After a bit of serious career advice - Engineering

[BASS-TREBLE]

Sitting here having a bit of a ponder about what to do when I finish school and was after some stories about you or what you'd recommend?

I'm 16, 6th form atm,will do next year too. Original plans were to do mechanical engineering at uni blah blah blah but come to think of it, the theory/office side of it isn't me.

I love mechanical stuff, not just bikes, I like people that think outside the box and try stuff. I spend my weekends/afternoons etc in the garage where I always find something to do.
Took my written off GN apart the other weekend, already found a use for the engine.
Do something to the FZR, think of what to change on the barstool racer that I built, try shit, just to see if it works. I have some electrical interest too, making LED lights for interiors in cars. Pretty much give anything a go if I have resources and teach myself.

Reflecting on that I was thinking maybe getting an apprenticeship with an engineering firm, no specifics. I just think that the hands on is what I do and like.

So here's me asking, is it hard to get into an apprenticeship? Worth it? Any advice/things to consider?

Cheers.

[ital916]

Gday bud.

I'm in my final year of mechanical engineering. It is heavily theory based in the forst few years and is not what most people think "engineering" is. Engineering isnt only a mechanical hands on discipline, engineering covers many things from mathematical modelling of systems, to electrical circuitry, computer programming all the way to the hands on stuff.

I'm doing mechanical engineering and in my final year have really started to appreciate what its about. The degree is designed to push your learning curve and make you want to quit. If you stick it out and get to the fourth year then you get to do what you want.

The uni also has a race team (auckland uni) if you wanna get real hands on experience, so you can join them for your duration. Its very very cool stuff (I was on the aerodynamics section of the team in year 2).

Next year Im hoping to do some great industry projects. Anyway, You can give uni a go and see if you like it. Nothing wrong with apprenticeships though. If you wanna work on bikes, do a modern bikes course that teaches you the electronic side of things.

[Pussy]

For hands on rewarding work.... aircraft engineer

[marty]

I'd agree. I'm an Aircraft Engineer. The biggest problem is that to work on big jets and for an airline, you'll be on shift work for life. Planes fly all day, and are fixed all night - it's just the way it is. It takes 5 years in the industry to get the CAA qualification (legal requirement)

OK money (we get more than most turboprop captains) and worldwide opportunities. I am just considering a position contracting to the UN in a 's$tan country that pays US$1300 a day, and from all accounts is pretty secure (they don't like their planes being blown up).

If you like big projects though, bridges and buildings are for you.

If you like technical stuff that makes an immediate and real difference if you don't get it right, Aircraft Engineering is for you. Most hangars have bikes in the corner having homers done on them too :)

[Naki Rat]

My step son is in his second year at Canterbury doing engineering. The first year is generic broadbrush engineering which weeds out the 'wanna bees' before specialising into more focussed engineering disciplines such as civil, chemical, electrical, mechanical, etc in the following years. Our lad is doing the chemical thing with opportunities in food processing, petrochem, metallurgy, plastics and much more available to him if he gets through it.

Engineering is a huge field and I know from experience that the offshore oil and construction industries are very short of young engineers. If you are bright and capable enough there is serious money to be made in these industries, often with international travel opportunities.

[KiwiGs]

Mate,
I wanted to be an electrical engineer when I was at school, but I really liked the hands on stuff and thought that an office job was not for me.
I got a lecky apprenticeship but got bored with it real quick. So I did NZCE electrical part time while I was working; now I am half way through a BSc in Energy management.
The lesson I have learnt is that it is far easier to study and learn stuff when you are young. If you think you want to be a degree qualified mech engineer then do it now, it will never be easier. Ask around the engineering shops in your area and see if they need a trade assistant during uni breaks. That way you will get some hands on experience and some cash as well.
Good luck

[CookMySock]

Reflecting on that I was thinking maybe getting an apprenticeship with an engineering firm, no specifics. I just think that the hands on is what I do and like.Well what sort of things do you want to get your hands ON exactly? Think carefully now.

It looks like a barrel of laughs playing with new toys at the moment, but you will discover a very harsh lesson in about 15 years time (watchout! not very far away!) that you are still working someone ELSES on broken crap from the 90's, 00's, etc when really you would rather be working on some modern gear, engineering something new and useful, instead of fixing someone elses broken crap on minimum wage.

So tempted by toys to enter the workforce right away, you will be your own demise before long, and there will be fuck all you will be able to do about it.

So I say DONT DO IT. Get your engineering degree.

Steve

[chef]

apprentice chef DO IT

[Blackbird]

I'm in my final year of mechanical engineering.

Major green bling for you Dushy when most young people are going for Law or IT:clap::clap:. I'm a Mech Eng too, or was until I retired.

[bikerboy011]

I was studying mechanical engineering until i decided to change my major to production, am in my 2nd year so far its ok.

[ital916]

Major green bling for you Dushy when most young people are going for Law or IT:clap::clap:. I'm a Mech Eng too, or was until I retired.

We are under appreciated. No glamour in mech eng (well really there is as we build the best stuff!). The world wouldnt work without us haha.

[phred]

Learn how to make money NOT things! Play with engines and fix things for relaxation.

[Ocean1]

So I say DONT DO IT. Get your engineering degree.

The best engineerts I know started as hairy arsed fitters, or similar, then added terciary quals. Dont matter how clever you are if you don't get the feel for materials and tecniques you'll never design shit worth anything.

[retro asian]

Original plans were to do mechanical engineering at uni blah blah blah but come to think of it, the theory/office side of it isn't me.


Like Dushy said, a University Engineering Degree is very full on with Theory.
(Good for building character however)
If you find awesome summer jobs, then you'll get more hands on experience -but I don't think Universities help you out much with that.

A more practical course would be found in a tech school (like AUT for example).

[Blackbird]

The best engineerts I know started as hairy arsed fitters, or similar, then added terciary quals. Dont matter how clever you are if you don't get the feel for materials and tecniques you'll never design shit worth anything.

Gotta agree - that's the way I did it:2thumbsup

[BASS-TREBLE]

A lot of info there, thanks guys.

Aircraft enigneers, what was your path?

Steve, last couple nights been a bit of fiddling drawing up mountsto fit the GN motor in the barstool, next is forming a chain tensioner for when it's in there.

Atm I'm thinking get into the uni course and take it from there.

[sAsLEX]

Yvan eht nioj!

[geoffm]

Whatever field you get into, make sure there is an ongoign career pathway that is recessionproof, and can't be outsourced to China, and preferably one where the customers need your services by law, rather than being a toy. It is one reason I went back to Uni and changed careers in my mid 30s to fire protection engineering. I started out in manufacturing, running a plastics factory. A real good long term career path in NZ for sure...
Fire is good, as any alteration will need your services, and contractors have ongoing maintennece work which can't be done by a sweatshop in Dehli.
If you want to talk about the ins and outs of Building Services, give me a call.
Geoff
BE(mech), MBA, MEFE, CPeng, IntPE, MSFPE, MIPENZ and some other stuff.

[BASS-TREBLE]

Yvan eht nioj!

What do they offer?
I don't mean that in a negative way, very interested to find out more.

[sAsLEX]

What do they offer?
I don't mean that in a negative way, very interested to find out more.

I am a Weapons Engineer, I have just graduated from Auckland with my BE in Computer Systems Engineering, which I had finished in 06 but have been out of the country since basically, training and travelling with work. My degree was free. I had support and resources available within the NZDF to assist in my degree. I have job security.


http://navyjobs.mil.nz/navy-jobs/officers/Pages/Weapon-Engineering-Officer.aspx

Have a look around there, some more accurate info than what I could give as I joined a while back!

[k14]

Yeah like everyone else said, go to uni and do engineering. I didn't end up with an engineering degree (physics) but have ended up in a job that is more engineering than not. In my first year of uni I had itchy feet and really wanted to get out after not really liking things after 6 months. After my parents made me HTFU I applied myself and got some good results. 4 years later I am very happy with the decision because I now have an awesome job and get paid good money.

There are less and less professional engineer/science guys around and if you can get good experience now (before you are 30) you will have plenty of options in 10-15 years time when all the baby boomers are retiring. There is a big skills shortage in those type of industries and it will only lead to good things imo!

[Pussy]

Gotta agree - that's the way I did it:2thumbsup

Yeah.... Boilermakers ftw! :D

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[sAsLEX]

Yeah.... Boilermakers ftw! :D


Getting a boiler ticket would be worth some decent money and provide some decent job security. Lots of ex-navy use their tickets ashore in power/steam generation and not many people are coming through with ticket any more.


Fonterra and the like are big users of steam ....

[Pussy]

Getting a boiler ticket would be worth some decent money and provide some decent job security. Lots of ex-navy use their tickets ashore in power/steam generation and not many people are coming through with ticket any more.


Fonterra and the like are big users of steam ....

Slightly different... that's a stationary engine drivers ticket you're thinking about, a VERY good qualification.
Boilermakers BUILD the boilers.
The clip is a bit of an "in joke" with Blackbird, pertaining to my ex-career

[sAsLEX]

Slightly different... that's a stationary engine drivers ticket you're thinking about, a VERY good qualification.
Boilermakers BUILD the boilers.
The clip is a bit of an "in joke" with Blackbird, pertaining to my ex-career

I know it was a bit of a tangent, I deal with boilermakers everyday at the moment, they are welding an awful lot of steel on the back of my ship!

[kit]

MY 2c.... Coming from an ex welders point of view.... I think students need hands on experience too..... Just to get the first hand info into understanding the processes involved in making something and different materials etc.... Its all well an good desiging something then handing it over to some poor bugger who actually has to try and make the thing..... a practical knowlege of how things work would surely help you to design things better?

[Sketchy_Racer]

It really depends on what you want to be. Head down the uni route and you will more than likely become a 'pen pusher' engineer. Sitting in an office drawing and designing stuff. Great and there is good money (even if you are shit at it, or maybe thats just my work) but it does mean you wont get as much hands on experience.

The other option is to a do a mechanical based apprenticeship. This way you will end up with the hands on experience of machining and designing in real world situations, not from the leisure of an office where reality doesn't extend past a keyboard.

I am doing the latter and obviously I am biased, but the 'pen pusher' engineers are the type of people with infinite knowledge about design and materials etc, but have no grasp on how things work in the real world.

I would say no matter which way you want go, do the hands on thing first, you can always upskill and learn the 'pen pusher' way, but hands on ability comes from nothing more than experience, which you can't do a 3 year course and be called 'competent' no matter what anyone trys to tell you.

Ask some engineering firms if they will let you do some work experience.

[chef]

CHEF CHEF CHEF you know you want to

[BASS-TREBLE]

CHEF CHEF CHEF you know you want to

Whats that?

[Bass]

I am doing the latter and obviously I am biased, but the 'pen pusher' engineers are the type of people with infinite knowledge about design and materials etc, but have no grasp on how things work in the real world.



There is a grain of truth in what you say but it is still a very very broad generalisation.

I am a degree qualified engineer and there was a time when I'll bet I could have given you a really good run for your money with a lathe, milling machine or welder.

Don't forget either, that every major project you see out there, from a bridge to an oil refinery, has a professional engineer at the helm. Most of these projects seem to work OK afterwards and so some of those engineers must have some grip on reality and how the world works.

The most rewarding jobs I have ever done, started with an open piece of land and finished with a working factory. I had to understand it all, from laying the drains to programming the PLC's. You just don't get that variety in the workshop. (Note that I said "understand", not "do".)
The sense of achievement depends entirely on the individual however. It's not necessarily related to the job and I support your suggestion about work experience BTW.

There is no substitute for experience I agree, but when it goes hand in hand with knowledge, there are no limits.

Professional engineers have made a bigger contribution to improvements in our living standards than any other group and that's a measureable fact, not just an opinion. Their influence reaches into many, many other professions. I recall an opthalmologist who had just completed a corneal transplant on a friend of mine telling us it all came down to the engineer who designed his tools, that made it possible.

The point of this rave is that I think that you do the OP a disservice in trying to dissuade him from the professional path. My own experience was that I didn't realise how many doors it opens until after I had the qualification (which takes 4 years not 3 incidentally).

[EgliHonda]

Oh dude, great question.
Also a professional engineer (Electrical, the real nerdy ones) but got into that after completing a sparky apprenticeship. Not a bad way to do it, as long as you realise you will be a few years older than most of your class, and will have no income for this period...

Perhaps a bit like you when at school, had no idea what I wanted to do, other than knowing I didn't want to do accounting (ended up marrying an accountant funnily enough). So picked the apprenticeship route and have lifelong skills/qualifications and the ability to interact with people at all levels because of it. I struggled at uni initially, as I did the whole thing from intermediate year on (without having done 7th form). You probably should look at the NZCE option during your apprenticeship, and then only have to do 2 yrs to gain BE, if that is still possible?

As mentioned, it is a hard degree, and you often feel unappreciated when accountants etc get paid a lot more for contributing much less, but you can always hold your head high knowing you have nailed one of the more difficult degree choices...

So, prob easier doing degree now, while your head still in the study phase, but there are advantages to having trade/life skills beforehand, plus when you graduate it can make you stand out from all the others when job hunting...

Now I am in a position where the day is filled with design, computer work, project management, and home is for spanner work on the bikes/projects (when the baby allows). Not a bad mix, get to knock bits of skin off the knuckles and work in the warm, bit of travel there too.

Good luck whatever you choose...

[chef]

Whats that?
you got to be kidding?

[BASS-TREBLE]

you got to be kidding?

I am.
I like chefs, they make yummy food

[Blackbird]

Whatever field you get into, make sure there is an ongoign career pathway that is recession proof,

Very good advice. Whatever you do, you shouldn't set your goals too tightly either as you never know what doors will open. The real key is to give 100% at whatever you're doing at the time and then doors will open for you.

In my case, I mentioned that I started as a fitting/turning apprentice and I was lucky enough to get sponsored by my company to study for a professional career in engineering. When we emigrated to NZ in '75, I worked in engineering in the pulp and paper industry and became maintenance manager for a pulp and paper mill. I got a fairly good reputation whilst in that job and the company subsequently moved me to senior positions implementing quality systems, productivity improvement and for the last 6 years before retirement as group technical marketing manager.

The point I'm making is that whatever you study, it's only the START of your working life. If you put your back into it, you'll be surprised what doors open; many of which you'll have never even thought about and some which don't even exist yet.

Best of luck, whatever path you choose.

[Pussy]

I worked in engineering in the pulp and paper industry and became maintenance manager for a pulp and paper mill. I got a fairly good reputation whilst in that job

And your reputation will improve, Blackbird, if you sign off my 6hrs CSW, 6hrs Heat and an extra meal ticket!..... :D

[Blackbird]

And your reputation will improve, Blackbird, if you sign off my 6hrs CSW, 6hrs Heat and an extra meal ticket!..... :D

You've been waiting nigh on 30 years for that, another decade won't hurt. I will buy you a beer a bit quicker than that though:buggerd:

[Flip]

The thing with Mechnical engineers they end up doing sooo many interesting things.

I started work in a marine engineering company, did a NZCE then did a BE and finally did a trade level qual as a gas network fitter, I was sitting on the board at the time and wanted to check what was being taught so I did the block courses.

I really did my "real engineering" as a pressure vessel and heat plant design engineer in the boiler industry. I did a 20 year stint in the petrochemical industry as the engineer for two oil and gas companies. Now I am the operations manager in a small fuel company. I do a little flow modeling design consulting work from time to time to keep my hand in.

When people ask what I do I still say I am an engineer even if it has been many years since I did any real engineering. I guess for me I was always going to be an engineer, its a hobby and a job.

By all means go the Trade-NZCE way you will learn heaps and earn while you study. You can then hopefully with sponsorship do a BE. You will find that with just the trade or NZCE a lot of higher level engineering positions will not be easily available to you. If you are good at maths and can survive for the next 4 years jump straight into the BE the sooner you get it the sooner you can earn the big bucks.

[Blackbird]

When people ask what I do I still say I am an engineer even if it has been many years since I did any real engineering. I guess for me I was always going to be an engineer, its a hobby and a job.



EXACTLY! Same with me and I suspect with most engineers. It never leaves you.

[jrandom]

Dont matter how clever you are if you don't get the feel for materials and tecniques you'll never design shit worth anything.

A very valid point, but I vote for knuckling down and doing the BE right away.

Auckland Uni's engineering faculty is good, and that bit of paper will make the rest of your life a lot easier and a lot more profitable.

It won't condemn you to an office job if you don't want it, but it will give you a lot more choices.

I've always thought that the basic function of a professional degree isn't to teach you anything useful so much as it is a way to prove to people who don't know you that you're capable of working hard and have a decent amount of IQ to throw at problems.

Get straight in there, do your four years and get good grades. You will never regret it, even if you take an unconventional path after you graduate.

For what it's worth, I dropped out halfway through a BSc, kicked around a bit and then talked my way into my first software engineering job in industry.

The lack of a degree never held my career back, but that was more down to luck and personality, I think. I wouldn't advise anyone else to take the same chances.

Anyway, after ten years in that career I wound up taking on boring work that I hated because the money was good, and burned out after a year doing it.

So now I'm taking a hipster sabbatical as a bicycle courier.

Funny how life goes sometimes.

:doobey:

But go get that BE, BASS-TREBLE.

[gatch]

Hullo, I'm nearly at the end of my 3rd year in a fitting/machining apprenticeship. It is not as cool as I thought still very interesting though as I do alot of rebuild/modification and repair kind of stuff. Machinig stuff from new is easy compared to fixing something old and fucked, but anyway..

Mate if you don't mind waiting around 8 years to really launch into a career, I would say start with an apprentice ship (if you can find one) in machining or similar, then have a go at a mechanical engineering degree, or like what I'm planning on, a diploma in the same.

Practical based engineers and office based have different opinions on the best ways to accomplish the same objective, in my opinion having knowledge in both would make you a better "engineer" than someone who has spent their entire lives seeing one side of the coin.

But after all that you might find you don't want to do this for a living and become a gay podium dancer ?

Have fun

[BASS-TREBLE]

Thanks a lot for everyones imput.

I'll start my path with uni and see where it takes me.

Closer to level 2 exams now and I find that my biggest struggle at the moment is chemistry, ugh, waikato uni etc have it as a compolsury entry criteria.

Does anyone know how tight they are with people that don't quite meet them?

[gatch]

Thanks a lot for everyones imput.

I'll start my path with uni and see where it takes me.

Closer to level 2 exams now and I find that my biggest struggle at the moment is chemistry, ugh, waikato uni etc have it as a compolsury entry criteria.

Does anyone know how tight they are with people that don't quite meet them?

To the best of my knowledge (which isn't 100% on uni matters) if you aren't up to scratch with one part of the entry standards but are above average in the rest they 'can' make an exception, but this is on a case by case basis, you have to show them you mean business..

I think..

[Animal]

The best engineerts I know started as hairy arsed fitters, or similar, then added terciary quals. Dont matter how clever you are if you don't get the feel for materials and tecniques you'll never design shit worth anything.

That's definitely the best way to do it. Well, an apprenticeship followed later by degree or two certainly worked for me! Earning an income as an apprentice gave me a good balance between studying and still having a life. In later years, I could afford to take a few years off here and there to gain further quals - with zero student loan. My two cents worth.