Well bikers are screwed - ACC levy

[JohnR]

Camp out the local MPs homes tbh. That'd get a reaction. :Police:

Just make you chose the right one of the 3 they are claiming for!:lol:

[Badjelly]

Alright, we need to see some action. First thing we should start on is this myth that smaller bikes are at less risk of fatal accidents :bash:. We need volunteers to ride on the open road on small capacity bikes and have fatal accidents to even this out :2guns:.

Who's in?? :stupid:

I'll have you know my Scorpio is just as dangerous as a ZX-6R! :headbang:

But they're both much safer than a BMW F650. :baby:

[ukusa]

And here are the statistics broken down per vehicle type. Please note cost of injury of motorcycle claims as oppose to cars. (especialy for perion in 2007)

Where did Prick Smith get his figures from?

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/statistics/acc-injury-statistics-2008/8-motor-vehicle-account/IS0800143

Interesting figures. A bit of analysis shows the following (from the latest figures on there only);
Based on the number of new & active claims totalled together,"Unknown" is the most costly type of ACC claim at $26,740 each (don't know what classifies as unknown, maybe a motorised couch?). Second are Trucks at $20,284.05. Cars are 3rd at $17,381.93 with motorcycles way down at 6th most costly with $13,866.27 per claim.
Even pedestrians claims are more costly than motorbikes (4th) & cycling (5th). Don't know how they work these figures though. I presume pedestrians are injuries related to being hit by cars, bikes, trains, trucks etc etc. I would also assume cyclists are a mix of crashes whilst riding, as well as being hit by other vehicles. I would presume most of these injuries are caused by cars.

[EYNON13]

Alright, we need to see some action. First thing we should start on is this myth that smaller bikes are at less risk of fatal accidents :bash:. We need volunteers to ride on the open road on small capacity bikes and have fatal accidents to even this out :2guns:.

Who's in?? :stupid:
ive just done my bike bike up over winter still a few things to do but now if i was to sell its not even worth a crate of beer,, im in for a protest ride i will even start from the kaitaia and ride to wellington and get people keen on the way whos up for a ride this levy hike is rediculis i reckon if you dont have a wof or reg or even the wrong licence then you shouldnt be covered not those of us that are doing every thing buy the book,,as i get peaved qwite a bit when people joke about crashing as an example a guy in our club crashed his bike just dun up hadnt bled the front brakes was wet day no wof reg on hold glases foged went across the center lane wrote his bike of and the car off fucked his leg hes on acc now,, theyve basicly paid for all the opps gave him $18000 cash for loss of job now hes got a new bike all paid of and stil payin for the ladys car at $5 a week or sumtin stupid fu!KIN IDIOT:mad:

[JohnR]

And here are the statistics broken down per vehicle type. Please note cost of injury of motorcycle claims as oppose to cars. (especialy for perion in 2007)

Where did Prick Smith get his figures from?

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/statistics/acc-injury-statistics-2008/8-motor-vehicle-account/IS0800143

I don't understand where any of these figures come from:scratch:...the ACC45 form filled out by everyone claiming ACC has no question, box or feild to fill in regarding the type of vehicle involved!

I can only assume that the info is collected by some other means, but where?:sherlock:

[mossy1200]

Hey back off!!

we never fall off LOL!!!

BTW if this goes through I'll be paying well enough for my off road stuff within my on road rego!!!!
Go see the other sports and stop picking on us bikers, Most off roaders do both that I know!!

Im not having a dig but you would have to assume they have lumped xcross in the figures as inflation.
To me you guys are like rugby players and skiers etc covered by total pool but setting figures for road bikes with offroad calculated in the mix is robbing from a minority to feed the majority.3 off road vehicles to every on road was a figure that sticks in my mind.

[mossy1200]

Interesting figures. A bit of analysis shows the following (from the latest figures on there only);
Based on the number of new & active claims totalled together,"Unknown" is the most costly type of ACC claim at $26,740 each (don't know what classifies as unknown, maybe a motorised couch?). Second are Trucks at $20,284.05. Cars are 3rd at $17,381.93 with motorcycles way down at 6th most costly with $13,866.27 per claim.
Even pedestrians claims are more costly than motorbikes (4th) & cycling (5th). Don't know how they work these figures though. I presume pedestrians are injuries related to being hit by cars, bikes, trains, trucks etc etc. I would also assume cyclists are a mix of crashes whilst riding, as well as being hit by other vehicles. I would presume most of these injuries are caused by cars.

Lets think logically.
road accident that involves car will give you high injury cost and time off work.
So even though the figures show less than half involve cars what is the cost percentage.
low side slides etc and so on may account for stat figures for amount of accidents but low percentage of cost.Maybe an xray and all clear etc cuts and check up.
Car meets bike may cost big with broken pelvis and 3months off work.
Sometimes a little info can be misleading as to whats costing the cash.

[5150]

Another cutout from Stuff.co.nz. If true, beurocracy at it's best... HAHA



Acc expect the NZ public to accept these huge increases to levys and cuts to entitlement but are they also going to be looking at staff costs and expenses??Why are they paying CEO Dr Jan White $560,000.00 per year for her 4 day working week and her weelky return trips to her home in Brisbane?????Yes thats right Dr Jan White flys back and forth to Brisbane every weekend.Will Acc also be cutting back staff perks & bonuses? Perks that include expensive Botox treatments and such like.

:buggerd:

[skidMark]

Where is ACC's head office i think words/ protest required.

My katana is 673cc.... *facepalm*

I think car drivers should be covering us for some of it.

many times they are the cause so it balances out , the spokesperson for ACC said this themself less than a month ago on the herald website.

And let me guess theyve hiked ours up but they wont go putting car rego down by the claimed $70 it costs each car driver. my bet is it will remain the same or go up...

what a pack of wankers...

you guys going to sit back and let it happen, or should we get on closeup at 7 or campbell live with a group of bikers vs a spokesperson for ACC?

or are we all going to just talk shit on the internet and just sit here scratching our nuts instead.

[Griffin]

I think that this whole debacle is a huge smoke screen to create hate toward ACC thereby allowing the government to 'rescue' us from it by privatising the insurance system.
Privatisation is a National Governmemts hallmark, it is what they have attempted to do in the past and it was a shambles then. This time they need a reason for bringing privatisation back.

ACC is a burden as far as National are concerned, they want rid of it and we will be the ones to cause it. The Fat Cats in power will be sitting in the Beehive looking out their window and waiting for the rumble of a hundred thousand motorbikes... and when that happens, they will be rubbing their chubby little hands together.

[skidMark]

Another cutout from Stuff.co.nz. If true, beurocracy at it's best... HAHA



Acc expect the NZ public to accept these huge increases to levys and cuts to entitlement but are they also going to be looking at staff costs and expenses??Why are they paying CEO Dr Jan White $560,000.00 per year for her 4 day working week and her weelky return trips to her home in Brisbane?????Yes thats right Dr Jan White flys back and forth to Brisbane every weekend.Will Acc also be cutting back staff perks & bonuses? Perks that include expensive Botox treatments and such like.

:buggerd:


Botox.... they gotta hide the grin of we are shafting you up the ass somehow.

[mossy1200]

Claims Manager.

Im looking at you figures and see no reference to off road motorcycle accidents which having no registration pay no levy.
Motorcycles involving car accidents are less than half but I would like the information of the percentage of acc claim involving cars in dollar figures.
i am assuming that these cost more than a simply break or check up.
Car verses bike causes major injuries eg broken pelvous and three months off work.

I am requesting more information than a yearly figure and average cost since you have decided to attack my wallet.

Thanks Steve Mossman


I have sent this to acc

complaints@acc.co.nz

[Dak]

Do this, next time you reg your bike, you get an itemised total right, OK, license bike, pay ONLY the ACC levy amount by cheque, pay the rest by cash, eftpos or whatever. Go straight to your bank and cancel the cheque.

[Ice_Monsta]

Another cutout from Stuff.co.nz. If true, beurocracy at it's best... HAHA



Acc expect the NZ public to accept these huge increases to levys and cuts to entitlement but are they also going to be looking at staff costs and expenses??Why are they paying CEO Dr Jan White $560,000.00 per year for her 4 day working week and her weelky return trips to her home in Brisbane?????Yes thats right Dr Jan White flys back and forth to Brisbane every weekend.Will Acc also be cutting back staff perks & bonuses? Perks that include expensive Botox treatments and such like.

:buggerd:
That's worth complaining about...

[Indiana_Jones]

hmmmm what would Brian Boitano do?

-Indy

[5150]

Bring back Buck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Murray]

Guy Fawkes is coming soon!! uummmmhhhhhh idea!!!!

[5150]

Maybe Dr Nick Smith should go for a ride on the back of Brian Tamaki's Harley HAHAHA!!!!!:clap:

[ready4whatever]

Why are they paying CEO Dr Jan White $560,000.00 per year for her 4 day working week and her weelky return trips to her home in Brisbane?????

:buggerd:

Man are you serious?? they should be dragged outside and shot in the head. No way what she is earning is actually earnt.

[5150]

Man are you serious?? they should be dragged outside and shot in the head. No way what she is earning is actually earnt.


Maybe they are contracted, in wchich case it is just another example of money wasting withing our government. Anyway, anything is possible within our government. Time and time they have proven it.

[5150]

Hang on... I just figured it all out. The higher cc bike levy is actually aimed at gangs who ride their big bad Harleys. Lets tax them for their crimes. Rest of us law abiding citizens who ride bikes are just colateral damage. Yeah, that makes sence. A levy (tax) in disquise

[Misred]

It sucks big time!!!!!,

As a couple we ride our own bikes...... so has our 'free will' been demimished, and taken over by thoses who have all the money they need??!?!

Its just another way for them, in POWER, to distroy our 'freedom' to RIDE!

[Bend-it]

What then? sit quietly and pay the increase?

Or go illegal and don't pay regos?

[Morcs]

400s and 600s shouldnt be the same price imho.

[DidJit]

Smoke & mirrors you reckon... You might be on to something there, Griffin. However, if a hundred thousand motorbikes capture the attention and, more importantly, the backing of the greater NZ voting public, those current Fat Cats in power will get a tad nervous and rein in the bureaucrats who are pushing for these changes.

So, I think that, as has already been said in some of the other threads, it is very important that we as responsible, law-abiding, tax-paying and voting motorcycling citizens, organise a carefully concerted campaign whereby everything that said bureaucrats throw at us is rebutted intelligently and factually. We need to be perceived by the public as unfairly and grossly discriminated against, but we also need to prove that.

If we all get behind this and create enough noise in the media, enough awareness in the public mind, then we should be able to stop these ludicrous proposals (including any counter-proposals ala privatisation) in their tracks.

[Hopeful Bastard]

Heres some food for thought.

Police have motorbikes these days right? They arent just any little yamaha 250 are they?


Now the police want to SAVE money.. Yet ACC have gone and put up the prices it costs to keep bikes on the road. So does this mean that the Police are gonna find new ways to cut costs (ie getting rid of more radars) or are they gonna knock down on how many bikes they have.

Also, Would they be EXEMPT from this new hike?

:Playnice:

[5150]

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, i just found solution to our problem. just fit one of these on your bike while riding. Should cut down motorcycle injuries drastically. So, step right up, step right up, grab one. I accept all major credit cards!!!!

[Despatch]

Anyone want to buy a Honda Hornet 900cc? Excellent condition, low mileage. With the stroke of an ACC pen has been rendered to be worth absolutely nothing overnight. Willing to accept a moped or bicycle in exchange, and to pay the difference in value.

[kunoichi]

or get everyone on motorbikes then everyone will use the road correctly! They wanna cut down on their carbon emissions to keep nz clean, oh wait! i know! let's make it cost more to own a bike! They wanna try to make uni students life more affordable, let's slam a huge bill on the students smart enuf to get on two wheels, oh yeah, and just for kicks, let's lump the dumb ass scooter stats with them, even tho u don't have to do ANY training to ride a 50cc scooter...NZ govt is SOOOO smart man!

[mossy1200]

Requested a break down of costs and got this reply.

Hello



I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your email and to thank you for your comments. All correspondence received is documented and your feedback is appreciated.



One suggestion we often make to our callers in relation to levy issues is that one way to be heard is to visit your local MP. The levies and policies that you mention are set down by the government, and ACC are required to act under the currrent legislation.



We have also been advised of the following address/es for submissions by the public:



All submissions must be in writing and can be emailed, posted or faxed by 5pm, 10 November 2009. Submissions can be sent to:

· email: consultation@acc.co.nz

· fax: 04 918 4395

· writing to: Levy Consultation, ACC, PO Box 242, Wellington 6140.



Regards


g
g
g






Customer Support Coordinator
Accident Compensation Corporation
(Telephone + 0800 650 222 VPN 80672
7 Facsimile + 0800 750 222
* Email Complaints@acc.co.nz


ACC cares about the environment – please don’t print this email
unless it is really necessary.

[Danae]

One of problems is they are lumping offroad injuries with the motorcycle-related injuries...There is a problem here. Yes, many offroaders own road bikes too. And dirtbiking is one of the best ways to learn how to ride and understand about traction without the danger of other road vehicles. If we were to make offroad bikes need to be registered and have an ACC levy, this would greatly deter many riders. It would also defeat the purpose of learning to ride offroad first. Plus it would still mean riders are paying separate levies for more than one bike.

As someone else suggested, ACC levy should be put with your driver's license. You have one of these, right? And many of you have more than one bike (offroad or onroad). Just because you own more than one bike doesn't mean you are more likely to crash.

Saying that motorcycles are more likely to crash is a disgusting oversight. Many accidents are caused by other vehicles on the road. Yet if a car causes you to crash, you fill out the ACC form and they stick it as a "motorcycle-related injury". If they had made a new category: "accident and injury caused by car/other road user" they would see the difference. Especially with cyclists and pedestrians. Because ACC doesn't make this difference clear, our dear friend Nick the dick Smith simply sees that since motorcycles take the most claims (which I understand is also bullshit) then they should pay a higher levy. God this guy is fucking moron.

But I am preaching to the choir here.

[Danae]

ACC cares about the environment – please don’t print this email
unless it is really necessary.

OH FFS

Bloody fucking ACC

If they care so much about the fucking environment, shouldn't they be encouraging the use of low-emission vehicles such as oh, I dunno, MOTORCYCLES?

:mad:

What the fuck.

[woppa]

We motorcyclists are being forced to bear the brunt of ACC levy increases - when much of the time it is car/truck drivers that cause the accidents. Motorcycling is a much more environmentally friendly mode of transportation - easier on fossil fuels, easier on the roads, and easier on CO2 emissions. In many countries people are encouraged to ride - BUT not in NZ. Sure - riders are more vulnerable - and more susceptible to poorer roading conditions etc - but that isn't a good reason to increase the levy to the levels they are proposing!!!

What about the large numbers of people who are injured because of alcohol related accidents - at home, in their cars, etc should they be allowed to receive ACC payments and treatment when their injuries may well have been preventable if they weren't under the influence??

And what of the large number of people who suffer accidents whilst playing sports. In fairness - should they too be paying ACC levies - I think so.

I urge all bikers to protest at these unjust increases - surely it would be fairer if the drivers that caused the accidents were the ones who were held liable for the costs - then we might see more respect accorded motorcyclists in this country!!!

Live to ride - Ride to live!!

[mossy1200]

OH FFS

Bloody fucking ACC

If they care so much about the fucking environment, shouldn't they be encouraging the use of low-emission vehicles such as oh, I dunno, MOTORCYCLES?

:mad:

What the fuck.
They would be concerned about the paper cuts most likely

[Mikkel]

Hang on... I just figured it all out. The higher cc bike levy is actually aimed at gangs who ride their big bad Harleys. Lets tax them for their crimes. Rest of us law abiding citizens who ride bikes are just colateral damage. Yeah, that makes sence. A levy (tax) in disquise

Hell, how about legalising cannabis and use the taxation on that little gem to fund the ACC shortfall... seems like a reasonable idea to me.

Somehow I doubt the crims are going to give a shit about an ACC levy rise - what are the chances that they are already paying for registration as it is?

[nico]

well on my nice ride home advoding crazy taxi driver's i came up with an idea ,, since we being told were gna pay 2wice the rego cost that must mean we can travel 2wice the posted speed limit makes sence dont it .
also feel free to park in car parks actually park over 2 i mean it's just fair aint it.

[Hopeful Bastard]

Here are some things that i have copied out and pasted onto an A4 sheet paper to be put in my car windows!

"Buyin a Bike - $3,500
Paying ACC levies - $1000
Seeing the look on Cagers faces while we shut down main roads - Priceless

There are some things you cant do in a cage. For everything else, There's motorbikes. "


"ACC – Killing Bikers Faster Than They Kill Themselves"


"I had to give up two wheels to pay for 1 Rego"




Those are just some examples. The others are pictures.

[samgab]

Pretty gutted about this. I've been cycling whilst saving for an SV650, but I'm reconsidering getting another motorbike now.
The bicycle requires no rego, no WOF, no ACC levies, no petrol, no road user tax, and gets me fit whilst riding.
Of course I have to contend with nearly being side-swiped by cagers every time I ride...

[5150]

Pretty gutted about this. I've been cycling whilst saving for an SV650, but I'm reconsidering getting another motorbike now.
The bicycle requires no rego, no WOF, no ACC levies, no petrol, no road user tax, and gets me fit whilst riding.
Of course I have to contend with nearly being side-swiped by cagers every time I ride...





And pretty soon they will start charging you ACC levys for riding it. $200 per year and $300 if you under 15 cause you more likely to fall off and hurt yourself when you are learning to ride.

[dipshit]

Dunno if anyone else has mentioned it but it would seem that the ACC levy component is going to increase to $745, from $252... Currently licensing is $380, so there is $130 of non-ACC in there making it $875 per year for 601cc+.

You're forgetting the extra for the GST percentage of the higher ACC portion. Somebody else earlier in this thread worked it out to over $900.

[samgab]

And pretty soon they will start charging you ACC levys for riding it. $200 per year and $300 if you under 15 cause you more likely to fall off and hurt yourself when you are learning to ride.

Yeah, true. Thinking about it, toddlers and babies fall over and hurt themselves all the time, I think maybe there should be a $100 ACC levy on Treasures; per nappy. And people should be charged $50 for crossing the road, $100 if it's not on a pedestrian or crossing light.

Seriously though, I wonder how they would implement a Bicycle registration scheme. I bet ACC would love to do that.

[peasea]

I rang the Motor Registration Centre in Palmy today.......I asked what was the minimum time you can reg a bike for if the rego is on hold. "You can specify a time and there is no lower limit". So, I'm going to put our bikes on hold for the darker six months of the year (say June-Nov) and if an event comes up and the weather looks good just rego' the bikes for a few days.

It might be a pain but worth it for the savings. Fuck 'em.

Might even do it for the V8 now too.

[5150]

I rang the Motor Registration Centre in Palmy today.......I asked what was the minimum time you can reg a bike for if the rego is on hold. "You can specify a time and there is no lower limit". So, I'm going to put our bikes on hold for the darker six months of the year (say June-Nov) and if an event comes up and the weather looks good just rego' the bikes for a few days.

It might be a pain but worth it for the savings. Fuck 'em.

Might even do it for the V8 now too.

Now that is definately worth looking at. User Pays, right?

[samgab]

just no pay license. police no shoot for stop for NZ. Police shoot for stop for bolivia

change make govnerment no words. must gain lot people for change. play protestation for change

Eh?.......

[skidMark]

Eh?.......

That about sums it up :lol:

[k2w3]

It's not as simple as that, peasea. If you declare it "off road" and nominate a duration, it has to be off road for that duration. If you opt to bring it back on within that period, they back date the charge to the beginning of the period. Best way is to off road it for shorter periods at a time.

[Griffin]

What then? sit quietly and pay the increase?

Or go illegal and don't pay regos?

I would recommend neither... I am totally against the increase and I wouldnt advise anyone to commit a crime - we have no choice but to protest, but this is how cleverly thought out schemes work - and work it will.

[k2w3]

I should add that mine is off road over the winter months, so any action (and I'd be keen to join) hopefully takes place when my notice period expires.

I'm not really your hairy-arsed biker type, but I'll be damned if I'm paying an increase like that, so will be riding tax-free from the point at which it becomes law.

[mossy1200]

It's not as simple as that, peasea. If you declare it "off road" and nominate a duration, it has to be off road for that duration. If you opt to bring it back on within that period, they back date the charge to the beginning of the period. Best way is to off road it for shorter periods at a time.

If its off for longer than three months of the duration then no backpay applies.

[ready4whatever]

Yip sometimes theres alot more to it than meets the eye.

[k2w3]

That's good to know. Just to clarify, if you declare 6 months and want to bring it back at the 5-month mark, there is zero backdated amount, or do they backdate in 3-month blocks?

[Danae]

"ACC – Killing Bikers Faster Than They Kill Themselves"

"I had to give up two wheels to pay for 1 Rego"



I like these :2thumbsup

[mossy1200]

That's good to know. Just to clarify, if you declare 6 months and want to bring it back at the 5-month mark, there is zero backdated amount, or do they backdate in 3-month blocks?

zero but you must go past the three month mark.Wife works NZ Post and thats how system works at the moment.Hold 12 and can lift after 3 etc.

[k2w3]

In that case I look forward to joining the ride. It was either that or load the Blackbird onto the back of the ute, which is still tempting, tbh.

[5150]

And finally one from mr Plod himself courtesy of Stuff.co.nz

Speaking as a front line Police officer of 20 years plus I can confidently say that the majority of bike riders are responsible and careful. More often than not they come off second best trying to avoid a situation that is not of their making but unfortunately come off second best as well. In any case it is far more likely that a learner on a 250 cc bike is going to have a mishap due to inexperience than a seasoned rider on a big bike. The CC argument doesn't stack up. I was about to buy a larger bike again to travel to work to save on petrol but this won't be an option now. What I can see happening is thousands of bike riders not paying their rego's or putting them on hold most of the year. Why wouldn't they, how many times do you get stopped every year by the Police. The fine is only $200, do the maths.

[Reckless]

The freckin National Govt will put the fines up pretty quick!!

Then the scabs like council parking wardens will pounce for no rego as well!!

My wife went to Auck for a coarse yesterday. The Auck City Council Maggots where still on the bus lane with their camera taking pics and ticketing even though the buses where on strike!! Maggots!!

[Danae]

And finally one from mr Plod himself courtesy of Stuff.co.nz

Speaking as a front line Police officer of 20 years plus I can confidently say that the majority of bike riders are responsible and careful. More often than not they come off second best trying to avoid a situation that is not of their making but unfortunately come off second best as well. In any case it is far more likely that a learner on a 250 cc bike is going to have a mishap due to inexperience than a seasoned rider on a big bike. The CC argument doesn't stack up. I was about to buy a larger bike again to travel to work to save on petrol but this won't be an option now. What I can see happening is thousands of bike riders not paying their rego's or putting them on hold most of the year. Why wouldn't they, how many times do you get stopped every year by the Police. The fine is only $200, do the maths.

This guy's the man!

[gsp0702]

Dr Smith said motorcyclists were 16 times more likely than car drivers to be involved in accidents yet car owners were currently subsidising their ACC bills by $70 each.

:Oi:SO who subsidies the push bike claims, they don't pay a penny in levies! So much for a No-Fault system! I hate they way they have twisted the figures and claim that $62million was claimed for accidents caused by motorcyclists, don't they mean accidents involving motorcyclists? remove the money where other vehicles were found to be at fault and money for tourist accidents and then what is the true claim for local NZ motorcyclists?
You could go one step further and suggest if alcohol or speed were a factor refuse cover as they would be criminals and breaking the law so should be entitled to help. That would give a true realistic cost and I suspect it would mess up their argument!:Playnice:

[Bangbug]

A comment from Stuff.co.nz page. pretty good suggestion me thinks

To all you law abiding motorcyclists. You should look to the 'boy racer' for inspiration at this difficult time. He will get caught, fined, not pay the fine, get more fines , not pay, go to court, get the fines (which could be many thousands) written off and in place get a few hours community work at a weekend. Much cheaper option.

Doing a bit of marshal time at a track sounds like a nice community service pass time ;)
Ran into an American today, he was keen to register his bike in Alaska ($26 for 3 years or something) and have his bike here on "holiday" with him.
Wonder what the ins and outs are of that?

[rustic101]

please feel free to copy paste, adjust and just as you see fit. If it helps

[Danae]

Doing a bit of marshal time at a track sounds like a nice community service pass time ;)
Ran into an American today, he was keen to register his bike in Alaska ($26 for 3 years or something) and have his bike here on "holiday" with him.
Wonder what the ins and outs are of that?

Dunno about the legality...but he'd have to worry about shipping. Which in the long run would cost less than the rego here!!

[kwaka_crasher]

Labour govt was the most honest govnt you will be seeing until there crooks that are in are out.

Despite having the only MP ever convicted of corruption? Tui?


Wait until you have to pay you own hospital bills, or your own private health....if they decide they want to insure you, riding a motorcycle and all.....because that is where this government is heading, you will have to have health insurance.....then lets see who you are calling pricks!

This isn't about health - this is accident cover. You're really making an arse of yourself, but it's typical of the Labour losers to be uninformed - if they were informed they wouldn't vote Labour in the first place.

Contrary to what you claim, I had no difficulty whatsoever obtaining, at a lower premium with better cover than ACC, private accident injury insurance in '98 when we had a choice, thanks to National. That's the cold reality which crushes your groundless scaremongering.

[joha]

I'm pretty peeved about this ACC levy "covert" non-direct tax increases
but rather than just camp outside parliment or ride up and down queen st with signs yelling.

Lets just do it like French Farmers park our tractors (bikes)on mass, on the motorways and block up the system every rush hour, every day!!!

When the increase happens;...

Thoses that can still afford to own/ride will have to combat with an increase in car drivers on the road with no insurance, no WOF and or car REG and hence probably cause or be involved in more accidents.

ACC should provide a way of opting out and allow bike riders to seek a private insurance method with another company. ie Bike insurance!?

[kwaka_crasher]

Well, here's an interesting figure.

Acc claim


But, from here (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motor%20vehicle%20crashes%202008_Section%204%20Mot orcycle%20casualties%20and%20crashes.pdf)
(official and authorative source ) , total motorcycle casualties for 2008 were 1396 injured and 50 killed. Total 1446. Now unless my calculator has sprung a leak, that works out at $42876 average. For EVERY motorcycle crash. Including the minor ones, where the riders just given some sticking plaster and sent on his way.

Not at all sure that I believe that figure, in thes ense that it is probably true BUT massively inflated by a BIG contribution toward historical residual claims. Which the government have now said they can take till 2019, instead of 2012 , to fund. But ACC are ignoring the difference that extension would make to the levy. It works out at $100 less for ALL vehicles, but would be MUCh higher for bikes.

No doubt, their projections for motorcycle numbers and hence projected claims come from the recent steady rise in registrations, neglecting the fact that most of the rise has been due only to recent economic conditions. As such the liability will actually decline.

Here's (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet.pdf) another interesting figure.


"...riders of large motorcycles make up 32% of all casualties...".

It'd be interesting to see if the cost of that 32% is proportional to the proposed levy hike. I would say not.

[Ixion]

zero but you must go past the three month mark.Wife works NZ Post and thats how system works at the moment.Hold 12 and can lift after 3 etc.

The problem with this is if you want to licence it again within three months.

So, you exempt it for 6 months, after 4 months you want to go on a ride, so you want to licence it for a week, then put it back on exemption.. that's fine, you can do that, but that licensing terminates the exemption. So, if you want to go for another ride three weeks , you can't because you haven't got to the three month mark.

That might be something we can argue for, to have bikes released from continuous licensing.

[kwaka_crasher]

reading the ACC stats doesn't actually state who (or what) was AT FAULT in each crash; e.g: there were 66 injury crashes on straight sections of road, but that doesn't explain whether it was the riders fault or not, there is no indication of that at all, (as far as I can decipher)

a point worth making if you choose to make a submission

This (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet.pdf) does.

[GazzaRuney]

Bikers of the world unite!!! Guys its time for a wee bit of civil disobedience, go to all the protests, write to your MP etc etc and if you are really committed to this cause, do what I'm going to do........

DON'T PAY IT!!!!!

If none of us pay it, what are they going to do?

And I love the idea of another brother biker before - every single guy/gal with two wheels, logjam your town/city by parking your bike(s) on the main roads and cripple the road system until those fuckwits at Parliament listen. When the froggies did that a few years ago not only did it totally jam Paris up for miles around, it cost the French economy billions !!!!

Lets do it!!!!!!

[mnkyboy]

:Oi:SO who subsidies the push bike claims, they don't pay a penny in levies! So much for a No-Fault system! I hate they way they have twisted the figures and claim that $62million was claimed for accidents caused by motorcyclists, don't they mean accidents involving motorcyclists? remove the money where other vehicles were found to be at fault and money for tourist accidents and then what is the true claim for local NZ motorcyclists?
You could go one step further and suggest if alcohol or speed were a factor refuse cover as they would be criminals and breaking the law so should be entitled to help. That would give a true realistic cost and I suspect it would mess up their argument!:Playnice:

from http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Cyclist-Crash-Factsheet.pdf

In 2007, 12 cyclists were killed, 181 were seriously injured and 699 suffered minor injuries in policereported crashes on New Zealand roads. The total social cost of police-reported crashes involving cyclists was approximately $172 million. That is about 5 percent of the social cost associated with all
injury crashes in 2007.

How bout a tax on all cycle gear to cover ACC - Could include other sports as well. (ie. Rugby boots, snowboards etc.)

Either that or take out ACC from rego's and add it as an average to fuel costs, Fuel might be $1 a litre more but oh well.

[k2w3]

Current headline on front of Herald's website: "Large Pay Rises for Top Public Servants".

Brilliant timing.

[dipshit]

That is about 5 percent of the social cost associated with all injury crashes in 2007.

How bout a tax on all cycle gear to cover ACC - Could include other sports as well. (ie. Rugby boots, snowboards etc.)

Social cost is not the same as ACC costs.

Social cost is loss of earnings and taxes of a potential worker etc.

[k2w3]

The reason it won't be added as an additional tax on fuel is that it would be seen to be too sweeping, too encompassing and anti-business. The National Govt won't want to be seen doing that. Easier to target groups they consider "voiceless" or some other minority.

It's a numbers game.

However I think they've underestimated the depth of feeling and the breadth of people from all incomes and all levels of society that enjoy riding.

[kwaka_crasher]

The freckin National Govt will put the fines up pretty quick!!

Then the scabs like council parking wardens will pounce for no rego as well!!

My wife went to Auck for a course yesterday. The Auck City Council Maggots where still on the bus lane with their camera taking pics and ticketing even though the buses where on strike!! Maggots!!

As a side issue, "The freckin National Govt" you hate so much has just added a regulation allowing use of a bus lane for 100m when turning, in the Land Transport (Road User) Amendment Rule [2009] (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/consultation/road-user-amendment/docs/draft-road-user-amendment.pdf) instead of the ridiculous situation that currently exists and varies from Local Authority to Local Authority (75m in North Shore, nothing in Auckland). That comes into force on 1 November. Bet you must really hate them now. Those bastards, going and simplifying stuff, to my benefit!

[jimbo600]

And this just to really make you gag

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2968425/Public-sector-pay-rises-beat-recession

[mnkyboy]

Social cost is not the same as ACC costs.

Social cost is loss of earnings and taxes of a potential worker etc.

I realise this, but we as "motor vehicles" are being targeted to cover other activities. Why just the rego (cynicism says it's the easiest target) why not anyone else.

Could we not pass on some responsibility to the other users of the ACC system.

I am not unhappy that we have to pay more because we are more at risk, My beef is simply that we have been singled out so heavily.

[mossy1200]

MOSSY GETS RICH PRINTING COUNTERFEIT REGO LABELS.:banana:

Put yours on hold and ill zap you a $50 replica.

[kwaka_crasher]

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motor%20vehicle%20crashes%202008_Section%204%20Mot orcycle%20casualties%20and%20crashes.pdf

Table 33 and 34.

I was wrong too. Fatalities are about 40% cornering related, not 50%.

But that's 40% of ALL fatal crashes, regardless of fault. And only 25% of ALL injury crashes occur on corners. There is no information as to how many of those 40% and 25% were single vehicle accidents.

Liars, damn liars and statisticians.

[rosie631]

I rang the Motor Registration Centre in Palmy today.......I asked what was the minimum time you can reg a bike for if the rego is on hold. "You can specify a time and there is no lower limit". So, I'm going to put our bikes on hold for the darker six months of the year (say June-Nov) and if an event comes up and the weather looks good just rego' the bikes for a few days.

It might be a pain but worth it for the savings. Fuck 'em.

Might even do it for the V8 now too.

When I've tried this in the past I have found that if you try and re register within 3 months of putting rego on hold they will ping you back to the date you put it on hold. e.g. if you put on hold for 12 months then need to re register after 2months you will be charged for the 2 months that is was already on hold. Dunno if that makes sense. Bit hard to explain.

[rosie631]

Also I'm pretty sure that if a vehicle has been on hold, when you re register you have to do it for a minimum of 3 months. Don't worry the fuckers will get you whichever way you turn. I'm just sticking mine on hold for 12 months and take the risk.

[rosie631]

I rang the Motor Registration Centre in Palmy today.......I asked what was the minimum time you can reg a bike for if the rego is on hold. "You can specify a time and there is no lower limit". So, I'm going to put our bikes on hold for the darker six months of the year (say June-Nov) and if an event comes up and the weather looks good just rego' the bikes for a few days.

It might be a pain but worth it for the savings. Fuck 'em.

Might even do it for the V8 now too.

Oops, sorry, just re read your post. I was told that too - no lower limit - but when I went to reregister the 'system' wouldn't process it for anything less that 3 months. Otherwise would be awesome, have bike on permanent hold and just register for the day each weekend.

[Swoop]

Seeing the look on Cagers faces while we shut down main roads - Priceless

There are some things you cant do in a cage. For everything else, There's motorbikes. "
Using the term "cagers" will get you blank looks. They don't know the meaning of the word.

Then the scabs like council parking wardens will pounce for no rego as well!
How will they know who the bike belongs to if you do not have a plate...

In 2007, ... cyclists ... and 699 suffered minor injuries ...
What? Lycra chafe??

[k2w3]

And how do you prove to the towing company the bike is yours after they've towed it?

[dipshit]

But that's 40% of ALL fatal crashes, regardless of fault. And only 25% of ALL injury crashes occur on corners. There is no information as to how many of those 40% and 25% were single vehicle accidents.

Liars, damn liars and statisticians.


So how many motorcyclists failing to take a corner accidents are car driver's fault..? :weird:

[peasea]

Oops, sorry, just re read your post. I was told that too - no lower limit - but when I went to reregister the 'system' wouldn't process it for anything less that 3 months. Otherwise would be awesome, have bike on permanent hold and just register for the day each weekend.

I do understand what you're saying and it makes me want to clarify things with the MRC. I'll take the time to do that in writing. Meanwhile, I will rego the machines for as long as possible under the current regime (or is that Reich?) and perhaps just take a punt when we're on hold next year. As many have stated, 200 bucks is probably worth the gamble but I will warn everyone;

I was privvy to a sheet of paper a while back showing the number of times my number plate had been checked (half a dozen or more) by police and I think only once was I stopped. The rest were 'rolling' checks as I was riding. They know if the bike is reported stolen and if you're rego'd and WOF'd before they pull you, if they pull you.

[peasea]

So how many motorcyclists failing to take a corner accidents are car driver's fault..? :weird:

You're right. Let he who is without sin and all that....many riders are their own worst enemy and possibly ours too.

[Ixion]

If you put the rego on hold (minimum is three months) and then want to licence it within the first three months, you have to pay backdated to when you put it on hold.

Once the three months is up, you can licence it for an period, a day if you want, there is no minimum.

But you have to get to the three month line .

[k2w3]

Ixion, if you do choose a day, then it's "off" again for a further 3-month minimum?

[Ixion]

Correct. That's the problem. Each time you licence it , you have to restart the process.

(unless the bike is over 40 years old)

[k2w3]

Then I think this is where the Govt are going to come unstuck. Bottom line is that they need more cash. If they'd upped the levies by a reasonable amount, there would have been little complaint. By announcing these over-the-top changes I think even moderate law-abiding riders are now looking for clever ways of avoiding the charges, to the point where even breaking the law is looking like a worthwhile option.

This will, of course, lower the overall tax take.

[reofix]

Stop making so many claims on your insurance and the premiums go down ... this whole angry reaction is just head in sand stuff... keep the bugger upright and your premiums will go down ( and mine too!!)

[dpex]

I wonder if Key and his lot are playing a very clever game; ergo, make hugely controversial statements, attack a small group with Bunker-bomb, then sit back and wait for the screams. This then paves the way for an ever-so-reasonable reassessment of proposals, prefaced of course with, 'The fact is we have to do something to turn the tide of the ACC shortfall.'

You will notice, of course, that no mention is being made of the fact that ACC itself lost billions by investing our insurance money in dodgy overseas corporations.

I have noticed a number of commentators suggest the new charges are still excellent buck-bangs compared to....car travel, trains, buses, carparks, et al.

THAT IS NOT THE POINT!

The point is we bikers are being used in a clever, cynical way to pave the road for dramatic reductions in ACC payments across the board.

$10k for remembered sexual molestation? No proof required? $10k for rape. No proof required. $5k for a lopped off finger? Full medical cover for a rugby injury?

It would be interesting to learn how many folk developed back-problems of such severity, prior to ACC beginning, as opposed to now.

Somewhere in Smith's speeches regarding this issue he asserted ACC had become an extension of social welfare.

And so it has. It is this issue which they are wishing to clear out. To do so they need loads of rage to be displayed by those about to be put-upon unreasonably.

Only then can they decently recant and go after the real targets....The bludgers and the undeserving.

So, let's help them with their plan by doing what Minto and his lot did back in '81.

For 56 days in July, August and September 1981, New Zealanders were divided against each other in the largest civil disturbance seen since the 1951 waterfront dispute. More than 150,000 people took part in over 200 demonstrations in 28 centres, and 1500 were charged with offences stemming from these protests.

Sure, they didn't stop the tour but they did stop any further sporting contact with South Africa till apartheid was dismantled.

I was there, in Sandringham Rd, when Ross Meurant's lot, The Red Squad, attacked.

Woooo! What a rumble, and all for folk most Kiwis had never met.

But the fact was, 150,000 Kiwis demanded their voices were heard.

And so, first up is to find out exactly how much road-bikers contribute to ACC costs. Then match that against other contributors who pay no specific ACC. Then start the protests but not on behalf of just bikers, but all others who are being put upon due to ACC payment excess, ACC mismanagement, and ACC bludgers.

That way we would get the disaffected motorists (those we hold up on every motorway, every weekday for 51 days) to buy into the fact that all ordinary folk are being ruthlessly and baselessly penalised for the malfaction of others.

[Winston001]

I don't like it any better than you and we should oppose the increase. But lets face reality - most people have nothing to do with motorbikes. We are a small section of the total population, no economic or political clout, easy to pick on.

I agree that we need better data to sift out whether motorcyclists actually cost ACC as much as calculated. For example, are farm accidents with 4 wheelers included?

[Madmax]

away better job of smiths dream
:2guns:

[4lakavat]

Just venting
What do farm bikes have to pay? that have accidents too. maybe cycleists that that ride on the road should register there bikes to they fall of and go on acc too.
So much for people trying to be more ecomonical and "GREEN" by commuting to work. Whats the point if we have topay so much rego, may as well buy a V8 burn fuel and rip the roads up make sure im getting my munys worth.
Most accidents r caused by cars hitting bikes, or bikes avoiding cars. Or better yet SHIT road conditions

[Mom]

Just venting
What do farm bikes have to pay? that have accidents too.

Have a read up on what is proposed. Farmers are going to hammered too, Federated Farmers came out today squealing about the proposed increses to their members.

[kwaka_crasher]

So how many motorcyclists failing to take a corner accidents are car driver's fault..? :weird:

Very apt choice of handle you have there - you are indeed a dipshit. If you read the table, the "Movement Classification" title is "While cornering". There's no mention of failing to take a corner.

[rosie631]

Once the three months is up, you can licence it for an period, a day if you want, there is no minimum.



Are you sure about this? I bought a car that had its rego on hold. I changed ownership and then tried to register it for one month. The NZ post staff weren't aware that I couldn't do it but each time they tried to process it for one month the computer spat it out. In the end they rang the higher ups who said when coming off hold you have to register for a minimum of 3 months. The computer took the 3 months no problem.

[Pedrostt500]

They do not wish to take on the heavy transport industry, for obvious reasons, most car drivers would just roll over and pay what ever was asked, but motorcyclists are another kettle of fish, they know we won't take it lying down, their best target, and one they can demonise in the eyes of Joe and Joan public.

[Bren]

Well, what about recreational sports then....how are we gonna get all the jocks playing rugby every week to pay for their fair share....:mad:

Recreational sport also contributes to ACC, but do they pay?????:mad:

The Govt is a bunch of wankers that think we,as a minority, cannot do nothing about it!!!!

Farkin Tossers

[MadDuck]

Recreational sport also contributes to ACC, but do they pay?????:mad:

But every time you/we get a payslip it has on there a deduction for ACC Levy. Now my understanding is this is to cover us in our homes and in our sport should we chose to get involved.

This levy is also set to rise with the new ACC proposal.

[Katman]

Have a read up on what is proposed. Farmers are going to hammered too, Federated Farmers came out today squealing about the proposed increses to their members.

Quite rightly too.

I have been horrified at the number of farm bikes that have 'graced' my workshop in an appallingly unsafe state.

Trying to convince the farmer that the list of repairs are all necessary to bring the bike up to a safe standard can be hugely frustrating.

The trouble is - half the time the tight pricks aren't the ones riding the bikes anyway. It's their unsuspecting farm workers.

[Bren]

The trouble is - half the time the tight pricks aren't the ones riding the bikes anyway. It's their unsuspecting farm workers.

Tell me about it...I was one of them workers years agop....and had a tight arse dutch employer...my bike did not even have a working headlight....and one morning slammed right into a gate that should have been open...it wasn't

[cs363]

Quite rightly too.

I have been horrified at the number of farm bikes that have 'graced' my workshop in an appallingly unsafe state.

Trying to convince the farmer that the list of repairs are all necessary to bring the bike up to a safe standard can be hugely frustrating.

The trouble is - half the time the tight pricks aren't the ones riding the bikes anyway. It's their unsuspecting farm workers.

Yep, anyone that's spent time working in a bike shop - especiallly in rural areas would agree 100% with that Katman.
Not only that but the farmers push the bikes and in particular ATV's way beyond what they were ever designed for and very few bother with Ag helmets. The only time most workshops see the bikes is when they are in such a state they won't actually operate.
Of course there are exceptions but they are few and far between.

[cs363]

Just venting
What do farm bikes have to pay? that have accidents too. maybe cycleists that that ride on the road should register there bikes to they fall of and go on acc too.
So much for people trying to be more ecomonical and "GREEN" by commuting to work. Whats the point if we have topay so much rego, may as well buy a V8 burn fuel and rip the roads up make sure im getting my munys worth.
Most accidents r caused by cars hitting bikes, or bikes avoiding cars. Or better yet SHIT road conditions

Cyclists are a major drain on ACC, just check out these figures: http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/statistics/acc-injury-statistics-2008/20-sport-claims/IS0800367

Motorcycles aren't even near the top of the list. (Cost figures in the far right column are hundreds of thousands...i.e. add ,000 to the figure shown....)

[McDuck]

But every time you/we get a payslip it has on there a deduction for ACC Levy. Now my understanding is this is to cover us in our homes and in our sport should we chose to get involved.

This levy is also set to rise with the new ACC proposal.

Road riding is my sport..... :(

[kiwi cowboy]

I don't like it any better than you and we should oppose the increase. But lets face reality - most people have nothing to do with motorbikes. We are a small section of the total population, no economic or political clout, easy to pick on.

I agree that we need better data to sift out whether motorcyclists actually cost ACC as much as calculated. For example, are farm accidents with 4 wheelers included?

I would say they were to get the worst figures possible for the shock factor.
Probably motorcross and trail bike accidents too id guess.

[5150]

so guess who was at fault? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ6FRMIKx3w

[cs363]

Stop making so many claims on your insurance and the premiums go down ... this whole angry reaction is just head in sand stuff... keep the bugger upright and your premiums will go down ( and mine too!!)

It could be argued that your stance is also head in the sand stuff, bow to this victimisation of a minority group and the present issues will be only the tip of the iceberg.
Remember, as per Rick Barker's argument - this is supposedly a no fault system.

[kwaka_crasher]

Are you sure about this? I bought a car that had its rego on hold. I changed ownership and then tried to register it for one month. The NZ post staff weren't aware that I couldn't do it but each time they tried to process it for one month the computer spat it out. In the end they rang the higher ups who said when coming off hold you have to register for a minimum of 3 months. The computer took the 3 months no problem.

Yes, he's correct - there is no provision for a minimum 3 month period of vehicle licencing under any regulation.

Also when the registered owner is changed on a vehicle that has a current exemption to continuous licensing - the 3 month minimum exemption period does not apply if the new registered owner then relicences it. Also if it has outstanding licence fees they don't have to be paid before the new registered owner can relicence it - they are the liability of the previous owner who incurred them.

[rosie631]

Yes, he's correct - there is no provision for a minimum 3 month period of vehicle licencing under any regulation.

Also when the registered owner is changed on a vehicle that has a current exemption to continuous licensing - the 3 month minimum exemption period does not apply if the new registered owner then relicences it. Also if it has outstanding licence fees they don't have to be paid before the new registered owner can relicence it - they are the liability of the previous owner who incurred them.

That's weird then. Maybe their computer was playing up but that was what the girl was told when she rang up too.

[325rocket]

i have it on good authority that Nick Smith is shitting himself about mass bike protests.

[cs363]

i have it on good authority that Nick Smith is shitting himself about mass bike protests.

Interesting, please expand....

[325rocket]

Interesting, please expand....

just had a man come around to pick up something we sold on trademe. He apologised for being late and said it was due to his work being in 'crisis mode'. I asked him if he worked for acc and he does. I then told him Nick Smith was a knob jockey and he said that he (Nick Smith) is very concerned about mass bike protests, especially at parliament.

[StoneY]

Yep mate in Parliament Security (who is never to be mentioned) said theyve already started briefing them on expected biker mass arrivals

They been told to be courteous to us!!!!:clap:

[cs363]

just had a man come around to pick up something we sold on trademe. He apologised for being late and said it was due to his work being in 'crisis mode'. I asked him if he worked for acc and he does. I then told him Nick Smith was a knob jockey and he said that he (Nick Smith) is very concerned about mass bike protests, especially at parliament.


Yep mate in Parliament Security (who is never to be mentioned) said theyve already started briefing them on expected biker mass arrivals

They been told to be courteous to us!!!!:clap:

Excellent! :2thumbsup Muahahahahaahah!


http://www.financialfreedumb.com/images/DrEvil.jpg

[MadDuck]

just had a man come around to pick up something we sold on trademe. He apologised for being late and said it was due to his work being in 'crisis mode'. I asked him if he worked for acc and he does. I then told him Nick Smith was a knob jockey and he said that he (Nick Smith) is very concerned about mass bike protests, especially at parliament.


Yep mate in Parliament Security (who is never to be mentioned) said theyve already started briefing them on expected biker mass arrivals

They been told to be courteous to us!!!!:clap:

BUGGER! OK which KBer told them we were coming ah, ah, ah?

Yous fellas cant keep a secret or summit?

[wolf.47]

This is bullshit, don't let them tax us off the road, every one on two wheels needs to let there voice be herd.

[Hopeful Bastard]

Hrm.. Looks like we were at wrong again were we ? :no:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuuzw3tzp5U

[rideon]

carver and sidewinder can organise Hamilton one as long as they don't pull wheelies on protest rides.


OR lead us up n over the humps of the fairfeild bridge :2thumbsup:2thumbsup

Tried to read this whole thread but gave up @ page 20 or so. Thought I saw some maths somewhere that there were about 10,000 road registered bikes in NZ. Has anyone thought how many ATV's there are in NZ, on farms & recreationally?? From memory I think there are about 14,000 dairy farms , most of which would have at least 1 ATV. 14,000 ATV's not counting the sheep and cattle farms that would have 1 as well, & 2 wheel dirt bikes added to the total . Would have to be in excess of 20,000 bikes easily!! This sector it would be fair to say have their fair share of "misfortune". Farming accidents stats feature at the top of the most dangerous occupations list. Is the cost of those accidents being lumped into the total ACC cost of 'bike' accidents & if so some thought needs to be put into recovering some of that cost from the users (abusers) of ATV's.
Was a sharemilker with 2 ATV's & had staff that did DUMB DUMB things on them, one of them ending up in hospital!! No rego's on them then , either !!

[peasea]

Yep mate in Parliament Security (who is never to be mentioned) said theyve already started briefing them on expected biker mass arrivals

They been told to be courteous to us!!!!:clap:

I think we should all rock up with our number plates upside down. (And a crate of eggs each.)

[peasea]

OR lead us up n over the humps of the fairfeild bridge :2thumbsup:2thumbsup

Tried to read this whole thread but gave up @ page 20 or so. Thought I saw some maths somewhere that there were about 10,000 road registered bikes in NZ. Has anyone thought how many ATV's there are in NZ, on farms & recreationally?? From memory I think there are about 14,000 dairy farms , most of which would have at least 1 ATV. 14,000 ATV's not counting the sheep and cattle farms that would have 1 as well, & 2 wheel dirt bikes added to the total . Would have to be in excess of 20,000 bikes easily!! This sector it would be fair to say have their fair share of "misfortune". Farming accidents stats feature at the top of the most dangerous occupations list. Is the cost of those accidents being lumped into the total ACC cost of 'bike' accidents & if so some thought needs to be put into recovering some of that cost from the users (abusers) of ATV's.
Was a sharemilker with 2 ATV's & had staff that did DUMB DUMB things on them, one of them ending up in hospital!! No rego's on them then , either !!

Rego' the fuckin lot I say.

[sugilite]

Yes, they will have been totally expecting the protest ride the moment they started talking about doing this. (And hell yeah they going to get one or three!)

I've been thinking of other ways we could protest, while not getting offside with the public. Politicians really notice a hit to the pocket. I Was wondering if one way to cost them money, would be to on mass hit them with co-ordinated requests for information using the Official Information act, each one signed with your own name and "concerned motorcyclist" to tag it to everyone else's. Call it legal civil disobedience :devil2:

The hard part if course would be the co-ordination, getting everyone to ask for different information, in order to inflict maximum $$$ damage on the Government.
I personally do not know enough about the act, and how the above plan could be putting it into full effect, so are just putting the idea out there, who knows it could trigger a better way of doing it again.
Are there any Government Legislation and procedure savey KB'ers out there?

It "might" be the way for KB to make a mighty contribution to protecting our way of life :yes:

[Rayray401]

KB dont do things the civilised way? like petitions? damn, not very surprised at all.

[Ender EnZed]

Yes, they will have been totally expecting the protest ride the moment they started talking about doing this. (And hell yeah they going to get one or three!)

I've been thinking of other ways we could protest, while not getting offside with the public. Politicians really notice a hit to the pocket. I Was wondering if one way to cost them money, would be to on mass hit them with co-ordinated requests for information using the Official Information act, each one signed with your own name and "concerned motorcyclist" to tag it to everyone else's. Call it legal civil disobedience :devil2:

The hard part if course would be the co-ordination, getting everyone to ask for different information, in order to inflict maximum $$$ damage on the Government.
I personally do not know enough about the act, and how the above plan could be putting it into full effect, so are just putting the idea out there, who knows it could trigger a better way of doing it again.
Are there any Government Legislation and procedure savey KB'ers out there?

It "might" be the way for KB to make a mighty contribution to protecting our way of life :yes:

The public pays for the government so this would still upset people.

[rocketman1]

Bikers!
There needs to be some recognition by ACC of those bikers that have not had accidents and have not been caught with traffic infringements.
The insurance companies can organise this with a few seconds when you ring them up surely ACC can arrange the same criteria.
Lets the user with the bad record pay.
There are alot of good motorcyclists out there that are going to have to pay for the reckless few.
Also there needs to be some sense to charging the rider rather than the bike.
For those with a few bikes, it will cost thousands to rego them all, not fair at all.
You can only ride one bike at a time...Charge the fees to the rider.
Plus put some content of the ACC fees into higher petrol taxes, the more you ride or drive the more you pay.

[Danae]

Stick the ACC levy on your license. One license, many vehicles, one ACC levy.

However this does not cover the issue with the rugby players and weekend sports injuries...

[sugilite]

The public pays for the government so this would still upset people.

Yes, but a whole lot less than a traffic/parking Victorian style protest.


KB dont do things the civilised way? like petitions? damn, not very surprised at all.

Personally, I don't think a petition will have them quaking in their boots.

[Reckless]

Not sure if one protest ride will do this. They'll weather the storm wait for the rukus to die down and pass the law anyway.
Do ya reckon there's enough support to make a Auckland to Wellington ride really successful? Big commitment in time and money for most. Will we get the big crowds? Might be better to do it regionally. Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch etc
Look just an idea all, but people might be more committed to block the Wtgn motorway, Christchurch town center or Auckland Harbour bridge for a day than a big trip!

My other thought is If anyone bloody falls off on this trip that will be all the evidence they need to prove their case, then media will make a mockery of the thing. We don't want it to be seen as a hooligan type trip, their are some hotheads amongst us. Look what some guys did on the Cheescutter ride? This is to important to bugger up!

Look not trying to put the mocker on any ideas but we do have to be very careful!

[StoneY]

Even if we were forced to have private riders insurance, and remove the ACC compnent from our Rego all together and have it to cover ONE eventuality....a ROAD injury, I could accept that

One fee one rider......... and calculate a value for potential pillions into that riders policy maybe...there must be a fair way to address it

its the bloody fee per vehicle I protest
Car and 2 BIG bikes

I have kids to feed too

[peasea]

Not sure if one protest ride will do this. They'll weather the storm wait for the rukus to die down and pass the law anyway.
Do ya reckon there's enough support to make a Auckland to Wellington ride really successful? Big commitment in time and money for most. Will we get the big crowds? Might be better to do it regionally. Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch etc
Look just an idea all, but people might be more committed to block the Wtgn motorway, Christchurch town center or Auckland Harbour bridge for a day than a big trip!

My other thought is If anyone bloody falls off on this trip that will be all the evidence they need to prove their case, then media will make a mockery of the thing. We don't want it to be seen as a hooligan type trip, their are some hotheads amongst us. Look what some guys did on the Cheescutter ride? This is to important to bugger up!

Look not trying to put the mocker on any ideas but we do have to be very careful!

Have to agree 100%.
A mass ride to the Beehive one day but follwed up by many regional rides, perhaps to local MP's offices etc. Most people shop on a Saturday morning nowadays, that'd be a good time to get the public's attention. Also, these rides should happen NOW! Strike while the media iron is hot and everyone is on the ball. Leave it too long and nobody will give a rats arse.

What about Nov 7th? Save your fireworks up and chuck them at the politicians?

[Madmax]

He's dedicated the past week to irresponsible scaremongering on ACC in order to gain public support for excessive changes to the scheme, without bothering to ensure he can even pass the legislation."
BURN THEM ALL

[Katman]

My other thought is If anyone bloody falls off on this trip that will be all the evidence they need to prove their case, then media will make a mockery of the thing. We don't want it to be seen as a hooligan type trip, their are some hotheads amongst us. Look what some guys did on the Cheescutter ride? This is to important to bugger up!



I think if anyone were to pull a stupid stunt this time around on an organised protest ride they should be repeatedly fucked up the arse with a red-hot poker by every other motorcyclist in NZ.

[peasea]

Even if we were forced to have private riders insurance, and remove the ACC compnent from our Rego all together and have it to cover ONE eventuality....a ROAD injury, I could accept that

One fee one rider......... and calculate a value for potential pillions into that riders policy maybe...there must be a fair way to address it

its the bloody fee per vehicle I protest
Car and 2 BIG bikes

I have kids to feed too

Sympathy/empathy mate.
We have two bikes, one each. I use mine quite a bit and frequently on a day-to-day basis. We have two cars. One is a shopping trolley and the other a tourer. Yes, we love to tour on two wheels or four. At best we can only operate two machines at once, why should we pay for four. The current proposal would see us shelling out 417 for each car and 745 for each bike, right? 2324 p/a means just under 45 p/w just in rego costs. Tyres just went up with a bump, good safety gear isn't cheap, oil, filters, wets, gloves, you name it. Each and every item attracts GST and now this? ya gotta fight back some time. Now is that time.

[peasea]

I think if anyone were to pull a stupid stunt this time around on an organised protest ride they should be repeatedly fucked up the arse with a red-hot poker by every other motorcyclist in NZ.

Why wait for it to be glowing? Just chuck it up there..........

[Naki Rat]

Or is it possible that the government have a more important bit of legislation that they want to slip past us so they use the ACC issue as a distraction.

What's with the Criminal Surveillance Bill that is lurking in the shadows presently :shifty:

[MadDuck]

OMG...thats sooooo funny. Pack up the kids the NZ gummint has a secret agenda and it involves motorcylists....nuclear ships are coming...P will be made legal.

Get your emergency kits and head for the hills...or Australia.

JEEZ GET REAL!

Great pisstake come troll...love it

[fireliv]

Completely agree with you Griffin. National has always been against ACC, this is a way of getting rid of it.

It has its faults but I dont think that it is a completely worthless system. They just need to get money out of the people that use it the most, IE sport related injued people, and alcohol related injured people

[SARGE]

The Fat Cats in power will be sitting in the Beehive looking out their window and waiting for the rumble of a hundred thousand motorbikes... and when that happens, they will be rubbing their chubby little hands together.

wont be if they see a hundred thousand motorbikes with softball bats strapped to the pillion seats :bash:

[ready4whatever]

The biggest fuckin cover up since the roswell space craft

[Griffin]

OMG...thats sooooo funny. Pack up the kids the NZ gummint has a secret agenda and it involves motorcylists....nuclear ships are coming...P will be made legal.

Get your emergency kits and head for the hills...or Australia.

JEEZ GET REAL!

Great pisstake come troll...love it

Hmmm... yeah - you're right. Silly me, when has a government EVER done anything underhand in order to get what it wants... what was I thinking. :shutup:

[fresh trax]

The government has had this on their agenda for some time. They have a neo liberal approach that means that their goal is to limit the role of the state and of course make services more user pay. This has been on their agenda for years and they now are in a confidence and supply agreement which can go in the publics favour as the maori party has a more social developmental view. The more submissions sent the better, forming a group to put pressure on the government will help so that they do this in a more realistic way across the board and not heavily target motorcyclists. The good thing is that because this has rocked the boat between the parties it has slowed the whole process down - they will try and push this through as quick as possible. They are also dismantelling the education, health and welfare systems and they have for years talked about privitiising acc and this is keeping them on track. This is about their values and goals and not about the recession - that is a smokescreen for them wanting to change institutions in our country. Generally this means the poor or marginalised get pinned

[ckai]

Surely everyone has seen this before but this would be perfect.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sBlzahb_Q7E&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sBlzahb_Q7E&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Mas-group to paliament, all those that can't travel down (or up), go to their local MP's office, at the stroke of [insert time here] fire up the steads and give NZ a bit of a rumble.

[Elysium]

Hmmmm cover the Beehive with a smoke screen?

[5150]

I think the logical thing to do for the goverment would be:

Remove ACC levy from all vehicle regos
Make third party insurance compulsary
Tag on ACC levy to insurance, which would be then calculated on individuals risk taking into account your safety record, infringments etc.

What this would do is take away the argument from who was at fault, bikers or cagers. As when you put a claim in they will straight away know who was at fault. so if biker at fault your ACC levy gets affected, if cager was at fault then they pay higher levy.

I think this would be the only fair way of proportioning the ACC levy.

On the other hand cyclists should pay ACC levy for privelage of using public roads. If they want to moan about inconsiderate drivers then they should pay up too. Otherwise stay the fuck off the road, and don't expect people caring if you ride like a twat and someone else runs into you or opens the car door.

My 2 cents:Oi:

[samgab]

I wonder if Key and his lot are playing a very clever game; ergo, make hugely controversial statements, attack a small group with Bunker-bomb, then sit back and wait for the screams. This then paves the way for an ever-so-reasonable reassessment of proposals, prefaced of course with, 'The fact is we have to do something to turn the tide of the ACC shortfall.'...

And it begins...
http://www.3news.co.nz/ACC-Minister-says-talks-needed-over-motorcycle-increases/tabid/209/articleID/125671/Default.aspx?ArticleID=125671

[Ragingrob]

Just saw on the nightline preview that Rodney Hyde has pulled his party out of support of ACC as he disagrees with the changes entirely.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Politics/Story/tabid/419/articleID/125578/cat/67/Default.aspx

:2thumbsup

[Swoop]

I think the logical thing to do for the goverment would be:

Remove ACC levy from all vehicle regos...
Small drawback with that plan... the gubbinment will never do something that will reduce the tax intake.

It's all about $$$'s.

[rosie631]

We may be screwed after all. I was planning on putting rego on hold and riding anyway. cop the fine if I get caught. However I have just spoken to the insurance company. Harley Davidson Insurance underwritten by Swann. I asked if you are still covered for an accident if the bike is unregistered or rego is on hold. They will NOT cover you. Bike will be covered for fire and theft but NOT for accident because you would be on the road illegally. That changes things a lot for me. Now thinking I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and pay the fucking thing. Anyone actually spoken to any other insurance companies about this??

[cowpatz]

John Key will be opening the information centre in kumeu this afternoon (Fri 16th Oct) at 2pm if anyone is interested in an informal protest over ACC levies.
The info centre is located opposite the Shell gas station at the southern entrance to Kumeu village.

[2wheeldrifter]

even if only a few show with a sign or two in the back ground would be good...

[Pixie]

It would be interesting to know how much we all actually pay in ACC levies. For me, it's 2 cars, 1 bike, wages, petrol. Probably a few more sneaky ways they're collecting it too. By the time all that's added up I am damn sure I could get it privately for less.
I work in the private health system and we used to do a lot of orthopaedic work for ACC. They have clamped right down on claims and are calling every injury they can 'wear and tear'. So basically we are paying a LOT more for sweet FUCK ALL.

Way more than if it was from a private insurance scheme.
For example: what insurance scheme for work accidents,bases the premium on how much you earn?
How the fuck does that affect risk?

[samgab]

We may be screwed after all. I was planning on putting rego on hold and riding anyway. cop the fine if I get caught. However I have just spoken to the insurance company. Harley Davidson Insurance underwritten by Swann. I asked if you are still covered for an accident if the bike is unregistered or rego is on hold. They will NOT cover you. Bike will be covered for fire and theft but NOT for accident because you would be on the road illegally. That changes things a lot for me. Now thinking I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and pay the fucking thing. Anyone actually spoken to any other insurance companies about this??

No insurance company is going to cover you if you were riding without current rego and crash. They're looking for any excuse NOT to pay out, and from their point of view, having no rego is a good one.

[Marmoot]

1. Against ACC levy increases.
2. Three-strike policy.
3. Zero tolerance to crime.
4. Auckland supercity.

I'll be switching my vote to ACT next election.

[6ft5]

I think the logical thing to do for the goverment would be:

Remove ACC levy from all vehicle regos
Make third party insurance compulsary
Tag on ACC levy to insurance, which would be then calculated on individuals risk taking into account your safety record, infringments etc.

What this would do is take away the argument from who was at fault, bikers or cagers. As when you put a claim in they will straight away know who was at fault. so if biker at fault your ACC levy gets affected, if cager was at fault then they pay higher levy.

I think this would be the only fair way of proportioning the ACC levy.

On the other hand cyclists should pay ACC levy for privelage of using public roads. If they want to moan about inconsiderate drivers then they should pay up too. Otherwise stay the fuck off the road, and don't expect people caring if you ride like a twat and someone else runs into you or opens the car door.

My 2 cents:Oi:

I vote for this idea, this way user pays will really come into effect. what about the "FAULT ISSUE". there should be a way to claim damages from the offending party?

[NighthawkNZ]

Tag on ACC levy to insurance, which would be then calculated on individuals risk taking into account your safety record, infringments etc.

in that case also remove it from PAYE... which covers what you do persoally including riding you bike or driving a car

[I-N-HORZ]

Motorcyclist or not your submission and support would be greatly appreciated by those of us who enjoy one of life's simple pleasures.
Let your voice be heard on behalf of a family member,a partner or your friends regarding the outrageous penalty being place upon motorcyclist across New Zealand.
Motorcycling is a hobby,a pleasure and a lifestyle enjoyed by thousands of citizens nationwide after a hard weeks work,being penalized in this manner is not deserving of the motorcycling public.
Your support is much appreciated.

Making a submission
ACC is encouraging New Zealanders and affected organisations to have their say.

Submissions must include: Your name
Your address
Your contact phone number(s)

You can send your submission: By post: Levy Consultation
ACC
PO Box 242
Wellington 6140
By fax: 04 918 4395
By email: consultation@acc.co.nz

Deadline for submissions: 5pm, 10 November 2009

Also you could copy and paste your e-mail to:
nick.smith@national.org.nz
john.key@national.org.nz
j.key@ministers.govt.nz

[Strider]

Why should a biker with 600cc or higher pay more for rego that say a 250 cc biker. When both bikes can reach up to a hundered ks or more and both come out with the same damage. I like to see where them ACC dicks or that MPs work that one out. How many bikers that get ACC are of road trail bikes or farm bike?
Maybe I should put two extra wheels on it and call it a car, or not reg it and only pay the $200 fine way cheaper than a reg would be.

[Ixion]

We may be screwed after all. I was planning on putting rego on hold and riding anyway. cop the fine if I get caught. However I have just spoken to the insurance company. Harley Davidson Insurance underwritten by Swann. I asked if you are still covered for an accident if the bike is unregistered or rego is on hold. They will NOT cover you. Bike will be covered for fire and theft but NOT for accident because you would be on the road illegally. That changes things a lot for me. Now thinking I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and pay the fucking thing. Anyone actually spoken to any other insurance companies about this??

Do a search this has been covered many times, such a clause is illegal under NZ insurance law . Then tell them to go read up their law.

[5150]

what about the "FAULT ISSUE". there should be a way to claim damages from the offending party?[/QUOTE]


I am am thinking something across that idea. I am thinking that would be a a small flat rate for everyone. then insurance can either give you rebate or load your levy according to your safety record, claims history etc.

[Hillbilly]

I was told of the ACC levy by my flatmate last night. I told him the same thing. Wew were living in ASussie for 6 years and never thought anything of the CTP. That's the way is was over there. That's the way it'll be over here from now on. In OZ registration was only AUD$100 or so. The rest was the CTP and GST! The Gov'ts made the change, and there aren't enough KBers with power, money or infulence to change anything - so get used to it. :baby:

The only positive thing is that big bike prices will fall as the sales will drop of dramatically.

[ready4whatever]

you get enough people jumping up and down and you can change anything

[MSTRS]

The only positive thing is that big bike prices will fall as the sales will drop of dramatically.

Not new ones, and poor bastards that have one to sell. Especially those on finance...

[Grahameeboy]

You must have a very good insurance company...or a dumb one.

Riding an unregistered no wof bike on the road is breaking the law.

Must be clued up people on the other end if they pay out.

Yeah but insurance is a "Contract" so breaking the Law in some cases (DIC not being one) does no necessarily void cover.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah but they do take into account the circumstances, where you were ect..ect..if ya aint got rego are ya suppose to be on the road? Can the insurance co decline by law or can't?

Circumstances "No".They look at breach of licence / fraud / DIC for eg. Even then the Insurance Law Reform Act covers depending on whether the policy breach was the cause of the accident.The Law of Contract applies

[mynameis]

Where is ACC's head office i think words/ protest required.

My katana is 673cc.... *facepalm*

I think car drivers should be covering us for some of it.

many times they are the cause so it balances out , the spokesperson for ACC said this themself less than a month ago on the herald website.

And let me guess theyve hiked ours up but they wont go putting car rego down by the claimed $70 it costs each car driver. my bet is it will remain the same or go up...

what a pack of wankers...

you guys going to sit back and let it happen, or should we get on closeup at 7 or campbell live with a group of bikers vs a spokesperson for ACC?

or are we all going to just talk shit on the internet and just sit here scratching our nuts instead.

Now you really have to get a perm and hit K Road skiddy :D

[spacemonkey]

1. Against ACC levy increases.
2. Three-strike policy.
3. Zero tolerance to crime.
4. Auckland supercity.

I'll be switching my vote to ACT next election.



Against the changes????
No the knee jerk joke party want it to be harsher in order to promote private health.
Quite frankly mr hide can go get fucked IMO! :mad::mad:


ACT leader Rodney Hide would not say which areas he would discuss with Dr Smith, but indicated he wanted the changes to go even further than those proposed

[jono035]

Against the changes????
No the knee jerk joke party want it to be harsher in order to promote private health.
Quite frankly mr hide can go get fucked IMO! :mad::mad:

Yeah, the ACT website says that one of their key issues is supporting ACC privatisation... The more they can sting people now with these levies (that are only needed because ACC has a lot of investments and in case they hadn't looked outside recently, it's a recession) the more likely they are to have support from people looking for a way out of the crushing cost of ACC.

They're trying to pull a fast one, don't let em. Stay focused!

[5150]

I say, we start our own political party "Bikers Party" and after we get enough support to get into parliament next term, we will start a campaign "Get Rid Of All The Cagers" Just imagine how much safer roads would be........

:ride:

[jono035]

I say, we start our own political party "Bikers Party" and after we get enough support to get into parliament next term, we will start a campaign "Get Rid Of All The Cagers" Just imagine how much safer roads would be........

:ride:

There are plenty of other causes that use the same reasoning, there are x many of us, if we made a part then with that much support we'd be in parliament!

I enjoy motorcycling, but it is in no way my main voting issue at the moment, nor is it ever likely to be. I imagine the same goes for 90% of motorcyclists (all the ones that don't use kiwibiker for instance).

If people weren't so willing to over-react and support changes that specifically punishes law abiding firearms owners for the actions of those who were already well outside the law then I might have a few small pieces of caring left to spare.

Apparently not, though.

[GOONR]

Something we knew already....

Researcher criticises motorbike levy logic (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2969309/Researcher-criticises-motorbike-levy-logic)

[Slyer]

Something we knew already....

Researcher criticises motorbike levy logic (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2969309/Researcher-criticises-motorbike-levy-logic)

ACC said riders were 16 per cent more likely than other road users to be involved in a crash.
Well they got that wrong already. Wasn't it meant to be 16 times?

[Reckless]

Well you gotta feel for the cyclists sometimes as well!! Poor bugger!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2971637/Cyclist-dies-after-hit-and-run

Will they put this in our stats as a bike accident
or
Just not record it!!

[MidnightMike]

Well you gotta feel for the cyclists sometimes as well!! Poor bugger!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2971637/Cyclist-dies-after-hit-and-run


That is unfortunate, couldn't have been riding with a better person in the circumstances though.

[PrincessBandit]

Just emailed my submission to ACC and also sent it to John Key and Nick Smith.

Now I just have to check my inbox (no, not with bated breath to see if they've replied already!) but to ensure that the mail hasn't been bounced back for any reason. I'd hate to assume it had gone only to find that it somehow didn't get through and I missed the deadline for snail mail........

[gsx83esd]

geez acc are arsholes i own an antique and only ride on special occasions (when the sun shines) i say lets all ride into the streets , clog the cities and show the pricks we mean business `!!!!!!!

[sinfull]

Did you see Key on the news saying, awww crikey that Rodney hyde has some good ideas, yes we will think about opening ACC up to privatisation (competition) !
And you still think we can stop this by talking !!
How far is he up the Maori parties arse, awww wait, could it be that he gave in on the .... What was that he gave them not just a day or so ago ? Crikey He gave Maori TV the world cup !!!
Obvious he has Acts vote, where is he with the Maori party ?
Last nights parliment sitting was just a handshake come piss up !!
The legislation allowing them to change the ACC levies will pass !
I'm packing my slingshot !!!

I say once more Bulls, See ya's on the bridge on labour monday Arvo at 4pm !
Have ya banner saying " No to ACC Levy hikes, No to privatisation, or, Hello Americanisation !!!
T shirts and banners welcome !
I will see all you other Davids there, i'll bring My slingshot !!!
__________________

[NighthawkNZ]

Did you see Key on the news saying,

Aww wow same post on how many threads?

[sinfull]

Aww wow same post on how many threads?
Awww ok haha so i got so depressed about all these threads on the fuggin subject (not to mention the fucking texts telling me to sign some stupid fucking petition, which i knew was so way behind the 8 ball anyway), cause this levy is just a freekin smoke screen) i went to the clubrooms and had a few !!!

I get forgetfull when i drink !!

How many ?

But i say any excuse for a party !!!
Cant speak for the rest the club but my neck says there's a good time to be had at one of ours !!!
Did i mention the party ?

[NighthawkNZ]

Awww ok haha so i got so depressed about all these threads on the fuggin subject (not to mention the fucking texts telling me to sign some stupid fucking petition, which i knew was so way behind the 8 ball anyway), cause this levy is just a freekin smoke screen) i went to the clubrooms and had a few !!!

I get forgetfull when i drink !!

How many ?


lol me to I confused which thread is what I need a drink...

[sinfull]

lol me to I confused which thread is what I need a drink...
I need to stop !!!!

[carver]

If you want stunts, better give the Mormon boys a call.


It's Fucking Carvers fault - there was no mention of this before he did that bridge stunt ..........

haha, i asked for a camera crew!


0 witnesses willing to squak

[The Everlasting]

As everyone else has said already....it does indeed suck,I bought my scooter only 2 months ago,for the reason that it's much cheaper to run than a car...well until now anyway.....:(

[PrincessBandit]

Just topically at the mo (on TV3 news) - boaties. Ad campaign starting tomorrow aimed at getting boaties to wear lifejackets all the time; do boat owners have ACC levies? (I'm ignorant here, never having owned a boat).

[jono035]

Just topically at the mo (on TV3 news) - boaties. Ad campaign starting tomorrow aimed at getting boaties to wear lifejackets all the time; do boat owners have ACC levies? (I'm ignorant here, never having owned a boat).

None of my boating family members do... That said, that may not necessarily actually mean anything :crazy:

Most of the cost involved in any of that would be coastguard stuff though I would think... I'm not familiar with how that is all funded, anyone here know?

[PrincessBandit]

sorry if repost, but just saw this on the interdweeb:

"Motorcycle accidents are creating escalating costs and New Zealand needs to decide who will pay, ACC Minister Nick Smith says in the face of anger from motorcyclists over incrasing levies.
Motor vehicle levies are set to rise from $287 to $317.80 under changes flagged by ACC yesterday. The increase will be collected in increased registration fees and petrol tax.
Moped owners face a jump in the licence portion of the ACC levy from $58.97 to $257.58 in 2010/11.
All petrol powered motorcycles currently pay $252.69.
The portion for motorcycles under 125cc will increase by $5, for 126-600cc it will increase to $511.43, and for those over 601cc it will rise by $493.08 to $745.77.
Non-petrol powered motorcycles also face significant increases.
Motorcyclists are unhappy with the changes.
Phil Garrett, director of Street and Sport Motorcycles in Christchurch, said most accidents involving motorcycles were caused by another vehicle.
Motorcyclists would rise up against the changes, he said.
Labour MP Rick Barker said the rise would prejudice motorcyclists.
"They will probably have to go to the bank manager to ride their bikes if Nick Smith has his way to try to afford the levies."
The ranking of motorcycles by cc rating did no take into account the relative power of a motorcycle - a 650cc vintage motorcycle would cost more than a 250cc modern one which was capable of doing more than 200km/hour, Mr Barker said.
It also did not take into account people who own more than one motorcycle.
"They can only ride one at a time," he said.
"How is it fair that a motorcyclist is knocked off their bike by a car and then they are charged much higher levies for the experience. That means the victim pays."
The changes were a plan to drive motorcycles off the road, Mr Barker said.
However, Dr Smith said there was a social trend of middle age baby boomers buying motorcycles and accidents costs were increasing too.
"The claim that it is cars that cause the accidents does not negate the debate... the cost of other motorcycle accidents far exceeds the proposed levy.
"I was at first quite taken aback at the size of the proposed increase but even more surprised at the actual claim's costs to ACC of motorcycle accidents"
The Government had not predetermined the appropriate increase per cc rating and encouraged people to have their say before submissions closed on November 10.
ACC said that in 2008/09 it paid more than $62 million for accidents involving motorcycles. It collected $12.3m in levies from motorcyclists in the same period.
NZPA"

[PrincessBandit]

mods feel free to infract if I've doubled (or tripled) up on other posts - so many to wade through!

[dipshit]

sorry if repost, but just saw this on the interdweeb:

Sadly our counterargument - "Phil Garrett, director of Street and Sport Motorcycles in Christchurch, said most accidents involving motorcycles were caused by another vehicle."... is incorrect.

All this does is to prove to the wider public that motorcyclists are irresponsible of their own behaviour... thus we will get everything we deserve without sympathy.

[Madmax]

plate turned around
and remounted so it flys behind the bike

[Ixion]

Sadly our counterargument - "Phil Garrett, director of Street and Sport Motorcycles in Christchurch, said most accidents involving motorcycles were caused by another vehicle."... is incorrect.

All this does is to prove to the wider public that motorcyclists are irresponsible of their own behaviour... thus we will get everything we deserve without sympathy.

Your logic is lunatic. Even if Mr Garrett is incorrect, the general public won't know that. And the figures are so arguable either way that only those (like you!) with an ingrained hatred of motorcyclists would react thus.

Mr Garretts argument is probably irrelevant, because of the no-fault thing, but that's a different matter entirely .

(BTW , you don't happen to work for the AA , do you)

[cs363]

Whilst not denying that we do have way too many single vehicle accidents (that better education and training would reduce, rather than hitting people in the pocket) there does seem to some truth to the argument that a reasonable proportion of accidents are caused by other vehicles, at least according to this researcher (who presumably knows what they're talking about , seeing as this is what they do all day:

Lamb said analysis of Ministry of Transport crash data showed 67 per cent of motorcycle accidents involved other drivers, and 60 per cent of those crashes were caused by the other driver

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/archived-stuff-sections/archived-national-sections/news/2969309/Researcher-criticises-motorbike-levy-logic

[dipshit]

Your logic is lunatic. Even if Mr Garrett is incorrect, the general public won't know that. And the figures are so arguable either way that only those (like you!) with an ingrained hatred of motorcyclists would react thus.

He is incorrect. No amount of burying your head in the sand will change that. And you don't think the politicians will do any research on the matter for a counterargument..??? I am sure they will put their findings out for the public to see as well to save face. The media have already been running articles (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10597333) along those lines anyhow.

And even if BRONZ and the bike industry manages to pull the wool over everybody's eyes once again... you are only going to create another generation of motorcyclists that believe your bullshit as well and continue to hit the roads thinking their shit doesn't stink and its all the car drivers fault. Nothing will change or improve until the next time the authorities decide to do something about it themselves.

[dipshit]

Lamb said analysis of Ministry of Transport crash data showed 67 per cent of motorcycle accidents involved other drivers, and 60 per cent of those crashes were caused by the other driver[/url]

Yes, but this is not news to anybody.

Out of multiple vehicle accidents it is 60% cars fault, 40% rider fault. A bit over half of multiple vehicle accidents with bikes was not the rider's fault. A good portion of them are though. And then you still have all the single vehicle motorcycle accidents on top of that. Have a look at it in pie graph on p 7 for visualisation. http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet.pdf

Only about 40% of all motorcycle accidents can solely be blamed on car drivers. This is quite different to "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers." People who say that are talking shit and are living in fantasyland.

[cs363]

Only about 40% of all the motorcycle accidents can solely be blamed on car drivers. This is quite different to "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers" People who say that are talking shit and are living in fantasyland.

Not arguing with that at all, hence my carefully worded post :)

I would go further too and say that many of the car versus bike accidents, whilst caused by an error on the car drivers fault (for example, pulling out in front of a bike) could be prevented by good defensive driving techniques, if taught as part of the licencing procedure.
I once saw a BBC documentary many years ago about road accidents and a high ranking Police officer that was the head of the accident investigation unit (or some-such) said something to the effect that almost all road accidents were avoidable.
Situational awareness is something that is sadly lacking in most drivers and riders.

[Ixion]

In fact the problem we have from an ACC aspect is not the number of crashes , or who's to blame . It's that we get hurt more.

In a non ACC world if a bike and a car collide, usually the biker gets hurt a lot worse than the car driver (yes, I know there are exceptions, I've seen thos epictures too).

So, if in our non ACC world, Car A collides with Bike X, and car A is to blame, then Biker X sues car driver A (or his insurance company does), and collects much money.

Whereas if Bike Y collides with car B, and Biker Y is to blame car B driver is probably unhurt. So he doesn't sue at all. (Biker Y is hurt of course , but being to blame can't sue anyone)

So, in a non ACC world , if cars and bikes were equally to blame for crashes, car drivers insurance companies would still end up paying out a lot more money than bikers. The insurance companies would say "We pay out a lot of money on account of car drivers, why can't they be like bikers, who cost us very little (in third party claims anyway)

But, our ACC system reverses this.

When Car A collides with Bike X, ACC don't care who is to blame. All they know is that Biker X has cost them money . And when Bike Y collides with car B , guess what , it's the biker that costs ACC again.

So, ACC say "We are paying out far too much money to bikers, why cna't they be like car drivers" . And , being bean oriented, they decide that they need to charge us more.

[dipshit]

Not arguing with that at all, hence my carefully worded post

We cannot afford to have idiots standing up in public and telling the media "waaaa... it's all the car drivers fault"

BRONZ have been doing it for years. So much so that even the majority of motorcyclists believe their bullshit.

And look where we are now.

[Winston001]

In fact the problem we have from an ACC aspect is not the number of crashes , or who's to blame . It's that we get hurt more.

In a non ACC world if a bike and a car collide, usually the biker gets hurt a lot worse than the car driver (yes, I know there are exceptions, I've seen thos epictures too).

So, if in our non ACC world, Car A collides with Bike X, and car A is to blame, then Biker X sues car driver A (or his insurance company does), and collects much money.

Whereas if Bike Y collides with car B, and Biker Y is to blame car B driver is probably unhurt. So he doesn't sue at all. (Biker Y is hurt of course , but being to blame can't sue anyone)

So, in a non ACC world , if cars and bikes were equally to blame for crashes, car drivers insurance companies would still end up paying out a lot more money than bikers. The insurance companies would say "We pay out a lot of money on account of car drivers, why can't they be like bikers, who cost us very little (in third party claims anyway)

But, our ACC system reverses this.

When Car A collides with Bike X, ACC don't care who is to blame. All they know is that Biker X has cost them money . And when Bike Y collides with car B , guess what , it's the biker that costs ACC again.

So, ACC say "We are paying out far too much money to bikers, why cna't they be like car drivers" . And , being bean oriented, they decide that they need to charge us more.

Mmmmm........good post Ix but only half the story. The other side is that the injured at-fault motorcyclist still has to be hospitalised, recuperated, and compensated for lost earnings. If we assume a free healthcare system, the other costs will be covered by insurance held by the motorcyclist.

Yes there will be motorcyclists who don't insure, but in a social democracy they are going to be picked up by the taxpayer. The high human cost of motorcycle accidents is unavoidable - it gets paid one way or another.

[StoneY]

We cannot afford to have idiots standing up in public and telling the media "waaaa... it's all the car drivers fault"

BRONZ have been doing it for years. So much so that even the majority of motorcyclists believe their bullshit.

And look where we are now.

Well, one thing that has been confirmed statsically over the last few days by excerpts from current research figures, is 60% of on road motorcycle accidents are fault of 'other vehicle'

Take that 33% of bike accidents do not involve another vehicle (its not 33 exact I cant be fucked trolling for it) we still do not deserve this hike

:)

Edit: many of the 'non involving other vehicle' bike crashes in ACC claim stats can be put down to off road use they dont seperate that in the 'bike crash' report

[dipshit]

Well, one thing that has been confirmed statsically over the last few days by excerpts from current research figures, is 60% of on road motorcycle accidents are fault of 'other vehicle'

It is not. It is 60% of the multiple vehicle accidents involving a motorcycle were the fault of the other vehicle.

Of all motorcycle accidents, about 40% were the fault of another vehicle.




many of the 'non involving other vehicle' bike crashes in ACC claim stats can be put down to off road use they dont seperate that in the 'bike crash' report

That appears not to be the case. ACC have categories for road claims, sports claims, and farming accident claims.

[jono035]

I wonder how many of the single-vehicle accidents involve a vehicle that simply leaves the scene, i.e. biker taking evasive action to avoid a cager doing something stupid and ends up in a ditch...

I doubt it would be many, but even a few % could make the difference.

Any other possible reasons? Obviously there is the whole riding to the conditions argument when faced with road surface issues, but I know of a few places up north where you come around a blind corner to a non-descript cattle crossing that is ALWAYS coated in crap. I don't believe in black and white situations.

[cs363]

We cannot afford to have idiots standing up in public and telling the media "waaaa... it's all the car drivers fault"

BRONZ have been doing it for years. So much so that even the majority of motorcyclists believe their bullshit.

And look where we are now.

Agreed. Despite what some may think of car drivers, we need as much of the ACC levy paying general public onside as possible. Trying to divert blame onto other levy payers will not assist our cause at all.
The message is that it is unfair, but from the viewpoint that ACC is supposedly a no fault, egalitarian system - yet a minority group is being targeted for higher levies. Yes?

[Ixion]

Mmmmm........good post Ix but only half the story. The other side is that the injured at-fault motorcyclist still has to be hospitalised, recuperated, and compensated for lost earnings. If we assume a free healthcare system, the other costs will be covered by insurance held by the motorcyclist.

Yes there will be motorcyclists who don't insure, but in a social democracy they are going to be picked up by the taxpayer. The high human cost of motorcycle accidents is unavoidable - it gets paid one way or another.

True. The cost has to be paid in the end

But, the way ACC is structured, means that we, as bikers are charged (in ACCs books) with (mostly) the cost of accidents where we are to blame. AND those where we are not.

WHich would be fair enough , ACC being a no-fault system, if they did not then turn round and say "Well, it's your fault you cost us so much, so we are going to charge you more".

[dipshit]

The message is that it is unfair, but from the viewpoint that ACC is supposedly a no fault, egalitarian system - yet a minority group is being targeted for higher levies. Yes?

Yes, that would be a much better approach. You would have a much better chance of getting the whole country rallying against it.

[cs363]

Yes, that would be a much better approach. You would have a much better chance of getting the whole country rallying against it.

Cool :drinknsin

Hopefully everyone is on the same page.......

[Winston001]

Which would be fair enough , ACC being a no-fault system, if they did not then turn round and say "Well, it's your fault you cost us so much, so we are going to charge you more".

Ah - ACC aren't exactly saying "its your fault". Rather their point is -

"You motorcyclists engage in an activity which is higher risk (16x) than other mechanised road users. Accordingly you will be levied a sum which is closer to the real cost of treating your accidents. By choosing to ride a motorcycle you expose yourself to high risk regardless of fault."

[Ixion]

But car drivers are at significantly greater risk than truck drivers (or SUV drivers for that matter). Why are they not likewise treated, then.

[dipshit]

WHich would be fair enough , ACC being a no-fault system, if they did not then turn round and say "Well, it's your fault you cost us so much, so we are going to charge you more".

And in a way I am fine with that. I voluntarily choose to ride a bike that I know I stand a higher chance of injury in more incidences that a car that would have prevented an injury. (minor T-bone at an intersection, going straight through a corner and through a farmer's fence etc.)

I don't mind paying a bit extra for cover. If it was private accident medical cover, I am sure I would be paying more to ride a bike than using a car anyhow.

[Bend-it]

Ah - ACC aren't exactly saying "its your fault". Rather their point is -

"You motorcyclists engage in an activity which is higher risk (16x) than other mechanised road users. Accordingly you will be levied a sum which is closer to the real cost of treating your accidents. By choosing to ride a motorcycle you expose yourself to high risk regardless of fault."

But it's the inconsistency which gets me... Why not other high risk activities like sports, or policemen, or firemen or whatever??

Sporting injuries cost ACC over $200 million (over 3 x bikers) in 2007/2008, but you don't pay any ACC to book an indoor soccer court or squash court or whatever... Why don't they target them?

Oooohh... maybe it's 'coz too large a proportion of the population play sports and it'll be definite political suicide...

[dipshit]

Ah - ACC aren't exactly saying "its your fault". Rather their point is -

"You motorcyclists engage in an activity which is higher risk (16x) than other mechanised road users. Accordingly you will be levied a sum which is closer to the real cost of treating your accidents. By choosing to ride a motorcycle you expose yourself to high risk regardless of fault."

My thoughts exactly.

[Bend-it]

Beyond what it may or may not do to our levies, this proposal makes ACC internally inconsistent...

There are two tracks ACC could take:-

1. People pay according to what they can afford, so ACC premiums are tied to earning with a small component tied to vehicle ownership. This is what is happening currently.
2. People pay according to their risk profile, which is what is ACC levies for motorcycles is leading towards.

Either of these are fine, they are just different models... as long as they are applied consistently.

With the current proposals, it will be "People pay what they can afford, UNLESS they're motorcyclists! In which case, WE WILL SCREW THEM OVER MUAHAHAHAH!!!" That's discrimination based on chosen mode of transport by anyone's standard, and clearly victimising a visible minority.

[Rayray401]

But it's the inconsistency which gets me... Why not other high risk activities like sports, or policemen, or firemen or whatever??

Sporting injuries cost ACC over $200 million (over 3 x bikers) in 2007/2008, but you don't pay any ACC to book an indoor soccer court or squash court or whatever... Why don't they target them?

Oooohh... maybe it's 'coz too large a proportion of the population play sports and it'll be definite political suicide...

OR, theyre afraid that parents wont let billy play rugby anymore, instead buy him a PS3 and let him get fat instead of paying the govt?

[dipshit]

But it's the inconsistency which gets me... Why not other high risk activities like sports, or policemen, or firemen or whatever??

waaaa... waaaa... which is just more whingeing and moaning.

[Bend-it]

waaaa... waaaa... which is just more whingeing and moaning.

Man, you really live up to your nick...

[6ft5]

Man, you really live up to your nick...

So enough whinging and moaning, what do we as a bikers community do and when. How do we engage in a strong response back to the governement and make them reconsider.

[Indiana_Jones]

Also when ACC spout the bullshit "Car drivers are covering you by $77 each" don't they know that of course they're covering us, they're covering the cyclists and pedestrians on the sidewalk too. Simply because of the fact there's a SHIT load more cars then bikes...

-Indy

[johnsf1980]

Well theres a facebook group too called "Bikers Unite Against ACC Levy Hikes" but not many bikers on it yet

[peasea]

Also when ACC spout the bullshit "Car drivers are covering you by $77 each" don't they know that of course they're covering us, they're covering the cyclists and pedestrians on the sidewalk too. Simply because of the fact there's a SHIT load more cars then bikes...

-Indy

Yeah, that claim got up my nose too. Don't forget that politicians have spin doctors and they are good at their job. Stat's get juggled at will and they could make the Pope look like a criminal if they tried. (Ok, maybe he is, but you get my drift.)

$69million is sporting injuries last year, so who subsidises who?

[dmc]

If bikes have levels of ACC then maybe ACC levies should be higher on older cars too as they are more dangerous than newer cars? or on more powerful cars? or on 4wd's because they are more likely to roll? or on convertibles? or the age of the driver? or location in NZ?
So something like this,
age x power x height x body style x age of driver x location = acc levy
Lets set the muppets at ACC try and work that one out....

Only problem there is new cars have more power than old cars, here I was thinking my 3 year old WRX with its 4 airbags, ABS, 4WD, advanced crumple zones all mean nothing because its far more dangerous as it has a 2.5lt turbo and not a 1.6lt, maybe I should get something older with less power so I'm safer in an accident?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[jono035]

Also when ACC spout the bullshit "Car drivers are covering you by $77 each" don't they know that of course they're covering us, they're covering the cyclists and pedestrians on the sidewalk too. Simply because of the fact there's a SHIT load more cars then bikes...

-Indy

And apart from you, almost every biker here will ALSO have a car?

[PrincessBandit]

....
Lets set the muppets at ACC try and work that one out....



Agree with what you're saying. The problem is that in order to "work it out" anything other than taking the easy pickings of motorcyclists becomes liable for their "too hard basket". Much easier "solution" in their eyes is to fleece us.

[dmc]

Agree with what you're saying. The problem is that in order to "work it out" anything other than taking the easy pickings of motorcyclists becomes liable for their "too hard basket". Much easier "solution" in their eyes is to fleece us.

Yeh thats it, we are easy to target.

[Indiana_Jones]

And apart from you, almost every biker here will ALSO have a car?

And they shouldn't be paying ACC twice....

-Indy

[jono035]

And they shouldn't be paying ACC twice....

-Indy

Well, my point was more that bikers can be pretty much considered a subset of car drivers, and are possibly more likely to get their jollies on a bike and then be slower in a car?

Just trying to think up arguments that may actually mean something to the public rather than the people saying 'there is no point doing this, we just won't pay' which means we're seen as people who are costing the taxpayers shitloads and whining about the bill.

I'd rather people realised that we aren't the massive money-sink that we're currently being painted as...

[Cr1MiNaL]

where are those mods? this thread needs editing big time, the dribble makes it impossible to read and I'm not reading anymore.

[Ixion]

..
Just trying to think up arguments that may actually mean something to the public rather than the people saying 'there is no point doing this, we just won't pay' which means we're seen as people who are costing the taxpayers shitloads and whining about the bill.

...

Not really just about the money, it's about abstract things like justice and equity 'n stuff , which a lot of people laugh at , but some of us think important (that's not aimed at you BTW). Bikers tend to be among the latter group.

People are talking about riding to Wellington from Aukland or Sth Island. With fuel accomodation, let alone time off work, that'll come to more than the increase.

[Suzuki Sue]

Hi there guys

I thought of some suggestions for why we shouldn't pay the increased ACC Levy and have a few suggestions as to who might start paying for it.

Please read www.stuff.co.nz/natinal/2969309/researcher-criticises-motorbike-levy-logic if you haven't already done so.

REASONS WE SHOULDN'T PAY FOR HIGER REGISTRATION:
1) There is no evidence to suggest that the bigger bikes result in more accidents thus they should be paying higher registration fees for ACC.
(The above article indicates that 43% of police reports didn't give cc rating, the other 57% did and were 250cc - THUS INCONCLUSIVE)

2) There were 1475 motorcycle accidents last year which includes farm bike accidents and motorcross accidents.

3) Of all the motorcycle accidents 67% of road crashes involved other vehicles. Of that 67% - 60% were caused by the other driver not the motorcylcist!


POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS TO THIS PROBLEM!:
1) Motorcross and trials riders pay an ACC Levy as part of their racing license registration!
Any person who buys a trail bike for riding only in trial ride events competition is required to pay an annual registration fee as well.
The organisation running the meeting should also have to pay an ACC Levy if they are already then bump it up some more.

2) All bikes pay an equal registration of $350 or $400 per annum.
Perhaps a varied registration coud be determined on number of km per annum.

3) Where an injury crash is reported the driver of the vehicle at fault is required to pay an ACC fine of upto $500 depending on seriousness of crash.
If driver at fault is taken to Court then Court awards the fine to ACC.

4) Every vehicle must be insured before a WOF or Registration is obtained (like in the UK and Canada) and must have liablility insurance.

5) Add a 3 cents a litre to petrol for ACC purposes.

Now these are merely thoughts and possible suggestions to a crazy and unjustified hike in registration fees for motorcyclists. Something to think about. ;)

[Ragingrob]

Also when ACC spout the bullshit "Car drivers are covering you by $77 each" don't they know that of course they're covering us, they're covering the cyclists and pedestrians on the sidewalk too. Simply because of the fact there's a SHIT load more cars then bikes...

-Indy

Not to mention the bikers that own fucken cars too.

I just do not understand how one person owning multiple vehicles (even both bikes and cars) for some reason must pay their ACC levy multiple times to insure their single self that can only use one vehicle at a time.

:wacko:

[jono035]

Not really just about the money, it's about abstract things like justice and equity 'n stuff , which a lot of people laugh at , but some of us think important (that's not aimed at you BTW). Bikers tend to be among the latter group.

People are talking about riding to Wellington from Aukland or Sth Island. With fuel accomodation, let alone time off work, that'll come to more than the increase.

Yeah, 100% agreed there mate and I'm definitely not saying that people are only whining about the money, just we have to be careful to frame our protests in such a way that it is not easy for the media to turn it into 'oh look, there go those bikers who are pissed off they have to pay for their lifestyle'.

Btw, saw you on the news before, well done. I think you handled it well.

[jono035]

...
If driver at fault is taken to Court then Court awards the fine to ACC.
...

Maybe ACC should get a bit more money from all the money made from ticketing?

[Winston001]

Hi there guys

I thought of some suggestions for why we shouldn't pay the increased ACC Levy and have a few suggestions as to who might start paying for it.......

Good for you Sue, the more ideas the better.




I just do not understand how one person owning multiple vehicles (even both bikes and cars) for some reason must pay their ACC levy multiple times to insure their single self that can only use one vehicle at a time.

:wacko:

OK. The ACC levy on vehicle registration has nothing to do with ownership (except as a convenient way of charging). You do not need to own a car/bike to be able to ride one.

So you personally could own 4 vehicles and family members could each crash driving those vehicles. You wouldn't expect them to be left on the side of the road because they weren't the owner?

[kave]

So you personally could own 4 vehicles and family members could each crash driving those vehicles. You wouldn't expect them to be left on the side of the road because they weren't the owner?
No, but if they were going to be driving them then they should be covering their own ACC levy. Driving a car is the activity that puts you at risk, not owning a car.

[Winston001]

No, but if they were going to be driving them then they should be covering their own ACC levy.

Really? How?

[Horney1]

[QUOTE=Suzuki Sue;1129472437]

4) Every vehicle must be insured before a WOF or Registration is obtained (like in the UK and Canada) and must have liablility insurance.

QUOTE]

Excuse the French but Fork that! You'll be worse off than ever if insurance companies get their other hooks into you. This is all the fault of insurance companies to start with. It'll take some pretty powerful lobbying to out-argue/ out-logic their statistics (conveniently stacked/stat'd in their favour). Once you're locked in they'll ensure they drain you dry of every cent!

I haven't had time to read most of the thread sorry but does anyone know how many actual cage accidents there were last year (not percentage, actual numbers) and how many of those required how many dollars? The insurance companies do.

Looks like I'll have to look into supercharged nitrous methanol sipping mopeds instead of a safe large wheeled adventure bike! I guess one of those won't take me far so all of the places I would have gone to will miss out on the money I would have spent there to....

[Ragingrob]

OK. The ACC levy on vehicle registration has nothing to do with ownership (except as a convenient way of charging). You do not need to own a car/bike to be able to ride one.

So you personally could own 4 vehicles and family members could each crash driving those vehicles. You wouldn't expect them to be left on the side of the road because they weren't the owner?

No, and that's why it should be individualised as per license rather than vehicle.

Anyway, if I crashed a car without a rego I'm sure ACC would still bail me out.

[Reckless]

Anyway, if I crashed a car without a rego I'm sure ACC would still bail me out.

Yes I can't remember or know of anyone being asked by the Doc or ACC if their car was registered when you fill out the ACC forms!!

[kwaka_crasher]

Really? How?

RUC component. In fact, all the ACC levy should be covered by RUC.

[Naki Rat]

It's all about public awareness of a problem just over the horizon for all New Zealanders, and by alerting people of that problem we can increase our support base substantially.

First they came for the rape victims,
I remained silent;
I was not a rape victim.

When they fined up the criminals,
I remained silent;
I was not a criminal.

When they levied the bikers,
I did not speak out;
I was not a biker.

When they prosecuted the unregistered,
I remained silent;
My bike was registered.

Now they are coming for the ???
Oh shit !!!

Legislation change such as this is only possible incrementally. Comprende' ?

[Twinmil]

Motorcycling is not only an economical form of travel with a lower environmental and urban profile, but a SPORT, at least according to ACC, who list it in their Section 20 Sport Claims list, in the ACC injury statistics of 2008.
This list tells us Motorcycling accidents cost the country $7.227 million dollars in 2007.

It also tells us:-

- Cycling cost us $10.447 million
- Horse Riding $ 9.14 million
- Netball $11.496 million
- Swimming $10.055 million
- Soccer $14.156 million
- Skiing $ 8.004 million
- Motocross & Dirt Biking $ 8.17 million
- Rugby Union $40.041 million
- Rugby League $10.648 million

Should Motorcycling be unique in being the only recreational activity in NZ to be asked to fund itself through exhorbitant fees just because it's functional aspect makes it liable for registration costs from which extraction of fees is relatively easy?

Should Motorcycling be targeted as an especially dangerous activity that needs discouraging by punitive charges, even though a large number of recreational activities in NZ are statistically more dangerous but that have no useful and therefore taxable component?

Should vehicles that use less resource, generate less CO2 and use less space on the road and in parking be actively discouraged?

Should motorcycling be penalised for a monstrous cost blow-out in the ACC, $4.18 Billion in, $23.78Billion Out.
(ACC Annual Report 2009)

The repeated assertion that cars are subsidising motorcycling is a red herring that masks the entire ACC Motor Vehicle Account cost blowout of $6.845 Billion claims against a net levy revenue of $739 Million, of which motorcycling is only a miniscule fraction.

If Motorcycling is not being scapegoated why is car registration not being increased pro rata for it's lack of levy income to cover it's proportionately higher percentage of the Motor Vehicle Account Funding shortfall?

Has the private outsourcing for accident care helped to contribute to this cost blowout?

Also from the ACC Annual Report of 2009
"The past year has seen a further increase in the risk premiums that investors have required for risky investments such as equities"
"...all significant developed equity markets again produced negative returns during 2008-2009."
"... a significant portion of ACC's reserves portfolios are invested in equity markets."
"ACC's reserves portfolios delivered an average return of 3.2% over the year.
While this result is significantly above our market benchmarks, it is slightly below the return that could have been achieved from low risk fixed interest investments over the year."

Does gambling with Tax payer money (particularly using opaque financial instruments) seem like a reasonable practice?

Does it seem reasonable that 259 staff members of ACC are on six figure salaries and divide $145.65 million dollars between themselves in wages while bringing about a 568% gap between income and costs that would send any private concern incompetent enough to oversee such a cost blow into insolvency?

Thank you for your time.

[Fluffy Cat]

Wow what a letter, well thought out:2thumbsup.
Thanks Twinmil.
Still dont get why i have to pay ACC per vehicle. Then again i bought an Sp1 and lent it to me mate cos i am sooo nice, and happy to pay Acc for him, so he's safe. Its a dumb money grubbing set up that penalizes multi vehicle owners. ACC the licence holder, that covers them any other licence holder sorts out their own ACC.

[munterk6]

looks like we have to rob from Peter to pay Paul with this levy hike.
meaning..just put the rego on hold and carry on regardless. In the event of an injury accident, ACC will pay out anyway :lol:

[Naki Rat]

It is becoming increasingly obvious that the government intends to open up some ACC 'Accounts' to privatisation.

Now liken the situation to preparing a vehicle for sale. The obvious bad points are best addressed or else potential buyers will be disinterested or liable to beat down the price based on accentuating the negative. So, you replace a worn tyre, buff out the scratches and valet the interior; non of which were a problem but they just detracted from the overall look of the car. Put a nice stereo in it to distract the tyre kickers and stick it on Trade Me. Sold, easy as :woohoo:

The government is preparing ACC Accounts for sale. The Work Claims Account is a no brainer; it can be tweeked at will to ensure that it is a saleable entity. The Motor Vehicle Account however is not so straight forward as despite it running well in the black it has a 'non performing' category called motorcycles which sort of catch they eye, and not in a good way. Even though half the expenses that appear in this category are only there due to some poor bugger being astride a bike when they got clobbered due to no fault of their own, but it still 'looks bad'. So best they tart up the numbers a bit by appearing to make things balance better in that category. Up the rego levy..... Done. That should make the Motor Vehicle Account more inviting for a prospective buyer :innocent:

Now lets have a look at that Sports Account.......

Who's Next ???

[Azi Dahaka]

i mean as your sig shows there are alot of things that are covered from acc that dont pay any levy.

[Winston001]

It is becoming increasingly obvious that the government intends to open up some ACC 'Accounts' to privatisation.

The government is preparing ACC Accounts for sale......

Not exactly but its up for discussion. No sale, but competition for work accident insurance. Personally I oppose it and doubt any private insurance company could be as effective as ACC.

[Bangbug]

Motorcycling is not only an economical form of travel with a lower environmental and urban profile, but a SPORT, at least according to ACC, who list it in their Section 20 Sport Claims list, in the ACC injury statistics of 2008.
This list tells us Motorcycling accidents cost the country $7.227 million dollars in 2007.

It also tells us:-

- Cycling cost us $10.447 million
- Horse Riding $ 9.14 million
- Netball $11.496 million
- Swimming $10.055 million
- Soccer $14.156 million
- Skiing $ 8.004 million
- Motocross & Dirt Biking $ 8.17 million
- Rugby Union $40.041 million
- Rugby League $10.648 million

Should Motorcycling be unique in being the only recreational activity in NZ to be asked to fund itself through exhorbitant fees just because it's functional aspect makes it liable for registration costs from which extraction of fees is relatively easy?

Should Motorcycling be targeted as an especially dangerous activity that needs discouraging by punitive charges, even though a large number of recreational activities in NZ are statistically more dangerous but that have no useful and therefore taxable component?

Should vehicles that use less resource, generate less CO2 and use less space on the road and in parking be actively discouraged?

Should motorcycling be penalised for a monstrous cost blow-out in the ACC, $4.18 Billion in, $23.78Billion Out.
(ACC Annual Report 2009)

The repeated assertion that cars are subsidising motorcycling is a red herring that masks the entire ACC Motor Vehicle Account cost blowout of $6.845 Billion claims against a net levy revenue of $739 Million, of which motorcycling is only a miniscule fraction.

If Motorcycling is not being scapegoated why is car registration not being increased pro rata for it's lack of levy income to cover it's proportionately higher percentage of the Motor Vehicle Account Funding shortfall?

Has the private outsourcing for accident care helped to contribute to this cost blowout?

Also from the ACC Annual Report of 2009
"The past year has seen a further increase in the risk premiums that investors have required for risky investments such as equities"
"...all significant developed equity markets again produced negative returns during 2008-2009."
"... a significant portion of ACC's reserves portfolios are invested in equity markets."
"ACC's reserves portfolios delivered an average return of 3.2% over the year.
While this result is significantly above our market benchmarks, it is slightly below the return that could have been achieved from low risk fixed interest investments over the year."

Does gambling with Tax payer money (particularly using opaque financial instruments) seem like a reasonable practice?

Does it seem reasonable that 259 staff members of ACC are on six figure salaries and divide $145.65 million dollars between themselves in wages while bringing about a 568% gap between income and costs that would send any private concern incompetent enough to oversee such a cost blow into insolvency?

Thank you for your time.

What an excellent well thought out letter.
You missed out 1 thing.
:2guns:
Now they'll listen :)
We really should remember that people with the biggest muscles then biggest rocks and sticks then swords and shields then guns rule us. It's still the same people. Violence to pacify those they rule, now it's laws. It's the same thing... except "laws" are good for us... 10% are, funnily enough they are the ones dealing with the previous forms of government enforcement (to stop someone doing what they've already done). The rest are the latest incarnation of the sticks and stones.
What's the next incarnation, if we can figure that out we'll be the ones in control...
Well maybe YOU guys figure it out, I have a good set of muscles and I'm going caveman on this MF'er. lol ;)

[CherryB]

Because of what do for a living, I got the details on all the proposals at work today. Attached is the motor vehicle proposal and the details are on page three. 2010/11 levy rates for motorists - Key Points Summary

Interesting stuff.
So we need them to answer our OIA and tell us where their figures come from and how they do their calculations.

I'd also like to know:
What their economic assumptions are?
why it is taking longer to rehabilitate injured people?
what their actuarial analysis is, what it is based on, etc.?
why treatment costs are going up so much?
what does elective surgery mean?
is some of this the result of underfunding of the health system - and us now being asked to cross-subsidise that?
Are the historic costs being funded by motorcycles actually work claims (and other types of claims?)
What information do they have on the claim relativity between different cc sizes, and how that relates to accident 'fault'? What proportion do they have both those bits of information for?
I don't get the figures they provide for 09/10 levies in the table - I didn't pay that much this year... and didn't know it was divided by size of bike yet?
What they seem to be suggesting is that because our risk is greater, we should pay more rather than helping others to be better drivers - is that right?
How does the relativities table work? If the total cost is $62m, how do they work out this huge so-called "cross-subsidy"? And the number of vehicles cited is far more than those mentioned on the NZTA motor vehicle registration data, so where does that come from and what does it include? How many zerocc or thereabouts things are in that data?

[Kendoll]

Another point to consider is the fact that this will fall on our already understaffed and underfunded police force to enforce. Personally I feel sorry for them; they are already at a disadvantage with many bikers opting to make a runner rather than pulling over for them. Add to this a large number of people potentially riding unregistered bikes (because they can't afford to) and you will find that NOBODY will be pulling over for the police.

Well done Government, you have singlehandedly made yoru police force almost completely redundant, even more of a joke than it already is. You may aswell put them all into retirement now...

[Pixie]

It will be another case of the police bearing the PR repercussions for government policies.But Police Management are a pack of government toadies,so it's business as usual.
Some poster suggested that front line cops aren't going to routinely stop motorists for rego checks

[lozz900]

$745 is just the acc component.. A rego will around $950..
Ive 3 bikes, Ill register none. Just pay the fines. Ive been doing it for a few years now and havnt been nicked once..

2008 post above... its 2019 I paid zero Regos I've recieved zero fines ( for no rego)
This is a win...
I've only done 100 000 km though.

[SaferRides]

2008 post above... its 2019 I paid zero Regos I've recieved zero fines ( for no rego)
This is a win...
I've only done 100 000 km though.Hasn't LTSA chased you for the outstanding rego?

A mate registers his bike for 3 months a year and has never been caught. I've never had wof or rego checked when I've been pulled over or at a checkpoint, so I can certainly believe you'd get away with it.

Just watch where you park if you visit Auckland.

[Owl]

2008 post above... its 2019 I paid zero Regos I've recieved zero fines ( for no rego)
This is a win...
I've only done 100 000 km though.

I've constantly paid my rego (lots).

Had I not, I would've lost my licence to demerits and I value that more than a bit of cash. Perspective: Since buying my KTM in 2015, I've spent well over $20k in tyres and fuel alone.

Glad it's working out for you though!;)

[Laava]

. I've never had wof or rego checked when I've been pulled over .
When they pull you over, they already know before they get out of the car whether you are registered or not.

[SaferRides]

When they pull you over, they already know before they get out of the car whether you are registered or not.

Are they running cameras in the cars to check plates?