Battery, Robbery, etc: Quidnunc Required

[vifferman]

AlrightyThen, KB Know-It-Alls; riddle me this.

My battery (a Chinee copy of a Yuasa) is about 14-15 months old. Last week I had problems with it not having enough ergs to start the bike. Prior to this, it had never run flat or been troublesome.
My usual riding is 20-30 minutes most weekdays each morning and afternoon.
The R/R is fine - putting out 14.8ishvolts when it should.
The resting drain is around 1.0millipedes, which is less than the CauseForAlarmAndConstipation (1.2ish).

Anyway... I stuck it on the battery charger a couple of times last week, and left it on it over the weekend. Last night, after I disconnected the charger, it was reading 13.summat Zolts. This morning it was down to 12.5ish, maybe 12.6ish. The bike started well.

Even though I have a Workshop Manuel (I'm not sure if he's Portugese, SPanish, or SarfMrkn), it's kinda coy about what the resting voltage should be.

I'm not sure if my battery is Knackered, or if it's just slowly wound down because it doesn't get enough winding up time. I've ordered a new one (a proper one this time), but my Scottish Ants Cess Tree makes me somewaht loath to part with my wife's hard-earned cash iffen it's not absoultely necessary.

So what say the KB Hex Spurts?
Should I put up a pole or a poll, and do this properly?

[YellowDog]

It's Chinese and last lasted 14 months.

Sounds like a good result to me!

I don't ride the Tiger everyday and keep my battery on a conditioner.

Maybe this would be a simple solution for you.

Also, if you are going to charge your battery, give it a full over night charge.

[vifferman]

It's Chinese and last lasted 14 months.

Sounds like a good result to me!

Perhaps. That's what I wanted to know. Previous batteries (Yuasa) have lasted up to 6 years, despite being abused. I expected more from this one, as I was told, "It's as good as a Yuasa, and it's what we're fitting to all the bikes, and it has a warranty" (3 months, IIRC).



Also, if you are going to charge your battery, give it a full over night charge.
It's had two or three overnighters, and another for most of the weekend, on a smart charger.

Thinking back, I don't think this battery's been very good, ever. I ordered it, and wasn't told it wasn't a Yuasa till I went to pick it up. Although it's low-maintenance, the same size, and ostensibly the same as a YTX12-BS, it's not the same quality (but was about half the price).

[YellowDog]

OK - So it is indeed Faarked.

I have had good experiences with Yuasa too.

[u4ea]

regulator/rectifier...:crazy: who knows? I am blonde

[kwaka_crasher]

Last night, after I disconnected the charger, it was reading 13.summat Zolts. This morning it was down to 12.5ish, maybe 12.6ish. The bike started well.

Even though I have a Workshop Manuel (I'm not sure if he's Portugese, SPanish, or SarfMrkn), it's kinda coy about what the resting voltage should be.

I'm not sure if my battery is Knackered, or if it's just slowly wound down because it doesn't get enough winding up time. I've ordered a new one (a proper one this time), but my Scottish Ants Cess Tree makes me somewaht loath to part with my wife's hard-earned cash iffen it's not absoultely necessary.

So what say the KB Hex Spurts?
Should I put up a pole or a poll, and do this properly?

Get it load tested to determine it's capacity. Any decent auto electrician will do it for free or you can just measure the voltage across the battery terminals while cranking without actually starting (disable the ignition). It should hold above about 10V - anything below that and the battery internal resistance is too high meaning it's getting knackered. Limit the cranking to 15-20 sec at a time. The 13V you measured after charging is likely just a surface charge.

[Paul in NZ]

Either that or get a small hydrometer and learn about specific gravities ;-)

[CookMySock]

Check your stator and make sure it hasn't lost one phase.. that will cripple it heavily, but let it charge just enough to make you think it's fine. Had this problem with my bike.

Steve

[Pedrostt500]

Alot of stuff is made in china and branded by non chinese companies,

This is a battery test we used to perform,
you will need
Battery charger
Distilled water
Multi Meter
100 watt halogen bulb
2 small jump cables, make these up with 4 small aligator clips, and 2 peices of wire 8 to 12" long.

Procedure
Check water level in battery and top up as required, charge battery, preferably on a trickel charge, once battery is fully charged take off charger,
test the battery voltage with the multi meter, should be reading between 13 and 14 volts, connect halogen bulb to the battery with your 2 jump cables, the bulb will get hot fast, so take nessasary precautions, test the battery voltage with multi meter, keep check on the voltage drop, it will drop rapidly at first, then start to slow, if the battery is good the voltage will plato above 12.5 volts, it may also incress slightly after it platos.
If the voltage platos below 12.5 volts but above 12 volts then its time to think about replacing the battery, if it just keeps dropping well down past 12 volts then buy a new battery.

If your battery has been in storage for some time, and tests below 12.5 volts some time a few hard charges and discharges can bring it back to life, though I would be more inclined to replace the battery, than be made to have a long walk because of a dud battery.

If you are storing a battery it is best to keep it fully charged, and give it a top up charge every few months.

You can kill a battery by excessive over charging, ie leaving the battery on charge for a week, try not to leave a battery on charge for more than 24 hours, 8 hours should be suffeciant in most casses.

[cs363]

^^^^ What he said x2 :D

[kwaka_crasher]

connect halogen bulb to the battery with your 2 jump cables, the bulb will get hot fast, so take nessasary precautions, test the battery voltage with multi meter, keep check on the voltage drop, it will drop rapidly at first, then start to slow, if the battery is good the voltage will plato above 12.5 volts, it may also incress slightly after it platos.
If the voltage platos below 12.5 volts but above 12 volts then its time to think about replacing the battery, if it just keeps dropping well down past 12 volts then buy a new battery.

That's a lot more more work to do and won't yield any information worth knowing about a starting battery that needs to maintain it's voltage with the heavy draw of a specific starter (a decent YB12 is over 120CCA) not just a steady pissy little 5A. Especially when he already has a suitable test load, that load which the battery was actually specified for... the starter...

[Dafe]

If your charge voltage is too high and you leave in connected for days, you'll get Gassing. You'll end up with less electrolyte after the Hydrogen/Oxygen gas separation and then there is even more excessive charging happening to the lesser amount of electrolyte remaining. Be careful, Gassing can become highly explosive when an excess of 4% hydrogen is reached.

On the other hand, you may be undercharging. You may have created a memory effect (A new max charge threshold) which will greatly reduce your batteries current capacity output, if your chargers voltage is well below 13.8Vdc. This will cause a sulpher build up on your batteries plates. This build up will reduce the surface area available for the electro-chemical reactions required for the battery charging process, making it less efficient.

In short, Replace your battery now, But make sure you check: Is there plenty of electrolyte in your bike and are you charging at the correct voltage? Is your alternator putting out the correct voltage? Look on the battery manufacturers website to identify the correct charging voltages.

[vifferman]

Thanks for all the advice, but you guys need to read previous posts better.
There is nothing wrong with my stator output or R/R, Steve. Just because your Hyosung dropped one stator coil, doesn't mean every bike in the world has a propensity to do that. I'm getting EXACTLY the factory recommended output, so it's all good.

My charger is a smart charger - it's not whacking in great gobs of voltage after the initial charge - just drops into "storage" mode.
I checked the battery voltage last night after I arrived home - around 12.7V. This morning I checked the battery voltage after sitting overnight, and it's 12.5.

Load testing - forgot about this. Bugger using a bulb and alligator clips - turning the headlights on is an approved method I'd forgotten about. Mentions it in one of our Peugeot workshop manuals. I could do the same - the two headlights are 110W, so near enough to the 100W bulb anyway. Using the starter is more problematic - the kill switch disables ignition, but also the starter, and there's no easy and safe way to enable the starter but not the ignition.

Topping up the battery - it's a 'maintenance free', so it's not recommended to go prising caps off, and I'm not about to do that. One thing I noticed when I got the battery is the fillers that came with it seemed a bit short of acid, and weren't exactly even. I suspect that's part of the problem, and the hot location for the battery box doesn't help something that's not really made for the electrical demands of the VFR.

Pedrostt500 - you raise a very good point. Apart from jumping the VFR off a car or other vehicle, I'm farkt if the battery goes flat. Bump starting is not really a good option, due to the electric fuel pump and 17 gazillion other electrically powered doodads.

Thanks again guys for all the helpful feedback. I'll check the zolts tonight, perhaps load-test it, or maybe I'll do that after a ride tomorrow, then stick it back on the charger. Like I said, the new battery's ordered, and approved by the WifeAccountantPorcupinePillionist, so this testing's really just to reassure me that it's OK to throw away a battery that still seems new.

[Pussy]

Battery sounds like it's rooted. Get a new one

[kwaka_crasher]

Using the starter is more problematic - the kill switch disables ignition, but also the starter, and there's no easy and safe way to enable the starter but not the ignition.

Plenty of easy ways:

Remove ignition fuse.
Disconnect ICM.
Disconnect pulse generator.
Disconnect fuel pump.
Apply 12V to starter solenoid signal wire with ignition switched off.

[bsasuper]

Its only this spell of cold weather.

[Paul in NZ]

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html

[Mom]

and it has a warranty" (3 months, IIRC).


Hope it was super cheap :yes:

Doesn't this sort of thing piss you right off?

[AllanB]

Chap I know killed a factory fitted Honda battery (an expensive one) in 2 years on a CB1300. Pretty sure it was a result of the short runs to and from work it was getting and it did not get a frequent enough long blast to recover.

[Pedrostt500]

Lead Acid batteries have so many charges discharges before they end their lives, short runs with lots of engine starts will kill a battery quicker, than longer runs, it takes a vechicles altenator a reasonable time to recharge a battery after a start, and longer if you are running lights & other instraments.

Sealed Lead acid and Gell Cell batteries have a small valve built into the battery so that if the battery does not over pressurise if the battery is over charged, or run hot, I have seen Gel Cell batteries baloon because they have been excessivly over charged, they have allmost ended up ball shaped.
I used to service mobility scooters, electric golf caddies, and other battery powered devices, that used Lead Acid and Gell Cell batteries, our biggest problem was people excesivly overcharging batteries, even a battery charger on trickel charge can over charge a battery.
I have been happily back on the Tools in Engineering for the last 4 yrs.

[vifferman]

I testicled it last night - turned on the headlights for about a minute to see what I could see. Turned out, my gargre is messy'n'dirty, and has a pool of coolant where #2Son's FrenchHeap'o'Shite parks.
Any Wayne, the numbers went down to about 12.3 thingies, then when I turned the lights (and fan, and fuel pump, and everything else that runs when the key's on) off, it slowly climbed, a hundredthdthdth of a zolt at a time, back towards 12.5. Ish.

Interesting (or perhaps not) that my short 20-30 minute commutes may be killing it. My VF500, with your tradiitonal non-low-maintenance battery, lasted over 6 years (SIX YEARS!!) despite being run flat several times, and mostly being used only for communtering. The only care I gave it was to use only distilled water when topping it up.
I still reckon it's inferior quality 'bits' (lead recycled from electronics held over a small fire, suplphuric acid derived from industrial waste, and that horrible smelly plastic everything in the Wharehouse seems to be made from) that's at fault. That and the Dodgy Prick who supplied me the Koyo when I asked for a Yuasa. :Pokey:

[boman]

Get a Hydrometer, made for motorcycle batteries, check the Specific Gravity of each cell in the battery. All it takes is small short in one cell, and you have a 10Volt battery. Good for fark all.

The specific gravity, is the charge of the Electrolyte (acid+water) in each cell. They should all be even with very little fluctuation in each cell. Cheaper batteries, lead plates inside the battery case, are not as robust as the quality batteries, therefore quite aften the lead will drop off the plates more readily and cause a short.(IIRC It has been a couple of years since I had to Know this stuff.

[vifferman]

Get a Hydrometer, made for motorcycle batteries, check the Specific Gravity of each cell in the battery. All it takes is small short in one cell, and you have a 10Volt battery. Good for fark all.
Sealed batery. The Man says it's dangerous to open them, and I will die, explode into flames, and die some more. :rolleyes:
It's not a shorted cell - the readings would be around 10.5V if that was the case.


The specific gravity, is the charge of the Electrolyte (acid+water) in each cell. They should all be even with very little fluctuation in each cell. Cheaper batteries, lead plates inside the battery case, are not as robust as the quality batteries, therefore quite aften the lead will drop off the plates more readily and cause a short.(IIRC It has been a couple of years since I had to Know this stuff.
Apparently, it's heat'n'stuff that causes the lead sulfate complex to drop off the plates, and (because it's electrcally conductive), it allows the little electrical greeblies (which are like ants only blue and silver) to migrate between the plates on the crusty bridges, and have elegant little soirees (thney don't do wild parties, coz the landlord will evict them).

Did I tell you I did 3 years of university chemistry? Did all the chemistries available excepting for radiochem? And some fizzix.
Fancy that.
No, actually I don't really...

Man/God/Woman/Norblat, the Troll of Snot - this thread is getting like, SO boring.
I wish my farking battery would hurry up and arrive.
It's (for any one that gives the rectum of a rodent) an AGM, 14Ah, and much cheaper'n a Yuasa. (Standard Yuasa is 10Ah, and maintenance free. Comparable Yuasa is around three (3!) times the price.