Bike positioning on the road when cornering?

[CookMySock]

I have seen a few threads about "where to position your wheels when cornering" but not really any reasoning why. The only thing has been "keep your head and bike inside your lane."

Yesterday I got a fright mid-corner doing about 100 clicks after clipping a catseye with my front tyre. A massive uncontrolled highspeed swerve ensued, and I am fortunate to be upright.

When you are in the right-hand half lane, and in a left-hand fast sweeper, put your tyres, not the bike in the center of the right half-lane. If you position the bike in the right half-lane you will very likely clip a cats-eye with your front tyre during left-handers. The resulting WHACK and massive uncommanded swerve is highly unamusing I assure you, and apparently in the wet you can kiss your ass goodbye.

As you were!
Steve

[p.dath]

I would recommend you buy Keith Codes's books (Twist of the Wrist and Twist of the Wrist II). They are cheap, I bought them from amazon.com.

Keith Code is one of the top motorcycle instructors in the world. He runs the California Superbike School.


The short answer to your questions is - there is no one magic line. It depends on the rider, the road, the bike, and your strong and weak points.

[jetboy]

... I got a fright mid-corner doing about 100 clicks after clipping a catseye with my front tyre. A massive uncontrolled highspeed swerve ensued, and I am fortunate to be upright.


Steve

Yeah this happened to me the other day too.

From what I've read and heard from fellow bikers the best thing to do is put the tyres where the right wheels of a car would be, which (for me anyway) is most definitely the case in the rain as cars tend to get rid of most of the standing water, however I don't follow this rule to a tee as sometimes you get the massive strips of tar down this side which, I have learned through doing, can also be bloody slippery.

[george formby]

On the road positioning yourself for maximum visibility through a corner is paramount, left handers- to the right of your lane, right handers to the left of your lane. These are quick lines too, the xtra visibility can allow a higher corner speed & you can get back on the throttle earlier as the vanishing point recedes. Your line is always

[Rodney007]

I would recommend you buy Keith Codes's books (Twist of the Wrist and Twist of the Wrist II). They are cheap, I bought them from amazon.com.


yeah that book teaches you about how to ride fast on the race track not how to avoid cats eyes.

[p.dath]

yeah that book teaches you about how to ride fast on the race track not how to avoid cats eyes.

The book is track focused. I'm a road rider predominately. But I still found it very valuable.

Tracks have bumps, rough patches, and areas to avoid - just like a road. The only real difference is the speed.

It's like learning to counter steer. Initially you do it automatically, but once you understand how to do it deliberately your riding takes a big step forwards.
These books take you through the mechanics of cornering (as well). You know how to corner automatically, but once you understand the mechanics of how it works it helps take you to a new level.

So I found the knowledge very applicable.

[awa355]

All the experts talk about turning in, the 'Apex', the lift zone etc. After 40t years of riding, I still cant fathom out how they can pick the Apex of a corner that keeps on unfolding as you continue around. Many corners have a blind exit, or could be described as long curves or the corner straightens, then curves in again.

Where you can see the complete corner laid out in front of you as you approach, then sure, you can follow the dotted line remembered from a website diagram.

For me, I go in wide, ( left for a right, right for a left) follow the arc of the corner untill I see the exit then I pick my exit line.

[BMWST?]

For me, I go in wide, ( left for a right, right for a left) follow the arc of the corner untill I see the exit then I pick my exit line.

and on a unknown road thats the only sensible way to do it...

[bikemike]

I don't think I've ever ridden without thinking about where the wheels are.

I will have to think on that...

[The Stranger]

I have seen a few threads about "where to position your wheels when cornering" but not really any reasoning why. The only thing has been "keep your head and bike inside your lane."


Why? - It's not rocket science steve - it helps with staying alive apparently. Occasionally other vehicles approach from an opposing direction. If you should colide with one this can be very bad for you - apparently.

[Ragingrob]

Why you would be riding so far in the middle of the road let alone trying to take a left corner there, where cars may cut the corner or ride the centre like you are, I would never know.

:confused:

[The Stranger]

Yesterday I got a fright mid-corner doing about 100 clicks after clipping a catseye with my front tyre. A massive uncontrolled highspeed swerve ensued, and I am fortunate to be upright.

When you are in the right-hand half lane, and in a left-hand fast sweeper, put your tyres, not the bike in the center of the right half-lane. If you position the bike in the right half-lane you will very likely clip a cats-eye with your front tyre during left-handers. The resulting WHACK and massive uncommanded swerve is highly unamusing I assure you, and apparently in the wet you can kiss your ass goodbye.

As you were!
Steve

That cats eye certainly did some serious psychological damage didn't it. So you wee'd yourself, get over it.

For fuck sake steve, it's only a cats eye. it didn't just jump out at you. you hit it. Don't hit the fucken things and it wont be a problem. There is no reason why you shouldn't be in the "right half-lane" in your scenario above. Hell if you are 20mm off of the cats eyes it's not a problem.
To say you "will very likely" hit a cats eye is just pure bullshit. These things aren't random acts - if you choose to not run over one you wont.

In all honesty, if you can't exert sufficient control over your bike to safely avoid cats eyes whilst in the right wheel track on a left bend either you or your bike needs some real SERIOUS work as this is real simple stuff. Stop trying make a big deal of it.

[The Stranger]

Why you would be riding so far in the middle of the road let alone trying to take a left corner there, where cars may cut the corner or ride the centre like you are, I would never know.

:confused:

Guilty. I frequently start a left bend from the right wheel track - or right on the centre line if speed dictates and conditions permit.
The right side of the lane allows you to both see and be seen better and I basically try to fit in the most open radius curve practicable into my lane.
Why not?

[NighthawkNZ]

A massive uncontrolled highspeed swerve ensued, and I am fortunate to be upright.

Welcome to the real world of motorcycling...

[Ragingrob]

Guilty. I frequently start a left bend from the right wheel track - or right on the centre line if speed dictates and conditions permit.
The right side of the lane allows you to both see and be seen better and I basically try to fit in the most open radius curve practicable into my lane.
Why not?

And would you be riding the centre line with catseyes on it?

Cars that clip corners will already be on the centre-line if not slightly in your lane.

I would definitely try to start the corner as far right as possible within my own lane, i.e. not on the centre line.

[The Stranger]

And would you be riding the centre line with catseyes on it?

Cars that clip corners will already be on the centre-line if not slightly in your lane.

I would definitely try to start the corner as far right as possible within my own lane, i.e. not on the centre line.

You can see cars that clip corners sooner and react sooner to avoid them if you are out to the right and looking to your vanishing point. Just the other day on the scenic drive a bus was half in my lane on a left hander. Not a problem, I was entering the corner from the RHS of the lane. I saw it well in advance thanks to my lane position. Had I been to the left I would have had a hell of a surprise.

I accept your comments on the centre line, however if you re-read the OP you will note he is advocating avoiding the RHS of the lane entirely as if this somehow frequently leads to hitting cats eyes. It doesn't, as I noted, IF you miss them by 20mm it's still a miss (that shouldn't be interpretted as saying that I am advocating that you should miss them by just 20mm). They don't suddenly move around on you. So NO I'm NOT advocating riding on the centre line, I really didn't think I conveyed that message. I did say stay within your own lane.

[Subike]

When it is wet the first rule of saftey is slow down,
two things to avoid, Black shinny bits, White shinny bits.
Its wet, and you are having to plan your corner to get the fastest line through it, thinking of where you must position the bike etc etc etc!
YOU RIDING TOO FAST FOR THE CONDITIONS.
You could argue all day about how to corner
how fast you can corner
the right lines for the corner
how counterstereing could have improved this because..... XYZ
But ! DB you were going too fast for the conditions, the cats eye reminded you of that.
Slow Down in the wet , and live to ride tomorrow when its dry.

[jonbuoy]

There's no one answer, twisty road that cages often cut over centre line - stay left, pissing down with rain follow car tyre tracks, road drying up after rain follow the dry track in the middle of the lane. Loose seal from driveway - stay right. Sunken manhole cover left or right. etc etc...Repeat. Theres no perfect line because there's no perfect road.

[Goblin]

Blah blah blah... you can kiss your ass goodbye.

As you were!
SteveCan you lick your balls too?

[The Stranger]

road drying up after rain follow the dry track in the middle of the lane.

Have you ever wondered why it dries in the middle of the lane first?

[jonbuoy]

Have you ever wondered why it dries in the middle of the lane first?

Yeah but not too much hot engines/exhausts?

[george formby]

There's no one answer, twisty road that cages often cut over centre line - stay left, pissing down with rain follow car tyre tracks, road drying up after rain follow the dry track in the middle of the lane. Loose seal from driveway - stay right. Sunken manhole cover left or right. etc etc...Repeat. Theres no perfect line because there's no perfect road.

Yup, the perfect line is the one that fits at the time, a good day on a good road is the ideal but most of the time it's avoiding hazards. Like cats eyes, little buggers.
I think the middle of the lane drys first because car tyres are not depositing more water on it.

[The Stranger]

Yeah but not too much hot engines/exhausts?

Engine, diff and gearbox oil has over time formed a waterproof coating on the surface of the seal. Riding on the north western after a light rain you will note the all the pretty colours down the middle of the road. I avoid the centre of a motorway or busy road like the plague thanks.

[jonbuoy]

Engine, diff and gearbox oil has over time formed a waterproof coating on the surface of the seal. Riding on the north western after a light rain you will note the all the pretty colours down the middle of the road. I avoid the centre of a motorway or busy road like the plague thanks.

Yeah but I've found the centre IF its dry is still stickier than the wet - horses for courses. When the centres wet its wet, over here if it hasn't rained for a few months the first downpour is a nightmare - the roads are literally foaming with oil and crud, after half hour of rain it gets washed clean and its fairly safe to ride on.

[discotex]

Cornering (on the road) isn't a black art. It's simple if you follow some basics.


1a. Don't aim for the apex of a corner until you can see the exit - if you can't see the exit how would you know it's really the apex?

1b. Late apex where possible anyway. It's a good habit to be in as it allows you to see more of the road ahead (to avoid cages cutting corners, pot holes, etc) and will stop you running wide on the exit of corners.

2. Start the corner from the opposite side of the lane to the direction you're turning - going left start from the right.

3. Don't cut across the white line and "straightline". Mainly 'cause going in a straight line is boring but it's also a dodgy habit.

4. On right handers aim to keep your head inside the white line. Pretend it's a wall (because one day it will become one in the form of a vehicle coming the other way)

5. Get your braking done before you enter the corner. Pick up the throttle once at the lean angle you want and slowly but surely wind it on towards the exit.

6. Keep your eyes up and looking where you want to be next not at what's just in front of you.


Obviously adjust to the conditions etc etc.

[The Stranger]

Cornering (on the road) isn't a black art. It's simple if you follow some basics.


1a. Don't aim for the apex of a corner until you can see the exit - if you can't see the exit how would you know it's really the apex?

1b. Late apex where possible anyway. It's a good habit to be in as it allows you to see more of the road ahead (to avoid cages cutting corners, pot holes, etc) and will stop you running wide on the exit of corners.

2. Start the corner from the opposite side of the lane to the direction you're turning - going left start from the right.

3. Don't cut across the white line and "straightline". Mainly 'cause going in a straight line is boring but it's also a dodgy habit.

4. On right handers aim to keep your head inside the white line. Pretend it's a wall (because one day it will become one in the form of a vehicle coming the other way)

5. Get your braking done before you enter the corner. Pick up the throttle once at the lean angle you want and slowly but surely wind it on towards the exit.

6. Keep your eyes up and looking where you want to be next not at what's just in front of you.


Obviously adjust to the conditions etc etc.

7. Avoid cats eyes.

[jimmy 2006]

8. keep your speed down

[Ragingrob]

8. keep your speed down

Once you've changed direction more speed helps the turn ;)

[ManDownUnder]

I avoid the centre of the lane as a general rule. As The Stranger mentioned - that's where oil etc tends to be, but just as important for me, that's where you sometimes find "stuff". Stones, shoes, bolts... god knows what.

Anything solid will be kicked out of the car wheel tracks as they pass, and migrate either to the edges of the road (most often), or sometimes to the middle.

[NighthawkNZ]

7. Avoid cats eyes.

and the cat it self... ;)

[pritch]

While riding around East Cape once, a ute with tray nearly took me out as he went past in the opposite direction. For the remainder of the trip I used an imaginary white line half a meter to the left of where the real one would have been (if there actually was one).

[Morcs]

Its funny when noobs are telling us how to corner. (DB and Pdath)

:pinch:

[Chrislost]

I have seen a few threads about "where to position your wheels when cornering" but not really any reasoning why. The only thing has been "keep your head and bike inside your lane."

Yesterday I got a fright mid-corner doing about 100 clicks after clipping a catseye with my front tyre. A massive uncontrolled highspeed swerve ensued, and I am fortunate to be upright.

When you are in the right-hand half lane, and in a left-hand fast sweeper, put your tyres, not the bike in the center of the right half-lane. If you position the bike in the right half-lane you will very likely clip a cats-eye with your front tyre during left-handers. The resulting WHACK and massive uncommanded swerve is highly unamusing I assure you, and apparently in the wet you can kiss your ass goodbye.

As you were!
Steve

Fuck mate!
If a single, knee down cats eye nearly put you on your ass you should not be telling people how to ride...
you should be concintrating on relaxing your grip on the bars, using your ass cheeks to hold the seat, and looking where you are going!
Further-more, you should be controling that tankslapper with your right hand, and weighting the correct footpeg to keep steering round that corner...

[Chrislost]

I agree that bike positioning is important!
For example, i found that i was more likley to have cars pull in front of me if i rode in the left wheeltrack as opposed to the right one.
I also found that hopping into teh oncoming lane coming up to left handers ment i could carry more speed, or less lean angle, whichever was prefered on the particular corner.
I also found that approaching right handers on the outside of the left hand wheel track and using the right wheel track as an apex i could get around corners reconably quickly.
You DO NOT want to be approaching right handers in the right hand half of your lane, ever, ever, ever! (think oncoming traffic taking your head from your shoulders)
You can approach a left hander in the left of your lane, but you will probably smack your head on a reflective post half way round, and they leave chips/dings in your helmet, which track day scrutineers fail you on, reslulting in having to buy another before riding there.