BRONZ BIKEOI ! Man up or bend over and spread them

[Ixion]

Well, Mr Smith has succeeded in vexing me somewhat. In fact I would go so far as to say that I am somewhat cross.

We need to fight him on the political front, my sending the message that if he goes through with this his portfolio will become a very hot potato.

Part of that will be by argument and dissertation.

But we also need to put on a public show of opposition

Partly to keep the issue in the public eye
Partly to engage the press, who demand circuses
Partly to "rally the troops"

So- the BIKEOI. Like a hikoi , but with bikes :doh:

Format is open to discussion (and, this will need to be confirmed at the BRONZ meeting on Wednesday - but if they reject it, it'll happen anyway , even if I'm the only one along. After all how many people did Whina Cooper have when she set out).

But my own thoughts are :

On a date to be decided , motorcyclists (AND scooters - they're very important), from all parts of the country, head toward Wellington (why Wellyhole? cos it's where the pollies are), to congregate at an unspecified location (we ain't going to tell them where to send the cops!)

Along the way they pick up supporters from towns they pass through, both those going to Wellyhole, and those who can't but will ride with the BIKEO! fro a bit to lend support (and make a better show for the media)

Since not everyone can manage to get to Wellington , we'll have regional BIKEOIs on the same date, same deal but congregate in your regional towns (at a location to be disclosed)

I'm picking that TPTB will want the cops to stop us, so we'll use flash mob tech.

What we do at said locations is alos up for debate. Obviously some speeches for the media, and maybe a chance to address either an ACC droid or a pollie.

[scumdog]

And try not to bin getting there!

[MSTRS]

This household is in.

[Sanx]

This household is out, but only 'cos my KTM doesn't have the ocean-crossing factory option. (Which I'm sure KTM do and charge an arm and a leg for)

[Slyer]

In.
Dates please.

[Ragingrob]

And try not to bin getting there!

+1

Or... Maybe we should all crash and burn and then claim a billion dollars medical care on ACC :lol:

I reckon with the increased levy maybe every week after commuting I'll have to start getting a regular full body massage from physio due to bike related stiffness, and ACC can pay :clap:

[mowgli]

I'm in for the Welly BIKEOI! date and time dependent

[dogsnbikes]

This household is in and I have two bikes to lend out if need be more bikes the better

[Swoop]

I'd suggest a "regional" one each in Auck, Welly & Chch, culminating in a massed one to Parliament.
Simply because GiJoe1313 would attend all of them...

Also, as many as possible that can head to a local MP's office (especially so if in a "mini-bikeoi") to knock on the door and see if a chat is possible. Get the word out to all of the politicians.

[Ixion]

I'm told I can get from the Parliamentary secretary a schedule of where politicians are going to be on each day. If I can track the sec dude down (anyone know who he is?) we can maybe arrange that every time a pollie pops up, there's a bunch of bikers there .

[Lil_Byte]

If someone provides a date then we will be there with bells on.:Oi:

[tommygun]

+1 from the naki, let me know dates via 2smoker signals if required.

[klingon]

I'm told I can get from the Parliamentary secretary a schedule of where politicians are going to be on each day. If I can track the sec dude down (anyone know who he is?) we can maybe arrange that every time a pollie pops up, there's a bunch of bikers there .

As far as I know, each pollie has their own EA (Exec Assistant) who holds a full calendar of their whereabouts. Each EA has a different system of publicising where their boss will be - obviously they are keen for people to attend public appearances so will be very willing to share if we don't mention why we're asking. ;)

[Ixion]

Hm. The impression I got was that there was a "master list". Surely the Whips must have some schedule to show where each pollie is? Surely they don't just let them roam around unleashed ? I mean, y' can't even let a dog do that.

Contacting 120 EAs and asking for a schedule, then collating it all could be a bit of a mission.

[Headbanger]

I'll be there.

Loud and proud.

[klingon]

That calendar is a list of party events rather than parliamentary events. Yes, there is likely to be a master list somewhere but I don't know if we (the public) would have access to it.

[Mully]

I'm in for the local one in Auckland - possibly from wherever to Taupo-ish.

If we can get hold of a spare bike locally, my brother-in-law will join in (he don't got a bike, but).....

How about flash-mobs to wherever pollies are doing public appearances?

"I now declare this rest home open! Why are there 57 bikes at a rest home opening. What's that banner they're waving? ACC did what to them?"

[Ixion]

Yes. That's what I wanted .

[Genestho]

That calendar is a list of party events rather than parliamentary events. Yes, there is likely to be a master list somewhere but I don't know if we (the public) would have access to it.

Yea, I searched the parliament site first but no luck. Thought it might be a start? I'm not sure we'd have access to a Master List. Could ask? (stranger things have happened?) There is a schedule of select commitee meetings, but that's not wanted either.

Nope sorry, cannot find a public access Master list. Will delete last post for irrelevance.

[Maha]

I'm in for the local one in Auckland - possibly from wherever to Taupo-ish.

If we can get hold of a spare bike locally, my brother-in-law will join in (he don't got a bike, but).....

How about flash-mobs to wherever pollies are doing public appearances?

"I now declare this rest home open! Why are there 57 bikes at a rest home opening. What's that banner they're waving? ACC did what to them?"

Yeah I will be up for that, fuck riding to Wellington only to ride all the way home again.

[klingon]

Yeah I will be up for that, fuck riding to Wellington only to ride all the way home again.

gijoe laffs at you :rolleyes::baby::lol:

[Maha]

gijoe laffs at you :rolleyes::baby::lol:

I sure he will and im sorry for swearing.....:(

[klingon]

How about we all sponsor gijoe and he can ride AKL --> WGN --> AKL once for each of us? He will be a mob all on his own (and with his dress code Beehive security will be locking all the doors when he arrives)

[StoneY]

This household is in and I have two bikes to lend out if need be more bikes the better

I have one spare road legal bike I am willing to lend to a south island rider thats willing to attend the Wellington Leg of the BIKEOI

Rock on, this is a GREAT Idea Ixion (and you and I know we are not always in agreement)

:2thumbsup

[riffer]

As a Welly resident I could hardly say no.

House is open to those who need to stay the night too.

[ready4whatever]

We need to do something. even if we dont plan anything every biker that sees nick smith will be quick to serve the middle finger with the 2 words to match

[Hopeful Bastard]

Im getting my bike licence VERY shortly before prices go up on those too..

But i dont think i would have a bike by the time this BIKEOI! happens.. So anyone that is willing to lend a learner plate a 150 or a gentle 250, i will be more than happy to join :)

[Reido]

im in, keep me in the loop

[Mrs Busa Pete]

We will be in for this as well.


Is there going to be any petions going and if so why cant we ask Nick Smith to except out petion on arriving at parliment or the minister for acc.


Should you require any asstants re flyers petions what ever i'm willing to help out.
And i'll make sure my spell check is working first.

[DidJit]

I'm thinking mass protests in every major centre at the same time. The media would love to have reporters at each of them doing live crosses simultaneously.

[peasea]

We need to do something. even if we dont plan anything every biker that sees nick smith will be quick to serve the middle finger with the 2 words to match

Not very constructive and just the kind of bad publicity we don't need. I think this time we need to pull our heads in when it comes to abuse and middle fingers. I sympathise though.

Is there a date for a run to Welly yet????

[Swoop]

Forgot.

There has to be a specific bikeoi to Nick Smith's electorate office. Make him totally aware that we are thinking of him...

[peasea]

Forgot.

There has to be a specific bikeoi to Nick Smith's electorate office. Make him totally aware that we are thinking of him...

I heard a rumour one was being arranged but as yet no Nelsonians I know have got any details. Anyone got info???

PM me if you have and I'll get texting.

Going to his house would be better wouldn't it?

[Waxxa]

once in Wellington, the Mormon Few could ride their bikes up the stairs and into parliament building, kind of what that farmer did a few years back over the 'fart tax' I think it was...

[klingon]

BRONZ BIKEOI ! Man up or bend over and spread them

Ixion, are these our only two choices? I'm not intending to 'man up' (eeewww!) and I save the other option for special occasions - definitely not involving Nick Smith! :oi-grr:

[jetboy]

+1

I am in and so are many people I know.

[Eng_dave]

Ixion, are these our only two choices? I'm not intending to 'man up' (eeewww!) and I save the other option for special occasions - definitely not involving Nick Smith! :oi-grr:

I have another option I have a friend of a friend who is a news reporter for 20/20 NZ who would be willing to be interviewed for this???? male and females. Females kinda just turn peoples conceptions of what being a biker is, on their head.

[kathyw]

Your bikehoi is a great idea, but we also have to show people what will happen if all bike & Scooter riders were to abandon their vehicles and return to tin tops. How about we have a motorcycle free day - where we all go one car per driver. All over the country will be chaos. Mummies can take their precious darlings to school. There will be no parking spaces for the workers - they will have to walk twice as far. Traffic jams will reign sopreme. Road rage will increase with the traffic congestion. Car related accidents (ergo ACC Claims) will skyrocket - JUSTICE FOR ALL

[yungatart]

I'm in!
I'll even volunteer to speak if nobody better qualified puts their hand up....

[centaurus]

I agree: mass protests mainly in Wellington but if possible in all major cities in NZ. I'm in for Welly and any other in the extended area (lower half of north island).

At the end of the day the only thing they care about is public opinion. If they see if enough of us showing them the finger, they will start thinking about the future elections and be more carefull when decidin what's what. And on top of that the only way of getting public attention and really involving the media is by public meetings: as many as possible, as big as possible and as loud as possible.

Even if they are 100% legal demonstrations - if we get enough numbers to grind the traffic in the CBD to a halt and then do it again in Auck a couple of days later, and so on... the media will take notice.

[Toot Toot]

Put up a date so i can tell you if i'm in!

[GOONR]

I'l be in for a Auckland gig. Would be my first group ride too :)

[Woody2]

+1
I'm in and if anyone needs a place to stay (Paremata -25k north of Wellington SH1) - plenty of room for bike in garage as well. Name the day!
Woody.

[Jantar]

The date for the BIKEOI should be when parliament is in session and Nick Smith is present. It should also be well before submissions close so that those at the BIKEOI can exchange ideas on what to include in their submissions. Parliament is in session
October 13, 14, 15, 20, 21, 22, 27, 28 and 29
November 17, 18, 19, 24, 25 and 26

I would suggest the last week of October with the 28th as being the best date.

[86GSXR]

Excellent idea. Has to be done!

[Toot Toot]

The date for the BIKEOI should be when parliament is in session and Nick Smith is present. It should also be well before submissions close so that those at the BIKEOI can exchange ideas on what to include in their submissions. Parliament is in session
October 13, 14, 15, 20, 21, 22, 27, 28 and 29
November 17, 18, 19, 24, 25 and 26

I would suggest the last week of October with the 28th as being the best date.

I think the 28th is too soon to properly organise it, the November dates could be better??

[Mom]

I think the 28th is too soon to properly organise it, the November dates could be better??

There will be many of us already working a short week because of Labour Day too :yes: and there will be those of us that cant simply say, Oh, I am not going to be at work next week at the real risk of losing our jobs.

[Jantar]

I think the 28th is too soon to properly organise it, the November dates could be better??

All those dates in November are after submissions close.

[Mom]

All those dates in November are after submissions close.

I dont think that makes a blind bit of difference farnkly. The closure of submissions is a deadline for us to formally make our opinions known. No decision will be made on the 11th November. Any protest action we take leading up to that time is all good as far as I am concerned :yes:

[GOONR]

I dont think that makes a blind bit of difference farnkly. The closure of submissions is a deadline for us to formally make our opinions known. No decision will be made on the 11th November. Any protest action we take leading up to that time is all good as far as I am concerned :yes: Your right, no decision will be made on the 11th, it's been done already.. cynic, me, never..:whistle:

[pzkpfw]

The Ministers' had all the info for at least a Month already.

[Owl]

Well two from this house are keen.:2thumbsup

I've already warned my boss I'll be needing some time off, so just need a date. If he refuses, I'll just have to develop an illness that day.:puke:

[Mrs Busa Pete]

I think the 28th is too soon to properly organise it, the November dates could be better??


You are wright there Toot Toot but the goverment hasn't given us much time to put our objections through. How much notice where we given in the 93 protest ride Fuck all same as now.





There will be many of us already working a short week because of Labour Day too :yes: and there will be those of us that cant simply say, Oh, I am not going to be at work next week at the real risk of losing our jobs.

We are not talking about a week we are talking about one day which would be the Friday probably




I dont think that makes a blind bit of difference farnkly. The closure of submissions is a deadline for us to formally make our opinions known. No decision will be made on the 11th November. Any protest action we take leading up to that time is all good as far as I am concerned :yes:

That is the point we want our opinion shown by a united show of numbers. It didn't take much in 93 and it won't take much now.

[Insanity_rules]

As a Welly resident I could hardly say no.

House is open to those who need to stay the night too.

I'm up the road from ya so right in for the ride. We should rally the Upper Hutt troops.

[chanceyy]

I am so in for this .. welly sounds good :clap:

Once we have a date sorted, have friends & ppl who know ppl who are not kb members keen as to join in .. so texting info once its sorted could be a major goer :clap:

[Cynic]

How about each of the major centres except Wellington then Wellington the next day... bit more exposure....

[phred]

This fambly is in. I'll round up a few NON KB riders as well.

[martybabe]

Count the martybabe household in. :mad:

[nudemetalz]

Me and the Guzzi are in !!

BTW Bistard, ya look great on TV3 News !!! :clap:

[Mom]

That is the point we want our opinion shown by a united show of numbers. It didn't take much in 93 and it won't take much now.

Agreed!


BTW Bistard, ya look great on TV3 News !!! :clap:


Possible to find a link for the non TV watching members of the forum?

[StoneY]

I have another option I have a friend of a friend who is a news reporter for 20/20 NZ who would be willing to be interviewed for this???? male and females. Females kinda just turn peoples conceptions of what being a biker is, on their head.

Im in, 39 year old IT prof with 2 big bores, and I had my well written letter to Breakfast read out too, (and got lots of bling thanks folks)

I represent and can keep my cool despite the trash posts I make here (trolling we call it lol)

Seriously, willing to be part of any public exposure to our plight, and am a damn well practiced orator too, as I do large corporate trainings etc in my role
;)

[nudemetalz]

Possible to find a link for the non TV watching members of the forum?

Try here :)
http://www.3news.co.nz/National-negotiates-with-ACT-over-ACC-competition/tabid/370/articleID/125771/cat/525/Default.aspx

[Katman]

Remember........

If we fuck this up, we're fucked.

[chester]

Im waiting for a knee operation from a wee incident off a bike, ill see if I can get my money back from paying for my rego :Pokey:

[StoneY]

Remember........

If we fuck this up, we're fucked.

Yep, again I agree with you (not our usual situation is it?)
Amazing how this has united the troops........

[stify]

Remember........

If we fuck this up, we're fucked.

true true...but if it does go tits up we should lobby the maori party and the act party members, cause without their help national won't get it through anywhere near on time for it to take effect next year..

[Hopeful Bastard]

Public Protests start monday?


Something on here i havent quite yet read is there?

[yod]

Your bikehoi is a great idea, but we also have to show people what will happen if all bike & Scooter riders were to abandon their vehicles and return to tin tops. How about we have a motorcycle free day - where we all go one car per driver. All over the country will be chaos. Mummies can take their precious darlings to school. There will be no parking spaces for the workers - they will have to walk twice as far. Traffic jams will reign sopreme. Road rage will increase with the traffic congestion. Car related accidents (ergo ACC Claims) will skyrocket - JUSTICE FOR ALL

a good idea but it may not be recognised for what it is unless we cover the cars in literature

if we have plenty of bikes it should still do the trick, especially in downtown Welly on a week day

[bogan]

Remember........

If we fuck this up, we're fucked.

most certainly, must be a unified response, Ill leave it to bronz to come up with the details for any protest/demonstrations I attend. Ill be rocking a protest t-shirt every day from when I get it though.

[ital916]

Happy to represent here in auckland, but with major final year exams, might not be able to make it to welli unless it is at the end of november. Then I can.

Bottom line, let me at em here in aucks.:mad:

[Skyryder]

I like the Bikeoi. That's a headline grabber on it's own.



Skyryder

[T bone]

I'm in for this. Could we do a rolling road block with bikes into Wellytown??? like the truckers, if theres a heap of us we could just roll into town slowing everyone up??

I don't know welly very well, but just a thought

[Hopeful Bastard]

I'm in for this. Could we do a rolling road block with bikes into Wellytown??? like the truckers, if theres a heap of us we could just roll into town slowing everyone up??

I don't know welly very well, but just a thought


Yeah, There are multiple on/off ramps and the roads are 3-4 wide.. I am sure 2-3 bikes per lane would make them shut up..

[Motu]

Well,I was in for this.You can count me out now,I'm having nothing to do with disruption for the public.

[chanceyy]

I am with you Motu we need other road users support not pissing them off, our issue is with National & ACC not other road users ..

so if we are gonna piss off other road users, no thanks

if we are gonna show a united powerful front to the powers that be .. then yes I will be there

[Owl]

I'm in for this. Could we do a rolling road block with bikes into Wellytown??? like the truckers, if theres a heap of us we could just roll into town slowing everyone up??

I don't know welly very well, but just a thought

That'll be great for public support...............Not!:rolleyes:

:Playnice:

[Hispid]

I am in for Auckand whatever the plan is.

[DidJit]

It is our democratic right to protest. Protest leads to raised awareness. Can you imagine the major centres' CBDs when 1,000s of bikes come rumbling through in the middle of the day? Everybody will leave the office or at least stop work to stare out the window as our noisy and colourful processions ride past. People love watching large numbers of bikes rolling by — look at boobs on bikes! (Granted, the naked flesh was probably the main drawcard there... ;)) We'd need the media reporting from every major centre as this happens — the news programmes would love it!

What we do need to make sure of is that we do this properly via official channels and that there is plenty of warning (and information about our argument) for both the public and CBD affected businesses.

[paddy]

I can see the red-rep coming already, but my two cents worth:

I don't think you want to hide it all from the cops and keep meeting locations a secret etcetera. I think it would be much safer to involve the cops. We don't need to be doing anything illegal to protest and getting the cops on-board early and developing a safety plan between the BIKEOI organisers and the cops has to be a good thing. It's is my understanding that the rights to assemble and protest are enshrined in NZ law - part of the NZ police role is therefore to facilitate this.

With forewarning, the police should be able to arrange some traffic management to make the ride safer for all involved. What we don't want is a BIKEOI where people incurr injury as that would serve to make the reverse point to that we are trying to make (regardless as to who is at fault).

A good safety plan, a pre-ride briefing, and some traffic management reduces the risk (to my mind anyway).

[MyGSXF]

Taken from Nick Smiths website... his recreational activities... :rolleyes:


"Recreation:
Kayaking, tennis, tramping, fishing, rugby

..Strong involvement in sporting organisations.

Completed 1995 Coast to Coast with MP Bill English
Kayaked Cook Strait 1999 with MP Bill English
Completed Rainbow Rage in March 2000"

[twotyred]

Taken from Nick Smiths website... his recreational activities... :rolleyes:


Recreation:
Kayaking, tennis, tramping, fishing, rugby

..Strong involvement in sporting organisations.

He left off his favorite recreational activity....:tugger:

[puddytat]

As far as I know, each pollie has their own EA (Exec Assistant) who holds a full calendar of their whereabouts. Each EA has a different system of publicising where their boss will be - obviously they are keen for people to attend public appearances so will be very willing to share if we don't mention why we're asking. ;)

Well Id say Nick Smiths EA will be first on the list.....imagine "OUR"presence at all his upcoming appearances on whatever issue that he's got his devious hands on....

But I do agree with others that we should try not to fuck off other road users rather also point out to them that thier costs are going to go up too...

It will also be a useful excercise in getting people to work together & to be herd & to get out on the street & protest. I think that there are many other issues that will in the future only be stopped by the likes of you & I getting out there & making a stand.

[Hopeful Bastard]

I can see the red-rep coming already, but my two cents worth:

I don't think you want to hide it all from the cops and keep meeting locations a secret etcetera. I think it would be much safer to involve the cops. We don't need to be doing anything illegal to protest and getting the cops on-board early and developing a safety plan between the BIKEOI organisers and the cops has to be a good thing. It's is my understanding that the rights to assemble and protest are enshrined in NZ law - part of the NZ police role is therefore to facilitate this.

With forewarning, the police should be able to arrange some traffic management to make the ride safer for all involved. What we don't want is a BIKEOI where people incurr injury as that would serve to make the reverse point to that we are trying to make (regardless as to who is at fault).

A good safety plan, a pre-ride briefing, and some traffic management reduces the risk (to my mind anyway).

Yes. Most definitely. Involve the police as much as possible. That way, It will be a safer ride for us!


It is our democratic right to protest. Protest leads to raised awareness. Can you imagine the major centres' CBDs when 1,000s of bikes come rumbling through in the middle of the day? Everybody will leave the office or at least stop work to stare out the window as our noisy and colourful processions ride past. People love watching large numbers of bikes rolling by — look at boobs on bikes! (Granted, the naked flesh was probably the main drawcard there... ;)) We'd need the media reporting from every major centre as this happens — the news programmes would love it!

What we do need to make sure of is that we do this properly via official channels and that there is plenty of warning (and information about our argument) for both the public and CBD affected businesses.


As i said just a second ago.. Get the police involved.. Get tv1 news and tv3 news to be at the centres where we are gathering. the government DEFINITELY cannot turn down a MASS protest aired on national tele!

[Laxi]

the government DEFINITELY cannot turn down a MASS protest aired on national tele!

farrk I hope thats a piss take:rolleyes:

[Bend-it]

Well, I'm in for a bikeoi... Work on the waterfront and have my bike with me everyday, so definitely keen... Fridays are better, less chance of client meetings etc... The Friday after labour weekend? 30th Oct? The 1st protest I'll have ever joined a day before I turn 30! Woo hoo!!

I'm from Singapore... there, if you protest, you disappear... :weep:

[sinfull]

Did you see Key on the news saying, awww crikey that Rodney hyde has some good ideas, yes we will think about opening ACC up to privatisation (competition) !
And you still think we can stop this by talking !!
How far is he up the Maori parties arse, awww wait, could it be that he gave in on the .... What was that he gave them not just a day or so ago ? Crikey He gave Maori TV the world cup !!!
Obvious he has Acts vote, where is he with the Maori party ?
Last nights parliment sitting was just a handshake come piss up !!
The legislation allowing them to change the ACC levies will pass !
I'm packing my slingshot !!!

I say once more Bulls, See ya's on the bridge on labour monday Arvo at 4pm !
Have ya banner saying " No to ACC Levy hikes, No to privatisation, or, Hello Americanisation !!!
T shirts and banners welcome !
I will see all you other Davids there, i'll bring My slingshot !!!
__________________

[NZsarge]

That'll be great for public support...............Not!:rolleyes:

:Playnice:

I think so too, pissing the greater percentage of the NZ public would NOT be helpful.

[sinfull]

It is the perfect time of the year to do this !!! Half hour on that bridge will ensure the next two hours of traffic are still in good spirits and get to read all the friggin facts !!!
I'm saying we could have billboards held up all the way along that bridge while the traffic (wasn't me who held em up, say a 500 mtr stretch of plackards would cause a nice rubber neck effect) travelled at 10kph reading allll the facts !!

[Hopeful Bastard]

It is the perfect time of the year to do this !!! Half hour on that bridge will ensure the next two hours of traffic are still in good spirits and get to read all the friggin facts !!!
I'm saying we could have billboards held up all the way along that bridge while the traffic (wasn't me who held em up, say a 500 mtr stretch of plackards would cause a nice rubber neck effect) travelled at 10kph reading allll the facts !!


When were you thinking? And is this the bridge in bulls?


Not very far for me to travel. Might see ya there!

[sinfull]

When were you thinking? And is this the bridge in bulls?


Not very far for me to travel. Might see ya there!
Sort of hoping a Bikeoi might get moving Friday with a couple more function/conference centres being found, able to house a mob (not that they're invited) along the route !!!

Can you see the news ???
Lookout National (ACT And more n likely the Maori coalition) there's a mob of bike riders gathering momentum !! Before you can sit and make laws to crush us !!!

[Mort]

Definitely needs to be a mass public protest . If that pisses some of the public off then so be it....but we do it responsibly. Yes, we involve the police.. but if they prevent the protest then we go with an agreed plan. Like said above ..."if we fuck this up (or let the police stop us) we're fucked. Nobody will ever roll back these levies.


We need a single national co-ordinating point here. Bronz would seem to be the logical choice but is it National ??.
We need a decision on dates and tactics. We must focus on a single date or series of dates. Our protest should be legal but definitely not lame or a once only event. We have to give every appearance of serious opposition to this change.
We need Regional co-ordinators with local protest plans but co-ordinated on a national and synchronized scale. Each co-ordinator needs a press rep and a police rep. Maximum publicity. Every major city. Every TV channel as well as major and local news papers.
We need input and support from MNZ and the bike trade. We also need to liaise with other groups like Ulysses.
There should also be some KB shock-troops assigned to following that bastard Nick Smith around for a while.
I also call upon the moderators of Kiwi Biker to bring some order to the chaos on this forum. Everyone feels like a voice in the crowd. We need to get organised. PLEASE set up a single locked down thread which we can focus upon... we dont need a thousand answers to every point we need a co-ordinating voice.
We also need locked down threads for each regional area. Wellington, Auckland, ChCh etc.



If I can help in any way at all...I'm in.

[Clean_up]

Count me in! Im rather new to biking, but HELL those increases are INSANE!!!! Yeah faitr enough that the risk is higher for someone on a bike, but the way they are going about it is wrong...maybe something more along the lines of a "road user charge' for bikes, cause the more your on the road, the higher the risk??? Thoughts??

[carver]

once in Wellington, the Mormon Few could ride their bikes up the stairs and into parliament building, kind of what that farmer did a few years back over the 'fart tax' I think it was...

I am quite keen...
how far in could i get?

[JohnR]

im in, keep me in the loop


Hm. The impression I got was that there was a "master list". Surely the Whips must have some schedule to show where each pollie is? Surely they don't just let them roam around unleashed ? I mean, y' can't even let a dog do that.

Contacting 120 EAs and asking for a schedule, then collating it all could be a bit of a mission.

Hon Rick Barker may be able to help there. Does anyone know him well enough?

[Stan]

I'm pretty sure that any Labour MP would be only too happy to help out with information on where Nick Smith or John Key will be at any particular time.

The downside to asking them for help is that then the government can dismiss protesters as Labour Party activists.

[wisefxx]

+1 from aucks

dates and meetings places would be good. have to get time off work.

[Coldrider]

Hon Rick Barker may be able to help there. Does anyone know him well enough?
Yep, lives not far from me, but don't want to upstage StoneY do I,

[Ixion]

Hon Rick Barker may be able to help there. Does anyone know him well enough?

We are hopeful that he will be at the Wednesday night meeting. If so , we can ask him.

[AD345]

The Wednesday meeting promises to be interesting. With the way the Maori party and ACT are dancing around the mooted legislative changes to ACC (yes, not the Minister controlled levy rates).

We need to keep our focus on what we are trying to achieve here. This, as I understand it, is about the size of the rate increase as it pertains to motorcycles - thats ALL it is.

I'm not going to be party to, and will actively resist, any attempts to link these protests to ideological debates on the future of ACC. You can bet the last buck you have that the pollies we might involve will have no such limitations.If Barker gets enough personal mileage out of this that Hyde starts to sees us as a publicity outlet for his ACT lunacy bandwagon I will be watching BRONZ's response with a great deal of interest.

[Ixion]

I agree. Our bitch here is with the size of the levy increase.

Anything else is another matter for another time.

We just don't have the time to get into "what should ACC be " discussions. And , they would split us up. There is support amongst bikers for just about every possible arrangement. And no group will agree with the others.

But the thing we ALL (with maybe a couple of exceptions) agree on , is we don't want to pay these new levies.

As to Mr Barker, I imagine his interest is that we may help make National "uncomfortable". The general public perception is that motorcyclists are being unfairly sandbagged. Add that to Mr Smiths woes and National look like they're foundering. Which is good for Labour, hence Mr Barker supports us . That, and the fact that he rides a Rocket 3 .

Gotta keep our eye on the ball.

[Coldrider]

Rick Barker was a Union Organiser.
Nick Smith is stretching the sell, but is straight up about the numbers involved. In fact, I would deal with Nick Smith only.
I thought that the levies are implied by the ACC act, and that the Minister, via Order in Council, could change those levy values at his descretion.

[klingon]

Rick Barker was a Union Organiser.
Nick Smith is stretching the sell, but is straight up about the numbers involved. In fact, I would deal with Nick Smith only.
I thought that the levies are implied by the ACC act, and that the Minister, via Order in Council, could change those levy values at his descretion.

Yes, the Minister has the power to change the amount charged and does not require a change in the law to do so.

But the more pressure we can put on the Minister from all sorts of different angles, the better.

[Coldrider]

Yes, the Minister has the power to change the amount charged and does not require a change in the law to do so.

But the more pressure we can put on the Minister from all sorts of different angles, the better.
Exactly, so why is Nick Smith immersing these changes with the changes to the ACC Act that require to be changed?
Is this consensus open government operating?
Is he wanting the debate to happen?
Is he giving us a chance to express ourselves PC touchy feely world we live in?

[Ixion]

Rick Barker was a Union Organiser


So was I !



Nick Smith is stretching the sell, but is straight up about the numbers involved. In fact, I would deal with Nick Smith only.
...

He is, more or less. They're not quite the way he puts it, but our fuindamental problem is that ACC do have a valid point - we're costing them more than they collect. If that were not so, our task would be easy (in fact, we wouldn't have one)

So, from their point of view , the obvious answer is to collect more from us. Whether that's fair, or equitable, just doesn't come into it for them . It's a pure bean exercise.

Mr Smith however has a duty (well a moral one anyway) to consider issues of fairness, equity, and other stuff outside the pure accounting context.

Hence, our focus on the politicians.

But, it is still vital to get those submissions in to the ACC so they can't claim we don't care.

(The AA on the other hand are pure evil. They've been pushing this hard for some time, out of pure malice and malevolence . May they all rot in hell with syphilitic spiders sucking on their genitals, for all eternity)

[centaurus]

He is, more or less. They're not quite the way he puts it, but our fuindamental problem is that ACC do have a valid point - we're costing them more than they collect. If that were not so, our task would be easy (in fact, we wouldn't have one)


There is a problem here and I'm surprised nobody has brought it up (or at least I haven't seen anybody bringing it up).

On one hand ACC is supposed to be a "no fault finding" system (or whatever is the correct term) - basically an egalitarian system, so they don't bother calculating how much of the money payed to injured motorcycles is of their fault and how much is the car drivers' fault. However, on the other hand, when it comes to cars vs. motorcycles, they forget that it is an egalitarian system and split them apart, setting different levies for each.

If it is indeed an egalitarian system all road registered vehicles should pay the same amount. If not, they should see who causes the accidents that create the injuries they need to pay for and make that category of road users pay for them (in our case most for the bike accidents are caused by car drivers).

I think this should be added (in a better form than above) to the list of arguments against the ACC levy increase to the proposed ammount. This way (as it has been said above) we concentrate only on one subject to debate.

[StoneY]

I am quite keen...
how far in could i get?

It was an MP who did it and Police prosecured him Carver

Im all for the Mormon Few bro but not THIS time (one legal fund running NOW!)
:clap::clap::clap:

However...maybe...maybe you and ya crazy mates can give a "sanctioned' demo of stunt skills somewhere sometime to thrill public, boost opinions, PR sort of shit?

HAS to be PC tho bro ;)

Maybe?

[Ixion]

There is a problem here and I'm surprised nobody has brought it up (or at least I haven't seen anybody bringing it up).

On one hand ACC is supposed to be a "no fault finding" system (or whatever is the correct term) - basically an egalitarian system, so they don't bother calculating how much of the money payed to injured motorcycles is of their fault and how much is the car drivers' fault. However, on the other hand, when it comes to cars vs. motorcycles, they forget that it is an egalitarian system and split them apart, setting different levies for each.

If it is indeed an egalitarian system all road registered vehicles should pay the same amount. If not, they should see who causes the accidents that create the injuries they need to pay for and make that category of road users pay for them (in our case most for the bike accidents are caused by car drivers).

I think this should be added (in a better form than above) to the list of arguments against the ACC levy increase to the proposed ammount. This way (as it has been said above) we concentrate only on one subject to debate.

Yes. You are quite correct.

Bikes, and only bikes, are singled out to be hit up. They could as easily single out SUVs for instance. But don't. And the real injustice is that if they put SUVs into a separate category they wouldn't pay much because in a crash an SUV driver is less likely to be hurt. Whereas when we are singled out we end up paying the cost (as far as ACC accounting goes) of both our mistakes, and the othe rpeoples.

[Hopeful Bastard]

However...maybe...maybe you and ya crazy mates can give a "sanctioned' demo of stunt skills somewhere sometime to thrill public, boost opinions, PR sort of shit?

HAS to be PC tho bro ;)

Maybe?


Hehe.. I could be in for watching this ;)

[dipshit]

However...maybe...maybe you and ya crazy mates can give a "sanctioned' demo of stunt skills somewhere sometime to thrill public, boost opinions, PR sort of shit?


Great, then the public will think we are a bunch of immature fuckwits.

Are all motorcyclists as thick as pig shit..???

[scissorhands]

Obviously some speeches for the media, and maybe a chance to address either an ACC droid or a pollie.[/QUOTE]

Lets not rile the people we will rally against, by denigrating them. Even if its true.

Just like a cop doing his job, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir (except higher bike taxes sir)

[Genestho]

Agreed. Everyone is human and deserves respect, you get a little further if you put forward a good argument and sensibly state your case, without the BS:girlfight: To do otherwise is to create your own crappy PR.

People do listen.

[k2w3]

Centaurus's post about ACC either being an egalitarian system or not is very interesting. However I think the egalitarian nature of the ACC system was lost many years ago. It might have been the holy grail of ideas at its inception, but look at employment ACC levies. The riskier your job, the higher the ACC levy.

My office occupation attracts quite a high levy (God only knows why - paper cuts?), but it's less than, say, a tree-feller.

So I'd go the whole hog. If it's user pays, make it user pays. Insurance actuaries have no problem assigning risk/cost.

[Katman]

Fucks sake John - you're not doing us any favours.

I'm sure ACC would have a field day with that video of one of the regional protest ride organisers.

Grow up man.