Well, that f****ed that ride, dinnit...and a question please

[slofox]

Had the big plan for a ride today - out to Kawhia, round the harbour, down past Marakopa and follow on to SH3. Then home via circuitous routes to be decided on the fly. Sorta what the LOR had planned for the other weekend.

Start out early to beat the expected rain - figured I could get there and back before midday and stay dry all the way.

On the road at 6.30am. All good apart from some fog in Waikato's swamp basin. Past Pirongia and eventually turn off to Kawhia. No more fog. Nice windy road through the hills to look forward to.

Into the twisties and I am thinking "Shit! - I'm riding like a dork today!" Corners are difficult to say the least. Bike doesn't really wanna go round them - it's fighting back and just wants to go straight. And as we go further it just gets steadily worse.

Until eventually even my thick skull starts to wonder just WTF is going on. And I begin to doubt the integrity of the tyres...either that or a wheel has fallen off somewhere.

Stop at the turnoff to Harbour Road. Put 'er on the stand and poke the tyres. Front is rock solid as usual. Go to the back..hmmm can poke my finger right into it. That's not right!

So out with the handy pressure gauge...which reads 0.0 psi. Soooooo! Fuckin puncture is it then? Bastard! Lucky for me I am prepared with my handy Fiximup puncture repair kit in the seat bag! NOW I am glad I bought it all those ages ago...course I have never read the instructions and have no idea how to use it. So I sit on the gravel and pull out the instruction sheet.

"First find your puncture"...which is easier said than done. We're not on the flat here - the verge slopes away and the road does as well. By this time the rear wheel is on the rim and the stand is a little long to put down on the uphill side, so I have to manhandle the bike into a position where it will stay on the stand and not roll off it. Bikes don't roll all that well with a flat tyre I discovered...

So I poke around the tyre for ages (could have used a paddock stand here) and eventually find a bit of a tear in the rubber that goes deepish and I decide that in the absence of any other evidence that this must be the hole. Back to the instruction sheet..."poke the reamer into the hole and shake it all about" or words to that effect. Which I do. And then figure out how to do the insert bit - man those things stick to ya fingers eh?

Finally get all the fiddly bits sorted and do the inflation thing with the CO2 cylinder. Tyre rises up! Woohoo, we're cookin' again. Check the pressure - 12 psi...mmmmm maybe the other CO2 cylinder as well huh? Which I duly do.

That's when I hear the telltale "ssssssssssssssss". Fuckit, musta screwed the insert bit. But no, not leaking there. Stick the ear close and find the air is coming out of a totally different hole! I can feel it easily with the finger. Damn! It's just around from the one I have fixed and is in the bottom of a tread line. No wonder I couldn't see it. So what to do? I have already used both gas cylinders. Better fill the hole quicksmart.

So out with the reamer, a real fast in and out and in with another plug. This bugger just didn't want to go in (tiny hole) but a bit of brute force and ignorance soon sorts that. Done.

I check the pressure. 10.5 psi. Not the best. I figured I might limp to Oparau and see if the servo there has an air pump. But then I notice the farm opposite where I am and wonder if they have a pump I could borrow.

Right on cue, the farmer comes out of the drive in his ute. I give him the wave and he stops..."You lost are ya?" he asks. "Nah - just a flatty but not quite enough air to go on with. You got a pump at all?" Better than that, he has a compressor up at the shed. So I pootle in there and bingo - 32 psi in three seconds! Good bloke he was an' all.

In accordance with the instructions in the tyre kit, I return to home base at reduced speed...suddenly I can corner again...how much better is that I ask.

So. What now? Has anyone any experience with these plug and inflate deals? Do they last or not?

The book says "get it professionally repaired or replace the tyre". In my case I am close to replacement anyway so will probably do that. But what would the "professional repair" be? And how good are the tyres after such treatment?

Moral of the story: ALWAYS carry a repair kit. And having a couple extra gas canisters as well would not be stupid...

[James Deuce]

I always say replace the tyre and then someone or three will pop in and shout me down.

If I get a flatty I replace the tyre especially a tubeless tyre and doubly so a 0 degree radial. I have this thing about trusting my tyres.

[Jantar]

I always say replace the tyre and then someone or three will pop in and shout me down.

If I get a flatty I replace the tyre especially a tubeless tyre and doubly so a 0 degree radial. I have this thing about trusting my tyres.

I'm another who replaces the tyre after any defect. That little ring of rubber is all that stops me from hitting the road and I want to know I can trust it.

[p.dath]

Don't forget, tyre repairs done with an external plug don't meet the WOF standard (only internal plugs).

I'd take it to a motorcycle tyre dealer, and seek their opinion. But the tyre doesn't sound like it is in that good of a condition.

[CookMySock]

I use them on my work vehicles and I have never had a failure. One leaked very slowly and had to be regularly reinflated, but thats all.

I'd just use it and not worry, unless it four of five plugs in it, then I think it would play on my mind too much. Those with lots of cash to throw at problems might just get a new tyre, but I don't have the income to support that.

Steve

[TimeOut]

Punctures can be fixed with an internal plug, they do it with the Aussie police bikes all the time.

But I'm with the others on replacing especially if you've had a fair bit of use out of it.

[beyond]

Sorry mate but that had me having a good laugh.
:)

Yeah, it's almost impossible finding a hole on an already flat tyre. I carry a bike pump now, the little ones, so you can pump away till you find the leak before wasting your cylinders.

AND.... why the hell it is so, I have no idea but two cyclinders will not pump a large bike tyre to anywhere near what it needs. You almost need to make sure you have four cyclinders for a single puncture :(

OR, use the bike pump to top her up. :)

[kwaka_crasher]

String repairs are not acceptable for WoF purposes but I've never had one fail. They now need to be patched from the inside with a mushroom head plug. As for whether to just replace the tyre that is up to you to decide based on a variety of factors such as remaining tread and how much you worry about an extremely unlikely event occuring.

[slofox]

Sorry mate but that had me having a good laugh.


I'm pleased - it was written to amuse. Although I wasn't too amused at the time of course...

Pressure has held up since I got it back here so don't look like its leaking.

Howsumever, this set of hoops is approaching 15,000km so is about to be replaced anyway. Looks like it will happen a little earlier than I had anticipated...the back is pretty square and the front is scalloped to hell. Pity I got no money just now of course...:whistle:

[Subike]

Oh the joy of a multi cylinder bike, I carry a spark plug pump in my kit, takes up the room of one gass cylinder, and is so easy to use. As I am not a high speed rider, :blink: I run tubed tyres, my last rear tyre when new, picked up a wire brush fiber, this created a very slow leak, it took a day to deflate. after several tube repairs, much cussing, frustration and hours of searching the tyre I finnaly found the offending fiber.
If I was to follow the policy of replacing the tyre when punture, I would have replaced a tyre that had less then 50 kilometers on it. Na. Having never had a problem with tubed tyres, I will continue to use them, yet I do agree with the replacement policy some of you riders, who do more milage, have.
But those spark plug pumps are really good.

[vifferman]

I have had three (3!) rear tyres fixed with internal mushroom plugs, two of which were for near new (less than 3 weeks old) tyres. No way I'm gonna throw those out, and I had not a skerrick of trouble with the repairs.
As for emergency gear, I have a small electric pump that fits in a bumbag, tankbag, or very large pocket. I should really buy an emergency tyre repair kit while I'm at it, I guess.

I have a suspicion that all the punctures I've ever had were caused by debris (usually screws or nails, but I've also had non-puncturing glass in my tread) picked up when riding on parts of the road where traffic doesn't normally go, like between lanes, in the gutter, etc. Of all the punctures I've ever had (6?) none have been front tyres. The theory is that most things you ride over (apart from z-nails, tyre spikes and the like) won't puncture the tyre, but if the front tyre (or the tyres of the vehicle in front) go over the debris, it often flicks it up into a position from which it can poke into the tread.

[boman]

I have fixed many tyres with the string repair. Have had 1 or 2 fail, but that was usually the result of shoddy work, rather than a failure of the repair. But I would recommend you get the holes fixed with a proper repair, from the inside, at least then you will know the state of the repair is good, and is not likely to fail. Well written funny storey though.

[Mully]

Apart from being not-WOF able (and therefore not covered by insurance) - I think it'd fuck with my head until I'd replaced it.

Have a chat with Mr Visa and replace it.

[slofox]

Have a chat with Mr Visa and replace it.

Mr Visa and I are not really on speaking terms just now...but he's just gonna have to front up - again...:angry:

[Mully]

Mr Visa and I are not really on speaking terms just now...but he's just gonna have to front up - again...:angry:

Try Mr Mastercard then........

[Kickaha]

String repairs are not acceptable for WoF purposes but I've never had one fail.

Having worked in the tyre industry for a decade or two I've seen these fail a considerable number of times, there has also been at least one fatality directly attributed to these repairs before they were made illegal

The biggest problem with them is that without removing the tyre you have no idea whether any internal damage has been done in the time the tyre was run underinflated

[Gremlin]

I've had to dogturd 2 of my tyres, one was near end of life and I swapped it out when I had the chance.

The other was almost fucken new, so I was naughty and rode on the dogturd... worked fine. Also had to dogturd a loan bike and did the whole South Island trip on the dogturd, worked just fine under quite a bit of load (wasn't going slow and carrying 40kg of luggage).

Those tyres have lasted about twice what a set of mine would... just replace em, and its safer too. :done:

[Headbanger]

Not only would I not trust the tire after the puncture damage, More importantly, I wouldn't trust a tire that had been ridden flat.

[Pussy]

Not only would I not trust the tire after the puncture damage, More importantly, I wouldn't trust a tire that had been ridden flat.

My sentiments exactly!

[slofox]

Not only would I not trust the tire after the puncture damage, More importantly, I wouldn't trust a tire that had been ridden flat.

Didn't actually run totally flat - until I had been stopped for several minutes.

Howsumever, in view of the age and general condition of that particular tyre and its mate on the front, replacement is a probable...

[carver]

i run 5psi in my beta!

it works good!

[avgas]

I love the goo in a can - which reminds me i need to get another.

[BMWST?]

the string is supposed be temporary repair.A proper repair is a patch inside the tire,exactly as is done on your car tyre.Noting wrong with that so no need to replace,unless of course the tyre damaged.But i think that unlikely as as the OP noted you cant run it flat without realising.A low profile car tyre however......

[JATZ]

I'm still comming to grips with the "15,000 k's" bit, mines toast on the trumpy after 10,000 mostly 2 up with some gear, and about 2500 on the DR

[vifferman]

...as the OP noted you cant run it flat without realising.A low profile car tyre however......
Or an SUV tyre.
I had a rear tyre go flat on the Pajero we used to own, a few kms from Pio Pio. I thought, "Hmmmmm... this feels funny on the corners - better check it at the next service station..."
It was empty of air, but because it had 12 meeeleeeon plies, it was not flattened.
Just ferkt.
Cost me $500 or summat, as I had to buy two new matching tyres when I got to Hawera.

[boman]

I love the goo in a can - which reminds me i need to get another.

If you mean a tyre pando, just beware, they love to corrode alloy rims when left in for a while.

[Mystic13]

First of all...

Get an electric pump. You can get some real small ones and Slime do one that is about the same size as the CO2 kit.

Secondly... damned amazing that you got the second plug in as the tyre was going down.

Farmers are usually pretty helpful and resourceful people.

[Owl]

Not only would I not trust the tire after the puncture damage, More importantly, I wouldn't trust a tire that had been ridden flat.

Especially two-up:whistle:

[nico]

the dog turd plugs are awsme, i had to use one ages ago and finshed the tyre off around 5thosand km's took 2 co2 canaster's then limp to gasy to er up the replasment canasters wernt cheep but cant put a price on geting home can ya:calm:


Had the big plan for a ride today - out to Kawhia, round the harbour, down past Marakopa and follow on to SH3. Then home via circuitous routes to be decided on the fly. Sorta what the LOR had planned for the other weekend.

Start out early to beat the expected rain - figured I could get there and back before midday and stay dry all the way.

On the road at 6.30am. All good apart from some fog in Waikato's swamp basin. Past Pirongia and eventually turn off to Kawhia. No more fog. Nice windy road through the hills to look forward to.

Into the twisties and I am thinking "Shit! - I'm riding like a dork today!" Corners are difficult to say the least. Bike doesn't really wanna go round them - it's fighting back and just wants to go straight. And as we go further it just gets steadily worse.

Until eventually even my thick skull starts to wonder just WTF is going on. And I begin to doubt the integrity of the tyres...either that or a wheel has fallen off somewhere.

Stop at the turnoff to Harbour Road. Put 'er on the stand and poke the tyres. Front is rock solid as usual. Go to the back..hmmm can poke my finger right into it. That's not right!

So out with the handy pressure gauge...which reads 0.0 psi. Soooooo! Fuckin puncture is it then? Bastard! Lucky for me I am prepared with my handy Fiximup puncture repair kit in the seat bag! NOW I am glad I bought it all those ages ago...course I have never read the instructions and have no idea how to use it. So I sit on the gravel and pull out the instruction sheet.

"First find your puncture"...which is easier said than done. We're not on the flat here - the verge slopes away and the road does as well. By this time the rear wheel is on the rim and the stand is a little long to put down on the uphill side, so I have to manhandle the bike into a position where it will stay on the stand and not roll off it. Bikes don't roll all that well with a flat tyre I discovered...

So I poke around the tyre for ages (could have used a paddock stand here) and eventually find a bit of a tear in the rubber that goes deepish and I decide that in the absence of any other evidence that this must be the hole. Back to the instruction sheet..."poke the reamer into the hole and shake it all about" or words to that effect. Which I do. And then figure out how to do the insert bit - man those things stick to ya fingers eh?

Finally get all the fiddly bits sorted and do the inflation thing with the CO2 cylinder. Tyre rises up! Woohoo, we're cookin' again. Check the pressure - 12 psi...mmmmm maybe the other CO2 cylinder as well huh? Which I duly do.

That's when I hear the telltale "ssssssssssssssss". Fuckit, musta screwed the insert bit. But no, not leaking there. Stick the ear close and find the air is coming out of a totally different hole! I can feel it easily with the finger. Damn! It's just around from the one I have fixed and is in the bottom of a tread line. No wonder I couldn't see it. So what to do? I have already used both gas cylinders. Better fill the hole quicksmart.

So out with the reamer, a real fast in and out and in with another plug. This bugger just didn't want to go in (tiny hole) but a bit of brute force and ignorance soon sorts that. Done.

I check the pressure. 10.5 psi. Not the best. I figured I might limp to Oparau and see if the servo there has an air pump. But then I notice the farm opposite where I am and wonder if they have a pump I could borrow.

Right on cue, the farmer comes out of the drive in his ute. I give him the wave and he stops..."You lost are ya?" he asks. "Nah - just a flatty but not quite enough air to go on with. You got a pump at all?" Better than that, he has a compressor up at the shed. So I pootle in there and bingo - 32 psi in three seconds! Good bloke he was an' all.

In accordance with the instructions in the tyre kit, I return to home base at reduced speed...suddenly I can corner again...how much better is that I ask.

So. What now? Has anyone any experience with these plug and inflate deals? Do they last or not?

The book says "get it professionally repaired or replace the tyre". In my case I am close to replacement anyway so will probably do that. But what would the "professional repair" be? And how good are the tyres after such treatment?

Moral of the story: ALWAYS carry a repair kit. And having a couple extra gas canisters as well would not be stupid...

[Squiggles]

I carry a spark plug pump in my kit, takes up the room of one gass cylinder

Awesome... a quick google reveals only vintage ones of em tho :crazy:

[slofox]

OK

Upshot is, replace the set of tyres. Was gonna cost $80 to repair the punctured tyre. New set for $500. Figured why spend $580 instead of $500. I reckon I would have been changing the set out in about three weeks or so anyway. So there ya go.

Pity I have to pay for them buggritbuggritbuggrit....:crazy:

[Ixion]

Trouble with spark plug pumps is 9a) on so many bikes getting the spark plugs out is such a mission it'd be easier to blow the tyre up with a drinking straw ; and (b) I've only ever seen them (spark plug pumps, not drinking straws) , in the "standard " 14mm thread. A lot of bikes use the modern little threads.

[smoky]

The biggest problem with them is that without removing the tyre you have no idea whether any internal damage has been done in the time the tyre was run underinflated
Not too many modern road bike tyres have a soft enough side wall to fold over when flat, so the rim normally can't damaging the internals. They can pretty much hold the weight of the bike and an average rider for a while with out the rim doing any damage to it



So. What now? Has anyone any experience with these plug and inflate deals? Do they last or not?

But what would the "professional repair" be? And how good are the tyres after such treatment?


The main difference is the plug from the outside may seal the leak, but it may not plug the entire hole or damage on the inside - once the tyre is pressurised again; there is the risk that you can get air leaking into the layers between the belts and tread - after a while your tyre can delaminate, the tyre can go out of shape or bits of tread can fly off (not very common).

The professional repair from inside the tyre not only plugs/seals the hole but the area around the hole is buffed and a vulcanising compound applied so the mushroom head of the plug is bonded completely and seals the area around the hole, reducing the risk

However it is important to know that any tyre repair is only rated for use on an 'R' rated tyre (up to 170 Klm/hr) so if your tyre is marked with anything else (say 'Z' which is most common) then they shouldn't be repaired

One reason is; higher performance tyres have thinner internal skin to allow for better thermal characteristics

[slofox]

Not too many modern road bike tyres have a soft enough side wall to fold over when flat, so the rim normally can't damaging the internals. They can pretty much hold the weight of the bike and an average rider for a while with out the rim doing any damage to it



I was surprised just how long it took me to realise exactly what was going on - the onset was so insidious and slow. But even when I did stop, the wheel was not down on the rim. That happened after I had stopped - I daresay the motion was keeping a little pressure in there what with heat generated etc. But i would have to say that this tyre handled deflation a helluva lot better than anything I ever used in the olden days.

The technology is way better than it was.

[p.dath]

I was surprised just how long it took me to realise exactly what was going on - the onset was so insidious and slow. But even when I did stop, the wheel was not down on the rim. That happened after I had stopped - I daresay the motion was keeping a little pressure in there what with heat generated etc. But i would have to say that this tyre handled deflation a helluva lot better than anything I ever used in the olden days.

The technology is way better than it was.

Perhaps you got a nail or something in the tyre, and it took quite a while to actually deflate (perhaps when it spat the nail back out again)?

[slofox]

Perhaps you got a nail or something in the tyre, and it took quite a while to actually deflate (perhaps when it spat the nail back out again)?

Musta been summat like that. There was nothing actually in the hole once I found it - and it was a pretty small diameter hole as well....and it was in the bottom of a tread groove...verily, 'tis a mindfucker...

[Kickaha]

Not too many modern road bike tyres have a soft enough side wall to fold over when flat, so the rim normally can't damaging the internals. They can pretty much hold the weight of the bike and an average rider for a while with out the rim doing any damage to it

It is nothing to do with the rim damaging the tyre, it is all to do with the tyre itself flexing more than it should and the damage will happen in a very short time

[insomnia01]

Earlier this year Jamroll & I headed down to Taumaranui to tackle the forgotten highway, A bad idea in some respects as Fulton Hogon where in the middle of redoing the gravel section & MAN there was some big suckers in there !!! :pinch::pinch: any how came off the gravel & bugger all the signs of a puncture ( bike steering where it likes ) pull over & sure enough rear has sucked the big one... start looking for said hole ,find one apply bung add Co2 halfway through hear another ppssssst, find 2nd hole,apply another bung with remaining Co2, ppssssssst ANOTHER HOLE???? find,fix ( starting to runout of Co2 NOW ) when fuck me a 4th hole :argh::argh::angry2: by now everything is starting to get VERY LOW especially my patience.. in the end & 4 BUNGS LATER we managed to kick off with only 28psi in the rear got to Startford let the tyre cool before adding required psi got back to TA without any further issues. I kept that tyre going for awhlie but the fact there was 4 bungs in there made me change it ASAP

[slofox]

Earlier this year Jamroll & I headed down to Taumaranui to tackle the forgotten highway, A bad idea in some respects as Fulton Hogon where in the middle of redoing the gravel section & MAN there was some big suckers in there !!! :pinch::pinch: any how came off the gravel & bugger all the signs of a puncture ( bike steering where it likes ) pull over & sure enough rear has sucked the big one... start looking for said hole ,find one apply bung add Co2 halfway through hear another ppssssst, find 2nd hole,apply another bung with remaining Co2, ppssssssst ANOTHER HOLE???? find,fix ( starting to runout of Co2 NOW ) when fuck me a 4th hole :argh::argh::angry2: by now everything is starting to get VERY LOW especially my patience.. in the end & 4 BUNGS LATER we managed to kick off with only 28psi in the rear got to Startford let the tyre cool before adding required psi got back to TA without any further issues. I kept that tyre going for awhlie but the fact there was 4 bungs in there made me change it ASAP

Deja vu reading that, insomnia1...I just bought a little compressor for next time...see "Cost of Tyre Repairs".