Service interval on an Ohlins rear shock

[lukemillar]

Robert Taylor, looking in your direction...

How often does a Ohlins rear shock need servicing? Is it based on mileage or time?

It's a TR-602 for a Daytona 675.

Thanks
Luke

[steelestring]

Robert Taylor, looking in your direction...

How often does a Ohlins rear shock need servicing? Is it based on mileage or time?

It's a TR-602 for a Daytona 675.

Thanks
Luke

It would be great to actually know this dude! I await some actual facts soon too *eagerly awaits*
I thought it was some crazy number... hmmmm :pinch:... like every 2 thousand on track and 7 thousand on road (these are broken wrong and I know it!!!)
Why is it that road shocks do not need servicing more?.... having huge bumps and all you would have thought a smoother race track would be nicer on them eh?

[Zuki lover]

It would be great to actually know this dude! I await some actual facts soon too *eagerly awaits*
I thought it was some crazy number... hmmmm :pinch:... like every 2 thousand on track and 7 thousand on road (these are broken wrong and I know it!!!)
Why is it that road shocks do not need servicing more?.... having huge bumps and all you would have thought a smoother race track would be nicer on them eh?

I would like to no this one to....

[Robert Taylor]

Robert Taylor, looking in your direction...

How often does a Ohlins rear shock need servicing? Is it based on mileage or time?

It's a TR-602 for a Daytona 675.

Thanks
Luke

Up to 40000 kilometres, ideally for best performance every 20000 ks. MUST be serviced by an approved and FACTORY TRAINED Ohlins dealer, not those who say ''I can do it, its easy'' In Wellington Pat McClachlan at Motomart, no-one else in Wellington has the training or is privy to constant and ongoing factory updates, Pat has been trained by a Swedish engineer we had out here.

[GSVR]

Up to 40000 kilometres, ideally for best performance every 20000 ks. MUST be serviced by an approved and FACTORY TRAINED Ohlins dealer, not those who say ''I can do it, its easy'' In Wellington Pat McClachlan at Motomart, no-one else in Wellington has the training or is privy to constant and ongoing factory updates, Pat has been trained by a Swedish engineer we had out here.

Wow thats an aweful lot of tracktime!

I'd say they also need servicing when they fail the visual inspection. eg. Oil leaking out around shaft seal etc.

Also when the fail the jump up and down on test. eg. don't appear to be providing correct damping etc.

You'd think rear shocks would need far more servicing than forks but I suppose forks are subjected to all sorts of side loadings and exposed to the weather and grit more.

[R6_kid]

MUST be serviced by an approved and FACTORY TRAINED Ohlins dealer, not those who say ''I can do it, its easy''

Is there anyone in Auckland? I noticed that Cyclespot Honda have a stand with Ohlins gear on it - can't remember if I saw the CKT logo or not :pinch:

[AllanB]

Pretty sure I saw a DIY rebuild kit on special in The Warehouse's latest brochure :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


40,000 is pretty impressive - most stock shocks would be toast by then :crybaby:

Still waiting for my lotto numbers to come in .... how come the shit you really want is never on no deposit, no interest and a zillion years to pay?

[R6_kid]

40,000 is pretty impressive - most stock shocks would be toast by then :crybaby:

It's from Sweden so it has to be good. I drive a Volvo and I have Ohlins in my bike :woohoo:

[Robert Taylor]

Is there anyone in Auckland? I noticed that Cyclespot Honda have a stand with Ohlins gear on it - can't remember if I saw the CKT logo or not :pinch:

Thats a work in progress. I will be up there for a couple of days each month ( commencing this Thursday ) to do prearranged work and do training.

[Gremlin]

Botany Honda are well versed in dealing with Dr Rob :whistle:

They are now well drilled in either receiving shocks from him and fitting, or removing them and sending them down for service. Hornet's was pulled out after about 50,000km (could definitely feel it needed a service) and a heavier one put in (which arrived juuuust in time for service).

Zapf has his original shock (was in mine) on his Hornet now, back to the Ohlins loving :woohoo:

[lukemillar]

Up to 40000 kilometres, ideally for best performance every 20000 ks. MUST be serviced by an approved and FACTORY TRAINED Ohlins dealer, not those who say ''I can do it, its easy'' In Wellington Pat McClachlan at Motomart, no-one else in Wellington has the training or is privy to constant and ongoing factory updates, Pat has been trained by a Swedish engineer we had out here.

Thanks :) Couple more questions...

Does it matter what kind of km's? i.e track vs road etc. Also, does it make a difference between aftermarket replacement Ohlins and Ohlins that came OE with the bike?

Cheers
Luke

[lukemillar]

It's from Sweden so it has to be good. I drive a Volvo and I have Ohlins in my bike :woohoo:

Same with Swedish chicks! Have you ever seen an ugly one? ;)

[Shaun]

Thanks :) Couple more questions...

Does it matter what kind of km's? i.e track vs road etc. Also, do it make a difference between aftermarket replacement Ohlins and Ohlins that came OE with the bike?

Cheers
Luke


Robert is away today mate, but am sure he will reply in time.

[_STAIN_]

I'm sure there is another Suspension Tech living in the Wgtn area and is known for his modest prices.
He's is at most race meetings and have even seen him at track days too, drives a white truck.
Can't think of his name at present but some of the race guy's on here will tell you.
Seems to be an ever increasing number of bikes in the pits carrying his logo, must be doing good work.





How often does a Ohlins rear shock need servicing? Is it based on mileage or time?

It's a TR-602 for a Daytona 675.

Thanks
Luke

[Shaun]

I'm sure there is another Suspension Tech living in the Wgtn area and is known for his modest prices.
He's is at most race meetings and have even seen him at track days too, drives a white truck.
Can't think of his name at present but some of the race guy's on here will tell you.
Seems to be an ever increasing number of bikes in the pits carrying his logo, must be doing good work.



He is there "KerryD" and there are other people about that tinker with stuff, but only a few are trained by Ohlin's tech people and are dealers of that product

[_STAIN_]

so what is so great about ohlins trained for servicing as opposed to say Race Tech trained ?
Like good mechanic's working across many brands, suspension work is no different once you understand the inner working's.
Maybe you need to buy or make the odd special tool but suspension tech's I have previously used in Rotorua and Auckland are well versed across all brands. The tinker's as you call them are the ones the often vastly improve our standard suspension and often fix inherent flaws like found in stock ducati/ohlins suspension.


He is there "KerryD" and there are other people about that tinker with stuff, but only a few are trained by Ohlin's tech people and are dealers of that product

[White trash]

so what is so great about ohlins trained for servicing as opposed to say Race Tech trained ?
Like good mechanic's working across many brands, suspension work is no different once you understand the inner working's.
Maybe you need to buy or make the odd special tool but suspension tech's I have previously used in Rotorua and Auckland are well versed across all brands. The tinker's as you call them are the ones the often vastly improve our standard suspension and often fix inherent flaws like found in stock ducati/ohlins suspension.
Or, tell blatant lies about what they've seen, done and acheived.

Not saying your post is wrong, however the particular person being mentioned is not renowned for his truthfulness. That's all I'm saying.

[Pussy]

Or, tell blatant lies about what they've seen, done and acheived.

Not saying your post is wrong, however the particular person being mentioned is not renowned for his truthfulness. That's all I'm saying.

If bullshit was music, that particular person would be a symphony orchestra!

[GSVR]

Ohlins has the monopoly of the top end suspension market in NZ. Its not the best senario for the consumer as without any real competition prices can be set at what the market can stand rather than how little the manufacturer can make and still stay in bussiness.

Aren't we lucky to have so many oil companys or petrol would be the same way. Or more internet providers than just Telecom. etc etc etc.

I think the reason theres so few suspension techs about is they mostly work for free at the track right?. Or is it they can't make the regular trips to Sweden to gain a respectable level of competence.

[White trash]

Ohlins has the monopoly of the top end suspension market in NZ. Its not the best senario for the consumer as without any real competition prices can be set at what the market can stand rather than how little the manufacturer can make and still stay in bussiness.

Aren't we lucky to have so many oil companys or petrol would be the same way. Or more internet providers than just Telecom. etc etc etc.

I think the reason theres so few suspension techs about is they mostly work for free at the track right?. Or is it they can't make the regular trips to Sweden to gain a respectable level of competence.
Not really G. I believe that if the three other top level brands were promoted to the level that Ohlins has been in NZ, there's no reason why they couldn't be as strong. From what I've seen, the importers of other brands have run it as a sideline to their normal business, where as the good Doctor focuses on only suspension.

I for one would LOVE to see someone take the WP brand and try to build it to a level as what CKT is now at, offering the same level of trackside support. It would add one more factor to the outcome of the racing here. Be nice if the tyre importers put themselves forward also.

[Shaun]

Ohlins has the monopoly of the top end suspension market in NZ. Its not the best senario for the consumer as without any real competition prices can be set at what the market can stand rather than how little the manufacturer can make and still stay in bussiness.

Aren't we lucky to have so many oil companys or petrol would be the same way. Or more internet providers than just Telecom. etc etc etc.

I think the reason theres so few suspension techs about is they mostly work for free at the track right?. Or is it they can't make the regular trips to Sweden to gain a respectable level of competence.




There are PARTS fitters, and then there are techs!

I would regually recieve phone calls at 10 at night from Robert, to discuss an idea he had, or to discuss some thing he had discovered through his Internationall contacts, and his Shock Dyno machine.

When I was working very close with Robert when I was racing seriously, the work he went through to try and give me better product was outstanding!!!! He is as passinate about suspension, as I was about riding.

Pricing etc

20 years of suspension fine tuning and development

Dyno machines

Spare parts in stock

Phone calls to awnser

Emails to respond to

PM messages

Text messages

Premisses and staff wages to pay for

and on and on the COST of being the front man for a top quality product goes on and on

O YEA, time and petrol to get to the track with staff wages to pay! and the exspense of the mobile work shop

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Spent NOT MADE!

[AllanB]

Not really G. I believe that if the three other top level brands were promoted to the level that Ohlins has been in NZ, there's no reason why they couldn't be as strong. From what I've seen, the importers of other brands have run it as a sideline to their normal business, where as the good Doctor focuses on only suspension.

Very interesting comment and certainly food for thought.

I understand that Robert takes the time to setup each shock for the rider and NZ roads as a 'value added extra' in NZ.
As a exercise I'd be interested to see the difference between a USA Internet purchased big O and a Robert setup one on the same bike.
If anyone is prepared to finance my experiment feel free to PM me :2thumbsup

I think ACC should subsidize the cost of Ohlins suspension in NZ - surely this would help reduce the motorcycle accidents! ;)

[Robert Taylor]

so what is so great about ohlins trained for servicing as opposed to say Race Tech trained ?
Like good mechanic's working across many brands, suspension work is no different once you understand the inner working's.
Maybe you need to buy or make the odd special tool but suspension tech's I have previously used in Rotorua and Auckland are well versed across all brands. The tinker's as you call them are the ones the often vastly improve our standard suspension and often fix inherent flaws like found in stock ducati/ohlins suspension.

Race Tech training is several steps removed from proper Ohlins factory training. Are Race Tech privy to the very latest Ohlins updates and training information etc? Get real.

Is a non Ohlins accredited suspension fiddler going to be first in line for those latest updates and more privileged information? Get real

Are these guys well versed across all brands? Get real.

Am I the Ohlins distributor just as versed in ( for example ) WP? Get real

Inherent flaws or setting changes to mostly allow for our road conditions? Get real

[Robert Taylor]

Not really G. I believe that if the three other top level brands were promoted to the level that Ohlins has been in NZ, there's no reason why they couldn't be as strong. From what I've seen, the importers of other brands have run it as a sideline to their normal business, where as the good Doctor focuses on only suspension.

I for one would LOVE to see someone take the WP brand and try to build it to a level as what CKT is now at, offering the same level of trackside support. It would add one more factor to the outcome of the racing here. Be nice if the tyre importers put themselves forward also.

Dont hold your breath Jimmy. WP is a great product but I think the pressure of oem production for KTM is keeping them very preoccupied. They are unable to supply stock when you want it due in part to that.

[Robert Taylor]

Ohlins has the monopoly of the top end suspension market in NZ. Its not the best senario for the consumer as without any real competition prices can be set at what the market can stand rather than how little the manufacturer can make and still stay in bussiness.

Aren't we lucky to have so many oil companys or petrol would be the same way. Or more internet providers than just Telecom. etc etc etc.

I think the reason theres so few suspension techs about is they mostly work for free at the track right?. Or is it they can't make the regular trips to Sweden to gain a respectable level of competence.

Well Gary you dont understand the cost of business so well. There is a difference between making a living and making a killing. I fit into the former category, just. If I wasnt so helpful and free with information maybe Id turn a reasonable profit.

[lukemillar]

Up to 40000 kilometres, ideally for best performance every 20000 ks. MUST be serviced by an approved and FACTORY TRAINED Ohlins dealer, not those who say ''I can do it, its easy'' In Wellington Pat McClachlan at Motomart, no-one else in Wellington has the training or is privy to constant and ongoing factory updates, Pat has been trained by a Swedish engineer we had out here.


Thanks :) Couple more questions...

Does it matter what kind of km's? i.e track vs road etc. Also, does it make a difference between aftermarket replacement Ohlins and Ohlins that came OE with the bike?

Cheers
Luke


Just wanna bump this, so it doesn't get lost.

I have an OE Ohlins in my Gas Gas. Thing is - that bike will probably fall apart before hitting 20k let alone 40k! Has about 350 hours enduro/trail riding on the shock which is ~6 years old.

I have an aftermarket on the Triumph. Given the infomation above, I think this one is a while off needing as service.:cool:

Cheers
Luke

[cs363]

If bullshit was music, that particular person would be a symphony orchestra!

I've heard he's a bit of a drinker.....

[cs363]

Back to the subject matter, I have Ohlins shocks on both of my bikes and I can attest to the fact that the CKT/RT fettled product is a big advancement on the out-of-the-box product.
Best of all is Roberts after sales service, he is quite happy to fine tune the product (usually at no further cost) until the customer is 100% happy with the result.
You might be able to buy 'the product' cheaply off the interweb, but that kind of service and follow up is worth it's weight in gold IMO.

[GSVR]

Well Gary you dont understand the cost of business so well. There is a difference between making a living and making a killing. I fit into the former category, just. If I wasnt so helpful and free with information maybe Id turn a reasonable profit.

I think you and Shaun have read at that post the wrong way. It was about the Ohlins brand and the fact they are percieved as being the best money can buy then the company can sell the product at premium prices.

As for whos got the knowledge of how to tune modern race suspension I'd say Red Fenton must have huge experience but he isn't doing it for a living.

The guy with the best resources and contacts I can think of in NZ would have to be you. But if you charged $50 and hour with a minium of 1/2 hour increments for labour at the track (not an unreasonable rate) you would be garanteed to have plenty of spare time on your hands. Or are your paying customers subsidising the ones you help for free!

Is the after sales service actually free or is it already incorporated into the initial cost of the shock?

I thought Ohlins had a minimum retail price policy. Not RRP.
http://www.ema-usa.com/suspension/suspension_ohlins.shtml
http://www.hardracing.com/Shocks%20&%20steering%20Damp/Ohlins.htm
Unfortunately, as of Jan. 2008 Ohlins has gone to MAP Pricing.
That means, ALL CERTIFIED OHLINS DEALERS, MUST show Retail Pricing.
If they are NOT Showing Retail pricing, then they probably are Not a CERTIFIED Ohlins Dealer.
Or, they can No Longer purchase Ohlins Products. Those are the Rules.
BUT, the Good news is, this is the U.S.A. where you can SELL it for a Fair SALE PRICE.

Why did Ohlins do this?

Ultimately the market sets the cost to the consumer.

[Robert Taylor]

Just wanna bump this, so it doesn't get lost.

I have an OE Ohlins in my Gas Gas. Thing is - that bike will probably fall apart before hitting 20k let alone 40k! Has about 350 hours enduro/trail riding on the shock which is ~6 years old.

I have an aftermarket on the Triumph. Given the infomation above, I think this one is a while off needing as service.:cool:

Cheers
Luke

Just to clarify further I had only answered with respect to road bikes, not so much race or offroad.

Offroad interval 20 hours and ceratinly no more than 30

[Robert Taylor]

I think you and Shaun have read at that post the wrong way. It was about the Ohlins brand and the fact they are percieved as being the best money can buy then the company can sell the product at premium prices.

As for whos got the knowledge of how to tune modern race suspension I'd say Red Fenton must have huge experience but he isn't doing it for a living.

The guy with the best resources and contacts I can think of in NZ would have to be you. But if you charged $50 and hour with a minium of 1/2 hour increments for labour at the track (not an unreasonable rate) you would be garanteed to have plenty of spare time on your hands. Or are your paying customers subsidising the ones you help for free!

Is the after sales service actually free or is it already incorporated into the initial cost of the shock?

I thought Ohlins had a minimum retail price policy. Not RRP.
http://www.ema-usa.com/suspension/suspension_ohlins.shtml
http://www.hardracing.com/Shocks%20&%20steering%20Damp/Ohlins.htm
Unfortunately, as of Jan. 2008 Ohlins has gone to MAP Pricing.
That means, ALL CERTIFIED OHLINS DEALERS, MUST show Retail Pricing.
If they are NOT Showing Retail pricing, then they probably are Not a CERTIFIED Ohlins Dealer.
Or, they can No Longer purchase Ohlins Products. Those are the Rules.
BUT, the Good news is, this is the U.S.A. where you can SELL it for a Fair SALE PRICE.

Why did Ohlins do this?

Ultimately the market sets the cost to the consumer.

If you looked at Ohlins gross profit per annum youd ask wha do they put so much effort in for so little return. 7%

Red runs his team ( Robbie Bugden, James Smith ) We ( CKT ) are responsible for doing internal setting changes to the suspension units that we supply to that team, invoiced to Suzuki NZ. Whilst Red is starting to look after some of our interests in the South Island we will still be looking after Robbies and James suspension when called upon.

My paying customers are by no means subsidising free assistance to others. Over the winter months we have done a lot of development work with the Blue Wing Honda racebikes and now with Strouds new K9. Neither BWH or SNZ are invoiced for our time, only any parts used. And we have helped a lot of people besides, who have asked.

We have service contracts for some of the distributor riders during the Nationals, it barely covers costs.

If then it is percieved that our product prices subsidise subsequent setup then our prices are much too low.

Ohlins instituting that policy is a first step in combating internet resellers who have no respect for appointed territories and the cost in infrastructure that each distributor has. There are to be further measures. It doesnt help that the US Ohlins distributor can purchase product in $US giving better insulation against currency fluctuation. It also dosent help that the $NZ is currently so strong, in the end event its no good for exporters and NZ business, the 2 biggest contributors to the welfare of our country. Its time more of us put the overall wellbeing of the country above self interest., and I make no aplogy for saying that.

[Robert Taylor]

Very interesting comment and certainly food for thought.

I understand that Robert takes the time to setup each shock for the rider and NZ roads as a 'value added extra' in NZ.
As a exercise I'd be interested to see the difference between a USA Internet purchased big O and a Robert setup one on the same bike.
If anyone is prepared to finance my experiment feel free to PM me :2thumbsup

I think ACC should subsidize the cost of Ohlins suspension in NZ - surely this would help reduce the motorcycle accidents! ;)

This has actually been proven time and time again. I can well remember a guy buying an R6 shock off a US parasite and he was burning up tyres because it was neither sprung or valved for our conditions. If he had bought it off me and that was occuring I would have reset it foc. That shock did come to me and he paid the going rate. Did he save money or get a loyalty discount? No. Did he have his cake and eat it too? No!

We struggled a bit with initial setup of SV650 rear shocks because they were only ever intended as a commuter bike. But we worked and worked at it and now have a very good internal and external upgrade spec that we automatically instal into each one we sell.

When you crash on the road with good suspension it is usually at a higher speed!

[GSVR]

If you looked at Ohlins gross profit per annum youd ask wha do they put so much effort in for so little return. 7%


All I can say is they must not have very good accountants as if they did they would report a huge loss every year and get the government to inject large sums of tax payers money to keep them afloat.

Thanks for the reply Robert.

[Robert Taylor]

All I can say is they must not have very good accountants as if they did they would report a huge loss every year and get the government to inject large sums of tax payers money to keep them afloat.

Thanks for the reply Robert.

I think the system in Scandinavia may be more transparent, but Im only guessing. FYI Elka are propped up by the Canadian Government.
Im all for people at all levels of society not milking the system.

[johan]

All I can say is they must not have very good accountants as if they did they would report a huge loss every year and get the government to inject large sums of tax payers money to keep them afloat.

Thanks for the reply Robert.

Good luck getting money from the Swedish government, unless you're building fighter jets.

[Robert Taylor]

Good luck getting money from the Swedish government, unless you're building fighter jets.

Fighter jets are cool Johan! At least they have those in Sweden.

[Viscount Montgomery]

It's only nuts and bolts for krissakes, any mug can service shocks. All motorcycle shocks are the bloody same inside and they're all made from pretty much the same materials.

Don't be conned by the experts, these are the same people who orchestrated the moon landings and convinced us of global warming. They're also withholding important evidence that proves without doubt that the motorcycle racer Valentino Rossi is and always has been, a robot clone.

It's a well-known fact amongst us in the know that ohlins shocks are re-badged hagon shocks with many of their internal and external parts cunningly stenciled with 'swedish steel' lettering.

The more expensive models actually have the lettering professionally stamped into the metal to complete the illusion of 'high-quality' without arousing suspicion.

At home you can easily service these shocks yourself. Equipment needed is a vice, a packet of large ball-bearings, a fine-toothed hacksaw blade(shortened) 3 litres of water, 3 teaspoons of used baking soda, a rubber mallet, an axe-head, vaseline, two 155mm lengths of 10mm threaded rod, 2 large planks, a roll of black and yellow flecked sewing cotton, a vernier caliper and a red and white one-tonne car-jack.

If any of you have trouble finding this equipment, you can alternatively send your shocks directly to me as I am currently running a complete ohlins shock re-build service operating off-shore. Why waste good money in NZ? We can accommodate any other brand of shock as well.

I have good contacts in China and Calcutta, and can promise you some very good value for money. We also have some very good replacement components forged from large pieces of Air-India wreckage professionally dredged from the Ganges under strict supervision that ensures top quality control.

Our workshop operates outdoors, saving you, the customer, even more money. Roofing has always been an over-rated part of the building code, but we do have a large collection of tarpaulins in use during the rainy season.

Rusting of some components is always inevitable if the rainy season is a particularly long one, but hey, rust isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway. And we try our best to replace steel components with brass or copper for increased corrosion protection if we can.

Currently materials are in short supply, but that could change at any time. We have been waiting on the next Air-India mishap, but we have agents keeping a close eye on Air Pakistan and the Chinese rail system and it's likely not long before a good influx of materials becomes available again.

Yours faithfully, Viscount Montgomerys ohlins shock re-building enterprises inc.

[Robert Taylor]

It's only nuts and bolts for krissakes, any mug can service shocks. All motorcycle shocks are the bloody same inside and they're all made from pretty much the same materials.

Don't be conned by the experts, these are the same people who orchestrated the moon landings and convinced us of global warming. They're also withholding important evidence that proves without doubt that the motorcycle racer Valentino Rossi is and always has been, a robot clone.

It's a well-known fact amongst us in the know that ohlins shocks are re-badged hagon shocks with many of their internal and external parts cunningly stenciled with 'swedish steel' lettering.

The more expensive models actually have the lettering professionally stamped into the metal to complete the illusion of 'high-quality' without arousing suspicion.

At home you can easily service these shocks yourself. Equipment needed is a vice, a packet of large ball-bearings, a fine-toothed hacksaw blade(shortened) 3 litres of water, 3 teaspoons of used baking soda, a rubber mallet, an axe-head, vaseline, two 155mm lengths of 10mm threaded rod, 2 large planks, a roll of black and yellow flecked sewing cotton, a vernier caliper and a red and white one-tonne car-jack.

If any of you have trouble finding this equipment, you can alternatively send your shocks directly to me as I am currently running a complete ohlins shock re-build service operating off-shore. Why waste good money in NZ? We can accommodate any other brand of shock as well.

I have good contacts in China and Calcutta, and can promise you some very good value for money. We also have some very good replacement components forged from large pieces of Air-India wreckage professionally dredged from the Ganges under strict supervision that ensures top quality control.

Our workshop operates outdoors, saving you, the customer, even more money. Roofing has always been an over-rated part of the building code, but we do have a large collection of tarpaulins in use during the rainy season.

Rusting of some components is always inevitable if the rainy season is a particularly long one, but hey, rust isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway. And we try our best to replace steel components with brass or copper for increased corrosion protection if we can.

Currently materials are in short supply, but that could change at any time. We have been waiting on the next Air-India mishap, but we have agents keeping a close eye on Air Pakistan and the Chinese rail system and it's likely not long before a good influx of materials becomes available again.

Yours faithfully, Viscount Montgomerys ohlins shock re-building enterprises inc.

Heck if you put the same effort into typing a serious rather than flippant post youd be devastating!

[Viscount Montgomery]

We are currently offering great deals on quality fork oil this month. Our used sump oil is some of the best available, and again, we've discovered a reliable supplier from the back-streets of Bombay.

We have pioneered an exciting new used oil filtering technology. The pantyhose extraction method TM. The black oil is strained repeatedly through fine mesh pantyhose and stockings many times, and the final product is often reduced to a much nicer dark chocolate brown colour.

Our pantyhose and stockings are carefully checked beforehand, and any with runs or ladders are discarded immediately, ensuring the minimum of contamination and metal filings.

The contamination and carcinogen levels are often reduced to less than 700,000 ppm. (70%) allowing riders to breathe easily without overly serious health concerns.

Our fork oil packs also include a cleaning kit consisting of two handkercheifs and one medium sized rag. This ensures quick and easy cleaning of the inevitable fork/shock oil seepage all motorcyclists will experience on most rides.

We recommend cleaning twice a day for best results. We do understand that blackish oil stains can sometimes look unsightly. Customer satisfaction is important to us, and no other fork oil package brands contain cleaning kits like ours do.

Our fork oil techs also operate in pyjamas, saving on over-all costs, which you, the customer, can reap benefits from.

Yours faithfully, Viscount Montgomerys ohlins rebuild enterprises inc.

[_STAIN_]

Get Real :) OK

This thread was a request for "service recommendations"

A simple service checking if shock was performing to expectations, strip clean inspect, replace any worn parts and seals. reoil using vacuum bleeder.

A roadbike shock service would rarely include updates or changes unless they were requested




Race Tech training is several steps removed from proper Ohlins factory training. Are Race Tech privy to the very latest Ohlins updates and training information etc? Get real.

Is a non Ohlins accredited suspension fiddler going to be first in line for those latest updates and more privileged information? Get real

We all know some people who know some people... and if asked...
are those "latest updates and more privileged information" actually helping you ?

[_STAIN_]

Are these guys well versed across all brands? Get real.

Am I the Ohlins distributor just as versed in ( for example ) WP? Get real

Who exactly are you referring to as "these guys" ?
Mark P.atterson Rotorua and Norm C.obb Auckland, you don't feel these guy's are well versed in the suspension industry across multiple brands ?

So by your own admission you don't consider yourself competent enough to do a service on a WP, Penske, Elka, or YSS ?

[_STAIN_]

Inherent flaws or setting changes to mostly allow for our road conditions? Get real

Really, do you think bumps are different in Italy ?
To quote someone, maybe you consider this guy just a tinkerer too.

One thing I have found to be fact: Suspension tuners in every country on Earth think there is something special and hard to work with at the tracks in their country, and they convince their local racers of the same. A bump is a bump, a hole is a hole, a crack is a crack. They all exist in tracks all over the world.

I do undertand that your bumps are pointing down from the earth and ours point up here in the States... but your bikes should weigh less, and hit the bumps with less force since you are hangin' off the bottom of the earth... ... seriously, though...

I have worked at racetracks in the USA, Canada, Japan, Austrailia, Qatar, England, France, Italy, and Spain. It's not the black magic it's cracked up to be.

Sincerely,

Max McAllister
President
Traxxion Dynamics, Inc.

[_STAIN_]

We struggled a bit with initial setup of SV650 rear shocks because they were only ever intended as a commuter bike. But we worked and worked at it and now have a very good internal and external upgrade spec that we automatically instal into each one we sell.

SV650's have been extensively raced in the US since 2001, why would you struggle when you have the "latest updates" from ohlins, this would read as though the knowledge sharing pool within ohlins is not working very well. Wonder if calling them parasites is hindering your access to the "real" latest information.

[Robert Taylor]

Who exactly are you referring to as "these guys" ?
Mark P.atterson Rotorua and Norm C.obb Auckland, you don't feel these guy's are well versed in the suspension industry across multiple brands ?

So by your own admission you don't consider yourself competent enough to do a service on a WP, Penske, Elka, or YSS ?

What you little realise is these guys lean on me a lot for service info for the Ohlins brand. The difference being that there is never a hidden agenda with these guys, I trust them.
You misunderstand and twist. Yes we can service those brands but the WP specialist in NZ ( for example ) is Mark Patterson.

[Robert Taylor]

SV650's have been extensively raced in the US since 2001, why would you struggle when you have the "latest updates" from ohlins, this would read as though the knowledge sharing pool within ohlins is not working very well. Wonder if calling them parasites is hindering your access to the "real" latest information.

Again you misunderstand and twist. SV650s are raced in only a few countries and I have never had a request from the States re these or sought info. We share on occurence basis.
Ohlins Sweden do not have update specs for RACING / TRACK DAYS for SV650, as they consider them only a commuter bike.
I was not calling Ohlins parasites, you need a better command of the English language.

[Robert Taylor]

Really, do you think bumps are different in Italy ?
To quote someone, maybe you consider this guy just a tinkerer too.

One thing I have found to be fact: Suspension tuners in every country on Earth think there is something special and hard to work with at the tracks in their country, and they convince their local racers of the same. A bump is a bump, a hole is a hole, a crack is a crack. They all exist in tracks all over the world.

I do undertand that your bumps are pointing down from the earth and ours point up here in the States... but your bikes should weigh less, and hit the bumps with less force since you are hangin' off the bottom of the earth... ... seriously, though...

I have worked at racetracks in the USA, Canada, Japan, Austrailia, Qatar, England, France, Italy, and Spain. It's not the black magic it's cracked up to be.

Sincerely,

Max McAllister
President
Traxxion Dynamics, Inc.

Yes the argument above does not stack up. The cold hard reality is that first world countries such as Italy and the States have a much much higher percentage of smooth roads and therefore such bikes dont find themselves so often on bumpy roads. If they spend much less time on bumpy roads then the riders are much less inclined to complain, FACT.
Here in NZ we have a much much higher perecentage of bumpy roads to continuously challenge the suspension and we are therefor infinitely more attentive to requiring more compliant settings.
Max has never been to NZ nor I suspect many of the Italian test riders ridden on our roads. I have been to the US and Italy several times and witnessed their roads across several parts of their respective countries.
It helps rather a lot to be in command of the facts.

[Robert Taylor]

Get Real :) OK

This thread was a request for "service recommendations"

A simple service checking if shock was performing to expectations, strip clean inspect, replace any worn parts and seals. reoil using vacuum bleeder.

A roadbike shock service would rarely include updates or changes unless they were requested





We all know some people who know some people... and if asked...
are those "latest updates and more privileged information" actually helping you ?
Yes and my exact point is that if you take it to a non accredited person he wont be aware of any important updates or safety precautions. We receive shocks all the time that have been ''serviced'' by people who say they can do it. To correct, there is a LOT of BS and incompetence out there, FACT.

[GSVR]

Yes and my exact point is that if you take it to a non accredited person he wont be aware of any important updates or safety precautions. We receive shocks all the time that have been ''serviced'' by people who say they can do it. To correct, there is a LOT of BS and incompetence out there, FACT.

You would expect an accredited vehicle inspectors would be highly skilled. Unfortunately I feel the whole process is designed to fleece the majority of road users of their hard earned cash in a process that is illegal to avoid!

I have my piece of paper so I'm ok.

[Robert Taylor]

You would expect an accredited vehicle inspectors would be highly skilled. Unfortunately I feel the whole process is designed to fleece the majority of road users of their hard earned cash in a process that is illegal to avoid!

I have my piece of paper so I'm ok.

Yes indeed there are good ones and bad ones. But its also important to not tar everyone with the same brush or apply the same level of cynicism to other industries. I have people that I trust and those I very definitely do not.

[_STAIN_]

Again you misunderstand and twist. SV650s are raced in only a few countries and I have never had a request from the States re these or sought info. We share on occurence basis.
Ohlins Sweden do not have update specs for RACING / TRACK DAYS for SV650, as they consider them only a commuter bike.
I was not calling Ohlins parasites, you need a better command of the English language.

But the most hated tinkerer of all from Wellington got a couple of SV's going quite well last year (Sam Love champion and lap records almost everywhere, and Glen Williams champion and biggest winning margin ever for F3) just imagine how much faster you would have had them going with your factory trained abilities, and access to the latest privileged information... It is widely noted by all that you still claim responsibility for Glen's victories but all you did was supply parts... the suspension tuning was done by Dukic Performance tinkering.

So it is those selling in the states under the ohilns umbrella ( appointed parasites ) but not ohlins ?

In the stakes of misinforming and twisting I am but floundering in your wake.

[Robert Taylor]

But the most hated tinkerer of all from Wellington got a couple of SV's going quite well last year (Sam Love champion and lap records almost everywhere, and Glen Williams champion and biggest winning margin ever for F3) just imagine how much faster you would have had them going with your factory trained abilities, and access to the latest privileged information... It is widely noted by all that you still claim responsibility for Glen's victories but all you did was supply parts... the suspension tuning was done by Dukic Performance tinkering.

So it is those selling in the states under the ohilns umbrella ( appointed parasites ) but not ohlins ?

In the stakes of misinforming and twisting I am but floundering in your wake.

Well the person you mention certainly wasnt the very same one who developed and first built TTX36 for those and developed a very sound footing that was 95% done prior? Yes its easy to grab glory when someone else has done all the hard graft beforehand.
I have no problem with people that are honest and straightforward.

[slowpoke]

Not really G. I believe that if the three other top level brands were promoted to the level that Ohlins has been in NZ, there's no reason why they couldn't be as strong. From what I've seen, the importers of other brands have run it as a sideline to their normal business, where as the good Doctor focuses on only suspension.

I for one would LOVE to see someone take the WP brand and try to build it to a level as what CKT is now at, offering the same level of trackside support. It would add one more factor to the outcome of the racing here. Be nice if the tyre importers put themselves forward also.

Good post Jimmy, and sums it up for most of us.

The number of professional suspension techs I've seen at the track can be counted on three fingers and two of those are the dastardly duo Robert and Dennis from CKT, with the other being Kerry from Dukic. As a racer why would I use anybody else if they are never going to be available during a meeting? What am I gonna do get on the phone on a Sunday arvo to try and get some set-up advice from some guy I've never met? Until this thread I didn't even know who the WP agent was fer chrissakes.

My new race bike has got some top o' the wozz WP suspension in it, which is beautifully made and looks fuggin' sexy as, but as soon as finances permit I'll be ditching it for Ohlins simply because I know the back-up service is so good.

(An email is on it's way Dr Bob)

As for the tyre thang, yep it amazes me too that the manufacturers don't have a bigger presence in the pits. If a tyre supplier gave similar service in the pits as Robert and Dennis do they'd have to set up crowd control at their truck.

Oh yeah, as for paying a premium for a lil' bit of Swedish magic I reckon the bullshit all comes out in the wash at the track. There's no where to hide if something doesn't work, and word soon gets around if something is a waste of money. From personal experience I've used many products which have failed to live up to their own promises and my expectations. By contrast I'm a happy repeat customer of CKT/Ohlins thanks to the quality of their product and service.

[GSVR]

Having wittnessed first hand the need for good suspension and the necessity to constantly modify and adjust it to get the last fractions of a second in laptimes heres some thoughts on the subject.

I believe it gets way to much emphasis put on it for the club rider who would get faster anyway by just learning to get closer to the limits of their machine. By all means if you can afford to get the best suspension do it. But having good fresh tyres is by far the thing that will inspire the most confidence. If your bikes geometry, engine is ok, and tyres are good and the suspension is "in the ballpark" then theres no reason except the rider that it can't be within a couple of seconds of the best riders on any given day.

No need to give examples as anyone thats hung around a race track with their eyes open would have seen this.

So then we have the arguement that good suspension will save you a fortune on tyres... my belief is tyrewear is more directly related to the horsepower of the machine. The correct grade of tyre for the intended use and conditions would be next.

Enjoy your racing people for once it becomes a money sucking burdon on your life is it really a sport worth pursueing or are you just riding in the wrong class.

BTW Glen and Sam are fast and have track records not becuase of a suspension tuner but because thay live and breath bike racing. The suspension tuners are like tyre or bike manufacturers and need to have examples of how they are effective in order to sell their product. Same could be said of riders too.

[vagrant]

Well Gary you dont understand the cost of business so well. There is a difference between making a living and making a killing. I fit into the former category, just. If I wasnt so helpful and free with information maybe Id turn a reasonable profit.

I for one am glad you are in the former. I have had fantastic service, advice, and information from Dr Rob. Thanks.

[Corse1]

What you little realise is these guys lean on me a lot for service info for the Ohlins brand. The difference being that there is never a hidden agenda with these guys, I trust them.
You misunderstand and twist. Yes we can service those brands but the WP specialist in NZ ( for example ) is Mark Patterson.

+1 On Mark Patterson. He has recently serviced my OEM Ohlins rear here in Rotorua and some of the first words out of his mouth were that he would contact Dr Bob for any updates etc.

Reasonably priced and great results!!

[lukemillar]

Wow - Think I opened a can of worms! I was only after service intervals for which I have an answer - Thanks!

However there are some interesting points, like this:


I believe it gets way to much emphasis put on it for the club rider who would get faster anyway by just learning to get closer to the limits of their machine. By all means if you can afford to get the best suspension do it. But having good fresh tyres is by far the thing that will inspire the most confidence. If your bikes geometry, engine is ok, and tyres are good and the suspension is "in the ballpark" then theres no reason except the rider that it can't be within a couple of seconds of the best riders on any given day.

This is something I think as well. I notice it a lot on the Triumph forum that people spend ridiculous amount of time and money chasing a few extra HP with kit parts, when they probably aren't even using the bike at 70% in stock trim. Same goes for suspension. I think a lot of those guys want to stick Ohlins on their bikes because it's an opportunity to get a bit more anodised gold on there! :laugh:

However, a club racer is always learning - different lines, ref points, passing moves etc. Why can't this extend into the realms of suspension as well? That doesn't necessarily mean run out and buy some top drawer suspension straightaway, but I do believe getting involved with a suspension tuner, discussing setup, feel and feedback etc. from the bike is a good thing for any experience level of club racer/trackdayer, rather than waiting until your setup is holding you back instead of your ability.

[Robert Taylor]

Wow - Think I opened a can of worms! I was only after service intervals for which I have an answer - Thanks!

However there are some interesting points, like this:



This is something I think as well. I notice it a lot on the Triumph forum that people spend ridiculous amount of time and money chasing a few extra HP with kit parts, when they probably aren't even using the bike at 70% in stock trim. Same goes for suspension. I think a lot of those guys want to stick Ohlins on their bikes because it's an opportunity to get a bit more anodised gold on there! :laugh:

However, a club racer is always learning - different lines, ref points, passing moves etc. Why can't this extend into the realms of suspension as well? That doesn't necessarily mean run out and buy some top drawer suspension straightaway, but I do believe getting involved with a suspension tuner, discussing setup, feel and feedback etc. from the bike is a good thing for any experience level of club racer/trackdayer, rather than waiting until your setup is holding you back instead of your ability.

Actually the reality is we sell rather a LOT of Ohlins shocks for many roadgoing Triumphs because the owners are very dissatisfied with poor performance, especially inability to absorb bumps. Last week a custom build set was completed for a Rocket 3 because the guy is over the jackhammer feel in the rear, an order taken today for Thunderbird for the very same reasons. An order yesterday for an old Triple, the ( second ) original shock isnt toast yet but the guy actually wants a smooth ride and less squat.
Some people undoubtedly do buy because of bling factor but Im in the box seat to know, most of our customers want better ride comfort, pitch balance control and tyre life. And at this point Im not even talking about racetracks.
On the racetrack its about best possible grip and tyre life, therefore also lap times. Most club level riders are also competitive and want to go faster.
40 odd bikes lining up for F2 at VMCC and most had aftermarket suspension fitted and other performance enhancements. Who said theres a recession? Probably will be once the Nationals roll around!
Ohlins is a victim of its own success because it has been getting stronger as its competitors appear to be getting weaker. That inevitably breeds tall poppy syndrome and for my part because I dont suffer fools and brazen BS or a poor command of the facts I also get targeted, but thats life.
Yes indeed good point that riders should embrace setup skills as much as possible, its an essential point of being a road racer, wherever you are on the globe. Mores the pity that there are some people within MNZ who very firmly have their heads in the sand.

[Robert Taylor]

Having wittnessed first hand the need for good suspension and the necessity to constantly modify and adjust it to get the last fractions of a second in laptimes heres some thoughts on the subject.

I believe it gets way to much emphasis put on it for the club rider who would get faster anyway by just learning to get closer to the limits of their machine. By all means if you can afford to get the best suspension do it. But having good fresh tyres is by far the thing that will inspire the most confidence. If your bikes geometry, engine is ok, and tyres are good and the suspension is "in the ballpark" then theres no reason except the rider that it can't be within a couple of seconds of the best riders on any given day.

No need to give examples as anyone thats hung around a race track with their eyes open would have seen this.

So then we have the arguement that good suspension will save you a fortune on tyres... my belief is tyrewear is more directly related to the horsepower of the machine. The correct grade of tyre for the intended use and conditions would be next.

Enjoy your racing people for once it becomes a money sucking burdon on your life is it really a sport worth pursueing or are you just riding in the wrong class.

BTW Glen and Sam are fast and have track records not becuase of a suspension tuner but because thay live and breath bike racing. The suspension tuners are like tyre or bike manufacturers and need to have examples of how they are effective in order to sell their product. Same could be said of riders too.

Gary even though I have certain variances on your comments your post is a good one that has tried to instil some balance.

[Robert Taylor]

Good post Jimmy, and sums it up for most of us.

The number of professional suspension techs I've seen at the track can be counted on three fingers and two of those are the dastardly duo Robert and Dennis from CKT, with the other being Kerry from Dukic. As a racer why would I use anybody else if they are never going to be available during a meeting? What am I gonna do get on the phone on a Sunday arvo to try and get some set-up advice from some guy I've never met? Until this thread I didn't even know who the WP agent was fer chrissakes.

My new race bike has got some top o' the wozz WP suspension in it, which is beautifully made and looks fuggin' sexy as, but as soon as finances permit I'll be ditching it for Ohlins simply because I know the back-up service is so good.

(An email is on it's way Dr Bob)

As for the tyre thang, yep it amazes me too that the manufacturers don't have a bigger presence in the pits. If a tyre supplier gave similar service in the pits as Robert and Dennis do they'd have to set up crowd control at their truck.

Oh yeah, as for paying a premium for a lil' bit of Swedish magic I reckon the bullshit all comes out in the wash at the track. There's no where to hide if something doesn't work, and word soon gets around if something is a waste of money. From personal experience I've used many products which have failed to live up to their own promises and my expectations. By contrast I'm a happy repeat customer of CKT/Ohlins thanks to the quality of their product and service.

I can relate to why you dont see manufacturers reps and tyre people in the pits every weekend. Because they are engaged in their out of work activities that may not neccessarily embrace motorcycles. We ourselves could be way nearly every weekend of the year but who would want to be, we already have precious little spare time.
But it is important that when you do attend meetings to give of your best. Frankly also the BS that has crept in is tiresome.

[lukemillar]

Actually the reality is we sell rather a LOT of Ohlins shocks for many roadgoing Triumphs because the owners are very dissatisfied with poor performance, especially inability to absorb bumps. Last week a custom build set was completed for a Rocket 3 because the guy is over the jackhammer feel in the rear, an order taken today for Thunderbird for the very same reasons. An order yesterday for an old Triple, the ( second ) original shock isnt toast yet but the guy actually wants a smooth ride and less squat..

Didn't mean to tarnish all Trumpet owners with the same brush! I was referring to the 675 US forum where there are one or two posters who are obsessed with all things gold or carbon fibre! It was said in jest :)

[Robert Taylor]

Didn't mean to tarnish all Trumpet owners with the same brush! I was referring to the 675 US forum where there are one or two posters who are obsessed with all things gold or carbon fibre! It was said in jest :)

No worries! Note that the 675 has a particularly nasty link ratio progressivity.

[Rcktfsh]

and the exspense of the mobile work shop

!

You mean that gaily painted pixie hutt, it's about time they upgraded to a proper coffee machine in it.

[Rcktfsh]

Back to the subject matter, I have Ohlins shocks on both of my bikes and I can attest to the fact that the CKT/RT fettled product is a big advancement on the out-of-the-box product.
Best of all is Roberts after sales service, he is quite happy to fine tune the product (usually at no further cost) until the customer is 100% happy with the result.
You might be able to buy 'the product' cheaply off the interweb, but that kind of service and follow up is worth it's weight in gold IMO.

You call those things bikes? One needs a pilot vehicle preceding it warning of wide loads following and the other appears to have been designed by a failed set designer from battlestar gallactica.

ps. wheres the levers?

[Shaun]

You mean that gaily painted pixie hutt, it's about time they upgraded to a proper coffee machine in it.





A ha, you weight till you see the new one then!!!!

[cs363]

You call those things bikes? One needs a pilot vehicle preceding it warning of wide loads following and the other appears to have been designed by a failed set designer from battlestar gallactica.

ps. wheres the levers?

At least mine are working, registered and WOF'd unlike your motley collection of half built wrecks. Has your limp wrist healed yet?
When are you getting that crossdressing Italian/Japanese thing with a name that sounds like a dubious sexual proclivity back on the road?

You expect free stuff now as well?

[Robert Taylor]

You call those things bikes? One needs a pilot vehicle preceding it warning of wide loads following and the other appears to have been designed by a failed set designer from battlestar gallactica.

ps. wheres the levers?

And they need a lighthouse on every corner to show them the way!

[cs363]

And they need a lighthouse on every corner to show them the way!

And you STFU too! :bleh:
Remember, we have a deal.....and you have six carbies to overhaul.....

Just been looking at the tags on this thread, wasn't aware you'd changed your name to reflect your Maori heritage 9explains why your father voted Labour).
Do we now address you as Bishop, or your worship or what?

[Robert Taylor]

And you STFU too! :bleh:
Remember, we have a deal.....and you have six carbies to overhaul.....

Just been looking at the tags on this thread, wasn't aware you'd changed your name to reflect your Maori heritage 9explains why your father voted Labour).
Do we now address you as Bishop, or your worship or what?

Strong political conviction comes from my mothers side, tough and stern people come from Northern England. Religion is mainstream protestant as opposed to the arm waving variety.
Strong protestant work ethic and totally averse to BS and people that blatantly use you
My father carried my disgust at his one voting indiscretion to the grave.
Sir will suffice nicely plus an improvement in your dress code wouldnt go amiss.

[Pussy]

You going to make the steps low enough on the new trailer for Rcktfsh? Unless someone lifts him up, I doubt he's even seen the inside of the present trailer.

[Tony.OK]

Just been looking at the tags on this thread, wasn't aware you'd changed your name to reflect your Maori heritage 9explains why your father voted Labour).
Do we now address you as Bishop, or your worship or what?

Wonder just how much susp we need to have purchased to get a gold "ring" ?

[Rcktfsh]

At least mine are working, registered and WOF'd unlike your motley collection of half built wrecks. Has your limp wrist healed yet?
When are you getting that crossdressing Italian/Japanese thing with a name that sounds like a dubious sexual proclivity back on the road?

You expect free stuff now as well?

Actually have two warrented/registered bikes in the garage including the bastard italian/japanese love child.

[Shaun]

You going to make the steps low enough on the new trailer for Rcktfsh? Unless someone lifts him up, I doubt he's even seen the inside of the present trailer.


Low enough for me, is low enough for any one

[Ivan]

If you looked at Ohlins gross profit per annum youd ask wha do they put so much effort in for so little return. 7%

Red runs his team ( Robbie Bugden, James Smith ) We ( CKT ) are responsible for doing internal setting changes to the suspension units that we supply to that team, invoiced to Suzuki NZ. Whilst Red is starting to look after some of our interests in the South Island we will still be looking after Robbies and James suspension when called upon.

My paying customers are by no means subsidising free assistance to others. Over the winter months we have done a lot of development work with the Blue Wing Honda racebikes and now with Strouds new K9. Neither BWH or SNZ are invoiced for our time, only any parts used. And we have helped a lot of people besides, who have asked.

We have service contracts for some of the distributor riders during the Nationals, it barely covers costs.

If then it is percieved that our product prices subsidise subsequent setup then our prices are much too low.

Ohlins instituting that policy is a first step in combating internet resellers who have no respect for appointed territories and the cost in infrastructure that each distributor has. There are to be further measures. It doesnt help that the US Ohlins distributor can purchase product in $US giving better insulation against currency fluctuation. It also dosent help that the $NZ is currently so strong, in the end event its no good for exporters and NZ business, the 2 biggest contributors to the welfare of our country. Its time more of us put the overall wellbeing of the country above self interest., and I make no aplogy for saying that.


Have to agree with this Robert has helped alot this season on my bikes and hasnt charged me andim not a front runner but when I want suspension work done it goes toRobert no one else as I am one for loyalty with someone who helps you return the favour