appreciate in value better over the next couple of decades?

A (well kept) 250cc 2 stroke twin, eg RGV250s, NSR250s

A (well kept) 250cc 4 stroke inline four, eg CBR250s, ZXR250s


Both are lightweight bikes that represent an era of over the top engineering by Japanese manufacturers to get as much hp into a road legal 250 as possible.

19,000rpm redlines and tiny cylinders or a complete middle finger to modern day emissions standards, fuel economy and reliability?

I'm positive that it's the 2 strokes whose value will skyrocket the most.


Go Kiwibiker! Battle!

[st00ji]

i voted for smokers

mainly cos they are faster, and die more easily (in general) so less of them surviving

being rare is a good way to gain in value!

[TuonoTom]

Where is the "put a rota in it" option?

[EJK]

Smokers are getting rare... Well certain models are! I mean look at the RGV250 "Pepsi", the coke brand is about to extinct too!

[McJim]

Ducati don't make 250cc bikes any more. Classic Japanese is an oxymoron.

An Aprilia RS250 might appreciate if it's kept under a dust sheet though.

[TuonoTom]

Ducati don't make 250cc bikes any more. Classic Japanese is an oxymoron.

An Aprilia RS250 might appreciate if it's kept under a dust sheet though.

The thread/pole isn't about which will be more classic. The pole is about which one will be worth more.

[ital916]

Ducati don't make 250cc bikes any more. Classic Japanese is an oxymoron.

An Aprilia RS250 might appreciate if it's kept under a dust sheet though.

I want this

mmmmm....250 desmo. Interstingly I believe there was a 350 and a 450 as well? Odd how they had 100cc increments.

I'd say two stroke 250s wont appreciate as much. Reason being, injected two strokes will be brought in. Everyone will realise riding a four stroke is gay and buy the modern two strokes, hence making old school four strokes a rarity.

[McJim]

The thread/pole isn't about which will be more classic. The pole is about which one will be worth more.

I know. I thought you might be bright enough to get what I was driving at but *sigh* I obviously need to explain it.

Classics are worth more in the future because they are *ahem* classic.

Inline four 250s were made to fit legislation in Japan and not for any other particular reason. 2 stroke 250s are meant to be little GP250 replicas but are generally owed by young hoons who rev the snot out of them and blow them up coz they skimped on the ring replacements and top end rebuilds.

An old Ducati 250 can still be worth a few bob in good nick but it's a single cyl bike with some real heritage behind it.

The answer is "It depends on the brand". The RS250 will appreciate in value but the japanese ones probably won't whether they are 2 smoke or 4.

[quickbuck]

Well, since the whole media climate change phenominion is happening then one of two things will happen... bare with me here.

ALL 2 strokes will be banned because of the smelly smoke they produce....
Never mind that 4 strokes produce more nasty stuff.
Science has never come into the climate change argument anyway....

Now the greenies might get their way and all 2 strokes will be crushed.

So... If you have one in your posession in the future you could be either very wealthy... or breaking the law, and thus a crim.

So a 2 stroke may be worthless!

My vote is for 2 strokes to be worth more though.

[TuonoTom]

Yeah it sucks being retarded. Thanks for the explanation McJim.

[p.dath]

20 years from now - I think there may be stronger emission controls, and just like they are looking at banning 2 strike outboard motors on boats, 2 stroke road bikes could be banned as well.

So that would only leave the off road market (like the track). That market is much smaller. So I think they could become almost worthless.

But 20 years is a long time.

[st00ji]

its retarded to think that banning 2 stroke stuff is going to make any measurable difference to world wide emissions, what a crock. which probably means that it will happen cos its bound to be easier to implement than something that will actually make a difference (if a difference even needs to be made!)

its also retarded to think that something wont become a classic just because it was made in japan, jesus the japs have been making better vehicles than the rest of the world for decades - only people with their head in the sands are still clinging to their 'only euro-trash is good' BS

[Dave-]

I know. I thought you might be bright enough to get what I was driving at but *sigh* I obviously need to explain it.

Classics are worth more in the future because they are *ahem* classic.

Inline four 250s were made to fit legislation in Japan and not for any other particular reason. 2 stroke 250s are meant to be little GP250 replicas but are generally owed by young hoons who rev the snot out of them and blow them up coz they skimped on the ring replacements and top end rebuilds.

An old Ducati 250 can still be worth a few bob in good nick but it's a single cyl bike with some real heritage behind it.

The answer is "It depends on the brand". The RS250 will appreciate in value but the japanese ones probably won't whether they are 2 smoke or 4.

but the RS250 is japanese...

you're saying that the "classicness" of a bike is dependent upon it's brand, or even the part of the world it was built in, which is rubbish.

the classicness of anything is dependant upon whatever it is, it's got nothing to do with geographical disposition of the factory it was made in, what sticker it has on the side, it'd make as much sense to say that only red bikes can be classic.

poor tom, I hardly blame him for not posting here.

edit: in my opinion it'll be the japanese 2 stroke twins that're worth the most, because of what Jim has said, young hoons, because they blow up there'll be few of them, and those that do last will be special because of the "young, dumb and full of cum" status the bikes have, young people bought them, young people crashed them, young people got sex because of them, what more could you want in nostalgia?

[McWild]

I'd say two stroke 250s wont appreciate as much. Reason being, injected two strokes will be brought in. Everyone will realise riding a four stroke is gay and buy the modern two strokes, hence making old school four strokes a rarity.

I agree that FI 2 strokes are the way of the future as they are at least as clean, lighter, cheaper to produce, and produce more power then 4 strokes.

But remember that an FI 2 stroke is very different to a classic 2 stroke. A lot of people find a certain appeal in a smoky, peaky, rough motor ringing its tits off and blowing itself up every once in a while.

[Harvd]

young people got sex because of them

hahahahaha but not mcwild bloody gingas

[TuonoTom]

I happen to remember a certain Classic JAPANESE bike show here in Christchurch earlier in the year. So many awesome bikes. Sure I like European bikes, but to say that a bike won't be a classic just because it's Japanese is just stupid.

[breakaway]

But remember that an FI 2 stroke is very different to a classic 2 stroke.

Really? How so?

[McWild]

Really? How so?

Well as the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, the oil is separated from the fuel and is used as a dedicated lubing system. This means none of the blue smoke puffing out the back, and not so much of the blowing up because the parts are getting properly lubed instead of the not very good fuel/oil mixture.
Fuel doesn't get thrown straight out the exhaust port either, which means a more emissions friendly bike.
From what I know they are also tuned to be less peaky and have powerbands more reminiscent of four strokes than classic two strokes.

There was a really good article on here a while ago about an Aprilia RS250 that had been fitted with a DI system. The sound was something between a four stroke and a two stroke.

Edit: Here's the article (I think): http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-strokes-strike-back/

[MSTRS]

Sure I like European bikes, but to say that a bike won't be a classic just because it's Japanese is just stupid.

Yep. Classics achieve that status because, for whatever reason, they catch the imagination of 'the people'. There are some truly horrible bikes out there, that are classics because of this. Just look at the Kawasaki triples...
It's anyone's guess what will be more 'desireable' out of 2/4 stroke 250s in years to come. So many variables. Crystal ball, anyone?

[crash harry]

Hmm... I'm going to buck the trend here and say 4 cylinder 250s might just appreciate more in the next 20 years. Partly because there's a whole generation of bikers in this country who are going to associate them with their first (or second) bike. For the people who learned to ride between about 1995 and 2005 or so, the little screamers, particularly the Honda and the Kwak, were farking popular. Getting a bit less so now because the newest of them are 10 years old and they're all a bit knackered now.

Having said that, it's going to be a matter of degrees, they'll both be classics of one sort or another in 10 to 20 years time...

[onearmedbandit]

Classic Japanese is an oxymoron.



Really? Care to clarify that some more? Or is it purely based on race?

[TuonoTom]

Well as the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, the oil is separated from the fuel and is used as a dedicated lubing system. This means none of the blue smoke puffing out the back, and not so much of the blowing up because the parts are getting properly lubed instead of the not very good fuel/oil mixture.
Fuel doesn't get thrown straight out the exhaust port either, which means a more emissions friendly bike.
From what I know they are also tuned to be less peaky and have powerbands more reminiscent of four strokes than classic two strokes.

There was a really good article on here a while ago about an Aprilia RS250 that had been fitted with a DI system. The sound was something between a four stroke and a two stroke.

Edit: Here's the article (I think): http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-strokes-strike-back/

Sounds fantastic doesn't it, a fuel injected two stroke that produces loads of power, is efficient and environmentally friendly. But if I'm buying a two stroke I want it to waste fuel and blow clouds of blue smoke, seems wrong for them not to really!

[gatch]

Vfr400's will be worth more, because they are awesome. YEs YEs.

But seriously I voted for the 2 strokes, everyone that isn't gay as fuck loves 2 strokes. How could you not ?

[chaos rider]

in 20 years 2:doobey::doobey: tokers will be museum relics

[gatch]

in 20 years 2:doobey::doobey: tokers will be museum relics

No no, I'll still be kickin around :shifty:

[OnCam]

i think the 90's will always be the best era for the 250 class to what ever comes next, manufacturers are getting soft with fuel effiency, flash styling softer on the ass and easier position for the rider.

i think the 2 stroke nsr rgv etc will increase in value, they are so iconic as a sport/race style bikes, the early 90's was the peak time for japanese production bikes and cars. We saw huge achievements with some monster cars being built with out of this world technology, bikes with new levels of performance and wow factor etc

in the big picture, cows, industrial, aerosols will have a much greater effect on any environmental change compared to 2 and 4 stroke japanese 250's or other bikes. Yes everyone is trying to reduce emmisions, but they need to apply a clean green image for sales and image of the company.

NZ is pretty lenient in emmision testing now compared to many countries that must comply with strict emmision testing, where cars must run a cat converter etc, here you can simply fit a full straight through exhaust no hassle, providing it doesnt bellow smoke under throttle application. emmisions are still there even if you cant see it!

[Dave-]

i think the 90's will always be the best era for the 250 class to what ever comes next, manufacturers are getting soft with fuel effiency, flash styling softer on the ass and easier position for the rider.

i think the 2 stroke nsr rgv etc will increase in value, they are so iconic as a sport/race style bikes, the early 90's was the peak time for japanese production bikes and cars. We saw huge achievements with some monster cars being built with out of this world technology, bikes with new levels of performance and wow factor etc

in the big picture, cows, industrial, aerosols will have a much greater effect on any environmental change compared to 2 and 4 stroke japanese 250's or other bikes. Yes everyone is trying to reduce emmisions, but they need to apply a clean green image for sales and image of the company.

NZ is pretty lenient in emmision testing now compared to many countries that must comply with strict emmision testing, where cars must run a cat converter etc, here you can simply fit a full straight through exhaust no hassle, providing it doesnt bellow smoke under throttle application. emmisions are still there even if you cant see it!

conservation of matter.

I've always wondered what happens to the "reduced" emissions by cat converters, probably gets buried in a landfill where it'll breakdown over the next millenia and release it's captured toxins anyway.

[mctshirt]

20 years from now - I think there may be stronger emission controls, and just like they are looking at banning 2 strike outboard motors on boats, 2 stroke road bikes could be banned as well.

3 strikes and you're out!

[Brian d marge]

I want this

mmmmm....250 desmo. Interstingly I believe there was a 350 and a 450 as well? Odd how they had 100cc increments.

I'd say two stroke 250s wont appreciate as much. Reason being, injected two strokes will be brought in. Everyone will realize riding a four stroke is gay and buy the modern two strokes, hence making old school four strokes a rarity.
I had a 239 tuned by John witman

green and white cams . twin plug

wrote the thing off on the way to a job interview !!!

Stephen

[nudemetalz]

Definitely believe that the Pepsi RGV250 will be a collectible machine in years to come, even 20 years.

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v677/turbo_NZ/?action=view&current=1989_RGV250K_Pepsi_400.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/turbo_NZ/1989_RGV250K_Pepsi_400.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

and the real thing...

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v677/turbo_NZ/?action=view&current=1989BIKE_sized.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/turbo_NZ/1989BIKE_sized.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Just try finding an original one now !!

[SPman]

Inline four 250s were made to fit legislation in Japan and not for any other particular reason. 2 stroke 250s are meant to be little GP250 replicas but are generally owed by young hoons who rev the snot out of them and blow them up coz they skimped on the ring replacements and top end rebuilds.

Consider that the 4 cyl 250's have similar outputs to the race 250/4's of the 60's.....

[Voltaire]

Depends how you measure value.
The Ducati 900 I bought in 1986 for $ 2700 Aus, is now worth about 7K NZ...
From a $$$ point of view the Z1000 I sold would have been a better financial investment.
However riding the Ducati with friends, listening to bellowing exhaust and whiring bevel gears is priceless.:woohoo::woohoo:
There will probably be no petrol in 20 years to run them on anyway...or have I been greenwashed.

[TuonoTom]

Well looks like I've been totally pwned here. Dam.

[Harvd]

Looking at the new acc levies i would say yes!

[manxy]

I love strokers, I've had a couple of 250's and a rz500, wish I'd kept that! Be worth a packet now.
I bought a 93 RGV a couple of years ago for 2.8k and have been offered up to 4.5k for it.
I keep it in good nick and don't put many k's on it because I know it's going up in value, alot more then the fours.
It's a bike for an hour on twisty roads, more fun through them and faster then a bigger bike.

[Brayden]

Holy thread dig batman

[avgas]

I'm going to say the 2-strokes will have it.
My explanation is "dragons teeth".

[Sable]

2 strokes. Nothing else like them, simple as that. Even if they do bring in DI 2 strokes, they will be a completely different beast.

[Asher]

Depends on what bikes you look at, the rs250's, rgv250 vj23, later models nsr250's will defiantly go up in value while some of the other (older) 2 strokes probably wont.
But i can imagine a few of the 4 strokes to go up in value too like the mc22 cbr250rr and pre 94 zxr's

[avgas]

Depends on what bikes you look at, the rs250's, rgv250 vj23, later models nsr250's will defiantly go up in value while some of the other (older) 2 strokes probably wont.
But i can imagine a few of the 4 strokes to go up in value too like the mc22 cbr250rr and pre 94 zxr's
Old RD250's haven't gone down in price since the 1987 Market crash. :wacko::blink:
TZ's are worth more than a new 250!
Don't even get me started about Bultaco's

[actungbaby]

yeah yeah

But that was 2009 orbital dont seem produced anything for the market in all years been going on
Apprently they had a deal with gm for cars

damm only 4 storke i need least 50 to get going hehe


Well as the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, the oil is separated from the fuel and is used as a dedicated lubing system. This means none of the blue smoke puffing out the back, and not so much of the blowing up because the parts are getting properly lubed instead of the not very good fuel/oil mixture.
Fuel doesn't get thrown straight out the exhaust port either, which means a more emissions friendly bike.
From what I know they are also tuned to be less peaky and have powerbands more reminiscent of four strokes than classic two strokes.

There was a really good article on here a while ago about an Aprilia RS250 that had been fitted with a DI system. The sound was something between a four stroke and a two stroke.

Edit: Here's the article (I think): http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-strokes-strike-back/

[actungbaby]

We all know what u do in the shed late at night


yeah yeah

But that was 2009 orbital dont seem produced anything for the market in all years been going on
Apprently they had a deal with gm for cars
and whats this about lube you dirty buggers


damm only 4 storke i need least 50 to get going hehe

[actungbaby]

Seriously how expensive is it to re build a ns 250 r crankshaft do they use plain bearings or rollers

Are they replacment aftermarket parts still availble for these machines ?


I think come down to machines that have more about them from the competion

I chosse a cb 250 rs vt 250 cbr 250 because of hondas gp exp with these motors back in the 60s

In 250 2 strokes maybe the kr 250 good and more rare rgv 250 suzuki or yam model as yamaha had great

Line of these Little beasts of many many years, but really if you love your bike from the past go for restore it




Depends on what bikes you look at, the rs250's, rgv250 vj23, later models nsr250's will defiantly go up in value while some of the other (older) 2 strokes probably wont.
But i can imagine a few of the 4 strokes to go up in value too like the mc22 cbr250rr and pre 94 zxr's

[Sable]

I think come down to machines that have more about them from the competion

I chosse a cb 250 rs vt 250 cbr 250 because of hondas gp exp with these motors back in the 60s

In 250 2 strokes maybe the kr 250 good and more rare rgv 250 suzuki or yam model as yamaha had great

Line of these Little beasts of many many years, but really if you love your bike from the past go for restore it

You really have no idea what you're on about, do you?

[GSF]

Consider that the 4 cyl 250's have similar outputs to the race 250/4's of the 60's.....

I realised this when my dad took my '92 Bandit 250 for a ride. And that's not even a hot CBR250RR, ZXR250 etc.

Keep in mind that he hasn't climbed on a bike since the mid 1970s, all the bikes he rode were old 300-500cc Brit thumpers, usually in varying states of disrepair. Since then he has had basically no contact with the motorcycling world.

Firstly he couldn't believe that liquid cooled 250cc inline fours were being mass produced. The smoothness of the engine and redline absolutely blew his mind (that's only 17,500rpm, don't the CBR250RRs hit the limiter at 19 grand?) and when he got back from a short ride he assured me that my bog-standard old Jap 250 would have been considered a crazy quick machine back in the day.

[winston]

my dad got me my scorpio. he sed it goes like the 350s of his day. but i have done a long way and it still hasnt broken down so i think he is wrong.

[imdying]

Seriously how expensive is it to re build a ns 250 r crankshaft do they use plain bearings or rollers

Are they replacment aftermarket parts still availble for these machines ?They're not, and they're easy to get. Same with RGVs. SP TZR cranks are a little harder, but the right people can help you out. No idea about the KR1S though. Fucked if I care, I don't use a factory crank :D

[george formby]

Over the next couple of decades their will not be many left of either so I think it is a moot point, one mans meat is another mans poison.

From my perspective (lotto win required) a 250 smoker will still give me a woody (hopefully) & make me part with cash in decades to come. A 4t, er, no. Only because I grew up when the only bike worth having was an RD 350. 10 years later & I would have a different opinion.
Will all be in the eye of the beholder.

[pritch]

Classic Japanese is an oxymoron.


Not according to the prices paid for the best examples... :whistle:

[onearmedbandit]

Classic Japanese is an oxymoron.



Only to the truly ignorant.

[bsasuper]

2/4 stroke 250/1000, it wont matter, what does is "the" bike ,eg hondas RC series, the RC30 is very sort after, and now the RC45, the RC51 not so sort after but the SP1 is getting there.The only 250 I can think of is another honda, that 6 cylinder job, the RC166