Motorcycle crashes: four top causes.

[mattian]

I found this video on youtube. apologies if its a re-post.

Its a news item from the UK but, I think these common causes of why motorcyclists crash are also applicable to us in NZ.

If you have any other scenarios that haven't been covered perhaps you could share it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBjUuKuPyo&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

[dipshit]

They could always run a TV campaign... "Look out for 'shit for brains' motorcyclists"

Another common factor it appears, are riders stopping off at the pubs for a few cold ones while on their rides. I think it was 25% of motorcycle crashes in NZ - the rider had alcohol in their system.

(edit; i just looked it up... it is 23%)

[Virago]

They could always run a TV campaign... "Look out for 'shit for brains' motorcyclists"...


...The trouble is a lot of motorcyclists have shit for brains.


Like i said... a lot of motorcyclists have shit for brains.


A lot of motorcyclists have shit for brains.


A lot of motorcyclists have shit for brains.


A lot of motorcyclists have shit for brains.


...just proves that your average motorcyclist is as dumb as fuck.


...Are all motorcyclists as thick as pig shit..???

Perhaps we could have a whip-round to buy you a new record? This one seems to be broken...

[dipshit]

Perhaps we could have a whip-round to buy you a new record? This one seems to be broken...

If the shoe fits...

[R6_kid]

If the shoe fits...

Then Dipshit is Cinderella... don't be late home!!!

[McJim]

This is important. It's how I was raised in terms of road use and is why I experience culture shock on a regular basis when dealing with New Zealand road users.

UK logic. Bigger vehicles look out for the smaller vehicles.

NZ Logic....look out for yourself.

I look out for bicycles and pedestrians. Most others think they are the only ones entitled to a piece of road.

[terbang]

Perhaps we could have a whip-round to buy you a new record? This one seems to be broken...

Hah, when you look at it that way, he's a constructive one isn't he...

[Marmoot]

At which time I'd like to point out it has been proven scientifically that repeated trolling does NOT make your penis any larger, longer or harder.

Also, any illusionary feeling is non lasting.

[smoky]

"Look out for 'shit for brains' motorcyclists"

Don't tar us with the same brush as yourself

[R-Soul]

They could always run a TV campaign... "Look out for 'shit for brains' motorcyclists"

Another common factor it appears, are riders stopping off at the pubs for a few cold ones while on their rides. I think it was 25% of motorcycle crashes in NZ - the rider had alcohol in their system.

(edit; i just looked it up... it is 23%)

Although its difficult to argue the numbers.... :whistle:

The ACC website kicked up that alcohol, drugs or speed was involved in 50% of bike accidents (although to be fair they did not mention if this would be called an alcohol related "bike accident" if the car driver was drunk and he wrote off a bike).

And about 39% of crashes with ONLY a bike was because of the rider losing control. ALL BY HIMSELF. and probably hitting barriers, trees etc. This despite having regular track days availableto them.

I'll say it again for Dipshit - bike riders have shit for brains. Its like they say in that AC/DC song "Hey stupid- you ain't living in a video".

The only way to cut it down is to make ACC levies higher on a sliding scale for people with alcohol or speeding offences (for both cars and bikes). And have a zero limit for alcohol on bikes. Somebody had to say - its just dumb having ANY alcohol and then getting onto a 180 hp machine full of false bravado, bad judgment and slow thinking. Like riding it sober is not enough of a risk.


This would have the additional benefit of maybe decreasing the injuries, and not just making us pay more for them. And us responsible ones, who dont ride anywhere close to the limits during everyday commuting, would be able to continue to afford our daily transport....

:scooter:

[NighthawkNZ]

And have a zero limit for alcohol on bikes



Why just bikes... personally zero alcohol limit for all vehicles...

[The Stranger]

And about 39% of crashes with ONLY a bike was because of the rider losing control. ALL BY HIMSELF. and probably hitting barriers, trees etc. This despite having regular track days availableto them.

I'll say it again for Dipshit - bike riders have shit for brains.



Proof positve that you at least have shit for brains, ergo some riders do have shit for brains

What percentage of bike only crashes were you expecting would be rider losing control?

YOU FUCKEN STUPID IDIOT!

[mud boy]

damn:pinch:

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Hey Mattian, have you thought of sending the youtube clip to ACC/ Nikc Smith as a suggestion of what the ACC money should be spent on (prevention rather than payouts)?

Your thread seems to have been hijacked by people who like saying dipshit.

[mattian]

Hey Mattian, have you thought of sending the youtube clip to ACC/ Nikc Smith as a suggestion of what the ACC money should be spent on (prevention rather than payouts)?

Your thread seems to have been hijacked by people who like saying dipshit.

Thankyou for making a constructive contribution to the discussion ! its a bloody good idea.
Won't hold my breath waiting for a reply though.

[fireball]

that was a good clip... it wasn't placing blame on bikers or cagers or pointing fingers.. just stating the obvious that somehow we forget or dont think about.

[98tls]

Although its difficult to argue the numbers.... :whistle:

The ACC website kicked up that alcohol, drugs or speed was involved in 50% of bike accidents (although to be fair they did not mention if this would be called an alcohol related "bike accident" if the car driver was drunk and he wrote off a bike).

And about 39% of crashes with ONLY a bike was because of the rider losing control. ALL BY HIMSELF. and probably hitting barriers, trees etc. This despite having regular track days availableto them.

I'll say it again for Dipshit - bike riders have shit for brains. Its like they say in that AC/DC song "Hey stupid- you ain't living in a video".

The only way to cut it down is to make ACC levies higher on a sliding scale for people with alcohol or speeding offences (for both cars and bikes). And have a zero limit for alcohol on bikes. Somebody had to say - its just dumb having ANY alcohol and then getting onto a 180 hp machine full of false bravado, bad judgment and slow thinking. Like riding it sober is not enough of a risk.


This would have the additional benefit of maybe decreasing the injuries, and not just making us pay more for them. And us responsible ones, who dont ride anywhere close to the limits during everyday commuting, would be able to continue to afford our daily transport....

:scooter: All well n good,then again wheres the limit making people V where,when they ride,not living in a city nor commuting on my bike/bikes does that mean i pay less than city dwellers that do?As for responsible you havent it seems been riding long enough to work out that being responsible has nothing to do with being knocked off your bike.Your comment on a sliding scale i find laughable,as i posted i dont live in a city and i dont commute on a bike surrounded by thousands of other road users,you do by choice so methinks by your sliding scale then pay up big time compared to myself:wacko:Nope doesnt work.

[R-Soul]

All well n good,then again wheres the limit making people V where,when they ride,not living in a city nor commuting on my bike/bikes does that mean i pay less than city dwellers that do?As for responsible you havent it seems been riding long enough to work out that being responsible has nothing to do with being knocked off your bike.Your comment on a sliding scale i find laughable,as i posted i dont live in a city and i dont commute on a bike surrounded by thousands of other road users,you do by choice so methinks by your sliding scale then pay up big time compared to myself:wacko:Nope doesnt work.

I was not talking about sliding sclle for distance from cities- I was talking about sliding scale depending on the number of alcohol or speed related offences you have had in teh last year - maybe related to points.

It is obviously in the country's interests to encourage more bikes to be on the road (especialy for commuting) because of:
- Less fuel usage and therefor less fuel imports
- less damage to roads
- less cost of vehicle imports
- less congestion and increased time to plan ahead for congestion of 2020
- more parking availability
- less pollution and the whole tree hugger thing

I was merely suggesting that the ACC identify and target the right groupings for increased payouts - (speeders and drunk drivers) vs responsible riders. Not cars v bikes, since the main fault is not the bikes. But speed, alcohol and drugs clearly are at fault from their website.

At least targetting these grous will acount for a large majority fo accidents and may even help in reducing them. which is the REAL point, isn't it?

[R-Soul]

As for responsible you havent it seems been riding long enough to work out that being responsible has nothing to do with being knocked off your bike.

It seems that you know sweet F@#$ all about who I am and how long I have been riding. And it also occurs to me that there are a hell of a lot of riders out there who have been riding for a long time and still just dont get it - even after major accidents. Perhaps experience is not related to street smarts?

For example, I have been riding long enough to know that riding responsibly has a hell of a lot to do with LOSING CONTROL OF YOUR BIKE - one of the main injury causes on the ACC website. Another constructive suggestion would be compulsory advanced rider training yearly to reduce ACC levies.

I see from the website that there are three main reasons for accidents
- alcohol, drugs and speeding (car or bikes)
- riders losing control
- intersection accidents (which I presume relate to lack of visibility and riders doing irresponsible things at intersections such as filtering at speed, or passing at high speed when cars turn right etc.)

I am suggesting CONSTSRUCTIVE ideas to reduce the injuries related to these three. I would rather be subject to increased rules on riding than increased cash levies as not commuting by bike is not an option for me.

Vsibility has a lot to do with being knocked off your bike - and if you look at my other posts, you will see I have argued for compulsory high vis vests - at least in rush hour taffic.

Anther possible suggestion is small thin bike lanes in addition to car lanes (especially on motorways as for some stupid reason bus lanes aren't available to bikers on motorways). Alternately make the motorway buslanes available to bikers to prevent the high speed lane splitting. Hafving clerly marked bike lanes may encourage increased use of bikes, and remind cars to check those lanes before turning across them.

If you have anything constructive to add, please feel free, but if you just want to slag offmy ideas without offering alternatives, then dont bother.

[R-Soul]

Proof positve that you at least have shit for brains, ergo some riders do have shit for brains

What percentage of bike only crashes were you expecting would be rider losing control?

YOU FUCKEN STUPID IDIOT!

I dont appreciate your language. I was referreing to the percentage that were due to crappy road conditions, bad weather, poor bike maintenace, dogs and other animals, landslides, fallen trees in the roads, and so on....

At this point I would be tempted to call you an unimaginative C@#$T in retaliation, but I have to admit the figure I gave of 39% seemed a little low... so I checked them again (I looked at the figures a long time ago before I wrote this.)

See this website :
http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet.pdf

The percentage of single vehicle accidents that were due to the rider losing control was closer to 90%. Which strengthens my original point. These "rider losing control "crashes make up 26% of all motorcyclist accidents. Other single vehicle bike accidents not due to any fault of the rider was 3%.


Other vehicles were at fault in 39% (probably where I got my original figure from) of all bike crashes.

Bikers were at fault or partially at fault in 58% of all bike crashes.


The main critical crash movements are:
- vehicle turning across path of bike- 13% (i.e visibility problems)
- Losing control turning right - 12% (i.e speed too high)
- losing control turning left -8% (i.e. speed too high)
- vehicle crossing path of bike- 10% (i.e. visibility problems)


The pie chart on page 5 says a lot about alcohol and speed. 45% of all fatal bike crashes involved these. Probably more if you look at all bike crashes.

BUT the information on this site shows how specific causes can be targetted to reduce the injuries, rather than just slap us with a charge after the fact.

So why not train motorcyclists more and implement rules to help target these causes? Such as penalising riders for riding irresponsibly with higher levies on a sliding scale. The levies should be paid on a persons license to prevent multiple vehicle owners paying ridiculous total amounts. The more points on the license due to alcohol/drugs and speed, the more ACC levies to pay. And reduced levies if you can show that you attended rider triaining regularly.

Actually this type of targetting should be done for cars too - it might help the boy racers control vehicles better, and stop pissed drivers turning in front of us.

[vifferman]

- Losing control turning right - 12% (i.e speed too high)
- losing control turning left -8% (i.e. speed too high)

I suspect many/most of the "speed too high" category (i.e., where the rider failed to make the turn) were deemed as such, when rider inexperience or poor skills were the culprit. That is, the rider thought he/she was going too fast for the corner, target fixated, and crashed.

The thing to remember with stats too is that the rider is more likely to not accept personal responsbility (as that is the plague of the times), so will blame other factors or people. The police on the other hand, will tend to lean towards a simplistic solution such as excessive speed. Stats may give some indication, but by and large they're nonsense.

[RavenR44]

I suspect many/most of the "speed too high" category (i.e., where the rider failed to make the turn) were deemed as such, when rider inexperience or poor skills were the culprit. That is, the rider thought he/she was going too fast for the corner, target fixated, and crashed.

The thing to remember with stats too is that the rider is more likely to not accept personal responsbility (as that is the plague of the times), so will blame other factors or people. The police on the other hand, will tend to lean towards a simplistic solution such as excessive speed. Stats may give some indication, but by and large they're nonsense.

I agree. Brain fade is probably underrepresented in the single vehicle 'causes' column, easily lumped into the 'too fast' pile for the sake of bureaucratic convenience. Especially when the rider didn't survive to put the record straight.

Visibility I think is a bit of a day-glo herring as well. You see it every trip you make, some driver or rider muddling along thinking about everything else but the actual driving, and other road users taking evasive action to compensate. The complete lack of situational awareness and simple attention to the task of piloting a motorised conveyance is truly astonishing. I think New Zealand, and particularly Auckland, drivers are second only to Italians in that regrettable regard.

The fact is that you have to assume that every other road user is a complete incompetent, living in some distracted funk or other, and totally irresponsible to boot. Then you will at least be on eternal vigil for the subtle signs that presage some manoeuvre likely to cause you grievous bodily harm.

I wish I could suggest training to overcome that lack of awareness/attention but frankly, I doubt it would stick. The average (and I use that term with some irony) road user is more than happy in their motorised complacency.

:wacko:

[quickbuck]

I suspect many/most of the "speed too high" category (i.e., where the rider failed to make the turn) were deemed as such, when rider inexperience or poor skills were the culprit. That is, the rider thought he/she was going too fast for the corner, target fixated, and crashed.


Yup.
A lack of education/ experience... and I don't mean years in the seat either.
Even people who have ridden for many years fail to realise that their machine will actually corner a lot better if they didn't button off because they thought they were going to quick through a bend/ corner... or even over a bump while cranked over!

[Cynos]

If the shoe fits...

I'm inclined to agree that there are, indeed, numerous riders with brains better fit for fertilising my roses. I'm thinking of the people I see riding in close formation at 110km/h on the highway on their brand new cruisers, wives riding pillion, naturally.

[Macontour]

I have just found an interesting website. It is www.Ride2die.com. It has some statistics but also many photos that would help to emphasise

[kewwig]

This one always make me cringe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svtmDO0uN1M

[JohnC]

This is important. It's how I was raised in terms of road use and is why I experience culture shock on a regular basis when dealing with New Zealand road users.

UK logic. Bigger vehicles look out for the smaller vehicles.

NZ Logic....look out for yourself.

I look out for bicycles and pedestrians. Most others think they are the only ones entitled to a piece of road.

Ever heard of 'air travel" ??
My time in the UK tells me you went to a "very" exclusive school of road manners,,,one most of your country men seem to have missed out on.