how do you get smoove cornering technique?

[surfchick]

i just came back from a ride by myself to the end of the parakai rd (missed the wellsford turn...). it's nice an wiggley and I've got some questions bout getting nice cornering technique- (i've read the bit about lines in the biker bible but...)

if the turns are tight at the end of a straight do you guys chop down through the gears as the main form of breaking? or do you cram on the anchors more- or a bix of both...

i take it that theoretically there should be no deceleration once you are turning the corner unless you bung up the entry (like i did today...) and that powerful accelleration can happen once you can see the way out of the corner?

i tend to ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs cause it feels more connected to the bike than having my arches on them, but then you have to move your whole foot to the gears and back break- any suggestions?

any general tip for things to practice with cornering? any big-time don'ts? i con sort of feel that time on the road might correct a few bung habbits, but sometimes it's better to know how things should be done first...

[TwoSeven]

I'm not sure. None of my dictionaries can tell me what smoove is :)

Here is a basic training thing.

Ride the circuit at below/legal limits and dont use the brakes and stay in the same gear. It will dawn on you after a bit that you dont want to accelerate so hard and you are shutting the throttle earlier. You'll find you'll be dead smooth and also using the right lines.

The whole competition here is to not use the brakes and try not to change gear.

After you can do your whole circuit without using the brakes and with minimal gear changes, then you can start looking at the brakes. By this time you will be well smooth. :)

To make it harder, dont take racing lines on the road - only idiots do that. Take the safe lines, it will polish up your riding skills big time because it makes some of the corners tighter :)

[LED]

easy tiger.....take your time.....what ever feels comfortable for a while and build up the confidence, (this is pretty cheap coming from me but anyhow....)would suggest the BRONZ site with their details of training rides some months out in Whenuapai.......I mean when would you ever bother to get out cones etc otherwise. Apparently its great value and may take time off a learners or restricted. Someone may be able to help with that one. As for corners......it'll happen grass hopper!

[Waylander]

And you can always join some of the fellas and fellasess on here for a track day. From the look of things XJFrosty is plannin another one for around October down at Taupo. I plan on doin that one myself to help me corner better so I wont be surprised by hidden curves and dickhead cagers. You can also follow some of the better riders around the track and see what they are doing and then try it yourself, albeit at a much slower speed.

[flyin]

keeping your toes on the pegs if definatly the way to go!! you can lean further too cos your boots wont be scraping contsantly........

when approaching a corner, engine braking is usefull but bad for the motor to do too much, using front brakes should be the main form reduction in speed, plus the harder you brake the longer you get to hold your speed....stil accelerating up to the corner.......ALWAYS brake before the corner on the STRAIGHT

power needs to be applied evenly through the corner, slowly increasing revs the entire time, this keeps the bike balanced and weight on the rear wheel (handy cos it does all the steering once leaned over)

Theres a good write-up of tips and riding techniques around on this site, link below, should you be keen for a read........ well i read up then practiced a little, adapted to what felt right for me and now (4 months later) guys who know how to ride are telling me that I look like i know what i'm doing so there must be some good tips.....

here- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=8401&highlight=riding+tips

[John]

to add to the above, crash into a ditch or run off the apex or something it makes you corner much more smoothly next time, well so I hear. :ride:

[flyin]

to add to the above, crash into a ditch or run off the apex or something it makes you corner much more smoothly next time, well so I hear. :ride:


Great point there John!! this is indeed the fastest way to improve ones riding!!
has to be done by all at one point or another.....I've done it twice myself..made my riding HEAPS smoother.... just hope/pray that it is meerly into a ditch etc at low speeds.......

[Sparky Bills]

just look to the exit of the corner.
Even if your going too fast, keep your eyes up.
While in the corner, keep your upper body (including arms) relaxed.
The suspension is working hard enough as it is with having to take extra weight too.
and inside shoulder pointing into the inside of the corner.

Ok, thats the end of the SB rider training school.
Next lesson, we will learn the art of elbow scraping.
Happy Riding.

[riffer]

just look to the exit of the corner.
Even if your going too fast, keep your eyes up.
While in the corner, keep your upper body (including arms) relaxed.
The suspension is working hard enough as it is with having to take extra weight too.
and inside shoulder pointing into the inside of the corner.


Yup. That's right. But I gotta tell you its bloody scarey sometimes when you know your bike can go around the corner and every nerve in your body is telling you that you can't get around.

Damn that self-preservation instinct. :whistle:

[justsomeguy]

Look where you want to go............ ALWAYS.

No matter what the rest of your instincts tell you always look at where you want to be even if it seems like you're going off keep your attention focused on the piece of road/vanishing point, etc that you want to ideally be on.

I am a very inexperienced rider and get caught out on this quite a few times. Target Fixating is a huge nuisance:angry2:

Do what they do when trying to get an olympic gold....... practice

[Pwalo]

Good advice guys. Just remember look where you want to go, and PRACTICE. It's the only way you get better.

Believe me it does get easier.

Ciao.

[trev]

If you want something to refer to try the following books :-

Smooth Riding The Pridmore Way Reg Pridmore

Twist of the Wrist ( & other titles ) Keith Code

You can get them from TechBooks in Newmarket for $50 or
order them online through either Whitcoulls or PaperPlus for less but wait 5 - 10 days.

I've only read the Pridmore book & it has some helpful tips & whilst I've got
a lot of practicing to see major improvements I found his ideas worked
on the Coro ride yesterday.

[scumdog]

just look to the exit of the corner.
Even if your going too fast, keep your eyes up.
While in the corner, keep your upper body (including arms) relaxed.
The suspension is working hard enough as it is with having to take extra weight too.
and inside shoulder pointing into the inside of the corner.

Ok, thats the end of the SB rider training school.
Next lesson, we will learn the art of elbow scraping.
Happy Riding.

Too true, look as far ahead as you can see (around the corner) and keep your head up focussed on the exit, you'll be amazed at how much smoother your cornering will be. :niceone:

Don't worry too much about what's on the road 20 or so yards ahead, whatever you see on the road at that distance is unlikely to be able to be avoided and if you corner looking only that far ahead you'll find you corner in a series of jerky 'turn-straighten-turn-straighten' movements.

[Posh Tourer :P]

any general tip for things to practice with cornering? any big-time don'ts? i con sort of feel that time on the road might correct a few bung habbits, but sometimes it's better to know how things should be done first...

What I would do is try a variety of different lines, at a slow pace. You will soon see which feels easiest. Even if you know the theory, this will reinforce exactly how it feels to get a line right. I take it you have read theory about apexing? The best bit of advice I have for anyone is to apex *late* on the road. Always. Late apexes remove the worry factor, as you will never run wide out of a corner (unless of course you go waaayyy too fast...). Also, you can see round the corner better. Much much safer than an early apex.

Try a few different apexes slowly, and you will feel the difference. The rest will come all on its own. As you pick up the pace, you will, without having to think about it, pull the apex back to a normal one (ie the fastest line - but not the safest).

[Motu]

I don't get this whole ''apexing'' talk,like,after 35 yrs I still can't talk the talk.The apex is in the middle of the corner and is the result of what went before,it's determined by your entry.I like a late quick turn in,lay it down and get on the gas early - a modified dirt technique,the pivot turn.Apex and exit are the result of your turn in,you don't just decide on your apex mid corner,or your exit at the apex

The best way to learn smooth riding is to get a gutless bike and learn to keep the pace up,this teaches to keep braking to a minimum,corner speed up and throttle on,it doesn't mean going fast,it means keeping up momentium,it's so hard to get back up to speed you learn never to loose it.This is how Kenny Roberts taught road racing skills,he made his pupils race mini bikes on dirt tracks,this taught them never to back off and loose speed.

[FzerozeroT]

I tried searching for the "survivors line" but couldn't find it. It's the same as Motu is talking about, the "racing line" is just that, for racetracks where you know whats around the corner and have done the corner before. Try that shit in the real world and you can end up in a world of hurt.

In a race line when there are trees etc in the way you "assume" where the apex and if the corner is closing radius like the first pic you have to either back off the gas and try and tighten your line and you come out of the corner leaning, off the gas and usually on the wrong side of the road (Waikato Rally 2 anyone?) or in the grass, even on a constant radius corner you end up near the centre line so if any oncoming traffic is playing silly buggers you're in the shit again.

Survivors line you slow down until you can see the exit then drop it on it's side, line up the exit then hard on the gas, the bike will pick itself up and you're off no stress involved, usually the apex speed is lower, but thats good in case there is something around the corner (sheep, gravel, a biker who took the race line and canned off) and because you can get on the gas harder and earlier you don't lose too much time to the "race line" and because the apex is tighter more chance of knee down ;)

[Ixion]

..
The best way to learn smooth riding is to get a gutless bike and learn to keep the pace up,this teaches to keep braking to a minimum,corner speed up and throttle on,it doesn't mean going fast,it means keeping up momentium,it's so hard to get back up to speed you learn never to loose it...

Mis-spent youth riding gutless bikes, I still hardly ever use my brakes . When you're limited to BSA Bantam power you learn to not waste any of that precious mementum, cos it's just too hard to get it back. Helped of course that brakes on most bikes back then were completely useless anyway.

And I don't like committing to a corner until I can see right round it, so I'm also a "late in hard over and power on and upright as soon as possible". It's not the fastest way on seal (is on gravel) but it's a lot safer than a racing line.

[flyin]

Nice diagrams Fzero.... lines are a little rough but I'm sure most will undertand....

AHHH the joys of prodrive..... lines, apexes, braking points, vanishing points and generally where to look was drilled into me and a whole bunch of other Welly schoolkids (free of charge), Thrashing round the seaview horce racing track in starlets, I attended the motorsport NZ sponsored course when i was 15, taught all sorts of fun braking and turning techniques. I'm fairly sure its still running so if you know anyone on the road (especially young drivers) who havn't attended get into action! This stuff SHOULD be general knowledge of EVERY road user!! Info was always available at the college offices......

I beleive this training has kept me alive and gave me a huge headstart when I woke up and got me a motorbike! also gave the basics into some of the jargon thats thrown around among bikers so I knew what you all were talking about when i first got here......

Yeah little bikes are the best way to learn abut retaining momentum..... :2thumbsup

[bear]

I agree with FzerozeroT, and riding to the vanishing point on the road allows good control. Recently attended a course with Roadsafe and we worked through it (cornering is my section to work on too).
Riding to the vanishing point (furtherest visible piece of road) means looking at the vanishing point, if it is getting closer then the corner is getting tighter, if moving away then the corner is opening up.
Following a wider line as illustrated above allows for you to see more of the road ahead.

You might find some tips here also: http://www.megarider.com/Articles/articles.html

[TwoSeven]

Couple of points on that.

Its a good basic rule to remember to give you a basic idea of what a corner will do, but you shouldnt be relying on it to actually take the corner. I can show you quite a few roads around here where the lane tightens up, but the other side lane gets wider - so the vanishing point rule gets busted. Double apex corners are a classic where the visible apex loosens up and the second [hidden] one tightens.

Second point. If your riding in such a manner as to have to rely in vanishing points to dictate your speed around corners I suspect that at some stage you wont make it round a corner.

I use the rule if you cant see round a corner, then slow down until you can see around it. I've been known to almost come to a halt (25kph) approaching a corner because its too dodgy to just make a blind drive round.

I do that because i've been caught out many times on blind corners with sheep, rocks, cars, pot holes, bits of wood, coke bottles, the odd person, changes of direction and all sorts of stuff.

The same rule applies to any situation where you cant see the road ahead due to hazards (city driving), or even not being able to see down a side road.

Back to my original post. Practice the no throttle use on corners and also a game - try and do it keeping to the center of your lane.

To me, taking a corner smooth has nothing to do with the line you take (that affects speed thru the corner). Smoothness is all down to basic bike handling skills and not upsetting the handling of the bike.

[Ixion]

Couple of points on that.

...

I use the rule if you cant see round a corner, then slow down until you can see around it. I've been known to almost come to a halt (25kph) approaching a corner because its too dodgy to just make a blind drive round.

I do that because i've been caught out many times on blind corners with sheep, rocks, cars, pot holes, bits of wood, coke bottles, the odd person, changes of direction and all sorts of stuff.

The same rule applies to any situation where you cant see the road ahead due to hazards (city driving), or even not being able to see down a side road.
...


What that man said. Play it safe, live to play another day. Always assume that a ravening monster is around the corner, because sooner or later, there will be .

[woody68]

Te best thing to do is get out with some of the faster guys and follow them then get them to follow you and do the same corner over and over.
You will learn how they do it.

I missed a couple of apexes on sunday and had to hold on to the brakes way deeper in to the corner than I would of liked.But keep looking at the exit not the ditch on the side of the road
You have to trust your bike, tyres and your self to go fast.

Also when your out on the road in your car or your bike take note of the differance between a 25k ,35k,45k corners there is a theory to them.
I spent 3 1/2 years driving all over NZ and after a while you start to see the differance.

Good luck

[Jantar]

.... The best way to learn smooth riding is to get a gutless bike and learn to keep the pace up,this teaches to keep braking to a minimum,corner speed up and throttle on,it doesn't mean going fast,it means keeping up momentium,it's so hard to get back up to speed you learn never to loose it.This is how Kenny Roberts taught road racing skills,he made his pupils race mini bikes on dirt tracks,this taught them never to back off and loose speed.

Too true Motu, Many years ago I used to enjoy entering road trials on a 125 cc road machine. Most times I would end up being the winner. A small, low powered machine that can just manage the legal speed limit sure does teach you to ride a smooth line. :niceone:

[Posh Tourer :P]

To me, taking a corner smooth has nothing to do with the line you take (that affects speed thru the corner). Smoothness is all down to basic bike handling skills and not upsetting the handling of the bike.

The reason I'm concerned with lines is because if you are able to go fast through the corner, when you take it at a reasonable pace you will have more time, visibility and room (in terms of grip, line and roadspace) to manouvre in case of something unexpected.

[Posh Tourer :P]

I don't get this whole ''apexing'' talk,like,after 35 yrs I still can't talk the talk.The apex is in the middle of the corner and is the result of what went before,it's determined by your entry.I like a late quick turn in,lay it down and get on the gas early - a modified dirt technique,the pivot turn.Apex and exit are the result of your turn in,you don't just decide on your apex mid corner,or your exit at the apex

The best way to learn smooth riding is to get a gutless bike and learn to keep the pace up,this teaches to keep braking to a minimum,corner speed up and throttle on,it doesn't mean going fast,it means keeping up momentium,it's so hard to get back up to speed you learn never to loose it.This is how Kenny Roberts taught road racing skills,he made his pupils race mini bikes on dirt tracks,this taught them never to back off and loose speed.


I think we are using different words for the same thing. I describe a corner by it's apex cos it is easier than saying "a late quick turn in,lay it down and get on the gas early". I dont necessarily focus on the apex as th key part of it. The entry and late turn in are the real components, from which follow a late apex.

Re the second paragraph, look at TS....


And I don't like committing to a corner until I can see right round it, so I'm also a "late in hard over and power on and upright as soon as possible". It's not the fastest way on seal (is on gravel) but it's a lot safer than a racing line.

I'm not sure that it isnt fast.... Especially if you take into account less scaring yourself shitless, or crashing......


I tried searching for the "survivors line" but couldn't find it. It's the same as Motu is talking about, the "racing line" is just that, for racetracks where you know whats around the corner and have done the corner before. Try that shit in the real world and you can end up in a world of hurt.
In a race line when there are trees etc in the way you "assume" where the apex and if the corner is closing radius like the first pic you have to either back off the gas and try and tighten your line and you come out of the corner leaning, off the gas and usually on the wrong side of the road (Waikato Rally 2 anyone?) or in the grass, even on a constant radius corner you end up near the centre line so if any oncoming traffic is playing silly buggers you're in the shit again.
Survivors line you slow down until you can see the exit then drop it on it's side, line up the exit then hard on the gas, the bike will pick itself up and you're off no stress involved, usually the apex speed is lower, but thats good in case there is something around the corner (sheep, gravel, a biker who took the race line and canned off) and because you can get on the gas harder and earlier you don't lose too much time to the "race line" and because the apex is tighter more chance of knee down.

Very good, well said. I reckon we've about covered the benefits and aspects of a late apex/dirt bike line/survivors line - whatever you want to call it....

Hows that?

[TwoSeven]

The reason I'm concerned with lines is because if you are able to go fast through the corner, when you take it at a reasonable pace you will have more time, visibility and room (in terms of grip, line and roadspace) to manouvre in case of something unexpected.

Its actually the opposite on all your reasons.

[TwoSeven]

I think we are using different words for the same thing. I describe a corner by it's apex cos it is easier than saying "a late quick turn in,lay it down and get on the gas early". I dont necessarily focus on the apex as th key part of it. The entry and late turn in are the real components, from which follow a late apex.


I think I understand. I was told a technique years ago where you use 'action points' to start moves rather than use apexes as references. I think that kind of works better. I'm rubbish at being able to pick up an apex, but I find it easier to pick an action point.

But my view of what the terms mean.

Squaring off the corner (early apex) is where you go in wide and late and turn the corner into a sharp 90 degree turn. It works on the principle that the less time the bike is leaned over the sooner you can be on the gas and the harder you can accelerate and brake. You have to be on the opposite side of the track from the corner (or out that way). Most corners are done this way

A late apex means that your turn in starts much earlier bringing the apex forwards around the corner towards you. The result is that once you get round the corner, you then have to turn again to stop yourself running off the track. Its that double turn thats the classic for a late apex. You'll see it happening at the exit to sweepers (ruapuna is a classic). Also, watch someone like james toseland in superbikes - you will see him throw his body to the side to keep the bike upright as he does the second part of the turn.

If you draw a curve from the outside of the track, to the inside of the track and back out to the outside, a normal apex will be the point of where the line touches the inside curb. Very few corners require this (usually merged corners)

Once you learn which apex to use one which corner, you then need to chuck it all in the bin and learn "sets". The basic objective is to make a straight line as possible thru multiple corners or to remove corners completely.

An example of merging corners is the two left handers are ruapuna before the dipper, these are taken as one sweeper apexing in the middle on the outside of the track. The result is you are able to use the gas in the dipper earlier. Its all throttle control here (from my dodgy memeory)

An example of straight lining corners is levels raceway chicane (from what I can see), the entry is in a bizare place, but you can pretty much drive thru the remaining corners.

An example of a set at ruapuna would be the right hand before fulton hogan corner (square it off), slow then hold to the right (inside) side of the track, square off fulton hogan and hold the left (outside), merge the following 'race ready' corner.

[thats how I do it, others will probably have better lines, its been ages since i've been round there].

Couple of things I also do. First thing is I count the beat like in music. So its 1,2,3, turn tight - 5, 6, 7, throttle off, - 1, turn loose, throttle on, 4 - 1, 2, 3, 4. What beat you use is up to you. It helps when you say the action you also say the track position. Walking out the set is good to find the sequence of events, ride it slowly to get the slow beat, then just pick up the pace and count a faster beat. I've found it easier to learn 2 or 3 sets rather than 14 corners.

Also, no braking points. I use only set entry points (for starting my beat count) and turn in/action points (for single corners). I find that my subconcious does the braking automatically if I decide to turn at a given place. But people have their own opinons on this.


Thats what i've managed to figure out over time. Not sure if its remotely like what they teach, could end up being a pile of shite, but it works for me :)

[surfchick]

What that man said. Play it safe, live to play another day. Always assume that a ravening monster is around the corner, because sooner or later, there will be .


all you guys are the bomb- great advice and lots to thing about. i had amde the mistake of thinking the racing line only applied to my side of the road- so go wide on the entry then near the centre line then wide again- thereby sort of straigtening out the corner. I was sort of trying to do this in the weekend - my head full of technique etc when on one blind corner up parakai way a beamer came round on my side and gave me a total fright. :angry2: wierd thing was same thing happened not long after when a car came round a blind corner towing a huge boat. car was on his own side but the boat trailer was wider and on mine. as a new rider i think one wierd thing is how far over your head moves when the bike leans toward the centre line- and i'm thinking it's a good idea to give plenty of room.

that said- being a surfer- the funest sensatiuon of riding is the cornering. i'm not so interested in straight line speed at all- but connecting smooth fast turns (safe) is my ultimate goal. i lurrrrv how dat feels...mmm candy.

[Waylander]

that said- being a surfer- the funest sensatiuon of riding is the cornering. i'm not so interested in straight line speed at all- but connecting smooth fast turns (safe) is my ultimate goal. i lurrrrv how dat feels...mmm candy.
Don't think that has much to do with surfing. It's more a biker thing, I started riding on the flat straight roads but got tired of them my first week. Took to weaving within my lane as a way to break the boredom. Loovin NZ roads cause not many of them are straight.:2thumbsup

[TwoSeven]

all you guys are the bomb- great advice and lots to thing about. i had amde the mistake of thinking the racing line only applied to my side of the road- so go wide on the entry then near the centre line then wide again- thereby sort of straigtening out the corner.

It does only apply to your side of the road. Never, ever go on the other side unless you are driving a vehicle with a loud siren and flashing lights. Dont know who said drive on the wrong side of the road - but they should be shot - only people who are poorly trained and cant ride bikes properly need to use more than the lane they are in. :)

[Gremlin]

But my view of what the terms mean.

Squaring off the corner (early apex) is where you go in wide and late and turn the corner into a sharp 90 degree turn. It works on the principle that the less time the bike is leaned over the sooner you can be on the gas and the harder you can accelerate and brake. You have to be on the opposite side of the track from the corner (or out that way). Most corners are done this way

A late apex means that your turn in starts much earlier bringing the apex forwards around the corner towards you. The result is that once you get round the corner, you then have to turn again to stop yourself running off the track. Its that double turn thats the classic for a late apex. You'll see it happening at the exit to sweepers (ruapuna is a classic). Also, watch someone like james toseland in superbikes - you will see him throw his body to the side to keep the bike upright as he does the second part of the turn.
My view on early and late is the opposite. I've always thought of the apex as being the point in a corner where you are the closest to the inside of the corner. But you can have double apexes (apexii??). Correct me if I'm wrong, but an early apex is where you touch the inside of the corner early on. Unusual, but usually used for double apexii...

A late apex is when you turn in late, and by far the best for road riding. As others have already said, you wait until you can the exit of the corner, or you can "see" the line through the corner and then you turn into the corner. Not the fastest, but much safer because it leaves room for error.

[LED]

It does only apply to your side of the road......

Holy boy.....what 2-7 said, this forum has come up several times previous when I surfed as a guest for about a year before deciding i may have enough cred/experience to make a few comments, so I apoligise there guys if my number of posts don't reflect my comments, but hells teeth this is dire....STAY ON YOUR SIDE!, and a huge caution of left handers as traffic cut the corner - especially out on back roads, if you want to use the whole road its the track for you....have a search on the site for those old threads and be safe out there!!

It's just like surfing...you're on a nice learners board, just take it easy and get some quantity in the waves rather than quality. Believe me your worse ever experience in the big 'washing machine' is nothing to coming off on the seal..........enjoy :msn-wink:

[surfchick]

no- don't worry- i didn't think you drove straight across the road- more was thinking of it in an abstract sense. I'm a bit superstitious about keeping to my side of the centreline even in a car when I can see the road is clear. funny reading about where the best place to apex is- is a bit like asking where is the best place to put your bottom turn eh LED? although I have seen both bikes and cars shoot over the centreline when they can see its clear. Not my thing though. by the way mr led- it was mal waves here in pauanui today and real board waves last sat. :mobile: bugger wrong smilie :niceone:

[Gremlin]

not only should you keep to your side, but you should also keep your head inside your lane as well (ie, when cornering keep your bike more to the middle of the lane). Wouldn't want to lose your head while going round a corner...

[Motu]

Dont know who said drive on the wrong side of the road - but they should be shot - only people who are poorly trained and cant ride bikes properly need to use more than the lane they are in. :)
I didn't say it - but yes I do ride on the wrong side of the road as part of my smooth riding technique.The bikes I ride,the tyres I use,and the roads I ride are much more ''on the edge'' than what most here are into - to ride on knobs,on a wet road with constantly changing surfaces one has to ride very,very smoothly...braking,throttle and steering inputs are all gentle,I keep up momentium as I previously mentioned...and I cut right hand corners to the inside gutter,and as ''someone'' else mentioned,I will straighten a series of corners - apex,apex,apex.Come along for a ride one day and I'll show you how it's done...

[TwoSeven]

...... tyres I use,and the roads I ride are much more ''on the edge'' than what most here are into - to ride on knobs,on a wet road with constantly changing surfaces one has to ride very,very smoothly...braking,throttle and steering inputs are all gentle,I keep up momentium

You riding an american bike then. Must be one of them there harley machines. They take a lot of momentum building to get a ton of iron to hit 55mph :msn-wink:

[Waylander]

You riding an american bike then. Must be one of them there harley machines. They take a lot of momentum building to get a ton of iron to hit 55mph :msn-wink:
Nah not hard to hit 55 on a harley just hard to turn it at anything faster.

[Motu]

You riding an american bike then. Must be one of them there harley machines. They take a lot of momentum building to get a ton of iron to hit 55mph :msn-wink:
Yeah,I'd love an XR750...my dream bike,100mph sideways...and no brakes...you don't want to slow one of those things down!

[Posh Tourer :P]

Squaring off the corner (early apex) is where you go in wide and late and turn the corner into a sharp 90 degree turn.

Ie you apex further round the corner (hence late apex)


A late apex means that your turn in starts much earlier bringing the apex forwards around the corner towards you. The result is that once you get round the corner, you then have to turn again to stop yourself running off the track.

If you turn again, thats a double apex according to me. The early apex (ie it happens earlier than a racing line - your late apex) usually means that you run wide coming out of the corner, tighten the sphincter, and hit the brakes....


If you draw a curve from the outside of the track, to the inside of the track and back out to the outside, a normal apex will be the point of where the line touches the inside curb. Very few corners require this (usually merged corners)

On the road they won't. On the track, isn't that a normal line?


Once you learn which apex to use one which corner, you then need to chuck it all in the bin and learn "sets". The basic objective is to make a straight line as possible thru multiple corners or to remove corners completely.

Heh yeah, but thats the fun part of it all


An example of merging corners is the two left handers are ruapuna before the dipper, these are taken as one sweeper apexing in the middle on the outside of the track. The result is you are able to use the gas in the dipper earlier. Its all throttle control here (from my dodgy memeory)

Err, I'd call that a double apex, in that you apex the first corner early and the second late, but I see your logic - the apex of *your* line would be on the outside. I usually talk about the apex of the corner rather than your line.


An example of a set at ruapuna would be the right hand before fulton hogan corner (square it off), slow then hold to the right (inside) side of the track, square off fulton hogan and hold the left (outside), merge the following 'race ready' corner.

By squaring off, you are doing what I would call a late apex. Great to set you up for a series of left-rights (or right-lefts) as you are already in position for the next when you leave the last. Sets like that are what motorcycling is all about.....

[magnum]

hi and welcome,best to pick an appropriate gear for the corner and excellerate thru a corner,ie in slow out fast[for a learner anyhow]. :niceone: