Goodridge Kevlar lines in NZ?

[gavinnz]

Anyone know a supplier of Goodridge Kevlar brake lines with aluminum fittings here in New Zealand?
Gavin

[vifferman]

Hey! I've got a really, REALLY great idea! :clap:
Go to Google, choose "sites in NZ" and type in "goodridge brake lines"
You might get summat like this (http://www.fortyone.co.nz/parts/show/1957/Goodridge/Brake%20Lines.html).
It might even be easier than posting on here and waiting for replies. :confused:

[gavinnz]

Hey! I've got a really, REALLY great idea! :clap:
Go to Google, choose "sites in NZ" and type in "goodridge brake lines"
You might get summat like this (http://www.fortyone.co.nz/parts/show/1957/Goodridge/Brake%20Lines.html).
It might even be easier than posting on here and waiting for replies. :confused:
Do I detect some attitude their to a fair question?

I have in fact done extensive goggling on the subject.
And found nothing of use....

The site you sent is a car only site that does not mention Kevlar brake lines.... I want a supplier of MOTORCYCLE KEVLAR brake lines in NZ.

Anyone know of a place that will do that??
Regards
Gavin

[imdying]

Ask Alert Motorsport.

[gavinnz]

Ask Alert Motorsport.
Thanks for that tip. :)
They only do HEL lines that do not use kevlar lines or alumiunm fittings.
I might end up having to find a Goodridge dealer in the UK... which I have tried already and sent a couple of e-mails about buying the kit I need but have had no reply from them.
Regards
Gavin

[vifferman]

I have in fact done extensive goggling on the subject.
And found nothing of use....

The site you sent is a car only site that does not mention Kevlar brake lines.... I want a supplier of MOTORCYCLE KEVLAR brake lines in NZ.
My apologies.
Frustrating, innit?

[gavinnz]

My apologies.
Frustrating, innit?
All good mate. :)
Maybe we should start beinging them in and sellng them!
lol
Regards
Gavin

[imdying]

Thanks for that tip. :)
They only do HEL lines that do not use kevlar lines or alumiunm fittings.
I might end up having to find a Goodridge dealer in the UK... which I have tried already and sent a couple of e-mails about buying the kit I need but have had no reply from them.
Regards
Gavin
There's nothing special about Goodridge, except a nice range of fittings.

If you believe HEL, you don't want kevlar lines (http://www.helperformance.com/info/kevlar-lines.htm) or aluminum fittings (http://www.h-e-l.co.uk/info/aluminium-fittings.htm) are the last thing you want :rolleyes:

[F5 Dave]

Ally fittings aren't legal in NZ for roaduse I believe. I can see why I have some broken ones downstairs of an Auss bike. Hel make good lines & Alert seem very reasonable when I've got stuff made up.

[imdying]

What makes you believe that?

[gavinnz]

There's nothing special about Goodridge, except a nice range of fittings.

If you believe HEL, you don't want kevlar lines (http://www.helperformance.com/info/kevlar-lines.htm) or aluminum fittings (http://www.h-e-l.co.uk/info/aluminium-fittings.htm) are the last thing you want :rolleyes:
I had read the Hel site also and I smell a rat when it comes to the comments about aliminum fittings in brake lines and dissimlar metals... I figure the calipers and master cylinders are aluminum so whats the issue? You could use a ali crush washer and you have ALL the same metals... hence no battery corosion effect?
I could see more of an issue if low quality aluminum was used...
I could also see how they would not take abuse like a steel fitting so you would have to be more careful around them.

As for the Kevlar line degrading in UV light... how many of us would fit expensive super light brake lines to a bike that was going to spend any real time in the sun?? More likley used, then under a cover in a dark shed.

So in closing I dispute Hels findings as marketing.
Goodridge is a good company and I am sure they have done their homework on these and they stand behind them..... now I wish they would just answer the questions I asked them about buying lines!!

Regards
Gavin

[imdying]

You're not the first person to come to that conclusion either.

[F5 Dave]

What makes you believe that?

I said I believe, I didn't say that I wasn't delusional:crazy:.

I might have to rescind that comment. I've seen ally fitting cables not pass WOFs, but that could equally be as they didn't have the correct DOT or equiv label. I had thought that someone at VINZ had said that ally fittings weren't ok, but that may be a case of the above.

Having said that I bet that on a bike with the forks whipping up & down the steel braided lines are likely putting some stress on those fittings. Steel is a wonder material in that it can cope where ally fatigues far earlier. As I said after seeing the cracks in the ally fittings I have I wouldn't use them & I'm a weight obsessive on some of my bikes.

[imdying]

I said I believe, I didn't say that I wasn't delusional:crazy:. Yeah, I know, that's why I asked why you believe it.


I might have to rescind that comment. I've seen ally fitting cables not pass WOFs, but that could equally be as they didn't have the correct DOT or equiv label.Probably screw together fittings, they're not legal at all.


Having said that I bet that on a bike with the forks whipping up & down the steel braided lines are likely putting some stress on those fittings. Steel is a wonder material in that it can cope where ally fatigues far earlier.Basically, they're aircraft tech, and not really suitable for road vehicles at all. When the inner liner on a rubber hose gets punctured for some reason, the outer rubber sleeve will hole the pressure, even at over 3000psi it just swells up. When the inner liner on a braided lines gets punctured, total loss of braking system occurs. I can make braided lines for free, and I don't run any on any of my vehicles. Basically on an aircraft they do xxx hours, and get replaced, but never on road vehicles.

[vifferman]

Having had braided lines on my last bike (actually the reason I made my first post on KB!), I dunno if I'd bother again. They look kewl, and may be lighter, but the feel is rather wooden (depending on brand - I found the HEL ones worse than the BSR Aerotek ones they replaced).

[imdying]

Most people equate the solid feel as being 'better'. If that gives them a psychological advantage then more power to them. But I also dislike the wooden feel they give.

On the race track lowered expansion can be beneficial, but that's some mighty hard braking on a constant basis, to get that benefit.

[F5 Dave]

Really I think it depends on the hydraulic ratio one starts with. Old Yams like the XJ750 cop bikes spring to mind. They had very mushy feeling brakes. Put braided lines on them & they were like solid. Squeeze a breeze-brick. Yueck! However std rubber lines are getting better & stiffer so braided lines aren't such a change. I think they used to engineer in a shallow ratio to make up for the flex in the lines.

However rubber lines do deteriorate. Manufacturers often had "replace every 2 years" on service manuals, but no one in Christendom ever did replace with std. I've had a couple of old dirtbikes that I bought that I just couldn't get a reasonable feel from the lever until I fitted a (covered) braided line. Obviously the rubber ones were knackered. Perhaps as you suggest with an inner failure? Never considered that. I assumed they broke down with UV or summit.

I like my rear brakes spooongy so leave them on, but I prefer braided on sportsbikes, esp when I am pushing the envelope with a smaller master cylinder for more ratio. But I've also kept std rubber lines where they have been performing fine.

So presumably you can make new rubber lines up? Never heard of this service, I suppose it is common in automotive?

[Cajun]

So presumably you can make new rubber lines up? Never heard of this service, I suppose it is common in automotive?

I got new rubber hoses made up last year. locally, they are low expansion rubber hoses, Service manual said replace lines at 4 years.

Cost me under $100 for the hoses to be made up. thats well under half the price of braided for same bike (i had a bit of input from imdying, with some questions i had, before i got these made)

I personally not a fan of braided either, from the feel. I also changed the way it was setup, normal one line from m/c to caliper then another line across to other caliper, but changed them around and did 2 lines, from m/c to each caliper.

[sugilite]

Yep, I prefer the extra feel that rubber lines offer. Even on the track. On the 750, I had to do a lot of hard braking to beat the methanol big bore monsters in 06. I really relied on the extra feel, more than out right power when braking right to the apex, hard to imagine anyone needing the extra power over feel on the street....different strokes for different folks I guess.

[vifferman]

Cost me under $100 for the hoses to be made up. thats well under half the price of braided for same bike (i had a bit of input from imdying, with some questions i had, before i got these made)

That's pretty cheap! Also a lot cheaper'n OEM ones would be.


I also changed the way it was setup, normal one line from m/c to caliper then another line across to other caliper, but changed them around and did 2 lines, from m/c to each caliper.
The reason I did it on the VTR (apart from it being de rigeur to have them) was the crappy standard setup. Feel of the OEM ones was OK when they were bled properly, but they had one line from the m/c, which split into two bu the front mudguard, with one line going up over the wheel. This was very hard to bleed properly without a vacuum pump, so bubbles accumulated there, making the brakes VERY spongey. The braided lines were doubled up from the m/c, so each could be bled on its own, and there was nowhere for bubbles to hide. As I posted before, the feel was much better in some ways, but wooden.

[Cajun]

That's pretty cheap! Also a lot cheaper'n OEM ones would be.

The reason I did it on the VTR (apart from it being de rigeur to have them) was the crappy standard setup. Feel of the OEM ones was OK when they were bled properly, but they had one line from the m/c, which split into two bu the front mudguard, with one line going up over the wheel. This was very hard to bleed properly without a vacuum pump, so bubbles accumulated there, making the brakes VERY spongey. The braided lines were doubled up from the m/c, so each could be bled on its own, and there was nowhere for bubbles to hide. As I posted before, the feel was much better in some ways, but wooden.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=61152 <-- thread about when i made them up (note pictures been removed, but i am sure i can find them and load them up again if need be)

[imdying]

Brake bleeding is one of those black arts, mostly because it's very hard to see what's going wrong when you're having no luck at it.

There are however a number of techniques you can use before resorting to pressure or vacuum bleeders. Poor bleeding is the number one cause of spongy motorcycle brakes. People swear that they've bled them properly, but I've managed to fix more than a couple of bikes without spending any money on parts.

It's worth going to a bike shop and giving the lever on a new sportsbike a squeeze... lovely solid as you like brakes with rubber lines. Sure they degrade, and yes you should replace them on a semi regular basis.

It's all off topic though. Goodridge have been in the game for years, if I were looking for braided lines and they were accessible and reasonably priced, I would use them.

It's unlikely you will ever have a problem with a quality braided line on the street, but follow some sensible rules: Maintain your brakes well
- clean the calipers on a regular basis
- replace the fluid on a regular basis
- check any pivot points for wear, grease these points
- inspect your braided lines for kinks and or wear
- inspect the run of your braided lines with the suspension compressed
- inspect the run of your braided liens with the wheels off the ground
- never clamp the lines off, plug them instead
- replace any hose that become kinked during maintenance, you can't see what damage you might have done

Simple stuff, but kiwis in my experience are either reasonable home mechanics, or very poor. Always better that you fitted them yourself and thus no their entire history.

[F5 Dave]

You're not wrong, it can drive you to despair. Very good advice there, esp the "with the front wheel off the ground" bit.

The up over the front wheel is a silly design Suzuki were keen on. Think many racing orgs in US etc don't allow it. 2 lines. In fact some have gone further & require double cylinder master cylinders but that is pretty over the top I thought.

I thought I was pretty clued up bleeding brakes, but I've come up against a couple in a row that have beat me, but worse is where a mate shamed me by fixing them:weep: Non std calipers taken off bikes & put on at angles that can leave tiny curved cavities above the bleed nipple that even syringe back bleeding cannot dislodge. The Japanese don't build bikes like this (However there are a few Trials bikes with this malady).

Sometimes I now take off & hold carefully in Vice with a spare disc, or prop the bike up at a crazy angle (& put a flat clipon so the M/C is flat).

[imdying]

Yeah, tiny air pockets can be a pain.

Something else to consider is that the seals in the master cylinder age naturally. For best performance they should be rebuilt every 10 years or so. The kits are tiny and the cost generally seems excessive, but the results can be worth it. If the seals are bypassing, then you'll never get a good solid lever, even if it is seemingly bled correctly.

[F5 Dave]

Yes played that game. As well the often ignored caliper 2ndry (dust) seals get a bit distorted/twisted & can pull the tiny pistons back leading to excessive lever travel. Had that for the first time on the RGV brakes. Not that I'm trying to tell you that. I'm sure you've seen most things that us part time hacks think is new.

[imdying]

It's not rocket science, most people can manage rebuilding their brakes at home just fine.