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Bald Eagle
14th October 2009, 17:49
All the regular ride events around all the regions become protest rides to parliament / MP's offices / through main roads, until further notice.

All multi bike traffic holds up every week.

StoneY
14th October 2009, 17:59
In like Flynn bro.....damn right! :headbang:

Fight for ya rights KB'ers.

Ive googled this a bit and NOWHERE in the WORLD are charges for tax/insurance/levies so godamn high, none I can find anyway!
Many countries charge LESS for a bike, as it used to be here once upon a lifetime ago

James Deuce
14th October 2009, 18:01
Yeah, that'll help get everyone onside.

slimjim
14th October 2009, 18:04
ridden down that road before, shall do it again..:cool:

Sidewinder
14th October 2009, 18:11
last protest ride i went on we got kicked of kb lol:clap::clap::clap:

sinfull
14th October 2009, 18:36
I'll bring the rocks !!!

Oh Oh oh oh and the slingshot !!! (they wont let me have a gun)

YellowDog
14th October 2009, 18:46
The six o'clock news stated it like it was a done deal.

I don't think we should just roll over for them without a fight.

zahria
14th October 2009, 18:50
The six o'clock news stated it like it was a done deal.

I don't think we should just roll over for them without a fight.

fully agree. as one of the minority that seems to work, get taxed, recieve no income assistance and now this... Grrr.

Sidewinder
14th October 2009, 18:53
I'll bring the rocks !!!

Oh Oh oh oh and the slingshot !!! (they wont let me have a gun)

dont bring a spear, you could be a spear chucker

Fluffy Cat
14th October 2009, 18:57
This is plain dumb. This has been said before but why do we have to pay the ACC levy on each bike?. Its to cover me, right?. So i should just pay it once. Not 5 or 10 times. Mahhn this is a crock of shit and i have already made this a submission not that it will make any difference. :headbang:
The police will have a field day with all us crims on our bikes not paying the rego revenue charge.
BS.

Timber020
14th October 2009, 19:00
Doesnt our ACC fees on rego also have to cover farmer who have accidents on quads on there farms?

White trash
14th October 2009, 19:01
All the regular ride events around all the regions become protest rides to parliament / MP's offices / through main roads, until further notice.

All multi bike traffic holds up every week.
Why? So the rest of the motoring public can hate bikers more than they already do? Best idea I've read all evening.

Sharpen up.

yungatart
14th October 2009, 19:05
I can see why you want to protest...hell, I might even join you..BUT this sort of action will not work!
What we need is a concerted effort...not lots of little splinter groups, all off doing their own little protest, pissing people off, who will have no idea what you are on about.
It will end in tears if not done properly...mark my words!

Ninja750
14th October 2009, 19:07
Hi all
Another way to make ourselves known

Follow this link and make you voice count, with enough responses you never know what can happen.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nzbikers_vs_acc

Thanks

sinfull
14th October 2009, 19:16
I can see why you want to protest...hell, I might even join you..BUT this sort of action will not work!
What we need is a concerted effort...not lots of little splinter groups, all off doing their own little protest, pissing people off, who will have no idea what you are on about.
It will end in tears if not done properly...mark my words! But But But, what of my slingshot ???

I'm motarded
14th October 2009, 19:21
I'm in. we have to try at least

Mom
14th October 2009, 19:21
But But But, what of my slingshot ???

Dont worry, if you sneak it in, in your back pocket nobody will even guess it is there :innocent:

Slingshot
14th October 2009, 19:23
I'll bring the rocks !!!

Oh Oh oh oh and the slingshot !!! (they wont let me have a gun)


But But But, what of my slingshot ???


I'll make my own way to the protest ride :clap:

mowgli
14th October 2009, 19:23
How many "motorcycle related" ACC claims relate to unregistered motorcycles (motoX, trail, farm, etc). This is grossly unfair :mad:

yungatart
14th October 2009, 19:23
But But But, what of my slingshot ???


Dont worry, if you sneak it in, in your back pocket nobody will even guess it is there :innocent:

What she said...keep it in your pants...no one will ever know its there :lol:

sinfull
14th October 2009, 19:26
Dont worry, if you sneak it in, in your back pocket nobody will even guess it is there :innocent:


What she said...keep it in your pants...no one will ever know its there :lol:


I'll make my own way to the protest ride :clap:
It's just wrong, what these girls are suggesting !!


Bwahahahaha i bet you didn't reallise it was a public poll Matt

mossy1200
14th October 2009, 19:31
Lets say that high rego costs will devalue our bikes.Correct?

Is it fair to say we should all lodge claim each in small claims court against government for lost money due excessive registration costs.

10,000 small claims appearances will show them the finger.Even if every claim is lost think of the headache for them.

_Shrek_
14th October 2009, 19:31
Hi all
Another way to make ourselves known

Follow this link and make you voice count, with enough responses you never know what can happen.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nzbikers_vs_acc

Thanks

cheers :apint: done

2senuff
14th October 2009, 19:38
hi i would consider it our duty as motorcycle riders to get out and be counted; this action may remind the pollies that all riders are voters ;come next election i hope riders right across the country can get together on runs.
Cheers Mike

Sir Matt
15th October 2009, 08:28
I voted Labour out because they forgot who they were working for!!!!

There are more costly rugby accidents over a shorter period of time than motor cycle accidents over a year. I bet we end up paying for this too.

Why do these fat cats keep ragging on us for having a good time! Its bad enough my wife trying to stop me having fun.:oi-grr::Oi:

bones135
15th October 2009, 08:34
Id be in so long as i dont fall off on the way & end up on ACC, that would suck too

Kiwi Graham
15th October 2009, 10:34
I'm happy to take part in protest action.

But............we need to be mindful on not upsetting those that are supporting us, holding up Joe Bloggs and his faimly going about his buisness is going to get the tide of opinion against us. Direct it at our MP's, at parliament etc hinder those idiots and make them hear our voice.

When we are out riding in protest for gods sake keep it sensible......pulling wheel stands and doing burnouts is going to draw the wrong type of attention to our selves.

Just imagine what the media would do if it filmed a wheel standing protester who crashed and required an ambo!

James Deuce
15th October 2009, 11:37
Oh FFS a public poll so you can lynch people who don't participate?

Come on!

Best form of public protest is to NOT pay your rego then ask a nearby meter maid or cop for a ticket, then demand a court date. The NZ Justice system would fall over dead with an extra 70,000 cases to be heard next week.

BiK3RChiK
15th October 2009, 11:56
Hi all
Another way to make ourselves known

Follow this link and make you voice count, with enough responses you never know what can happen.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nzbikers_vs_acc

Thanks
I know we have a ton of threads up already, but I think this could be worthy of a seperate thread rather than buried in here....

jetboy
15th October 2009, 13:01
I'm a tad busy right at the minute and will get onto this when I get home, but what do you guys think about doing what the truckers did and slowing down traffic in all major cities by crawling along the motorway?

It's simple to organise and participate: meet at a certain location and ride to another as slowly as you can during peak hour traffic.

Personally this is one time where I think we should all do something about this instead of talking about how crap it is for everyone.

Thoughts?

WuZards-Eugene
15th October 2009, 15:33
.....Just imagine what the media would do if it filmed a wheel standing protester who crashed and required an ambo!........

Please, whoever does this, make sure its on a scooter so us big bikes don't get the bad rap.

sunhuntin
15th October 2009, 19:29
there are going to be protests for things like the removal of sensitive claims [rape etc]

would it be an idea to try and coordiante with the organisers of other protests to try and get more numbers and more attention?

tardme link http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=23141

BiK3RChiK
15th October 2009, 21:05
I'm a tad busy right at the minute and will get onto this when I get home, but what do you guys think about doing what the truckers did and slowing down traffic in all major cities by crawling along the motorway?

It's simple to organise and participate: meet at a certain location and ride to another as slowly as you can during peak hour traffic.

Personally this is one time where I think we should all do something about this instead of talking about how crap it is for everyone.

Thoughts?

A terrible idea....

Firstly, we need the general public on OUR side...

Secondly, when the truckies did it, they were vilified...

A ride on Parliament en masse seems like a much better idea to me.

Katman
15th October 2009, 21:07
Of course I'll be involved in a protest ride.

As long as it's conducted in a manner that I consider profitable to the cause.

peasea
15th October 2009, 21:09
last protest ride i went on we got kicked of kb lol:clap::clap::clap:

Did you say "suck my dick" to a mod or something? That usually works........

peasea
15th October 2009, 21:10
Of course I'll be involved in a protest ride.

As long as it's conducted in a manner that I consider profitable to the cause.

Pass a hat round, that's usually profitable. (Help pay for your rego'.)

peasea
15th October 2009, 21:12
A terrible idea....

Firstly, we need the general public on OUR side...

Secondly, when the truckies did it, they were vilified...

A ride on Parliament en masse seems like a much better idea to me.

Yeah, while creating havoc is a nice idea it'll just turn the public against us. Better to milk the media spotlight and get the public onside. One big ride to the Beehive (I'll cross the water for that one) and lotsa local rides to MP's offices etc.

Dusty1198
15th October 2009, 21:15
I'm in. any excuse to get the "Bus" out on the road and this is a DAMM FINE CAUSE!

say where and when.

peasea
15th October 2009, 21:17
I'm in. any excuse to get the "Bus" out on the road and this is a DAMM FINE CAUSE!

say where and when.

I still say Nov 7th, save up your fireworks and storm the Beehive.:clap:

SARGE
15th October 2009, 21:20
Doesnt our ACC fees on rego also have to cover farmer who have accidents on quads on there farms?

and drunk drivers ..

overdoses..

convicts who try to escape Mt Eden Prison, fall off the wall, break both legs in 4 places ...

Dan Carter gets 2 footrubs a day and claims it under "physio"

Indiana_Jones
15th October 2009, 21:21
I'll bring the rocks !!!

Oh Oh oh oh and the slingshot !!! (they wont let me have a gun)

They let me....

-Indy

SARGE
15th October 2009, 21:31
They let me....

-Indy

they dont know i have one .. " LET" doesnt come into it ...

Indiana_Jones
15th October 2009, 21:41
they dont know i have one .. " LET" doesnt come into it ...

You know I keep a picture of you in my wallet.

I wanna be like you daddy! :clap:

FUCK THE MAN!

WHITE RIOT!

-Indy

SARGE
15th October 2009, 21:51
You know I keep a picture of you in my wallet.

I wanna be like you daddy! :clap:

FUCK THE MAN!

WHITE RIOT!

-Indy

A "right" that requires "government" permission is not a right, but a government-granted privilege. A "right" that legislation can negate is not a right.

In other words, they beg for their freedom, as if they need the permission of tyrants to be free.


i am not, nor will i ever be , a NZ citizen. I stand by my rights as guaranteed by the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States Of America




A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be
infringed.

Indiana_Jones
15th October 2009, 21:56
A "right" that requires "government" permission is not a right, but a government-granted privilege. A "right" that legislation can negate is not a right.

In other words, they beg for their freedom, as if they need the permission of tyrants to be free.


i am not, nor will i ever be , a NZ citizen. I stand by my rights as guaranteed by the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States Of America

Too true mate.

I shall get my citizenship one day. But I shall always be English.

We got screwed over with our bill of rights. We have the right to bear arms within the law.....bad wording >_<

-Indy

SARGE
15th October 2009, 21:57
I shall get my citizenship one day. But I shall always be English.
-Indy

ive already got all the passports i need ..

Indiana_Jones
15th October 2009, 21:59
ive already got all the passports i need ..

Same lol, can you hold dual US and NZ ones?

-Indy

SARGE
15th October 2009, 22:07
Same lol, can you hold dual US and NZ ones?

-Indy

no.. you cannot swear loyalty to another flag willingly and keep your US Citizenship ...

Indiana_Jones
15th October 2009, 22:11
no.. you cannot swear loyalty to another flag willingly and keep your US Citizenship ...

Yea, I guess it's easier to get one from a country we own....

Still swearing to the crown.

-Indy

Bend-it
15th October 2009, 22:15
ANYWAY... I'm keen on the upside down rego thing, and one BIG protest ride, with tshirts etc...

And lots of emailing, contacting MPs etc... other under the radar stuff

rok-the-boat
15th October 2009, 22:26
ACC fee should cover the person not the vehicle. It is us they pay for when we get hurt. Therefore, you should just pay once. I think there is an insurance law somewhere that says you can't have more than one insurance on a vehicle... not sure though.

Conquiztador
15th October 2009, 22:32
I won't ride for this.

I hate the increases as much as the next biker. And I have more than one bike + a car (or two...).

But you have all missed what is going on. Yes, Labour made us all beneficiaries. They are by no means perfect. So you all went and voted for change... Well it is coming. The country is now being run like a business. And it is a business in financial crisis. Billions in deficit, and going deeper.

So, like with any business, there is only two ways to fix it:
1. Increase income.
2. Cut costs.

And that is what this is about. There is a bunch of guys/gals that have been told: "Cut the costs and find some more money. Don't make it to obvious, but do what it takes."

So they are looking at all and every spending: Education (Closing of schools, end of funding for courses), Hospitals, Police (you remember the selling of cars and stations?)ACC, even subsidies to the MP's (rent subsidies, overseas flights). And there are cuts. Or if not possible, then increases in fees.

So get used to it. This is just the beginning. In my chrystal ball I can see:
- 20 hour free ECE being cut or reduced.
- WINZ subsidies for After School care/ holiday programmes reduced or cut
- More education subsidies cut
- Family tax credit cut
- Simplyfying IRD and cutting administration
- Increase of road tax, petrol tax, all sort of "luxury" tax.
Etc.

No. I do not like it. Not a bit. But what is the option? To have a country go bankrupt like a 3'rd world country...

So sadly there is nothing we can do. The decisions are already made.

Bend-it
15th October 2009, 22:41
So sadly there is nothing we can do. The decisions are already made.

Then this is obviously not the thread for you eh?

Indiana_Jones
15th October 2009, 22:44
So sadly there is nothing we can do. The decisions are already made.

Even pulled your pants down and lubed your arsehole for the rapist, you're a thoughtful person....

-Indy

Conquiztador
15th October 2009, 22:58
Even pulled your pants down and lubed your arsehole for the rapist, you're a thoughtful person....

-Indy

Take a dose of reality. If you want ACC then someone will have to pay for it. Costs are going up and so must income.

$500 additional a year is $1.50/day. By this time next year you will have had an increase in income of that or more. Or just spend less. Life is about choices.

SARGE
15th October 2009, 23:00
Take a dose of reality. If you want ACC then someone will have to pay for it. Costs are going up and so must income.

$500 additional a year is $1.50/day. By this time next year you will have had an increase in income of that or more. Or just spend less. Life is about choices.

but but but .. i dont WANT ACC.. can i opt out?

Bend-it
15th October 2009, 23:21
My beef (tee hee hee) is with paying ACC three times for my 2 bikes and a car when I can only operate one vehicle at a time, so only run one risk as a time, not all three... it's ridiculous...

That $500 increase becomes over $1,000 increase now... $3 per day.

If they're going down the track of charging riskier activities, then it needs to include far more than just motorcycles. And remove the tie-in with a person's wage... Does earning more make you a higher ACC risk?? I don't think so...

Since ACC is basically insurance, they should evaluate people like insurance companies do and assign individual risk profiles and premiums.

Conquiztador
15th October 2009, 23:26
My beef (tee hee hee) is with paying ACC three times for my 2 bikes and a car when I can only operate one vehicle at a time, so only run one risk as a time, not all three... it's ridiculous...

That $500 increase becomes over $1,000 increase now... $3 per day.

If they're going down the track of charging riskier activities, then it needs to include far more than just motorcycles. And remove the tie-in with a person's wage... Does earning more make you a higher ACC risk?? I don't think so...

Since ACC is basically insurance, they should evaluate people like insurance companies do and assign individual risk profiles and premiums.

If I own 3 houses I will pay rates for all 3. Does not matter that I can only live in one at the time.

Bend-it
15th October 2009, 23:35
No, but rates is for services... not insurance...

ACC is basically health insurance for accidents, which I can only have on 1 vehicle at a time. If talking about fire and theft insurance... sure, I'd have them on all 3 vehicles, which I do... but that's not what ACC is, is it?

Conquiztador
15th October 2009, 23:43
No, but rates is for services... not insurance...

ACC is basically health insurance for accidents, which I can only have on 1 vehicle at a time. If talking about fire and theft insurance... sure, I'd have them on all 3 vehicles, which I do... but that's not what ACC is, is it?

Correct.

I can also rent out the two houses I am not living in. Therefore using the services that I would not use while not living in them.

And I can allow my son and g/f to use my car and second bike at same time I use one bike my self.

Bend-it
15th October 2009, 23:53
Correct.

I can also rent out the two houses I am not living in. Therefore using the services that I would not use while not living in them.

And I can allow my son and g/f to use my car and second bike at same time I use one bike my self.

*can* does not equate to *did*... I could kill someone doesn't mean I did kill someone, does it??

Tenants pay the rates indirectly through rent. And you still pay rates even if the house is untenanted because you still have road frontage which gets maintained, power lines, water and services maintenance etc. Correct.

ACC IS NOT for services, how many times must I type this?? Can you read it?

If a family member wants to use my vehicle, then they should have their own ACC assessment that includes "occassional use of dad's car" or something like that, and pay the premium associated with that.

bent12
16th October 2009, 00:09
How else would you describe a nurse/doctor mending a broken motorcyclists. A premium is payed based on risk, enthusiasticly adopted and manipulated by insurance people, the acc scheme is supposed to embody old fashioned notions of equality and ability to pay.

Conquiztador
16th October 2009, 00:19
*can* does not equate to *did*... I could kill someone doesn't mean I did kill someone, does it??

Tenants pay the rates indirectly through rent. And you still pay rates even if the house is untenanted because you still have road frontage which gets maintained, power lines, water and services maintenance etc. Correct.

ACC IS NOT for services, how many times must I type this?? Can you read it?

If a family member wants to use my vehicle, then they should have their own ACC assessment that includes "occassional use of dad's car" or something like that, and pay the premium associated with that.

- Just for you I will swap "can" for "have the right to". Now read it again.
- You have the right to not connect your house to the water, power and services, but you will still be charged the rates if you decide not to.
- Thank you for your concern re my reading ability. Insurance is what you are talking about. You have the option to not buy one leaving you to gamble that you will save the money as you will never need it. ACC takes this option away from you. It is compulsory for all. Like rates on a house. No options. You pay rates if you use the "service" or not. Like ACC.
- The current system is set up so that ACC is not paid by the individual but by the employer, the compulsory vehicle license. And the reason is obvious. Fill a car with boy racers. One has a paid up ACC. Others not. At an accident all are injured. Who gets "serviced"?

Bend-it
16th October 2009, 00:20
We pay for insurance, insurance companies then pay for the services we may or may not receive... that step in between makes all the difference.

I completely agree with your 2nd point. It should be either:
- People who participate in riskier activities pay more or
- Premiums based on ability to pay, which it mostly is currently.

The proposed changes make it based on ability to pay, UNLESS you're a motorcyclist, in which case, WE WILL SCREW YOU!!! MUAHAHAHAH!!!

terbang
16th October 2009, 00:25
If a family member wants to use my vehicle, then they should have their own ACC assessment that includes "occassional use of dad's car" or something like that, and pay the premium associated with that.

I already have that. Its called insurance...

Bend-it
16th October 2009, 00:27
- Just for you I will swap "can" for "have the right to". Now read it again.
- You have the right to not connect your house to the water, power and services, but you will still be carged the rates if you decide not to.

Really? Can you decide not to connect up services? I suppose you could... and if you did, you're right, you *should* pay discounted rates... if you don't then there's something wrong with the system, which doesn't make it right somewhere else.



- The current system is set up so that ACC is not paid by the individual but by the employer, the compulsory vehicle license. And the reason is obvious. Fill a car with boy racers. One has a paid up ACC. Others not. At an accident all are injured. Who gets "serviced"?

Eh? So the boy racer with one car and 4 mates run the risk of 5 injuries but pays $200+ , and the biker with 2 bikes, a car and no mates runs the risk of 1 injury, but pays $1,700+ and this sounds right to you?

Bend-it
16th October 2009, 00:29
I already have that. Its called insurance...

Car insurance doesn't cover injuries, just car damage. ACC covers injuries...

But I agree with you, ACC is just health insurance in the case of accidents, which NZ health insurance don't generally cover because everyone's covered by ACC. Either that, or they top up shortfalls after the ACC payout.

Conquiztador
16th October 2009, 00:32
The proposed changes make it based on ability to pay, UNLESS you're a motorcyclist, in which case, WE WILL SCREW YOU!!! MUAHAHAHAH!!!

When applying for a loan for a motorbike it is considered a "luxury item" a "toy". We might agree or disagree with that. (Many use bikes as their way of daily transport). But as a result a owner of a bike is considered to have a "recreational" vehicle. Something that is "not needed" for daily living but for enjoyment. I suspect that this is behind some of the thinking when the 600cc+ bikes have a much higher proposed ACC levy. If a bike is purchased as a cheap transport, then a smaller one will do the job. As soon as you get a bigger bike it is because you "want" one not because you "need" one.

Conquiztador
16th October 2009, 00:35
Eh? So the boy racer with one car and 4 mates run the risk of 5 injuries but pays $200+ , and the biker with 2 bikes, a car and no mates runs the risk of 1 injury, but pays $1,700+ and this sounds right to you?

No. Never said the current proposal is fair. My point was that having ACC attached to the license would not work.

Bend-it
16th October 2009, 00:41
When applying for a loan for a motorbike it is considered a "luxury item" a "toy". ..... As soon as you get a bigger bike it is because you "want" one not because you "need" one.

Higher premiums for V8s as opposed to 1.6l corollas then?

In fact, higher premiums for anything above 1.6l, and 8 valves, and 100hp. Tell ya what... if you wear a neck tie, you'll get charged extra, and you really don't need coloured shirts, that's just an extravagance and will attract a luxury tax. White shirts, black pants and 1.6l corollas for everyone then... a grey jersey in winter.


No. Never said the current proposal is fair. My point was that having ACC attached to the license would not work.

Agree... And that's what we're protesting. The current proposal is bollocks, in fact, even worse that the previous one, 'coz at least that one was halfway consistent. I'm not advocating attaching it to the license either.

Indiana_Jones
16th October 2009, 07:16
When applying for a loan for a motorbike it is considered a "luxury item" a "toy". We might agree or disagree with that. (Many use bikes as their way of daily transport). But as a result a owner of a bike is considered to have a "recreational" vehicle. Something that is "not needed" for daily living but for enjoyment. I suspect that this is behind some of the thinking when the 600cc+ bikes have a much higher proposed ACC levy. If a bike is purchased as a cheap transport, then a smaller one will do the job. As soon as you get a bigger bike it is because you "want" one not because you "need" one.

Well that has nothing to do with what happens should one fall off.

But on that note, in theory we'd all be on FX125's.

Now I run a 'big' bike and i know there's accociated costs in doing so. but at least with the private insurance I have for it, I can say fuck off to one company and get a better deal with another.

-Indy

Conquiztador
5th November 2009, 22:12
I won't ride for this.

I hate the increases as much as the next biker. And I have more than one bike + a car (or two...).

But you have all missed what is going on. Yes, Labour made us all beneficiaries. They are by no means perfect. So you all went and voted for change... Well it is coming. The country is now being run like a business. And it is a business in financial crisis. Billions in deficit, and going deeper.

So, like with any business, there is only two ways to fix it:
1. Increase income.
2. Cut costs.

And that is what this is about. There is a bunch of guys/gals that have been told: "Cut the costs and find some more money. Don't make it to obvious, but do what it takes."

So they are looking at all and every spending: Education (Closing of schools, end of funding for courses), Hospitals, Police (you remember the selling of cars and stations?)ACC, even subsidies to the MP's (rent subsidies, overseas flights). And there are cuts. Or if not possible, then increases in fees.

So get used to it. This is just the beginning. In my chrystal ball I can see:
- 20 hour free ECE being cut or reduced.
- WINZ subsidies for After School care/ holiday programmes reduced or cut
- More education subsidies cut
- Family tax credit cut
- Simplyfying IRD and cutting administration
- Increase of road tax, petrol tax, all sort of "luxury" tax.
Etc.

No. I do not like it. Not a bit. But what is the option? To have a country go bankrupt like a 3'rd world country...

So sadly there is nothing we can do. The decisions are already made.

I still stand behind my quote.

BUT I have changed my mind re the protest ride. I be there. Reason is simple: I come from a country that was next to Soviet Union, now next to Russia. Propaganda was (is) big in Russia, people actually believed all the crap that they were fed. Living in Finland we knew that it was crap, but there was no way to tell them. The Soviet Government was in charge of all media and if you started telling ppl the truth you were in jail before you could say Vodka.

No, we are not there, we are far away from it. But when the government is using our money to tell us that we are wrong (the current ACC against bikers adds) my neck hairs stand up.

See ya in Welly!

carver
12th November 2009, 16:39
All the regular ride events around all the regions become protest rides to parliament / MP's offices / through main roads, until further notice.

All multi bike traffic holds up every week.

who the fuck are you to tell us what to do?