A question about staggered riding in a group

[Ms Piggy]

Today was the first time in ages (probably a few years actually) that I've been riding with a large group (50+ riders).

I know that we're meant to ride in a staggered formation - at times today I found it little confusing when riders in front of me would change their position on the road though and I wasn't sure if I should change my position to accommodate or stay where I was.

Sometimes the change in position would be because another rider had passed or the rider in front pulled out and joined back in further ahead. I just kept thinking if I change position then the rider behind me will have to as well and so on.

In the end I chose to stay in the same place - is this right or wrong? Any advice or tips?

This isn't a criticism of anyone btw.

[Ixion]

Staggered formation in large groups NOONE should be "pulling out" or "changing places".

That is the whole point of the formation. (not to mention that it stuffs up the parade).

Each person follows his wheelman. But, staggered. Only time anyone should deviate from that is if the road /corner is too narrow to permit more than one in line - then form into line ahead and revert to formation after the corner/constriction; or if signalled to break formation, or move up, by the Ride Captain or Pack Leader.

So, they were wrong, you were right.

[MSTRS]

But, Ixion, in reality, individuals dodging about does happen. The 'pack' must adjust to accommodate the changed dynamic.
MsP - you are perfectly entitled to stay where you are (and no-one behind needs to move either)...as long as you still have a 2+ sec gap to the rider in front, be they direct or staggered.

[DJSin]

I was in the same ride as you Ms Piggy - and I was wondering the same thing?

[Crasherfromwayback]

on riding in groups = don't do it.

[MSTRS]

on riding in groups = don't do it.

Races with one rider competing will be a little boring...

[rosie631]

on riding in groups = don't do it.

Not ones with 50+ bikes anyway. Way too big IMHO

[Crasherfromwayback]

Races with one rider competing will be a little boring...

Nah...Trials is great!


Not ones with 50+ bikes anyway. Way too big IMHO

Hell yeah...seen all sorts of bad shit in such rides/groups.

Riding with a few trusted riding mates is a very different kettle of fish to riding in a large group of people you don't know/trust.

Each to their own...but I very rarely do the 'group' thing.

[Ixion]

But, Ixion, in reality, individuals dodging about does happen. The 'pack' must adjust to accommodate the changed dynamic.
MsP - you are perfectly entitled to stay where you are (and no-one behind needs to move either)...as long as you still have a 2+ sec gap to the rider in front, be they direct or staggered.

Then y' need a Master at Arms. Then, it won't. How come that isn't in the new Group Ride Rules

[chanceyy]

agree Miss P as you know I was just in behind the leaders & a couple kept changing position or when a rider shot in front of me then I was out of "stagger" however I held my position just increased the distance a wee bit (as much as you could with such a slow ride) max speed at the front was 45ks.

I figured there was no point changing stagger just to keep correct formation esp as a few mins later I would have had to change back .. figured if the guys behind me knew where I was sitting it made it easier for everyone else ..(but then wot do I know, been told off for my "formation" riding previously & try to stay away from that now)

[Trudes]

on riding in groups = don't do it.

I'm with ya there Pete. I have done a few large group rides and charity rides etc and after the last one I went on I swore to never again. The riding I saw disgusted me and generally just made me angry and afraid for my life. Never again, no matter how good the cause. Grumpy over and out. ;)

[CookMySock]

Staggered formation in large groups NOONE should be "pulling out" or "changing places".It's just motorcycle riding - it doesn't need to be that regimented.

If you are bored where you are, then move. If you want a turn up front, go for it.

If you are bored with swapping left to right, then do either or neither for a while - it doesnt affect anyone, unless you are riding real tight, then rules must be abided by.

Geez its just a fucking stroll in the countryside - enjoy it and ride where you are happy, and if the others have a moan about it then ride with someone else.

Its not rocket science - It's motorcycle ride. Relax.

Steve

[OutForADuck]

Whether you agree with or disagree with staggered riding. It relies on eveyone knowing what to do and with large groups of riders, just like large groups of anything.. its like hearding cats.... forget the formation and just be safe and keep your wits about you.

[Laxi]

Staggered formation in large groups NOONE should be "pulling out" or "changing places".

That is the whole point of the formation. (not to mention that it stuffs up the parade).

Each person follows his wheelman. But, staggered. Only time anyone should deviate from that is if the road /corner is too narrow to permit more than one in line - then form into line ahead and revert to formation after the corner/constriction; or if signalled to break formation, or move up, by the Ride Captain or Pack Leader.

So, they were wrong, you were right.

got to the agree!the point of a staggered formation would be that you're all headed to the same place at a cruising speed, why would you pass? oh oh look at me i'm so fast:finger:

[Jantar]

It's just motorcycle riding - it doesn't need to be that regimented.

If you are bored where you are, then move. If you want a turn up front, go for it.

If you are bored with swapping left to right, then do either or neither for a while - it doesnt affect anyone, unless you are riding real tight, then rules must be abided by.

Geez its just a fucking stroll in the countryside - enjoy it and ride where you are happy, and if the others have a moan about it then ride with someone else.

Its not rocket science - It's motorcycle ride. Relax.

Steve

Once again, this poster is giving out advice that is blatantly dangerous. I would advise anyone reading posts from this person to disregard anything said unless backed up by someone competent. As can be seen in DBs signature this has only happened once in the whole time he's been on this site.

[sunhuntin]

I'm with ya there Pete. I have done a few large group rides and charity rides etc and after the last one I went on I swore to never again. The riding I saw disgusted me and generally just made me angry and afraid for my life. Never again, no matter how good the cause. Grumpy over and out. ;)

fully agreed. i used to do a charity ride each year that would sometimes have over 100 participants. the rules were read out before we would leave, and the rules would be ignored as soon as we hit the open road. i quickly learned to ride in the left column, as the right was too close to idiots passing on one wheel etc. i also disliked the fact that the final destination was a pub, and the ride back was often not the safest.

now i limit myself to funeral rides where i can be reasonably sure that the rules will be adhered to out of respect if nothing else.

[NighthawkNZ]

It's just motorcycle riding - it doesn't need to be that regimented.

If you are bored where you are, then move. If you want a turn up front, go for it.

If you are bored with swapping left to right, then do either or neither for a while - it doesnt affect anyone, unless you are riding real tight, then rules must be abided by.

Geez its just a fucking stroll in the countryside - enjoy it and ride where you are happy, and if the others have a moan about it then ride with someone else.

Its not rocket science - It's motorcycle ride. Relax.


You are kidding right... ???

[MadDuck]

It's just motorcycle riding - it doesn't need to be that regimented.

If you are bored where you are, then move. If you want a turn up front, go for it.

If you are bored with swapping left to right, then do either or neither for a while - it doesnt affect anyone, unless you are riding real tight, then rules must be abided by.

Geez its just a fucking stroll in the countryside - enjoy it and ride where you are happy, and if the others have a moan about it then ride with someone else.

Its not rocket science - It's motorcycle ride. Relax.

Steve


Once again, this poster is giving out advice that is blatantly dangerous. I would advise anyone reading posts from this person to disregard anything said unless backed up by someone competent. As can be seen in DBs signature this has only happened once in the whole time he's been on this site.

If this advice is considered "blatently dangerous" then why does it remain in a general forum for all to see?

[MSTRS]

You are kidding right... ???

The sad thing is - he's not. He seems to actually believe his own bullshit.
I'm with Jantar...and advise any/everyone reading it, to ignore DB's crap.

[MSTRS]

If this advice is considered "blatently dangerous" then why does it remain in a general forum for all to see?

You do remember what happened to the last mod with the balls to do that?

[Mom]

Once again, this poster is giving out advice that is blatantly dangerous. I would advise anyone reading posts from this person to disregard anything said unless backed up by someone competent. As can be seen in DBs signature this has only happened once in the whole time he's been on this site.

Dear God! I can not believe I just read that!

This man is the worst kind of troll.

[rosie631]

Once again, this poster is giving out advice that is blatantly dangerous. I would advise anyone reading posts from this person to disregard anything said unless backed up by someone competent. As can be seen in DBs signature this has only happened once in the whole time he's been on this site.

Agreed. If people followed his advice on a ride this size it would be mayhem.

[MadDuck]

You do remember what happened to the last mod with the balls to do that?

Ahhh yes I do! Fair comment.

[CookMySock]

Once again, this poster is giving out advice that is blatantly dangerous. I would advise anyone reading posts from this person to disregard anything said unless backed up by someone competent. As can be seen in DBs signature this has only happened once in the whole time he's been on this site.LOL. The technique Jantar is using to persuade you is called a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy">Logical Fallacy</a>. He appeals to your sense of logic, in that one instance of support for my opinion must mean there IS only one instance of it. Of course, such a blatant attempt carries no more weight than my opinion did to begin with.

If you cannot safely pass any person in your group, then there is something really wrong with the group thinking. There is no basis in logic or law for such a thing, except to allow the group safety so they do not need to look in their mirrors. This argument smacks in the face of the individualism that is the core of the biker ethic, and replaces it with with gang mentality "no one can get past us."

Think for yourself. Ride your own ride. Pass if it looks safe. Decide on the basis of logic.

edit: I just re-read the original post, and we are talking 50+ riders. I'll recant 50% of what I said - I have just been reading about small groups. My error. Doing what I suggested in 50+ riders is asking for trouble.

Steve

[MadDuck]

My error. Doing what I suggested in 50+ riders is asking for trouble.

Steve

No shit Batman!

There are those of us who dont hit the "red bling" button as quickly as you do as we have the ability to discuss and agree or disagree without hiding behind the bling system and its nasty comments.

[Virago]

...Think for yourself. Ride your own ride. Pass if it looks safe. Decide on the basis of logic...

As always, you are entitled to express your opinions, no matter how dangerous or idiotic your advice.

For the Moderators, the frustration lies in having to respond to your constant whining, when you receive abuse which you so richly deserve.

The fact remains that you are a menace to society.

[Maha]

As always, you are entitled to express your opinions, no matter how dangerous or idiotic your advice.

For the Moderators, the frustration lies in having to respond to your constant whining, when you receive abuse which you so richly deserve.

The fact remains that you are a menace to society.

:killingme:killingme what can I say but ...:clap:

[rosie631]

My error. Doing what I suggested in 50+ riders is asking for trouble.

Steve

What we said lol

[scumdog]

LOL. The technique Jantar is using to persuade you is called a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy">Logical Fallacy</a>. He appeals to your sense of logic, in that one instance of support for my opinion must mean there IS only one instance of it. Of course, such a blatant attempt carries no more weight than my opinion did to begin with.

If you cannot safely pass any person in your group, then there is something really wrong with the group thinking. There is no basis in logic or law for such a thing, except to allow the group safety so they do not need to look in their mirrors. This argument smacks in the face of the individualism that is the core of the biker ethic, and replaces it with with gang mentality "no one can get past us."

Think for yourself. Ride your own ride. Pass if it looks safe. Decide on the basis of logic.

edit: I just re-read the original post, and we are talking 50+ riders. I'll recant 50% of what I said - I have just been reading about small groups. My error. Doing what I suggested in 50+ riders is asking for trouble.

Steve


Hmm, hopefully you don't have to 'edit' your decisions constantly while riding and overtaking etc....that you in fact read the info correctly before you act.


Mis-reading a car is stopping/turning when it's unexpected can lead to tears...

[sinfull]

Once again, this poster is giving out advice that is blatantly dangerous. I would advise anyone reading posts from this person to disregard anything said unless backed up by someone competent. As can be seen in DBs signature this has only happened once in the whole time he's been on this site. And It's now a sig !! Watch this space !!!


You are kidding right... ???


If this advice is considered "blatently dangerous" then why does it remain in a general forum for all to see?
Hello !!!

The sad thing is - he's not. He seems to actually believe his own bullshit.
I'm with Jantar...and advise any/everyone reading it, to ignore DB's crap. But read it !!


LOL. The technique Jantar is using to persuade you is called a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy">Logical Fallacy</a>. He appeals to your sense of logic, in that one instance of support for my opinion must mean there IS only one instance of it. Of course, such a blatant attempt carries no more weight than my opinion did to begin with.

If you cannot safely pass any person in your group, then there is something really wrong with the group thinking. There is no basis in logic or law for such a thing, except to allow the group safety so they do not need to look in their mirrors. This argument smacks in the face of the individualism that is the core of the biker ethic, and replaces it with with gang mentality "no one can get past us."
Think for yourself. Ride your own ride. Pass if it looks safe. Decide on the basis of logic.

edit: I just re-read the original post, and we are talking 50+ riders. I'll recant 50% of what I said - I have just been reading about small groups. My error. Doing what I suggested in 50+ riders is asking for trouble.Steve You keep reading mate, reading is good ! Typing is something you should leave to others !!!

Woooo just seen you on TV, you warlock you !!! Biggest wee wee programe i've seen in ages !

Cmon, wheres all my red rep, you fags. I expected a fucking sea of it by now. You're slipping. ;)

SteveHahaha Steve Steve Steve you should have been there with us today, you individuallistic attitude would have found you riding alone !

[Skyryder]

If ya going to ride in a large group there will always be someone who will never be content where they are in the pack............in most cases more than one and reflects their attitude to life. Not a bad thing but when done without due consideration to others...............like I said is their reflection of life.

Ya take ya chances when you ride two wheels............and the same in a group.

If neither is acceptable don't do one or both.


Skyryder

[CookMySock]

There are those of us who dont hit the "red bling" button as quickly as you do as we have the ability to discuss and agree or disagree without hiding behind the bling system and its nasty comments.You infer I red rep constantly, but you present no evidence. You also infer I have no ability to discuss, agree, or disagree, when it is more you who resorts to a put down when you can't win. Re-read. ;)


As always, you are entitled to express your opinions, no matter how dangerous or idiotic your advice.

For the Moderators, the frustration lies in having to respond to your constant whining, when you receive abuse which you so richly deserve.

The fact remains that you are a menace to society.Hehe, your put downs are irrelevant to me. If moderators don't like their job, they should quit and go do something else. I submit it is more people like you who is a menace to society - belittling others as they exercise their freedoms, not that your caustic opinion affects me in the slightest. :yawn:


Hmm, hopefully you don't have to 'edit' your decisions constantly while riding and overtaking etc....that you in fact read the info correctly before you act.I sure do. I constantly check and re-check my decisions, to make sure they are based on fact and not just what I believe, as I did here. There are plenty of times I eat my words, as I do here, and there are plenty of times I will revise a previously carefully-laid plan, because it turns out to be crap.

Yup, I was on the wrong track. Thats it plain and simple. Perhaps you never do this? Or maybe just never admit it. ;)

Steve

[MSTRS]

Mis-reading a car is stopping/turning when it's unexpected can lead to tears...

You don't say? Are you suggesting when one makes a monumental fuckup, that one can't go back and do it different?
Thank goodness for the Internet...I've learned a valuable lesson. It'll all be so easy now.
:innocent:

[FJRider]

Hmm, hopefully you don't have to 'edit' your decisions constantly while riding and overtaking etc....that you in fact read the info correctly before you act.


Mis-reading a car is stopping/turning when it's unexpected can lead to tears...

Constant "editing" your riding style/decisions, on rides ... depending on changing circumstances found on that ride ...should be normal....

"Miss-reading" a car stopping/turning requires rapid "editing" .... not to be discouraged ....

[imdying]

Left, right, doesn't matter... if you're following close enough for it to matter, then you're an idiot anyway.

[AD345]

I ride in staggered formations a lot. With a group of friends who know each other well it can be a very enjoyable way to travel together at a good clip.

With a larger group of mostly strangers it can be problematic, particularly if you are on your own. If possible it's best to ride within a sub-group of the larger group, friends in other words. Thats how we approach rides like the Westpac run or the HA run (coming soon!).

If you are alone a reasonable practice is to follow the suggestion of another poster and keep in the left hand column, even if it means you aren't always perfectly in stagger due to others around you wobbling about.

Is it looks like it is becoming chaotic either bail or, as I've done, stick in the middle of the lane and increase your following distance from the closest rider - whatever side of the lane they are in.

[sinfull]

You infer I red rep constantly, but you present no evidence. You also infer I have no ability to discuss, agree, or disagree, when it is more you who resorts to a put down when you can't win. Re-read. ;)

Jeeesus wept !!! You were my first red rep ! Man, I wanted to give you welts you would never heal from !!!
You red repped so many, they stalked you !
Then, when those you red repped came after you, you ran to the mods and cryed that you were being bullied, which you were !
The poor Mods had to protect you, when in reality they wanted to shove a batton up your arse and make you cry !


Hehe, your put downs are irrelevant to me. If moderators don't like their job, they should quit and go do something else. I submit it is more people like you who is a menace to society - belittling others as they exercise their freedoms, not that your caustic opinion affects me in the slightest. :yawn:
Hands him a batton !



I sure do. I constantly check and re-check my decisions, to make sure they are based on fact and not just what I believe, as I did here. There are plenty of times I eat my words, as I do here, and there are plenty of times I will revise a previously carefully-laid plan, because it turns out to be crap.

Yup, I was on the wrong track. Thats it plain and simple. Perhaps you never do this? Or maybe just never admit it. ;)

Steve Do you ever learn by your mistakes Steve ?
Time and time and time again i see you make silly, no, absolute stupid comments to which i face palm, which i'm sure many others do also ! But i fear, not many are keen to remind you how stupid you are making yourself look on here !!!
I wonder if it has something to do with the trouble we brought down on ourselves from the moderators, who were forced to act if we were to give you a piece of our mind !
I look above and feel for the Mod who was forced to act, when i and many others tore a strip off your ignorant arse, who now must hang and prolly shake his head, when you belittle him with no fuggin idea at all !!!

Your a fool !!

[davereid]

Ya take ya chances when you ride two wheels............and the same in a group.If neither is acceptable don't do one or both.Skyryder

I used to think that I always rode on my own as riding in groups was just unsafe.

But my mates say nah, its because you are a cunt.

[Conquiztador]

Staggered riding works where there are rules. Often used in a parade. Also by clubs that ride together often where there is a clear ranking and nobody will pass. (No need to, as often the speed kept is more than enough for all...). Makes the bikes able to ride closer and personally I have never been passed by a car or "outsiders" while riding staggered.

The big "fun runs" are a problem as you will always have hotheads that want to show of. If I ride in one of them I always make sure I am last. If a late comer creeps up on me I wave him/her past so I am last again.

Re the initial question:
- Leave enough space to the one in front of you.
- Keep to the left.
- Keep one eye on the mirrors!
- Ride your own ride.
- When it gets messy leave!